 Well, welcome to another post-tweet jam, so collab talk, tweet jam discussion, and I've got a great topic today where we're going to be talking about are your customers still asking which tool and when, which is a popular question for the Microsoft 365 platform. Joining me today is Martina Grom, the CEO of Atwork and a Microsoft Regional Director and dual MVP in Office Apps and Services as well as Azure. Congratulations on that. There's a lot of content to maintain that the dual MVP status, so props to you for that. Yeah, and thanks for the invitation, Christian. It's a lot of content to maintain, but if you like the content you need to maintain, it's much easier to process this, but it's huge, especially Azure, and I'm more specialized in Azure security right now. It's not the whole EIS part and so on, so it's all around security, but this is a lot, but I still, I love the technology and I love to learn new things. That's great. A little bit about your company, what you guys do and focus on? Yeah, Atwork is located in Austria in Vienna, and we are focusing on Cloud solutions around Microsoft Azure, around Microsoft 365. We do a lot of governance consulting services and so on, and we also develop our own products like delegate 365 or governance toolkits and so on, so it's kind of a split company. One part is more in the product side, and the other one is more on the consulting and strategy side. Well, I know that this topic again gets to the heart of what your company does and your expertise, and we both go way back as SharePoint MVPs, and we are Yammer fans and Microsoft Teams of course, so kind of all of those in one drive, you can't forget that within the workloads, but so let's kind of dive in. So this is seven questions, love to get your opinion on all of these. So question number one, we started out saying in your view, which features and tools are driving the most growth and adoption of the Microsoft 365 platform and why? So currently and due to the pandemic in 2020, it's in my opinion, it's Microsoft Teams because people needed the tool to collaborate and to communicate on a day-to-day basis, and Microsoft Teams is a perfect toolset if you have that, and if you work in the Microsoft Universe, if you are on another planet or Universe, you probably walked away with other tools, but I see a lot of adoption around Microsoft Teams, and I see also that my customers are really thankful for having tools like that to stay connected. You know what's interesting is that we saw a lot again with that SharePoint history, organizations would go in and build these complex tool sets and platforms where they're trying to bundle features together and capabilities and link to line of business applications and all that capability. A lot of that work, look, there's still that, those efforts are still underway, but so much of that is gone now that you have this out-of-the-box service of Microsoft Teams, which does allow you to surface all of those other tools and solutions, especially if your organizations from a governance standpoint that struggle with shadow IT, if people using these third-party tools and things that are out there, they can relax a lot of those restrictions, not to say they shouldn't go and try and consolidate and clean up and align to the business, like these are our standard solutions, but if there's a business unit that has a specialized need for a third-party project management tool that's specific to the customers that are working with, they can do that and surface that as a tab within Microsoft Teams. That's a new thing and there's not a development effort needed to go and integrate that into the SharePoint intranet, which was the historical path. Yeah. It was like customers still looking at the one solution which fits all, and there are many tools who try that, but you need an integrated solution, but also people get it to use more tools on the day-to-day basis. Yeah. Well, something else I commented on, and we'll talk about a little bit later, one of the other questions too, but Yammer growth is happening again, which is exciting to see. It's funny, people that are within the SharePoint community, there are a lot of haters out there on Yammer, and I was a Yammer fan and user prior to Microsoft acquiring the platform, but I think recognizing the frustration was the lack of integration. Microsoft acquired the company, made a bunch of promises, and then didn't deliver, and it's standalone. I think a lot of where the, which tool do I use and when do I use it happen because I think that really was created after the Yammer acquisition. Well, where should I do this now? Yeah. Also, it's like if you're not deep into the specific services, you do not know the differences, and it's from your perspective, it's probably, oh, it's just another tool who does the same like all other tools. So why should I use that? This is also something which need to be explained a little bit better from our perspective and to bring use cases to customers. We're going to dive into that in some of the other questions. So let's see, question number two. So are your customers or your organization still asking which Microsoft 365 tools to use and when? So are you hearing that question or a version of that question with customers? Yeah. I'm still hearing that question, and I think it's still a legitimate question because it's like when you start or if you start your Microsoft 365 journey, you probably don't want to use all tools from the beginning on because you need to learn about that. You said, okay, I'm switching my mail services, I'm switching SharePoint, I'm moving into Teams. So probably, Yama might be too much in the beginning, but might be relevant a little bit later. So it's like it really depends on the maturity of the company, and I see a lot of talks about that. Also, for instance, now we have a new webinar feature within Microsoft Teams, and now I got the questions. What should I use now? Is it a meeting, is it a life event, or is it a webinar? I don't know. This is the explanation users need to get and answers that they see, okay, what am I using, for which use case I have in my organization. Well, I think guidance for any IT organization in the company, when you have questions like that, rather than get frustrated, like why do we keep hearing about this? We use SharePoint or we use Teams this way, whatever it is, there's obviously a gap in the education process, the training of end users. Maybe you have some missing scenarios to fill some gaps, and so you should look at it, this Microsoft Speak here as an opportunity to go and review and say, okay, what are we missing here? Is it because a lot of times, let's say it's fair to say that it's an end user education opportunity. It's less so where there's a gap in the technology. It's more of, let me help you understand this is how they're used, and instead of just saying, well, which is the right tool to use one, say, well, here understand different scenarios for this and use the one that is most appropriate and fits with the intended goal. Also, what I think it's really important is that people have a choice to use those tools, the like and the love, and this is also if Microsoft would give only the one and only tool and name it, this is Microsoft 365, do whatever you want with that. It would be not enough for the people because they said, yeah, but I want this and that, and I want the pink one and the blue one and the yellow one. It's like in private life on your private device, you are using different apps for different scenarios, and it's the same. Right. Well, that's a great way to put it as well. It's like you think about when people, if they are validly asking that question, which tool and confuse, I don't understand with all the tools that are out there, and just say like, look at what's on your phone. Yeah. Exactly. This is what I do. I have like five or six chat tools. Why do I have that? Because different constituencies, when I'm talking with my family members, when I'm talking with community members, when I'm talking with like I'm on Clubhouse, and there's people that are not part of the Microsoft 365 community that are largely out on there, it's other constituencies, different tools for different use, and I know which ones to use when. If I'm going to share a message about a family activity happening this weekend, I'm not going to go out to Twitter. Yeah. It's the same and it's also in my history, I always looked at other tools, I needed to learn about Google Apps, I needed to learn about Zoom, what are they doing better? Why are people loving that? Otherwise, you're stuck in a little house which is probably called Microsoft, but there's a whole planet out there. Yeah. Exactly. Well, let's jump in. So we've got three more focused questions here. So question three, is Microsoft Teams changing the way that your customers, your organization collaborate? Has it become your hub for teamwork? That's a clear answer and it's yes, because we are all spending the last months at home, working on the screen, talking to a screen, collaborating on the screen, and team was incredible helpful to keep us connected, kind of, and also to support us in our day-to-day work. So it's like, so that the most used collaboration tool is still Outlook and email. Yeah. But the whole communication part, like instant communication or in instant chat or a call or seeing other people is delivered through Teams, and this is why it's important for organizations. Well, one thing too is that when you think of, again, SharePoint as an internet and being that hub prior to Teams, and building out to add all these features in, and really it was SharePoint as that Swiss Army knife idea that you can make it whatever you want it to be, and so it got stretched in every different direction, and didn't do that great of a job in most of those directions, great of the core capabilities. So Teams, like when I launched my own company from day one, which was that January, so four years ago, was when Teams was launched. Starting using Teams day one with two or more people, we found productivity in that as the features were added and it did more and more, like we did more and more, we found chat, yes, but meetings like this doing something and then hitting record and getting the transcripts and automatically making that part of our information records. It just became part of the way that we worked, and so it was great to have that capability. Maybe that's a key difference is SharePoint versus Teams, where SharePoint has largely been more of a mid to enterprise-sized company solution, and small to medium businesses were left out, saying it was too expensive or too much of an IT overhead to maintain that and used all these other third-party solutions. Now, Teams can solve that need for a two-three-person organization as well as a 200,000-person organization. Yeah, it's true. Also, it's like the same if you're compared with Outlook or Exchange, Outlook can do a lot of things. It can do project management, delivering emails, manage your calendar, and so on, but it can't do everything very well. You can do everything with it, as you can do everything with SharePoint, but there's a missing piece. Right. Well, and I think that's too. Which tool to use when? Probably the most frustrating answer to that question for customers, for end-users is, well, it depends. But it really should be the beginning of a conversation of what are you trying to accomplish. The answer will be different. I mean, what's the best practice for my organization may not be the best practice for yours, which neither of ours will be a best practice for this massive enterprise. That's what we have options. There are some organizations that the culture of collaboration. I assume that you're given your team's background and focus, and our focus around collaboration technology, we're collaboration-centric. Other organizations are very email-centric. Others are very portal, workflow-centric, and so they can have heavier usage of that capability, of each of those capabilities, but still interact with those other business units that have a different collaboration culture, and it still work. Exactly. Teams provides a good baseline for all that core capabilities into each of these. It does, and also, Microsoft did a pretty good job last year, because they delivered very fast, they scaled, and they really supported a lot of organizations. Well, you brought up the example of the webinar type, the features, the cable, some of which are still coming, but a lot of that was a reaction where, I think at the beginning of last year, they kept saying, well, that's not what our technology is. It's not meant to be a webinar, and all of us at the community said, well, it should. You should think about that, and add those features. So we're not having to go and pay those other third-party fees and services. Yeah. Well, question four is, while SharePoint remains the top solution for Intranets, has its role evolved with your customers and organization? So for me, yes, because SharePoint delivers a lot of things, and if I talk about SharePoint, I always mean one drive as well. Because it's part of the SharePoint universe for me, and I see SharePoint supports people working from everywhere. If they are working file-centric, they have their documents with them, they can work from everywhere and so on. Then you have another part like Intranets or the collaboration part where I see we work together on the project, we need to collaborate on the team side in SharePoint and so on. Now with the new colors like Microsoft, Weaver and the whole integration in there, people really like that. They said, oh, Martina, can we talk about the new Intranets because we are planning something? It looks very promising what Microsoft delivered through Weaver, and we have a whole integration part, and people really like that a lot currently. Well, I think Weaver is starting to, I know that's a much bigger topic, starting to deliver on that promise of, you've got all this data, it's all in there and now you even have more ad hoc collaboration and transactional data that's coming through all the interactions via teams, your documents in SharePoint, all of that stuff, all of your files, how do we start leveraging that? How do we start tapping into that knowledge and surfacing data so it's not just about search, but automated ways that you can better leverage this capability and do it in a way that is mindful of meeting burnout is a real thing, screen fatigue in general, and delivering data that is more thoughtful of the way that we work and our individual organizational needs. Definitely. Well, if you talk about Microsoft Teams or OneDrive, I mean SharePoint is under the hood for both those solutions. But is there less of a need to talk about to know about SharePoint? Yeah. I'm a person who really wants to understand what is below everything so I was always interested in Teams architecture as well as Microsoft Groups architecture and I really tried to explain that, what cost that they understand. They are not using only Teams because there is an exchange part which comes with it, and there's a big SharePoint part which comes with it. This is a challenge because people see only the product name and says, there's Teams and it does everything. It's much easier if they understand what's behind that and if SharePoint is used as a document repository only or supporting search, or if I have a calendar functionality, I need to understand that this is probably a hidden exchange mailbox because I haven't moved my mailboxes for whatever reason. This is really helpful for customers if you understand that, and if you look behind that, then it's much easier to build the governance because you see that the things are connected and not separated anymore. There was in the first two years after Team was released, there was an architectural diagram, very high level that showed that, that split the division between that, and where some of the compliance and other rules, engines kind of hit across both of those things. But I used to share that all the time, just because the top level to explain, up on top is the display portion of that, documents, SharePoint, meetings, chat, exchange through that. Your governance tools that you're using today and have been for years for SharePoint or for Exchange, still valid, still doing all that work behind it. Obviously, things are evolved and there's updates and there's new features and capabilities, but the core is all still the same, that architecture, that basic architecture is still the same. I think we need to dig that thing up again. But also, if you talk about previously, it was all around SharePoint governance, but if you talk about Microsoft Teams, you need to talk about Microsoft 365 governance, and look at the whole picture. Well, that always had gaps, stream, your video content. I mean, what was missing from all of those SharePoint governance discussions, were all of the instant messages, all the chats. I mean, with Skype. Next change. Right, next change, right. And the fact that they're in context are information assets that need to be protected, that need to be backed up and restoreable, that need to be auditable. I need to be able to go in and do an e-discovery and pull the conversation that we had in instant message, the chat, in relation to that document, which is being held. Yeah. Yeah. Little details. Little. Governance is a full-time job. I know. It is. All right, well, question five, with Yammer growth again on the rise, which business scenarios are driving this growth? So what I see a lot, so for every organization, Yammer brings a big social part into an organization, and this part is currently missing. So that people can just connect without the organizational and without their projects and the colleagues that work on a day-to-day basis that they can just reach out to other people in the organization or just talk about other things. So this is one of the use cases. I see a lot that people need the communication channel as well. And another use case, which was very popular last year, was a management came and said, I need to do an event where everyone in the organization can hear and listen to me. And this is done through a town hall event in Yammer, and this is also very popular, or I need to reach every person in the organization and I do not want to send an email to everyone. So these are the kinds of use cases which are really helpful with Yammer and they delivered very well here. Right. And the other one too is that, and I know that Microsoft with the Yammer acquisition years ago pulled back from the social tools within SharePoint itself, but sometimes teams, which is more project specific, and I know that there are all company teams. I don't want to get into that. I'm not a fan of all company teams. I usually mute them and stay away from them, but we're also my company. At point, we use Yammer and it works as designed as a place where you can go and ask broad questions and you don't know where the expertise where the input comes from. I would always use the example of, because this has happened to me so many times, but I would join a new company. I'd have a role, a focus of format that job and people were oblivious to what my prior history was. I remember, I've been told that different roles, like, well, that's not your job. I'm like, yeah, but I did that for five years in this other role with this other company. I have specific experience in that area. Why would you discount my voice? Because it doesn't fit my current job description. That makes no sense, but if you don't have the way to surface that kind of discussion and reach out to it. I mean, I go back to one of my favorite examples of Yammer, the power of Yammer, was back with the nationwide insurance example at the SharePoint conference years back. I think it was the one in Los Angeles in 2012. Is that right? Anyway, back there, eight, nine years ago, or whenever that was. And the example was used where someone who was a relatively new employee in support was found something that was trying to get feedback this is a recurring issue, whatever it was. This is a recurring issue. What's our best practice? What should we do in this scenario? And it says, I think this might be a path, no feedback. And then the CEO saw that message, responded to it, and then dozens of people that went in, commented, and started really expanding on the idea and ended up solving a big problem with support for customers. And this support person won an award because of raising this issue. But again, it speaks to the power of this broad, let the world see, in your organization, see and have access to this information and then share ideas. And you don't know where that good idea is gonna come from. Yeah, and also, Yammer is a great ideation tool. And also, Yammer doesn't know any hierarchies and no barriers. So, and it's not, if you can't speak up, if it's not fitting your current job role, there's probably, your experience is valuable to everyone. And if you have an idea to a specific topic, you should share it because it's knowledge you're sharing. And sharing knowledge is very important that people just have that knowledge and they can gain benefits from it. Well, the best ideas in the world are rarely that lone wolf has this great idea, execute on it, solves all these problems. The best ideas tend to be iterative, collaborative activities. I have like the root of an idea, you add on to it, we test something, we try it out, somebody else comes in and says, we tried that, this is where we failed, but here's another idea to take a different direction. And at the end of that, it's like the, did a MVP video last week and the example was used at the Beatles, played together for a decade before they were an overnight success. And on average, there's another quote, can't remember who made the quote that said like, every overnight success takes like 20 years to have that overnight success. But same with ideas. And right, it's capturing that, those information assets, pulling that knowledge out of people's brains and putting it out in a place where it could be consumed and action taken. And also in our organization, because we started with Yama before Teams was presented to us and we had a discussion about that. Now we have Teams, should we close down Yama, we won't use it, we're a small company and so on, but now both of them are used equally. So we have our Teams with Teamwork together and we have our Yama network where we are sharing ideas, knowledge, experiences, fun stuff, things like that. And it works pretty well. Well, so I have an observation, in my experience, I'm seeing that the more that we're seeing the integration, so the Yama, like I, so I have the Yama app in the left rail of Teams and I use that as a jump in there. But when you have, like I love that when I'm, I've started a discussion on Yama and it pushes it to outlook or I can share things in with Teams and move things between those. It makes me more aware, it makes it so that it's more shareable, the ideas and the content. So if an idea that's broad, that's shared in Yama, I can share it to a specific context of a project or an initiative that I'm working on over within Teams. I think that is helping drive, again, my personal experience, that's helping drive the Yama growth. A lot and people who rely on notifications, they really love that the Yama notifications show up in Teams as well because then they can simply switch and this also answers the which tool when. Use Teams, integrate Yama there and you're good to go. Right, agreed. It works really well. Question number six, in your opinion, what are the primary gaps in the Microsoft 365 offerings and how are customers filling this gap? And just to preface this by saying when I asked this question out during the tweet jam, it went very quiet for a couple of minutes. Like people were nervous to criticize in there. It's like, look, we all know that there are times where there are gaps. I think the first person to answer, don't remember who it was, but said governance remains a gap. It's still a very manual process. I don't know that I want Microsoft attempting to define and solve all governance problems for me, but that was the first response back. So any other obvious gaps that you're seeing? So what I see as a gap, and this is currently pretty true, is for me the management of different entry points. And I try to talk about that as nice as I can do, but if you're part of a lot of tenants and you are guests in a lot of environments, it's pretty hard to stay on track and also to communicate with people. I understand why this is the case, but I'm still hoping for a better solution. So let's say it that way. Well, I just, my feelings on this yesterday, we were just talking about this offline with a coworker about how they've resolved it for the mobile app, like I can, so same thing, I have, I don't know how many guest networks I'm a member of. In fact, I just saw somebody gave advice of on a monthly basis, removing yourself from unused guest tenants. And I'm overdue, and I've done that several times, that I'm no longer actively participating in. But even the ones that I'm actively in that are part of my job, dozens of these networks, but I also have three distinct logins, which I use one of them at least once or twice a week, the other two daily, and logging out, logging back in. Again, on the mobile device, I can have my three logins with all of the tenants, with all of the guest networks and easily move in between those, barring, putting an emulator on my desktop and running the mobile app. You can't do that in the desktop or the mobile versions. You have to then have multiple tabs open. Well, the problem is, as you know, like somebody shares a file, which one is that coming from? Did I save that on my company tenant and my community tenant and this other customer tenant? And which one am I logged into? And if you don't log out it, even if you're incognito within that, it gets confused by that. And so I'm finding that every day, constantly having to log out, log back in to make sure I'm on the right version of Word or PowerPoint or whatever I'm working on and saving to in OneDrive, they need to clean that up. The multi-tenant issue. Yeah, definitely. And on the other side, if you look at it from an opportunity perspective, so like it was for us. So we looked at Office 365 or Microsoft 365 and all the gaps are opportunities for partners to build solutions. So like this is why Delegate happened because we found a gap within the product and said, okay, there is no solution for that, but we can build one. And it's still a risk because you have a very strong competitor, which is Microsoft. Microsoft can build it by themselves and they can destroy your business model, voluntary or not voluntary. It just happens because customers expect Microsoft need to solve everything. And this is not the case. And I see the gaps scenario also as a great opportunity to bring new apps into the market and bring more value to customers. Agreed, that's the, and I like that the phrasing too of it's not a problem. It's not a gap. It's an opportunity. It is. But it is. Yeah, it is. And one of the first questions that was asked when Teams was launched as people saw the proliferation of Teams and had still the growth of the SharePoint sites underneath that with the existing SharePoint infrastructure and the confusion like, where do I go and which is the right one and how is it attached and all those things. And like AppPoint went and built the My Hub app, which is the number two most downloaded app in the Microsoft store, a free app that's out there, but solves that was the attempt to solve that. Where do I go? How do I navigate? If I'm part of dozens or some people claim hundreds, I know some people out there were quite a bit, but to organize all that, again, it was an opportunity and companies stepped up to resolve that. So there are definitely opportunities out there and being in the Microsoft ecosystem, you always have to be aware that Microsoft might say, hey, that's a fantastic idea and that solves the problem. And then they go build the functionality. Yeah, and also. It's a great example of that. Yeah, and also think about it, Microsoft 365, it's not a product and it's not a service anymore. It's a platform you can build on it. So, and this is the opportunity you have here. And I think also Teams apps will be huge in the future. Agreed, and I think Microsoft is investing a lot of effort, certainly in the channel around Teams as a platform and apps. So that's a major investment. We'll see with the next fiscal year where it fits with the KPIs that they drive on their sales but I have a good feeling that those will both be in play there again. And then for the question seven or final question here, what three things could Microsoft do to help answer outstanding questions about which tool and when? So I had an interesting conversation with a customer of mine who used to go to Microsoft Ignite and he said, I like the virtual Ignite a lot. It brings me information about new products, about new services and so on that they can follow up. But what I'm really missing is the practical experience. So I only see product managers presenting new features but I do not find any use case for me and my company. I need an interaction with other people and so on. So currently Microsoft is moving pretty fast and I see also that some people, they are not doing Microsoft 365 the whole day and it's hard for them to follow up with the speed. And I think Microsoft also give people a time to adopt the things, to think about that, to find solutions around that and to use it. Otherwise it's kind of a bumpy ride right now. That's been one of the most common questions is an MVP that people would ask me. Like how is you as an MVP in an RD? How do you keep up with so much going on? And the short answer is none of us do. Like we're relying on each other. There are certain sources that I go to and from all of that, I mean, we still things that slip through the gaps and I'll hear about something. When did that come out? It's like, well, that was like two months ago. Okay, I missed that. And there almost needs to be a cadence to the release. I know that it's, I realized that it's a SaaS offering. It's cloud offering. And so there are updates that are happening depending on the ring that you're on, but it's in real time. And so every week there are new things every single week without fail. But there almost needs to be kind of a cadence around that like a monthly cycle for that where they get added in or something. I don't know. I don't know the answer. I'm just talking out loud, but it's, because that's an issue. Yeah, and also currently I see a lot of organizations. I do a lot of business continuity services right now, bringing the latest and relevant news to organizations for their tenants because they said, I can't keep up, but bring me a summary and filled out everything which is not relevant for me and my organization because you know us. And this is also interesting. And the other part is Microsoft is going very fast and very slow because they're promising a lot sometimes and not delivering fast enough. So it's kind of a double-sided medal sometimes. And I think this is, I can handle that but it's still, when I get the questions, what is this happening, the never-ending answer soon? But I know. So the most used word is soon, so because we don't know. Well, it's, and I know that there have long been, I've provided, I've been very vocal in the community about upgrading the roadmap site. And the fact that Microsoft, I mean, we've complained about it for years and Microsoft went and built the roadmap site, fantastic. But then they would, you know, there was no history of, well, did that date just change? You almost had to take a screenshot and then hold Microsoft to it and be like, well, look, yeah, you were saying March 31st, now you're saying May 31st. Like, and then there's no data. Like, why did that slip? What's going on? You know, but there was no alert, the things that are out there. And also, and so they've gotten much better at that. It's not perfect, but then obviously things are dynamic. Things are changing daily. And Microsoft is looking at the data and to understand the timing of these things. And they also want it to work when they put it out there live. So generally if they find, run into issues or, you know, they're in their testing and their earliest rings internally where they're releasing these features, they're catching problems that they didn't foresee, you know, cross workload, clashes kind of things. But one of the things I've been saying for a long time, and I know that they're continuing to work on the roadmap side is, I would love it if it was a personalized roadmap view that would tell me what's on my tenant. So I'm not having to go in, because this was a question that came up in our office hours this week, which we do every Monday at 8 a.m. Pacific. But where somebody said, you know, hey, I understand that these, you know, the number of users in a live meeting are changing from 300 to 1,000. When do I know that the change has happened? And so like our direction was, well, you go and look at the documentation, the Microsoft side, they won't change the documentation until it's GA, once it's GA, it's out there. Or it'll say this is coming kind of thing. If it's just changed, it's there, it's updated. But it would be great if I could go in there and look at on a daily or weekly basis, the roadmap from my tenant's perspective to see what new features have now successfully added. Yeah, they can do that for selected services. So they're recognizing that, that they said, oh, we know you use that feature and you might be impacted, look at that. But they are not doing it for every feature. Yes, would be a great filter. It's a wish list. Yeah, yeah. It's a wish list, my tenant. Yeah, it'll remain on my wish list. It's been there for three years, so. Yeah. Well, Martina, I really appreciate your time. Thanks for participating, again, in the tweet jam. And they're always fun. I'm gonna go back, somebody else had commented. I'm gonna go back through the tie graph stats on the last tab. And if you go to link.tigraph.com slash collab talk, you can find that, the stats for past episodes as well. But on the last tab is all of the tweets that used the collab talk hashtag during that one hour session. So you can go back in order and filter through and find out with all those comments that you missed. I always mind that to find out what other ideas, crazy or practical ideas that are out there that our fellow MVPs and experts shared. It's always a wealth of information. Yeah, and I think it's useful just to think about some of the comments, why they are happening and what are the comments worth, yeah, definitely. Again, never discount when somebody provides that feedback, it's better to understand their perspective, why they're asking that. Why are they're saying that? Like we still don't know which tool to use when and get to the root of what that is. Is it an education issue? Is it that they're not, they're the right technology? Are they having other technical issues? Get to the root of that by understanding. Yeah, it's true. Well, thanks so much for your time and we'll talk to you soon. Yeah, and thanks for the opportunity. See you soon, hopefully in person. See you soon.