 We'll switch over to Betsy and Faye and Amy and anyone else that jump on here with us in regards to our education bill. And Faye, I guess if you want to give us a little update on what we talked about, hooking the three different proposals together and into one bill that seemed to make sense. If you could talk a little bit about that, I guess Jim was supposed to be here. But like normally, he was booked up already or busy somewhere. So if you could lead off, we know all you folks and just introduce yourselves as your turn comes up. That'll be fine. So welcome and good to see you. Yeah, good morning. My name is Faye Mack. I am here from Hunger Free Vermont today. Thanks for having us back in. So just to share a little bit of an update and frame out this conversation today, Senator Star had reached out to us about the idea of there are a lot of food security and local food related requests this year and opportunities. And is there a way to address a few of them holistically and comprehensively because we know that they all are needed to work together in order to feed the full system. And so Hunger Free and Vermont Feed and some other folks connected and the three where we really found some alignment around how to sort of holistically have a single bill is around how we're feeding kids at school. So focusing in on school food, knowing that there are a couple of other food security and local agriculture related requests, appropriations requests like Vermonters Feeding Vermonters and the NOFA Farm Sheriff Program. But those feel separate because they're not part of the institutions of schools. But there are three school related opportunities, universal school meals, the local purchasing incentive, also called Vermont Food for Vermont Kids, and fully funding from just school at $500,000 are all connected within how we're feeding kids when they're at school and the ways that local agriculture connects into that. And so we're really excited about the idea of approaching all three together. One of the things that became really clear in hearing testimony from our partners over the last couple of weeks is just how interrelated they are and how the support that comes from a fully funded farm to school program is really needed to be able to provide the technical assistance to make the local purchasing incentive successful and strong. The local purchasing bill would help schools offset the cost of universal school meals and improve meal quality. So they're also connected that it makes a lot of sense to look at them together. So we're excited about the opportunity. And today I think the hope is just to talk about what that might look like and what the process would be. And if Jim is able to join at some point or afterwards, we're happy to work directly with him or Mike on Ledge Council in helping to craft this too in whatever way we can be helpful. Well, with as many programs as there are out there, I just feel that as we move forward, if we can have a packaged program that works well together as well as our students, that'll be great. And I know the feds are talking even about having some type of a federal deal with universal meals. And if we've got a system that's pretty well ready to go and that breaks loose, we could get into that system really quick. And so that's good that we're working in that direction. The committee, what do you think in regards to that? No comments. We've got them all tongue-tied. It seems like a good approach. I think so. Have you gotten to the point where you could probably get no drafting has been done yet? We aren't able to work with Ledge Council directly unless you or another senator gives us permission. So we need a written or verbal on this or some way for Jim or Michael Grady to get instruction to connect with us. And then we're able to do that. We haven't been able to get that. We haven't gotten that yet. Linda, are you on, Linda? Yes. Did you get that word to Jim in regards to working with Bay and Betsy and the crew to work on that? Work on that? All I've done so far is invite him to this meeting, which he couldn't come to, and ask him if he'd been in touch, which I believe he's gotten correspondence from Bay and Betsy and Amy. But I'll find out how to officially let him know so he can take it over. Yeah, I thought we'd taken care of that. So we'll keep working on it. Yeah, Chris? Well, maybe Anthony had a question. I don't want to jump. I was just saying the thing to do is to send an email to Jim and to Fay and to a few others. Connect them all in an email with Bobby or one of our names on it and say that Jim, we'd like you to work with these folks to do whatever. So send everybody an email to Jim, to Fay, to Betsy, and to Amy and say, we want you to work with these folks. Mr. Chairman, would you like me to do that right now? You could, but I thought that's what was happening from the office. But yeah, go ahead. And if we double send it, it won't do any harm. I'll take care of that, Linda. And I'll copy you and the chair. Thank you. And I will say that both the local incentive purchasing bill and the universal school meals bill have been introduced in the House. So there's language. So I think we can move, you know, it can come together pretty quickly once we're able to get going. And you would want the language to be the same? Yes. And you would see a need to change or work on, build on what they've done? No, I think we're really interested once your committee and whoever else this kind of bill would go to starts to take a look at it about what kinds of changes may arise. But I think at the moment, at least I looked at Betsy for the local purchasing language. But from the universal school meals language, we're really happy with what was introduced in the House and as a good starting point. And Betsy? Just that I believe the House bill that was introduced was the same local purchasing incentive bill that passed out of your committee last year. So I think there is a section about corrections that might, I don't know if that remains or if it's a school nutrition focus, maybe that goes somewhere else in legislation. But we'd be happy to do that. And I just would ask the committee and Mr. Chair, if there's anything we can do to best support you to get the information you need for this to move it along, is that somebody with a question? No. The corrections part, I don't recall. We had that in there last year in our bill. I think we did, yeah. And Betsy, are you asking if that should come out and just deal with the school? And if we leave corrections in, then probably Searsville would want to look at it because he looks after the corrections issues. And I think if we could keep it narrowed where only ag education and hopefully appropriations would be the three committees that would have to deal with it, it would be easier. And as long as we're on this, have any of you folks have been in education already? No? So we don't know. Yeah, we have not this year. Well, it's going to be important that you get hold of Chairman Brian and get an appointment in there. But I think him being new, you might want to go in only once because the kind of the rough draft has been put together. And I don't know if there were other major changes to the committee makeup in there or not. Do you guys know anything about that? Yeah, I can tell you. Cheryl Hooker is the vice chair. She's new on the committee. Thomas Chittenden is a brand new senator. And Josh Tieranzini is a brand new senator. So there's I think we're talking about it last year. And all Lions might be a new member too. Oh, goodness. But yeah, with Chittenden County, several from Chittenden County on there, it might be a very positive thing because they've been pushing universal meals in Chittenden County for a long time. And they have a very successful program. And so that might be good. And then you have two from Rotland on there. And they could certainly, they would be helpful. But Campion, I don't know if we got to talk with him about this last year much. But I think he would be very understanding of the issues. Chris? I would guess they are understanding. Everyone's going to love this idea. It's just going to be, how do we pay for it? So do we have some strategy that's cooking up? I know we've been in this sort of de facto universal meal time. And so I'm just curious, maybe I missed that part. But do we have Mr. Chair, have you guys figured that out already? No. As my wife has heard me say many times, I don't get too concerned over the money. You can usually find it if you've got enough people looking for it. But I think a positive thing we've got going is that Washington, they keep talking about all this money for education. Well, hundreds of millions of dollars. Well, we've already given them hundreds of millions already for our 80 odd thousand students. And there should be some of this federal money that at least could get this thing kicked off and running. And it's going to prove that it's all worth it if we can do the, so they're talking about a universal meals program in DC. So I think the money will be there if we get the program put together. And it makes good common sense to move forward. I've talked to it with Jane to some degree about it. And she, well, let's get it put together. And we'll go from there. My attitude is if we're adding local incentive to help farmers, this is a 30-0 vote. I mean, this is, I could be wrong, but it's a good idea. So I'm all for putting it together. And if we don't put it together and then money comes along, someone else will gobble it up. So we should be ready for that. That's a smart strategy. Yeah. So, yes, I wanted to say I can chime in a little bit around the cost and the federal conversation, too, if it's helpful just to provide a context of what we're hearing. And also to say I really appreciate the note about Senate education this year. And we haven't been able to get in there. And we would love to. And perhaps just to offer, if it makes sense for there to be a joint hearing at some point, since you folks have a really deep knowledge about these bills, that could be an interesting way to introduce it as well and have a conversation with the Education Committee. But in terms of expense, so I can share that we're finalizing a new round of our estimate on the financial impact that universal school meals would have on the Education Fund. And so we'll have data from both the fall of 2018 and the fall of 2019. So we have two years worth of costs to take data to take a look at for our estimate. And we're in the process of working with the Joint Fiscal Office on I think they're likely developing a new fiscal note this year for it. So there will be more information. I can say from our, I was just looking at it before this. And looking at 2019 data, we're coming out pretty close to where we had come out with 2018 data. So it's remaining pretty consistent, which makes me feel really confident in the estimate. I also just to say at the federal level, there are options, certainly, if more funding comes into the state, absolutely. And at the same time, I know that there is a lot of information swirling around how Congress might shift the school meals and move toward universal school meals. Our sense is that there is likely opportunity to enhance the weight, the two federal options where that schools can use to go to universal school meals. So either making more schools eligible for the community eligibility provision, which is the one that works a little bit better for schools, or to just increase the financial reimbursements that schools would get. I believe the Senator Sanders is planning to reintroduce his full universal school meals bill again this year. That I just I think we're really excited about that and excited to work on it. And I think it's going to take a while. So the view or just the way that I've heard you, Mr. Chair, and others talk about having a Vermont be well set up to take advantage of these opportunities as they come from the federal government, I think is really smart and will allow us to kind of keep moving and not just have to wait for whatever Congress may or may not be able to. Yeah, Amy. Hello. For the record, Amy Schellenberger. And I work with both Hunger Free Vermont and the Farm to School Network. I just want to Senator Pearson's question. I wanted to highlight also two other things in addition to what Faye said. The first is the universal school meal does envision a pot of one time money to help schools with the transition to universal school meals, which might be more readily available this year. So even if the whole bill doesn't move forward this year, perhaps getting that pot of money set up so that schools could have access to it to Senator Starr's point if things are percolating, then we would be ready for that. The other thing that's a relatively small but ongoing appropriation in the universal school meals bill is the position, another position in the child nutrition program at the agency of education. And we are thinking that more schools may be transitioning over to universal meals regardless of whether the bill passes or not, because nothing prohibits them from doing it. And we would like to make sure that the agency has the capacity to help those programs or those schools transition. So those are two things that are a smaller price tag. One is one time, one is ongoing. And that coupled with the local food incentive could really help schools to move towards universal meals as we go forward. Yeah, I know Rosie I think testified to the point that she's booked up pretty solid in that the main thing is to go slow but have stuff lined up. But that's where the new employee would be housed is over in education as a nutritionist. Yes, in the nutrition program as a basically a help, a support person for schools. Could I also ask a clarifying question, Senator Starr? So when we're working with Ledge Council, we'll probably have to know this answer, whether you're envisioning this to be a committee bill or whether you're thinking you'll introduce it and then get it referred. Well, I don't see if the committee is agreeable. We just make it a committee bill. The committee bill is really a lot stronger bill than an individual bill. And if the committee feels comfortable, we would draft it up as the committee bill. It would go almost direct come to committee but be on the floor the next day but have it referred back to committee for further review. And then try to put the finishing touches on it with education. But we've got to get those folks involved because that'll make, if you get our five and their five, that's a third of the Senate already that you've got on your side. So you only need five more or six more in your home free. I think they have six. They have six? I think so. Oh. Oh, so they aren't a committee of five. No, they do have six. Yep. Hell, we could even lose one of them and still have 10. But how about your new guy, Brian, from Rotland that's in there? Is he and kid's well-being and all that good stuff? Well, he's got four kids. So I think he's pretty much on board. Well, it must cost him a lot every week just to feed them. But in a case like that, can you imagine if it costs four dollars a meal? So you got 16 bucks a day for five days and 70 bucks just to pay for hot lunch. I mean, 70 bucks a week. That's yeah, it can't be can't be easy. So yeah, so is that answer your question? Amy, did you ask that? Yes, I did. And thank you. And we were hoping you would say it was a committee bill. So I'm I'm glad that's the route you're going. Thank you. It's a good thing you told me to say that. No, no, no, a committee bill is is the best way to to go, you know, on a especially on a big bill, you, you don't want to just have one name stuck up there. So we'll I think we'll keep working on this until we can get it where, you know, all the members are happy and could sign on. We'll work off the draft as long as we can to work again, working at toward a committee bill. Yeah. So there are other questions that you folks would like to raise, Anthony. Yeah, this is I want to ask just about the farm share program. You folks are obviously familiar with them. Does it fit into a package that you're looking at or is it separate? So we talked with NOFA who is the lead with that request and they run that program. And it's it's not connected with schools. And that was where the request feel really connected with schools. The farm share program is an appropriations request to it doesn't need to be part of a bill. So they're hoping to have that funded through that way. That's what I presume that because it's not it's not really legislated except that the money goes to somebody to administer the money. But you folks will certainly be supportive of that. Yeah, absolutely. We're very supportive of that and we're very supportive of the Vermont food banks requests as well, too, as kind of rounding out the food security picture. I know I'm going to presume. So I just want to make sure it was on the table. Yes. Yeah, and both of those issues deal basically with just money. You know, it isn't like we need to put a bill together. So so the the three the three issues we have are program policy issues. So I think if if we do a good job putting that together, I don't know, Chris, we get a 30 zip vote. But if we can get Calla more and parent on it might be. I mean, I don't know about Calla more, but apparently could break his arm. I mean, if senators, if senators don't like kids or farmers, then they can vote. No, that seems that would surprise me. Well, I don't have four kids like Zini, but I have a two and a half year old. So I get it. They don't like farmers. They probably shouldn't be on this committee. Yeah. Now, this the secret of the secret violation pass and especially in the committee is to you keep working on it until the whole crew basically can agree upon it. And and, you know, sometimes. Over in the house, I worked with a chair for years over there and worked with, you know, with the minority party as the majority party in my committee room. And and that's the way the way I learned to do it, to get stuff done. And and I think that it was, you know, quite successful. You don't maybe get everything you want, but you get a good bill that everyone can support and move forward. And and the end game is to get to the goalpost whether it was something and even if it's a three-pointer, you're better off getting there than than you're not. And then you are not getting there at all. So so anyways, are there other questions of our our guests this morning? If not, and do you folks have any further suggestions for us? No, everybody. Chris, well, just to say, we've already connected Jim and our panel here by email. So that is up and running. Good. Good. And that's a. Just if there was particular timing, you'd like us to work towards when you'd like to see this back in committee? Well, I we're going to do their chicken bill next week, I hope. And and we we've got, you know, we need to get yours going as soon as we can. So, you know, because if we don't hustle along, we want to I think by crossover date, we want this baby to cross over to the house. So, you know, as soon as you guys feel comfortable, that it's where you want it to be or where you think it it should be. Get back with us with a day or two of notice so that we can get it plugged into the schedule. And we'll try to. I don't know. I think that's a good idea if we could and once we get a handle on it and know where we are, we'll have a joint hearing with education to present it to them so they can for an hour or half hour night, take just to get them on to thinking about it. Any other ideas? No, good. The well, I think I think we're starting to roll in the right direction. It isn't that we haven't been thinking about it. We've heard a lot of so if there are no other questions and before it lets you go any time, you know, you feel that we need to hear something from you. You know, don't be shy. Let us let us know and and we'll we'll figure out the issue. So with that, thanks a lot for for your time today. And hopefully we'll get some apples coming off that tree. Oh, very much. Yes, thank you so much. Thanks. So so what else? Is there anything else that you guys want to get going on? Hopefully we can do that. The rewrite of the on firm composting foraging bill would be good to get that out next week, if we could. We didn't change much either, did we? Are we we're not planning on changing much of it? Well, this is where the the the ag agency's language here. Yeah, yeah. He wants to deal with what did he call them? Soil implements more broadly. And my attitude is I'm open to that if it means the two agencies are supportive. Yeah, only because we've got to have A&R with us or it'll never move out of the next room. And and I mean, they've got to be with us very supportably to convince them to even do it. I wouldn't want to hold that bill up. You know what I mean? No, because we got it passed last year. We just never got it across the other body. Yeah, Corey. So I another thing that I want to take up to and I think in light of of what the Natural Resources Committee is doing when the governor's executive order, I don't have any confidence that committee will do anything on Act 250 for the next two years in all honesty. I know there's some agricultural pieces there. So I don't know if it makes sense to talk to Becca. My understanding is the House may take up some small Act 250 pieces on agriculture in their Ag Committee. So I don't know if we just I want to potentially take some looks at that. I know it's a different strategy there, but there's some work that needs to be done on the agricultural end. And then, you know, I don't I don't think the committee is going to be able to do it. So I don't know if we could maybe do some work in here to get it done. What what are the issues? I think I'll have a bill language in the next couple of days that I can start to prime people on. Um, because. I mean, I don't know. I think you guys, yeah, you guys, we all were there when when we were told that, you know, we should be working on COVID issues at least this first half until after town meeting. And, you know, I I don't want to get bogged down with something that that's going to derail the two items that we've been talking about getting done. Um, I, you know, I think I think we should, I mean, I think we can wish Act 250 changes are probably related in the sense that a lot of these farmers have struggled through COVID and some of these relief in Act 250 may help them with their on farm accessory businesses. Well, if if they're if there's something there that we can tweak the law, like a lot of on farm accessory businesses we already dealt with, you know, and exempted them from shit about everything that you could get nailed with. I mean, we got they can build small houses for weekend guests on on land. They can put five on an acre or two. You know, they can hold events that are almost exempt free. You know, we've done quite a bit of stuff to enhance on farm businesses, I thought. So as soon as you get I'll bring the ideas as soon as they have them all put together. Yeah, that would be the best way. You know, if it's stuff like that, that we that we did that made sense, it rolled along pretty good. I think Chris, you guys passed the that bill last year on the on the small, tiny houses. Yep. Yep. That was and I think it went into law in the miscellaneous tax bill. Yes. So the homesteads a little more straightforward. Yeah, Brian, I was just trying to figure out when crossover is. Is it so we got we were off town meeting week. Yeah, we're back the following week. So that would be the second week we're back. If that Friday, that Friday on the second week of March is crossed over March 12, then, yeah, yeah. So, you know, you can't you can't dub around too long. You know, we've got to keep moving forward here. Chris, I wouldn't want to jeopardize any of the bills we've been just talking about. But I've talked to some of you about this called right to repair on AG equipment. The house has taken some hearings. I filed the bill, but I think some of our editing staff have been out. So so we haven't seen it yet. But and it might make perfect sense for the end of March or something. But I just wouldn't want that to be totally off center, Polina co-sponsor in the basic idea is particularly during the pandemic. Do we really need to force everybody to go to an authorized dealer went to fix their own tractor or whatever. So it's an interesting issue. I hope we could take some hearings on it, but not at the expense of some of the things we've just outlined. Yeah, no. Yeah, no. And so we'll have that Coriel Coriel have his ideas and the we'll try to get Dan in next week, somewhere is in the schedule so that we can figure out if there is something that we haven't caught on yet with and he suggests and and we think it's a move forward. We could get something across before crossover, but that'll be a secondary issue from the two main issues. Chris, I'm reminded it'd be good to get Ryan in to find out really, what are we talking about? What do they need for payment or ecosystem services? I don't want that to drop if it all possible. Yeah, but it may not. I don't think it's a bill, but there's got to be some requests. So I would at least maybe we would all do well to understand that. Yeah, well, I think Linda's probably listening. So we'll jot that down and then when we work the schedule, it's pretty on zoom. It's it's pretty easy to switch gears because the witnesses don't have to travel to Montpelier. You know, if they're in an office or at home, they can pick the phone up and take, you know, 20 minutes, half hour or hour. And then they're back doing their their regular work. So I think we should be able to do that fine. Um, so any anything else that anyone wants to bring up that we should be dealing with and here, you know, this week. Yeah. And, well, hopefully, Michael will be with us tomorrow. Linda, are you still on? Oh, yeah. Is Michael supposed to be on with us tomorrow? He'll be here from nine to 10. And then he has to bounce over to someplace else. But Kelly will be here from 10 to 10, 45 to continue taking your advice. Yeah. And, um, yeah, then we've got a bunch of agri-mart group of agri-mart farmers late tomorrow morning. So we'll we'll have them in. Well, I guess we're we're good to go. Brian, maybe I'll take Corey along as your assistant so he can get in and see the governor. Yeah, that talking with a neighbor's kid or something. Yeah, that's not like talking to the governor himself, the apparent. Well, we'll we'll call it a morning folks and we'll see you on the floor.