 For more videos on people's struggles, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. Hello and welcome to People's Dispatch. Today, we're joined by Alexis Benos, who's with the People's Health Movement as well as the Aristotle Department of Medicine at the Aristotle University of Thessaloniki. And we're going to be talking about the COVID-19 situation in Europe right now. So over the past few weeks, we do know that the COVID-19 number of cases has definitely searched. In fact, the WHO report from November 10 says that there's been a substantial increase in cases. The region saw over half the cases across the world and nearly half the new deaths. And if we look at yesterday's numbers, that is Saturday, at least seven of the 10 top countries which have recorded a maximum number of cases are from Europe. So thank you so much for joining us. And it is very difficult to sort of talk about Europe as one block. Of course, there are a lot of geographical, climatic variations, variations in responses as well. But maybe could you quickly take us through any patterns you see in this new spike across the region? First of all, I want to go back on the first wave of the pandemic. It is interesting to keep that. The pandemic came, the transmission in Europe was done in a way through the root of silk. So it came from China with people, especially business people working in China and then in Northern Italy. And then it went to UK and France and so on and so on. So in the beginning, actually it was said that perhaps it's a new pandemic which is not looking at the social differences because it was okay. So this is the first point that we have to keep in mind. Secondly, what happened in Europe actually very quickly and in Italy about all Europe also is that we have seen that no, it's not a pandemic for all. It is as all pandemics and all diseases actually, it has a very, very specific social class gradient which means the lower classes are the big victims, both in morbidity but in mortality also. So this is one point. The second is that which is unfortunately is going on for all Europe is that as you know, we had the last 30 years, the neoliberal policies all across Europe. Parenthesis here, Europe was the opposite, let's say, from the United States because we had a tradition of welfare states and so on after the Second World War, but after the 98th, starting from UK actually with Thatcher, all over Europe's domination. We have the domination of neoliberalism which means that the dismantlement of the health services, so the public health service all over Europe. So we are going again back on March where we have the input, the incoming of the pandemic and all over Europe we had problems of the public health systems because they were dismantled due to all this, the policies of restriction of the public health and so on and so on. So and this was the crisis that we have seen very tragically if you remember in Italy and Spain and France where the people dying outside of the hospital because there were no space, no personnel, no organization, nothing. So this was the same goes for UK actually also which has also UK, you know, for us working in public health and primary care, UK was the star because of the NHS and all this tradition after 1948 and so on. But also UK, in UK the system is really hit by the so long-standing neoliberal policies which gone actually with both parties there and in other countries also it's the same thing. I mean the social democrats went unfortunately in the same neoliberal path. So we had that, so it was a shock of course, this because all the societies were unprepared has driven to the lockdown issue solutions which is a solution if you don't have done anything before so okay you have to go to lockdown. So this was a big issue and we started then all over Europe of course speaking about you see we need public health services, we need to set up both public health services which mean hospitals and for care but also we need to set up and to enforce the services of public health which means surveillance, epidemiology in order to understand what is happening with this pandemic, where it is, is it's there, locally, professionally, age wise and so on and so on. So which is not happening. So we said at this point and we were a bit optimistic that okay this is a good example, the pandemic and its results in the society, it's a good example of the limits of the capitalistic way of production of organization and so on and so on. So it's a good starting point to speak about health, social rights, how can we work for health in a society working for the health of the population and not for the profit of some. So this was the first, now we are coming today and it is, this is the very sad I think that instead of pushing some more let's call them socialist policies towards health and self-service and so on, in all Europe the governments didn't care about that, they didn't do anything about the public health services and actually they used the pandemic crisis as an opportunity to expand the private sector in all countries also. For example, which is an aberrant issue in the UK, they have outsourced the surveillance system, you mean it's outsourced in private companies, in different private companies, which every company has its own system of recording, you know. So this is for epidemiology and public health is a nonsense because you cannot have an homogenized system of data that you can you know see what is happening and evaluate and inference or that we have to do that or that or the other. So this is one thing here in Greece the government said that they are going to use the intensive care unit beds because we have, Greece is the lowest in the European union in rates with beds per population so they said okay don't worry we're going to use the beds of the private sector and said okay that's not a step but after that they said okay we're going to pay the private sector and actually they doubled the rate of hospitalization just within the crisis they doubled and they said okay we're good but we have to pay them more. So this is the all approach and we are going so we are today in the in the middle of the second wave which is as you know it is I mean even greater than what we were thinking of I mean we are expecting a second wave but this is much bigger in quantity and in the strength of incoming society and we are literally unprepared for that in all countries of Europe I say again and nothing has been done so today we are again in the same situation and as you know for example here in Greece we are now one week in lockdown Austria today was get to know the lockdown is coming back as the only the only solution because we don't have and do anything and here we are going to another issue regarding health I mean because it's not only to care for the people who are ill from the covid or whatever other listen but also to see the factors that are determining health which is the social determination of health and this pandemic as we know already is a big a big danger for the massive health of the of the population because it is driving masses of the population in impoverishment okay in famine actually in Europe we are speaking about Europe in famine so and all this actually now these days we are discussing in Greece and other countries that they are going to be how you say that expulsed by their houses because they you know they cannot pay the rent or the the borrow that they have done so all the all the factors or the determinants of health which are food house and so on and so on are hit and buy and buy the pandemic so we are expecting much more problems of health because of the pandemic so instead of doing that what they are doing I say again in all countries of Europe is that they are turning they are trying to to keep in house into the public health system the problem of covid patients so they are destroying all the services for the other morbidity right okay so this is another issue that we have already and this is have has been counted globally I mean we have an excess death rate of non-covid diagnosis because there's no way to to deal with heart problems or cancer problems or whatever diabetes and so on so we have a lot of morbidity that cannot be expressed cannot be dealt with because there are no services they are closing all services and are putting them under the covid issue now all this I repeat it's a result of the neoliberal policies in our view I mean I mean not only the people's health model but also I'm speaking as a public health specialist and epidemiologist and so on the the the issue which is global it's not only the european very important issue is that we have lost globally the ability what I said before the ability first of all to record data what is happening who is ill who is becoming ill where what are his characteristics or her characteristics socially work wise and so on and so on in order to be able to control the epidemic and this is global I repeat I just want to stress it's not european but it is very important that one metropolis let's say of our public health is the CDC the Centers of Diseases Control in the United States which is also dismantled and they cannot deliver we don't know so today what is happening and this is very important also is that the governments are making lockdowns closing schools or not closing schools or whatever whatever decisions without any documentation without any evidence actually here and I think it is I heard that I'm hearing that it is in Europe in a lot of european countries the government try to victim blaming the people so they are saying they are raising the issue of that all this issue is an issue of personal responsibility okay so it's you the citizen that is the fault of the citizen because you go out because you are not putting your mask or whatever and especially in Greece they are using that against the youth I mean because you know the youth are going out and they are in the platsas with a beer something like that so they say okay look what is happening these are the people that are so they are using that against the population they're they're promoting the idea of personal responsibility and which is very recent in greece and on tuesday we are going to see we're going to have some problem because on tuesday we have it is the the anniversary of the race of the youth in 1973 against the then dictators so every year we are we are having mass manifestations for democracy and so on and so and now the government said because of covid because of the pandemic in order to protect public health they are they made a cozy you know dictator rule that no gathering more than three people is going to be tolerated by the police so they are using also covid first of all as I said before to destroy public health services to to help and give more money to the private sector of health and not only of them and they are using also covid for the shift to anti-democratic rules and tomorrow oppression for the people which is also very important and very right and an issue that we have to to see absolutely globally globally absolutely and this context I just wanted to go back to the key point that you mentioned which is at the heart of this all that is the fact that after the first wave there really was no effort by governments to actually reverse any of the policies they have been following for decades so I just want to maybe go a bit more into the country level aspects or so were there at any points proposals uh say by pan european institutions or say especially people's movements who had a lot of demands of course and was there the possibility in any of these countries that this was being discussed seriously or was it just summarily dismissed across regarding europe especially european union it is interesting also historically I think it's going to be raised I think I understand by political science and history and so on that european union which is an organization very strict on applying the neoliberal policies in in all states and actually Greece was a victim of that as you know in the decade 20 to 10 to 20 2010 to 20 so they have rules and say okay we are europe we have to have our rules and and so on now during this crisis we have we are going back to nationalism for example we have the vaccine next nationalism okay there is no vaccine in the world in my view and this is another issue if you want to discuss that's you know it is a really a virtual discussion that okay so at some point sometime we're going to have a vaccine and every month another company now it's Pfizer then it was AstraZeneca and so they are saying okay we found there is a vaccine and all the governments regarding including the european government they are prepaying from public funds to the private sector for a product that is not there okay okay this is a parenthesis about the vaccine and so even for the vaccine the european countries are not all together I mean now they tried last last month they said that okay we're going to do something like as european union so it is dismantled they don't have we don't have any and actually and this is also very sad for us for us as public health I mean is that the european CDC ECDC which is also a good organization and have a very high quality of scientists there and so it's also dismantled and it's not working it's not actually all these lockdowns and especially also the intra frontiers traveling and so on all the rules regarding the control aiming the control of the pandemic normally have to be come to come from it's CDC from the european control disease organization so no nothing is happening every country is doing whatever the government says and so there is no unfortunately there is not at all any european coordination and the only the only issue that it is positive let's say but anyway is that they lifted a bit the the strictness of the funding issues you know so now every country can put some more money there and then in order to help with the services and so on but also strict in I mean they are not hiring people they are just making contracts of two or three months or five months very short contracts contracts and so on so on the other side and this is now speaking from the side of the movement is that unfortunately what we are seeing all these years of course but now it's even more obvious is that the the capital corporations have a great internationalism they are working very hand-by-hand and then very concretely together and we the people we don't have we have lost that okay and this is an issue I think that we have to raise internationally and people's health movement is working on that of course in order to try to a to say okay what is happening here we have as as peoples of Europe to to stay up to raise up and say okay stop okay and see what we can be done in a European level and we are trying that there is a movement that is actually trying to make every year you know the 7th of April is the day of health so there is also an idea now yesterday I was speaking with French colleagues and comrades to make a big movement for health on the 7th of April which strikes it's on all over Europe in order to push the decision now on the other side what we have as positive let's say from the movement actions is are all over Europe and the world but all over Europe also local and from down to up movements of solidarity which is solidarity from the real practical issues for example you have elderly people that they cannot go to the grocery so some people of the neighbor of the neighborhood they are going to solidarity from the artists and organizing festivals in internet festivals of course and so on so this is a good thing that you know the people thinks and feels that we need solidarity is not only by the government by oppression that we're going to solve this issue absolutely right and in this context quickly to sort of right now we know that of course a more extreme part of winter is coming up again like you said people for instance the risk of evictions is at an all-time high and so right now what are the kind of demands that health activists specifically are making again there's a vast variety and last week for instance Greece had protests by health workers as well so across various parts but you maybe take us quickly through some of the key demands that right now health workers and activists think are a priority so as I said before one priority and a demand that we are making all over all over europe is that we have to strengthen the services of public health which means epidemiology and so on and so on in order to control the epidemic and then to strengthen the services the public health services which means that we are asking first of all to to hire personnel in a permanent way okay with with of course criteria of quality and very well very you know all in open criteria zone which is very important also we have to to help to to we demand the raise of the technical support you know actually here we can make another parenthesis which is interesting in Greece but in europe also and in globally is that this issue you know for example we need the respirators for intensive care units and so on the governments are not doing anything and we have a raising movement wave of philanthropo-capitalism which is coming and saying okay we give you 50 respirators and so on which is really the hypocrisy of all the system you know coming back to us so the other issue that is the the health person and now now in because we are in urgent situation all over europe what is raising as a demand all over europe is the that we have to take over the private sector i mean we are asking that the private sector is going to be taken over by the public system and working as part of the public system which is i think it is not ideological only i mean which is obvious but it is practical i mean we have beds there that are not used so we need this bed we need this intensive care unit so we have to to make it so and again the government and all over europe but in Greece also which i know are much better is they say okay okay and what they are doing as i told you before is they are paying for some beds to them we are we are asking for the confiscation of that it is time to speak about health as a social night we have to confiscate the services in order to have a strength and quality quality services public health system absolutely thank you so much alexis for speaking to us thank you very much thank you that's all we are time for today keep watching people's dispatch you you