 How, as Indigenous people, we have the right to practice. We have the right to relationship with the Earth, we have the right to stories. And I want to also say that I'm not going to reveal any sacred teachings tonight. I'm not a shaman, I'm not a mythical mystic person. I'm just a community member and I can't speak on behalf of all Native people. Even though my tribe claims me, I do not speak on behalf of all people. So anything that I share, I know this is true for you too, Juan, anything I share. I do it in a good way with an open heart. So protecting the people who have given me the gifts and acknowledging the people who have taught me my teachers before me. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for joining us tonight for another edition of Life Saves the Planet, hosted by the GBH Forum Network. We are delighted tonight to have Don Nickerbocker and Juan Martinez with us, who will give us some profound insights into Native American culture and many things that I think we'll want to incorporate into our own lives. So Don Nickerbocker, who I had the great pleasure of meeting at a conference where we were both speaking in Yellow Springs. And we have been in conversation since then and she kindly agreed to join us tonight. She belongs to the Ashinaabe people. She's a citizen of the White Earth Nation, enrolled member of the Minnesota Chippewa tribe from the Otter Tail Pillager Band of Indians. She's an activist, advocate, organizational strategist, land and water defender and a leader in the philanthropic sector. She believes that peace is not merely a distant goal, but can be achieved within our lifetime through deeply connected and authentic relationships with the land and the people. Don spent over 20 years of her work life as a grassroots organizer on the front lines of Earth-related matters. She now serves as the president of the Greater Cincinnati Native American Coalition, co-founder of Warren, Ohio and co-leader at Yellow Springs Climate Action. Don spent the majority of her career working in nonprofit leadership and in practice of reciprocity within philanthropy. She worked as a grantmaker in Washington State when she designed and implemented Spokane Arts Grants Awards that serves over a million people. Don recently worked as a director of foundation relations at Antioch College and now works full time for Native Americans in philanthropy, which serves all of Indian country on cultural and tribal issues. Don is the former elected chair of the advisory commission on diversity for the most diversity in the state of Washington. She is a published nonfiction writer poet, public speaker columnist at the Yellow Springs News Little Thunders and the 2020 Martin Luther King drum major for justice award recipient. Don holds a bachelor's degree in organizational management from Whitworth University completed graduate work in social impact back from Claremont Lincoln University and a masters in arts in human rights practice from the University of Arizona. Her latest anthology is titled navigating the pandemic stories of hope and resilience resilience. She lives in Yellow Springs, Ohio with her husband and four sons and 49 medicinal plants. And she's only 20. I can't wait to see what you'll do next. Tom Martinez is a senior program manager at the Aspen Institute for community solutions and proud descendant of the Bayna Zappa tech people. He's a co founder of fresh tracks, a youth led cross cultural revolution rooted in the healing power of the outdoors, as well as implementing the tribal and indigenous community practice for the opportunity youth forum. He has helped to grow the silo breaking and community organizing that is so direly needed. One has over 15 years of nonprofit management and implementation of strategy and was named a national geographic explorer in 2011 for his work to engage the rising generation of youth to the healing power of the outdoors. He also serves on the wilderness society's governing council is a Ted speaker and author and is dedicated to bringing the power of equity and justice to life through youth and community driven solutions. He has committed to help empower the next generation of leaders dedicated to addressing systems of inequity and access to opportunities by working with community leaders, nonprofits and businesses across the country. John resides in Blanco, Texas with his wife, Vanessa, and I would just add that I watched a video on his website of a group of young people that he works with from all over the country, and we really. I feel that I really have a lot to learn from him, because here and all over the world, young people are having a really hard time with what's going on on earth, and we can fix it. And that's why it's so important that both one and dawn are here today. So, your turn, take it away. I want to welcome everyone here today and I'm so glad to be with one, my friend, my colleague. And I want to really want to invite everybody into an indigenous practice. So, as I was introduced I'm Don Nicklebacher and I belong to the Anishinaabe people from my earth nation called God, what Bob again a cog in my language. And right now, I am on the land of the Shawnee and the Miami people in Yellow Springs, Ohio. I'm in a place where the rivers merge and they come together to form great and nourishing waters for the people. I'm in a place where the stars shine brightly at light at night and the insects like the sky in the summer months. And in our traditional way we always introduce ourselves visiting guests and gracious hosts and we begin by naming our traditions, our places, our names. Sometimes today we call that a land acknowledgement. And I'll let Juan do tell us where he's coming from today. Thanks, John. Scaru payada to Nalaya fun. Welcome, everyone. My name is Juan Daniel Martinez Pineda. My mom is Alicia, and my dad is Daniel. My mom recites comes from the East moves that they want to pay in the mountains of Oaxaca, although sapotec people and in our ways we start with acknowledging each other, acknowledging our parents, and those who gave us life, and acknowledging the mountains from where we came from. And so that's, that was the East moves that they want to pay in Oaxaca. So welcome everyone and we invite you into this tradition and culture, as you explore and become familiar with that we all stand on native land. I stand today and I'm beaming to you from the land of the humannous and they call what they can people here in what is now named blank or that has but it is unseated territory from the native people as well too. It's beautiful in the Western tradition, people often start off with talking about what you do and your agenda your work, how you may extract resources. But instead, we want people to put in the comments where you are coming from his land you're on, who are your relatives. Who are your ancestors. So we'd love to see those comments. Today we want and I were going to have a conversation. We're going to talk about the work that we do. The model that we use as indigenous people to solve some of the crises that we're faced with today. We're going to talk about our economic and social exchanges that are different in our world view. And then we'll talk about what justice means. We're going to start off our conversation with the idea of conservation and environmentalism and justice and and what that really means to us as indigenous people. So, I guess I'll start off by saying that in our indigenous languages and our indigenous culture, there's no word for environmentalist or environmentalism. Those types of ideas and thoughts are embedded within all of our languages our origin stories. And who we are as people. So there was really not a need for that. There's some new words that have evolved over time in different communities, as we've had to face protection. But just to frame this conversation about what that means, we've now had to take up justice, meaning to make whole again to return to a place of indigeneity. So I'd like to open that question up one. What does environmental or conservation mean to you. Yeah, thanks Don and it's just beautiful to hear you reflect on that as well too and I think for me I always, as I was introduced to this concept of environment and environmentalism or conservationism. It always seemed odd to me that there was this wedge between between the two, like, or between us and something else. And for me, and in ways that my parents brought me up. There was never a separation of either wherever we went we still carried our seeds with us wherever we went even in the middle of South Central LA where I grew up in. We still found a way to set down roots and grow our crops in our medicine. And for me that that has always resonated unbeknownst to me that was part of the culture that they were passing on early on to me those years. Those were just chores that I had to do every weekend. Or clean, you know, make sure that the plants were watered and everything like that but but unconsciously and subconsciously they were passing on this, this culture tradition that's so ingrained into me now that home, wherever I go in this world, home, I have to plant, I have to put something into the ground so that so that I feel like it's it's there. And that to me has always brought me to this space of when people speak about the environment or about conserving something it's it's never it was never about conserving the land it was about conserving ourselves it was about conserving culture and traditions, and, and the dreams of our ancestors and, and those dreams still live in the trees and in the water and in the rivers and to separate the two just doesn't make any difference, even when early on, as, as, as in, as Mexico was being colonized, and there was a revolution of a native indigenous people to fight that the call to to to action was, the land and liberty, right, because the two go so hand in hand together that to us freedom means being connected to the land. I know I personally I grew up on a goat farm in the 70s and that's where I went to find my snacks and always always hands in the dirt, and also in interaction with animals and exploring the environment, having reference for the seeds and the plantings and the work, the work together that that was family life for me growing up and it was such an incredible gift. Later when we moved to urban areas, we kept a lot of that work with the land always having gardens and growing seeds and foods and moved to a place later when I was a preteen where I would forage and pick berries and make little tartlets for gifts when you know somebody needed comfort or help. You know talk with the bark on the trees and feel the textures of the earth, waiting through the water protecting the fish and the wildlife. That was the joy of my life was being outdoors. Even though we were pretty much in an urban area I found space. I was really fortunate. Many people don't don't have that. Now I think today, when we think about justice, and we think about what environmental racism looks like and how we're intersecting where we're at right now with racial reckoning movements. And the burdens that people have with access to the outdoors. We can think about power plants and pipelines being in close proximity to areas where there's predominantly people of color. We can look at highways with vehicles running through and dividing neighborhoods. We can look at people who are in flight paths where it's loud and difficult to breathe people not having access to green spaces to walk or to bike and to enjoy their time with their family and their friends. And we also see that there's a lot of privilege in people who are able to experience nature. People who are able to be outdoors to recharge with me time or some of the other terms that we hear right now. I mean it's really it's literally people of color. People who are sick and dying at higher rates because they have been exposed to the cumulative burdens of environmental racism. Yeah, I think I think that's environmental racism environmental justice to me looks is a lot about writing almost like an original wrong, and so many of our ancestors whether native and indigenous roots of African roots have been violently separated from our traditions and our lands and and when when we go back to thinking about those those are ancestors in our communities. The only thing that they always sought out was was water and food and and access to that and and where those communities settled was where you found some of the cleanest water and the most pristine communities around and the most abundant harvesting that was possible. And then, and then we were violently separated from that. And I think a lot of what environmental justice tries to do is to return to that mode of indigenous values of recognizing that we all need clean water and clean air and clean and access to food that we can actually touch with our own two hands and seeing our own backyards or windows. I think that a lot of that is really ancestral intuition almost and it is ingrained in us that we, we have to do that and so much of what has happened in the last century and and and millennia is is a lot of that disconnect and so, sometimes we have to interrogate we the history of the National Park Service or public lands and how that came to be and who was left out of who was literally pulled out of those spaces to create this version of a pristine community that was not touched by people, and, and I mean those words are literally written into into some of the, like you said, the Wilderness Act in 1964 land that is not touched by man, and you say that to a native and indigenous person, well, are you talking about a white man that hasn't touched it because we've been, we've been here for a long time. But, but yeah I think, I think I, you know, back to the point environments are just I think tries to write that original wrong. Yeah, and tell those stories in the accurate ways. Like, I'm reminded of like this wild movement. And some of the new movements that want to address things like climate change or they're still using those Eurocentric savior complex tools. When you erase the stories of the people, then you're not putting things wild at all. This place was not an Eden. This place had many gardens that also had problems. Some of like the greatest highways across this country were built by indigenous people. The villages that provided shelter and safety for settlers were built by indigenous people. The food, the seeds saved so many of our corn relatives would have been lost altogether, had not the people hid them in their cheeks. And that was a way to, to protect those sacred seeds. Many, many foods were lost, many were burned. And we have to recognize that we continue to save seeds, 80% of the world's biodiversity is held in the hands of indigenous people. And we take that as our sacred responsibility to keep passing seeds and foods and gifts and the bounty of nature in harmony with the people. Along to the next generation and generation and generation. You know, have you heard of like the seven generations? Yeah. You know, what you do today, they're going to experience there. We always have to think back. Yeah, just adding to that stream of thought as well. I think the pandemic raised a lot of that resilience. Like, you know, does when, when stores started closing and you get an access tomatoes or fresh food because there was the fear of the virus being transmitted to that how many people were able to go know how to, how to plant a seed and how to harvest and how to, how to track orange. Exactly, exactly. Very. And, and I think a lot of that is, is, is access to that knowledge access to those traditions. We, we can take a lot of that for granted now, because then a lot of people, many people that have the privilege to can walk into a store and buy organic, even if they can afford it. But many people don't even have access to a store near their neighborhood within a five mile radius. And there's such things that as food deserts right and why, how can, how does environment to justice address that I think there's there's a big movement around resilience and self reliant food and just are, you know, urban agriculture urban farming, these new trend setting things that have always been traditions for us in ways, and to us it's always been survival and tradition and culture to pass this on. So, so more of that right like more of that of centering indigenous values into environment justice like these are not new terms these are not new terminology these are not new ideas really they're grounded in the core core elements of who we are as people. Yeah, these are the values that, you know, we can live, we can live through. I want to, I want to know and ask you, what brought you into the revolution that you're now in and all of this incredible work that you do and founding press tracks and so for me, it. A lot of it starts almost like I mentioned early, what is is a knowingly theme in green and pass on a lot of a lot of values and culture from my parents, my mom and dad and so starting with them. And even remembering my grandma and the hot guy and the things that she would teach me back then. And so it's a lot of that it was always there. And then we, we migrated up to to the US and established an LA in South Central Los Angeles where I grew up. And that that that was really a place for me to, to write, I, I, I hard as my parents tried, I became disconnected, I, I just could not see a future for myself I became. I was lost for lack of words, and there was a pro program in my high school, where they ultimately if you end up in detention they give you an ultimatum you can either go stay in the tension or you can try out these alternative ways of serving your detention sentence. And one of those was our high school urban farming program called food from the hood. And that that automatically. snapped me back to the moment that my mom and dad were teaching me to care take for my plants at home. And I felt like such a screw up at that moment in my life that I felt like this is the one thing that I could do right. And so I dedicated myself to growing these jalapenos that I picked out, because I wanted to make salsa for my mom at the end. And then, after that, I just kept going back to school and then a lot of that just clicked it wasn't, it wasn't science it wasn't. It wasn't. It wasn't punishment for something that I was doing it was, it was rooting me back to to what my parents and the love that they had for me was able to do. And I went back to school I came back and really became something that I'm trying to do more of. And I got an opportunity to to visit the Teton science schools through one of my mentors Miss Glenda pep and she made an opportunity available to me and and the, the land of the Cheyenne up in up in Wyoming. And in that moment I when I when I got to see nature in that form in the world in that space. Something just clicked all of a sudden there was this love and passion and heart here in the middle of a river in the middle of mountains and back in LA in my community that that it just brought it all together and I had to figure out a way to encourage others to find their path. To that feeling as well to where they could feel connected to everything. And that's what I've been dedicating. I think the rest of my life to is to empower others to find their path forward in the best way for them. And for me, it was through through finding a connection by connecting those two dots. I think people will look different right and but but my value that carries me forward is to encourage others to find that path for them forward and, and that's how I ended up at Fresh Tracks and, and really centering, like Representative Ayanna Presley I said many times, those closest to the pain close to the power. And how do you, how do you really turn over some of that power over to them. How did you end up over here Don. How did you call it, raise action revolution. Yes. I mean, I mean, my was kind of similar to yours where it was rooted in childhood and the love of outdoors and, and the environment, my animals and that's where my friends and the plants that I cared for, but it was also some experiences that were lacking to me. I remember a time when I was young and going to one of my first cultural events. There was a pow wow in warm springs, and that's a reservation in Oregon, and it was just my dad and I, and we went I think I was probably 13 or so. I was told to go with some of the other women and go sit in a kind of a tent and watch for other people. And this was, you know, seven late 70s, early 80s, when my memory is going. So we're watching for people coming because the grownups were doing ceremony. And at that time it was still like not really legal. So we weren't really allowed to practice our culture until the 1978 Native American or American Indian Religious Freedom Act. I didn't know the laws at the time but I remember sitting in that little space, learning to weave baskets and being told about, you know, the secrets, and how we needed to keep ourselves secret. And how we needed to keep our culture secret. And it was such a special time being with those women and learning what I learned and the stories that we shared together. But it was also deeply sad that it was, it couldn't be done as just a regular person is just a part of who we are, like it had been before. You know, they all had stories of how it used to be okay, and how everybody used to be able to go. But now there were authorities who were on the lookout for this kind of bad ceremony. Anyway, that really impacted my view of how, as Indigenous people, we have the right to practice, we have the right to relationship with the earth and we have the right to stories. And I want to also say that I'm not going to reveal any, any sacred teachings tonight. I'm not a shaman. I'm not a mythical mystic person. I'm just a community member and I can't speak on behalf of all Native people, even though my tribe claims me I do not speak on behalf of all people. So anything that I share, I know this is true for you too, Juan, anything I share, I do it in a good way with an open heart. But also protecting the people who have given me the gifts and acknowledging the people who have taught me, my teachers before me. Yeah. Thanks for that reminder, Don. And yeah, we don't, we don't speak for all Native or and or Indigenous people. That's a major disclaimer upfront. I also just want to highlight that not because someone says they are Native or Indigenous does not mean that they speak for all Native and Indigenous people there are many different cultures, traditions, ceremonies, language, skin tones, ways of regalia and dressing. So because you've met one Native person or one Indigenous person, it does not mean that you've met at the whole sector. You know, if you're related to a Native person or an Indigenous person, it does not mean you speak for all Native or Indigenous people. And I think that's something that's almost ingrained in all Native people is that we speak from the heart, from our heart and the teachings that we've been blessed to have and carry with us. But that does not mean that we know everything or know everyone. There's lots to learn. And I think that that that's one trick, like that's one value that's been ingrained into me that I am constantly in mode of learning and continuously looking to understand and learn from everything and everyone. And I think that's almost a perfect segue into our next part, which is, you know, how can others engage in this work and what can we encourage our viewers here today to practice and engage with. So Don, any thoughts on that? Yeah, I do. I mean, first of all, we need to center Indigenous wisdom. And I know that that probably means too many people in the audience or who are listening to this at a later time that that maybe they aren't Indigenous. And so that means that they can't participate in this kind of wisdom, but that's not necessarily true. I was told a story. Actually several times I was told this story for different people in little bit different ways. And so I feel like it's okay for me to share it now is that there's kind of this way that we think about ourselves as Anishinaabe people as Ojibwe people that long ago it was told that we would go out into the world and we would start to lose a lot of our practices and our language and our way of life and our ability to be within our community. We'd be extracted and pulled further and further out into the world with so much loss, but there would come a time when we would start to return to our ways we would learn our languages again. Our languages that held the sacred teachings of our plant relatives and our animal brothers and sisters and our moons and our rhythms, and then we would start to come closer and closer back to our original knowings and ways to be in relationship with the earth. But this time, we wouldn't be alone. This time, we would have people beside us. And I'm reminded by different people who work in the scientists realm and the sciences that it takes no 10 to 12 generations for somebody's DNA to transform into relationship with the land that they're on. And so we're at a point in many different places in the world that have been colonized, where people are now biologically connected to the land that they're on, and that they now have the sacred responsibility with them within them as well. But they do need to reach back and find those sacred instructions to also share that with other people to use privilege in a different way to make sure that they're not just retreating for themselves. They're not just giving to other people but instead they're sharing. So build your own awareness. Your awareness of your own indigeneity but also listen to indigenous leaders. Yeah, my grandpa do we see is to say two ears one mouth, we listen twice as much as we speak. I'm sure he's not the only grandpa to ever say that. Yeah, go ahead. I was going to share. I think for sometimes there's this entitlement that comes with being exposed to certain traditions or ceremonies are invited to or or gaining access to certain amount of knowledge. It does not mean that you have to share it it does not mean that you have to portray it or adapt it to your own way. I think there's a lot of. I grew up with a lot of recognizing the level of my elders and seeking out permission and recognition from them to be able to do something and carry those traditions forward. It's not like a you put in an application and then you get an approval stamp. It is. It is one of the hardest things for me to understand especially as I as I became integrated into into this US society US centric society or Euro centric society where things are like that you know you put an application get your driver's license and you're an adult right or a version of an adult. But, but for me it was, it was very much like waiting for the right time and waiting to be told. Okay, you can do this or okay you can be the one who uncovers the the beauty out from the from the center of the of the cookout for for our traditions like our big traditions are big, you know, family gatherings like we we cook and put either goat or or or beef into into the earth and let it cook and calls and that's a tradition that is, you know, goes way back. And it's passed on and there's, there's obviously there's people who can teach you about it now but in the way I learned it was very much being being in there and in ceremony with my, my family. And, you know, there's, there's those kind of moments where it's like, you have to be invited, and you know the little kids couldn't come in yet, like they have to go play, and if you got nearby you got, you got scolded. But, but there are, there are so many of those traditions that I think as we center and explore our own history and our own life. We start to recognize what those traditions are and what that culture is and I encourage each of you to explore those traditions and cultures that have not to start some of your own and you know, you know, to a lot of people that I know now, it's no longer about Thanksgiving it's about recognition recognizing the land and the people on that day, and the native land that you stand on and there's a whole movement that's happening around that moment as well too and recognizing the celebration of what has been one of the original wrongs of this country as it was built. Yeah, truth telling, I think that that's one of the most important things people can do. You know we talk a lot about reconciliation as part of healing, but we should recognize that that assumes that there was a good relationship to return to. And so sometimes it's not a reconciliation that is needed but instead it is a truth telling, and it is opening up of healing. It's appreciating the authority of indigenous wisdom. You wouldn't believe how many times I've been invited to say what other people want me to say. I don't want to say what other people want me to say I really have to speak from the heart and sometimes it's not. You know I'm very anti racist, and that work can be radical. I believe it as the original definition of radical in the English language which I think was like from the 1400s or something which means of the root. It means that it's in the ground it's changing things from where it begins. That's the radical change we need. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, and there's power in words to I mean I am learning my traditions and my cultures and really, really leaning into my indigenous identity, 30 years into my life, the life right like I, I, I always knew there was a connection with with my mom and and my but up until and I always wanted to learn the language but one of the things that I started doing the pandemic was really to lean into the language and start to keep that language alive. In those traditions and lean into my indigenous identity as part of who I am and really learning who I am at credit you as part of, you know, helping me guide that and Nikki Petrie at the Center for Native American youth and part of my mentors to like really allow me to enter that space and say, yeah, I am indigenous there is part of me in this identity in this space that that belongs here and and and once you once you learn that and really take the time to learn and to listen and to know the ways of I mean they're so universal and and I think it also brings about this this this this way of decolonizing the ways that we're we're thinking about this space as well too and so it's impacted my own lens of work because I'm realizing the way that we've been doing I think it's just rooting again the radical mentality of what we've been talking about and and talking about how we can start to look beyond what we know now and what has been done in the past to really look seven generations down and and and not know exactly what what that seven generation is going to do with the seat that we plant today. Knowing that we've done our part to to to set them up for success and thrive in their livelihood and I think that that that paradigm of life. We have to measure success by every quarter, we have to measure success by return on investments, or we have to measure success by amount of impact is something that I think in our in our shared work, we're starting to really turn into and start to invite more of that thinking and critical critical creation of and co creation of what is basically like that can look like. Right. Yeah, we're changing how resources are delivered and accepted and shared with communities that's the big work we are doing together. I'm looking at the clock. And let's invite Adam back into conversation with us to see if he has some questions from our audience and love to hear his thoughts. Hi Adam. Hi. I could tell you my thoughts but that would take hours. So, so I'll start with some other people's questions. How do we support stewardship and reciprocal relationships in our urban parks and community growing spaces with folks of all ages. I can talk a little bit about that. So the reciprocal relationship is present in everything. We, we see everything around us we can't, we don't live in a vacuum. So, coming from that viewpoint understanding that we are the earth that we are our environment that we have the deep responsibility of the people who live in these urban spaces who are packed together. So, the least of us are the most important, they reflect who we really are. And so, to be reciprocal is to get to know the people where they're at. My own work. Part of the Greater Cincinnati Native American Coalition we have 12 urban garden beds that we put up during the pandemic. And we've used a number of volunteers and then we've delivered indigenous foods to the local schools that are that are near. And so, when I think about urban spaces and engaging with communities. I think about being very super hyper local and understanding in concentric circles what is around you. What do you have and resources in your own environment and care for that. And then go further and further out from yourself, and really deeply understand what you have and what you have a relationship to both grateful and giving. That's how you practice reciprocity giving. Well, really that when you are, when you're doing both of those things that's actually, I think, vine Gloria wrote about it in the 1960s. It's, you know, the indigenous practice isn't as much giving because that's kind of a power situation, but it is the sharing. You are acting in with respect and dignity for those around you even those in need, need deep dignity. So I do like the word sharing more than giving myself. And one of the things about that that strikes me is that when you do that. You have no idea what you've started and we're in terms of where it's going and and it's magic. Yeah, in a way how it just is carried all over when people are inspired. Yeah, I think, in addition, you know, when I think about magic I think about spiritual. And I think that to me is spiritual like the exchange of ideas the exchange of caring and love and caretaking. That that that is spiritual and I think the moment when you don't know what's going to happen with it, like, or what is going to be done with it that that's a lot of trust that has to happen for for that for for native people and I think, you know, you look at the history there's a lot of mistrust and a lot of trust that has been broken and people question I think when I've heard the question post me about like well why don't you X, Y and Z. It's like because the trust is not there, you haven't built the trust to begin with for the caring and the giving or the sharing to happen. I think representative of that is when you watch. You know, just kind of symbolic in a way is that the plots that you see on Netflix are all about mistrust the entire movie industry would fall apart if people actually trusted each other. Yeah, that's such an excellent, excellent point. And I want to say to add on to that, that when we think about leadership, even within the movies. Leadership is not ever present in any of those movies that show strong leaders, because those leaders are always like in crisis and they're going to solve something real leadership. This is in indigenous wisdom. Real leadership is boring. It is like everybody is at peace. That's because your leader has been supporting you this whole time. Like the stories of indigenous leadership would be so boring it would never make Netflix would be like, Hey, where's, where's, where's the chief today. Oh, he's taken a nap. Okay. He can not because his people are at peace. His people are fed his people have homes his people have love his people have community they have food they have clean water. That's leadership. Yeah, and a life without conflict is almost unimaginable. In, in Western culture. Okay, we have a question about what are some national or regional organizations or businesses that would be good for an aspiring ally to volunteer or support. That's a good one. My, my first, my always to the top of the mind is eighth generation. So it is a native native own native run company up in up in a base out of Seattle, Washington, but they do a lot of work, and they're there. Their whole slogan is native inspired native native inspired. Yeah. Definitely encourage you to check out their their website they do amazing work and a lot of great work. There are other organizations to consider beyond Don's amazing work at the national scale through National Native American philanthropy Center for Native American youth is is another one that I would highly advocate for to for people to check out. For youth project. There's a lot. Yeah, we can do a whole list and and do a lot but these are some of the names that come to the top here about amazing people doing amazing great work out there. It'll be a resource. Okay. I have a question about what are the most pressing climate and racial justice issues in Massachusetts, which is not quite a fair question for the two of you, since you're not in Massachusetts, but maybe you can give a kind of a broader perspective on that. Yeah, you know, climate is not the weather so whatever's happening in Massachusetts, it's happening on the planet. Yeah. Oh it's really weird here. I mean, the past three weeks, it'll be 90 degrees then the next day it'll be 60 degrees, and then up to 90 and then, you know, a real roller coaster ride. And what I would say, what I would say is is that I think certainly from the rising generation and I see it everywhere that I work in and that's sometimes we we as the current generation and leadership and sometimes, you know, as elders now, we tend to draw the in pictures of like what the situation is right now or what it can be. And I think for for me, the one message that I would share is to look at the rising generation and to make sure that they know that there's a there's that they they're not the leaders tomorrow there's a leaders that today that they have a lot to contribute to make sure that those those things don't happen. I remember that Dr King did not say he had a nightmare, he didn't draw out a nightmare for us, he said I have a dream, and he drew beautiful mountains and put people in those mountains towards the arc of justice. So we need, we need to do a better job at drawing out, drawing out and painting those streams so others can see themselves in it especially the rising generation. Yeah. Yeah, please. Okay, one last question. What indigenous insights can we adapt for growing and distributing food in a way to help heal people and the earth. Well, we should, we should talk about, and we should actually address the basis, basic cause of the issues, including climate change which is drum roll extractive and settler colonialism which sees the earth itself as a resource including people of color and people of culture with as resources to be mind. And we are all in trouble. If we allow systemic the systemic genocide of the earth's indigenous caretakers to vanish. Number one, we must center our indigenous wisdom, we must look to the indigenous leaders in this moment. And as one said, a lot of that knowledge is within the bones of the youth who have that and they have the energy to carry that on. I know that there's an organization up in Minnesota, they're rebuilding after some of what happened during the George Floyd protests. They're called natives, and it's run by Sean Sherman he's trying to help bring food and seed back to the people supporting native farmers and. It's a great place to connect. But it's, it's really supporting the indigenous people, being able to be in public again, being able to be who they are. Imagine that. I think we have time for one more. One. Is there a place for intergenerational households in the world we live in now, in order to continue passing down traditions and culture with the added benefit of addressing housing shortages and homelessness. The idea itself is an indigenous value right like this, this idea that you had to separate family into different households I mean yeah like it's a practice but but intergenerational households were a lot more common in the original ways and then they are now and so. Yeah, I think that that's that's certainly a space to reconsider it and we're seeing almost like a reflection of that with many. Many younger professionals having to live at home because one they can't afford to because the current situations economic colonialism and you know Eurocentric ways of doing things. And now you have you find yourself like oh yeah this feels kind of good this feels right and there's there's family and love and traditions to be passed on as well too. So yes I think that there is there is there's space and there's a reality as well there too to observe and say how we're going actually we're going back to some of those indigenous ways. Okay, well, I'm afraid we're out of time just about. I think both of you. You know, I love you both now. And it's, I'm not used to declaring those kinds of things in public although I have at times, but you're, you're filling me with. Peace that I need the work that I do. And I'll put in the plug for biodiversity for livable climate here, the work that I do is really stressful. It's seven days a week. I'm not good at taking time off. I need moments like this and I appreciate moments like this, and I hope I learn to be able to share moments like this. I almost said good don't give moments like this, but I caught myself. So you're making progress with one person at least. And, yeah, and it's important for the people who the other people who work at bio for climate that I do this, because what I do affects what they do and vice versa. So, and I just want to say something about our organization. Biodiversity for livable climate is an on profit. And we are delighted to be presenting this life saves the planet series. And we specialize in good news. So if you want doom and gloom, I'm afraid you'll have to go somewhere else, because what we see around the world. I mean, you get this noise from the western media that just, oh my God, this and oh my God, that and will never make it. And, meanwhile, there are millions of people around the world, largely indigenous, who are tending to their little piece of the earth and regenerating and figuring out how to get more water and and to teach their neighbors. I mean, literally millions of people, you probably know of La Via Campesina, which is an international organization of peasants movement. They represent 200 million small holder farmers, and they advocate for the rights of women and the rights of girls and for a generative agriculture and all kinds of land and seed sovereignty. Paula reminds me, and it's, it's, there is so much good news out there. It's, it's like, you're walking around in this psychotic world doom and gloom. Oh, good news, but the good news, you know, it gets out shouted and so our job is to bring it, bring it back to the people so again, thank you so much for joining us. I look forward to future conversations. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Adam. Thank you everyone. See you tomorrow one.