 So, hello, my name is Dr. Michael David Jackson, and I'm a researcher at Victoria University based down here in Wellington, and today I'm joined by Dr. Simon Thornelly. Simon's a senior lecturer in epidemiology and public health at the University of Auckland, so good morning, Dr. Thornelly. Good morning, Michael. Let's get straight into this, Simon. Can you explain why you formed a group and developed COVID plan B? Well, we think the lockdown is an overreaction. It doesn't match the threat posed by the virus. And we're worried that the government and the government's advisors have been talking about prolonged lockdown, waiting for a vaccine and trying to eliminate the virus. And we think this is not realistic. And instead, we've proposed a plan to protect people who are most at risk from the virus and to get back to work and to get back to school. So, Simon, the interesting point you made there. You mentioned almost a stratified risk group that some older people may be more susceptible to this. Can you expand on that? Are we saying that the risk form from COVID is different for different people, for example? Yes. Well, a statistician explained it, saying that the risk of dying of COVID-19 is about the same as your annual risk of dying in that year anyway. It's like squeezing your risk of a year's worth of mortality into two weeks. So that means that it's obviously much higher for older people. And we certainly have seen the experience overseas and in New Zealand is that this is a major problem for rest homes. And we certainly don't want to see the virus run rampant in hospital or overwhelm the hospital that's been seen in some countries. So, I guess one of the really important questions is where do we go from here? What is plan B and where do we go as Kiwis as a nation? Where do we go over the next three, four weeks, a couple of months? Well, there's a real risk with lockdown of creating mass unemployment. We've seen that happening in Spain with figures doubling every week. So our belief is that we can go back to work, that we can send our children back to school, and that we protect people who are most at risk of the virus. So we take special precautions around the hospital and rest homes, making sure that the virus doesn't spread. Dr Simon Thornelly, senior lecturer of epidemiology and public health at Auckland University. Thank you very much. Thank you, Michael.