 Hello everybody. I'm your host Theo Wilton, and today we're joined by professional cyclist Jay Cullenbock. I'm really excited to be talking to him today because one of the things that stood out to me and my research about him was that not only was he very well accomplished and like very successful and talented in his craft, but he was also a really good teammate and really helped support his team and grow his team into what it is today. Yeah, I'm a kind of local Vermont cyclist. Been doing it for I guess kind of competitive bike racing for coming up on almost 20 years now and Yeah, kind of do road cycling for many years and then do kind of doing mountain biking and Some of the new kind of gravel riding and racing as well these days. Yeah, that's definitely gravel racing and definitely like a big growth in Vermont in the last few years. Yeah, it's an interesting kind of boom in general in the cycling world and then especially, you know, Vermont is actually kind of become a kind of a center hub of the riding of the racing touring of all of that. Yeah, definitely, which is really cool. So first things first, tell me about what sports you played growing up and then how you kind of got into cycling. Yeah, so growing up definitely did a decent bit of downhill skiing, a little bit of cross-country skiing and then kind of did some some soccer and then I really loved my kind of passion was always basketball. Growing up, I really, you know, studied the like statistics of players and you know did summer camps and really loved basketball. And then as I got into into high school kind of quickly realized that, you know, being a good basketball player in Vermont or even a mediocre or poor basketball player as I was, it wasn't really going to get you far and yeah, it's just kind of like kind of came to a realization. I was really better built for like the kind of endurance like running, cycling, cross-country skiing, sports, and then in the high school years kind of transitioned towards doing those sports. Kind of carried that into some time at UVM doing competitive running on the track and field and cross-country teams. And then kind of then made a big like kind of transition away from running to cycling in that in the time at UVM. There's a period where they cut the track team. That was when I was there. So then I kind of made the decision. I'd always kind of had an eye. I think that's a lot of young people do of like seeing the Tour de France on TV and catching a few minutes and kind of wondering what that was about and like knowing a few people who were into cycling. And so I'd always been curious about the sport and it was like that was a kind of a natural life transition to then as a young athlete in college to switch over to biking. Yeah, and yeah, kind of pursued that from then on. Yeah, I think that's a pretty common story that a lot of cyclists can relate to. Yeah, especially the going from playing like more ball-oriented sports. I know like Lance Armstrong for example did that growing up in Texas. Yeah, but then he found he was more built for like endurance athletics. Yeah, so going off to your initial curiosity for cycling. What makes bike riding so special to you that you would want to dedicate so many like hours to training and preparation? Yeah. I mean to be honest like from coming from like basketball and then coming from running honestly like the equipment and the gear like to be completely I just always fascinated me of like you know you have the equipment of the bike and all the parts to kind of go with it the shoes and the helmet and like it's this like extension of it's not just you it's like kind of being married with the bike and and That just always kind of like was appealing and the equipment looks kind of cool and sexy and then I just like kind of have a passion for like thinking bikes are cool and then Yeah, I mean just in Vermont. It's so like it's such a beautiful place in state to explore You know running you know I grew up kind of down the street from Shelburne Farms and did a lot of running in there Which is like I mean it's like a theme park for a runner to be a high school runner a college runner and that's that's the place where you have to explore but then Beyond that like because you know getting into road cycling It was just you could I could see so much more of the whole state You know going over the mountains and riding, you know in the Champlain Valley You know north, you know north of Burlington South Burlington, you know even into the Adirondacks a little bit Just the kind of pace of travel and how much you get to see I mean you can go out for you can do a good 90-minute run And see a fair amount, but if you you can ride a bike for four or five hours and see so much of Vermont So that that kind of I really love that. Yeah, definitely exploration on a bike is pretty much unmatched Yeah, that's pretty much even better than like on a car because you're really connected to the land in a different way exactly Yeah, you see in people, you know Gardening in their front yards and you know animals, you know turkeys in the field Yeah, all sorts of all sorts of crazy things you see. Yeah when you're out riding So one thing you mentioned that you earlier was that you like studied basketball statistics Yeah, and you mentioned how you like all the equipment on like a bike Yeah, so do you like do you think you're a person that focuses on like little things like drivetrain efficiency and aerodynamics and like You're rolling resistance. Yeah. Yeah, I would say I like to be like informed and aware of all those things and then kind of like Self-selectedly decide what I wanted to kind of choose to incorporate so I try to keep things like you know Pretty straightforward and simple but make sure that yeah I guess almost like making sure I'm not making any big mistakes leaving anything like big on the table in terms of yeah Speed and efficiency and yeah things like that And yeah, just kind of aware of I guess trends. It's an interesting sport You know any sport where there's equipment whether it's something like skiing or car racing or bike racing and there's like There's these progressions over the equipment and kind of keeping keeping Forward of that is interesting. Yeah, for sure like even in the Tour de France this year. We've seen Every team pretty much transition from tubular tires to tubeless Yeah, and then also in EOS was the last team to make the transition to disc brakes The disc brakes. Yeah, so all those little things can really add up and make a big difference Yeah, yeah, and even in road cycling there was a really important one of the biggest and most important races in Italy in the beginning of the year Was pretty much one by the use of a dropper seat post which is like a mountain bike technology that this One rider decided to incorporate into a road bike which nobody ever even like thought of it It was like it's just so interesting to like be able to kind of use those kind of You know Just thinking about the equipment to make those you know those choices and yeah get a result Yeah, it's always fun to be fast. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, it's just yeah It's fun and be comfortable. Yeah, so next thing about being fast. Tell me about how your training program was structured Yeah, I mean honestly when I first came into cycling, you know, really not much structure I'd always come from Track and field, you know doing it with whether it was a high school or whether it was in College and basically, you know, you kind of showed up to practice and you found you know, you did the workout and You know, and there's a little bit of collaboration. I had one good especially good assistant coach at UVM Jogging grass who's still there and there was you know, there would be a some amount of collaboration in terms of Figuring out what I was going to be doing coming up But really he was kind of helping figure all that stuff out. So then when I got into cycling I Would say like initially it was just you know so many skills to just learn to ride the bike You know like to be able to take a water bottle out of the water bottle holder while you're moving along You know just simple skills like that in the first year a couple years To ride the group and then kind of figuring out Yeah, you really need to ride longer like the time just the time spent needs to be more Yeah, I'm kind of trial and error and then I was Kind of fortunate enough after a couple years to join a team from kind of the kind of north of Boston area called CCB Which is still around today kind of one of the you know teams that's been around in New England for a long time and had a couple good Kind of mentors the guy who ran the team and then one of the older riders on the team who really Who really taught me a lot of kind of what I learned to know which I guess I've always been Even though I helped some people with some structured training now Kind of have been somewhat less structured in my own riding And especially these days having a kid and a family and still trying to work a little bit Not that structured, but Yeah, kind of like figured out what worked and what didn't work and when to do certain rides in advance of a race And yeah, how kind of for me how I recovered. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of trial and error over say a decade Yeah, yeah, so like in the lead-up to a race. Would you typically want to do like lower effort and higher volume? Yeah, I was kind of a Funny rider initially I would say in the first couple years when I was racing and I would like not do too much riding in the period like right before Races and a lot of times I would feel like really if it was a weekend of racing. I would feel really bad on Saturday Yeah, a little bit better on On a Sunday and then when I got home on Monday and was riding by myself I would just feel like a million bucks like so so fast like I wish I had you know I might have gotten dropped from the you know the front group on the weekend and I felt like I could just fly So then really common was I would actually start to do Actually like pretty long kind of harder rides on a Thursday if I was racing on the weekend like which is I Don't know if that's what a lot of people did but all of a sudden I even though I was a little Like maybe physically tired. I would just sleep better I was somebody who like kind of would like sometimes over and be nervous or excited before a race and not sleep Well the night before and just doing that bigger longer ride on the Thursday. It kind of made Yeah, help just kind of relieved the nerves and and yeah, then Definitely once I started doing that it took me took me a couple years to kind of figure that out And then once I started doing that I could show up on Saturday and Sunday and feel pretty good. I'm ready to go. It's pretty interesting. Yeah, that one. Yeah So my next question for you is Moving away from training and more towards like a race day. What has been your most memorable racing experience? Oh, I know there's been a lot for you. Yeah, it's definitely years and years Yeah, I would say like one of Kind of one of the most I think like interesting races or ones that I had done was It's it's not running now, but the company Louis Garno which in you know in the US is based in Vermont, but in Globally, they're in Quebec City They used to run a race that would finish at the Louis Garno headquarters and it started in Montreal So it was a point-to-point race. That was you know one a one day race about 250 kilometers and all the way to Quebec City and it's Yeah, it's just a race. I'd kind of heard a little bit about and then finally got to go up to it one year and Kind of had like a European feel with like all the team cars and you know It's a point-to-point. So there's a lot of organization of getting people on feeds and and so prevailing cross tailwind and the first year I did it there was a prevailing cross tailwind and It was unlike anything I'd ever done. There was like a group of 17 riders that made a break and Some people who just you know down the road in a couple years became, you know, really top riders internationally Canadian riders who were there that year and Yeah, I think like literally the average speed was something like 30.5 miles an hour Which at the time I had done it It was it was the fastest race I'd ever done in the longest race, which is yeah, just a unique experience and Yeah, that was a really favorite of mine kind of cool experience So what was your going through your mind when those echelons were forming and what do you learn from that? Yeah? It was very painful. So yeah with the cross tailwind basically with the speed that the riders are moving at The the draft is really is kind of fast and short and so riders will you know move over to the side of the road So everybody basically almost a hundred riders long is in the wind and fighting I spent about the first 50 minutes of that day just riding like in the gutter of the road Avoiding, you know, you know stuff in the side of the road and you know because you're trying to catch a little draft moving at that speed I mean it's not possible to ride at that speed by yourself so you're trying to kind of stay in the draft and you're at the edge of the road and Yeah, I don't think I shifted out of the two hardest gears on my bike It's a you know, this is an entirely flat road along the St. Lawrence I don't think I shifted out of the two hardest gears in my bike Until somewhere into the second hour of the race. So Yeah, it was really fast hard to eat food. I actually like we stopped that the little like kind of Funny team we were on we stopped at like Tim Hortons that we're always running late the races just uniformly and like We were running late and we stopped at a Tim Hortons that morning and I had a breakfast sandwich Tim Hortons breakfast sandwich stuffed in the in in my jersey and In the breakaway after after probably two two and a half hours Like things calm down a little bit to where like instead of just eating a gel Calmed and we were you know able to like take a break and eat some food And I pulled out that Tim Hortons sandwich and I remember all the Canadian riders I could they almost could like hear the rapper of a Tim Hortons rapper opening and everybody looked over to see what I was eating and I got a couple like trade offers for a couple water bottle like a water bottles. I'll give you a bottle Yeah, you give me some of that sandwich and I I ate that whole sandwich. It was delicious. Yeah, so yeah I love Tim Horns exactly living in Ottawa. It's really big up there Yeah, exactly and also riding around like the St. Lawrence Valley. Yeah, really beautiful Really flat at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't want to go into the headwind But with the crosstail on that your back. It was yeah, it was really cool. Yeah, so looking at your race record Yeah, I know that you've had a lot of success winning races at the criterion stages Which is just for those of who don't know is just laps usually around like in a city Yep, and so that's definitely one of your strengths, but what do you consider your other strength? Maybe outside of Criterions, yeah, I would say generally like Probably it's like somewhat more technical courses. So courses where there might be a fair amount of like descending or cornering I mean generally at like I think once I'm in shape. I'm reasonably well-rounded rider certainly kind of Probably the least the least strong suit would be like long extended climbs at the end end of races But shorter shorter kind of punchy climbs. I usually enjoy but I particularly enjoy I think I got to a point Where with like efficiency on the bike? I'm pretty good in like moving moving kind of through a field And kind of knowing kind of understanding the races it took a you know, and that that's something that probably took You know really like started to get better after six or seven years and then Yeah Took it takes a while to learn that stuff I think for you know, I started in my early 20s for riders who might start when they're in their teens They might kind of pick up that that stuff a little quicker and a little earlier But I do feel like I was able to kind of push through and kind of master some of those like the tactics and the pack skills that yeah again like that I had one teammate on that Team CCB a guy named Amos Brumble who's kind of like a Underground legend of New England in terms of like the skills and the understanding of races and I learned a lot from him Yeah, definitely like moving through a field moving through a peloton takes a lot of years just to get used to that Yeah, exactly like a veteran skill. Yeah. Yeah, just stay calm When you're doing all that stuff. I would just realize like when I first the first Years when I was starting I would finish a race weekend And just be like physically tired, but especially like mentally exhausted Yeah, just because like trying to be in a pack and like Understanding the tactics and you know moving around safely and kind of trying to figure out what I wanted to do What other people will want trying to do. Yeah, it's like this, you know from running It's if running is checkers bike racing is chess and there's just so much mental energy that is constantly going into figuring out what's happening and Initially as a young rider that was just exhausting Where all the thinking and figuring all that stuff out is not like intuitive and then I all of a sudden got to it Like a point where like I noticed it because the feeling of like constant butterflies and nervousness Having that before race on a start line like it started to subside and just realized like oh I kind of like Understand that this isn't a strict kind of constantly stressful or mentally taxing. Yeah, definitely like different tactics They're really interesting to kind of learn about you having a powerful team around you That's well experienced can be the difference between winning and losing. Yep I'm definitely like seeing that at the tour this year. Yeah, he taught at Pagacar is maybe the best rider Absolutely Yumbo Visma is the best all-around team. Yep. Yeah, and it's especially interesting in this like He's having it Pagacar is having an issue of like in the day and age of COVID He's had several teammates kind of test positive during the race And they have to be kind of taken out or removed from the race So he's got a team of kind of dwindling riders and I'm sure you know somewhat dwindling morale as well as this other really powerful team with many riders Is able to kind of execute a tactics and plans on the road. Yeah, it makes a big difference Yeah, and that's an interesting thing Kind of conceptually to kind of understand as a young rider. I mean there certainly are Times and types of races. I mean it's one of the things about especially about mountain biking and gravel biking where like the team Component is less. That's more individual more individual the road cycling is Occasionally there's courses where it doesn't really come into play, but most of the time Yeah, I'm in elite cycling it is definitely a big component. Yeah, definitely having like just a few days ago Pagacar didn't have any teammates to like drop back and give them food Yep, and then he cracked on the last time of the day. Yeah, this goes not enough calories Yep, exactly and yeah talking with some friends the other day kind of about some of the tour stages of like I was especially on like climbs of like what's the benefit of having some teammates around and like I was saying like yeah, some some of it's like pacing and things like You know getting food, you know food and drink bottles from them But some of it's just kind of the comfort literally comfort of like hey This person is in the same Jersey and they're like they're helping. They're helping me and like it's just Situations can be a little less scary of like certain riders trying to drop your attack and Being able to keep up with people when you have teammates around. It's just kind of a like a feeling Reassuring reassuring exactly. Yep. Yep. So yeah, one thing you keep harping on is just that cycling is really mental Yeah, so what are some things like you do before race just to get yourself mentally? Prepared yeah, I mean these days These days a lot less But yeah, I would you know It's a balance a little bit of for me It was always a little bit of a balance of like trying to understand The you know, I look at like the courses trying to understand like you know Well, you know if there were climbs or specific, you know critical points of a course of where that would be and where that would come Certainly would oftentimes look at like You know riders who are gonna be in a race So that you know on the start line I kind of had you know like once you you just see a set of riders and you kind of know What's you know how the race will play out? Yeah, because of course will dictate a race But also the riders themselves and the teams will dictate a race But as I was saying like, you know, I would sometimes get a little too nervous or too excited or You find to find it hard to sleep the night before race So it was a balance of like trying to know those things But trying to not know too much and overthink it where I would get nervous or yeah So you have trying to stay calm a little bit trying to stay calm exactly. Yeah, and sometimes that would be like, you know instead of You know getting to sleep perfectly on time It was like relaxing with a movie with some friends the night before and just kind of trying to forget about the cycling of the racing Yeah, so in Vermont. We're pretty lucky that we have like accessed all these backcountry roads Yeah, bike on yeah, and then even here in Burlington. They've been investing in bike paths in the last few years Yeah, so I'm curious as to what are some of the ways you're staying kind of active in the Vermont cycling community. Yeah I mean, I've been fortunate Kind of since actually about the same time when I when I started really cycling and bike racing I started working at the ski rack, which is you know, kind of a cornerstone, you know bike and you know sports store in Burlington and Just honestly working there has always really connected me to to what's going on You know work, you know the ski rack has always worked with like programs with You know all sorts of different community, you know organizations and stuff Whether it's you know bike path youth riders Cycling clubs events that kind of stuff and then for myself Probably like eight years ago or so Gradually started working with like young younger riders So helping kind of coach and Kind of figure out like racing for some younger mostly like high school maybe into college racers Kind of coming out of Vermont and helping kind of organize training equipment that kind of stuff For them and I you know all sorts of different things like whether it's Like coming up. There's a rooted Vermont is a is a big gravel race that a Professional tour de France rider who lives in Vermont now Organizes right out of Richmond and I'm gonna help lead a mountain bike race as kind of part of the part of the organization And yeah, there's just always kind of things like that that are coming and going I'd ski rack. I'm curious if your job and your work includes being a mechanic Yeah, not so much exactly like hands-on what you think of a mechanic But I do what I do there is mostly like kind of help people with their bike adjustments Yeah, so what we'll call it bike fitting. Yeah, which has some like kind of it's mechanic light Yeah, you know like replacing handlebars and C-posts and yeah moving cleats around on shoes that kind of thing So yeah mechanic light But that's the kind of main thing and with bikes that I do there. Okay. Yeah, which is really fun Yeah, not too technical. You don't have to like replace bearings. No, yeah I'm not I'm not taking bikes apart and we're putting them together. No So I know you're pretty busy with your life you have like kids at home a wife Yeah, you're still spending time getting out on the bike So I'm curious if you've been keeping up on the tour de France at all. Yeah, I These days I used to definitely when I was younger I would you know get the coffee and the pastries and sit down on the couch when I had more time and Kind of watch the whole stages. I kind of watch Kind of short short highlights these days, which is is awesome. Sometimes I'm able to catch a little bit often times Probably I watched like for bike racing like the mountain bike races the World Cup mountain bike races I try to watch those live sometimes But yeah, I usually watch it's kind of the daily highlights for the tour de France Which is which is good fun and what do you think about some of the younger generation of riders that are coming up now? Yeah It's interesting. I think the You know so many of the younger riders are a mult being multi-discipline. Yeah, which is cycling. There's there's There is Well, there's there's road cycling which includes time trial. There's mountain biking there's cyclo cross riding and Traditionally each of these a rider would kind of specialize And even the many of the younger mountain bike racers There's a number of cycle Cross-country mountain bike racers a help coach and they're even doing the Enduro racing which is almost like more downhill gravity oriented They're doing gravel racing so and you see it at the highest international levels now where I Think just yesterday the rider who won the probably the most important stage of the Tour de France on the Alpe d'Huez He's last year's Olympic mountain bike champion Yeah, exactly and He won the cyclo cross world championships which were in the US this past winter So he's is which is something like ten years ago You know what he would nobody would imagine that what's one rider would do that? And so I think that's kind of an interesting trend of the young riders are So skilled across a diverse. I mean it would almost being like being a World Cup Alpine skier and a World Cup cross-country skier. Maybe not that far apart, but like Yeah, or like yeah pretty close. Yeah, which is interesting Yeah, definitely Tom Pitcock really talented rider and then we see the same things with kind of like wow Venart and Matthew van der Poel Yeah, they're backgrounded cycle across. Yep, which is obviously like going through mud Yeah, really slow, but really technical requires a lot of bike handling skills Yep, and then even now that helps them road cycling in the tour exactly and I think so many of these riders Just love and enjoy riding so many different types of bikes and enjoying all the different things that cycling can offer Yeah, that's just cool. Yeah, there's a fun highlight of wow Venart the other day almost like hitting the back of a Team car and then because of his really good proficient bike handling skills. He's able to kind of swerve and yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, it's the skill level is really really high And it's interesting like hearing I would say like I kind of noticed this a little bit in the last couple years and then I Would hear like kind of older older cyclists on like the international like in the something like the Tour de France Just saying like how challenging Just even moving up in the pack is with the younger rock with the kind of younger riders around them And just I think it's just because these riders are so skilled so adept in terms of balance and steering on the bike Yeah, it is true. Yeah, it's cool to see. Yeah. Okay. You have anything else you want to add before we close? Yeah, go ride your bike everybody. Summer's happening. It's great. Yeah, good message. Yeah Yeah, okay. Well, thank you for talking me with me today, Jake. Yeah, I enjoyed coming in. Okay. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you