 Okay. Recording has started. Good morning everybody. Welcome. Let's take a moment to pray and then we'll get started in our class today. May I request somebody to please lead us in prayer. Abhishek, would you like to lead us in prayer please? Sure, Pastor. Okay, go ahead. Holy Father, we come to your holy presence right now in the name of Jesus. Thank you for your grace and mercy, Lord. Your Word says that your mercy is new every morning, Lord. Thank you. You bless us with new opportunities, new blessings each morning. Thank you for that, Lord. So I pray Holy Father, so bless this class, Lord. Bless Pastor with your spirit of wisdom, understanding, knowledge and revelation. Speak to him by your Holy Spirit, Lord. Fill him and bless him abundantly, Lord. And give us each of the students listening here and understanding heart that whatever we learn today, Lord, that we may understand, Lord. And we may grasp it in our heart, Lord. And we may apply to our life, Lord. So give our obedient heart, Lord. And that we may obey the Word of God, Lord. So bless each one of us. And thank you for hearing this small prayer. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen. Thank you. I wish you good morning. Good morning, everyone. Once again, thank you for joining the class today. We are going to spend some time today. Hopefully we'll try and cover this today, if possible, in these two hours. Another aspect where a lot of questions are asked. And, you know, we, at different points, will face questions. Sometimes personally ourselves and sometimes questions are put forward to us that we have to address on this whole area of suffering. And so that's going to be a topic. And we'll try to address this in these next two hours. And do our best, do our best to understand this area. And I'm not saying, you know, we have all the answers, but we're going to try and do the best we can and bring the light of scripture to bear on this subject, on this topic. So I'm going to go ahead and share the PDF that we have put together on this. And then, you know, feel free to ask questions as well as we go along on the subject. So this whole area of suffering is hard. It's hard. It's not easy to deal with, to address, but let's try to do our best to get a biblical understanding on this area. So the way we're going to approach it is, first of all, we're going to start by saying, you know, let's try to get understanding God's heart in the light of his original intent. You know, who is God like and what is God like in relation to this area? What was God's original intent? What is his heart in this whole thing? Then we acknowledge the reality of suffering and the fact that we can, we can experience suffering in all three realms, spirit, soul and body, people suffer. So it's, we can't, we're not denying it. We're not pretending it's not there. You know, it is real. It's sometimes terrible what people go through, whether it's spiritually, emotionally or physically. Then we want to try to look at what are the different reasons, you know, why there is suffering. Now, of course, we're doing this all from a biblical perspective. You know, so we try to look at scripture and say, okay, you know, what are the reasons we find in scripture? Then what would be suffering according to the will of God? Meaning this is something that God says, look, you have to go through. And so we want to understand some of that. And then there are these, there's this big question, why? Why does God allow me to suffer? That's a very big question. It's not easy to answer that. But we're going to try to, you know, having put together biblical reason, then we say, okay, let's take these reasons and try to answer this question. You know, whether someone is asking it personally or some, whether the question is put forward to us, how do we respond? How do we try our best to understand that? And then what should I do when I face suffering? What would be the biblical response that God has presented to us, advised us, instructed us? And then we look at persecution, which is, you know, it is suffering, but it's a different kind because it's like attack on the individual. It is a violation, but yet it is still a reason for suffering. So we will look at this. So that's how we want to break up this topic. It is a very big topic. We will do our best to, you know, present it in a concise way and see how much ground we can cover in the two lectures that we have today. And maybe if we need to, we might spill over into one more lecture. And I'm sure there will be a lot of questions, but let's address them. So let's start with the first point that we must consider. And this is, I think, very important to keep this. That is, what is God's heart in the light of his original intent? So we're going like going back to the very beginning or we are going back before the beginning, right? So what's there before the beginning or at the beginning? We see, and these are familiar scriptures, so I'm not turning there. In Genesis 1.31, you know, when God created everything, he finished all that he had to do on the earth. And the Bible says, God saw all that and he created it, and it was good. So there was goodness on the earth. There was no suffering. There was no evil. There was no sin. It's really hard for us to even imagine a world like that because, you know, that is so foreign to us. It's non-existent as far as we are concerned. For us, there is so much pain. Look around. There's all kinds of things, whether it's sickness, whether it's poverty, whether it's violence, whether it's abuse, all kinds of suffering. So, but try to imagine way back in the beginning, an earth where God had put Adam and Eve, this garden and all of creation and everything was good. There was tranquility. There was goodness. There was perfection. There was no evil, no sin. There was no cause for pain. And, well, that is stated in Genesis. What is interesting is when you get to the end of the Bible in Revelation 21 and also in Revelation 22, that's how the Bible also ends. The Bible ends by telling us that there's going to be this place on earth, new earth. Where heaven is going to come down, be on the new city of Jerusalem, on earth, and God will come to dwell on earth. And there will be no more weeping, no more pain, no more sickness, none of that. So, when you think about it, hey, the Bible begins like this, the Bible ends like this. A place without suffering, without pain, without violence, without evil, without sin begins and ends. So, what can we say about God's heart? It means that God does not want his people to suffer. He doesn't desire for his people to suffer because in his original creation, original intent, there was no, there's nothing that could cause pain and suffering. And in what he is going to do in the future, he's once again telling us there will be a place without pain or suffering. So, what does it tell us about the heart of God? That God is not the God who causes his people to suffer. He does not desire that because if he desired that and if he felt that, hey, suffering is good for everybody, let's keep it in heaven too and keep it with us for the rest of eternity. But that's not how it is. That's not the way he originally created. And neither is it going to be the way he's going to make things in the future. The way he's originally created or the way he's going to take things, make things in the future is no more evil, no more pain, no tears, no sorrow, no grief, no violence, nothing. So that's the heart of God. So we must therefore be very careful and we should not accuse God for our pain and suffering because that's not the heart of God. That's how God is making me suffer. Well, be careful before you say that. God is the one who's teaching me, we can learn lessons through our suffering, sure. But let's not accuse God. How about learning the same lessons without the suffering? How about joining the God in such a way that we walk in the provisions he has made and try to overcome or at least keep our way as much of this pain as possible? So the point is that's not God's heart and we should be careful not to accuse God. So the only evil that existed prior to the fall was Lucifer. He'd been cast out of heaven and the earth was for man and we know what happened in the garden. Lucifer came in, he tempted Adam and Eve, got them to disobey God and through that disobedience sin came in and death through sin. And so sin opened the door to all kinds of evil. So it wasn't God who put evil in the earth. So how did evil come? How did pain come? How did suffering and the things that cause suffering and pain? How did that come into the world? God didn't put it in. It came in through man's disobedience and by sin entering the world and death came in. So here again it's important for us to keep that in mind that it was not God who introduced suffering into this world but it came in because of the disobedience of man. And so sin opened the door to all kinds of evil and we can therefore say it's not part of God's original intent. This wasn't what God wanted. This is not what God wants. He hasn't changed his mind and said, well, because sin has come into this world, from now on I want suffering to for every person. No, he hasn't changed his mind. God hasn't changed. So it's not part of his original intent. The reasons or the things that cause suffering came in because of sin, not because God brought it in. And so the reason I'm repeating it or reiterating it is we shouldn't point God, you know, accuse God in the midst of our suffering. That's not the right thing to do. You know, where is God or why is he letting me this or you know, hey, understand the big picture. Understand this is not God's original intent. It's not God's original intent for pain and suffering. And that's not what he designed. That's not what he desired for his people. But what do we know about God in Jeremiah 9 and 34 that God is the God who executes loving kindness justice and righteousness. So this is the God of the Bible. He's the God who administers loving kindness justice and righteousness on the earth. Now, it is true that God judges people, but he's judging the sin. He's judging the unrighteousness, but he has made provision for mercy. So it's not like we don't have a choice or we all are, you know, we all have. Well, there is the provision of mercy so we can get under the mercy of God if he would meet the conditions that he put forward for us. Otherwise, we are going to have to face the judgment for our wrongdoing. But who is God? He's a God whose heart is for goodness, whose heart is for loving kindness, his heart is for justice and righteousness. That's his desire and he's not the one causing pain and suffering. Having said that, we cannot deny the reality of suffering. That means, look, we know who God is. We know his original design. We know his original desire, but the reality is, look, people are suffering. There is pain. There is all kinds of things going on. And Jesus himself acknowledged that. In John 1633, he said, in this world, you will have tribulation. You will have things that press you. It's like put you and crush you and you will have those kinds of things in this world. Now, that was not what God created, but God is saying that is there. So even God is not denying the reality of suffering. Even though he didn't intend for his people, he recognizes that it's there. And he has in the sense of giving man free will and respecting man's choice. From that perspective, he has permitted it to go on. Even though it's not his design, it's not his desire. Because of the free will and the respect for man's choice, this has come in. And so in that sense, God has permitted it on the earth. And so there's all kinds of things happening that really crush us in many, many different ways. And we recognize that suffering can come in all three realms, spiritual, emotional, physical. And obviously, these three realms are connected very tightly interconnected so that sometimes if the real root of the problem is spiritual, it can affect emotional and physical. And if someone is disturbed emotionally, it can affect them spiritually and physically. So these are interconnected. And so suffering in one area does affect the person in other areas of their personhood. And so we don't want to discredit or make it sound like one is more painful than the other. If somebody is suffering, we have to recognize it, whether it's physical, emotional, spiritual, and we need to help them through. We need to see what we can, not to carry their burden with them, help them through, bring them out, so on. But we recognize this is a reality. So let me just pause here to see if there are any questions before I move forward. All right. Okay. Everyone is quiet so far. All right. We will go forward, feel free to ask questions as we progress. I will just go back to the PDF. So what we want to do now is biblically from the Bible, what are the reasons we see given to us in the scriptures for the things that cause pain, things that cause suffering. What are the reasons? What can we put down? And then we will see how to make the connection. So, again, this is, to my understanding, you may, you could add to this list, but these are things that I do see in scripture. One, and we will explain each one of these. There is suffering due to the bondage of corruption. We will explain. Okay. There is suffering due to one's own actions that we understand. There is suffering due to satanic oppression. That means the devil is directly behind some of this. There is suffering due to other people's actions, including persecution. So man is evil and he does evil to other people and causing suffering. There is suffering due to divine judgment. So God is a just God and he has to address the issue of sin. And there is divine judgment. And there's also suffering due to willing sacrifice. So that's another aspect where we choose to sacrifice it in the process. We take on some amount of suffering, which we do intentionally for various reasons. So we're going to look at each of these and try to understand. And then we will begin to talk about the connection with what people are going through and how we relate. How do we help them? How do we address the address questions and so on? The first one is suffering due to the bondage of corruption. And this bondage of corruption is a phrase from the King James, the new King James Bible. It may be phrased a little differently in other versions. But the passage that we want to look at is in Romans sub to eight. We will read verses 17 to 23. Romans the 8th chapter, 70 to 20. Could somebody read this passage for us please? Romans 8, 17 to 23. Yep, go ahead somebody. Romans 8, 17 to 23. Can I read faster? Please go ahead. Romans chapter eight verses 17. And if children then as as of God and joint as with Christ. If indeed we suffer with him that we may also be glorified together. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it in hope. Because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labours with birth pants together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the first fruits of the spirit. Even we ourselves grown within ourselves eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. Amen. So Paul is talking about suffering in this present life. So, you know, verse 17 is interesting because he says, look, we are as we joined us with God. May God has put us in this great elevated position. A great place of honor that we are heirs and we are joint heirs with Jesus. And he says, look, but even though we are in that elevated position, the fact is we are, you know, there is this suffering we go through. But we know that if you suffer with him or for him, it will also be glorified together. So there is this, the two sides that we are going through right now. There is this suffering. There is this glorification that we have. We are glorified together being heirs of God and joined us with Jesus. But the reality is we are going through suffering for him and so on. And then he starts telling us and it gives us a background to the suffering verse 18. He says for the sufferings of this present time. So look, this present time, meaning our journey here on earth, right? And there is suffering. But we recognize, we keep this in mind that this suffering that we're going through on earth verse 18, it's nothing compared. It's not even fit to be compared with the glory we're going to experience. So the suffering on earth, it's harsh, it's painful, it's bad. But he says it's not even worthy to be compared. That means it is, and I use the word insignificant, but you know, we don't want to belittle the pain nonetheless. But what Paul is saying is it's so insignificant compared to the glory we are going to experience. Then in verse 19 to 23, he starts telling us something about this reason for the suffering and what's happening. He says, you know, even for the honest expectation of creation, so all of creation, everything that's on earth, all of creation is waiting for this glory which shall be revealed. So even creation is longing for that. The glory which shall be revealed in us as the sons of God. The sons of God has kept some tremendous glory, glorious things for his children. And even creation is waiting for that time when the children of God will enter into the glories that God has prepared for them. Then he says in verse 20, for the creation was subjected to futility, the creation. So in your mind, just imagine, everything on earth was subjected to futility, something that was vain, something that was, you know, it's not what God wanted. But notice he says in verse 20, for the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly. That means this was not what God really wanted. This was like we said earlier, this was not God's original design. But he let it go. He let creation become subject to futility, verse 20 and verse 20, because he subjected it in hope. That means he let it go. But he had this hope. That means he's looking ahead into something in the future, the hope of that glorious liberty, the glorious things he was going to do for his children. Verse 21, the creation itself will be delivered from the bondage of corruption. So all of creation. When the children of God enter into this glorious things that God has kept for them. At that time, all of creation is going to be delivered, is going to be set free from what he says here, the bondage of corruption. That means right now, all of creation is under or is in the bondage of corruption. What is that word corruption? The word corruption simply means decay. It's a deviation from God's original design. So right now, or from the time of the fall, creation went into subjection to corruption or decay or a deviation from God's original design. But a time is coming when the children of God will enter into their glorious liberty, their glorious freedom. And my God's children enter into their glorious freedom. All of creation will also be brought out or will be set free from being subject to corruption, is what Paul is saying. And so in verse 22 and 23 he says, you know, even creation groans and labors. It's like, you know, it's waiting for this time of delivery. It's waiting for this time of birthing. So even creation is groaning and waiting. And verse 23, we also, we who have the first foot of the spirit, we're also groaning and we're waiting for what the redemption of our body. So we are looking for the time when God will redeem us and the bodily bring us into the glorious things he has kept for his children. And when God does that, even creation will be delivered from the bondage of corruption. But the sufferings of this present time are because right now, creation is in bondage to corruption. So that's the first reason why there are sufferings in this present time. Everything on the earth is subject to corruption. That means it's subject to decay, a decline, a deviation from God's original design. So that explains why, you know, why do our bodies get old? God never created the body to get old. The body God gave Adam and Eve was intended to, you know, it would never decay. It would never decompose. It would never get old. It was meant to be there. But then after the fall, bodies started getting old. So people, you know, the early people lived several hundreds of years. And then eventually it came down to a little over a hundred. Then it came below hundreds. So what is that? It's bondage to corruption. It's a deviation from God's original design. When you look at things in nature, you know, whether it's the elements, you know, God didn't create a world where there was tsunami and earthquakes and hurricanes and tornadoes and those kinds of things. That wasn't the world God created. He created everything perfect. But then why are all these things happening? Because of bondage of corruption, bondage to corruption, all of creation. God let it go, allowing all of this to deviate from his original design. And all these things are happening because all of creation is in bondage to decay. It's in bondage to corruption, deviation from its original design. Why are children born deformed? Why are their deformities, you know, at all levels different? Why are there all these things happening? This wasn't the world God created, but this is happening because there is a bondage of corruption. Now, how do we balance this with the idea that we make this statement, God is in control. And I put it in quotes. God is in control. We make that statement. The answer is yes and no. God is in control and God is not in control. So what do you mean? Because here it says God gave up the world, all of creation, temporarily to be subject to, to be in bondage to corruption. So in one sense, he is in control because he's going to change all of this. But at the moment, all of creation has been given up, although not willingly, to be under something God doesn't really like. It's not God's intent. All of creation is subject to the bondage of corruption. So God has God set things in place. He had set the processes in place. So the process of procreation was designed by God. It was set in place by God. But and the original plan was every baby that would be born would be absolutely perfect. So that process was set in place by God. But then that process right now is in subjection to corruption. So the process of procreation is being corrupted, has been corrupt. And so then you have babies who are born deformed. Is God to blame for it? No. Did God intend that? No. What's happened? The process of procreation which God set in place has deviated from its original design. And so you have all of this. Think about weather conditions. God set processes in place. They were perfect. But all of this came in subjection to corruption, bondage of corruption. And so there is a deviation from the original design causing all these kinds of things. And none of these things can be turned back to God and say, God, you're to blame. No. He created it perfect. Man disobeyed. And creation was subjected to futility, to the bondage of corruption. Not willingly. But that's the time you're in. And that's what causes the sufferings of this present time. The good thing is, as believers, we can rise up against the bondage of corruption. So when Jesus demonstrated it in John 9, they see a blind man say, this man is born blind. The disciples say, they connected to sin, of course. They say, oh, who sinned? Did he sin? Did his parents sin? So here's a man who was born blind. Is that God's design for him? No. God designed the human body to be perfect with eyes. But why is he born blind? Because of the bondage of corruption. But the root cause was sin. So the disciples are thinking in terms of sin, but they don't realize that there is the original sin, but the process has been corrupted. And so he's suffering not because of his sin, not because of his parents sin, but because the process has deviated from its design. And so he's suffering now. He's born blind. But what does Jesus do? He comes and says, I'm here to do the works of God. What are the works of God? They'd be undue the damage caused by the bondage of corruption. They'd be reversed by the power of God. And he receives a sight. So this is miracle. This is an undoing of the fact of the bondage of corruption. And so, as believers, we have been given authority both for ourselves and in administering to others to undo the effect of the bondage of corruption. And that's what we call as miracles. And as we pray, we administer the power of God. We use the word of God to undo that. But ultimately, ultimately, all of creation will be delivered from this bondage of corruption. And both the children of God will receive the redemption of their physical bodies into perfection. And all of creation will be brought in when God creates the new heavens and the new earth. So today, in this present suffering, one of the reasons we must understand is creation is in bondage to corruption. We cannot blame God for it, but we can override it with faith. We can override it with the word of God personally and in instances that otherwise all of creation is subject to the bondage of corruption. Let me pause here and see if people, if we have understood this. Do we understand this on the bondage of corruption? Everything is, do we all understand it? Yeah. All right. I see your comments on the chat. Thank you. Christopher, your question on the flood. Let's pick it up on when we come to that point when we talk about suffering because of God's judgment, right? So we will connect back there. Just please remind me in case I forget to mention, to address that when we talk about the point on suffering due to divine judgment. Say, you wrote the word immortality. Was that a question or did you have something to ask or say about that? No, what you were talking about when God created man, he didn't create it to be old. I was just adding my comments to what you were saying. Okay, got it. Right. Yes. The word immortality has to be immortal. Correct. Correct. Thank you. Your hands raised up. You want to ask or say something? Yes. Thank you so much. I just have a question on this subject of the suffering because of bondage of corruption. So in case an unbeliever asked this question, how do we respond to him? Because here we can call the Bible to believe and people have an idea of God or people believe, not an idea, people believe in God that exists. And if we meet someone who doesn't know God, who doesn't believe in Jesus, how do we explain it to them scientifically or... Thank you sir. How do we explain it to them? I am not sure if I have like a one size fits all type of answer, but what I would do is, you know, I would say, look, if you really want an answer, I could tell you what the answers that are in the Bible, right? Because for us, the Bible is a reference point and that's how we understand the heart and mind of God. So I can answer, I can provide answers based on what we see in the Bible and would you be open to it? If he says no, I don't want you to say anything from the Bible, then I will maybe... Okay, I will use an analogy from everyday world, but that kind of actually is related to this, what we are saying. So maybe I will use this analogy, it's okay. Let's say you get a brand new vehicle, you know, a car, you know, you buy a brand new vehicle, it's manufactured, you know, whichever motor company. Now, technically, that vehicle is perfect, technically. Okay, you know, it's been, you know, let's say it's 100% perfect, there's no defect in it. Now, that perfect vehicle once it's taken out can still experience problems. Did the manufacturer make it to have problems? No. He designed it, you know, to the best of knowledge, his knowledge, the manufacturer, the motor company designed it for it to be perfect. But then what happens? What, where can imperfections come in? Well, one is there's a wear and tear of the various parts of the machine and so when there is wear and tear, it deviates from its state of perfection. And so the performance is not at the level at which it should be and a lot of other things happen. The vehicle can eventually break down and so on. So meaning there is a deviation from the original design because of, in this case, wear and tear. Second, the person driving the vehicle is also responsible. The vehicle is perfect. But the person driving it is rash, is not careful. He can have an accident. So then who is to blame? Do we blame the manufacturer? Do you blame the vehicle? Or is that the responsibility of the person driving the vehicle? An accident has happened. Who's responsible? The manufacturer, in most cases, no, unless, you know, there was something happened to the vehicle that caused the accident. But let's say the, you know, the vehicle itself was fine. So who's responsible? The person driving the vehicle. Not the manufacturer, not the vehicle itself, but the person driving the vehicle. So he has, again, a problem that is not caused because of the manufacturer. So I would say, look, this in some ways, but not entirely, but in some ways communicates what's happening. God created everything perfect. But when there is an accident, we don't go because just as we don't blame the manufacturer, we can't go and blame God entirely for the accident because the person driving was responsible. So I try to use analogy. If they don't want to accept the Bible, we try to use a little bit of analogy, but remember analogies are not perfect. They don't communicate the truth in entirety, but they can communicate certain aspects of truth. So to that extent, you know, you could try to explain using something like this. Or maybe, Maggie, you can come up with some creative analogy. But, you know, you would use things like that to try to get the point across if they don't want to look to the Bible. They're willing to hear the Bible. Then by all means take the passage, explain it and say, this is what the Bible says. And if they're open to the Bible, you know, it's very powerful because God's word is powerful. When you present the word, it will really impact them. Okay. Is that okay, Maggie? Yes, that is. Thank you so much. Thank you. Sri Kumar, please go ahead. Thank you, Pastor. Pastor, I want to know, I guess, Brother Maggie was asking that how you explain sometimes something to the unbeliever or a new person who is coming to Christ. This is an incident which happened in my life when my parents were not saved. But I continuously, I used to visit their place and three years I continuously visited and for three days I used to fast and pray for their salvation. And later what happened that one day, one pastor visited my house, I was not there and he conducted a meeting and my father and mother gave their heart to Christ. But after that, after one week, my father was sleeping on his bed and suddenly he had a brain hemorrhage and he passed away. And that literally shook, my mother was actually, you know, was about to come to Christ, but that shook her faith. And after that, after completing that one year of my father's death, my younger brother passed away, suddenly he passed away. And then again one more death happened, my youngest brother passed away, but the younger brother who was recently married, he had a child, that child passed away. Now my mother is in a confusion that whether to accept Jesus as a savior or not, how I can be able to, you know, encourage her and build her faith and make her to understand about the suffering. When this is not from God, but she thinks that it is from God and that God has done it and God has not heard her prayer. That is my question that how to explain these kind of sufferings when you, when, which can block the people to come to Christ. Thank you, Pastor. Yeah, that's, yeah, sorry to hear that. And how do you explain this? It is difficult to explain, you know, explain things, I mean our understanding to somebody who doesn't have that kind of understanding, right? It's not easy. And especially when they're going through the pain, it's very difficult for them to see, you know, see through that we are able to see. So I would say that we, you know, we maybe don't try to explain because they may not be in a position to receive yet, but just be there for them. Support them and pray for them. Especially when they're going through that time of pain, that you know, go to that going through that time of grief and given that, you know, from what you've shared. There have been multiple deaths, quickly, one of the other show you're she still may maybe still grieving still going to the pain. So it's difficult to, you know, theologically explain things, even if we understand it's not it's and also it's not the minute be the right time to do it. So what I would say is, at this time, you know, just be there pray, support comfort and pray that God would bring an understanding, you know, because these things are spiritually understood, right? We can't just logically explain these things. And the pain and the suffering and the grief prevents people from understanding this. So for now, I would just say, don't don't try to explain. I mean, in your mind, you may know that this is not God. And this is this is not God's design. But it's difficult to communicate that get that across to somebody who is in the middle of all of that pain without that understanding. So right now just, you know, just be there, support and courage and pray and let the Lord, you know, first of all, heal the emotion, heal the grief, heal the pain. And then maybe, you know, later on, they would be able to, as they read the scriptures and through the word of God, they'll be able to understand that God is a good God. God is a loving God. He did not create all of this pain and suffering. They will come to understand that slowly and later on, when if you do get a chance, you know, if your mama asks, you can then explain, you know, like God created everything perfect. You can take them through the same scriptures we went through, you know, in the garden, everything is good. Revelation, everything is good. So what does that tell us about God? You know, and then you can explain how sin came into this world and everything because of sin. But you do that at the right time, which I would say is after, you know, they go through the pain and the grief and they're, you know, they're able to listen. That's when I think we should do it. Is that okay? Thank you, Pastor. Thanks. Okay, let's take a break now. I will come back and we look at the other comments and questions in the chat. And so let's take a 10 minute break and we've gone five minutes into our break time. So we'll take 10 minutes from now and we'll be back and take this forward. Thank you.