 Wow! Good morning! I have to say this, you know, this field with packed people is quite a sight. So we guys, you know, we do have an engaging audience and we hopefully try to make this conversation interesting for everyone, yeah. Okay, you know, as we all are going to talk about commerce, media, okay, many people are representing brands from the audience. Okay, awesome. Okay, awesome. And the brands who are in the room, have they leveraged commerce media as a media platform? Okay, awesome. Okay, awesome. Okay, that's good to know. Okay, so we'll start the conversation by setting some context out here and throwing some numbers, talk about how the commerce media ecosystem is playing out and then probably throw this out, you know, to our great panel members and make the conversation more interesting there, yeah. So talking about some numbers out here, you know, if you look at online shoppers in the country, we're basically saying that, look, 150 million online shoppers in 2020 are likely to grow to become about 300 million plus by 2025. You know, when we look at online shoppers as a percentage of population out there, metros, you know, from a penetration of about 55% in 2020, is likely to grow to 76%. Taiwan cities are moving from a penetration of 38% to 60%. And tier two cities, when it comes to online shopping, are going to grow from 9% to 50% by 2025. So there is an explosive growth happening out there. Almost 88% of the new added shoppers will come from tier two. You know, so that's like a big growing market out there. You know, while this is one part of the story, how, you know, it is also very interesting to see how consumers are adopting online shopping. So in terms of what kind of stuff they are buying, what are the product categories they're doing, that I believe is a far interesting story than just the growth of numbers out there. You know, a recent study at Amazon pointed out that there is a gradual increase in the number of categories purchased per consumer, and that is ranking at say about 70-0%. And the number of orders placed per month by the consumer is growing at about 26%. So people are now, you know, going and buying a lot of variety of products, and they're also buying it very frequently. When we look at the GMB picks, makes up there, it is rapidly shifting from electronics to grocery to fashion, and an estimated 40 billion online GMB in 2020 is likely to rise to about 140 billion in 2025. So these are big numbers out there. Having said that, even at 2025, this would still mean 10% of the overall retail business. So we are in for a fairly long journey when it comes to adoption of online commerce. Grocery, fashion, beauty products are the top three product categories which consumers are today buying. You know, when you talk about online commerce, you know, there is also another keyword which just pops up, searches. You know, today consumers are practically relying on online platforms to do product research. So when you talk about online shoppers, you know, before they buy, almost 60% of these people are constantly trying to do some online research before they end up deciding what they want to buy. And when you look at offline buyers, 50% of offline buyers are doing some form of online research. You know, from generic searches to brand searches, consumers now have the power to go ahead and compare features, product features, price features. So there is a lot happening when it comes to identifying which products they want to buy. Now in all of this, what is happening is that as consumers are going ahead and spending more and more time, commerce platforms have become media platforms. Okay, so they are at a point where not just selling to consumers but selling to brands is becoming a very interesting area for them. And brands on the other hand are looking at such platforms to say that, how do we leverage a commerce platform as a media platform? You know, so that's really where we are. It's still very early days. The relationship between brands and commerce platforms is still very new. And I believe that both are pushing each other to kind of see, you know, how they are able to add value on both sides. So as we talk about it, you know, today we have a very interesting mix of people out here. Varda and Angkor, they both represent marketplaces. You know, so they are always trying to find ways to convince brands to spend money on their platform. Okay, Suyash is on the brand side and the kind of category he represents. He will have some unique perspectives on, from his perspective, how is he leveraging marketplaces to grow the business. Sonali is on the brand side from an agency when she's constantly looking at saying that, if a brand is spending money on media, how do they go about integrating commerce media as a part of the overall brand strategy? How is it that a brand can see that and how should they really go about leveraging that? So we have this mix of people today. Let me kickstart the discussion right away and ask Varda a point. Varda, from your point of view, what kind of problems are you solving for brands? Okay, and on the other side, what are the kind of problems or what are the kind of asks which the brand demands from big basket? Okay, where you really feel stretched to meet those goals. Sure. You know, purely as a media platform. Yeah, sure. So I'll probably cut to the chase. I think all of us live through the pandemic. We already know e-commerce is now sort of a mainstream, you know, part of most business plans from a brand's perspective. I think now we're into a very large extent. I think capturing the manifest demand, which is essentially search, right? Search, passwords, equivalent, whether it be an Amazon platform, I think to a very large extent that's a play out still. I think the struggle that we are having with brands is they say, hey, you know, if someone's buying media masters at least, right? What else is that person going to buy? Has that person bought just before is likely to buy immediately thereafter? What's the context, right? In which that person is operating? For example, if that person is from Delhi, right? And we have the issues with AQ variant in Delhi, right? What's the most likely nudge, right? That's going to give me the best balance between preach and reverse, right? Ultimately, everyone wants some sort of efficiency. They say, hey, you know, find, you know, someone's buying that media masterizer. You know, I can go and sort of search keywords on them, capture the demand, right? But what else is like a pointy and sketch of that person, right? That we can sort of capture, right? The other point is, I think increasingly now brands are saying, hey, you know, you're telling us a small sliver of what the person is buying on our platform. Help me fill up a photograph, right? Sort of like, you know, the sketch that you do at a police station, right? Who's this person? What else is that person likely to buy? What variance is that person spending time on? For instance, I think one of the things that we sort of thinking through is, we try and run some of these ABA experiments to see. For example, all other things being equal. If I showed a customer, let's say an Hollywood space on a loyal ad, let's say showing that customer, let's say 705 star reviews. Let's say showing that customer, fastest moving item and brand on, right? This is saying most popular charts. This is saying new launch. This is saying highly recommended, right? You know, it isn't quite, even in 8 meters, it's probably an A to Z sort of test, right? How is that person likely to react? And how many such cohorts can I find for each product? So, you know, then you start sort of thinking through like a matrix, and you sort of then, I think, have to use a little bit of psychology and judgment in addition to data, right? Just to sort of wind up, I think the way I sort of think about it, think of this fact, I think the lifting in terms of using data, right, and segments, right, is done. I think the challenge is now going to be in an extremely cluttered world, right? How do I improve cognition towards my product? And convert that cognition into action, right? All other things being equal. If I'm going to show the customer 20 items or 30 items, right? How do I make my item stand out from a UX perspective? UX is just the two dimensions, right? Can I only context to make that UX more effective? And can I do something else to make the CDA far more powerful, right? Rather than just say, hey, you know, if I, for example, and I'm sure, you know, this is not a revolution. Maybe then you use things like 30 minutes left for the sale or whatever. You have a found out timer equal and just like what we have. Basically any needless to say, you know, the sale through inputs. But there's so much to what you can do on that because it will start affecting the brand, right? You know, it will start reflecting like it's a desperate sort of trying to sell through brand, right? Where do you draw some of these lines? To me, I think the future is going to be an intersection of psychology and technology. Technology part has been played out to a very large extent. I think it's going to be differentiating yourself from a tracker using a bit of human judgment and technology that's going to be the future. I get the point that, you know, as a brand, when I look at a platform like BigBasket, I see data rich and the brand sees you very data rich and that kind of encourages the brand to go ahead and ask you and demand certain kind of quotes from you, right? And obviously, you know, that's always the case that you're in a super store of consumer segments and you have your massive wish list in front of you. Simply put, you know, as they are having that conversation with you, do they see you as a sales channel or as a marketing channel? See, I think the interesting piece is it's like, you know, Maruti is famous. People want to see this. There's just no way you're going to be able to walk away from it, right? I think if you just hand out the list, like to sort of draw this analogy, right? I think the Makar market itself is sort of... So, do you tell them that I'm a sales channel and I'm not a marketing channel? No, we tell them, you know, we tell them we are a sales channel. By the way, we are also impacting your marketing metrics. You know, we've had conversations where we say, you know, you use search ads, for example, right? And we are in the considerable space. The great thing about constituents is they're bought persistent, right? And you go and talk to a surf and say, you know, if I were to show an exposure to Deepak of a surf app, every time he, you know, he searches for detergent, his mean time between purchases shrinks from three months to ten hours. And that's something that brands love, right? Or maybe... Frequency. Yeah, frequency. Or I can go and say, you know, if I were to show Deepak a large impact of surf, right? The mean time to upgrade from a 500 grams to 280, constant. Or if I were to, for example, you know, take a little more creatively and show a comfort app, thoughtfully, not in the search script, in the search script, elsewhere, and say, you know, I'm able to now convince 10% of surf users, surf buyers, to also look at comfort as a best. Because comfort otherwise is not, for example, a brand that people are willing to search for, right? Family conditioner is not a utilitarian sort of thing. It's a nice to have. It's like... So I think these are some pieces that we sort of trying to work with. I think four or five matrices that I can think of from a brand manager's perspective, that we can now start to buy it. And some of that is already being done. It's new to brand, right? Customer who's never bought this brand before. The mean time that he purchases, right? The ability to upgrade and ability to cross, right? How this plays out for each brand? You'll always see, for example, let's say a diaper's brand. There's nothing called an upgrade, right? It's just essentially buying a larger brand, right? You know, you started with five packs. Now 10, can you buy a 100? Right? And the diaper is 100, you probably stay put for the next one year, right? Different brands have these different sort of notions about what they want to achieve out of that. He's starting to give that. I think the tough part is to show demonstrable input. Like, sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't happen, because in regular metal, our arms are also changing through. I think these are a bunch of things that we're at least trying to sort of push back on the brand. That's interesting. For me, the takeaway here is that we should be talking and basically saying, how do I improve average auto value? How do I go ahead and bring down or improve frequency? These are a couple of key matrix from a brand perspective, and how do I possibly look at saying that there is a cross-sell opportunity or there is an upsell opportunity? So in many ways, I'm outsourcing some CRM activities to you, as a brand. Okay, so let me shift the conversation. I want to follow it up with another perspective later in the chat while it's micro-segmentation and all these are there. Scale management is also an aspiration which very quickly the brand would shift. But let me just reserve that for now. When we are talking about your managing Amazon DSP, what you're doing is telling the brand that we have some rich insights on our platform. You're spending time on our platform. You're doing search ads. You're doing discovery ads. You're placing ads by people are browsing out there. Now also come and spend money with me because I have an extended media ecosystem. So leveraging my DSP, I can sort some marketing problems for you. Okay, when you make that pitch out to the brand and you take that, what challenges do you face? So I think how easy it is for you to sell off Amazon. I don't think it's easy at all because, see, let's take a step back there. So there are largely two buckets in which the problem statements of any market are false. One is conversion. The second is increasing the pool for awareness in the top of the funding metrics. I think as far as the second pool is concerned, the conversion pool is concerned. Any commerce platform including Amazon have established very clear metrics on enabling discovery, like Varda mentioned, the demand is already getting catered to. Also, we are catering to discovery. So for example, there is a generic search happening. How is that my brand can show up is something that we've already answered, something that there are set matrices that every brand looks at. And then there is an understanding on the performance of the campaign. Now when you go into the same group and talk to not the e-commerce manager, the media manager or the media owner, that now you've got the conversion for me, but now you look at me for your top of the funnel. I think the biggest challenge is the way they look at us. So for any marketer or any media buyer, the way they look at Amazon or any commerce platform for that matter is conversion. So when you are talking about top of the funnel as well, which is enabling a lot of awareness driven activities through the supply that we have on our DSP and layering it with first party signals from our audiences, which is across our retail, Fire TV, IMTV. The conversion still boils down to, you know, okay, you do run a video campaign for me, but what is the reverse or what is that you're going to get? So I think that is the single biggest pain point right now as to how to be, despite having a seat on the table, how do we differentiate these two compositions is a big challenge there now, which I try to address. Okay, so you want to talk anything about like you saw something for a brand, you want to, is something which you can use as an example and share, like just from a problem solving perspective. Absolutely, so I think we did one campaign for Joaquin. It was a very long campaign which was spread across, you know, four phases. The interesting part is for a brand like Joaquin, which is very generic in category, you know, it's very hard for them to look at a seller platform to look as a media platform or an awareness platform, but I think the team out there, what they saw was our strength on the audiences. So our understanding of the audiences, what is the kind of searches that are happening on the platform, using that data to run top of the funnel campaign, you know, they've been able to derive a lot of, you know, upper funnel excitement, which is then boiled down into the bottom funnel where they have seen an increase in transactions as well because at the end of the day, if they are seeing something which is closer to their affinity, the chances of them coming back on the platform and transacting is high. Will it be as good as what they would have done directly for a performance marketing? Probably yes or probably no, but the fact of the matter is that at some point in time you've influenced that decision and that is exactly what, you know, Amazon DSP is trying to do. Okay, great. Suish. Suish represents VIP and, you know, he will have a point, you know, POV from a brand perspective. Now the kind of category which you represent and from your category perspective when you decode commerce platforms as media platforms, how you decode it and what challenges do you really expect those platforms to solve for your business? Okay, honestly, start with the teaching and I'm not able to do everyone because that's been the trend. But yeah, if you ask me as a brand, these solutions are primarily coming in from, say, Vardha or from Hongkong's end. What we are trying to do, while we are trying to dissociate the sales and the marketing challenge that they have the whole time talking of what should be done to get what. Everybody at the brand doesn't look kidnaped. So at the end of the day, we all look out for what is the ROAS for us and we have to do these small experiments to understand how commerce media is. But for us, as a luggage brand, commerce media has a different, I can say, it has a different purpose altogether. For me, you see, my luggage brands are very touch and feel and very neat-paced. If you're traveling, you don't have something to carry your first go-to is go to a luggage store and try to get whatever your size requirement is. So for me, if there is an airport opening in, say, in Satara, there is an airport opening in Satara, I cannot go there the next day and say, okay, fine, the airport has opened, I need to open a store and it's suddenly become a commercial airport. My only way of penetration, a quick penetration in that market is going to be commerce media because I'll be increasing my media to make people visible and understand this is the brand. They have set up a credibility in the form of a shopping destination which we as brands want to leverage and that's why we use the marketing side of it. While the sales side of it, we get a lot of insights from what is a consumer trying to search for and why is he buying. For example, the luggage industry post pandemic from start of 2022 has doubled on Amazon. So we also understand that, okay, fine, the consumer is buying online, the whole mind shift from, I wanna touch, I wanna feel, to directly, okay, I trust this brand, I trust Amazon as a point of sale and I wanna buy this is what we want to leverage it. Also gives us insight on, say, how many brands out there are trying to buy for the space that we think we are king of. There are, we used to track around three to four brands. Sadly, New Zealand doesn't consider our category big enough to do their service. But yeah, so we have to depend on like, quarter-wise reports to understand how we are placed on market share. But Amazon gives a different perspective that there are challenger brands. There are significantly new age brands which are targeting different co-ops and inching in that space, which we think that we have, there's no, we don't have any competition. So commerce media gives us a lot of perspective on how we shape up the business. In a conversation very recently, we were speaking to the whole marketing team and trying to understand, okay, tell me, my competitor brand A is basically getting so many SKUs online and increasing them. Why are we not doing it? So it also gives us perspective of what we should produce next. Why I think, why a 2,500 rupee cabin bag from say an ex-brand being sold highest, why are we able to capture that space? Are we gonna gun for a 2,400 rupee cabin bag which will shift the balance to us? So those are the questions that we get answers from commerce media and I think that's the whole relevance that we're building with them and that's our saliency with those platforms. So from what you were saying, it's like picking up the insights, you're also able to do product innovation or you're able to go back to your management teams and say that this and why can't we launch an USKU at this particular price point? Because you're able to see on the marketplace what is moving, what is not moving, right? Okay, just from in your organization when we talk about tackling this, is it a sales-led marketing program or it's a marketing-led program? So the other part is, just give us an insight view, like for example, for a brand, they would have a separate sales organization and a marketing organization. Do they collaborate? Or the sales team says that this and commerce is something which I would handle and the marketing team is supposed to handle top of the funnel KBS. See, we are a legacy brand. We have certain build structures but also pandemic has made us realize that we have to be fluid across the corners. There are no set boundaries. We have to do each other's work to create that impact in the market. VIP, most of you might think the first thing that I say VIP, everything, all that comes to your mind is attention. That is the imagery we have to change. And that's what the endeavor to creating cross-function teams. In the last six months, we have eight cross-function teams to address such problems. And when it comes to commerce media, we similarly have an e-commerce-specific sales channel and a marketing team working towards getting the best out of the business. We subscribe to intelligence tools which we share. We subscribe to a lot of inciting that surveys are done by marketing which reflect on e-commerce. And previously it was all sales driven. It was predominantly we were looking at sales because there's a huge market out there. But recently we have tried to understand that as our brands are also being segmented into different commerce, the commerce media gives us certain signals which only marketing can leverage. So now I would say it's 65% e-commerce initiative and a 35% marketing initiative. But soon we will see a 50-50% partnership happening as our industry continues to grow on these platforms. Interesting because when we talk to offline men I connect with a few other brands, they have separate e-commerce verticals. They have separate marketing teams. The e-commerce vertical would say that I will be taking care of all activities which are self-search driven because I can measure ROAS, I can measure sales. And the marketing team would go ahead and say that on the same platform we are owners of impact. So they have some organization and built it like that. So I think it's the stage of the organization, the kind of talent which is available inside the organization which is driving some of these. I have to answer something. I won't take more than a minute. The thing is that you have to understand we are basically a brick and mortar chain. Most of our channels are offline sales but with advent of e-commerce media we have to look more online. We are creating our D2C channels and the organization has to change for an omnicommerce kind of outlook. And I think e-commerce media is the biggest contributor or it's the catalyst that we found out. So that we change our industry structure or change our company structure which is very important for omnicommerce because if everybody is going to cart their food there will be no united food. So that's what has been the catalyst and thanks to Amazon and Fitcats of the world that they have made this possible. So we have, as an organization, we have this omnicommerce outlook where we leverage our 700 stores out there and also leverage the signals that are online and create that seamless integration and who's buying what and from what. So thanks to these guys. Great. I do have some follow-up questions on integration between two areas but probably that's a conversation for another day. Moving on, I'll move to Avinash out here. So Avinash represents Thomas Coke and they are not a seller on an marketplace platform. So from Avinash's perspective what I could decode is that you're not a seller, you're not measuring to us. So how do you look at a commerce media as a platform from a marketing perspective? What I would say will probably be true for me but not for many travel brands because if we are again similar to VIP or legacy brand being around in the country for about 100 plus years, primarily seen as a retail operator not very long ago, 5-6 years ago we got 100% of the resources left even via phone without stores that we have across the country that was also because we are primarily focusing on international travel and we have a very high exchange. Average transaction value is averages as 2.5 lakh rupees and it goes up to even 50 lakh rupees per transaction which means there is a lot of interaction, there is a lot of time between when people start thinking about it and acquire or start talking to someone so that it can be between anywhere from 15 days which is the minimum that people take from their thinking and wiring to booking. It sometimes even goes as 4-6 months like for example for next May when people are traveling to Europe April, May, June they started booking or wiring now. We've already done 20% of the business 2023 in December. So because of all these reasons we were primarily a retail operator this brand and premium at that and because of the higher ticket sales but because of the advent of digital and commerce we started building our e-commerce business about 5-6 years ago that is when we looked at Amazon's first concept of the world where that according to us was the fastest way to get to a relevant online purchase audience and also because of the kind of data types and segmentation where there is a huge overlap between my audience and they will be able to give us which is a frequent traveler that we purchase and even mode of purchase and what's the value of their looking at. So we primarily looked at and this could probably be in contrast to what I'm saying or probably we are a dream client for that because our intent was not to look at trying to sell but acquire new set of consumers which are primarily online buyers and that's also our our immediate intent was can I acquire new audience reach an awareness but to an online friendly or online primary and online that's how we looked at it and we continued through that we are not a very high or heavy or frequent advertiser but we don't add specific intervals especially during our peak season times. That's interesting because we see even non seller brands like whether it is travel brands we see card brands who would indulge on these platforms and try to either source leads or be available at the point of purchase. So it's very interesting how some of them are utilizing it just to add to that the way we are also looking because we are not sellers on this platform I don't want to reveal the names but we are also powering some of the categories of a large e-commerce brand which actually sells baggler packages to me they are actually powered by us so in the back end customer thinks that they are right from expand but it's essentially they would probably realize it when they are on the ground on the holiday it is essentially e-commerce is actually delivering the experience but it is sold so that's how most e-commerce players are also migrating and building their travel vertical Interesting diverse perspectives we continue in that moment when you are with the agency and trying to stitch up media across platforms including e-commerce how do you take that story out Thank you I am out of breath So I start from saying that and I will qualify it as well so I start from saying that market places are a fairly recent entry into the media mix So and I will qualify that as lower funnel contributors they have always played a very very important role and that is how the business understands and naturally takes them but as upper funnel and when you go through the funnel that is a fairly recent consideration that's it I would again like to take a slightly contrary stance to what we have been talking about so far it was I think audiences are no longer linear right and audience journeys are no longer linear platform thinking is something of the past and I am going to touch back on the theme of this conference to say past, present and future right so past was all about platform oriented thinking when media was very very linear today is a lot more dynamic today is a lot more audience focused and tomorrow is going to be even more so powered by a lot more data and unification of that journey and I mean while we are on that track we are at least we are still somewhere away from creating something that is completely integrated and omni channel omni commerce all of that is on the way it's not there yet so to say and I think I want to from here take a step into seeing audience audience thinking now audience journeys are not linear at all right so people are jumping between platforms people are jumping between offline and online commerce and it is entirely up to agencies and I would say that is where we come in and I heard you once people lot about you know starting to establish ourselves as marketing platforms rather than sales platforms brands are starting to ask for not a single view and I guess both of you would also agree that the perspective that is being provided by market places individually or by platforms individually is actually quite siloed but what a brand means is actually to be able to duplicate and understand where and we spoke and we touched upon attribution and saying how do we actually bring everything together to say what is working for a brand and that comes back to audiences to say how are we tracking those journeys really effectively and that's where one PD so as and in the past we've been very good with using 3PD so everybody understands third party data over the last few years and we've also become really good with second party data today what we are understanding is how to deploy not just first party data because first party data is the richest source of the most accurate insights and you spoke about how insights are going to really power the next generation right today what this is about is and again the PD we spoke about a cookie less future as well so all of it is coming together in a way and what is right now important is being able to create value optimization taking one PD and then being able to deploy it at scale using all our second party and third party data and creating a unified view of our consumers and being able to scale right now that is what brands are today looking for marketplaces are not marketing right now and no single platform is committing a unified which is where clean rooms come in and that is something that we are actually focusing very hard on because what that enables us to do is anonymizing staying relevant and compliant protecting our consumers interests as well and then being able to generate insights which can then power a lot more targeting appropriately at scale right and this is also and this is exactly what marketers are looking for which is return on investment which actually makes sense for them and that is the only way tomorrow only there is what gardens are going away right and everybody is going to protect their leader and to my mind the only opportunity that we have to unify that journey because otherwise it's just going to be a pattern for who is able to convince and it's not in the of any client and you talked about testing but that also is right now in a very limited space so so once we are able to and that is the journey that we are right now on to say how do we integrate all the various sources of data and comply with norms and then be able to create the best and the highest return on investment for our clients and then that would further by address so we started and last year the theme of the same conference was a lot more about how do we personalize creators at scale from there we moved on further towards saying addressable media which is another next layer and that was what now we touched upon when we talked about the fine cast conference which happened just last week which is about saying that powers it next at scale and this times talk about saying how do we now start deploying voice to be able to amplify to the next level and once you have and again it comes back to understanding your audience well so that you're able to then personalize at scale and be able to dive in and then of course measuring it closing the loop with saying what is working what is not working because as we go into and everybody knows that the next few years are going to be the return on investment it's going to be the single biggest driver for clients right so measurement is going to start playing even a more important role and then to say what is not working for you is actually going to start falling off but then for that you have to know what is working basically look at the ecosystem yes your spot on there that yes you know consider any of the media platforms on big basket any of them you know by itself in the ecosystem they have certain insights and those are those ball gardens which are then leveraged by various players out there in the changing world in a rapidly changing world there will be a reorganization of the whole stack where somewhere you are basically saying is there any alternate intelligence which is available and then how that alternate intelligence can at least provide meaningful insights and segmentation and with an ability to really activate consumers messaging whether it is to do with growth platforms or whether it is to do new users or whether it is to do with retention marketing so if I am a marketer who will probably look at it from holistically I would say that listen you know what I get the USP's of each of these universes now how do I really stitch it up and how can technology really need to stitch it up across all boxes and I think for market places okay you heard this point you know and you can possibly give me a diplomatic answer to it also I think would you be open to allow brands to say that listen here is a pipe you can put your segmented audience here because as a media player Facebook says that okay fine go ahead and deploy it Google says you can do it so why is market place shine of its own I think obviously there is a little bit of conflict from a trade perspective right I think you know obviously this is a big profit of the driver for most market places I don't have to tell you because I think over a period of time we realize that this first quality data is not just useful to the brand is also useful to the market place to make their own private labels I'm sure private labels conflict with you know brand right and just sort of calling out the event in the room and the more important pieces if actual comes to me and says hey you know tell me if like say 50% of all surf buyers could potentially be upgraded to comfort right and into which incidentally as a family condition comes and says hey you know I would like to reach out of customers right and I'm willing to double my bid what should be I don't have an answer I'm just saying the pools and pressures right I think it's very important to understand that the market place is trying to improve upon their share of wallet of you as a customer that often is a conflict with what the brand wants to sell the brand thinks everything that goes to the customer ought to be from HUL the customer may say hey you know show me the best fabric conditioner right why trying to push comfort on me right I think it will be sort of quite found an answer on that I think that's why I said maybe right things like bundling dynamic creators you know pricing on the fly could provide some answers right I think the way I sort of think about it is I think this is very analogous of course very simple metaphor it's very analogous to what happened in car music system when you all go up in a world where air conditioning are almost considered three right then they say no no what the client right you have to know what the temperature is now you say AQ right and you have an air purifier within the car that adjust itself to the AQ right and then you pipe all kinds of information including temperature, humidity you know distance travel, distance on top of it now I mean I would have never said imagine that you have a line gauge of pressure as you drive right I don't know if it's useful but I think car because of figure out the way to convince that you have to pay another 10000 rupees for an extraordinary privilege of you getting to know your tire pressure from while driving right I think that's happened over a period of time hopefully it will happen one point to add to what we are talking about you know the tire pressure I saw you say that no I think so now you made some really strong points it actually is a good conversation to understand what exactly a marketer thinks and then it funnels down from me as it was to answer a question like a sales pitch you can upload data and to what deeper mention first party data can be used on some platforms like underground which basically ties down the whole journey that you are nurturing because you know I guess some telepathy between you and the product team there in the US but without that we understand there is very good right there is no way that you I think the industry will pick that up as well and I am sure you know this will become a norm where you can use both our data and trans first party data to drive that seamless that's a very positive message it will inspire for that right okay so I think with that we will call it a wrap