 Okay, I've been doing it for so many years that I forget like whatever it is. I don't have to know everything anymore So should we kick it off? Mark is gonna call in marks on okay a mark So we need to wait for John. We're just waiting for a quorum We do Okay, right. We're waiting for one more person. He's getting up there He's almost 13 and I thought he was going to decline much faster than he is because there was a period in which he was getting Slower and that sort of thing. Yeah, but that seems to have plateaued. Nice. Nice. Nice It's hard when they get older. Just watch that talk about getting older folks So if I have any questions, I'll ask you yeah Your next meeting I will be yet another year older. Oh my goodness. Yeah, happy birthday What are you like 45 now, Sue a little short of double that 84 Just just watch it. Yeah, congratulations. Well, we were talking about dogs. Oh Okay. Yeah If you'd like to get started John will come out Good evening Welcome to the South Burlington Development Review Board for May 2nd 2023 my name is Don Filibert I am chair of the board and I'd like to introduce the other members of the board who are here tonight Quinn man John Mascatelli And on the phone we have Mark bear and We have our city staff with us our planning and zoning staff Marty Gillies and Marlekeen, so thank you for being here this meeting is being recorded and I Would like to remind you if you're here in person to sign up at the sign-up sheet out back if you're joining us virtually Please in the chat room provide your contact information And if you're on the phone, please send an email to Marlekeen at m K e n e at SouthBurlingtonVT.gov and by signing up It indicates there's a documentation that you were present and a participant in case you wish to take any future action Okay Let's start with the agenda and Start with the emergency evacuation procedures in the event of an emergency. There are doors in the two back corners of the auditorium You would simply exit those doors and either turn right or left to get outside of the building Are there any additions deletions or changes to the agenda for tonight? Good, are there any announcements or reminders? I guess I should announce that we are doing our annual Volunteer Search so if you go on our website, you can see what committees have vacancies Or have positions that are up for reappointment So if you would like to be a member of this or any other committee Please submit your application online and you will be interviewed for consideration just to let you know the Positions are Advertised when they're someone's term is up regardless of whether they are reapplying or not So if you see that there are two positions open in a committee, it doesn't mean that you know, we have a bunch of people Running and screaming it just means that two people's terms are up Thank you. Roller anything else? Nope Are there any comments or questions from the public that are not specifically related to an agenda item? Hearing none. We'll go ahead and move to review of projects Item number five on the agenda This is site plan application SP 2312 of the University of Vermont to amend a previously approved plan for a research and education facility The amendment consists of adding outdoor storage as a use and associated site improvements at 705 Spear Street Who is here for the applicant? Hi Excuse me for a second. Yes full disclosure for this application Thank you full disclosure on this application my wife works at UVMMC and holds a Faculty appointment at the medical at the college as well. Okay. I do not think this will impact my ability I don't think so but thank you for the disclosure anyways. Thanks any other disclosures or Jesus Welcome is the bright green light on on that microphone Light on now. It's brighter. Okay. Hi. My name is Lonnie Raven So I'm associate planner for the University of Vermont at the planning design and construction department With me today is David Blatchley Associate director planning design and construction and project manager for this project and Derek Reed Civil engineer with Krebs and Lansing engineers and UVM's consultant stormwater engineer. Okay. Is it Derek or Eric Derek? Thank you Thank you What I'd like to do is start by Swearing you in okay, raise your right hand, please Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth under penalty of perjury? I do Thank you So this you've seen the staff reports so this this review is a little different than the way we often go about projects because It's expected to be so abbreviated that Marty has already drafted With some areas still to be filled in findings of fact and conclusions For us to review. So What I'd like to suggest Lonnie is if you could please just give us a little overview of what you're doing and why you're why you're asking to Do this and then I think we should move ahead with the identified three issues that the That are kind of left open for discussion in the findings Okay I just want to note that the university has seen and read the staff comments in the draft decision and We'd like to note that we agree to the draft decision in all the conditions. Okay. That's helpful. Thank you Just to give a small quick overview of the project In the past few years we started the university started construction on a major project that was later Had to stop because of COVID so the disruption included The work was disrupted so we did have a series of Construction materials that are coming to us despite the fact that we're not quite ready to build yet So in 2020 we received one shipment of large structural steel members Which we could not use right away and it was not possible to store it on the site and on the athletic campus so we had to find a quick place and The city was very helpful in helping us Acquire another place. So thank you We haven't been able to start reconstruction yet a lot another large portion of the steel has been sitting in the fabricators yard in Canada Since 2020 the university already owns the steel and the fabricator has asked us to take it So we've looked for an appropriate site and what we found is the proposed site Which is just north of 705 Spear Street It is close to the first storage site and it does not impinge on another active use right now So although we have to ask for a permanent permit We do not intend to permanently store the steel members there. We plan to move it within a few years And so we plan not to Permanently impact the site We're gonna put up the steel members are gonna go on the site which is avoiding the wetland and anything else that needs to avoid we're gonna put a fence around it an eight foot fence with green slats and There's an existing farm road, which we're gonna put gravel on so we can bring the stuff in and then We're gonna take it out again and when we are able to remove the steel we will take out the fence and Return the site to its existing condition. Thank you. Any questions board? I have one question. Could you show me on the map? How close is this to your other storage site? I don't have control over the map, but the storage site is across Spear Street. That's what I thought Okay, is it right? Is it this driveway right here? Okay. Yes. All right. That's what I thought So there are opposite sides of Spear Street still close though. Yes. Thank you Okay Let's Let's move through the three Issues that are as of today not resolved and one is the proposed site restoration plan And I know that there were some questions about that. I'm going Marty Do you do you want to explain what your questions were about that? Yeah, so for this one, it's not so much a question but just more This was a standard condition that was included in the last approval for the other steel storage site And that's just a condition that the applicant must obtain a CO at the time of site restoration so that we are Kind of inspecting and approving the the built site with the fence and the steel storage But then also getting eyes on it again as the site is restored to its previous condition We agree to that. I don't know if it would help Would you like us to submit an existing conditions, which is essentially the restoration plan like an additional plan to clarify that? I don't Mind I guess that's a question for the board Well, um, I don't know board. What do you think? I Don't was that something that we had for the for the Previous condition as well, or is it just the condition is sufficient to stand on its own? Um, I think the answer to both questions is yes Last time there was a second site plan But also I think that the notes included in their their site plan in the second sheet as well with the details are Are pretty sufficient to give you a pretty good overview of what they're gonna be doing as they restore the site So you don't think we need it. I don't think so, but we could have one well My sense is that you're on the record. We have it recorded We've listened and why create extra work for you excellent. We accept the conditions on Okay, the second issue is The proposed Storage is a pertinent to the primary use of the property and my sense was That that's kind of been established, but I want to open that up for discussion board members mark anyone Okay, all right So is that enough? I Think so. Yeah, it was found to be a pertinent last time. So great. Just want to make sure we're on the same page again Thanks mark And the third issue is the proposed screening and buffering which as I recall You the pile of steel members won't exceed seven feet and they'll be surrounded by a Chain-link fence with webbing in it. Correct of eight feet. Yeah eight feet. Okay Any questions about that Do you have any need for any more information Marty? No, I just wanted to make sure that the board had an opportunity to review the proposed screening to make sure it was Adequate That makes sense to me Yeah, I think given that it's a temporary use that is consistent or you know sufficient for this situation great Just had one question actually hinging on that somewhere in here I think it was in the the applicants write up it was saying that they have to ask for a permanent Permit for this, but they're planning on using on a temporary basis Given that it's a permanent permit and sometimes temporary can become longer term than expected Is there anything that would be required differently or that we would be doing differently if we expected this to be here for 10 years? Or 15 years Because it could be sure the way things go if it's a permanent permit I can just say that the steel is a valuable commodity So we would either use it or sell it Okay, and as far as process goes there is no difference between the way we've reviewed This application and the way we would review an application for a permanent permanent outdoor storage I guess if you are Making your decision on whether the buffering is sufficient based on thinking it's gonna be gone in three years versus thinking it's gonna be gone to 15 That's that's potentially a difference, but as far as like process goes there is no difference Yeah, great. Thank you Any other questions? Okay, thank you, I'm gonna open it up for public comment Are there any members here or online from the public who would like to comment on this project? Hearing none, I would entertain a motion to close this hearing I'll move to close the hearing. Thanks. I don't know Second, thank you discussion. Okay. All in favor of closing the hearing say aye. Aye Opposed Okay, thank you very much for your time. Thank you. Okay the next project The Description is long. This is a sketch plan application SD 2306 of the Snyder Braverman development company LLC to Subdivide an existing 5.86 acre lot developed with a stormwater treatment pond Into three lots of 3.71 acres lot N1 1.79 acres lot N2 and 0.36 acres lot 3 for the purpose of developing three mixed-use buildings containing a total of 213 residential units and 27,000 square feet of non residential space on lot N1 and future city street on N3 to be to be reviewed under separate administrative site plan application had 225 market street and 267 market street and 113 garden street Who is here for the applicant? This is Ken Braverman with Snyder Braverman and I'm being joined with Andy Rowe who's our engineer and a representative of the landowner South Burlington Realty is Tim McKenzie is also here this evening. Thank you This is a sketch plan. So there's no need to swear you in so why don't we? Proceed by having you give us just a very brief overview, of course, we've all read the staff report But if you could give us a little overview of the project great that would be helpful Thank you for the time this evening look forward to Discussing the project as mentioned This is a three lot subdivision of a 5.86 Acre property that's located diagonally across the street from where we are this evening The purpose of the subdivision is to create the three lots and the lots Are configured as following lot N3? is being created for the purpose of Creating a future public street And as you see on the plan shown on the Screen That's a planned connection of the extension of school street As depicted on the city's official map So that would be a 60-foot right-of-way That Would be a future street that Will be providing an irrevocable offer of dedication to the city So at a time where the city is prepared to take ownership of That street the lot will be created and ready to go The other lot and to is a 1.79 acre lot And that is a lot that's going to contain the existing stormwater treatment improvements that Were constructed several years ago And that picks up water not only from the proposed development, but some of the surrounding areas as well and That lot will be held in common ownership Lot N1 is a 3.71 acre lot and that is a lot that will Be the development lot For a proposed application that's currently being reviewed By city staff Okay, thank you. You bet Any questions from the board at this point before we go through the staff comments Okay The first comment I'm going to read Staff recommends the board direct the applicant to incorporate the comments of the community development director The director of public works and the stormwater section into the next submission for this property What are your what's your response to that and no problem? Okay? Good, let's move ahead Comment number two I'm going to read this one to staff recommends the board direct the applicant to provide the draft language For all proposed easements as part of the final plaid application. No problem. Okay, right? and then This last one I'm going to ask Marla to summarize because I read it two times and I'm like It's a little convoluted, but she'll she knows what it means and it makes perfect sense Yeah, so this was a little tricky actually the subdivision well back in 2020 the standards for Subdivision and the standards for site plan sort of We're woven together a little more closely and In the 22 amendment to the LDR. There was an attempt made to break out Standards related to Setting up a site for successful development from Which under subdivision and the standards that apply to actual design of a site under site plan Because this is a Separate subdivision and site plan application and this could happen anywhere. This is not just a form-based code situation Like in meadowlands or in tech park. They like to subdivide and do site plans separately There are some of the subdivision standards which are difficult to determine whether they comply without a Concept of how the site could be developed As Ken said they've already submitted their site plan application. So if that site plan is approved, which we're working very hard on and Then we already have proof of concept that this subdivision is viable. So what this comment is saying is that? if We get that site plan approval Either complete or nearly complete before they come to you for subdivision then it sort of obviates the need to demonstrate Proof of concept of the subdivision. Okay, does that make sense? Yeah, yeah more so than the the written description did so the idea is The recommendation here is to get the site plan pretty far along Before they come in for final plot. Okay, and that doesn't preclude them submitting But it might you know, we might have some negotiations with them outside of a hearing on when we choose to schedule that So I guess the first question is can you live with that? This is I was thinking about this on the drive-in. This is our fourth subdivision in the form-based code district So we're accustomed to this exercise Because it's been that way really from the beginning So to answer your question that we have no problem with that. Okay. Yep. All right and is there anything that you need the board to Ask or find out about that's probably redundant Or is their agreement that this makes sense as a way to proceed enough? I think it was more just have a conversation about what this site no this I Don't want to use a word site because that implies like the site this project This property is how it's going to proceed through the review process and I wanted to kind of have a Conversation about what that might look like Just for your information. I expect to have our Initial comments on the site plan to you guys tomorrow great So if that helps inform, I know Andy had and I'm not holding you to anything But you had said that you had hoped to submit your final plot application by the end of this week So hopefully those two things work out. What do you think you want to do? Do you want to get through site plan before hearing the final plot hearing or do you want to do the final plot hearing before site plan? I think as you would suggest it It makes sense to be pretty far along in that site plan review process before we come back before the board But on the other hand, we'd like to get our subdivision application in So it can get in the queue because we know there's a certain amount of lead time there No, I think that makes sense I think we can if you get it in and we can hold you a spot and Maybe it's not the next meeting. Maybe it's two meetings out or something right But I think we get the application in we work on the form-based code on the separate simultaneous track and hope to be ready to come back before the board Hit the next meeting or the next meeting after that Perfect great questions from the board. No Okay, um, thank you very much. I'm gonna ask if there are any public comments Are there any public comments from people? I know no one's in the audience except him and he's part of the deal um on people online or No, no comments. Okay. It's sketch. So, um, I think we don't even have to vote to close It do we no, no, we're good to go great. Thank you for the time. Yeah, thank you. Good luck Short night. Yeah, this actually we made it in seven minutes. I think one night. So we're It is a short night. See you see you soon. Oh Yes Don what about the the minutes? Oh, yes, I always forget about the minutes Um Attention, pardon me that you thought I wasn't paying attention. Yeah. Okay. Thanks mark. I was gonna ask you questions. So Um, do we have both sets of minutes remind me? I believe we just have April 11th. Oh the 18th Okay, you got me April 11th about an hour after I submit after I posted the packet All right, and it's her birthday month. So we're gonna cut her some slack. That's all right I'll have for the next time. We don't need no no slack needed. All right Mark since you brought it up, would you like to make a motion about the april 18th minutes? Sure. I'll make a motion that we approve the the minutes from 18 april 2023 has drafted. I didn't see any issues There's just the one Oh, that was one where we had no one come. That's right And I will second that All in favor of approving the minutes Hi Hi pose. No, okay Great. That's the end of the agenda Um, now we have no deliberation. Do we would you like to deliberate on uvm? I can lock the meeting and Mark can just stay on for wrapping up that and then we don't have to deliberate before the meeting this time