 Welcome to the wide world of eSports, a show devoted to all things eSports. I'm your host, Catherine Norr. Today, our topic is Map eSports Network. With me is Jacob Miles, the third, the CEO of Map eSports Network. Welcome Jacob. Oh, thank you. Thank you. I'm so glad to be here. Okay, so tell us about your company. Map eSports Network is really focused on helping to bridge the digital divide throughout America. We're a play and learn company with community touch points that include mentor based gaming centers. Includes media, magazines, podcasts, social media, and eSports League, which is our Power Players League. That support eSports fans, kids, and families with STEM and STEAM based initiatives. Again, to help prepare mainstream and disadvantaged children for the most in demand jobs and the jobs of the future. Terrific. All right, let's show the video. Want to connect with video gamers and eSports fans? Map eSports Network is the first full service eSports Network offering podcasts, magazines, gaming centers, and streaming content. Plus, we have a new eSports League that brings the positive benefits of eSports to all communities. That's right. The future of eSports is here. It's right now. The future is Map eSports Network. If it's about eSports, it matters to us. Visit us at mapesports.net. So Jacob, it's so exciting. Now, you know, you said something about that I thought was interesting. You said magazine. Okay, because when I think about magazines, I think about there are some eSports magazines. Tell us about what you're doing in that area. We have three different magazines. And our magazines are focused on the one in particular are tied in with our gaming center. And they're focused on celebrating those grassroots kids who participate in eSports. But we will celebrate them throughout our magazines. We'll celebrate them on our podcast network. And we celebrate them in as many ways as we can because they are the future and and that's our focus. So who's your target market for Map eSports Network? Well, you know, eSports, as you know, is is relatively new and not well understood today. And so as a result of our target market to begin with is the parents and the adults to help them understand eSports. A lot of the kids, they know eSports, you know, but it's the it's the adults that need need some education on eSports are as one gentleman from the Texas Workforce Commission that we're working with said, Jacob, I understand the robotics and engineering and media. But I'm going to have to go to church on this eSports thing. So he needed a little preaching to to understand it. And so our audience is the family and the kids as well as the parents. And obviously we have various different messages for each. Sure. And a lot of times you just have to tell someone Google it because they don't really get it. Right. Exactly. Exactly. They don't get it. And, and a lot of times you got to tell them in, in words and comparables that they that they understand, because at different cultures, different levels of economic scale. You can't speak to everybody the same way. Sure. Well, you know, I, I started this show, the wide world of eSports in the summer of 2020. And during a pandemic, it's kind of interesting to start something and I understand that you're a pandemic business as well. Tell us about how you started and why. Well, when we initially started, we were going to start with events. We immediately had to shift because events went away with COVID. I was coming back from Toy Fair, and we had plans to do an event around eSports and video gaming. And we were partnering with the eSports Stadium, Malington on that particular event, and had to pull the plug on it, because everything got shut down. So then we switched our focus to digital. And with that we launched our podcast network and YouTube channels and so forth. And how do you think that the pandemic impacted you? I mean, was there anything positive or was it all kind of a negative business situation? Well, for us, it was very positive. It was positive because everything in eSports went online. And when you look at the video game industry, as I tell folks, eSports is a sub-segment of the video game industry. And the video game industry was already moving online. They were moving to the cloud. And so this just accelerated things as far as the video game industry is concerned. And so it was very positive for us. We just kind of slid right in there with the evolution of the industry. So tell us about your podcast. We have eSports, Map eSports Podcast Network is, we started out with podcasts that focused on helping people understand eSports. And so we have, I believe, eight shows on the network now. We've got, oh, I think four in development. And the shows are around marketing. That one's with Rebecca Longawa. And we have John Davidson who is obviously known in the industry. We also host the podcast show for the eSports Trade Association. We have Dr. Mark who does a masterclass in eSports tied to HBCUs. And then we have all in with the eSports with NBC journalists, Louis Johnson, who just arrived back in Tokyo for the Paralympics. He also did the Olympics as well. And he marries eSports and sports and Olympics. And he also does the NBA and NFL and so forth as well. And so we have a variety of shows. And this edition of shows focused on helping people understand eSports and all the excitement that's taken in place in our industry. Now our next crop of shows will be all kids focused show. Sure, and will you have back hits. Pardon me hosted by kids. Oh, that was my next question because that's exciting. We've got two in production right now and off their hill areas. Oh, I think that'll be fun and that will actually gain a lot of viewers so you did mention on john Davidson of eSports trade association. Yeah, so are you a member. Member supporter sponsor. Absolutely no question will be there in September for their first in person event and very excited about that we are the official podcast network for the event. Terrific and so what, what value do you find that eSports trade association gives you. You know, trade associations are critical for industries grow. And it's critical because they promote the industry. They also bring together the industry for networking opportunities. They bring together the interest, the industry for education opportunities. And so, if you want to connect with folks efficiently. So then the trade associations, usually enable you to do that, as opposed to running around, trying to see and get in touch with 30 different people. You can go to a trade association event and you can touch 30 different people in a couple of days, you know, whereas that would be impossible. A month or sometimes even a year to catch up with folks without the trade association event. Yeah, I can, I completely agree with that a lot of my guests are from the eSports trade association and that's how we met as well. So I understand you have a very interesting background tell us about that. Well, you know, I began as an at risk kid and housing projects of Cincinnati, and through mentors of a church and family members were able to rise above my circumstances and become an engineer. And starting out with GE doing aircraft engines. And then to Procter and Gamble doing tooling, which was my first intro introduction to consumer product, and then into toys. And that was with Kenner toys there in Cincinnati and once I landed in the toy business. And this is it. I found my home, and I've been in a toy and gaming business ever since, and I've had the chance to work on some of the most popular brands in pop culture, worked with George Lucas on Star Wars and worked on just about every major item that that's out there over the years, but worked with Kenner and then General Mills toy and entertainment group and Tonka Corporation and my last job in the industry was, oh, Sega can't forget Sega work for Sega was on a team to introduce Sega game systems in America, and then worked for Hasbro for as the Vice President for Hasbro was the last job I held, and was there when we did the magic the gathering and deal and, and, and so forth. And the toy industry is is the entertainment industry. And when you look at toys you look at video games. You know, we were doing video games in the toy industry back in the 70s. You know Parker Brothers, which was part of the Kenner Parker and General Mills group was doing video games. Coleco was doing Coleco vision and Mattel was doing and television. You know, of course, all of that evolved into play stations and and Xboxes and the 10 bills and and Sega game systems and so forth. And so they're all part of the entertainment industry. And I see them as reflections of life toys or reflections of life video games or reflections of life. We exaggerate life or we downplay different components, but at the end of the day, their reflections of life. It's kind of interesting because in the toy industry it seems like, you know, back way back when toys were objects, and then it has evolved to interacting with screen and, you know, more interaction. What are your thoughts about how that has changed and it seems like toys, like games have been, it's wrong. And the audience, it used to be that toys were more for adults, I mean for children. And then now with video games, it extends the time that you would play what are your thoughts on that. No question. I mean, I have a lot of the toys I've worked on over the years. Action figures, for instance, Star Wars action figures, you know, all kinds of stuff like that electronic held held games that we used to do. But when I go to the store and go, I still walk the toy owls and the video and video games owls at toy toy stores. But when I go to the store and walk down the toy action figure line. It's adults. It's more adults than it is kids, because they're collectibles. They've become they've turned into collectibles and Sotheby's and Christie's are auctioning off these action figures so you've got 40 year olds buying action figures. So, and video games are the have not only brought than older generation as they've grown up with video games. It also has taken that same generation and brought them into collectibles and the physical side of the games because obviously Star Wars is a video game. Fortnite is a video game. You walk in the toy owls. There's Fortnite toys. There's Star Wars toys. There's NFL toys. There's NBA toys, you know, action figures, you know, and so they go hand in hand. And I'll see, think you'll see in eSports more and more interaction between physical toys as inside of inside of the eSports games and so out of the video game. There'll be different ways you'll be able to interact with the two. And some of those things in development now that is going to be very, very exciting. That's super interesting. So let me ask you a big question. So how can eSports make the world better, Jacob? Well, I think the way that eSports can make the world better is that for us not to fall into what I call the pro trap. And the pro trap is driving and trying to communicating to these kids through our action that the way to success, the only way to success in eSports is to be a pro. And with, you see it in basketball and football, kid playing basketball, I'm going to be LeBron James. Well, no, you're not. You're not going to be LeBron James, you know, and you're probably not going to be a pro eSports player making tons of money either. But we have to make sure they understand the careers and opportunities behind eSports, you know, because those are some great jobs that generate very, very positive lifestyles and livable wages. You know, as graphic artists as writing computer code, even announcers, you know, in podcast hosts, you know, but those are the things that we have to do we have to communicate what's behind eSports as well as eSports the game. And I'm actually an eSports attorney and mediator. That's a great example of that and I've had many people on the show that are now I've had gamer doc who is a medical doctor treating eSports people I've had psych sensei who is a psychologist in this space. And, you know, it's a there's a huge industry of marketing and people involved in branding advertising. Absolutely. Well, and you know, so it's definitely huge and has a huge ecosystem. So what do you think the future of eSports is like so exciting. As I mentioned earlier, right now, we think of eSports as a controller, you know, a mouse, you know, and, and looking at a video screen. eSports is going to become more physical. It's going to become an example would be an eSports dodgeball game. You know, that is, is it's done with a ball, an imaginary ball, but the computer can analyze the trajectory, and you throw the imaginary ball and the person got to move out of the way. The computer is calculating whether they move fast enough and so forth whether they get hit. And then this all on the screen. You know, you know, those kinds of things are going to be of the future. Everything that you see in real life is going to be in the eSports game. And we're seeing that with concert inside of an eSports game inside a fortnight. There's a concert. You know, there's going to be dating inside of eSports game. You know, I mean, just anything that happened in real life, we're going to see it inside the eSports game. Do you think that with more of these more active type games and more virtual reality that the eSports athletes will actually have to be more physical and doing their work because I, you know, now they're mostly sitting down and you know their eyes and their hands but do you think they'll have to be standing up and moving. No question. And I think that'll be a different class or division. You know, of eSports. So I think eSports will will broaden as it grows. As we know, every video game is not a eSports, but every eSports is a video game. So what we will see is what is defined as an eSports is going to change over time. And it's going to broaden and you'll have different classes different divisions and some will be more physical and some will be sitting in a traditional way that we started. Do you think that eSports will find a place in the Olympic game. Yes, I know that it will. And it is going to come into you heard it here, and to the Paris games, eSports will make its debut in the Paris games. Our, our league, the Power Players League is patterned after the model that the Olympic has generated in that we don't have any human simulated killing in our league. And the Olympic eSports will not have any human simulated killing in Olympic eSports play either. So, but definitely going to we had a team in Paris earlier this year in the middle of COVID, which was interesting. But matter of fact, in that video clip was the Lewis in Paris, talking to some of the folks in eSports cafe that we're teaming up with. Yeah, that's a really big interest of mine I've done a lot of speaking all over the world on Olympic risk management issues. So I'm particularly interested in Paris and how that's going to happen. And we're kind of moving around the world a bit so let's talk about America versus South Korea, China, Europe, and eSports. What do you think is the difference in terms of eSports in, you know, different places in the world and why. And do you think eSports is as important in America as it is in those other places. We've got some work to do here in the United States. When you look at eSports in South Korea, in China, and in different parts of Europe, you know, they have, it has become an industry. And, and a relatively mature industry here in America, we're at the beginning stages. We're trying to develop it into an industry. You know, and so, you know, you can count our eSports stadiums on one hand. You can't count China's on one hand, you can't count Korea's on one hand, you can't count Europe's on one hand. They are ahead of us. There are a lot of reasons for that. But there is, we have the technology, we have the publishers. We have everything to lead in this area in eSports being an industry. And what we don't have is the infrastructure to support an industry. And that infrastructure, a lot of that is media infrastructure. So for it to become an industry, we can't just have pros. We have to have the grassroots involved, you know, because that the masses is what makes it a full blown industry. And one of the reasons that we have not excelled the way they have is that when you look at Korea in China, everyone gets the same bandwidth. You know, and it's one, it's one service. Here's 5G for everybody. So here, we probably got 10 5G's, you got Verizon's 5G AT&T's 5G Spectrum's 5G. I mean, you got, and none of them talk to each other. You know, so you got to have some of something that the one can talk to the other that hinders eSports play that hinders mobile play, you know, because you don't have an equal plan field. You know, and if one guy's got much better bandwidth than you, then how are you going to compete against them and play on mobile eSports? You know, so we're way behind in mobile eSports. We're catching up in the, I call it desktop eSports, but so we've got some work to do. We've got to have more people like you that can celebrate, promote the industry and make sure everyone is aware of it, but we have so many corporations, they're senior executives do not understand eSports. Right. And you and we can't, we can't grow with it with that being the case. Right. And we have a problem in Hawaii because we do have. You know, we do have some latency in terms of servers being on issues, although we've had Overwatch League come to Hawaii and compete most summer in a tournament. We have a positive step forward but I feel like almost Hawaii we need to catch up with LA and New York and Atlanta, but we really need to catch up with other areas of the world like China and Europe and South Korea. So, do you have any thoughts on how we can move in that positive direction? Well, I mean, I think the biggest thing is having organizations like the eSports trade association to promote and grow the industry. And then we got to help them grow because they're not there yet, but they need to grow to the point where they can power lobbyists. What trade associations do they lobby on behalf of different industry. Right now, there are no lobbyists for eSports. So there's no one promoting eSports and things that are our business friendly for us. You know, you have the video game industry, but I grew up with a lot of the guys that are running that in that running that are running video game publishers. And they will tell you in a minute, we're not interested in promoting eSports. We're interested in promoting Fortnite. We're interested in promoting Call of Duty. You know, now that's the eSports game but we're not we're not selling eSports we're selling Call of Duty. We're selling Fortnite. You know, for me to sell eSports then I'm helping my competition. Sure. Yeah, I mean, that's not what I'm trying to do. So right now we don't have we don't have a beacon. We don't have that that entity or that that that industry that's out there beating the drum. And that's what map eSports has built itself as is to be here to support and grow the industry by celebrating the players, the companies, you know, and and helping people to understand how big and important this industry can be. So, how can people contact you and find out more about your company. They can contact us at sales at map esports.net.com. I'm sorry for sales, but they can visit our podcast at esportsfpn.com. And they'll see there that the different shows and so forth to get a better understanding about what's going on in eSports. And they can also go to our website at map esports.net. Well, Jacob, it's been terrific having you as a guest today and we learned so much. Appreciate it. Oh, I enjoyed it so much and I'm ready to come to Hawaii. Fantastic. Well, we look forward to seeing you. So, thank you for joining us today and next week, my guest will be Dexter Carr Jr. to tell us all about game for good. See you then.