 The Coalition of Northern Groups attacks Southern Governors saying its resolutions are a conspiracy against the NOS. And a federal High Court vindicate Kemi Adoshun says the ex-Minister was ineligible for NYSC. This is Plus Politics and I am Mary Anacorn. The Coalition of Northern Groups CNG has responded to the statement by the Southern Governors that the next president should come from the Southern Region. It said while the NOS may not be opposed to the democratic transfer of power to any competent person from any section of the country, the NOS will not support power moving to zones of those who are using threats, violence and falsehood as a means of political power. The NOS in Coalition in a statement signed by spokesperson Abdulaziz Suleiman noted that, and I quote, the gang up against the NOS to force a regional shift of the presidency in 2023 is clearly undemocratic. Well joining us to have this conversation is Eugene Ables, Executive of Extras Dept. And also we have Shigul Mosa Gabam, he is the National Secretary of the Social Democratic Party, SDP, and also joining us is Chike Chude, he is a public affairs analyst. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. Thank you. All right, so I'm going to start with Mr Gabam because obviously this is a reaction coming from the Northern Coalition. Apparently after the Southern Governors met and released a communique. So let's look at the first thing. They're accusing the Southern Governors of shielding felons, arsonists and mass atrocity perpetrators in the midst, in their midst, by challenging the perigative of the federal government to enforce law and order in all parts of the country. What are your thoughts on this statement? Well first and foremost, every group have the right to react to what the Governors have said to the presidency of the Southern Government. And I want to say that this is not the first time such meetings have been taken place. Politically speaking, it is undemocratic. We have tried it in 1999 and one of those who went to court to stop zoning and allow every citizen of Nigeria who is competent, who is eligible to contest for any office in Nigeria. And of course the court granted that you cannot discriminate against anybody. It's a spring court judge. And the behavior and the way and the manner the Governors have displayed their decision is sound as if we are in a military juncture. Politics is about consultations. It's about an internal affairs of political parties to decide what to zone or what not to zone. It's about consultation. It's about mediation. It's about giving everybody a sense of respect and a sense of understanding. But the way and the manner the issues have been coming out is clear that the Governors are the problem of Nigeria. Actually all of them are responsible for what is going on. The Governors are responsible for creating a lot of discrimination in their own states. They are responsible for some of the anarchies that are taking place in their own states. They are responsible for defunding local government, killing local government in their own states. They are responsible for defunding state assembly, defunding state judiciary. They are equally responsible for most of the segregation and the crisis all over the country. So for me, the biggest thing that Nigeria has is the Governors of Nigeria as a whole. Not just the Southern Governors. But like I have said, democracy is about consultation. And it is not the Governors that are going to cancel our votes. It's that even Nigerians have... It's not possible. It cannot work. It's not going to work. In 1999, which I was a founding member of PDP, we agreed by consensus, you know, that the power should shift to the sideways in order to appease the issue of June 12th. It was a consensus decision. It wasn't co-has on anybody. And for the Governors, who went through the process of election, they were democratically elected, segregated against citizens of Nigeria that are domiciled in their own state, denied them certain privilege as Nigerians in their own states. Let me just come in there. The issue of zoning is not just a Southern issue. There's been zoning in different political parties. I don't know if you can still hear me, but I think we lost you for a second there. I'm happy. Great. The issue of zoning is not a thing that has just cropped up upon us. We've heard of zoning over and over again. And why should the Northern coalition feel that the fact that the South is asking for power to come to it is a gang up against the North? Why would that feeling come about in any way? The North has had power zoned to it over and over again. So why would it be a problem? And I'm just asking out of curiosity, why this would be like it is a gang up of sorts against the North? It's simply because the language they use was wrong. They use a very wrong language of communicating their community or their resolutions. You cannot run anybody out in the democracy. You have to dialogue it out. It's by discussion. It's by understanding. But when you use a very vulgar language on people, they have the right... What exactly is this vulgar language to borrow your words? What exactly is the word? What is the thing that is abhorrents to you and the people in the Northern coalition that you think is what would make it sound like a gang up? It's very simple. Like I have said, we have practiced zoning by consensus or by understanding. It wasn't imposed on anybody. So for the governors who were elected, and for our own knowledge, this government, PGP and the APC, both of them belongs to a political party. They need to have a consensus within their political parties. And then once... And their parties agreed, there was no distance to South as a whole, or to the Southwest, or to the Southeast, or to the South-South. What is remaining is lobbyist, you know, others to agree to support what their parties have agreed. But you cannot say it as if you are going to enforce it at all costs. There must be a democratic language of communicating the issues. There are a lot of issues that are involved. I've not read through all what the Northern Policies have said. I'm talking to you as a party man, as a politician who have the right to exercise my franchise, and nobody can deny me from doing that. In PGP, like I've said, it was a consensus thing to zoning to the Southwest to be specific in 1999. And there was no much issue on that. The governors feel that they can impose their will on others if political parties... They have not worked within their own party internally. They are coming up with language and calling it must, and other things. There cannot be must, and there will never be must, where democracy have come to stay. Interesting. So you would rather that the governor say we would like for power to be zoned to the South, instead of saying power must be zoned to the South. So is this an issue of semantics? Or maybe you think that feathers have been ruffled because of the word must? Language at all times is a call. When you like proper way of communicating particularly, it generates issues. It generates debate. It generates unnecessary controversy. Like I said, the governors were elected. Even in their states, as I'm talking to you, were denied from minorities in their states to wipe out governors within their own states. It's about reaching out to their own political parties, discuss, agree within their own political parties, lobby that look, this time around, has to be zoned to a particular zone, or to the whole of the South. If you go into the whole of the South, it's not for the whole of the South to decide which zone in the whole of the South should take the president either the South West, or South East, or South South. That is the way it is. But you cannot use the wrong language and think of taking people, or you will eliminate people out at all costs. It has never happened. It will not happen. Okay. Let me go to Eugene. Eugene, can you please unmute your mic so that you can answer me? I'm going to go again to what the coalition said. And I'd like to quote them. They say there has been a gang up against the North, in particular, to force a regional shift of the presidency in 2023 by whatever means and tactics. So I want to ask you, Eugene, because you must have seen the communique that was released by the southern governors. What exactly is wrong with the demand for zoning to the South? By these governors. Is this an issue of semantics again? Just like Shayhu has said. Eugene. Well, thank you for having me. Yes, it's all politics. And the season, the festivities of politicking has begun. And even the reaction of the coalition of Northam groups, it's also part of the dance. Everybody is seeking for attention and for relevance. In our constitution, the principle of rotation is a shrine in the concept of federal character. We try, even in an imperfect situation, to try to reach everybody. So all the drama you are seeing and hearing are typical of our traditions and the way we play politics. So I don't think anybody should lose any sleep about it. I listened to my brother Shayhu. And Shayhu said the language he used is on becoming. He's also said that it's a gang up. Politics is about interest. While the southern governors are making that statement, Governor Zulem is meeting with Tinnibu. It's all about interest. Even my brother Shayhu is also, his thought transits, is also designed to get attention to him. So I don't think we should lose sleep about it. I don't think they used any language that has not been used before. It's about interest. And the aggregation of interest begins from the family, to the south, to regions and so on. This is how we play politics. The political parties have also enshrined it, even in an unwritten form whereby they show that we never have the Muslim-Muslim ticket or a Christian-Christian ticket or two candidates that come from one part of the Jehovah's Divide of our nation. So my dear, my colleagues and brethren here, I don't think we should lose any sleep about this. I think for me, what I should expect in this time, in respect of colors or ethnicity, I should expect people trying to outdo performance by the likes of Zulem. I should expect people to comfort, to begin to show their credentials of the stuff they made of, not by virtue of qualification, but by virtue of their accomplishments over the years on the existence in this political Nigeria. Please, it's not important for now. Let me come to you, Achike Trude. The Northern Group said, and I quote, the governor's resolutions on 2023 has expressed a deliberate attempt to impose a contentious system of rotational presidency aimed at achieving dubious political goals to weaken the North, on the line the word weekend. So how does power rotation or a zoning amount to weakening the North? Can the same be said about the North because they're in power right now? Is the South weak because we have a Norse in power? Help me make it make sense. It's a good question you're asking because that is the presupposition unless it is going to be said that because the arrangement that favored the president in 2015 and 2019 was not imposed, was as a result of consensus, therefore it did not weaken the South. But the reality is that the entire Nigerian state has been weakened by the presidency of President Muhammad Buhari and not just him, even beyond him, because you ask yourself, after 60 years of independence, what have we got going for us in this country? The country is in shambles. There is insecurity everywhere. The state has lost the ability to protect itself. Neither can it protect its citizens. Students are being kidnapped everywhere. So if that is not a weakening of the Nigerian state entirely, whether North and South, I don't know what else is weakening. And so we must understand even the concept of political power. What is the basis of essential to political power in this country that the primary duty and responsibility of the state is the protection of the lives of the people and the improvement on the welfare of the people. And so when you have a political system that neither does all of this things and instead weakens the entire structure, which the Nigerian Federation stands, then that is a system itself that has to be gotten rid of. Let us even stop at that. But I think beyond this is the fact that the worry of the Northern Coalition, because again when you talk about the Northern Coalition, it's even contentious. Is it the Northern Coalition of the entire 19 states in the North? You must address the critical contradictions in the Nigerian state that has led us to where we are. But I think beyond that, what is even worrying is the fact I suspect that for the first time, the Southern Governors are meeting, doing what their Northern counterparts have done over the years and that people were very satisfied with. People did not have any issue with that because politics is about power. Sometimes it's a game of number also. And so the South met the very first time and it became a problem. Now they have met again and yet it is still a problem. So I do not think that there is an attempt to impose, because ultimately when you say the Northern Governors want to impose, how are they going to impose? They are only going to do whatever they are going to do through a political process. You have the National, the Independent National Electoral Commission that has been mandated by law to conduct elections. And so when the Northern Governors, I mean when this coalition who says they want to impose, there is no way they are going to, but so they can do any such position. So I agree with my friend, ultimately, it is about politics. But beyond that is that we need to begin to look at how we can build a country that works. This is not about the North or about the South. The Nigerian state in its entirety is completely very weak. And so if we want to make that the argument about witness and the rest, we could say for instance, people have often talked about the fact that we do not need, we are not going to allow a certain presidency. Are we going to say that that is an attempt to force anybody to ensure that the presidency remains in the North? We've had that even the Northern Elders at the time made that statement that power is not going to go to the South. That is part of the negotiation process. And what two other things I want to say, the wonderful thing about even what is going on is that you have Governors from both sides of the divide, from both political parties. The party in power today, that is the APC and the major opposition party, that is the PDP, all singing the same tune. So that tells you that there must be something fundamental. If Governors of the APC cannot sit down with their own party and they say, look, let us have a certain president this time around. That means that there is a dysfunctionality within the APC itself. And besides, zoning is not an imposition. Zoning is something that has been agreed on, even though it is not constitutional, but I think Eugene in a way touched it indirectly when he talks about the essence of federal character. You understand? So it's also in a way indirectly about power, presidential power touching every part of this country. That is the only way you can have some level of harmony within the polity. So zoning is something that was already agreed through collective bargaining by the political elites in this country. And so it is a given that once a region of this country has excise power, they must go back to the other region. For me, ultimately, I round up by saying, what kind of power are they exercising? Is it power that has been exercised on behalf of the Nigerian people, or is it power that has laid the Nigerian state prostrate today, like what we have under the present administration of Harry? Let me go back to Mr. Shaywoo Gabam. Just to come from where Achike Trude is coming from, do you think that maybe the reason why the governors in the south seem to be in alliance, because like you said earlier on, they're both from the platforms of the PDP and the APC, but then they are all in consonance agreeing on a particular thing. Do you think that maybe the reason why they're doing this is because there have been several agitations. We've seen non-state actors like Kano, we've seen non-state actors like Boho rise up, and they're all speaking in almost the same voice. They're all agitating because, in quote, they think that they've been getting the short end of the stick in terms of being carried along. Do you think that maybe that's why the governors are saying, maybe we should have a southern governor. Maybe we want to appease our people. Let's see how good a southern governor. And then let's not forget, it's a southern governor. It will now be held on the parties to decide whether it will be from the southwest or the south-south or the southeast, but then they're asking for a southern president, I beg your pardon. So again, could it be because of the agitations and that maybe they want to one way or the other pacify the people in their regions? Well, first of all, let me say that all of us are talking about politics. And politics is tied with what is talking about is defined by the regional interest, ethnic interest, and so on and so forth. Number two, against agitation. Absolutely. What agitation, build a nation, make it stronger, and of course, try it problematic to be corrected. So there's nothing wrong. The only problem with agitation is they have gone into to lead into, you know, taking life of natural damage and so on and so forth. But if people can act on something that is good for the country, good for their people, that's not wrong. So I'm not like an absurdity. But what I'm saying is that in the democratic where people have their air, they have built, people have the right. And there are subjects to discussions and agreement and disagreement. The greater wisdom will prevail. What national interest? What do we do to balance issues that deal with or short changing a particular region? There's no part of this country or part of region that have not been short changed in one way or the other. Every region has its own shortfall. So what for the governors who are elected? And supposedly, they're supposed to think better than other people because they are governing millions of people in their own state. So their ability to rationalize issues that are psychologically very touching and appealing is very key when you see a governor talking outside the normal. When you see in what he says in the public domain, completely, it affects the stability of the system completely, separately. Some of these governors are the worst governors to offer. They are very unremovable, very un-diplomatic. They don't know how to challenge their issues. So you seem to have a problem with the governors. You seem not to necessarily be addressing what the Northern Coalition is saying. You just feel that the governors are the problem of this country. They know them well. But then if the people that you think are the problem of the country are in their own way, I mean, they might think that they're wise, of course, and they say that, well, let's do this to appease our people because you're saying they're the problem. Now, they're saying this is a solution that we're thinking of and we think that this will help solve the problems that we're facing as a country. But you seem to particularly say these governors are a problem. Do you really have a problem with the governors? I'm just curious. No, no, no, no. You see, we are in the nation. And we're in that issues we are having today is because one of the analysts have studied completely un-comprehensive factors all of us are the people because they're mis-governors. And if you don't address mis-governors, you cannot address issues of agitation and so on and so forth. But because there are mis-governors from the government, they are on the community level. There are consequences. These are the consequences we are talking about. If during Shagari, there's a utilization of the sense of belonging, things were balanced. You have not had this problem that you have today. So let me ask you the issue of banditry that we have. Is it the governors of the south that have, or the south-west that have caused the issue of banditry? The issue of kidnappings that we're facing as a country. Is it the governors that are responsible? I just need you to help me answer that. All of the problems that we're facing now, aside from the issue of mis-governance, but I want to tie it to that, is that, is it the governors that are responsible for all of the banditry, the killings, Boko Haram? Is it the governors? Yes. Please give me examples, and can you name these governors that you think are responsible for banditry, for kidnapping, for Boko Haram? Obviously, you should listen to me. I've been in government. Yeah, I just need names. I just need names, facts. Just give me that information, please. Human perspective. Even the Boko Haram politically motivated, there's investigation to that effect. People feel that they were not carrying along. They started assembling, started threatening the state, and the governors were not doing anything at the chief duty officers of the state. And all the crimes happened in the state, why you have elected governors. So if that possibility from the governor, you know, to do the needful, he advocated his job in the state, some knowledge. Yes, President Buhari is the president and commander in chief, but also the constitution empowers governors to ensure peace with their respective states. Do the governors command the police? Do the governors command the army, the navy? Do they have the powers to do that? So you cannot direct a governor when you are looking for a solution to a very peaceful society where law and order, where agency, employment and orders should take place. What I'm saying is they take the last bulk of the play, but also the governor's most taken responsibility in destabilizing the states. All right, I need to quickly go to Eugene and Chike before we wrap this up. So I'll go to Eugene. The concept of one Nigeria means that whatever choices we're making, wherever power decides to go or if there had been an agreement that, you know, this time it would go, in 2021 it would go to this person and in 2023 it would go to that person. That's the idea of the federal character and the one Nigeria. But that concept, that idea, does it really hold water in this country? Yeah, the concept of one Nigeria is a carryover of the civil war whereby we believe that we must remain united as a nation. It's a nation of over 450 ethnic nationalities and there's nothing wrong in it. Recently we've seen the Euro 2021 going on, Euro 2020 going on and a particular nation united, United Kingdom. While others are coming with one team, one technical crew and so on, there came with three teams, three technical, everything they came with three, United Kingdom. So everything can be used positively the way you want depending on how you apply it. Now, for us, we like to mount, we like to mount cliches, one Nigeria, not divide, South divide. Now the question is this, prior to now we had a certain governor, have we done an assessment what were the benefits to the nation besides the southern people? If we bring it up not now, yes please. Yes. As the northern president, I would like to expect that we should begin to do a cost-benefit analysis of what have come, what has been the exceptional indices or growths or development indices or benefits of accrued to the north. Is the north more cohesive? But the north is more divided than it used to be. That's why the power has resided within the past six years. So these cliches, the politicians will keep inventing them. But in real, when we place them side by side against performance indices, key performance indices, the amount to nothing. I think it's inconsequential for a group of adults to begin to talk about what a group of people who have a common interest have decided to speak about. That look, we need to have the power back to the south. There's nothing wrong with it. I think we are wasting very important time. Now, we need to begin to have the conversations about do we need to allow these politicians to lead the narrative? They lead it and they lead it negatively. The elections are over. We can't suffer. All of this will fizzle away and the public should have been led by the north. We cannot continue to allow this movement to miss. They are misleading us. It's all Bobo-Juice, no substance. Nobody is discussing any form of substance. In 1980, when I was in university, the concept of development was just a sentence. You could define it with a sentence. Today, the concept of development, sustainable as we had it, it's a whole paragraph. That's where the world is. We can do a whole show on it, I'm guessing. Yes, and today, children in the north can't even go to school. Four of us here were discussing this because people are hitting up the politics with very inflammatory statements. Politics that are interests. Okay. Within marriages, politics. Within siblings, politics. Within the family, politics. Interest must be aggregated. Okay. All right. Just to follow up on what Eugene has said. Going forward, how do we chart the class for the conversations? How do we change the narrative? Because politics, like he has said, is about interest, and everybody does have an interest. But the lowest interest, or the interest that is the least important or least prioritized is the interest of the people. How do we bring that back up to the top of the priority list in closing? Where I would disagree with Eugene is when he says that ultimately at the end of the day, after the elections, the politicians go back to doing what they are used to doing and all that. But we do not understand that there is a greater sense of urgency in this country than we have ever had, apart from the period of the Civil War, leading to the Civil War and during the Civil War years. Nigeria is in a debt-like situation, in a debt-like grip today. The existence of the Nigerian federation is threatened. And if you look at what I think is the Council of States, Council of Foreign Relations, if the United States said some time ago that Nigeria was once a weak state, now Nigeria is a failed state. So you have, in the order of status of states in the war today, you have a strong state, you have a weak state somewhere along the line and then you have a collapsed state. Maybe about four, you have a collapsed state. Nigeria is a weak state today and that's why I said we can either defend ourselves, not defend the state, can either defend itself or defend its people. And so you have, for instance, a United Nations survey recently indicated that in the North East alone about 350,000 people had died. You are not just talking about the number of people in the Northwest. So, and then all the crisis that's going on in the south of this country, we cannot afford to delay anymore because delay time is not on our side. Almost anybody you talk to will tell you today that we're in a state of fear and uncertainty. Nobody knows what is going to happen. There was once a Somalia and we must understand that there was once a Rwanda before the genocide. It is situations such as these that led to the crisis of, I mean, of the misgovernance we saw in Somalia that eventually made Somalia a no-man's land option today. You know, then of course we know what happened in Rwanda. In a space of 90 days about a million people had died, about 10,000 people on a daily basis. This is the level that we're in. So this is not just about North and South or East and West. It's about humanity, our humanity. And it's about our corporate existence as a country. And that the political class unfortunately has failed this country badly. Especially the government at the center. All of these things that we're talking about today, the statements the rhetoric by the Southern Governors as well as the response by the Northern Coalition that we're talking about is all as a result of the unprecedented level of incompetence in governance that has taken place in the past six years. We have never been so divided. Look, it is not as if past presidents of this country did not have their four clients. But what has happened is that I mean there was the oldest operated act there was always a limit to how they did things in terms of appointment, in terms of approach to governance. Unfortunately, it's like the break system has been removed from this government. And they have gone all out. It doesn't matter. And so there is so much fear. There's so much distrust. One ethnic group against the other ethnic group. And so in such an unprecedented manner the North and the South, all of them it's not as if they did not exist for a long time, but I said it was managed. Just today, I read in the papers that the former governor of Kaduna State, Tabuba Kuomai blamed the present occupier of office in Abuja of mismanaging the diversity of this country. This is why the Southern Governors are making this statement. So you must provide the context that this government was made by the Southern Governors. All right. Well, a ticket today is a public affairs analyst Shehul Musa Gabam is the national secretary of the Social Democratic Party SDP and Eugene Abels is an executive of Extra Step. Thank you gentlemen for being part of this conversation. Thank you. All right. Well, we'll take a short break and when we come back apparently the federal court has indicated a former minister of finance will get to find out the details after this break.