 Hello everybody. Can you hear me? Super. Thanks for coming. It's really nice to see so many people in Kalabumi. It's been a while since the last meeting we had here. So it's really nice to be here again. My name is Mayel and this is Divya. We'll be facilitating this session. And basically this meeting was called today with the aim to get together again in these intense times and to share updates on what's going on in the community. So it's really more like an update meeting. So different people will come on stage and give updates on different fronts. And we hope to keep it, if possible, quite short. So we'd like to end later that 6 if possible. And so one thing important is that the meeting is video recorded but not live streamed. So if there is a need we might do edits but we would rather not. And something else is that because we're in a very intense time right now in Orville and there are very emotional contents that are spoken out our invitation is really that we stay centered when we share and we try not to go too much into the emotions. Also because there are attempts right now to delegitimize the residents assembly as if we're not able to behave and I think it's really important that we manage to stay respectful and centered. So that would be my little invitation and the first agenda point. So we have a few points for today. One is an update on the national green tribunal outcome with a Q&A session. So we'll have Navros and Sandeep on stage who are the two petitioners. And so that's the first agenda point. And then we'll look at an initiative about facing our challenges. More information soon. We'll talk rapidly about the RADs, the ongoing RAD and the next RAD that is planned and will happen very soon. We'll talk about the situation in the youth center. Many of you may have seen the mails received by ATDC. So there have been updates since then. So we'll have youth center members coming and talking. And that should be it. And actually, since I think Sandeep is not yet back, we'll start with the RADs. So as you know, there is a working committee RAD currently going. The voting period stops tomorrow. So if you haven't voted yet, it is definitely the time to do it. There is an in-person voting tomorrow in Solar Kitchen between 11 a.m. and 2 p.m. And you can still vote online with all the usual voting means. Anything to add on that? Some of you were very confused as to how to vote because you're like, oh, I thought we were going for individual members and then you don't know, like if you don't click on yes or no, it doesn't appear. So if you do want to kick out individual members, click yes. And then you have the choice of members. And if you click no, you won't because, well, no choice, right? So that was just a little clarification. But yeah, please vote. None of us are very comfortable with voting people out because, you know, integrity and inclusion and human unity. But you got to do what you got to do sometimes. So please just vote. Thank you. Thank you, Divya. Natasha, I don't know if you would you like to give us a little update on the TDC RAD, which is next on the line. So I give you the mic. Hello, everybody. So I know this is these RADs are a bit like another RAD. So I'm just going to, I've put a few notes down because I didn't want to go more than five minutes and I can be a bit all over the place if I just ramble like that. So I'm going to read. But the reason I've written a little bit more kind of a personal story and how it culminates in the RAD is because somewhere we've all got to feel that to be able to participate. And we've come to a moment right now where it's really critical that we participate. And so somehow it's really not about the technicalities of all that goes on and what we decide upon finally in that RAD. But it's really about, yeah. So for me it started in December when I just happened to be one of those people that was kind of, you know, one of the first few who was called when the JCB arrived in Bliss. And somehow because of that incident I kind of gained a reputation that I don't particularly identify with. I've also been drawn into all kinds of activities in response to what's happening around us. And this is really not propelled by some kind of knee-jerk reaction. But it really comes from a deep longing, a real kind of deep longing for peace which I believe we all have at the core of our beings. And somehow thanks to this pause that the NGT gave us, I've had the opportunity and all of us have had that time to kind of contemplate this phenomena of what's going on. It's like, what really is this true? And somehow we as a community we're being shaped here by fear. It's like for me as a forester I kind of look at it as the ecology of fear, you know? And the whole ecology changes by the presence of a predator. And somehow our reactions are very linear and they're kind of like a patash, you know? It goes boom, boom, boom, like one thing to the next and you're just like on this treadmill. But somehow along with that there is also alongside that, you know, this has to be done, that has to be done kind of mode. There's also this thing of community. Suddenly we're discovering our community. We're discovering love. We're discovering it's incredible how all these little groups have come about and how people are just willing to serve and put their best foot forward and these groups form, the job is done and you move to the next group and you're doing the next job and it's just, it's really miraculous. So within this whole conflict there are these nuggets of this kind of blissful state of community really. So it's a very parallel process. It's not something that we're going to reach at some stage when all our conflict is solved. It's here and now that peace that we're looking for. And I think all of us have felt this but it's important for us to articulate it together over here and to acknowledge that in one way or the other this is something that has been, it's not new. It's been there within all of us forever, for our lifetimes perhaps from previous lives even. And so it's not all the secretaries fault. But it's come to a kind of a drum beat that is really loud at this stage and it's a calling. It's a calling to participate, to be able to transmute this frequency into something that we have all come to Orville for. That's what we're here for. So coming back to the RADs. Yeah, the original petition was filed in November but because of our processes and our structures it's kind of coming to pass now. It's the upcoming RAD about the TDC so it's really pertinent. We've already had three RADs which have been kind of thresholds that we've passed that weren't easy, were difficult and the community is really ready for some positive action and that's what we hope. So even though when the RAD was filed it was about the office order which kind of deems the current TDC to be illegitimate but we need to go beyond that. It's not just about the legality of an office order or whatever. It's about the manner, it's about the spirit, it's about how we go ahead and how the RA can participate together with the new TDC that will come in the next election process. And this directive is vital. We have been very quiet and silent in the past and we haven't been so forthright. So it's the moment to do that and to voice our opinion and to be there. So I hope to see all of you. Thank you Natasha. When is the first residence assembly meeting planned? Is this already to be announced or should people wait for the official announcement? Okay so basically the invitation will come on Monday and you will know the date of the first residence assembly meeting then. Coming back on the working committee RAD I just forgot to say one thing which I think is really important because we're at this crucial point and the end of the voting day is tomorrow. It would really be great if we could all check with two or three friends who we know are not necessarily following emails, not necessarily involved in meetings and ask them if they participated. So that would be a little request. And Jasmine is agitating a flyer. So I think this flyer has been circulated in several communities so far. You might have found a flyer in front of your door. And there are some extras and because I think this all started a few days ago only so people didn't have the time yet to go and circulate it everywhere. So if you feel like taking a few flyers and bringing them to your community you can also do that. Any place where the flyers are, Jasmine, that I can... Okay, they are somewhere here. Oh, they're here. Okay, so before leaving at the end you can come and pick some up if you want. We'll leave them towards the entrance. Okay, and then the next point is a crispy one and it's the National Green Tribunal outcome. So I invite on stage Navros and Sandeep. At this stage my brain has become like a sieve so I always have someone younger who can remember things. So I'm just going to say a few words then Sandeep and then I think most of the meat of the matter will come with your questions. So you see the National Green Tribunal has a status different from that of a high court. It stands all by itself and it has the mandate to look at any issues regarding any aspect of environment and it has very broad scope for calling for demanding any kind of records, documentation, evidence, people, histories, whatever. So when we first thought of doing something we didn't know where to go and people were talking about the high court. But I think there are serious limitations with high courts. They are bound within frameworks and structures and laws that allow them very narrow scopes. The Green Tribunal on the other hand, as I said, can allow you to raise even vague questions and the court can then look at the importance of it, the relevance of it and then call for material to fill in the holes. So we said it is probably better to begin by approaching the Green Tribunal. Then you see the process is that in any case if you don't like the outcome of the Green Tribunal you can go in appeal and in different states there are different possibilities but you can then go to the high court and appeal or as in the case of Tamil Nadu it is possible for us to challenge the decision of the Green Tribunal directly to the Supreme Court. So we thought that is probably a better option. So that's the Green Tribunal. Now what were the issues we went to the Green Tribunal with? First, what was our concern? Our concern happened incidentally, I think, to be green because the situation that we were confronted with at that time concerned the possible destruction of forests. The youth centre having already been demolished the next targets were Dakali and Bliss as we saw it. So we said alright, here's a forest issue. That was an issue but at the back of our minds our concern was wider. Our concern was a reflection of the political situation as it was evolving in Auroville where in fact all authority and power was as we saw it being removed from the hands of the community the Residence Assembly and being usurped by an authority that was alien to Auroville was ignorant of Auroville and had been transplanted on Auroville by an outside authority even if it was the government. Now you see previous governments have also appointed governing boards and secretaries but in all those cases without exception the governing board, the secretary were all people who had some previous association with either Auroville or Sri Aurobindo and the mother or the ashram or something. This is the first time we had entities who were placed in positions of authority in Auroville but who had no experience or knowledge or familiarity with Auroville. So we were in that very strange situation of having to deal with strangers. Who as we saw in the very first weeks of their entry into Auroville had misunderstood Auroville deeply. They saw us as a bunch of people they could push around, they could dominate, they could dictate to and they could basically work to take over the organizational structures that governed Auroville. So broadly speaking that was the scenario we faced. I'm telling you this because of the back of our minds although right in the forefront was the aspect of the prospect of the destruction of trees and that beautiful forest in Dakali and Bliss underlying our concern was this aspect of the political takeover of Auroville. So with that in mind we moved the green tribunal on the green issues and within the green issues we brought out these other concerns by way of adjuncts to say that all right if you do have to destroy a forest in Auroville who has the power to do it? If you do have the power to cut trees who has the authority to demand it? How in other words is Auroville to be governed? That was the question but not the direct question we put to the NGT. The direct question concerned trees and just to digress slightly here to our enormous surprise the NGT order despite our limited plea has delivered perhaps inadvertently but deeply into these questions of the governance of Auroville which actually it has no mandate to do but it has pronounced on them it has said oh but who decides who makes the decisions on what basis are the decisions made and when they raise these questions they by themselves and on their own came to the issue of oh is there a master plan? Who draws up the master plan? Are things being done according to the master plan? How does the master plan feature for example in the decision to destroy the trees? How does it feature into the decision of what to build? Where and how? So all these questions emerged out of the court's own curiosity we helped along a little bit by providing information but the initial questions came from the court addressing the logic of the situation so to my mind the one thing that has emerged from this and in a very practical and firm way is the court deciding that no further development can take place in Auroville until a due process has taken place a due process which recognizes the master plan which recognizes the groups, organization and bodies within Auroville which can bring up these issues and so they ordered a stay initially now right now the point is that the stay governs the cutting of trees no more tree cutting, stop the second thing is and this is where the court has moved far beyond our expectation to say okay this is not merely a matter of trees we want to know how decisions are made and on what basis will the decisions be made for the development not just of trees or greenery but the development of the whole of Auroville this is far beyond our expectation so that means now that we've been calling for this in the background for a number of years now but the court has said no we want to know how you propose to plan without a detailed development plan so please go back and create a detailed development plan a detailed development plan according to the literature of Auroville and has been prescribed by master plans as well is something that is drawn up and first it is placed before the community so in our expectation we expect a detailed development plan which technically should be drawn up by the next TDC which is yet to be formed and then we think within the next six to eight months they ought to come up with a detailed development plan that detailed development plan will and should must be brought before the community the community must reflect on that detailed development plan and then put up a plan for development now okay while that process is going on let's keep in mind the fact that for the last 25 years or 20 years or whatever Auroville has been governed by a master plan which was called a perspective plan now that perspective plan had a life expectancy which is expected to run out in the next two or three years by 2025 it runs out so in effect by 2025 even that perspective plan will no longer be operative and we will have to the next TDC will have to first draw up a master plan then draw up a detailed development plan and then on that detailed development plan which has been discussed with the community begin to implement it so I just want to lay that out for people who say that we have not been interested in the development of Auroville but only in trees you are wrong you see how focused we are on having a proper development plan so that we have a city that is our ultimate aim right so one other thing that the adventure with the green tribunal has shown us is don't be shy to raise questions India's judiciary is extremely enlightened sometimes they even take up issues so motto which means on their own understanding of things they decide that no no wait a minute these things need to be discussed so they call for those items even if it's based on just a news report they have written some newspaper they will say oh is this what is going on please come before us so if you are honest they listen anyway I've gone on long enough and I think for further details on what transpired at the NGT what their order was and what it means for us I will let Sandeep who is the co-signatory with me to talk that was very clever of you so that's Navarose in his pretty shirt so we had when we went to court we went to the tribunal with the plea that Auroville has forests deemed forests and these forests have a right to be protected and even though the land records don't necessarily show that they are forests they have a right to be protected the other factor that the court actually took on on its own so motto was the very factor that if you have a town which is of a certain size which will produce a certain amount of waste you need a town planning clearance an environmental clearance to show that the kind of destruction that's going to happen is going to be mitigated in some form so first we asked for the deemed forest then the court took up the factor that there is a need for prior environmental clearance but in order to do this prior environmental clearance which Tamil Nadu government gives us and the Union Ministry of Environment gives us we first need to have an environment impact assessment done on Auroville to show exactly what is actually going to be destroyed but in order to show what is going to be destroyed we need to know what we are going to build the master plan doesn't actually tell us what we are going to build it gives us a kind of vision statement it shows us a dream of what we could have but it doesn't show exactly which lands we are going to build on where, on which plots how much, how much is the square feet area what is the building sizes none of this is actually been cleared by the residents of Auroville and therefore until we have that we can't actually even ask for an environment impact assessment to be done because what are we going to ask them like we are going to build some things here please give us an environmental clearance they are going to be like ok exactly what are you building so basically the court took this issue up and said that this city specifically needs an prior environmental clearance and therefore it needs an environment impact assessment and therefore it needs project plans a proper project plan based on the master plan and then we have to apply for an environmental clearance and only once we have gotten the environmental clearance are we allowed to build now the third aspect of this judgment is the crown the foundation came to the court to the tribunal and basically stated that the matrimonter doesn't have road access um yeah seriously and therefore we need to create road access and so the crown is there for this um we sort of we tried to show we showed in court that the foundation website itself shows there's mobility access for disabled people to go to the matrimonter so that was a whole other thing but in essence the court did notice that there's always two sides to a dispute and therefore allowed an exemption from the environmental clearance simply for the crown road but even for this there has to be procedure involved you can't just go and build whatever you want that's that's not clearing a dispute and therefore they created this extra mitigation factor in which a joint committee comes down and has two months to look at exactly what is going to be affected what are the waterways what are the roadways what are the forests what are the lands that are going to be affected and how those effects can be mitigated either through reducing the size of the road or realigning the road so much for perfection and through making bridges or making ways or saying okay this area can't be touched by development it could be either of these so and then the foundation is directed to specifically follow that report completely they don't have a choice in the matter so these are the three things that were brought about the factor of the deem forests the part of the deem forests basically that we showed that even if it doesn't have land records that show that it is a forest Orwell's forests are still liable for protection to this the court replied saying that the forest conservation act does not allow for private lands like this to be defined as deem forests however the court noticed that the mother wanted green spaces and forests and that Orwell residents had worked for the forest and therefore the green spaces and forests and water bodies are liable for protection even if not under the forest conservation act and therefore we need proper procedure in place before building and we cannot just destroy anything that we like at a women fancy and that when we build every tree that we cut down has to be replaced with ten trees these were the directions of the green tribunal the mother said court saying the mother said that's what they said I think if people unless you have something to add then if anyone has any questions now's your chance I've gathered some questions and I'll ask them and hopefully that'll help clarify some of the questions maybe some of you have on your mind and if not maybe you can add after this could you also explain if protesting in Orwell is legal or illegal is it considered protesting against the government of India? really so first of all there's a whole lot of Hibbir Ji about fundamental rights and all of that but the more important thing here is to recognize as residents of Orwell you are an authority of the foundation you have the right and you have the duty to stand against Orwell's procedures if it's being hijacked that is not a question of rights it's your duty it's your obligation exactly thank you I got it that is in Orwell if you're standing outside Orwell the question is different in Orwell your residents and in Orwell the development in Orwell is the concern of the residents thank you recently we saw that a house after the NGT we all expected that the commission would come in place and then things would proceed from there can you explain why Mita's house was taken down although it was on the crown? from what I understand for one thing technically it was not Mita's house anymore so once she has left whose house was it? it becomes the foundation's house so the foundation in its wisdom perhaps out of a sense of spite against us has cut its own nose thank you can TDC demolish buildings that are on the radials and the crown before the commission's report we hear that there is a plan on Monday to clear the youth center to give an overall view on what are the rights so one of the things that the town development council has stated actually misstated it says in the judgment here the respondent is also at liberty to take action against unauthorized occupations if any strictly in accordance with the law in force now I wish the town development council would first engage a lawyer and ask them what that means first of all as residents of Auroville you are not unauthorized you are authorized, the act authorizes the occupation so this doesn't count second of all it shows nothing about buildings it's about occupants and occupations the secretary of the foundation is supposed to help foundation help this place by dealing with unauthorized occupations who are not Aurovillians that is the aim of this sentence and second of all it is not a direction to the foundation to do anything it is only clarifying that the foundation still holds the right as it always did to deal with unauthorized occupants strictly in accordance with the law even there there is a legal procedure you have to give notice it's not just you, oh yeah they are illegal so now I can do whatever I like it's not the way it goes and therefore they have not the authority to clear on the crown they have not which are buildings and especially if people are living in there they don't have the authority to do so Hi, just I'm intervening because there is something that's directly linked to this exact question and point there's a letter that is being circulated we are going to circulate a sign-up sheet if you guys would like to sign basically talking about that how because of the NGT judgment that nothing is allowed to happen whether construction or destruction and that the NGT is not to be misrepresented it's very clear so if you guys want to add your name to that letter the letter will be circulating as well as a sign-up sheet it's also online so if you've already done signed online please don't sign again on the paper but yeah, so the letters and can you give an idea of the content of what the letter is trying to say? the content is basically saying exactly what was just said now that they're not allowed to destroy anything and that they being the ATDC and the secretary that nothing is allowed to happen so that please just stop doing whatever you're doing yeah, so anyway the letter is going to circulate normally you shouldn't sign something without reading it first so please read it and then sign it or choose not to sign it whatever but you're highly encouraged to participate one more question I mean I have actually a few more recently the TDC put out a note that all construction should stop as per the NGT is this true or false? I don't know I think the intent was that all construction related to public projects and being carried out according to somebody's idea of a plan should stop because the plan is yet to be made that's one thing I mean I don't know if this also refers to your repairing your bathroom if it's the project area if it's talking about the project area then it's talking directly about the crown road so yes there it doesn't refer to that so then if it's a general comment saying don't build anything it doesn't make much sense the judgment basically refers to the foundation not doing anything so the foundation does not have the authority the secretary does not have the authority to put any signs and the town development council cannot authorize any development this I don't think this is my personal opinion I don't think that this has anything to do with oh I re-did my key through for whatever here's an opportunity for the community to be further educated I suggest you carry on building and if the foundation wants to do anything about it they will take you to court the question of this NOC has been coming up what buildings that were built prior to 2010 when the master camp plan came a lot of the early I mean Matramandar doesn't have an NOC as was pointed out so how do we interpret this NOC business and what is the legality of it by an illegitimate TDC here's an illegitimate TDC talking nonsense what legality can you apply to that the NOC is a community approved process it's not even officially approved it is just a general process that was created by the community in order to take that with legal validity one must actually be a town planning authority of Tamil Nadu or of India the TDC is none so this actually is not a the NOC is an agreement between us to develop for the master plan and to take or a will forward it is not being used to stop or destroy anything none of the NOC procedures we have in ATDC caters for destruction of any houses or assets but also what is the procedure if TDC has a procedure for defining an NOC let it put the procedure on the table so people know there is no such thing at the moment but I think we should have we should have NOCs and the town developing council whatever must have in place a process by which for new developments it gives you an NOC or denies an NOC not only that but it is also duty bound for buildings that were built 5, 10 or 20 years ago to inform you you have an NOC you don't have an NOC it can't one fine morning I say oh our records show that you don't have an NOC that is not on so I don't know how the community deals with this kind of a thing but it calls for some action there are other sort of things in place also here one is that the TDC must come clean about which buildings in Auroville they think have an NOC and which buildings they don't so that we all have clarity on this and we are developing and cleaning up this place but more importantly people get TNEB connection the TNEB only gives you a meter and connection once it is understood that the TDC has given their approval so whether they gave it on paper or not a building that has been standing in plain sight over the years that has gotten money from the central fund and which has a TNEB connection is known in Indian law as automatically having NOCs not having NOCs but having permission to be there there is a procedure then to actually take them out or to rebuild or destroy this and just coming in with JCBs is not going to work it's contrary to the law so this is my last question it came to our notice that some apartments that were staff quarters in Sayre were handed over by Sayre at the request of the foundation for foundation staff so it was discussed at this point with all the different groups dealing directly with the foundation but these groups exist on behalf of the residents assembly whether it's Sayre FAMC whether it's the working committee so since a lot of these things are happening in isolation between the groups and we only find out after the fact some people put up a sign up sheet requesting that any information to and from the foundation ought to be shared with the community in preference probably to the group before any answer is made that the collective wisdom and views of the residents are consulted so for that there is a sign up sheet there and that's a request we're making to our own internal working groups and now I'll let everybody else who have questions for Navarosa and Sandip to take over, thanks Thank you Renu for all these questions we did have one additional question that came do you want to ask it did you? Sure my question is because that's what is being discussed is why did you guys go as two individuals and why is it not the residents assembly that went to court on the you know because that is something that is sometimes asked That is a good question as I mentioned earlier one of our at least my motivation in going to court and dragging Sandip along with me was that there was an atmosphere and an environment created in Auroville where it was difficult for people to express themselves the atmosphere was such that people for speaking out were being targeted and victimized that is one aspect of it the second is that despite that I believe there was one petition which garnered 700 signatures as far as we were concerned that is enough of a statement by the community without specifically asking for anybody to go to court on its or anybody else's behalf I think well okay I can say from my side why I did when we have internal processes and we sort of in general are committed not to use external institutions and the aim that I see is so that we grow our own internal institutions and those institutions are far beyond far reaching beyond the conventional institutions that lie outside of Auroville's boundaries that's the aim of it but we have to at least reach the conventional boundaries and what happened on December was way way before we were below the boundary even in India outside this does not happen like this in a general legal process there is notices given and all kinds of setups first before this kind of clearance happens and there was a complete abuse of power and therefore when such a situation happens our institutions are not capable of dealing with the situation internally when if I were to say something and the TDC were to say something else we would just be at loggerheads we have to come to a point where we agree before we can move forward but if I say something and the TDC say something and they have police and all kinds of forces behind them then there is a problem and there is an imbalance in power and therefore the courts have been created to balance back this power it is a setup created for the individual against the state against an authority against a foundation against companies against big institutions so this is why I went to court now the question of do you want to say something one thing that mother had said was that freedom of speech and thought are essential preconditions for the pursuit of Shri Aurobin those yoga now the question of whether the residence assembly can go to court in all technicality it can there are no fetters on the residence assembly to sort of not do this but the problem is that we would have had to wait six weeks because the only setup we have is the RAD and it takes a minimum of six weeks to make a decision and I can't go to court saying I'm the residence assembly I have to have the residence assembly's actual consent on this so if we had a setup a process by which this could be done then yes the residence assembly can go to court the working committee can go to court but since we do not have it we as individuals we went thank you thank you for these answers so now the room is open the floor is open if you have questions please address them feel free to come and sit back I think that's going to be okay go for it so if you have any questions please raise your hand there is already a question go for it my question is regarding the DDP that you mentioned Navros that the community should draw up here I'm Arj hi so I was just wondering because the dream weavers went through this process and apparently there are the what are they called Vastushilpa foundation Vastushilpa foundations aren't they sort of working on a DDP that could help us don't they have the expertise to do that and how does this interplay the community coming up with the DDP and it coming from Vastushilpa Mr. question I'm not sure of what the process is for Auroville to come up with the DDP Vastushilpa anybody else has made outputs discussions and documentation which can all be used but there has to be some form of official body which is a part of the planning process and part of that it actually comes out with a DDP which is an extensive document which will refer to and call on many facets and aspects of the Auroville community to participate in it so it's not a matter of picking up a document it's a part of the community participating in it it's an entire process normally a DDP would take anything from six months to three years and it's just because that was an information that was published recently it seems that so far the Vastushilpa foundation and the and the Auroville foundation have not yet signed the contract so there is the dream weaver's outcome that we hope will be used but so far it seems that there is no yet signed contract with the foundation on one side the TDC and on the other side Vastushilpa foundation just to add that there is the master plan mandates a general procedure that DDPs are going to be built so first there is a master plan which is a vision document under that comes DDPs detailed development plans from that flows in one year implementation plans from that flows the project plans of each particular project and now once you have a detailed development plan that actually helps us to review the master plan every five years and that process of review and DDP must be done by the residence assembly it must be done exactly in the same way that the act has that the master plan was created that's what the master plan itself states so it doesn't actually matter in the end who does the DDP it must pass through the residence assembly first before it gets implemented that is the procedure established not by me the master plan procedures one point here is that given the fact that there is no TDP and we'll be waiting for years before TDP might be formed by the foundation I think it is high time that the community became proactive and through an RAD process establish a group a small group of architects town planners etc mandated to create a detailed development plan sorry so the next RAD will be moving towards creating a DDP it's a kickstart in the process basically and then the process might be longer than that so if you have questions Divya is I don't know where she is okay and please raise your hands when and unfortunately I see it's already 540 okay many hands raised here there is Edzard so my request would be that the questions and maybe more importantly the answers stay short because we have many people and yeah please thank you just very quickly I think I can say looking around here that there is a huge vast majority which would agree with me saying that these two gentlemen deserve a big thank you and I bow my head and that they did the right thing because we with our slow far too slow ARD schemes are simply too slow and they are doing fast action was needed and I think we can say please correct me if I'm wrong that we fully authorize as being completely by consensus here were authorized to do what they did thank you another another little question as the current DDC is a few people they were supposed to be a minimum of 9 or 11 people there are 2 or 3 none of them is elected or selected by the community and we are working on dismissing them and finding a new group which are selected and backed by the entire community now if the present DDC which is not having anything to do being authorized by the wider community is issuing any threatening letters NOCs or whatsoever and after we have been enlightened by the two of you by the legal means which the secretary lady and the small group of psycho funds actually do not have what are the best cause of action if they try to continue to act on this group which is actually a dysfunctional group thank you so I have a question to ask to Navros it's me Bertrand hello Navros Sandeep there was a response is there anything you just want to say in response to Hazard something to that I think apart from contending and non violently stopping illegal demolishing what we can do is write there's a thing about writing is that it's out there it's on record when we went to court the court asked so how did the residents feel and we were a little bit like because we didn't know how to show that there are a whole lot of residents supporting this supporting the moment to stop the development on the crown from the stay that we got in the NGT so it's very important for residents of Auroville to write it can be short, it can be your feelings it can be legal, it can be authoritative, it can be whatever but you must write to the TDC you must write to the foundation when you find that things are not in order that's very important go for it the question is to the matter of the Green Tribunal does the judgment apply to the entire master plan that is land that don't belong to Auroville or that it simply applies to the land that belongs to Auroville within the master plan in other words as the people that own land in the master plan are affected by the judgment in the same way as the foundation is well anything the court says to Auroville obviously applies only to that which belongs to Caesar what doesn't belong to Caesar Caesar can do nothing about not concerned by the judgment the Green Belt is in the master plan but any lands that we don't own the foundation doesn't own in the city area or the Green Belt we don't have jurisdiction over to make any judgment now when we make the detailed project plans the foundation has been told to decide whether those plans are for the lands we don't own or the lands that we do own and based on that we get the clearance correct okay one question more I read the full I'm here I read the full sentence of the Green Tribunal and I was very curious about this interpretation and proposal related just what we just said how do we develop in detail the plan considering the lands that we already own or considering the view of mother that include the land that we have not yet since I came to Auroville means almost 15 years ago my feeling that I want to share right now considering the inclusiveness and considering this joint committee that the Green Tribunal is already forming and the collector and so on I was reflecting it is the case that we form as well a committee to work together with them in the big scale in the view of mother means also land that really legally we don't possess but are part of our by origin belong to this area belong to this land belong to these people that really work with us is it possible and the dream waivers can be part of this commission thank you sorry are you referring to the joint committee or are you referring to what we do sorry sorry I refer just to the joint committee plus some Aurovillean that are already a build up group of the dream waivers made by our architect and to sit and discuss aspiration of territory goal of territory our aspiration how we can melt this was the idea sorry but you see the committee that the NGT has formed has a very very small and limited mandate it doesn't cover anything other than the ground where only that so you can we can't bring other wider issues concerning Auroville its neighbors the bio region into this it's separate but you're right I mean we have to address that wider issue as well so it's me so I have a question not to you but to all of us so very soon there will be vacancy in ATDC working committee vacancy in the council we need people in housing service in housing group who is going to step up because we are talking but then when there is a selection very few people come up so it's time to resist but from the group not outside thank you we all own the responsibility of what's going on also and that we step up in building Auroville Mita yeah I just want to say three things one of them it was from the NOC point it's just a minor point maybe but just for the record the extensions that Tapas and I made in 1996 and in 1999 and then what LOD the bathroom and their house all had temporary NOCs we did have NOC it's not that we didn't have it we had it but it was temporary because at that time the planning group I mean the development group it was called was only giving temporary NOCs in fact we all know from that time it was a big joke everybody had temporary only temporary NOCs very few people had permanent NOCs so we were part of that it was just a clarification for the record then my question is about the joint committee and we have the collector and I heard that the collector was right I think the NGT judgment came out on Thursday on a Thursday I can't remember exactly the collector was with the secretary on the Friday this is what I heard in Bharat Nivas and I want to know how much the joint committee actually work and actually do that it's not just a faff how will we make sure that the joint committee really has the input of the residents and will really make sure can we make a committee a bit like what Rosalba said for that part to work with it to say that on behalf of the residents these people are also going to do that study and give that to the joint committee and this should be on record that the joint committee considers in all of these places so that we make sure that the other like Darkali the rest of Darkali is protected Darkali had an alternative beautiful alternative Mahi had made beautiful drawings so you know that has to be you know respected or something we have to do something about the joint committee that it actually does the work that's my second point and my third point is you know we've come out there's been a list of 40 it's not just what happened to our house it's 40 structures there's a list of 40 structures which are supposed to be quote demolished right I think many of you have seen this list have you seen this list it even includes earth institute and so many you know all of sincerity practically all of that is on the thing so I think that we have to say what kind we as the residents we need to either update the master plan or you know it has to be updated all of these things are assets which we created all the villains created with so much struggle you know so much struggle we went through to create what we have created and these are assets and should not be demolished for some you know idea some people are convinced of some wacko perfect circle such things when actually I know I mean mother would want us to find the best solution you know together exactly the whole point is that we work together to find the best solution for everything and and our house should never have been demolished maybe it could have become a crown building that's why we were holding on why not and it's no we should say no sorry all these things it doesn't make sense and you don't put a line of force on a water body that doesn't work we have to find a solution we have to find some other solution so I'm all for finding a group of people that we authorize we say all of these flash points we get a group of people we have got Prashant, Latha Suhasini you know so many people we have who could actually be authorized by us to look at this thing one for the joint committee and two for all of these things for the master plan to find an alternative so at a practical level you don't need authorization from anybody if you want to do it you do it and I suggest you put a note out in news and notes or wherever inviting people to the first meeting to prepare materials to hand over to the NGT formed committee you can't sit here and do that if you want to form the group here you can do that here no problem with that but one is that and the other thing I was thinking you forgot was that on this NOC business it needs another committee an ad hoc committee of citizens which us the foundation office and the TDC the questions you want to raise what is the NOC what happens when the NOC was not given why were NOCs not given give us a list of every building in Auroville which has an NOC give us a list of every building that does not have an NOC along with reasons why NOC was not given if NOCs were denied that is something separate from NOC was not given because it just fell off the chart somewhere so all these questions you have to raise form a group 5-10 people start and go thank you Navros just a little point on timing so there are two more people is that what you're saying ok great it's 605 we said we wanted to finish by 6 so I'm just checking with the room if we can stay 10 more minutes we'll take the two remaining questions that Divya has in mind and then we'll just go to one or two last points on the agenda regarding updates and then we'll close is that ok with everyone super thank you go for it I'm on my question is not necessarily addressed to either Sandip or Navros but rather to all of us I have a lingering doubt in my mind regarding how to really stop the present actions of the foundations and the secretary in its tracks I think that's why Wazow left a bit in frustration and to me there's definitely sorry about that something very important about the numbers that we are I know that when we've acted in the past we've managed to achieve a lot and I'm wondering frankly if Monday if there is a call who will come who will come and I believe that if we all come the way we all came today here that a lot can be achieved a lot can be achieved not only in terms of us as a community because I've always believed in that strength of the community but also I believe that if anything does happen and if we are there in numbers to stop them first of all I believe we can stop them peaceably and second of all I think that they will have to rewrite their scenario that it's not going to be that simple that's it thank you I also hope we can all be there on Monday if there's a need or in the following days so hi I have a question about visas I don't think it's necessarily tied to the NOC or whatever but it's a major concern whenever we stand up for something that as a foreigner we have visas they are fragile as seen in the past recently there has been youths that have been either completely denied visas or have gotten three month visas is there something that we can do as the residents community or is there is there the right do they have the right does whoever is it allowed to give or deny visas in this manner and is there something that we can do as a community to stop this kind of playing with the visas because it really does affect us all in a very personal level especially when we're trying to stand up and speak or voice our opinions thanks for the question I can actually tell that there are actions being taken right now regarding the visas as far as I know I think there might be updates soon let's hope for good news at this point of time it's very clear that the way the foundation office is issuing visas is not in compliance with actually the law so we are hoping that action can be taken now let's see we all all of us who are foreigners in this country have a consul the consul represents us in this country if we write to the consuls and we tell them that we are being denied visas at one point there will be too many of these stories and it will create such an issue that it will be an issue already consuls are bringing this up with the secretary and I know from for as a valid fact that if there is enough different consuls that start hearing about this it will no longer be one country or another country it will become a huge issue between that transcends us just here in Orville because so I would advise anybody that has any issue with the visa write to your consul because there has to be a record if we all are afraid and quiet that's how they have the power I just would like I just would like to add for the record simply because this whole thing is being videoed and there are Indians and Tamilians here I think you should support our brothers and sisters who are foreigners and they should not be treated like second class citizens just because of their visa situation and just to add to that as well I think there is a letter a draft letter that has been circulated that is basically a model that you can use if you want to write to your embassies to the consul so we might I saw that pass somewhere I could find it again and maybe that could be circulated again that just to build up on what you and I were saying there is one last question actually and then we're closing the topic my question is about that we heard with including the letter of the ATDC that because of the judgment now they have the right to proceed with Crown Road and that's why they demolished one building beautiful house because based on the judgment they have taken an action can they now appeal the judgment because we are also hearing that the rest does not suit them so they want to appeal the whole thing but as they have already taken an action based on the judgment legally I imagine that they have no right to appeal it anymore just one aspect of this appeal an appeal has to rest on some substantive ground and again it's a very subjective and personal reading of the order that we might have and we see no substance in the order that gives them any kind of comfort I don't say that merely to say what a good order it was for us which it was but see one other thing that came to my mind was if they have been saying that they the Auroville Foundation the governing board and the secretary are Auroville then why haven't they gone to the Supreme Court why have they not gone to the Supreme Court they are the first injured party but they haven't and this in part to answer a whole lot of questions that have come up here and I wish to reaffirm that it is not them but this assembly the residence assembly is in charge just to in the end we can argue about whether they can appeal or not but it's all academic it's all under the discretion of the Madras High Court or the Supreme Court of India and they will decide whether an appeal should be allowed or not and that is if the foundation does appeal generally there is a time limit but in which case they would also if they were to act legally they would also have to submit that they have gone and destroyed a building based on the NGT and then the Supreme Court says whether an appeal is allowed or not but that's Thank you for this clarification and I think we can close with the NGT topic which took quite a lot of time we have a last point which was a little update from the youth center on how things went since these email exchanges with the ATDC so I'm just wondering if a member of the youth center team would like to yeah, thanks Sasha Hello everyone so any one of you aware of the email that has been sent to youth center from the ATDC in short for those of you who haven't read it we've been asked to kindly dismantle all the unauthorized buildings structures we have posted this email on Oronet and we've also posted our official reply from the youth center team to this email I hope you read it, it was lovely so we try to basically ask them what do they mean by unauthorized buildings and in short today we've met with Anbu in presence of one of the Orval Council members Syrian was there with me Manolo and Deep and he had come to the site and said okay well there are no new buildings built on the crown I see so what is this mail all about he was genuinely confused about it so we went and took the meeting to the TDC office now I'm not sure if this is where my confusion comes in from the YC side we've had the meeting just this afternoon or morning and we haven't yet finalized the minutes but TDC is close tomorrow so if we send them a request to approve our minutes and compare our minutes on Monday they come so I'll tell you in short from the foundation but I also like to add that the email if you read it carefully enough they do not state that they're going to come with JCBs they're just saying kindly dismantle all unauthorized structures and in meeting they haven't once mentioned that they're going to come only once when I asked are you going to carry out that order did Toby actually say yes and it was asked later that refers to 70% of Oroville and the reply was yes and there was a bit of small argument there but it's going to be on the minutes so in the end we are in the situation where we don't act again we don't know we're under huge time pressure we don't know what's going to happen on Monday so we're just taking precautions we've also asked the TDC at that meeting to please consult with the foundation once again because 4 day notice is a little bit ridiculous to dismantle YC so they've just Syrian has asked to to just give us more time to talk with the ATDC and the foundation and maybe we can find some way to talk about it what else that's the update that's the update basically on my side I just want to add that I'm very grateful for Navros and Sandeep's inputs in this they've given me a lot of and the YC team I hope who have been here listening to what they're saying a lot of courage and hope because knowing what had happened in the past in December anything may happen and as Divya correctly said you got to do what you got to do in the end you got to stand there and say look and if they push you they push you what to do so there was the question from somebody who will come right so you can all come just don't get handsy you'll be provoked I'm pretty sure this whole thing from my perspective it's a giant provocation and it is imposed on to youth because we are seen as these reactive personalities and unaware but we're not that so we're ready thank you one more thing I'd like to add there was that topic of Machu Mandir not having an NOC that was quite funny but Toby did say that it is in the master plan so it's not going to be dismantled because it's in the master plan well the vocational training center is in the master plan it's just that the time didn't give us the right plot so this is where I guess if we do talk this is where we'd have to start that it's not our fault of our generation where we are in youth center right now and we do not I mean we will comply with any legal request but illegal request we will decline an object which we did object we sent legal mail yesterday evening as well objecting and forwarding it to the working committee foundation council and FMC objecting the email and that's where we're at we hope you come if something's happening one more thing I'd like to add because there was this topic of visas and fear and all this thank you Yona who said contact your consulate if you guys fellow civilians can help me out which state my country is in I'm from Russia consulting my consulate might send me somewhere else so I'm not going to do any of that and I do have kids and officially I'm still a child of Orville 26 year old child of Orville with children and I'm going to be there so I hope you will support us if anything happens otherwise this is just a big farce and we are tired of it