 International guests here and also because we are webcasts at live so we will hopefully have people also joining us from other places There so if you in the in the discussions and so on we need to use the microphone We have to remember that so you can also be heard. So welcome. My name is Johan Shilanshanna I'm the executive director of the Stockholm Environment Institute It's very nice to see quite a lot of new faces, quite a lot of young faces Being here today, which is great actually because today we are setting the agenda Which actually affects you much more than me to be honest If I managed to stay along I actually will retire at the same year as the SDGs should be fulfilled I'll be 65 then but for you. This is a startup And it's interesting even from a personal perspective because twice started my career That was basically when we had the real conference in 1992 So the sustainability agenda was high then as well And I was very excited by Rio agenda and agenda 21 and everything that was Linked to that and I hope that you will be equally excited what the world leaders in New York in their wisdom will decide Hopefully today about the new development agenda and finally again getting Environment and development issues back together in a comprehensive way So today we will have the agenda being agreed upon. Hopefully you have seen a lot being written about this Some are very much in favor of the SDGs organizations like ourselves. This is sort of the core of what we are doing some are Quite critical about the SDGs. They are saying they are too broad. They are too wide They don't really focus and so on And of course, it's gonna be interested to continue that discussion But from our perspective from a science perspective, this is exactly the case Sustainability is not a very simple straight way forward It is a complex world if we want to address poetry development climate natural resources Equity, this is a complex agenda. Everything is connected But nothing will really happen if we just Stay at that global level The world leaders have taken the first step Everybody knows that these Agendas these goals these targets have to really be brought down not just to the regional EU national level, but even to the local level that was the That was really the the strength of agenda 21 once that it was brought down to the local level and really engaged people The SDGs are still far up here So countries need to start working on this and this is what we are going to talk about today Which is actually great because Sweden cannot play a leading role in this clearly together with a number of other like-minded people or countries Every country has a responsibility. It doesn't mean that the goals or the responsibilities look the same for each country What we need to focus on what we should do and what we need to How we need to support other parts of the world if we all have our Priorities we all have our challenges, but the agenda is global Implementation becomes national and local and we have to interpret that Fortunately, I have 200 colleagues who are much more knowledgeable than I am about almost everything we do So I will hand over now. I will hand over to Nina writes I'm happy that you're here Nina because you have been common media star today already been in radio twice Because of the SDGs and this is actually quite good because I think the SDGs have been too Far off the agenda for too long a lot of folks on climate. It's great But now we need to get these broader agenda So Nina is great that you will take us through a little bit the report that we launched not so long ago About Sweden and and we will also then have inputs from our Man in this case in New York who is there right now? I'm on the needle stop and then later on we will also come back and have an open discussion We're not just you know Q&A you asking questions and we try to respond but also your perspectives I mean provide comments feel open to also You know state what you think is important as we move forward and then my colleagues will ask all Or answer all the tricky questions and I can take the same once but still Nina if you can join me up here And I will hand over the microphone to you Okay, I wanted to just first quickly introduce what what SCI has been doing in relation to the SDGs over the the past three years We've been involved in the development of the new global goals for sustainable development and that's What's previously been called a post point 15 agenda and the sustainable development goals? Since a few days back its agenda 2030 and the global goals for sustainable development So SCI has engaged as part of a group of other international research institutes and provided independent analytical support to Members of the open working group who was tasked to draft the goals And also we've been supporting individual member states We've also done research on certain aspects of the agenda particularly on integration and policy coherence And clearly clearly as you all mentioned most of SCI's research agenda sort of informs these goals in one way or the other The UN process then has Quite naturally focused on the primarily on the global level it's focused on setting the global goals and the global targets and On facilitating a dialogue on the means of implementation and then also on formulating an indicator Framework for global follow-up and review But guidance on how this global framework will be translated to the national level And how countries will act on it has been quite limited And an important principle then of the STG's or global goals as I should now sort of Re-learn to say again Instead of the STG's They apply to all countries. So it's not an Aid agenda in the same way as the Millennium Development Goals were They will also be implemented according to To national circumstances and the agenda States in fact That each government will set its own national targets guided by the global level of ambition But taken into account national circumstances and that each government will decide how the global targets should be incorporated in national planning processes policies and strategies So the question then is how countries can approach this task and if they have yet realized the scope of this exercise Yes, one month Okay, just for your plans we have yet I mean, yeah, and then you excellent. Yeah perfect So this is also then the focus of this report that we've launched Last week where we present an initial analysis of which goals are relevant for Sweden What these targets can mean in a Swedish context and discuss some key opportunities and challenges for target setting And implementation at the national level So we've put this forward as sort of an inspiration To government representatives and other stakeholders that are the ones who will in fact need to lead and take ownership of this Process of interpreting the global framework and set national targets And I will come back to later that technical assessment can only get us some distance in this task So I think we should leave Shift over to months Here he is Okay And months can you hear us he continues to continue, okay See if we get a chance to that would be like a live update from the actual summit where he is in New York So we'll see if he can come back with some some news for us So I'm more on the report then First of all, I'd like to mention that as kind of his face Implementation and considering what what actions it will take they will need to consider three different levels of implementation one is the mystic agenda Which are issues on the domestic policy agenda in Sweden for example Equality social inclusion education sustainable management marine environments to mention a few We'll also need to consider what Sweden can do within the scope of its development cooperation agenda This is likely to be more The target similar to those that were in the on the G's For example on sanitation on access to energy water and food Or reduced maternal mortality for example Within the international agenda And Sweden will need to consider its contribution and how it impacts on international sustainable development and global public goods and resources sustainability And our report here has focused on the domestic agenda as we saw I need to test the framework on on a high-income country and also in shifting the focus away from from just a Perception of the agenda is one for for the for development cooperation So as the first step of our analysis we reviewed which targets were relevant to Sweden's domestic agenda for this screening We excluded 52 targets that are on the means of implementation and They appear both under each goal and that's a separate goal in in goal 17 And we first looked for which of those remaining 117 and 107 sorry Targets that are applicable in Sweden so that is if if those targets actually address phenomena that can exist in Sweden and Our screening found that they are all applicable and this has been one of the UN's ambitions as well that the framework should be universally applicable Secondly, we'll look at which of them we could confidently say were achieved in Sweden and would probably remain so until 2030 and On this basis, we could exclude 26 targets primarily those MDG type of targets extreme poverty hunger access to drinking water energy and basic education for example So that means that 81 targets or 76% of those that we reviewed would require some action in Sweden So clearly the agenda 2030 that is now being agreed upon is not just an aid agenda, but very much relevant to Sweden Our screening also flagged up six goal areas as potentially more challenging than others for Sweden This included the goal on education on sustainable economic growth on reducing inequalities climate change Sustainable consumption and production and marine resources It is of course problematic to point out and prioritize certain Areas and targets as more important than others in particular as many of those targets interlink and they're also highly political so this should be taken with a Some more as flagging up goals that appeared in As a few examples from goals on economic inequality, gender equality and sustainable economic growth Target 10.1 is on reducing income inequality at the national level And speaking of relative poverty then this is one of the poverty targets that is Perhaps most relevant to high-income countries and for Sweden, which is one of the most equal countries And consequently close to achieving the target Income gaps are widening. So trends are looking negative and despite being close to achievement this merits attention by by the government in recent Suggestions more redistributive reforms have been proposed And are then specifically targeted to benefit those with the lowest income and to strengthen Income equality between men and women So this is an example of a target that was actually one of the most straightforward ones. It's quite clear But under the same goal We struggled with the target 10.2 for example Which states that by 2030 and power and promote the social economic and political inclusion of all Irrespective of age sex disability race ethnicity origin religion or economic or other status This is clearly very multi-dimensional and includes ambiguous wording and does not clearly express an end state of what is to be delivered Our second example here is target 5.2 which addresses violence against women and also includes trafficking This is an example of a target that in part addresses issues that cannot be handled only within the domestic agenda as a cross-border phenomena trafficking require international cooperation and Secondly, it's a target where data is difficult as violence against women is known to be heavily under reported Although this is improving in Sweden. It makes comparison over time very difficult But despite these challenges then the target brings up important issues for Sweden Statistics show that sexual violence against women and trafficking is increasing Although this can in part be explained then by by the improved reporting rather than an actual increase It's reported it's been reported more than 27,000 cases of assault in 2014 and almost 3,000 cases of rape in 2013 So eliminating gender-based violence is a priority of the Swedish government as part of its gender equality agenda And a new national strategy was presented in June this year My last example of the targets then is target 8.4 Which addresses resource efficiency in consumption and production and decoupling of economic growth from environmental degradation And this is a target that is tricky from a domestic perspective as it addresses global resource efficiency And the scale for decoupling is not clearly stated in the target Sweden has decoupled environmental degradation within Sweden from economic growth and emissions have decreased by 22% since 1990 But for more high-income countries the emissions from domestic consumption is more relevant Especially if we're talking about global resource efficiency And emissions from Swedish consumption have increased since the early 90s and an increasing proportion is taking place abroad So assessing this target is tricky, but it's clearly raising relevant issues Especially since there's been limited practical and policy efforts To date towards achieving Sweden's own national objectives of solving its own environmental problems without increasing pressures elsewhere So in addition to the scale issues of this target, which makes Expectation at the national level unclear. It also includes ambiguous wording such as promote Which gives no clear end state And also statistics that link Swedish consumption with impacts along supply chains Is lacking What then are the implications of this for Sweden in terms of setting up implementation of the SDGs? We found As I've stated that all the global goals that are being agreed upon this weekend Raise issues of relevance to Sweden and a majority of the targets Are not yet achieved Few of the targets, however, address completely new policy areas to Sweden and they therefore need to be integrated in existing politics and policy This is a great opportunity to integrate Sustainability in existing policy processes and politics align sector objectives and align domestic and foreign agendas But in order to know exactly what to integrate and what to act on there is need to explore in more depth What those globally proposed agenda will mean define what the Swedish priorities are and identify possible entry points for Implementation and this cannot be made by an independent research institute like SEI Although we would be very happy to support the work But technical assessment has shown very clearly that it only takes us half way The nature of the agenda is political and it requires both political decisions and priorities and Target setting and a meaningful national implementation plan requires Therefore a government led process for interpreting the agenda for the Swedish context This process is critical for capturing the opportunity to make the SDGs more than a reporting framework to the UN Making it one that actually drives relevant action in order to get the priorities right and Build ownership this process would also benefit from being inclusive including various ministries local government and agencies as well as civil society and business in terms of leadership then Parliament will have to play an important role to keeping the SDGs high on the agenda and Ensuring also ultimate accountability and the office of the Prime Minister Ministry of Finance and Ministry of Foreign Affairs Will have an important and coordinating role In this and we think that Sweden is well prepared having a minister for future and strategic development issues and also it's Secretariat within the Prime Minister's office the comprehensiveness of The agenda and the many interlinkages between targets does also put higher demand for integrated planning and action Across policy areas and this may require new or adapted organizational structures How responsibilities for the agenda is to be assigned is a very tricky question And is being worked on But it may not be to split up responsibility based on how the SDGs are organized at the global level but rather by identifying cross-cutting themes that contribute to those achievements and Identify how various ministries can work towards these within their current mandate In any case coordination knowledge sharing and learning between ministries will be important for successful implementation So in approaching this task governments can be supported by analytical frameworks That ensure proper review of coherence and cooperation between different policy areas and also between national bilateral and international policy levels And the Swedish government has begun to explore its policy for global development as one entry point and policy coherence for sustainable development as a supporting framework And we think that continuing this work with will be very useful in moving forward Finally accountability will be key to progress And our analysis has questioned how effective the global indicators are as drivers of change Successful implementation will depend on getting the actions right and there is risk that global indicators Divert attention to other for Sweden less relevant areas So instead our findings suggest that greater emphasis should be put on national indicators And monitoring frameworks which can ensure accountability towards citizens on those relevant actions and Such indicators will need to be developed in conjunction with the national target setting and can be complementary To the framework that the UN is now establishing for tracking the global progress I'll stop there. I don't know if we have months What's up, maybe it can you join us as well because I think the Q&A you'd be part of this So maybe you can also use the cell and use this mic We'll share it. Hello, everyone. I'm also passion. I'm a researcher here at the AI who I had a privilege to work with Nina on this report. It was very interesting but also very Demanding in terms of effort so Nina did all the hard work screening all these targets, but It was very informative actually to read through them all of them. It's a very comprehensive and sort of super inclusive framework Yeah, great. So join us here and Just the only thing I would like to say is that while the report you have available Yeah, you can have additional copies if you want to bring back to other colleagues We have also put in the back there a lot of other material which is linked to for instance this what Nina mentioned independent research forum Which has been an international collaborative Network of organizations supporting countries in the process leading up to New York now And also some other things that we've been writing blogs and so on and one of the few times I've also been involved is actually trying to convince a couple of people who are critical towards the whole SDG That I thought they were wrong, but I realized very quickly that that was a hopeless battle Longboury was one of them by the way. I don't know if you saw his Article in the insurgenble art a few days ago But read that one otherwise. I think it's an interesting way of how people really still Misunderstand what the SDGs are all about. So we have a huge task really to explain What they actually mean and what they are for because I think people have misunderstood that anyway Let's have comments and questions and the discussions or debate or critical points or whatever you want This is an open agenda here now. So Anyone come on. You are the next generation. So I'm expecting you to Really have some yes good It doesn't work like this, but it's for the web I was thinking it was really interesting to hear about the sustainable development goes from a Swedish context And I was thinking about the millennium development goals that has a just focusing on the developing countries and When this sustainable development goals had this massive Participatory process consulting a lot of actors and I was thinking how did it take into account? If you know anything about how they took into account the Swedish actors in other words How is the sustainable development goes tailored for a Swedish context? Okay, can you we take a few comments and maybe then we can come back to some Responses from your side anyone else who likes to comment. Yes, maybe say who you are also should have I'm Rick at stay and very Richard stone from Stockman University and I'm studying the effects of agriculture on the Swedish environmental goals right now And also I wonder how do these goals correlate with With the switch and my mental goals Anyone else who wants to add something now or we can take up more later So so I mean the first question is interesting about the involvement the UN is Clearly stating that you know millions of people have been involved all over the world We have been working a lot with this mainly on the international arena. So what about the national level? But what about Sweden? my perspective perception is that it had been quite Limited the discussion in in in Sweden, but the Swedish delegation was one of Fewer that actually included civil society organizations As part of their delegation and there's been continuous consultations as well Throughout the process of setting the global goals Where the foreign ministry for example has been leading the the negotiations from Sweden has involved? Consultations with those organizations as well Yeah, just add a brief comment on that I agree with you Nina that's there has been consultation But I would say me reflecting back on what you said you and that it's been To some extent perceived as this developments Assistant agenda, so the ministry for foreign affairs have been Consulting with stakeholders, but there hasn't really been that sort of Systematic consultation on the domestic agenda sort of For example, how do they match with the environmental quality objectives? And I think this is not absolutely not unique to Sweden I went to one of these meetings in New York with the negotiators and from one other European high-income country when they said what they were sort of doing on this it was completely sort of within the development assistance Sector, so I think and we had a report actually from Mars this morning He'd seen some new material that it is very much the frame of the Developing country agenda, so yeah, that's what we're trying to sort of question and start a broader discussion about I think I mean this what is important in this point is also what will actually happen in terms of where the Responsibility of the implementation in Sweden will land It's a bit of a discussion within the government right now that some of us are well aware of and We should hope that it doesn't land on Actually the ministry for environment I would say because then it becomes like agenda 21 an environment issue or at the ministry for at least Not that part of the minister for foreign affairs dealing with ODA I mean it's more interesting if it ends ends up in the ministry for finance or or something I mean somewhere else where you have a more overarching responsibility for me. Yeah So but I still want to the ministry for environment to be involved, so Absolutely, but I can say I was talking about you know also your question Has this been a negotiation or discussion in Sweden I think in general not just have we not been so much involved even though you have a good example where this has worked in part of the formal involvement through civil society, but I I Was speaking in in sort of tell you municipality some weeks ago for instance and I asked them I mean these four were people really working on environmental issue primarily and ask them So what do you know about the STG's how many know any of the STG's in here one two people out of 40 And that's still you know, so we have some uphill I think to work and and okay, they haven't been involved in the development now the implementation is another thing So any other comments or questions? Come on, come on, come on Okay, good If no one's got a question anything I would like to question The goal number eight from from a from a you know growth slash development standpoint because it's Studying studying economy ecological economics and others. Do we really need? Economic growth Or do we need economic development? It's a question of quantity versus quality. I guess So sorry from from both actually but first of all since it was a critical Critical goal as as that's a critical goal. It's primarily Swedish context Okay, any other who wants to add in on this Hopefully quiet Okay, so how did you approach this? I mean did this become a discussion when you were trying to assess it has it been a discussion also at the global level When you've been to your retreats, this is a very sensitive issue about growth development whatever it means Yes, I Think first of all we've focused more on the sort of second half of this Target and they show up decoupling Oh, sorry, I heard just yesterday one of the priorities In general for the agenda from a Swedish perspective will be on decent jobs. So that's also in there This is not one of the targets that I have focused more on I don't know do you have No, but I Mean growth I think opportunities to grow has been a clearly very important issue for developing countries in this whole process and some Wordings have been taken out like any things sort of implying limits to growth. It's very sensitive But then on I mean, I think your question in a way Raises a bigger question and that is the extent to which these goals or targets angles are kind of Ideological or if they are kind of more what we call policy Targets, you know, it's yes. There is consensus. We want to have good education opportunities for Children, it's not a you know critical issue, but this sort of how should Societies grow is more critical and what we tried a thing to say in this Report is that we think maybe domestic policymakers when they sort of get the the minutes from New York on Monday next week and start looking closely at the targets they might React that these are quite political targets. They are not sort of just Nice kind of Uncontroversial targets, but they do raise questions and that's why also we feel that they need to be a subject to proper political debate at the national level and not just Not not just within government, but really they should be debated in Parliament If I can add also compared to Agenda 21, which I think was an extraordinary document in itself And the Rio principles which we have tended to forget about Unfortunately, because they are also quite excellent and many of the Rio principles have actually been integrated into global policy in terms of for instance, blue-tri-pace principle or Common but the differentiation responsibilities or even in the Rio principles. We had the whole responsibility about we are Not supposed to cause harm in other parts of the world from our consumption. They were all there These I mean these targets are quite specific still as you say also. I think that when Governments beyond those that have been really involved in the STG setting and they start to realize what we have signed on to This can actually create a lot of interesting discussions. I mean some of the targets that you mentioned here also Nina regarding equality regarding harassment regarding, you know Even workplace decent jobs and all that That will become interesting even in a country like Sweden, I think please Yes, just small come yes, my name is Susanna Lucas. I'm an internet sida. I You're a latin division and just a comment on your comment that as I see it that you cannot I Mean in this economic system you cannot This is the English you cannot Yeah, this account the importance of growth. That's I mean that's kind of the base of the economic system Then you can discuss how the economic system should perhaps be changed. Yes But and I have a question for you regarding Let's see where it is. It's Yeah, this eliminate all forms of violence five point two in the gender quality goal What kind of policies did you because you had you saw that the policies were? Yeah Positive in the positive direction When yeah, and I wonder what kind of policies did you look at? Yeah to include in that research For the policy screening all of this is sort of a a quick screening overview of existing policy efforts interventions And I think for this particular Target seeing that it's a positive trend that there is a actually a new Strategy put forward That the where there has also been like a critical review of the interventions that have been done to date And it's quite critical to to the the interventions that have been made and and also clear suggestions of how to how to revise and how to how to shift it Yeah It's the over yeah Absolutely, we haven't gone into like specific policy mechanisms for example, so it's an overview But it's a really interesting point because that's the risk sometimes with these that we stuck get stuck with Do we have the policies? Do we have the legal framework? So oh, yeah, we do so that's fine So, you know, we are really in the right direction and I mean if you look at most countries that are violating human rights or Most countries that have huge problems with environmental issues. Most of them actually have Most of them good policies or you know good legal frameworks. It's just that they are not implemented So it's an interesting point in general and I think even from a Swedish perspective it might be Interesting to later on dig deeper into some of these areas and see how policies are or not translated into real changes Yeah, just to reiterate one of the big points We're also trying to make in the report is that this shouldn't we would like to see in the reporting on this agenda both to national At the national level but also when Sweden reports to the UN we would I think like to see a lot of reporting on actions taken not just these 100 or 300 whatever indicators that are now being Discussed so it's just one big measurement exercise and you don't have a clue if the sort of performance on that indicator was caused by actual Taking action or other circumstances like general economic growth or whatever so we would like to see not just this obsession with numbers and indicators but actual sort of review of Policy taken and for example the OSTD perform environmental performance reviews on the environmental sort of domain of sustainable development Which could be a model so that's I mean this type of reporting is done Which actually it says more we think about the bigger picture Yes, Rob This is our communication director director robots so because he will forget to introduce himself Yes, hi, I'm Rob everybody I have a question at which is are there any insights from this recent report? Or from other research that you've done that might be applied to What we might call a developing country or in a developing country context You want to add a while you think there is not one My name is Ida Ragnarsson and I work at LSU the National Council for Swedish youth Organizations and I have I think my question links into your question in that it would be interesting to see you mentioned that there were three Sort of policy or agenda levels and it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on If there are any linkages between those three levels that would be interesting to develop as well I mean if we if we in Sweden and are focusing on on one thing there could be or should be Interesting connections into how that relates to our international cooperation or a development cooperation agenda as well Or if that's going to be completely different, but maybe we can also learn from Someone else in our own agenda if we focus on the same things Of the easiest question Who wants to Okay, I'm very tempted to hand over to Nina The very good questions both Rob's and yours And it's quite difficult to keep all these to one hundred and six nine targets sort of at the top of mind but Let me say I can't sort of Think of targets immediately that sort of would be you know, where Swedish performance is sort of informative to developing countries challenges But I mean the whole sort of lecture I think our lesson we drew was that I mean Yeah, 81 targets are still need to be dealt with so it's not sort of There's still a lot to do and some of these will be Sort of in common with developing countries and I believe for example also something like De-coupling and consumption based emissions. That's also growing problems in places like China. So this is that's another sort of World view that we think and not just we many think we need to keep in mind is sort of more New bands world we have lots of emerging economies as well. And it's not just the north and south As in sub-Saharan Africa. So Sorry, I can't give a more precise answer than that But maybe you can know But more like an overarching one is the I guess that The challenge and like the time that needs to be invested in actually doing this interpretation That it really isn't just applying this framework that we're now looking at it And like I said like from a quick look they look quite specific and it's just like okay now We know what to do But they need to they it gets very political and and tricky when applying it to a specific context and especially in develop many developing countries where data is much more scarce than I Mean we were able to do like a quick review quite easily Excessing data So that will be a challenge and then I guess on some issues where Sweden Can sort of set an example for example on gender equality for example there. I'm sure lessons to learn I mean, I think the I mean these questions are really interesting and I mean If I understood you correctly in your question one one aspect that for instance is included in these in this gold framework Which I think is quite fascinating is trade all together because trade for instance has always been very sensitive to talk about Outside of WTO or whatever, you know, you you try to exclude it from these kind of discussions, but it's there So no you can't you can't exclude it and actually that I think is is fascinating because we we have managed finally to get a Goals framework that doesn't shy away from those issues that are highly Political contentious, which we've done in the past Which may then the goals irrelevant in a way So whatever decisions we make there are really critical in terms of you know Linkages to other countries and in particular emerging economies foreign direct investments You know connecting up to the private sector Global investments and so on so as you are saying, you know, it's really when we start to analyze what these mean in practice I think that's when we're going to see, you know What we are saying we are connected and whatever we do however we we act on a national level We'll also have implications outside of the country. So it's not just about demonstrating examples. It's also about Making it more explicit that you know, we are part of a global community And we're affecting a global community much more than just through ODA and so on which has been the classical thing in in Development discussions previously, which is just this much of the total So any yes in the back and then here so we take two more. My name is Anders Eslín I work as a consultant and I work a lot with landscape projects like biosphere reserves and model forests and things like that and Working with those Projects or initiatives. I find that that a lot of people do have problems Interpretating what sustainable development is to start with and that's kind of the main question What is sustainable development for us? Do you think that those goals could help them guide them in their discussions and The other way around do you think those kind of landscape laboratories can add value to the public debate or or the development of the concept Innisfedish concept and and further out in international concept. Thank you. It's a small question that one Hi, I'm Claudia Strambeau from here from Stockholm environment institutes So I'm just picking up on the the comment on trade and the fact that it's quite interesting to see such Critical and difficult issue coming up in a new policy sphere, but at the same time, maybe it's because we're stuck in the normal The the normal policies where that we start talking about it in another sphere So I was wondering since you've been a bit Involved also in the discussions and with negotiators to what extent issues like trade or environment that have quite specific institutional institutions and regimes where they're discussed and negotiated on a continuous basis And to what extent like there is this feeling that I will can't deal with it anymore. So let's try in another way So I have a sometimes to leave this microphone away Thanks, so first a question on biospheres and landscape laboratories and and you said it's like how to interpret sustainability. What does it mean? And I think when I Started following this process, which was a bit later than Nina. I Also sort of was looking as a Scientist, okay, what's their definition of sustainability? What kind of principles or theories or frameworks are they gonna apply and this surely must build on some kind of clear definition, but I Couldn't really see that there was that so in a way I think if you want to be very sort of strict to me sustainable development in this UN context and the global goals it Relates more to the fact that we need to integrate environmental economic and social dimensions is not so much about what's the Sustainable level of resource use for example a kind of maximum sustainable yield Regarding fishery that sort of sense of sustainability or natural capital And I think you just yeah need to accept that's the case. So you will find lots of I mean the word sustain ability is present in a lot of the targets But it's very open to interpretation But I think Yeah, I mean it would be really interesting to hear what it like if you take this framework to the People you work with like what they would you know if it would help them or sort of stimulate discussion And I think now is the time I mean if these laboratories which sound interesting, but if they could Have a sort of you know, you could do sort of an exercise discussing what do these goals mean in our context I would be really interesting to show as a kind of early Start with this agenda and provide an example how it could be worked with but yeah, I'm can't give any more concrete Suggestions I'm afraid now, but you know have a have an experiment I would say I don't think I have much to add I agree with what you said and also on your Question cloud yet to it hasn't been of any of the the limited To the limited extent that we've been involved in negotiations And we haven't been in in the formal negotiations But just in the preparatory work of the open working group and also in in that setting sort of outside of New York and outside of their Political context some more in like in it was more about making sense of like guiding principles For example of the framework. What does universality mean? What does integration mean and so on? So I I don't have any insights actually on the negotiations in terms of the trade issues Thank you, but it's interesting Claudia to come back to your question on trade again If you read the article, I shouldn't advertise it too much But still I mean it's interesting if you read the article by Lomborg Then a few days ago critical again to the STG's and he for instance says that well, you know 169 goals, but if you really look at it It's only about three or four that would solve everything one is free trade So and then you start to think well, you know, but for free does free trade work if you have failing states and you know So again, it's you know just taking an economy very strict economic view making an analysis invest in this You get $30 back, but you don't look at all the externalities for instance So it's yeah, this is a Danish Lomborg who is so who is writing in Svenska dobbler that on a regular basis as a guest Edit yeah leader writer comment. So so you know, I think we have a lot to do in terms of Explaining that many of the sort of simple solutions that that seems to come back in terms of how to Save the world or develop countries With for instance trade that they actually do require quite a lot of other things to function and to also be sustainable on the long run But I don't think it's hopeless and I think this framework helps us to set that That's why it's so important that trade for instance is included in the framework and is seen as a critical factor That economic growth is part of the framework so it can be discussed within this context Etc. Etc. Etc. So I mean let's this is starting point. It's no question about it I think and what I really I mean your question about or your your your comments and questions I think just like you're saying We are just starting I mean what what needs exactly what happened with agenda 21. There is no clear political process Okay, say thank you. Okay. Now. It's gonna do this We need you know hundreds and thousands of different initiatives and ideas and tests and you know How do we really translate this into action? So I urge in particular all we had a lot of interns here today from the ministries you should take this forward I mean you are those below 30 now. I mean you you should drive this agenda. You should push You should take initiatives across Your the ministries and say that okay, this is going to be our agenda. Let's take the leading Role here now to push this this agenda. It's not just for you know the old guard up there It's actually our agenda. So, you know, it's about being innovative and really dare to take this forward that I think is key here So any final words from my colleagues about this? Do you think SGS will check or the agenda 2030 agenda will change the world? Depending on what the countries do with it scientists Yes, or no What do you think also I'm not convinced they will all be achieved by 2030, but I do think they will hopefully I hope they will function as this sort of glue in International society. So when there is like division in other arenas climate negotiations or trade negotiations countries or civil society can sort of You know bring the SDG reports and sort of remind people that's actually there you have committed to this as well It's voluntary, but still there is a sort of reference point so That's my hope Do we want to I mean say anything about the future work on SDGs and sort of also that we Yeah, I think No, I just want to make the point that this was intended this report as a sort of stimulating discussion So if you and your various institutions have you know Views and ideas. We're very interested in engaging In dialogue with you. So we didn't have time this time to do this super comprehensive rigorous statistical analysis But we still think this is they can provide this Basis for discussion. So we invite you, but maybe you want to I can just comment that we will hopefully in the coming Years, I guess Both be working with Still through the independent research forum. So we were sort of which allows us to make good comparison between countries and It's research Institute based in in very different countries Allowing us for drawing lessons in implementation across those And we're hoping to be involved in the continuous implementation in Sweden as well. So we're just setting up a Project around that So thanks lot. Did you have a final comment or was it no you just wave in happiness? That's okay That's fine. So anyway, so I we hope that you actually feel not leaving this You know that when you're leaving now that you don't feel depressed and everything going the wrong way or whatever quite the contrary today It's actually a happy day. We hope they haven't passed. They haven't Yet I think so let's be a lit, you know optimistic with care with with some care still But otherwise, you know, see these as a really positive and interesting agenda to move forward and something that actually will Keep us really engaged over the next 10 15 years. So you have a fantastic Work life ahead of you in implementing the SDGs. So thank you very much Also, and Nina a warm applause to you for this one and thank you for coming and joining us here today Don't forget to take stuff in the back there if you're