 and welcome. It's another episode of The Nonprofit Show. So glad to have Jennifer Palin with us joining today from Bloomerang. And Jennifer's here to talk about major gift asks and how you can set up for success. We have five, or I should say she has five tips that she's gonna share with us. And so glad to have you back here, Jennifer. Julie and I really enjoy our conversations with you. For those of you watching and listening, Julia Patrick is here. She serves as the CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. And I'm Jarrett Ransom, her nonprofit nerd, but yours too, CEO of the Raven Group and honored to serve alongside and to be of service in these conversations. Thank you to our sponsors that allow these conversations and this opportunity for us to serve in this way. So again, huge shout out of gratitude goes to our friends over at Bloomerang where Jennifer joins us from. American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, non-profit thought leader, fundraising academy at National University, staffing boutique, and as well, the non-profit nerd. So so glad to have their support. They've allowed us to produce over 700, I should say in 50 plus episodes. They're all on Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Vimeo, YouTube as well as podcast form. So queue us up wherever you like to consume your entertainment. You can find us in many of these platforms and in fact, just a few hours after today's live conversation that we're having, this episode with Jennifer Palin will be up and live on these streaming platforms. So Jennifer, so glad to have you back for again, for those of you that Jennifer might be new to use, she is the senior director in channel management at Bloomerang and not a new face to us again, back by popular demand and so glad to have you back with us. So officially welcome. Thank you, it's such a pleasure to be here. Now you're gonna be talking to us about major gifts and so there's so many voices at Bloomerang, so many people that have amazing talents that have joined the organization. Talk to us about your understanding and your work in major gifts. Absolutely, thank you. Yes, so I've done major gift work as a major gift officer, a director of major gifts, probably for the better part of at least the last dozen years and I've had the privilege of mostly doing it in academia at institutions around the Boston area and I also worked for a healthcare nonprofit focused on the elderly where I was the director of development for research on the elderly but really partnering with major gift officers on major gift asks. So this is an area of passion for me. I've done gifts of every size, also having an annual fund hat on and leadership gifts the mid-range level but I think because it's so relationship driven this is part of the area of development that I've really found most valuable and most meaningful to me. Right. Oh well, it's so important. I was just having a conversation yesterday with a client asking about the diversification of their revenue, what it should be, how much should come from individuals, how much from other sources. So we're gonna dive right in and we have a lot to cover in this amount of time and for those of you again watching and listening, we are merely scratching the surface. As we said earlier, each of these five strategies literally could have an episode in and of themselves but we're gonna start off asking you Jennifer to talk about the determination of the target ask amount as your major gift success strategy number one. What do you share for this? Sure. So obviously this is a very key component and I would say that if you're doing your job well, since we're already at the making the ask stage, you visited with this, the prospect before and you've done your homework, right? You've used the cultivation tools at your disposal which include, you know, well-screening background background research on, you know, two key components which are what is the prospects capacity and what is the prospects inclination? You know, at Bloomerang and our database we have that by generosity score and in engagement meter but those are two key things but likely the most important thing is the conversations that you've had with the prospect leading up to this point. Key questions that I like to ask to help determine this is what are your, you know, what are other causes you care about? What are your philanthropic priorities? You know, they've selected to meet with you so obviously likely you've made the list and if you haven't made the list you're probably not gonna get to the making the ask conversation. And then I like to ask where does, you know where does XYZ or whatever nonprofit is where do we fall on your list of philanthropic priorities because it's so easy to fall into a trap just because someone made a million dollar gift to the organization down the road doesn't mean that, you know you're qualified to make a million dollar ask for your organization, you know are they the engagement meter? You know, you really have to think how engaged and then on the flip side maybe even though that person either may not have made a major gift before or only given say $500 or $1,000 for a few years if they say you're the number one priority and you've gotten other indications that doesn't mean you can't ask them for you know, so that's why I think it's so much of an art you know, in combination and then I also like to get numbers on the table in previous and prior meetings you know, even once you find out what they care about you know, you can talk about a range some people invest X or Y and you can see people's reaction or a lack of reaction as an indicator you know, if you mention a number that you think is lower than you were gonna ask in their eyes you know, usually they'll tell you they'll tell you in verbal and nonverbal ways right? Oh, I could never do that and then sometimes you mention a big number and there's no reaction which I always think is a great side okay, you know so I think you know, that all those those are some of the key things in determining ask amount because if you're doing your job by the time you're at that solicitation visit you've determined who, what's the program who is the right person or people and what's the right amount so and then I always there might not be just one amount I always have like a back pocket option you know, if, oh I really wanna support this but I can't do X, have another option but I am a fan especially when it comes to major gift asks having a specific amount in mind. You know, the next strategy, number two I'm fascinated with because just last week I was at going to lunch with somebody walked past a booth, looked over was a very good friend of mine who's a CEO of a major organization and I could tell she was asking a major gift for a major gift and I was really like in my personality was like, hey sister, you know like what are you doing here kind of thing, right? And it was super uncomfortable and then I felt just terrible because I knew that I had interrupted something but these people were at a restaurant and so preparing the visit environment talked to us about that because it seems like a lot of this does go down in a social environment. That is a key point, it does and I'm actually not always against a social environment either because, you know, people give to people and once you're at a major gift ask chances are you've interacted with this person in other ways, so you know to inform all those pieces that we talked about. So, you know, if it's up to me you know, if I sometimes you have control of the environment like selecting the location or the venue, sometimes you don't but if I have control I often say, you know, I'm happy to come to your home we can meet over coffee sometimes I'll say I can bring lunch or we meet at a restaurant and what I like about doing it in a, you know at a restaurant or someone's home is it provides an opportunity for more social interaction you know, people give to people so it gives you a chance to talk not just about the business at hand but other things, you know even other things about the organization. So, you know, the more and it helps solidify and build that relationship especially if you're at someone's home you know, you learn so much about a person from you know, what's in their home their artwork, you know the hardest for me is and is when you meet someone at their office and you're in a conference room that's totally bare that's not informed in any way and that happens a decent amount especially prior to COVID when you would never have these conversations over Zoom even if you're having the major gift ask over Zoom which I have been you usually know if you've met with them before that background environment but a couple of key points about you know, sometimes you're familiar with the place sometimes you're not I always say go there early I know it's master of the obvious but you wanna make sure you get a good seat you wanna make sure in a position where you're sitting across from them that you can make eye contact I'm not a big fan of coffee shops which is hard because for these because it's loud grinding coffee and it's crowded and those times I'll get there especially early if it's a real fake ask and I haven't been to a place before but it's not far from me I'll go there in advance and find out the situation or sometimes you know since I've worked in a university or at a facility and if I don't know it's a facility I'm representing but if I've never been to that floor that department or that building I go there in advance so I know the route I know what the room looks like and the layout and if you're involving another person and a lot of major gift asks you might be bringing the CEO or the program director you wanna make sure that you sit on the same side of the table opposite them because you don't wanna force the person that you're making the ask to look two different ways when you're making that ask so I always and in a planning meeting I will talk about that with the person joining me and I always a lot of times I'll offer to sit first or I'll direct them why don't you sit here we're gonna sit here but you predetermined those things and so you control what you can control but I think obviously a lot of planning a little planning goes a long way and it's helped set you up for success it's one less worry to you should be focused on the conversation as much as possible and less on the environment I love these tips Jennifer and I also wanna say like the noise that's something to highly consider sunlight if you're gonna be sitting and the sun's shining straight in or the temperature is it too cold, too warm just all of that Julia I think we've all been there in that social environment where you're looking and you're like oh, I think this might be happening right now Yeah, it's weird and it's also I think too it's not very private and I think that's always one of my concerns is if you're talking about legacy and finances and multi-generational wealth it can be a little dicey because it's more public and so I think Jennifer some of your things have been really, really interesting to consider let's move on to number three solicitation process radio silence Okay, Jared and I are dying to know what this means I know I'm gonna be quiet Yes, so well I'll start at the beginning and then we'll get to the to my radio silence You know, usually when you're at the solicitation you know, you've I'm a huge believer in writing out a script whether that's just talking points bullet points, the whole meeting whatever works for you sometimes I like to type it out and then I drill it down and rehearsing, you know you can't rehearse, rehearse, rehearse if you have another person involved especially if it's like somebody you know, part of the more executive leadership meet with that person in advance make sure they understand what their role is what your role who's the driver one person I feel like always needs to be the driver in the conversation you know, who's asking who's sitting back I think all those things in advance really set you you know, really helped set you up for success and manage your adrenaline right, it is nerve-wracking right, it can be nerve-wracking and so to keep like the way sometimes I'll structure a conversation and there's a few different ways to do this but I'll do like I'll summarize the experiences to date kind of a retrospective of how we got to this meeting in doing so you know, talk about the case for support less about the details of it because that's already been discussed you know, I know this is you know, you want to show where their passion meets your alignment of priorities you want to maybe rephrase what they've shared with you before like I know you're so passionate about scholarships because and say, you know as we've talked before and I you know, through these conversations I'm asking and this is you know, three words would you consider you know, a gift of X or a gift of X which would fully endow the scholarship and then radio silence radio silence okay pause it could be awkward it could be uncomfortable manage your adrenaline because you know, you really want you know, and if if they're silent that that's a really good sign right, like if they say yes to you quickly I feel like oh, I asked for I didn't ask enough not the right ask amount if they say no too quickly that's informative as well and the more you rehearse because you can psych yourself out I'm recalling a specific experience when you know, earlier on when in my first major gift role you know, where I get to the location early it was someone's office pretty private office so I couldn't walk in advance I'm practicing in the car and I thought who would like to be walking in asking this couple for a quarter million dollars you know, like who do I think I am and I remember breaking out in the high I was getting really nervous and having to calm myself down and say, wait a minute they've selected to meet with me this is our third meeting or we've had these conversations they have indicated their support in every other what you know, all these different ways you know, I've earned this right and I'm giving them an opportunity you're giving them an opportunity to invest and especially when it is maybe people who haven't been philanthropic or don't have a huge history you know, one of the things I've loved about working in philanthropy the most is you're empowering people to see themselves as philanthropists which can be really powerful yeah, it's wonderful it's really exciting and I love that you keep inserting manager adrenaline because you're so right you know, and really really getting to this radio silence is so important you know, I'm recalling an opportunity honestly, it's just human behavior you know, knowing people and how they respond I talk often about my son but he's a processor and so if he's silent it's not that he's offended he's thinking you know, and seeing this behavior in people whether they talk as they process or they become silent even if they're silent doesn't necessarily mean that they're objecting to you know, to this request so I love that you're bringing up these tips and techniques and again, for those of you that have joined us we're so glad you're here each of these strategies literally can have its own 30 minute or more segment so don't don't get discouraged if if you're like, I want I want more so let's do move into this thank you, Julia for the handling objections because this is your strategy number four, Jennifer for that major gift success is how do you recommend we handle objections? Yes, so first of all I say, don't be scared of objections they be positive think positively about objections objections show interest you know, I am far more fearful of indifference and an indecision than I am about objections and then I think this is when active listening really comes into play you know, you know there's often only a handful of reasons why people will have objections they'll be, you know or say no, you know it's the wrong wrong nonprofit organization in which case you're likely not at this point the wrong program the wrong person as I've mentioned or the wrong timing so ask them, you know ask open-ended questions understand and identify what their objections are and listen with empathy and understanding and acknowledge them you don't want to go tearing into your answer right away and negating it you really want to make sure you're understanding it and if you've developed that relationship and done your homework you're coming in prepared to anticipate them as part of my script and briefing I have a what to do if they say no what to do if they say yes a few objections it doesn't necessarily mean they're going to bring up an objection that you may not have anticipated but you know a lot of times nine times out of ten you know you you can have a playbook for that like sometimes I'll say I really understand that you feel this way in fact I've talked to donors who have felt the same way until they found out you know and then and then try to identify the sole objection you don't have to negate the you know three or four objections try to classify and clarify it and get down to the sole one you know and try to address that one you know you know very very gently and you know there's so many different kinds there's misunderstandings you know my gift is just a drop in the bucket compared to what you can give you know I understand that you feel that way but honestly there's so few donors or people in our network that can have this kind of impact and you're one of a select few you know or sometimes there's the emotional objections they just can't get past an experience that they had and no amount of facts is going are going to disprove that or maybe it's an experience that a friend or a relative had you know having worked in academia I you know raised money for a lot of scholarship support and someone said you know I don't you know I just it's so hard to get past when I was you know a student I didn't get the scholarship money that I needed and you know and I said you know I'm so you know you're sorry that they had that experience but then I've used it to turn it around too I said that's why this is so important for us now that we build the resources to be able to do this for other people yeah and I love for me what really hits home is to listen with empathy you know and to say you know genuinely some of these responses that you've so eloquently said during this episode Jennifer you know is really like this is why we need this impact and yeah that that empathy piece I think goes a long way in these major gift solicitations and also the citations yeah really and and again I'm a I'm a big fan of plan B too you know if they say I really want to do this but that's too much you know oh well there's other meaningful ways that donors have really valued you know this is another alternative so yeah I love it well you know this time is racing by and as Jared mentioned you know these strategies that we're talking about each one of these could be a show plus but we wanted to kind of pull this all together in this with this umbrella of major gifts and the last thing that we're going to talk today is strategy number five post meeting follow up what does that look like to you so actually and then one thing and part of it is adding on to what I just said you know is even if whether they say no or whether they say yes even especially they know the conversation continues right to get to the end and one of the important you know closing areas of the conversation is agreeing to next steps right whether it's I'll think about it it's a yes you know it's a maybe you know you don't want to leave it without a plan you know and then there's you know there's a difference between the no and the not now so there's you know there's so many different pathways but all of them involve you know coming to a sense of agreement about the next steps making sure that you've given them an opportunity to ask questions you've offered suggested things that would be helpful to get for them you know and you kind of rephrase it and go over it and then within 24 hours send a thank you send a thank you email even if you were and you know when you're setting you know what you're going to follow up on be be be candid about the timeline you know I'm going to get you answers to these questions but it's going to take me a few days or I can get that for you you know tomorrow or next week whatever that timeline is though you contact them right away and say thank you and you know even even if maybe they're generate you know a millennial and they don't really do regular mail you know I'll send them an email or a text but I'll also mail something if it's a significant gift to kind of stand out and then I'll make sure that somebody else says thank you whether it's the CEO or the president the more personal the better whether they pick up the phone and leave a voicemail whether they send an email sometimes I've drafted the email and they send it right so you make it really easy for whoever's going to be the leader Jennifer I'm curious sorry to interrupt my question is do we thank them and do we thank them regardless for the meeting do we ask a secondary thank you to come from someone if they you know do not commit to that gift then and there like how do you handle that yeah a lot of times I do depending on the on the you know the level or the level of interaction they've had with somebody else you know thank you so much for considering this I know this wasn't the right time or that this but we just want to say how much we value because they're probably they're likely still a donor or some you know involved and you you want to continue building and just because someone says no doesn't mean they're not going to say yes in the in the future so I do you know the the messaging is of course different and in a lot of maybe situations thank you so much for considering this you know it's such an honor you know that we're so honor that you are considering such a significant you know investment in us and then if they say yes you know you start thinking about a stewardship plan and when you know usually it's okay and we're going to we're going to create an agreement and send this agreement and then have a stewardship meeting with them and ask them how they want to be thanked you know giving them options a lot of people some people would value something that's like more grand and maybe more costly other people want to see the full amount of their gift go towards the pause and would actually be turned off by something more extravagant right and then some people want real personal meeting like we've created albums and picture books or cards with personal messages maybe there's a connection an opportunity to connect with the beneficiary and get that kind of thank you so those are all important and what I'm hearing too is you know get creative and customize it for that individual or the groups of individuals you know I'm thinking of like family giving as a major ask that's a big thing now especially with a lot of you know like collective family wealth multi generations you know being part of the decision being part of the solicitation and the investment so I love all of these areas of of possibilities you know as we wrap up I just we are going to pull up of course your contact information thank you so much I have to ask you because I feel like this might be the elephant in the ring when it comes to a major gift for me my understanding is that is determined and decided on individually by every organization so you know as our viewers and listeners are thinking about this it's like oh a million dollars a quarter of a million like I would love to sit down with someone and ask for ten thousand or five thousand yes absolutely I don't want to turn up it's just my personal like in academia but it's every organization has its own it might be a thousand dollars five thousand dollars and all of these strategies are pertaining to any level of that absolutely yeah I so appreciate this conversation Jennifer you know really looking at the diversification of funding and the sustainability model of the revenues for our one point eight million dollar or sorry million registered nonprofits you know we have to have these conversations we have to you know sit down face to face whatever that might look like so thank you for bringing these five strategies for major donor success you always bring such insightful and again eloquent information so thank you oh it's been a pleasure absolutely a favorite topic indeed well you can tell hey everybody again I'm Julia Patrick CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy been joined today by the non-profit nerd herself Jared R. Ransom CEO of the Raven Group again these amazing days like we've had today come to us with support from Bloomerang American Nonprofit Academy your part-time controller nonprofit thought later fundraising academy at National University staffing boutique and the non-profit nerd without their support we wouldn't be able to have these amazing conversations so thank you so much Jennifer I learned a lot today I was reminded of some things and I love how you put it all together for us so thank you thank you thank you my pleasure thank you for having us hey it was a lot of fun everybody tomorrow it's even going to be more wonderful so join us again and as we'd like to end every episode we want to remind everyone to stay well so you can do well thank you ladies