 I'm Lisa Savage. Welcome to another episode of Pathways to Progress. I'm here with Victoria Pelletier and Roberto Rodriguez. They are counselors. Victoria represents the second district and Roberto is a counselor at large. And we're going to talk about the issues of the day here in the city of Portland. And we're taking questions from our studio audience today too, so that's a new development for us. So how have you guys been? So the last two meetings have been in person, which has been really cool. And I think that was the first time that I felt like a counselor was really in the chair with my name plate and the microphone. And I was like, OK, this feels different than being on Zoom. But it was really cool. And it was good to see people actually come in and watch the meetings, give public comment. And so yeah, it's been pretty cool. Great. Yeah. We've had three of them already, actually. The last one was super quick. Our last meeting was less than an hour, so you probably forgot about it. I told you, I was really looking forward to going back in person. I think that there's a lot that Zoom takes away from the working relationship, particularly with counselors. So I was looking forward to being in person and just seeing if anything changed. We did make one really cool change to our rules. Remember I talked about that it used to be that when counselors spoke, you have to stand up. But clearly, during Zoom, that never happens. So now that we came back, our new rules are so that we don't have to stand up when you speak. So I can speak while I'm sitting down, which, as I said before, will not have any impact on either what I'm saying, my intelligence, or the value of my words. So I'm glad that that change was made. I think you told Victoria before you said, oh, when we used to meet in person in the school board, we fooled around a lot more than we did on Zoom. So was there any goofing off? Or is everybody pretty focused here in budget season? Well, I feel like I call myself the counselor of poorly timed jokes. So I'm always just like, every time there's a time where it feels like I should make a little joke, I think I do. And I had a couple that landed. I think probably the thing that made people laugh the most was I brought so many snacks in. And I was just prepared. I brought a red bullet in case it started getting tired. I brought some seltzer water in. I brought some talkies in. I brought sour patch kids in. And I put them in my little drawer. So occasionally, people will see me slip in there and have a little snack. So I think people were just surprised with the amount of food I actually brought in for the meetings. Well, sometimes they go until 1 in the morning. Yeah, have to be prepared. I don't want to get too over anything. I saw you were out with the nurses. I was. The main med nurses, they've got their union, but now they're negotiating their first contract. And they're asking for support. So how was that, besides cold and rainy? Oh my gosh, I know. It was great. I mean, they did a 7 AM slot. And then they did a 7 PM slot. And I went to the 7 PM time. It was absolutely packed. I mean, there were a ton of people there. It was really cool, actually, to see people from different cities, too. I saw someone had a sign that I think she was from Soco or Scarborough and was like, we stand with you. So that was really cool. It was great to be with them and really rally and advocate. That's my world, I think, in terms of protesting and advocating and action. And so I was really proud of them. It was nice to just be able to be with them as the counselor of that district as well. And stand with them proudly and really advocate for a fair and equitable contract that I hope is coming. It's been, I think, eight months that they've been going back and forth. But I was really glad that they are doing informational pickets, and I'm sure that they'll continue to do so. I think it's great for our community as a whole, too, in Portland, to show our support. And so that was really, I was glad I was there with them. But I think this picket that you went to was focused on the issue of nurse-patient ratio. Yes. Which is something that nurses' unions are always saying, we're trying to keep you safe. This is not about us. We're telling you we can't safely care for that many patients. Yeah, and it's strange because I always, it's interesting having conversations with them as well because I think that there's this notion or narrative that like the nurses are good. Like they're the backbone of this society and we need them and we can't live without them and all of this is true. But then it's like we're not gonna staff them well, we're not gonna pay them equitably, we're not gonna give them a living wage, we're not gonna listen to their demands. And so whenever I think about like, okay, this is what the nurses are dealing with, so what does that say for our educators and what does that say for our service industry workers? What does that say for all of these groups of individuals that we can't live without but aren't really advocating for in terms of just general things that you need to really be successful at work. And so I think if anything as a counselor, again, of that district, it's really my responsibility to be there with them and to advocate with them as much as I can. So we'll see what happens. So true, and that's a great segue to what I was gonna ask you about, Roberto. So you were at the city finance committee meeting last night and there was kind of a bombshell dropped, not to use too strong of a phrase. And we haven't seen it in the paper today. What's going on with that? Yeah, I'm a little bit surprised that we've not seen it picked up in the press herald, but last night at the city finance committee, which was the second joint finance committee with the school department, they were reviewing the school budget as it's been approved by the school board. And the job of the city finance committee is to refer it to the full council so that the full council can review it, ultimately approve it, and have it be on the ballot for the June referendum. But at the meeting last night, through the discussion, some concerns came up about the total tax impact in the city when combined the proposed budget from the city manager and the school board. And it was a really interesting conversation. I think that there was some really good points made, but ultimately the decision was made to decrease the school budget by a million dollars in order to lower the overall tax increase that the combined budgets would have. And I think what was stroke me most as problematic about it is I think what we've been hearing from the commission, that because these two budgets are happening in different timelines, the municipal and the school one, the city council ends up having to make decisions about the school budget without really having a holistic view of what the entire financial situation looks like. And the school department has taken weeks, if not months, you know, going through that budget with a fine comb, right? Like trying to make sure that all the details are, that they have answers to all the questions and all the details are clear. And then the council with, in my opinion, ill informed is able to make a decision that has an immediate impact on our schools. Now we were just talking about labor and wages and the importance of paying people, you know, proper wages. You know, the vast majority of the school budget, something like 82% of it is wages and benefits. So to say that we're spending too much money on schools is literally to say that we're not paying our educators enough. Like that's not a difficult connection to make. And that to me is a ridiculous statement to make. I'm disappointed that the finance committee took that vote. The budget will be up to the full council to review. In order to send it back to the school board, they need a super majority, so we need six votes. I'm looking forward to talking to my colleagues and seeing if those six votes are there. I hope they're not, I don't think they are. But I feel really comfortable approving the budget the way that it was approved by the school board. A million dollars is a chunk of change. What's the total school budget? Right now, I think the proposed one is just over 130 mil. Forgot the exact amount. Well, good luck whipping the votes on the council. So this was not a line item kind of thing where they went through the school budget saying, oh, you don't need that and you don't need this. They just said knock a million dollars off that you decide where those cuts would come. Yep, the city council doesn't have, they're not able to really go line item by line item. They really only have a say on the bottom line, on the total impact. So again, they're looking at just the numbers, not necessarily programmatic impact or labor impacts, things like that. They can ask these questions, we can be informed about it, but at the end of the day, that's not the council's job. Which again, is why I'm fully in support of the commission's recommendation to have the school board have full autonomy over their school budget and be able to send it directly through the referendum to voters and not have the council be put in this position that again, puts us in a, makes us make decisions being ill-informed. So maybe the charter commission will fix that, huh? Although I don't think that was one of the things the charter commission took up, but... Yeah, I don't think it's structural change that would be interesting. Yeah, I think they did vote on, or at least in their proposal on the school board having fiscal autonomy, which is good. So at least that's a step, I guess, in the right direction of us not having to do this, maybe this time next year and the year after. But yeah, I don't know, I agree with Roberto and I think it's challenging when we're having conversations around really pushing and financing equity. And I'm always saying like, you have to go all in, like every dollar counts. And if we wanna keep going and you wanna keep the momentum forward, then you need to keep that money in place and like picking and choosing and taking away from it, I think is really gonna be doing a disservice to the students as we are trying to put forth a full momentum of just equity. I mean, we talk about that in Portland, that's part of our comprehensive plan, that's a huge part of what the school board is trying to do. So I think it's disappointing of seeing that a million dollars, even though I think people can say like, oh, well, it's not that much and here's why we're doing it. You really need to invest and it's all about investing. And I look forward to having the conversation on Monday at our meeting to see where that goes. But I'm hoping that we can really invest forward in the city and in the students as well. Well, hopefully the people that watch the show will call their city counselors and let them know that they support this progressive policy to keep the money in there to keep funding equity. I don't know if you see the main educator, it's the paper that educators get from the MEA. There's a whole spread on Portland School's equity program, the goals, how much progress has been made and which still needs to be done. So it's kind of an interesting time to be slashing the budget, isn't it? Well, we have an exciting development today and that is that we have a studio audience in here with us at the Portland Media Center and we have selected some questions. They have generated some questions and we have those questions and we're going to answer some of those questions. Counselors are. So this is a new development for us on Pathways to Progress and if it works out well. I hope we continue it. Thanks to everybody for helping make this happen. I'm going to read the first question but most people are going to come up and ask their question. This question is from Hilary Randall. Hilary is a West End mom who works in the Oldport, so one of your constituents. I know she's told me that you're awesome, so she's already a fan. The new proposal from the Charter Commission that will strengthen the role of the mayor. What are your thoughts? Great question and I think we're all excited to talk about it. I know that I am. I know the Charter has been doing incredible, difficult, laborious work so I look forward to them wrapping it up and setting it to us and while we can't change anything I think we'll be able to have a conversation at the council level of what we're sending forth to voters and I'm still, and I said this when I was campaigning that I'm still in support and interested in what it would look like to have a strong mayor model. I'm always interested in creative ideas and I hear like it's never been done. What if this, what if the, I think if we are trying to talk about really making sure that we are living in a fully democratic city and we're talking about an appointed position versus an elected position I think a strong mayor and a strong elected mayor is a really interesting path that we can take and I know that there were some amendments put forward. I wasn't able to catch the last charter meeting so it will be interesting to see if anything has changed but I'm not against it again. I think that we can always try things and I feel like right now especially where Portland is of like not a giant city yet, still a large town that's like stepping into its own that this is a great opportunity for us to see what works for us as a government level. How can we make local government more equitable? How can we hear from more voices? How can we make sure that every single person is represented in leadership here? And that's a huge thing for me personally. That's why I ran was to make sure that we are reflective across the board of everybody. So if we're talking about an elected strong mayor versus an appointed city manager, I think it's a great thing for us to try and to really rally behind and I encourage everybody as I will to, to read into it and to ask questions while we still can. But yeah, I look forward to it and I think I trust the council or the charter's work and I look forward to having more of those conversations. Great. Roberta, what are your thoughts on a strong mayor? So to be honest with you, I don't necessarily have really strong opinions about it, but I will say to pick up on what Tori was just saying, the reason that we have this proposal, the reason that we have a charter commission and the reason that this conversation has been taken has been taking place for so long is because people are just dissatisfied with the way that local government is representing them. They feel like whatever is in place right now is just not functioning for them. This is why we see people like, you know, talk about changing the mayor's position, changing the city manager's position because what they've experienced is a government that doesn't represent their values and their concerns. So whether this proposal advances or not, I think that we need to recognize that there's a whole bunch of people in our city that are dissatisfied with the way that their concerns are being addressed by local government. So if this is the way that the commission thinks is best for us to address it, then I like Tori, I want to value the work that they put forward. And I think that's a proposal that's worth our voters examining and hopefully supporting. Right, so you guys have your goals clear. You're not sure if the strong mayor would get you there, but you're in favor of trying it to see. Yeah, absolutely. If that will move in that direction. Absolutely. All right, we are going to take a question now from Baba Lee and he's going to come up, I think, and say his question right here at the microphone. We really appreciate your taking the time to do this, Baba. He is the founder of Ethics, Empower the Immigrant Children and Students, and also a parent of students in the South Portland School. So welcome, Baba, and please let us know your question. Thank you. So thank you, both of you, and also thank you for your service to your community. I think this is really very encouraging. My question is not related to really what you've done last night or the policies that you're running, but it's more in a broader spectrum about fight against racism or anti-racism and equity in our society. So you probably are very familiar with the tokenism, and which is a terminology that's, you know, talked about practice that's make an appearance of sexual or gender or racial equity appeared by electing somebody who is a person of color. So what are your thoughts about this as a person who are elected recently and also with your own job in your workplace, how does it manifest to have you witnessed or have you lived it in your experience? Thank you. That's a great question. Absolutely. I was like, do you want to go or should I go? I have a lot of thoughts, but I want to open, I want to give you a chance to go first. Okay, thank you for your question very much. Have I ever experienced tokenism is a hard yes. Many times, every single day of my life, you know, I'm the only black woman on the council. I'm one of the youngest ones on the council. And, you know, I think that tokenism is really tied into racism of people saying, we want you to be this way. And it's difficult because, you know, being black and black individuality, we're not a monolith, so we don't think the same. We're not speaking the same. I don't have the same ideals. And so it gets challenging trying to break out of the role that people want for me. So people want me to be a certain way. And that was really challenging. And I think my first couple months on the council, especially when we're talking about, like me advocating really hard for hazard pay and just kind of like moving towards really trying to make sure people are getting a living wage. People were like, she's radical. She's out of control. Like, who are you? What are you doing? And this is not what I thought you were gonna do. And so it makes it hard because I'm going based off of my own lived experience as a black individual, as a young person, as a woman. And all of those things are wrapped up into how people think I should act all the time. And even in workspaces, which I know you asked about as well, prior to where I am now, I've been in predominantly white workspaces. And so like my last job, I was the only black woman there. I think I was the first black woman they've ever hired. So that was a lot of pressure as well because I'm setting the tone now and I'm setting the framework for anyone additional that they hire that's black and young and a woman. And that's a lot. That's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of unfair pressure that people put on people of color on the council, black people on the council. We are held to a standard that is higher than our white counterparts because how I react and how I speak, people will think that I'm yelling or people will think that I'm being angry and I'm really just being passionate. So it's really hard to exist in a world where people want you to be a certain way based on the narrative that they've created for you. That's a false narrative. So the only thing that I can do again is be myself and obviously know my truth and know who I am. I have to let a lot of things go. But I work in racial equity and something I'm really good at is having these types of conversations and really educating people around why what they said or do is harmful and can be tokenism. So yeah, I could talk about this all day. So I'm just gonna stop there. Thanks. Yeah, I think, I mean, I think Tori hit and like so many of the really important points. One of the things that she said that I think is where I was, where my mind immediately went. So much of what happens when tokenism takes place when people wanna quote unquote, take advantage of your identity is that it's based on these stereotypes and say so often miss on what it is that they're trying to give you value for and what they're trying to tokenize. And so you get, like you said, we're not a monolith, right? Like I'm a Latino man, but I am not an immigrant because I'm Puerto Rican, right? So all of a sudden, people don't know what to do with that. They're like, wait, we were trying to tokenize you as a Latino but you don't have an immigrant experience. So it's, you know, I would imagine like same thing if you're like African-American and then here you have African immigrants, you know, people get confused because we're trying to tokenize you. We're trying to like, you know, make it seem like we're equitable here. So it gets really muddy when that happens. So I've had these experiences both in my political life, certainly in my professional career and in my personal life. And I think that it's just unavoidable. To be honest with you, I think I've learned to navigate that somewhat smoothly. And so to kind of, you know, like Tori said, understand that I am, I do have an opportunity to set an example and to maybe correct some wrongs and write some stereotypes. So I try to take advantage of that and have those conversations whenever possible. And again, the more that we get tokenized, the more opportunities we have to like push back on it. Yeah. Well, I think it's really courageous and hard work that you're doing. So I admire you for being willing to do it. And I'm sure there are days when you go, but I don't want to do, I don't feel like doing this, but you know, you've really made a commitment and your integrity is impressive. Thank you. We have a question from Pedro Vasquez now. Pedro is on the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Committee of the school department in South Portland. And he's also chair of the Human Rights Commission in South Portland. So he's going to come up and ask his own question. Thank you, Pedro. Oh, it's such a pleasure to be here. Thank you for inviting me. First of all, a lot of admiration for the work that you do in our community. And so I express my gratitude for what I know is very tough work. And Lisa, thank you for inviting me here today. I'm just so pleased to have been invited and have this opportunity. Oh, thanks for being with us. Thank you. I wonder if you could speak to the, which in my view is a humanitarian crisis that's unfolding in our communities. When I see the looming deadlines for our asylum-seeking and refugee friends who are currently living in hotels, as some of you may know, there's a hotel operator who has said they're not renewing the contract. And so we're looking at families and unhoused individuals being back on the streets very, very soon. And in my estimation, I think the state is really not doing enough to address the humanitarian crisis. And so I wonder if you could speak to that. Well, Peter, thank you for the question. And can I say that you yourself are a powerhouse in your community. So thank you for everything that you do every day in South Portland. And I know a lot about the work that you do and just really good to know you and to be a partner in it with you. You know, we had a Health and Human Services Committee meeting a couple of weeks ago, or maybe it was last week. And we talked about the urgency of this issue, right? And we also talked about how, not just unfair, but unrealistic it is to expect Portland as a sole municipality to deal with it, that it really is not just a regional, but a state problem, or not a problem, an issue that the state needs to address. And so I agree with you. I think it's an emergency. I think, you know, we talked about, I talked about during that meeting, I served in the Floyd Army National Guard. And I think that I was activated for circumstances that, in my opinion, were not the reason that I joined the Guard. And today, if I were still on the Guard and I got the phone call to be activated to go help my community, because there were a bunch of on-house folks that needed emergency help, I'd be more than happy to put on my uniform and do that. And I'll say that on the back, so if I received phone calls after 9-11 to put my uniform and my unit got deployed to Iraq. And I was not happy to do that. I actually did not do that. So if there's a way to use our resources to help our local community and declaring a state of emergency is the way to do it, I'm 100% behind that. I think the other thing I want to add to it, like I said before, Portland cannot handle this alone. South Portland certainly cannot handle this alone. The hotels cannot handle it alone. So we really need to have media attention to this because no one's talking about the urgency of this problem right now, the way that they should. We need to have all of us, like Tori's going to tell you in a minute that we need to go, I mean, I'm going to let her say it, but how aggressive we need to be about it. And I agree with you. Like I think it's all hands on decks. And again, no one is bringing up the sense of urgency that is needed right now. Yeah, I think Roberto said it all. I don't have a ton to add. I think that what I was going to say, which I'm ready to go and protest in Augusta at any time, because I do think that this is when protesting is actually really effective, is when you're not being listened to. And I think it would be a really powerful statement to have the leaders of Portland and South Portland showing up together and saying, we need help. Because at the end of the day, you're absolutely right. This isn't something that Portland or South Portland or Southern Maine should really be shouldering on their own. It's just not possible. It's not sustainable. So when we talk about Maine and the framework of Maine, of like, the thing I think that's always talked about in Maine is like, manors are helping each other. We're always helping. We're always going to try and band together to really provide support to one another. And so we at this time, it is a huge emergency. It's, I think it's May 31st or May 30th when the hotels are no longer going to be hosting. And then I'm not sure what's going to happen or what we're going to do, but this is all that we talk about in HHS. And it's terrifying because we want to make sure that we can provide support to everybody. We want to make sure that we can provide housing. And if Portland is left and South Portland is left without state support, then I'm not really sure what we're going to do. We are already stretched to our limit. And so again, I think we're writing letters. We're calling. I know that our Health and Human Services team is meeting with the state weekly and saying here are our numbers and this is not getting any better. If anything, this is getting worse for us. And so I'm ready to go protesting at any time with some signs. And again, that's a great way to get media attention because we're not, no one is talking about it. And by the time we start talking about it, it will be too late. So, you know, as someone that organizes, I'm ready to go whenever. Yeah, just let me know. Thank you so much. Thank you, Pedro, for your question. And I'll join you. And I think Lisa said she's done. She's done too, so. I think our next questioner will too. Hi. We're going to take, we have time for one more question. We're going to hear from Pat Tog. Pat is a Westin resident. So one of your constituents and a retired journalist. She used to do a radio show for a long time and she has a question for you. Do you need the card or you've got it? Yeah, this might be a little short for this. Anyway, I'm very reassured knowing that we have two such energetic progressive voices on the city council. I'm happy to know that. My question has to deal with climate change. You know, almost daily we hear reports from scientists who say it's so much worse than we ever thought. Now the national government clearly has a responsibility and they're not doing enough. But if you had carte blanche, what would each of you do in Portland to make Portland more responsive to the dangers posed by climate change? Great question. Also hi, Westin resident. Nice to meet you. So I am excited to be on the Sustainability and Transportation Committee with Roberto and also with Andrew. And you know, I think we're a mighty team of three and with Troy as well leading us. It's been a really great experience and we have a lot of really good conversations around what we're doing to mitigate climate. And the thing that I'm the most excited on, which I was just chatting actually with Andrew about and I think it's in the works is hopefully weaving in a climate impact or climate equity assessment into the city ordinances. So that means anytime anybody wants to develop in Portland, they're gonna have to go based on the climate impact assessment. The climate impact assessment will be looked at by the planning board. So anytime the planning board approves anything, they will already know that that assessment has been done. And I think that is a really impactful first step towards Portland being so development friendly, especially on the waterfront, but saying are you taking into consideration these impacts and these impacts? What is this gonna look like in 10 years and 20 years? And I think if we can do that, we are taking a great step towards saying we wanna make sure that we are abiding by our comprehensive plan where sustainability is the second thing on the plan. And we're gonna go forward and make sure that anybody wants to develop in Portland that they have to go based on this impact. And I think the fact that it's already being talked about is really exciting and I'm hopeful that's something that our committee can take on. So that's something at least that's in the works that I think will have a really big impact. And then other than that, it's just a ton of education, a ton of education with our schools, a ton of education with young people. I'm so impressed and always amazed by just the young activists that are in Portland and beyond that are really taking this and running with it. So I look forward to having more conversations around that and amplifying and advocating and making sure that it's a full community effort as much as we can through the sustainability department and funding. We need funding for that department too. Thank you. Thank you for that. I hate to say we're out of time. Roberto, you've got 30 seconds. So real quick, part of that question talked about the need to have national action. Recently in one of our meetings, we saw how having a tax as close to the point of extraction for any of these fossil fuels is the most effective way to have long-term impact on the effects of climate change. And as much as what we do here locally is gonna have an impact on our municipality in the big global picture, we do need our national leaders to step up and have some aggressive action in how we combat climate change. So that's what I would want to do. Just educate people to the core that that's what needs to happen. Wonderful. Well, thanks for being with us. Thanks for taking time to do this. It's really wonderful having this conversation. I always learned so much and it's great to see you both. Thank you for being with us. If you like this show, let Portland Media Center know. We'd love to have you in our studio audience next time and be well. Thank you.