 Look here, I'm wrestling. Tell me a truth regarding love now. Why do people want to tap the real truth about Ruth's theater? You know, assistant people are mixed up. Why do people want to tap the real truth about Ruth's theater? Because God doesn't ask me a question, I'll go right in. Good afternoon, and welcome to week three of Ten Weeks in Jamaica, theater conversations from Jamaica to the world. I am Akiba Abaka, and I'm one of the co-founders and co-artistic director of Akiba Abaka Arts. We are an international theater production company that creates plays, concerts, and talks, as well as processes for making plays, concerts, and talks for the world stage. This series is presented in partnership with Raw Management Agency, an esteemed talent agency representing artists and groups across all genres of film, theater, television, voiceover, branding, and endorsements. We're very grateful to work in collaboration with Ms. Nadine Rollins, Raw Management's Managing Director, and co-curator of Ten Weeks in Jamaica. Ten Weeks in Jamaica, theater conversations from Jamaica to the world, is a talk series very unique in its structure because it shares the behind-the-scenes stories of Jamaica's theater community with the global theater community, as well as the Jamaican and Caribbean communities in the diaspora. Each week, Jamaica's leading theater pioneers and practitioners narrate their histories and memories of the Jamaican stage, as well as offer their visions for the future development of theater in Jamaica in this 21st century. The series is made possible by our sponsors and publisher, HowlRound.com, a free and open platform for theater makers worldwide that amplifies progressive disruptive ideas about the art form of theater and facilitates connections between diverse theater practitioners. Ten Weeks in Jamaica is also sponsored by the Martin E. Segal Theater Center at the City University of New York in Manhattan. The Segal Center is a home to theater artists, scholars, students, performers, arts managers, and local and international performance communities. We are one is the motto of the Jamaican people and Jamaica's theater legacy dates back to the 15th century or 1400s and represents a diverse collection of stories about the people and cultures that have lived on the island for over 400 years. We started the conversations on November 1st talking about the iconic Jamaica's iconic Ward Theater with special guests Oliver Samuels, Brian Heap, and Anola Williams, producer of Kingston on the Edge Arts Festival. Last week's conversation was also dedicated to a Jamaican icon, an iconic theater, a little theater movement and a pantomime and a legendary Miss Louise Bennett. In this conversation we were joined by Anya Gludon as well as Ms. St. Ellington and Dr. Deborah Hickling Gordon. For today's conversation we venture down the road of the highly popular commercially dominant genre of Jamaican roots theater. Now Wycliffe Bennett and Hazel Bennett. I'm going to hold up this amazing book that every human should have in their library and their collection so just check it out. Make sure you check it out. Wycliffe Bennett and Hazel Bennett, authors of the book The Jamaican Theater, highlights of the performing arts in the 20th century, compares roots theater to the pre-dramatic ceremonies of ancient Greece by stating some of these ceremonies also provided opportunity for considerable bi-play and mockery between participants and spectators. Probably the most noteworthy characteristic of the Aristocanic comedies which survive is their commentary on contemporary society, politics, literature and the Peloponnesian war which was raging at the time. These were the times when in addition to fantasy farcical situations where typical and considerable emphasis was placed on the pleasures of eating, drinking, sex, wealth and leisure coupled with the comic elements were some of the most beautiful lyrics and some of the most obscene passages in Greek literature. These flames and their reception are not far removed from what is experienced today by those who attend the Jamaican roots or comedic play. Now last week we heard from Ms. Fay Ellington. She called out the names of some of the pioneers of Jamaican roots theater, Ed Bim Lewis, Harold Holness, Ralph Holness, the producer who is credited with naming the genre roots theater, and playwright Paul Beale, author of over 50 roots plays among them the classic Andaminous and Ovia Weddin. I remember those two plays. Today we are joined by an esteemed panel of three of Jamaica's most popular thespians and stalwarts of the roots theater stage. Our first guest is Mr. Valier Muffy Johnson. He started his career in theater as a student at St. Andrew Technical High School when he gained a role in the Jamaican hit classic movie The Heart of They Come. You may remember him. He's the guy pushing the push cart next to Jimmy Cliff. He launched his commercial theater career in productions by Ed Wallace Productions, the pantomime, the Jamaican pantomime, the National Theater Trust, Basil Dawkins Production and Center Stage Theater to critical acclaim in productions such as cantaloupe, trash, room for rent, stepfather, toy boy, Pinocchio, children children, breadfruit kingdom, and strength of a woman among any others. He's also been a TV star with regular appearances on programs such as Oliver at Large, Claffey and Sarge in Charge and the very, very popular legendary lime tree lane. Gathering nicknames from each program as he goes. The nickname has stuck with him throughout his career is Claffey. Well, a lot of us kind of remember him as Muffy from that scene. Give generously. Welcome, Bolier. Hi, how are you doing? Doing very well. Like to introduce our next guest, Miss Maylin Lowe. Miss Lowe was born in Kingston, Jamaica and began ballet at age four years old and trained for over 12 years with the Norma Spence and Roe Ballet Company. She transitioned into musical theater as a teenager in productions such as Cats and Aladin with the Jamaica Musical Theater Company and the Little People Company. She studied acting and completed the summer program at AADA in New York and then went on to Emerson College in Boston Mass. So she is an Emersonian like many of the producers of this series and she made where she majored in acting. On her return home, she landed a role as Tanya Blackburn in Jamaica's longest-running soap opera, Royal Palm Estate, which she played for over 10 years. She has worked with all major producers in her industry such as Father Ho Long and Friends, Oliver Samuels, Jambiz Theater, Daily Harris Productions, Shibata and Stages Productions and Basil Dawkins Productions, just to name a few. In 2010, Miss Lowe won Best Actress at the ITI Actor Boy Awards in Jamaica for her role as Annie Palmer in the White Witch of Rolls Hall. Her latest role was with Basil Dawkins, Pressure Drop at the Little Little Theater. Welcome, Maylin. Hello. So nice to be here. Thank you. Nice to have you. Hello, Emersonian. Our next guest is Keith Shibata Ramsey, a Jamaican actor and comedian best known for his appearances in Roots Plays. He is often to refer to as simply Shibata, a nickname given to him by his father. In 2006, he entered his first season of CVM TV, Later Television of Jamaica, and he entered a competition in a comedian elimination show called Comedy Bus, where he placed third. From there, he was recruited by Stages Productions to appear in Roots Plays, such as Bashmik Rani. In his careers and after, Shibata has done over 20 plays, including The Wedding Scama, Crosses, Clash, Chick Stuff, Set Up, and Get Out. And of course, we must not forget, Shibata comes to town. Welcome, Keith, or should I say Shibata? Well, any name we'll use for me, honestly. All right. All right. So listen, before we start, right, because we're all theater, and theater is nothing that speaks to the times. And as the Bennett's pointed out, the Roots Theater, like the Greek Theater, was a theater that commented on current events of our times. Currently, there's an incident that happened in Kingston recently with a young woman, Kaelin Dixon, Dixie, if I get her name correct, and some statements were made by you in your character, not so much in the man as Keith Ramsey, that were landing on some of your fans in a way that is a bit sensitive and hurtful at this time. Can you say something to that before we continue the program? I just want to say that my statement was very clear. What I said about Kaelin, I must say that I do not condone violence against women. I don't do that. I want to make myself clear what I said the other day as it relates to Kaelin. I just want to make myself clear that my statement, I do not condone violence against women. Period. Thank you so much. Sometimes in our character and in the roles that we play, we're working in the moment of the time. And sometimes some things may be said and taken out of our real character. So we really appreciate that because we want to uplift black women. We are black women ourselves. We want to uplift our stories and we want to elevate the great and amazing theater that's coming out of Jamaica and mashing up the world. And so we just want to say that we want to no harm, no hurt to anyone. No harm, no hurt. With respect for all and wishing Kaelin and her family a speedy recovery with love to all. Okay. All right. So Mr. Valier, I want to ask you a question, sir. You were making your way between the film world and the theater world when Roots Theater entered the scene in 1970. What was it like at that time? Was Roots Theater a disruption of the North? No, no, no, it wasn't. Roots Theater was always been there, you know, it's always been there. It was just low-keyed and it was like a community thing. It was always been a part of the Jamaican culture. Right? And we had now the major theater, the mainstream theater that would present you with Shakespeare and you name it. Until in the 70s when Jamaicans started to write Jamaican plays, Roots Theater then become prominent because the Jamaican theater now started to adopt and started to take after the mainstream theater that was produced in all these foreign plays. But Roots Theater, Roots Theater, right? And then the order of man on the street would gravitate to the Roots play. So they had a mass audience. They ended up having a mass audience. So Roots Theater is the theater for the ordinary man? The ordinary man. The ordinary man. The ordinary man. The modern industry, uptown, downtown, all around town, every color of the town. I was surprised to know how much the uptown people, and you know what we mean by uptown in Jamaica. You know what we mean, uptown. Yes, uptown. Up across. Yes, up across. And a lot of them went and saw, because they were curious and they wanted to know, what is this big thing about Uber wedding and Andaminos? And they went downtown and saw it in the Roots Theater. They went down there and looked at the show. And I told them I was surprised to see what was being done and why people enjoy it so much. Nice. We're going to talk a little bit more about what was being done and why it's so well enjoyed. I want to toss this one to Maylin. Now, Maylin, how does a classically trained ballet dancer, thespian Shakespeare, what are you doing at the Roots Theater, Mrs? What's going on? Talk to me. What are you doing in Roots Theater? How do you find your footing? Voller is very right in that, you know, Roots is kind of, it was looked down on. There's this class thing with Roots. And for me as an artist, I'm very interested in form, and I'm very interested in genre. So I like all types of theater. And Roots Theater came into my face because of its popularity. I don't think it's something that started in the 70s as Voller says. Maybe it's kind of got its footing and emerged. But people always wrote stories, always told stories, repeated myths, and their culture lived this way. It's like music. So it has its place. And for me, I just had to get involved to find out more about my culture firsthand, taste it, live it, experience it. And it was just thriving. I was lucky that I jumped in at a time that Chewbada was really dominating the scene and still. So it's wonderful. I think also on a political level, the world is going through a renaissance, a little revolution and an awakening. And this goes back to even language and patois, and us realizing and accepting and using and practicing. And also practicing our native tongue, practicing the tongue a lot. And also being comfortable with it. And Roots Theater is a part of that. It's a part of our heritage, our culture, how we talk, how we behave, how we tell stories. And it's very important and very relevant and timely that you're doing this talk now on Roots because of what's happening globally. Do you feel me? Yeah. Yeah. Globally, cultures are trying to find themselves. People are fighting. Yeah, people are fighting. And for our creations, go ahead, sorry. Quite right, oughtn't be silenced. And so I think, you know, and Jamaica is very particular. Jamaica is not just West African culture and history. It's merged and mixed and wonderfully interesting. And we're just brilliant, eloquent, warm, musical type of people, Caribbean people in general. And so I think we're very good at being able to communicate and comment, as you stated earlier, on the times. And the times, of course. Let's ask this to Mr. Shabada. Keith Shabada, which one would you say? Is this the anyone? Shebi. Yes, shebi. I'm going to talk like a member of the family. Shebi. Here we go. Shebi. Yes, love. The Shabada factor is a term that Caribbean producers use to explain what happens at the box office when your name is on a ticket. In my experience, your work, in my experience of your work, you have created a classic representation of Roots Theatre with your approach to comedy and improvisation, as well as your crisp and precise performances and a wit and a comedic timing that is on the level of athleticism. It's like you're the UC and both of comedy, my brother. What drives you as an actor on the Roots stage? I mean, I must say to you that I'm thoroughly surprised as you, as anyone else. It is a shocker to say that. However, I mean, I didn't even know that I have this gift inside me. I don't even know what I'm doing. You understand if I might say that because it wasn't a gift that learned. You understand me? So when a person says to me that I am extremely good, I'm like, okay, it's I really can't hype over it because I really don't understand my own gift because it's so big and it's so wide. However, coming into theatre now, I normally bear harsh critique where acting is concerned. Anything of art is concerned. Dancing, singing, so I'm really harsh in that area. And me coming into theatre was a blessing because when I started with Comedy Boss, I said that I want to entertain the world. You understand me? I don't want to be a comedian. I want to entertain the world. So maybe within me, I know that there were there were much more to express than just with a mic. However, that call for stages production and this is where my gift now started manifesting. And I gained knowledge of everything I think what I'm doing. Bachelorette, you understand me? I mean, I didn't have such a lengthy scene. I didn't watch things to do in the show, but there and then I saw that the production needed help. And that's when I started creating characters and letting others know others know that you can create characters behind the scene without being on stage, without them being present. You understand me? You got to do the research deeper research character narratives to build out your it was on the stage. It was physical. It wasn't anything taught or written. It was all physical. And we started with Bachelorette and then we did Shabada come to town and they wanted to challenge me. My own coworkers wanted to challenge me. So they said that I'm going to play three characters. And I did. And I'm saying to myself, why are they doing this? And then they asked me to go like father likes son and I was not in the script at all for father likes son. So I said to the producer, okay, I will insert myself. And that's exactly what I did. Now, get out, which is one of my favorite favorite right behind Bachelorette. No, that's a parody on the horror film get out, right? Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Well, they introduced my producer said to me at the time said to me that he wants to work with this white girl. So you know me friend for tourists. So you thought you thought he was going to cast a tourist? Where are you going to get a white girl in Jamaica? I said, okay, I am on the north coast. Yes, I'm at the biggest hotel. And these tourists, they are coming in. You understand? So I said, yeah, let me work with mailing. And then when mailing came along and I said, okay, then how is it that she's going to understand my attitude, my style, my everything. But what I like about mailing is the fact that we are best friends off stage, but on stage, the worst enemy ever. Beautiful. I mean, I enjoyed working with mailing. So mailing, I might never tell you this before, but let me use the opportunity mailing you are a beautiful soul. I must say that you and John Palmanoa. Also, let me, well, so let me just connecting this characterization and character development and the professionalism that all three of you bring to the roots stage to the origin of roots theater. Now, when you talk about professionalism, I come to understand that roots theater take its roots from a thing called tea parties. And if an actor wasn't professional, there was a way that the audience dealt with those people earlier. Tell us about the tea party and how the producers used to make their money at the tea party. The tea party was something like, you know, in those days, you never have light and running water and people just live in a little house, two bedroom house and have a big backyard and things. And they call a tea party. They call it this party, this concert as such. And people write them on a poem and then they send them song for singing and thing and thing. And of course, they would come and perform and while performing, they have people bidding to keep them on stage or to take them off stage. If they're not good, people pay a penny and a heap and a trapeze, six pounds to take them off stage. And then, if they are really good, they would pay shelling and salt and put them back on stage. I mean, it was a community thing, a real community thing. And I'll tell you, in those days, we used to have drops, coconut drops and fritters and pudding. All of that was. All the nice Jamaican dessert. Yeah, little Jamaican, what do you call it? Confectionery? Yes. Yes. What would be there? And we would also have a cup of tea. You can get yourself a cup of tea and our chocolate, our coffee, you know, we have very good coffee in Jamaica. The best. Right? Yeah. So it started from there where people were trying with means and ways to entertain themselves. You know what I mean? We don't have a TV, we don't have a radio. At least, I want to tell you, maybe in the fifties, forties, fifties, we don't go back so long. Still. People never have radio. You know, I read other strange things to some people when they're here reading themselves and listening. So this was the kind of thing. They had to create their own entertainment. And they had to take jobs at the church and drive the church and drive the politician and drive the man who lives with his wife. It reminds me. So many characters. So many people to mimic. It reminds me a little bit of the Vaudeville tradition. It also reminds me of the early days at the Apollo, because when you think about the Sandman, if you were good and the crowd got up for you, you stayed on the stage. But if you weren't good and the crowd said, Sandman, that big hook come and drag you off the stage. But in Jamaica, you all, you all were ballers. You were throwing money on the stage. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, all right. It was fun. It was real fun. And people didn't look forward to it. I can tell you, as a producer, I would love it if the audience would throw money on the stage as well, if the actors are good. We American and world producers would love that as well. So, you know, speaking of the traditions, you know, this is really good to know where the culture comes from, that people were gathering. People were always, like you said, mainly before the 70s, before what is chronicled. And Brian Heap, Dr. Brian Heap said this on the first week where he pointed out the war theater was not where the real integration of Jamaican theater and African Jamaicans were doing theater long before the war. From the day they brought the theater with them from West Africa. And so, Melin, you are a very Jamaican woman. You had the opportunity to travel abroad and get your studies in the classics. However, you have not separated yourself from Jamaican culture in any way. You actually deepen your Jamaican culture with your studies. Yes. And then so, some would say, you know, the language in rooms theater. Well, you can't understand it. But it's so brawling. It's so ghetto. It's so how do you handle the language? How do you treat the language? I love it. I embrace the language. I'm better at writing patra than speaking patra because unfortunately, I grew up with the colonial shadow over my head. So the high school I went to or the upbringing, so to speak, you were chastised for talking patra. It was considered, you know, speaking bad, or you're going to get in trouble, that kind of thing. So, I just, I was a good girl. I was submissive and I didn't, you know, I didn't want to have anything to do with that kind of talk. And it's so funny being able to think for yourself as you get older, not just embracing patra and Jamaican heritage and my culture, despite what people or the majority might think about it. I'm not waiting for it to get the respect. I see respect do so. But this goes into a lot of what I do. So I like to discuss women's issues. I like to discuss, you know, it's funny that Shabby and you open talking about violence against women, because that's something that I really explore with conceptual art, conceptual photography during COVID. It's very important to me. So it's just been really rewarding to learn and to listen and to educate yourself about some things you might not know, despite popular opinion and see for yourself. You know, yeah. You know, it's interesting as a child, I remember I went to school up until about age nine in Jamaica. And, you know, I too had the privileges of being raised inside of the colonial, the uptown people. I was on the other side of halfway tree, so to speak. And I remember as a child, you know, well, yeah, I'll let you jump in. But I remember I personally love the sound of Jamaican language. I think it's sound better. And I understood better. And I remember I said to somebody at school one day, and I got beat from the teacher. And that day I hated the English language because I said, if you're going to beat me to sound like the people, this is not something I want to be a part of. That's not right. I'm about it at seven years old. Something about that beat didn't seem right, because I thought I sound beautiful. And you just beat me and say, you know, talk like that inside. Valir, talk to us about the language. What I was just adding to the conversation was that different parts of the country, Jamaica, speak different patois, different levels of patois. If I take you to St. Elizabeth, and let the people have known you talked to you, you need a translator. So St. Elizabeth is the southwest? Southwestern Jamaica? Yes, yes. And the language there is difficult to understand. Although my parents are, my father is from down here. So I understand them. You understand? But I can't even mimic them. I believe people from different parts of Jamaica who speak, it takes your time to unravel what they're saying. I once had the opportunity to go up to a compound. A compound is a big hotel. I'm saying it wrong, but I've been there for too long. I had the privilege of going up to La Cobia. Yes, I went up there to visit with the maroons for their annual festival, and the sound, the sound is, it has a rhythmic sound, but it also has elements. Jamaican language has, especially the Jamaican, that they speak in that area. Yes, yes, it has, there's a beat, there's a movement, and there's this bang, bang, bang sound, right? I remember thinking, this is language, this is not English, this is not a broken, this is a completely different language. That's true. With its own vocabulary, its own vowel sounds, its own syncopations, and that the language has survived for so long, thanks to places like Dancehall Music and Roots Theater, that the language has survived to the point where my nieces and nephews who are born in the US calling me, Auntie, can I get, can you get me a book? Because I want to learn Jamaican. People go sit down, that's how you learn Jamaican. Let me tell you how you learn Jamaican. Shibata, one of the things I observe when I watch you, I was watching, the other day I was watching Shibata come to town, and I was watching a scene where there's a character, the actor is known popularly as Bad Boy Trevor. I don't remember his character's name in the play. Ringo. Ringo? Ringo, Ringo, Ringo, Ringo. So there's a scene where, in which Ringo is the igla, the stallkeeper, and he tells you to watch his stall because he has to go off and go take care of some other business, some other politics in the neighborhood. And in that moment as I watched it, I thought, look at this, this is an important part of the culture, because the Roots Theater has specific stock characters. And I noticed that the stock characters are not just the historic stock character of the country come to town, like the character we see in The Heart of They Come, and your character in Shibata come to town. But when we see the shopkeeper or the stallkeeper, and we're seeing some of the aspiring artists, you see the singer, you see these stock characters. Talk to us about how Roots Theater, as you're making it today, is incorporating elements of really critical parts of Jamaican culture and preserving it. Talk to us about that. Okay, let me give my honest opinion about all of that. Theater to me back then, and I'm not being a hypocrite, I'm just stating my facts. Roots Theater, before I came in, I didn't like their performance. I think acting was forced. If they shout a lot, they overlap a lot. I believe that they don't listen. I believe that, not honestly speaking, you understand, I believe that Roots Theater is just that cutting edge as the Tea Party, as Valeo said. I think the Roots Theater to me would derive from a place. This is just my thinking out of the box to me. I think Roots Theater to me would derive from a place where, you know, you're burgeoning them, you're your friends on the corner talking. I know you are the clone. You are the clone of the class. You are the clone of the group. If you're funny, you can do a stand-up comedy. So if you're a smart actor like that, know what you can do. If you're entertaining a small group like this, challenge yourself as to how you can entertain a large group. You understand? I get back now to what you asked me about the incorporation of Roots Theater. I mean, when I look at traditional theater, it starts one way. For me, it starts one way. And if you can follow, you can simply explain and tell the conclusion. That is to me, though. The thing that Roots Theater didn't have at that time that I'm talking about is the fact that they weren't paying attention to traditional theater. You understand? You can have a clear beginning, middle, and end. Exactly. I think soccer is for everybody. And mainly in our value, it must have said that it was for uptown people. Theater back then was for uptown people, but Roots Theater, you understand me? So downtown, I mean, you put yourself wherever you see yourself. That is me. You put yourself wherever you see yourself. Brilliant statement. If you don't believe that uptown theater is for you, because it's theater. It's telling a situation and making it believable. It's not reading from a book and trying to understand the content. You understand me? That is different. But when you're going on stage, and this is me, where a person can't understand, and this is where I made my name, because no one in theater has ever done what I did. What I did, I teach on stage. I direct on stage. I produce on stage. I write on stage. I do all the important stuff that should be done off stage. I do it on stage. And in the same way, I see a character on stage with this character that I'm playing for another production. So there's no possible way as an actor you can ever be stuck in our box. And for such, I work mainly, no. Honestly, to God, up to today day, persons have to, to today, persons have to be able to tanyam. And that's your character from ghetto. No, that's royal palm. I mean, she was so given. She was so given, she was willing to learn. And that piqued my interest. Do you understand? And I said, no, I love this girl. She wants everything. That is there. You understand me? And when I worked with mainly, no, mainly, no came back stage one night and me, but mainly not summer painting to do, you know, but let me jump in here. Shabana, let me jump in here and just stick to this, this notion of you're getting where you see yourself. That's a brilliant statement. And I really appreciate that because I'm a producer. I'm a producer and I'm a director. And we're always looking at growing and welcoming our audiences. We're always looking at integrating our audience. But history has shown across the world that theater can sometimes be just speaking to one group of people. Now, Valiere, speaking on this, getting where you see yourself, when you started as, as an actor in the classical Jamaican theater and in film. And then as a Jamaican person, right, growing up in Kingston, growing up, you know, with relatives in the countryside. Where did you sit in? Where do you see yourself? And where do, you know, when I, your most memorable character for me is definitely the, the, the priest in, in all of us gives generously. Yeah. Where, where is your sitting and as an actor, how do you try to meld all of those worlds together? Because roots is, roots is not for everybody. It's not. But for those who it is, there's nothing like it. Tell us about that. No, let, let me tell you now, you see, when I went into theater in Jamaica, I started at, at the first show was skits written by Trevor Rohn. Yes, Trevor Rohn, my orange. Yeah. It was just skits. It was, it was a name for it in theater, right? Yeah. And so I had within a short period of time, you have to change from one character to the other to another character. And I thought, I thought it was funny to the, to the things like that. But then I went to Lloyd record that was doing West Indian plays, which I thought was very cultural, was very cultural stuff. Like the rose sleep in the beautiful Caribbean, pillars in the mud, those plays are very cultural, cultural to Caribbean people. Right? The work of the SNI, Paul, the work of Derek Walcott. Walcott, yeah. Yes, yes. You think of Moon on Monkey Mountain. Yes, yes, yes. Continue. And then now we go into commercial theater, that's Edward is commercialized like he was going to a movie on a Wednesday evening, you know, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. We had like six or seven shows a week. And it was really commercial theater. And it was all about, you know, love and marriage, sex, that kind of thing. As a matter of fact, there's this show named Love and Marriage, Sex, you go doctor, you name it. And we used to translate shows from American scripts, translated in Jamaica, like Murdoch or Johnson, Jamaicanized it. I live by myself. And Grace McGee, we played it. So it was, I had a cultural experience. And then I had a commercial experience of commercial theater. That is the time when the Roots Theater take off also in Jamaica. And I always wondered what would we like to work in a Roots Theater? Because at the time, it was exciting, disorganized on stage. They were, I mean, it's the first half of the show. That's slightly, that's slightly what it was. True. Disorganized, right? So what can I want to do it and do I want to do it because I don't see. But when I went to work with Shabbat and all and with Roots stages, it was, then no, I realized that they were trying to keep the thing as a storyline. I care what we did to it. We keep the storyline and the essence of the story. So it became more attractive. So you had playwright Paul Beale. Yeah, Paul was like that. The works for four stages and also is the author of Underminals. And let me just, I reference Underminals for those who don't know. This one is one of the classic Jamaican comedies. And it's actually about a very overbearing father by the name of Aloysius. And he kind of takes on the character of many Jamaican fathers who work very, very hard to send their children to school. And their daughters are their prize. And their daughters are their whole world. They actually have more hope in their daughters than they do in their sons. There are many Jamaican fathers like that. I know many of them personally. And Aloysius, he's overbearing. He's very cheap. And he is doing everything to make sure that the little boys in the neighborhood don't come and distract his daughter because she's going to Yui. She's going on in life. And what happens is because of the way he is, all the boys in the neighborhood get together to figure out ways to fool him and to take away and to pursue and persuade his daughter. And when you look at a play like that, and you look at the social commentary, you may laugh at the top. But when I watched Underminals now so many times, when I was a young child, I wasn't allowed to watch it. And then I became a woman and I was able to watch it. And I looked at it and I said, you know, you're laughing, but there's so much truth because number one, fathers, black fathers, Jamaican fathers are not put out as protectors, as being there, as constant, you know, patriarchs of their families. There's a negative stereotype around black men in general as fathers. But those of us who grew up in the society and know this, we know that fathers are there. They're in the home. They're providing for their children. So speaking to Shibata, talk to us about even though there is a lot of comedy at the top, what is really at the root of Ruth Theatre? Because I think it's a very political theatre. I mean, I believe that Ruth Theatre to me, and this is always my belief, and I only can speak based on my acting. This is why I do what I do. I believe that Ruth Theatre is a way of telling someone who, let me just say this, this is just like an analogy. Someone who don't understand English. It's hard to speak to somebody that is a literate. It is hard to speak to them in an English form. What is it that they're going to understand? So I believe that Ruth Theatre is a way of expressing the truth and expressing one's mistake. You understand me because a lot of people watch a Ruth's play. We do things, we depict situations from the inner city. Even from a family or from a particular community. This is what we do. Theatre, and we laugh at it. But even though as an actor, you have to put yourself in an audience standpoint, in an audience seat also. So you're just as an actor, so you're clueless to all the audience react out to their reaction to whatever you're delivering. And I think Ruth Theatre is a place that tells the truth. It doesn't come with theories. It is the raw material you get. What you see is what you get. We are telling you, Mr Officer, how the fight really happened. This is it. I might laugh at it because really and truly, if you look back at yourself in some situation, you say, oh my God, Jesus. So theatre reflects. Theatre is reflecting. And as Brett, you know, they say Shakespeare says that theatre is too, you know, in Hamlet, we hear young Hamlets say to the players to hold up as we're a mirror to nature. And then Brett comes, Bertolt Brett, the great German playwright and theatrical philosopher comes forth and says, no, theatre is not a mirror to nature. Theatre is a hammer that smashes. Exactly my point. So I want to, you know, and so we see, we see in a lot of ways in the Roots Theatre, the mirror, and then we see the hammer. Choose one. Choose one. If you can't merge the two, you gotta choose one. Oh, you gotta choose one. Well, I prefer the mirror sometimes because sometimes I prefer to merge the two. So listen, we're getting, we're moving now into the Q&A. We're getting a lot of comments from the, from the audience. A lot of great questions and great comments. And before we move into that, I'm going to toss some questions to you guys. But first, tell me something, Valiere. You mean to, I heard that tens of thousands of people attend these performances. Bashmeh Granitoo. Uh-huh. Break record. And people brought their dinner. Break record. The parniel porridge, their chocolate tea, and they lined up for hours. And never forget to say at night, I will went to this, this place in Maypin. We couldn't keep it as a normal spot. At a normal, like in the, in the, in the garden of a hotel or anything like that. We kept it in this. Give me my shibara. This dusty place. Yes, yes. It was a big theater. It was a big place, an open space. Because no actual theater can hold you. You actually have to be outside in a theater. 7,000 people were there that night. In one performance, 7,000. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah. You're going to get some calls from some U.S. producers soon because they're going to want to know what you're doing. I can't, we have a place out here named, um, well, when I placed an Oxford Road name again in Shibata. Where? Well, we're going to skip, um, stage show, an Oxford Road. A pure one. No, Oxford Road Band in Kingston. Oh. Mass Camp. Louis. Oh, Mass Camp. Miss Camp. It's called, um, and I'm Mass Camp. It's called, um, it's Mass Camp. The Golf Academy. The Golf Academy is one, but I remember over there, Mass Camp on a Mother's Day. A house in trust. Right. Yes. That is, that is the big field. These are like stadiums. So you need to tell me theater in Jamaica is selling old stadiums? Yes. Wow. Oh, wow. Mass Camp. I think I'm in the wrong genre. I think I need to come down to Jamaica and start producing. Okay. No, you don't. You don't. But the tradition. I think I see where my career is headed. Listen, let's take some questions from the audience. Right now we have Cheryl Ali from the comments on YouTube and she asked, Shibata, you have the freedom and of improv within Roots Theater. You're very good at improv and really great timing and instinct. Do you see yourself transitioning more into or more into or doing going back and forth between traditional scripted theater with a more scripted structure or do you just to confirm you repeated the two questions? Okay. So do you see yourself going back and forth? So would you be working for a jam base or would you be performing in the pantomime anytime soon? And then we also have a, I have a question for you after this one. I mean, I can only see myself where I want to go. So if I'm doing well without being scripted like that, I think I want to pursue this. I want to continue. I want to perfectly with this side because it makes no sense. If I'm freely living like this, I want to cage myself to a script. Mark, I've worked with many directors, many writers, and I gained some knowledge that persons do write for them for themselves. You understand me? When I touch the stage, I feel the presence of the audience, they are hoping for something I have to give it to them and that I would enjoy staying where I am. Okay. You know, it's interesting because I look at you and I'm thinking, you know, I'm thinking about some work here in the U.S. by some incredible, incredible writers. And I think, man, we could really benefit from your, just your, the way you move your body on stage and just your comprehension. So as I said, don't be surprised if the U.S. producers call you sometime soon. No, if you can help us, no, you see it. No, you can help us out to understand. We have a member of our audience who talks about the pantomime and just wanting to, you know, they mentioned that we, we talked about the pantomime last week. The question is, last week you talked about pantomime and not roots. What is the difference between the two? And just if you can talk about Ralph Holness and his transition out of pantomime to being a pioneer of roots, if you can talk a little about that. The pantomime is different in, it's not even like the pantomime you call the pantomime, the pantomime is just pantomime. It's not even like it's a tradition. The pantomime is a musical. We adopted from England. Every Christmas in England, at every theater, there's a pantomime, right? Good. So it's really a musical with commentary, social commentary, and singing, a lot of singing, right? Singing and dancing to tell the parts of the story. So that's what pantomime is about. Okay. Ralph now, Ralph came off the big mum bomb era, or to the big mum bomb. They were a comedy duo, right? Yeah, and clover. Okay. Kind of like Laurel and Handy. For those of you who are scholars of Vodville and American comedy era, kind of that kind of Laurel and Handy classic. Yes. And then what Ralph did was, I think it was, Bim wrote a script. I can't remember the name of the script. And Ralph took it and produced it. But Ralph was a clever producer. Very clever. Ralph is the only person I see in Jamaica as a producer who put out two full page ad, center spread ad in the Galina. Oh, wow. The most major paper in Jamaica, right? Right. And at that time television thing was, you know, people wouldn't advertise on TV. It would depend on the Gleaners to tell us what is happening in theater. If you saw the commentary about theater in the Gleaner. And Ralph has two full page ad in it. Yes, and? He was going to be seen. And I tell you something that man created to draw a crowd. Crowd. I don't know who I'm going to call them inside the poor white theater. But in full, the theater, in full theater, they were called outside the theater to the debris glass door at the front. They used to have to do four shows a day and the war. Yes, especially, especially if it's a holiday, like a boxing day. Boxing day, the day after Christmas. Yes, or not in the Commonwealth. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Our New Year's Eve day. Our Easter Monday. Who's in New York City? He is a resident of New York and Carl is letting us know that the roots play still out in New York as well. It's awesome to see the response. He notes that even people who don't understand what you all are saying, they don't understand the parts, but they feel the energy from the performers. And I really thank you Carl for that comment, because when we met earlier, Meiling, you talked about that, especially Meiling, you're a dancer. So your whole, your whole, you have what's called kinesthetic intelligence, meaning, oh my, reading for the girl, okay. She has what's called kinesthetic intelligence, which means what any, any movement in a space, it's learning through movement, learning through the body, learning through your sensations. So as an actor, training ballet to stand, you know, upright, what do you do when the audience is cackling and talking to you? How do you respond? Well, listen, you know, Shebi was the best tutor because Shebi actually method trained me on how to stand up, how to do a dem girl stand up, how to, what we call one debate, right? How to relax the body, the whole body language of, of the persona. It took me into Franklin Town ghetto many times to experience chicken back in a bag, like you remember these things, Shebi? Like all kinds of things, like for me to live really grow. And you know, I wanted to add as well that as someone who's really been, you know, doing mainstream commercial theater in working with Shibata, I don't think he even is able to articulate or really understands what he has done for roots. Now, Volare mentioned that roots, you know, pantomime is musical song and dance, telling a story, sort of commedia dell'arte. And I think Shibata and writers like Paul Beale, what they have done is they've taken these stereotypical archetypes of good and bad, like you'll still have a villain and so on. But they, it's such a modern form. I can only compare it to some writers like UNESCO. Oh, yeah. And why I introduced that is because with Shibata. Right, rhinoceros. You think about the absurdity of rhinoceros. But not just the absurdity, Akiba. Also, the human quality, there is no good and bad. So I'll be playing a character in the ghetto who is good, but to have bad ways. But I might be the hero, but I also was a little bit of an antagonist. So it's introduced because of a very modern form of theater. So he's taken these archetypes and they're there in the script, you know, but the brilliance of the actor, what I'm saying is they've given it a human quality where when you sit down and you watch the play, you see yourself because no one is completely good or completely bad. Are they or the villain has their story too? So it's remarkable. I don't even think he realizes what he has done with roots because roots, to me, roots back in the day was, you know, passive, very passive. As much as you see in Karimea, Kiguel, instant market, it was very passive. It was not as aggressive. It was not as quick. It was not as sharp. And Shibata has really set a standard there, so he pokes and he prods. I'm going to take a state, share a statement from another audience member, Phillip Clark, just in line with what you're saying here, mainland. He points out that who started out as your theater, which is the theater of realism, like you point out with the UNESCO's work in Ibsen and all of those European and, you know, Eastern European writers. It's really celebrates the survival of the common man forced to live in challenging conditions. Trevor Rohn and Errol John, you know, in two weeks, we're going to be speaking to playwrights. We're going to start our playwrights series in the talk, right? And we're going to talk. The question is a statement that George Bernard Shaw visits Jamaica. He visits Kingston in 1911, not even 2011. Shaw visits Jamaica in 1911. And he makes a statement of the fact that the theater that he was seen was not represented. It was not Jamaican theater because the Jamaican theater, the Jamaican people, there, the prolet, the working class Jamaican people, their story wasn't on the stage. So what Shaw was saying is until you have that story, you don't have a theater. And so what you and Phillip Clark are really honing into is that theater cannot just be for the uptown people, as earlier put it. Theater has to be a place where everybody can see themselves as Shabbat is saying. That is profound. That is really profound, guys. That hit me at my, that hit me at my core. I have to, I have to pause there. But Akiba, that applies to everything. For instance, with history, there are no women writers. There are no women heroes. Who are you going to look for? Nanny of the Maroons? There were more. There were hundreds. But you don't hear about them. You don't hear about them. There are, in other words, people have always been, been telling their stories and Roots Theater has always been. It's a, and they deserve a voice and they deserve to be heard and to come out, you know. This, this one way of theater is not even always. It's not even, you know, anyway. Go ahead, Valier. Go ahead. I don't think you should say it's not even always. You must say it's not we, not we. You're not we. Yeah, but it is, in other words, it's not, in other words, we are many other things. Things. Exactly. You know, or many things. So it's only fair if I'm in, you know. And I mean, I'm talking to the world now, but I mean, I've, I admit this, that we are a very aggressive set of people. Even in the way we speak to each other. And I mean, you can't actually stand up and don't hear what I'm saying, but understand where the conversation is going. By our gestures. Yeah. That's, that's, that's what Jamaicans are, right? I spent some time in Italy and I don't speak any Italian and I went to a lot of theater. Yeah. I learned and I gained a lot. I didn't understand what those people were saying. Yeah. I enjoyed the play and for some reason I came out transformed. I felt something. So I'm going to transition into this notion that people like to talk about aesthetics, aesthetics. You've heard that term, aesthetics. The thing has to be aesthetically pleasing. And my good friend and mentor points out to me a notion of aesthetics. People align it with beauty, but my friend and mentor, he points out that another friend of mentor of his changed his viewpoint of aesthetics, that aesthetics isn't about pretty things, beautiful things, aesthetically pleasing theater is Shakespeare and ballet and Moliere and all of those great people or even Wilson and Baldwin and Hansberry who we all love. But aesthetics is the opposite in its root of the term anesthetic. And an anesthetic is something that doctors give people to cut off their feelings. And an aesthetic is something you give people to make them feel. So what is the aesthetic? What's the thing that you're doing to make people feel to the point where you would bring in box office drawers, people would line up in the rain with their little bickle, as we call it, your pot of food. You're calling me a porridge because I don't go, you know, I love to go beach with my car meal porridge. What is, what are you making people feel? What's going on here? Don't reveal the car meal porridge, Shabana. Go ahead. I mean, for me, for me, and this is what I'm going to use the privilege of being a bit of brother, a brother and mailing part. I mean, I started working with a mailing. She was the one on stage to just stop and watch me. And forget that she's on the stage with me. You understand me? And she said something to me one night. I don't even think she remember. She said to me, oh my God, Shabee, you are so good. And I'm like, I'm like, okay, ma'am, but this is what the show should be about. But I understand where she's coming from. And as you talk about that feeling as an actor, it can never be on the director or the producer to tell you that this is how you must emote. This is the feeling that you must, how you must emote certain scenes, certain feelings. It is that you have to read with understanding and understand your audience before the show starts. And a lot of actors, you don't understand your audience. The audience, they are not obligated to laugh at anything that we say or do. It is our duty to play a sales representation in front of them. So in some ways it's like you're a salesman? You're a sales rep. And no one is going to buy your goods if you can't sell it authentically. Valir, you have been, you know, you've been in the theater, you know. I'm not going to lie on your age because as I said, you got this day to face. So I'm not going to call out disrespectful numbers. 52 years. Say 24. 52 years. Somewhere in that neighborhood. In your years in the theater, both in the classical theater, in the film world, in the television world, and in the roots theater, they like when I watch your work, it aligns with what Shabada is saying, this sense of responsibility to represent a truth in the narrative, in the lived true experiences of the Jamaican people. Where do you center your work as an actor on the Jamaican stage? Where are you pulling from? What are you trying to make people feel? The first thing, when you get a character, your research is the character, right? Either for the 52 years I'm on stage, I've been doing that. Research, whether it's a character or anything. You must make people who are watching you believe what you are doing. It must be believable, right? Say, when you make a joke and then you laugh, you still keep a straight face and make people believe this is all stupid, the person is, or, oh, oh, seriously, you take the situation. That is what it must project to your audience, right? I have played a lot of different roles, but I mean some of my most enjoyable roles, I remember being madman three different times, and it's three different madmen, three different. One of them aggressive, one of them is just a real nervous breakdown, you know what I'm saying? One of them was trying to calm them with a true life and lose everything. I think it was a pandemic trash. We had to tiptoe through that show for two hours on my tours. It was the very last initial that I went down on me and stood on me. Right? In Cowboy, I was a, oh, it's just a, my nerves gone. It was just, I was a honest person, very honest person, and I ended up in prison because of my honesty. I'm from prison, when I'm caught in prison, I have nobody, but I cross those markets, I eat out a garbage bin and to move, reach up tall on me and eat out that dumpster, and this lady picked me up and beat me up. I care about that. You understand? But you have to make the story believable. And when I worked with Shibata, that was what we aimed at, although we were doing different things on stage and something like that. But keeping the storyline and make people believe what was happening was true. You know, in the moment that you were telling that story of your character in Toy Boy, you made me see because the truth is, I talk about poverty, I talk about mental health as conditions, not characteristics, right? They're not even things you can inherit poverty, yes. You can inherit some challenges with your mental health, yes. But they're conditions that we can move in and out of. When you tell that story of that character, you know, having had a hard fall, then end up homeless on the streets and all of what come with homelessness, hunger, not being able to take care of your daily custodial needs to show yourself, toilet yourself properly, all of these things. And when we see this character on stage, when we see him on stage at the Little Theater, at the Ward Theater, we see somebody we know, but we also see somebody we fear we can become. Yes. That comedy allows us to look at that character that we don't look at because we walk past the mad man, the dirty mad man as we call them in Jamaica, the dirty homeless person. We walk past them every day and we don't look. Right. Yeah, we don't pay them any. Sometimes you might recognize them and say, what the hell is that man? Then we used to teach, you know. Wow. Hard to see them with a secretary. And this is what happened to her. But I remember doing that play, Leonie and myself, Leonie Forbes. Leonie Forbes. Yes, the great Leonie Forbes. Right. And I got best actor for the part. But I remember doing it in the night. And more than one occasion, people came out of the theater saying that they know somebody who the same thing happened to. Yeah. Yes. So you have to be able to play, make the character believable. And you know, the thing is when they leave, they're talking. So the theater, they see the aspects of their lives on the stage, even in the Roots Theater. You're going to see it more in the Roots Theater because the Roots Theater is going to be more deeply embedded in Jamaica and everyday life than stories and narratives brought to us from different parts of the world. So that's very valuable. I just want to go quickly back into the comments, questions from the comments. We want to shout out to Mr. Glenn Campbell. Glenn Titus Campbell is in the audience. That's an honor to have you. We're actually going to be talking to Glenn next week about the business of Jamaica Theater. And Glenn Campbell is an actor, comedian, extraordinaire, extraordinaire. And also a serious, serious businessman when it comes to theater in the line of a Ralph Holness and the Paul Beals, you know, knowing how to pull the audience and how to manage it. So we're going to talk to Glenn. Glenn wanted to give all three of you, Valer and Shibata and Melina and you guys can watch the recording later, but he just wanted to send his love and camaraderie to you. We have a question from Krissa Leed who asks, for Melina and Valier, are there any aspects of specific to Roots? So there are aspects of Roots Theater that has helped you to hone your craft and or think about within the traditional theater space that you could benefit. So what are you taking from Roots Theater back into your traditional Western European style of theater and playmaking? Listen, I don't even know how to answer that question because I know when I went over to Roots Theater and for the couple years I worked with them, I gave a lot to them. I used to work with Mr. Beals. Mr. Beals is a nice person, you know, and he wrote some very good script and he would sit on and trash all the script. Yeah, really. What would I take back to traditional theater? I don't think I take back anything to traditional theater because I was spent so many years in it that I had not more to give to them. I learned more going over to the Roots Theater than what I had to give back to the traditional theater. So in a lot of ways, Roots Theater expanded you so much that you're not really looking to take anything back to traditional. No, Roots Theater was, it was fun, real fun when they were on stage, believe me. They were nice when we were on the show and we climbed this own box, the one on our team. Yes, it was fun but the story which we tried, we have to fight hard to keep the story lying together because the audience behaves. They're really roaring and they're not laughing, they're roaring. I mean, 10,000 people laughing and responding to you at 7,000 people. Yeah, 10,000 people at one time. It is a roar. Melin, any aspects of the Roots style, the Roots genre that you bring with you when you are working? If I bring you and cast you as Lula in The Dutchman, what would you take from your work in Roots Theater to give us Lula? It's not Lula, am I saying her name right, Lula in the Mara Baraka, the Dutchman? What can you borrow if I were to cast you in that role? To me, Roots Theater was a real aggressive reiteration of fundamentals in theater, which is listening, not just listening on stage, but Shabada said it earlier, listening to your audience and feeling your audience. So it was a very sensory experience for me with Roots. Roots also has audience interaction, which is something that I'm not necessarily used to. So there was a time when somebody would all throw some garbage on stage at the effects with you. These are things that happen during the show and like I look at Shabada and you look at me and we just know continue and you actually have to incorporate it into your character. Don't be afraid or startled by it. So it's taught me constant awareness and it's taught me, aware of my audience on the sensory level, but really a lot about listening and timing. It's sort of like mainstream theater, but on a lot of amphetamine. So you have to be quick, you have to be sharp. It's taught me a lot that way. You know, I think about when we were prepping several weeks ago for this particular talk, we try to stay away from these like American and European comparisons to the art because if you look at anything, you can compare anything to anything. And I don't like the idea of legitimizing anything that Black cultures do by putting it in its place to a European culture or even any quote unquote first world culture. I think what you have is what you have, but as I think about the power of roots, the power and the brilliance of roots to speak to an audience that's sometimes being excluded, the audience who I call the all arts medicine. For me, arts is medicine. Every art is a medicine. And to me, when we leave out groups of people because of their social economic background or their use of language or their history or the tone of this, whatever, what part of what zip code, what neighborhood, what part of town they come from, we are poisoning our culture because we're not giving the medicine to all. So I think about roots data in comparison to the gospel stage play in the US, the works of Tyler Perry and the works of David Talbert, which uses that same culturally specific mores, the media character, the rising star artists, these particular stuff characters to speak to the massive that sometimes the more gentry large institutions are not speaking to and are not welcoming in. And I feel like that's what roots theater does. And to do it unapologetically and to do it unapologetically quite right what you're saying. Yes. And you know, to think about it, many people when we first thought about doing the series and I spoke to some folks that I know who are also Jamaican. And I said theater, they said two things. They said the ward and Shabbatah. No one brought up Baldwin, no one brought up Lorraine, no one brought up Shakespeare, you know. So we have to be able to make a space for everybody to be where they see themselves, as you say Shabbatah, that is truly profound. Well, yes, I'll let you have this and then we're going to start to close out. I just want to say this about roots data and I think I would be so hypocritical and unfair if I didn't get this out. I think what about roots data and actors of roots data? I mean, some actors like myself is that when I'm on stage, you have to understand that I'm working. So whatever I'm issuing, you are going to get your money's worth. Now, if you want to leave this going about what I said, how I portray myself or how I bring across this thing, it's up to you, but you're at a play called roots play. We tell it like it is. You understand? We tell it like it is. As Mellon said, unapologetically, we do that. That is what we do. You understand? So if, for instance, then you are a girl like this, say you're a lady of the night, but you're acting as if you're going to a show, we are going to call you. We are going to call the streetlight stoplight pedestrian white line. We are going to call you something. You understand? Because we get roots playing the pigs line of ghetto people and uptown people, meaning that the upper class and the lower class. And when you merge the two together, you are thoroughly entertained, but yet you leave with something. As Valia said that we sign now to keep a storyline. Yes, we do. So roots are theater as earned space on the map of theater. Anywhere in the world. As we go on, Shibata, I'm sitting here and watching you and the director producer means like, man, what show can I bring him up here to do because I want some of that Shibata factor. But Philip Clark talks about just one more statement from our audience here. I'm going to take it from Philip Clark. Philip Clark says, Shibata, I know that you say you may not learn much anything from the traditional theater, but I believe that the crossover could widen your reach and strengthen your ability to execute. Would you try a crossover? So would you cross over into mainstream theater? Can I cast you in my production of rhinoceros? Let me say this quickly. I mean, I have done traditional theater. I have done that. You understand? And then, yes, I did pretty good, but when I checked the levels, there wasn't anything there exactly that I would really want to take from it. If you understand what I mean, not disrespecting it or anything, not doing that. But, you know, being as a child watching all of these traditional theater running, you understand me? How much more can you make it? Oh, authentic. Can you make traditional theater? That is the reason why I can say that because in traditional theater, as Mary in Kentilly and Vale in Kentilly, is that you work based on blockings, you know, and staging. And there is no night that the audience can rail for you in a traditional theater and you change your line. You have to be reviewed like that. You understand? There's no freedom, so to speak. Okay, so you need the freedom of improvisation that you're going to express myself. If I'm going to express myself about the situation, I mean, I want to express myself the best way possible. I do want to express myself through your eyes. I mean, the situation asks me, how do I see it? You understand me? And if you can, as a director, if you can merge it with the actor, or if you can say, all right then, you're stronger. So let us try yours tonight. Okay, you're telling me, you're telling me how to reach you because I'm going to find the place about it. I'm calling you back. I'm calling you and sending that script. I'm coming back to you. Mr. Johnson Kentilly, every audience and every night, they are completely different. I can believe it. So as we close out, we're going to just do a quick visioning. And if you can, you know, we're at the end of our time. So if you can make it one nice, clean sentence each, or even three words, that would be good. But what's your vision for Roots Theatre beyond COVID? How do we walk through the gateways of the 21st century, preserving this amazing, amazing part of Jamaica? Let me just stop. Let me just stop you there. I mean, after COVID, Roots Theatre is going to take Jamaica, better yet, the world by storm. You know why? Because people are dying for entertainment and they want to live what happened in COVID through the stage. Okay. What about you, mainland? What's your vision for Roots beyond COVID and through, as we walk through the gates of the 21st century? I just, just a phrase taught the teams come to my mind. Definitely. And on a virtual platform because of the virus, you know, COVID not going anywhere right now in a Sherb. What about you, Volier? Let me tell you something. I'm looking forward to see the amount of COVID please that will come after COVID, right? And I'm sure it's going to be very funny, because a lot of people have already had different experiences during this period of time. And my tears, somehow we're hungry again. Hungry, suffering, right? So we have all over the story. And also, you know, we have this whole thing during all the COVID thing, this black life, matters, put all that together. And of course, your election over there where people know how to work with others. We had everything, them Roots Theatre people had everything to them, when I'm ready. I'm sure it's going to be fun. We're going to see some black lives matter. We know we're going to see Kamala on stage, because Kamala is half Jamaican. So I know, get ready, get ready, maybe they're going to call you to play Kamala very soon. It's going to be funny. Kamala, they may call you to play Kamala too. Yes. Listen, we're going to wrap up and take it home. We have, let's see, yeah, I do need to devise piece that allows tons of improv. Folks in the chat are saying, yes, Akiva, you got to find something for Shabana to do in Boston, and I will. Listen, next week, we are going to talk about the business of the Jamaican stage with the very, very successful Jambiz Entertainment. Speakers are Lenford Salmon and Glenn Campbell, producers of Jambiz. Glenn Campbell is also a legendary actor on the Jamaican stage. Lenford Salmon's history in theater dates also back to the little theater movement, working with Trevor Rohn, working even with Ralph Holness and many of the luminaries here called today. Jamaicans have a saying when they depart, we say, what good? And what good means? I wish you only the best in your life. We theater people, we have a saying when we leave each other, we say, see you on the boards. And for actors, that's also a blessing because the boards are the floorboards of the stage. And if an actor says to you, see you on the boards, it means see you at the next gig, see you at your next job. So listen to our audience, to our panelists, and to all of everyone who has helped to support us, what good and see you on the boards. You hear?