 Well back with the breakfast in Plos TV Africa, time for us to look at the next conversation which is about the statement and the broadcast from the DSS talking about a plan to forestall an interim government. It might also interest you to know that following the highly contested general elections there have been several concerns before today that some misguided political actors are planning to bring an interim government to power. Now spokesman for the department of the state services that's the DSS, Peter Afunaya confirmed the plot on Wednesday which was yesterday that the DSS according to that statement which was made you know via a tweet he stated that it has identified some key players in the plot for the proposed interim government in Nigeria. Now most of the planners are politicians and they have had several meetings to this particular effect. Now according to the DSS those planning and plotting to bring an interim government are weighing various options by which their goals can be achieved and this includes sponsoring of endless violent mass protests in major cities of the country as to around a declaration of state of emergency. Now another is also to obtain a frivolous court injunction to forestall the inauguration of a new executive administration and also the legislative houses at the federal and state levels. Now the department of the DSS has also is quoted to say that they are strongly warning those planning the interim government move to retract from these deviators you know schemes and orchestrated plan saying that the DSS is going to monitor development closely and will not hesitate to take very decisive actions which some people are saying what time is it to take a decisive action if you have identified people and necessary legal steps against those that want to frustrate the system. The DSS has also stated that it supports the president and commander in chief in its various you know statement and will to ensure that there's a hitch-free handover and will ensure that that happens. Now Nigeria in the past if you look at our history as a country we have experienced an interim government you know which followed the June 12th 1993 presidential election it was won by Mosheud Abiola and it was also annulled by you know the former general Ibrahim Babangida that actually led to a serious crisis as soon as that crisis seemed to have been abated in the beat the general Babangida handed power over to Enes Shonikhan as an interim head of state that happened on August the 27th you know 1993. Now Shonikhan's government was adjured largely as powerless and was dissolved when you know the late general Sanya Bachar seized power on the 17th of November 1993. Now with all that's been said let's have a guest join us at this point Nika Guley thank you so much he joins us right here in Lagos. Nika are you in Lagos? We are in London the United Kingdom. It probably would have been in you know an oversight thank you so much for joining us this morning but I mean briefly how did you react was your response as soon as you saw the statement and you read the tweets and saw the story that's making the rounds? Well my first reaction when I saw the statement was the way we do things in Nigeria it doesn't just align with the way things are done elsewhere and I always say that if it is Nigeria's avowed commitment to join the ranks of the developed world we simply can't do differently from what they do to be able to be developed. I mean if you if you want to catch up with someone on a race and he's racing with a motor car and you think you can use a bicycle to catch up with him I wonder how that's going to happen and the reason here is because the DSS or the Department of State Services formerly called SSS their job is intelligence gathering that is their main job intelligence gathering they are not a law enforcement agency of government their job is to be all over the country in the communities plant their people in offices in markets everywhere to gather intelligence and once they gather this intelligence they are expected to now hand over this intelligence to law enforcement agencies the first of which is the the Nigerian police force and then the law enforcement agencies are now expected to act on this intelligence and then begin to take the necessary actions to protect Nigeria and so if the DSS as they have confirmed in their statement that they have identified they are not suspecting they are not thinking or they are not just you know postulating in their statement they said they have identified people who want to usurp our democracy and so what you expect as it will happen elsewhere is for the DSS to now hand over this information this intelligence quietly to the law enforcement agencies and then the next move is for the law enforcement agencies to begin to arrest these people who have been identified who are working against our democracy and that arrest will lead to their interrogation and that interrogation will lead to a collection of evidence and that evidence if it is verifiable it is substantial will then lead to charging these people to court and that court process will lead to incarceration and incarceration means these elements will be picked out of society and put away in jail so that our society can function very well this is the process that you expect but here the DSS is coming out to make a public statement I'm trying to understand the importance of this statement is it us Nigerians no but I was hoping that Mika Goulet you as an expert I was hoping you would help me understand the rationale behind this and what this statement you know sets to achieve I know that you're not of the security extract but maybe you have an idea what this would actually do for the Nigerian people this information you are very correct messy that I'm not a security expert I'm a public affairs analyst I look at things that are happening and I have opinion over there people can accept or agree with my opinion or not that's fine now from my own perspective I think let me try to read the mind of the DSS to read the mind of the DSS is the DSS are coming out to make a public statement so that those who are behind any plot as they have seen it will desist that is those people will now know that oh their plot is already known by government so that we now discourage them from going ahead with their plot I think in the mind of the DSS that is actually what they are intending to achieve I'm just trying to read their mind but on the other side the DSS is totally wrong to come public with information like this because number one it will tip off those who are behind this plot that oh the government understand their current move what now stops them from taking other moves that they believe the government will not see number two it it just sends the wrong message into the polity already the polity is heated up we have had an election which is disputed people are protesting there is all sort of anger in the system you know and then the DSS now comes to drop something on the table to say hey people are planning international government that is to even scare us more scare mongering now you know people are now people are being pushed over the brink because when you would have thought that oh what they are saying is a lie you know nothing is going to happen in Nigeria we are saying we are okay the DSS now confirms that yes it's true international government is coming there will be chaos there will be all sorts of things it just it just it's not good for our democracy it's not good for economy people who are trying to book flies to come to Nigeria and do business and are advising themselves that don't bother to go to Nigeria or because the DSS is not saying things are going to happen back there so at the end of the day you discover that whatever advantage that the DSS thought they were going to gain by making the statement public has been totally obliterated by the downside of making the statement public so I don't really understand the importance of the DSS coming forward if they gathered intelligence by the law setting them up they know where to channel those intelligence so that action will be taken and not just to come and be making these kind of statements to the public all right but I'd like to ask you you know if you look at the crux of the conversation an interim government there's a plan to have an interim governments installed despite the fact that there's been a lot of assurances from you know the government boss muster for recently was his been on the news and he said oh we're going to ensure presidential uh you know transition handover smoothly but do you think that as an interim government is possible without the approval of the executive arm of government it's totally impossible I mean when I read that bit in the DSS statement I even tried to understand if the DSS even knows the workings of government even if they have an idea of our democratic structure who can go and sit in Asu Vila and form an interim government without the government of the day handing over to them now is that possible I mean aside from the DSS saying there's going to be a cool guitar here is that possible that Nika Gule will just call on Messi and some other people and we match to the federal capital and set up an interim government is that possible it is totally impossible the only person who can take the reins of power in Nigeria to form a government is as handed over to him by the incumbent president or Nigeria president Wari as sworn in by the chief judge of the federation that is the only constitutional way that you can form a government so perhaps perhaps the media needs to quiz the DSS and ask them now possible the plans that they have unraveled who lead to the formation of an interim national government without president Wari doing a handover without the chief judge of the federation doing the swearing in then maybe the DSS can tell us the plans they say they have unraveled on how this nettering government can be formed without going through the constitutional way of doing it because if you look at the statement the DSS says oh they are trying to force an interim government through two means two means number one that they are going to be doing protests all over Nigeria and these protests are going to lead to a declaration of a state of emergency now you ask yourself how would a declaration of a state of emergency lead to the formation of an interim national government and is that possible if the the president declares a state of emergency in Nigeria it only means that the president has assumed the emergency pass and he can bypass some some of the democratic structures that we have and begin to act to be able to bring the situation to normalcy it's not going to be some other element coming in to form a government the second route that the DSS the second route that the DSS says that this interim government will be formed is by saying that these people are going to court to obtain a frivolous injunctions stopping the inauguration of of the incoming government but then you ask the DSS if you go to court now maybe all the way to the highest court the supreme court says President I mean president president-elect Bola Tinibu should not be inaugurated how then would that mean Nika Gulek cannot go to Abuja and form an interim national government it only means that president Buwari will be in office until the day that the the the supreme court says this is the person who will be president of Nigeria so whatever it is said there is no link between what the DSS says these people are planning to do to interim national government so I think the DSS just dropped interim national government to their statement to to just to just go in line with what some people are suggesting that there should be formation of an interim national government something that the DSS should have dismissed with a wave of hand because it's impossible yeah but but Nika Gulek I mean if you look at the suggestion or you know the options or some of the statement that the DSS has put out it talks about court injunction it also talks about the fact that protests now all of this is trickling down from the elections there's a trickle down effect now because too many persons have been displaced with the outcome of these elections and we've seen pockets of protests across you know little you know gatherings of people in different parts where women and NASA were you know dealt I mean you can't even begin to mention but not simultaneously in the entire federation but in different parts of the country and so what does this really mean that those who are protesting the outcome of these elections or those who are saying we're going to court and we're challenging the entire process of the outcome is this what the DSS is referring to as a plan to have an interim government so the the the activities that the DSS says in their statement that are happening are really happening and protests are happening all over the place you will see that in a democratic structure when the election results aligns with the will of the majority of the people you will see jubilation so you saw jubilation in apia state you saw jubilation in bainway state you know they were jubilation in some other places where the results as announced or declared by INEC was in line with the majority of how the people voted but there you will not see in states where that is not the case there are protests like in nasa hour state there are protests in nasa hour state protests in kaduna state there are protests in enougu state you know these are areas where the outcome of the election was not in tandem with what the people thought they voted so those things are happening and it is perfectly fine i mean in in a democracy you must allow protests because the protests that make democracy to thrive i'm speaking to you now uh in london uh here in the united kingdom if you go to parliaments square which is the seat of government of the united kingdom as i speak to you now you are going to see at least 20 to 30 different groups protesting to parliaments for members of parliaments for one reason or the other so we must allow people to express their their their grievances publicly through protests so long as the protest is not violent so long as it's not destructive the role of the security should be to ensure that there's no breakdown of law and order you know so that is happening yeah then the other thing that is happening of course is court cases there are all sorts of court cases at all levels right from the presidential to the house of assembly elections in agiria so all those things are happening but there is no link whatsoever between these two happenings that is protest and judicial processes to the formation of an ethereal national government who can go to abuja and then the service chiefs will begin to report to the person you know then the all the permanent secretaries in the in the federal government will begin to report to the person without the person formally taking the powers of office either from a handover by the president or from a judicial pronouncement or anything like that is that possible the media needs to ask the dss to tell us how is it possible that some elements can form an interim national government in agiria without taking power from president buwari or being a uh uh a lapsu either by by by the national assembly as as we had in the in the other the other time when when president vice president vice president uh gulo genata through the doctrine of necessity was handed over the reigns of governance in agiria or through a judicial pronouncement okay but but but we have to go in no time but it's important that i ask you this question and part of this time i have tip to whether you think that history repeats itself now and if you we cast the minds back to what had happened in 1993 the uh you know moshuda biola elections june 12 and the fact that you know after the crisis had you know reduced to some extent then you had general baban ghida at the time handing over power to an accession account do you think that you know this probably might just be the case because it's if you look at the similarity we've had an elections people are displaced with the outcome of the election some peasants uh and then you have a president elect and one of you and people are thinking that hey this was not the wheel of the people some others have taken to the street uh there's a lot that's going on so do you see you know uh history repeating itself there are similarities are you thinking that what we had experienced in 1993 might just be you know playing back where there is i've heard people talk about history repeating itself i even read something on on the internet that had so many similarities between 2023 and 1993 actually 30 years ago but there is a key ingredient there's a key element that is not the same between 1993 and 2023 in 1993 we had a president ibrahim baban ghida an army general who was not willing to leave office he didn't want to leave office uh he was looking for any means to to to stay in power and uh that an international government uh was a way of he's saying i'm stepping aside probably with the idea that in in due time he's going to come back so that was a different situation in 2023 we have a president uh Muhammadu Buhari who has repeatedly told us Nigerians that he is going to hand over and live on the 29th of May 2023 so these two scenarios are different if president Buhari is king and i mean i'm not a suzerain so i cannot go and read his mind to say what he is telling us is different from what is in his mind then i can say that 2023 is different from 1993 because in 2023 president Buhari has evolved that he's handing over and if he's going to hand over then we're going to watch on 29th of May 2023 uh president Buhari handing over to president elect uh bola uh tinuble yes we know that there's been different you know uh assurance i mean you want to say that the government has been very big in it this government has said that we're going to ensure free credible elections uh you have the presidential transition council uh transiting and that has been commented in prior to the dss revelation of having an interior government which we know that it's not possible to have an interior government without you know the government of the day being involved in it and so what exactly is the dss saying is it that this government is planning to have an interium government uh you know too many questions uh begging for answers just like you've stated we hope to have you know conversations with members of the dss or those who are in the service you know to answer although this has been made probably contrary to all of the conversations but nika gule you can also not take out the fact that uh when someone says they will do a thing and do not do it that's when you say the lack of integrity and over time we've had several promises from this government from president mohamad wari himself he said i belong to everybody and i belong to nobody but over time for the past seven years plus and counting almost eight years uh you can't really say that this being a coherence in that statement of the president saying he belongs to everybody and he belongs to nobody now if he was like over time if you look at the action it's contrary to what he stated and so what exactly is the thing that nijuans can hold on to to say hey if the president is saying i would hand over uh you know to the next uh uh governor a president elect then that would be a thing should nijuans take that with a pinch of salt or should we keep our fingers crossed too many questions to answer but nika know that you have some things to say we're being prompted to leave now maybe just in a second yeah i was actually going to praise you for raising a matter that probably didn't even think about because you know you did say that the only reason the only way we can have an international government is if uh president wari who is in unseat proclaims it and who knows uh is that what the gss have seen is that why they cannot even order an arrest is that why they are just wanting those who are involved to desist from doing this and all of that but uh time we tell and i agree with you that this government has failed on so many promises so many uh even the election that they said we're going to have electronic transmission uh that has failed uh just a few subsidies and all of those things so uh we are we are right to take whatever they say with a pinch of salt but uh fingers crossed let's see what the next few days we hold thank you nick we have to go now and that's the size of a conversation for this first you know uh topic we take a break when we return we'll be looking at the issue of the scarcity of denier the availability of it following the direction from the cb and the supreme court ruling and whatever you stay with us