 miss out on the conversation we had. Well, we could always repeat what we were just talking about. Three-stage it again. Let's have a cold and dead version of it. That's completely artificial. Well, to be fair, it wasn't really a conversation. It was really more like us talking about metals. These problems. Yeah. We, we, yeah. Oh, the thing about my dick fell off. Yeah. Yeah, it was weird. It was more of an intervention. It was an intervention into your, we told you to stop losing your dick all the time. It just keeps falling off everywhere. I imagine the EFAP intervention would be a psychiatrist talking about how we just, we won't stop talking about like Star Wars and things. Like you need to stop. You've been talking, you talked about a woman for 12 hours. You need to stop. Whoa. That's terrible. You gotta keep, go further. Or we haven't, we haven't talked about it enough. We haven't talked about Star Wars enough. You haven't gone further than you needed to. That's what they'll say about us. You haven't gone further than you needed to. I don't get it. That's how the fucking Welsh went. From the land where it was. My, my Welsh training is not yet finished. I'm out of touch with the Welsh. I have to relearn it. You'll get there eventually. My Welshness has increased double since last we met. Damn. Twice the Welsh double the fall. Sorry chat. You're on screen. You little rascals. Twice the Welsh double the sheep. Ooh. Nice. Is that, is that true? We've discussed this before. I think the, doesn't Welshland have more sheep than people? Probably. Kind of like the Star Wars fandom. Ka chow! But seriously, isn't in Welsh, I feel like there's more sheep than people. Edgy enough. Cause that just implies it's over half consumers. It's like rags. We're looking like a full 90%, okay? At least. Well, I think it gets the idea across that there are more sheep than people in the Star Wars fandom. And if you have any problem with that, feel free to tweet at JXC and let him know exactly how you feel about his Nazi friends on the podcast. Oh, we could. We could open with that tweet then, if you want. We can show the people. Ooh, which one? The one that you shared. Oh, the one about episode four? Well, oh yeah, so I should probably open with that. The wonderful people in chat, they've not seen our coverage of episode four yet because it was supposed to go out yesterday. Unfortunately, YouTube, I was on Discord complaining about this. YouTube did a check, quote unquote, that lasted for seven hours. So, by the time it was done. It took me ages to upload my videos because of that check too. The copyright thing. It took forever. It never takes that long. The ending, it turns out there's nothing wrong. It just started taking long recently. I don't know. With the last, maybe the servers are having trouble or something. It might be explicitly Star Wars related because both of the Kenobi videos that I put out, they uploaded and everything fine, except for the copyright check, which took forever for them to do. Well, yeah, this one, it would have gone out on time. It would have been beautiful, but no, it refused until like well late into the day. I was almost going to sleep and then it went, it's ready now. And I was like, whatever. So. Too late. It'll go out today because we're just doing this little here stream. It'll go out to MozRaws. And I don't know when I'll re-upload this stream. I don't exactly know. You'll know it in the future people. You'll be saying this and being like, I know when you put stuff up. Yeah. Anyway, the episode five coverage is being edited. I was about to say as we speak, not quite whenever we're not speaking. Oh, not right now. Not quite. Yeah. Whatever breaks that are available. But yeah, for those who haven't heard, they're both pretty bad four and five. I think I say it in the recording, but five had a very good reputation. We talked for a while about our theories on exactly why that is. We won't need to talk about five really at all because this video we're covering doesn't go into five and nor do we have to. You'll be able to see all that fresh in the episode. However, it's only guess a spoiler to say that I basically concluded, I think, that it's the worst of the five episodes, number five. I agree with that, yeah. And that is quite an accolade. It's difficult to do that. Yes, because three and four really exist. And two, really, yeah. That's, yeah. Two sort of, two's just... I'm curious if one even really holds up now either. Probably not. Like in any way. When do you think it's better on a rewatch, rarely? And I don't think Kenobi episode one is going to be one of those unusual things that when we take a look at it, it actually improves in quality. Working my way through it in much more detail with a fine-toothed comb. What's wrong with the big fat combs? They miss a lot of stuff. There's too much space in between the teeth. I feel like them being wet does not describe them being fat toothed cones, but rather it's a toothed one. You could be fat and wet, right, Metal? You can, but what I'm saying is it seems to be two different things, you know? It being wet has nothing to do with it being a fat toothed comb. And the only time that you should ever use fine in Kenobi in a sentence is, do you want to watch Kenobi? Fine. Fine. That was a mistake to say that. Yeah, there's a tweet that's got over 10,000 likes where the argument is basically, remember what happened to Ming Na Wen's character in, no, I was about to say Book of Boa, but it was in Mando that that was established, right? His stupid stomach. She got shot in the stomach by a blast. That is not the only example. Well, no, so wait. If you remember, precious, precious chat, that video is still up on the Mula channel. We all laugh our asses off the second we see that. I think it's bloody brilliant. Another example is somehow Palpatine returned. Basically, the ridiculed fucking thing by literally everybody all over the world. I don't even know how that one would be honestly put in these examples. The only one that I think would be controversial among Star Wars fans is the Darth Maul one. We still think it's stupid as fuck, but a lot of people are like, no, no, no, that one works because he survived by being very angry. He was thrown into space or something. He fell down a bottomless pit. I don't even know. He was being chopped in half by a lightsaber. You know, and he was really pissed off about that. I would be upset too, but I don't know if I could just. Yeah. I don't know if that just lets my body survive, you know? Like I've been by second regardless of how I feel about it. Do you have the dark side rags? No, I don't. So what would you know? I have no dark side connection. At least I don't think so. Maybe it's very subversive and subtle. I think of all that a lot of Star Wars fans. Maybe you're just not telling us. Imagine, Jay, imagine all of the Star Wars fans who hate our drama. Yeah, imagine me, I'm right here. I suppose it's true. You killed him. Imagine yourself in like third person, right? Imagine, Jay, imagine all of the people on the internet who love Star Wars and they think that we're big dumb stupids who can't enjoy anything, who unironically say that EFAP has fallen to the dark side amongst themselves. That's pretty cringe. Monk? Monk? Monk? What am I missing? Is this Jungle out there? Sorry, the fourth example is the Grand Inquisitor getting stabbed because he comes back. Yeah, so the fourth reference is on the series itself. So yeah, the point is people survive this. So how's it gonna be shocking that Riva survives being stabbed by Vader? And it's funny because you're like, which time? Yeah, twice now. As far as episode five, it's done. They probably shouldn't have had to say she played dead because that confirms that they expected her to be dead and they just didn't know the difference and that's embarrassing. I'm telling you, man, if I'm in Star Wars and I'm a Sith, I'm just chopping off heads. No, stabbing in one of their many stomachs. Yeah, I just gonna go ham on that. I'm just gonna dice you. You're gonna get diced with the lightsaber. I'm gonna chop you up and put you in a taco. Sweet. Then I'm gonna eat you. So anyway, I guess for anybody who doesn't watch the minis, you psychos, we haven't been liking Kenobi. We've been thinking Kenobi not very good. Wait, what? Chocking. Kenobi is not good. Kenobi is bad. If you think it's not bad, you are wrong. Oh my God. It's incredibly inconsistent. It's super disrespectful and frustrating to watch. It does all the things you'd be worried that it does. Like, contradict the O.T. Contradict. They wouldn't do that. Character traits make everybody stupid through very poorly put together plot lines, waste time and squander potential. What a shame. But you know plenty of people enjoy it and it's nice to see little interviews and videos and assessments and reviews and just check everyone's opinions on everything. And as people may know, Red Letter Media have gone over quite a bit of Star Wars, Star Trek, the Marvel, and then they do some highlights on some more obscure movies here and then and they do their best, the worst stuff. Funny lads. Funny, funny lads. Hell yeah. With a take on Kenobi. And I think some of you in chat would be like, oh, come on, they're just having a different opinion. You know what? I could have agreed with that. If not for how many messages were sent and how many requests were sent to cover this combined with some of the things they actually say in here. Chad, I don't think you're ready. Yeah, you guys send me a lot of messages, way more than normal, about have you seen this? Have you seen what they say? And I get tagged, rags. Have you watched this RLM video? It's horrific. There was something that was said that I was like, I think this is the hottest Star Wars take than we've had about anything. So it'll be interesting to get to that one. And it's said very casually. Oh, then I know exactly which one you mean. I think I do too, but it's hard to tell. So many bad takes happen. I would go as far as saying, both before and after seeing this video, that I would recommend RLM as a channel. They are fun. Oh yeah. They have lots of really interesting takes. They have lots of experience when it comes to the production and consumption of storytelling media. But you know, sometimes they say some things that are a bit strange. And this is no exception. And it like, it hits the ground running. They don't really have a format for how they're discussing this. They just sort of discuss it and they just jump around topics. And so what I've done is cut a one hour video down to 24 minutes because anything we like 100% agree with them on. I figured it wasn't necessary. So for example, they do randomly sort of insert like, wow, how dumb is the trench coat thing? Oh, wow, how dumb is the... Oh, it just realized the trench coat thing hasn't come out yet on our coverage. Yeah, because that's episode four. What things can I wrap up as they have happened? Just all the stupid shit in the first three episodes, I guess, like the chasing. I like them putting, Vader putting everyone's face in the fire. Yeah. Yeah, they have an opinion on that, Jay. Yeah, I was about to mention before we started, actually, it's like, I don't know why we're going through the whole thing. Like there's a bunch of stuff in there that we said as well. But now you said, oh, I cut it down. It's like, oh, OK. Yeah, yeah, and they have a couple of tangent conversations about stuff that I just I don't have an opinion on. One of the ones is like, how tall Vader is. They go on that for a little while and it's just like, I don't think we need to put that in there. Talking about how tall Vader is really a lot, considering how much of a minute in significant detail that is and considering the things that are in this show that are actually important to note. I think it is important to give context. The red red media is seen as like the ones that took down the prequels in a sense. And so there's like an aspect to this where it's like the Kenobi show is practically unparalleled worse with the sequels. A lot of people feel that way. I would go as far as saying it's easily worse. The the prequels didn't like assassinate Obi-Wan Kenobi. This did really quick and several times over. It's kind of weird. Yeah, Obi-Wan's ruined now. They've they've one sucks big time. Any penis as well. And like it's so. Oh, my goodness. But I'd be happy to entertain the idea that, you know, how does it all rank really, you know? But I think a lot of people jump the gun because it's new content where they're just like, this is leagues ahead of the prequels. And it's like, OK, all right, if you say so. I'll say so. And so a lot of their thoughts and perspectives come from like that position. And one of the things that people I think expected as a result of their sort of approach is that they would tear this apart because it's like it's almost like in that same sector of content where it's like Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan, which feels more connected to the prequels than it does to the OT. And so and it may have some reference. So it's just people are like, oh, and look, it's got all the same sort of things you can point out. Plot problems, like awkward production elements. Really poor storytelling, terrible dialogues. Like this is going to be great. And then they sort of did something else. And that's what I mean. So we this is why we were asked by many people to cover this. Now, what I've done is bake in the EFAP logo on it. Intervals. And so hopefully we should be right for getting copyright hit because they run that on their channels as far as I know. It's going to be a bit of a risk because of how the audio works. But we'll we'll see what happens. I think I get little little warnings, right? Or the stream. It'll say stuff before it completely nukes the channel. Right. I don't actually know. I think we should be OK. I'm going to find out. But yeah, I've seen I've seen a couple of people even tweet about this. Like, like how annoyed they are with their reviews. Just like, all right, let's go in. And this is the thing I want to make it clear myself rags. And I think metal are very much biased in favor of RLM. Oh, yeah, I'm watching it all the time. Easily one of my favorite channels. So, you know, not not just trying to hate them for the sake of it. Fringin Jay, however, hate this channel with a fire. Yeah, like, oh, they suck. Yeah. Constantly having to calm them down. Yeah, they said I've seen. I've hated. Oh, God. I just already doubled down. So I can't even make more jokes. So let's just start, I guess. It's already doomed. Yeah. So you guys ready to begin? I'd love to begin. As I said, it really hits the ground running. So here we go. The reason why I'm getting a watch is because you're going to get a link for a watch. I'm retarded, aren't I? Hey, at least I didn't do a chud logic and just show the link on the stream. OK, I get points with that. Right. We're just kind of just run with it. Could just run with it. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, good, good at it. Well, you're going to show the link on stream is an easier mistake to make then. Just not giving a link at all to your your people. And you can see almost together. You can see at the bottom the users that are and are in, like. Yeah, but the invite displays on the center of your screen. So if you miss that you're streaming your screen, wouldn't I just make you a completely foolish mumbo? Also, I see disable chat cover. There we go. Let me let me see this year night. Can I do this year and go there and watch that. Close and then click this link and see what happens if we slim. There we go. If anyone in China wondering the room code is H Y zero. I'm going to see all those things. I was waiting for someone to stop me and then no one didn't. And then she's like, well, since the room code is like to the 25 layers or whatever, I was like, I'll let you get at least halfway. Yeah, it would be a joke at the end of this rainbow of of an adventure. Imagine you read out the whole thing and you said three of those are wrong. It's like, well, I'm trying to do that because how would you even figure that out at that point? Right? I'll give you ninety percent of the room code. Only the real fans will be able to get in. We will we will post the entire room code as part of several different puzzles that we will post everywhere. And if you work out all of the puzzles, before the stream ends, you get in the room. The thing is, if they get in the room, we have to do anything other than allow them to pause and randomly like they don't get to talk to us or anything. It's like they could make a video in that time and then put it on. Oh, yeah. They could be like, hello, something I am here. Record it, warn you, put it on YouTube. The Snyder, paste the link. And we I think it's coming that we just have to let them know. This is a. Oh, I. Oh, my goodness. Oh, what happened? You OK? Oh, no, I I I I logged into a I didn't log in. I'm always logged in, but I went to for affinity to check my notes. And there's a picture of someone in there for Sona getting getting railed by Albert Wesker. And I thought that was amusing that they just kept it used. Yeah, you didn't have to say that at all. It's very interesting that that's that's like, oh, he's got the gloves and everything. No, it's actually. And I'm glad you shared that. I'm glad. I'm glad you decided to stay on during. I just want to die now. They're inside, too. So there's no reason for the sunglasses. They're just glasses. It's sometimes some houses, you know, they have windows and sometimes the sun comes in through the window. Not yet. No, this is probably some umbrella facility and its miles underground. There is they're trying to get as far away from the sun as possible because they're umbrella. If they were parasol, that would be more appropriate for a company name because they're always trying to get underground away from the sun because it's parasol supposed to stop the sun from getting on you. What else doesn't you know what else you get away from underground rags? The fucking rain. So there's no sun down here, but I wish I wish the rain would stop. Been raining in this basement for days. That's how dumb you say it, unfortunately, unfortunately, rainwater does indeed collect and all kinds of aquifers and stuff underground. That's true. The water. I don't think I don't. But I the spirit of your question for your your notification is is I understand what you get and what you're getting out here. Not bad point being umbrella does sound. Does umbrella sound more evil than parasol because of Resident Evil or just like naturally it sounds more evil? Because now we associate the word sound particularly evil. Parasol umbrella. Oh, maybe um, the UMB is like Umbrella Umbra Umbra. Is it is that like doesn't that mean night or something? In a parasol starts with para. Umbra is Latin for shade. OK, oh, like an umbrella Umbra. OK. Like it creates shade and umbrella because Umbra is Latin for shade. We already derailed so hard. We just started. It's amazing. I was going to hit play. We knew the speaking of derail. Have anyone seen those round trains? No. Oh, my goodness. Those round trains. They look like trains. It looks like something in the 1950s that they would think a train will look like in the future. Actually, I didn't actually mean for that to tangent. I just wanted to make the joke. You see, we'll show people around trains later. Speaking of round trains, though, let's watch this video. Well, everybody in. I'm in that way. Wonderful. Excellent. All right. We're in. I found it lovely and charming and fun. The very first episode was because the bar has been set so low from my traumatic experience with Star Trek. I don't know. I don't know what even time they're in with the Picard thing. Right. They could be traveling over the place. Looking at the looking at the words on the cop there, police, ice. It's almost like they messed up and they didn't spell police again. Police police like they forgot the P. O. L. and police and they were going to write it a second time. But yeah, the opening is just a matter of look. Things have been pretty bad, right, like Picard. Therefore, Kenobi is kind of kind of neat. And it's weird because I'm funny enough. It's a Gundam has a comment getting up there on on this video that basically says Kenobi is his Picard. It's like, yeah, this is the same shit, man. I'm confused. Yeah. I've seen that coverage of Picard and Picard looks fucking terrible, of course. But it's weird to be like Picard, so bad. This is a welcome release. Like, how? Yeah, but all right. Guys, no, no. Oh, it hurts. The thing I posted, it hurts. I just I just yeah, I'm not I'm not ain't talking about that. I'm talking about the criticism of the show, which is plenty. And charming and fun. The very first episode was because the bar had been set so low from my traumatic experience with Star Trek Picard. I'll literally enjoy having fecal matter rubbed into my eyeballs. So accurate. Accurate for what Kenobi is having. I was saying rubbed in your eyes. I think that's the meanest thing he says about the show throughout the entire thing. Because I think so. Yeah, he just said it does warm up to the show as it as the episode progresses. Yes. Well, I think it is called. His point there is theoretically fecal matter wouldn't matter to him. I don't think he thinks of the show that way. I suppose so. Yeah. We think it is, though. Oh, yeah. We think the show is and the first episode is just a distant fart. But it quickly turns into full on poo. What we've all said is when we watch like things that are OK, they come across as really good when we watch loads of bad stuff. And then we try and like pull ourselves down a bit like, OK, you know, it's still it's still like it's still got its normal issues as opposed to being great or anything. But they seem to have gone to the point where Picard's so bad, it's it's pushing really bad shit up all the way up to mediocre to good, I guess. But it's so odd because like couldn't Kenobi have been so bad that it pushes Picard up? Is there any reason why they couldn't just switch places? I know it's interesting to think what would have happened if they watched it the other way around, right? Yeah, and watch Picard at all and just watch this. I guess I'm confused, too, because wouldn't wouldn't Star Trek Discovery have been that level of bad from what I hear. Anyway, Star Trek Discovery is hideously awful. Really bad, yeah. I'm assuming there's people in chat who've watched it. I've only heard bad things. No one in chat has watched it. We think that would also maybe prep you for being like, you know what, Picard ain't so bad anymore. And then I was thinking, wouldn't Rise of Skywalker have been so bad that maybe they feel like we've already got over this hump years ago. Yeah, yeah. How far back are we going to go? Exactly, like you keep tracing. You know, like the dawn of time wasn't great. There was there was some bugs, literal bugs. There was a bug in the beginning of the universe was created that's been widely regarded as a bad move. It took millions of years for us to get a check. That's nice. Nice. I got that one. Wow, Nudes, with your references. I guess the point being is that we, too, also think that Star Wars has been terrible for many years, but that doesn't make Kenobi any better. It still is what it is. Well, remember, a lot of people would accuse us of being like, oh, so the prequels are better now because the sequels are so bad. And it's like, I think we've been pretty consistent on how we feel about the prequels. Prequels are bad, but I kind of like parts of them. And I appreciate that they exist, but they're bad. When we have good and bad to represent the two halves of the scale almost is like an umbrella terms or parasol terms, maybe I should say. I think that we just need to be a little bit more specific, right? We're just like, it's like, it's like three out of 10 bad while the sequels are like two out of 10 bad. Which is only one number. True. It's a big one number that is what a number that is. How many discussions have we had on the differences between a two and a three? I can't say it's been... We have people being like, why do they write everything like a three? And it's like, we have not, but it does come up a lot. A lot of threes and to be made, we have noticed. It just so happens that people like to make three out of 10s. And people like to clap at three out of 10s. So three out of 10s persist. I'm sure we'd much rather be discussing if this is a, is this a five or a six or a seven? And we could kind of talk about, no, we always talk about, is this a two, three or four? Yeah, sometimes we're really happy to announce that we've watched something that survived. But I don't know if that's in the video, but it doesn't, Mike, like, call it a guilty pleasure at the end. So he, yeah, if I guess it's, most of this would be included in this video, but the participants, you got Jay thinks it's bad, not this Jay, the other Jay, Jay Bowman. He's going as far as saying bad. Mike is going as far as saying, yeah, bad. You're confused, that is me. No, no, you're gonna confuse everyone, Jay. I am saying this is bad. Well, that's, you're saying it's worse than that, right? Jay is wearing a suit made of a type of pre-hensile rubber, much like they do in Hologram Man. So anyway, Bowman says that can it be bad? Mike says, can it be bad, but really enjoyable? And then Rich says, no, can it be okay? Can it be okay? Super okay, even. Super okay, yeah, so. And we get a different statements made throughout and around this. So we'll see what they are. Don't want can it be so. I enjoy the show. Okay. And it might be, you might be right. The bar is very low right now. It's very low. I was curious to watch this just because, like, I like you and McGregor as Obi-Wan, and he's the best thing about those prequels. What do you think about that? What is the best thing? The best thing about the prequels. We've, I think we've said. I feel like there were a lot of actors that you could name those being more. Well, so the Emperor is a pretty good thing about the prequels. He's pretty strong throughout. I guess I would just say, I think that Obi-Wan's one of the best parts of the prequels. I think it's a fair choice. I'm trying to think. I remember them, as a character, I remember the most and I've seen them in forever. So I probably would agree with that, just by that definition or that context for myself. I think the only real competition he might have is Palpatine. Good old Palpy. Good old Palpatine, but there's not a lot of competitors. Oh, Dexter Jester. Yeah. Of course. Of course, Dexter Jester. We're not going to say that Christensen is also pretty good. I think he's fine. I think he's fine. The problem with the prequels is that you can't tell a lot of the times if it's just a weird bad acting job or if Lucas just wanted them to do his bizarre alien speech. I'll happily, when I see Hayden Christensen pop up, I'm like, yay, but if you will try and remove your own personal flisms there, I'd be like, he's fine. While Ewan McGregor, I think, is not only a fantastic actor, but a lot of that shines through with his performance in the prequels. A lot of lines that he delivers are given more emotion and sort of character context than they would have been with a shitty actor, I believe. Same for the emperor. Yeah, yeah, between Obi-Wan and the emperor, I think are kind of the top two, I'd say. Because some people are saying Dooku. It's like, maybe he's just in it for like five minutes. It's kind of hard to say. Child love affair. Oh yeah, Dooku's, I like Dooku a lot. He's pretty damn cool. So yeah, I guess the point I'm pausing here was just to say, I think that's a fair choice from Jay. This is gonna get complicated as we progress, isn't it? Colin was last name, whatever it is. Bauman, it sounds like I'm saying something weird when I do that. It sounds like a German surname, actually. Bauman. Bauman. Bauman, Achman, Bauman. He's the Bauman. Bauman, which you've heard of me already. Wow. Wow. Oh, nine. Oh, nine. Oh, nine's if Bauman is talking about Kenobi. Kenobi. But all right, let's see what they say in response. He's the most boring character. I'm not talking about characters. I'm talking about him as an actor. He's not the most boring character. He is a good actor playing a very boring character. So that is an incredibly hot take. Yeah. I've heard the prequels be cold boring. I don't know how many times I've ever heard people say, Obi-Wan Kenobi is a character is boring. I have never heard that before. I was very surprised when I heard that while I was watching the video, I was like, okay, that's a new one. This is why a lot of people said they couldn't make it five minutes in this video because the takes were so bizarre without... It's one thing to have this perspective. It's another to not realize that this is the kind of thing you need to explain a little bit if you're going to say it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, people do not believe this. I think you'll find generally that a lot of people think Obi-Wan is one of the most interesting characters in the series. Yes. With, I think, good reason. I think so. He's an interesting guy. So yeah, maybe we should go over it a little bit just to try and flesh out an argument instead of just saying no you sort of thing. So who is Obi-Wan Kenobi? It seems to me he's almost an archetypal paragon Jedi. He's like, he believes as a person that the Jedi are good natured and protect the innocent and the weak from the evil and help people where he can and do his best, try hard and be courageous. Like he's got all those attributes whilst having been given the responsibility of training what's supposed to be the guy who's going to save the world and that all starts to fall apart gradually as the different adventures of them are going worse and worse. Meanwhile, trying to subvert the plans that are going to destroy the Jedi and have to face the fact that the guy he trained turned out to be one of the worst pieces of shit in the universe. Like that's like his journey overall. Being given an opportunity to set into motion events that will make things right by sending Luke on his journey to become a Jedi. And yeah, so because some people are like, well, archetypes boring, whatever. And it's like, well, the whole point is that he has to remain that committed to his position, despite everything going wrong, basically. And it's it ain't easy for him. And he still manages to maintain some level of light-heartedness, but it's fair to say he's broken by the end of the trilogy. Which is why this season had a shit ton of potential. Because what does that look like with a guy who's pretty damn confident? And when you look at the beginning of Revenge of the Sith, he's super overconfident in a fun way. Him and Anakin have developed that kind of relationship. They are the two Jedi that can deal with mostly everything at this point. Stuff like that. And then yeah, I would be curious to conclude that he's got like no elements of interest to him when a lot of the memes focus around him. And that's not to say that just because you have a meme made about you, that makes you an interesting character. But think of the memes are often about the delivery of lines. And kind of whatever this bit of it. But him saying hello there the way that he does, it makes, it gives you an impression of, man, this guy. Because I think one of our criticisms is what a fucking insane decision it was to jump down to Grievous in front of his entire droid army. And look how confident he is. It's just like, I mean, I guess it'll give you characteristics when you do stuff like that. Sure, definitely a characteristic. Not something I'd do. So I don't know, somehow saying the prequels are boring to me is a lot less controversial than saying this character in particular is boring. Yeah. No, no, definitely boring things you could pull out of the prequels, but obviously Obi-Wan is not really on that list. Like maybe you could find some scenes where that are just not, like he could be interested in that particularly. But well, yeah. And then I guess the, we need the boilerplate clothes and everything. We need the boilerplate thing of just like, but by the way, boring, pretty much down to the person. If you find him boring, I guess you do. Yeah, yeah. What one finds boring? One else could just say, well, I didn't find him boring. So that's the end of the conversation. Oh God, I actually think I agree. In the prequels, Obi-Wan's pretty bland character. When you're not looking at with rose-tinted glasses, what does he do? How is he even active in the plot? So he's the most active, I think, out of all the characters. He's the ones that he goes on all the important missions. It was even said without coverage that like, maybe it should have been him and Anakin, not just him. Cause he goes on investigations. Is he even active in the plot? He's, I don't know, like talking about rose-tinted glasses. You need to remember what happens in these films. He killed General Grievous to bring about the end to the Clone Wars. Yeah, he was the one who ends the Clone Wars. Check this out. He's the one that discovers the Clones. Yeah. So like saying, like, what does he even do? To me, it's just like, oh boy, you don't want to make that argument. That's true. What? Oh, wait, no, he didn't. He kills Darth Maul. No, he didn't. He chopped him in half. Oh yeah, that's right. He chopped him in half and then he fell into the bottomist pit. Let's just say he defeated Darth Maul. No, he did kill Darth Maul. He does, he does eventually kill Darth Maul. But yeah. And Rebels. Okay, he has spoilers for people who care about Rebels. And it's always said that then that was boring. It's like, I don't know. I can't really like, you know, if one person finds his fight with Grievous or his investigations boring versus not boring, what can you do? I mean, that's, that wasn't what the point was. The point was he is active in the plot. Whether you think that's boring, whatever. But someone said he wasn't active in the plot. He very much is. Definitely. He might be the most active in the plot. I think of all the characters as the most active in the plot besides maybe Palpatine. Yeah, that's what I think. I think so. The first one maybe. Yeah. He's as active in the first one. Well, it's just one of the big complaints of Attack of the Clones is he's off actually going on an adventure without Anakin. He really... When he's sitting in the field talking about how authoritarian government is. Yeah. Anakin is on what I would probably consider the more boring a part where him and Padme are sharing very stilted dialogue to build up their relationship. You're also adding, I mean, when you say Obi-Wan is boring, surely we are considering the totality of this character which includes in the OT. Is anybody really gonna say that about Obi-Wan over the course of the entire series? Well, and that's the thing. For me, the prequels added a nice little chunk of context that I think actually slides into what we know about Obi-Wan from the OT. Certainly a new hope in terms of he's a bit more of a sneaky boy. And it seems like it's maybe a result of the fact that he's had everything taken from him by a lot of subversive elements. So, you know, he's... Because me and Frie actually did talk about this I think yesterday, but it's like when you think about how he's the linchpin for basically everything happening in the original trilogy. Yeah, being it. Story very much set into motion the way that it is because of him. Yeah, so I don't know. Could it be argued that most of what he did in the original and the prequel trilogy was... If it wasn't him, someone else would have just gone in his place and done vaguely the same things. I don't even know why that would be a relevant argument. He did that. He did, yeah. And who knows if they would have done them in the same way as the characters. Well, yeah, I remember it's his connection unironically to Dexter Jatsta that benefits him. It's his pursuit of knowledge in the archives is him talking to Yoda to get information. These are all decisions he makes. Yeah, and how many people could actually beat Grievous, you know, and stuff like that. I mean, if you replaced him with a different character, then I guess things would go differently. Yeah, like... That's true. It's like, well, yeah. I guess my... You'd have to replace him with someone who's usually grievous. It's a democracy. I understand the argument with him. I would understand if someone argued that he's not active in the plot when he defeats Grievous, because he is told to go and beat... to go and fight Grievous, and he does, right? He's not... It's not his decision-making that's particularly active there. It's his proficiency with combat. I don't know. This feels like the active and passive conversation, really, like of who's really making the choices. He did these things. He went and did them. Like, being told to do something is different from being forced by the story or other characters. Yeah, and I think there's a significant difference between the idea of go to Yuzupau and kill General Grievous, and then everything we see, because he decides how to do all of that. It's how is a lot more important than... in terms of telling us who a character is, then simply what happens, how, why. And I think, yeah, you really would have to argue... Obi-Wan's supposed to be one of the best swordsmen, like, Jedi out of everybody at that point. I'm not sure you can replace it. Like, Anakin might be able to defeat Grievous, probably, but I don't know anyone else can. Maybe Yoda with the Force, maybe Mace Windu, but at that point, we were only picking literally the most powerful people. Well, Yoda's truly would be able to annihilate Grievous with the Force a lot more easily than you would by besting him with a lightsaber. That's what I said. Well, yes. Yeah, I mean, it's... Yeah, they probably should have used the Force more in that fight. Yeah, we've... The first time he does use the Force on Grievous in that fight is really good. Like, so it's just like, maybe he should use that more. It's the cool aspect of General Grievous is he's really good at using lightsabers. He's got a lot of them, but he has no connection to the Force at all. That's a really interesting foe to have someone go up against. And I don't... I don't think I would say that they fully achieved what they could have done... Any potential for Grievous, yeah. Well, I mean, a few years ago it would have been like, yeah, General Grievous show would be cool. I don't want any more. I don't want anything more. I want it to die. Let it die. I want to weld the sarcophagus shut and bury it in a tube. Yeah, weld the sarcophagus, breast, sweet prince, you're safe now. Well, I mean, because... While we're behind... Was it like a Star Wars... What con or announcement or get-together or whatever? Was it that it was talking about like Marvel and... And Star Wars' next stuff? What, the Star Wars... Oh, was it Star Wars? Wait. Well, because Disney does a thing called D23 where they talk about like everything that they're working on, which generally includes like... Well, on the note of wanting to end. Geez. All right, OK. Yeah, that would have been the Star Wars celebration, I think. Yeah, it looks about like that. Yeah, I think I was talking about it on real BBC and I was like, OK, so... Andor, Mandalorian, season three, maybe Ahsoka, Gallatin' Crew. Hmm. Well, like... You'll guess the movie from Tika. Oh, well, they said that one's next. So I guess... Oh, wait. A droid story. Yeah, right, OK. OK, we're going to be an animated thing. Look through this. It's like that Star Wars eclipse, wasn't that game? That game was announced. They're like, yeah, it's probably going to be out by like 2026. I think it was. Everybody totally mixed that up. That that thing is I don't be Ubisoft projects. OK, Rogue Squadron's probably not coming out. I would be surprised at this stage. Lando's is Lando or is that OK? Are they making a Lando thing? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's with the Don Glovers. TBD. Yeah. Great. Awesome. Skeleton Crew is the one that I'm interested in. Because it's John War. I wish Star Wars had a Skeleton Crew. Well, it does. Right there. Oh, yeah, there it is right there. Oh, yeah. Look at that. So, yeah, plenty to get excited about. Content. Big ol' content slurry. Well, I love content. Why are you struggling to say? Yeah, listen, you could have just ignored it and just let me. Well, none of that came through Discord. We probably came through through the stream, but that's OK. Anyway, what did you say about us? No, it was a big old banging sound. But it's fine. Good actor playing a very boring character. Right. But he was brilliant casting as Obi-Wan. Right. And so a show now that isn't the prequels that's bringing you and McGregor back. I was like, OK, I'm going to. Hey, for the people in chat who agree that he's boring. Do you like what they did with him in this show? He's not boring anymore, huh? No. He's doing plenty of shit with him now. Yeah, he's he is terrible. Missile. Excitingly terrible. Little pause here kind of. That's a good facial expression to represent him as a whole in this show. Yeah, that's us. Yeah. No. No. Kind of give this a fair shot. And then I watched half of the first episode. I was like, nah, the first shot me. So that's really interesting, because I think the first half of the first episode, we were like, hmm. Yeah, it was the most here. It was like it was the parallels between this and Moon Knight where we watched that first episode and we're like, it's not good. But there's there's some there's some stuff here. And I'm interested to see what they do with it. And I think all of our compliments for the show would have been in the first half of the first episode, right? Yeah, because we hit that point where the plot starts and it's all just. Oh, God, it's all just flim flam after that. Absolutely. It is flim flam after that. It was written by a flim flam man. We got our five minutes of character sort of stuff. And now it's it's all gone. Made me laugh. And this turned into a Twitter kerfuffle, right? Because the first shot is the serene pulls out all the little Jedi kids are training, they got their dumb helmets on and then the storm. So I actually saw a comment about this. I thought it was really interesting. One of the common complaints from RLM that I think is really on point is that some of the stuff in the prequels that can do some retroactive ruining in terms of just misunderstanding why a thing is a thing. The prime example of this is Obi-Wan wasn't wearing what he was wearing in Tatooine because they're Jedi clothes. He was wearing them because they're suitable for the environment. But they became Jedi clothes because he was like the iconic representation of what a Jedi is and wears. So when you see them all wearing like the same outfit and in the prequels, it's like, oh, man, that wasn't the point of that. And now it makes people question, wait, why would Obi-Wan dress as a Jedi when in hiding? It's like, that's a good question. Why would he do that? Yeah, not change his hair, maybe. So funnily enough, the same point is then raised. It's like, don't you see they're doing that now, but with the next generation? Why are these kids wearing like some weird variation of the helmets that the helmets, if you remember them, would would put on the kids presumably to simulate like blinding them, right? So that they have to feel the deflect. You know, I'm talking about the scene where they're deflecting the blasters with their lightsabers, where you have to head cannon that they're not actually lightsabers and that they're probably like the lightsabers from Futurama that only hit you. Yeah, because fucking me, how dangerous that scene is if they're all active lightsabers. But, you know, Luke put he gave him. It's funny. He gives another example, right? He puts the little thing on the blast shield on the helmet on Luke and then says, trying to dodge this little training droid thing or feel it. And then that becomes like a full training exercise in the prequels. That's another example. But here is actually an example. Those helmets were meant for like, so to blind the person while simultaneously maybe preventing them from hitting their own head while thinking with the bat. But now they're just wearing them because that's just what younglings wear, question mark. Because why would they be doing it while doing this? And I'm doing Tai Chi. When you see episode four, they don't hit themselves in the head. When you see episode four, you start to think, wait, did they did they do it just so that we understand very easily through the helmet that it was a youngling? Remember the one at Amber? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought that was really funny as a theory, like that they only really kept the hats. So like, that's that's the easy way to identify these younglings because they have a silly little hat. Identify children with my eyes like when they're not wearing a hat. I suppose, like, if you take the hats off, then well, yeah, when they get confused exactly, I don't know. Yeah, I agree. I don't know why. I just thought it was funny that they took that out of it and they were like, they normally wear the imagery. Right. Well, I mean, it's the first thing we know is when we saw him in amber, if you remember. I think me and rags both just go like, oh, my God, look at his hat. He's got his helmet on. They kept his helmet on. The ugly hat. It would have been better if he had the little colorful hat with the propeller on it. Oh, God, that would be great. Yeah. Oh, I know that's a kid. Yeah, I got you. Sorry, that subtle detail. Yeah. But the thing about I noticed about these ones, though, is that they've actually got it so you can see out of them pretty easily even like they built that way. So at this point, they just they're just hats, right? I guess. Oh, yeah. Just fun little youngling hats, I guess. I don't know. Very fun. A lot of people are saying they're meant for the sensory deprivation to focus and it's like, yeah, I don't think these ones are doing that job. They they're semi parasols. They're good for, yeah, if it if it if it was very sunny or rainy, even. You your face is protected like a sun hat that you need to be made out of metal. Oh, maybe this is how the Jedi fly because they have the propeller hat on their heads because the Sith have the spinning lightsabers that can fly. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, you can't lift yourself up with the force until we learn that you can. But you can make that little propeller spin real quick with the force, which then lifts you upwards. It takes a lot of concentration to spin that little propeller, but it takes you places. It takes you places. Sorry, the clone troopers. Yes, right there. I that that is so important to my criticism that I get that right. But they come in and they have this like after effects wiggle transition. Dude, yo, wait, wait, go. Did you see that clone trooper on the left just like randomly shoot up into the ceiling to the left? Wait, no, not for this. Wait, what? Oh, yeah. Jason will slap you down, Rags. You better prepare for it. Yeah, come in and they have this like after effects wiggle transition. Oh, yeah. So this is actually this, I'm going to say, I think this is actually good. Yeah, and I think I agree. If you are watching it, if you watch close, just as he pushes his gun wildly to the side, the Jedi puts a hand out and like she's using the force to push away. It's going to say, oh, OK, wiggle transition. Yeah, it lines up. OK, good. OK, I got you. Very neat. Well, she had to. He missed every other shot. Yeah, it's arguably more dangerous because if the clone is aiming at the ceiling, she's in more danger with how terrible their aim is. Yeah, yeah. If you use the ceiling, you might hit it. Yeah, I would just like knocked him over or pulled the gun. I don't know. I guess it's one of those things that if you're a Jedi in that situation and you have the presence of mind to sort of kind of push his arm a little bit and use the force specifically for that, I'm like, man, shouldn't I like knocked him over or pulled the gun away? She's got the precision, but not the power. Maybe that's something that I've always thought should be elaborated on more with the force and how it is used is like, what are the challenging aspects? Can you have like power without precision where you could just like eat everything like in a vague direction? But you can't, you know, you wouldn't be able to do that with the gun. Like, what is easy to learn? Can you have one without the other? Or when you get powerful in the force, do you like get both? It would be a really useful thing to understand, to understand the stakes of the teens and what Jedi were capable of. Might have been good if early on they did something along the lines of like it's to physically manipulate a person is difficult with the force. It's some sort of a living thing and the force is in all living things. So you could you could fuck with their armor or their clothes or their weapons, but to actually like take a person or a living thing and manipulate it. You can't really do, which would add some really, really good limitations to what you can do at any given time in terms of just the fights and stuff. I mean, there are loads of places that you could put this. I mean, like, I'm not sure if like this information would fit that well in the like Yoda training, Luke, but it certainly should have been there in there by the prequels, I think. You could have had a Qui-Gon training Obi-Wan for for combat or something like that. Yeah, this is a scene that probably did need to happen. Dude, I've been waiting for the dude. Just hasn't. Sith training in live action. I want to see that. We never see it in live action. Give us, I want to see that. And I don't want them to be like, being evil is so cool. Let me show you this child. Kill it. They were like, I killed it. Yeah, yes, evil. The jet I tell you to repress these things, but they're a natural part of you. They want to keep you from true potential that's locked inside. But you have to, you know, but being angry can make you do stupid things. But you so you have to learn how to control your anger. But at the same time, like, unleash it. Old manner, you need to learn to act rationally while angry. Yes, it needs to be like a motivation that empowers you. Not something that you're a slave to it. Need you need to be you need to be able to use it. I wonder if, like, taking lots of coke would help you channel the dark side? I maybe. Maybe. You mean, like, like Pepsi or? Yeah, like, sodas are not Pepsi, though. It is too sweet. Pepsi is a Jedi drink. I mean, I kind of just had a thought about imagine you and I rags were those two clone troopers. We were told to go and kill the Jedi. I feel like we should, especially if they have no idea what's going on, maybe. First of all, grenade, probably, I don't know, because it's just like, oh, that's not that's not even what I thought you're going to go a different route. Well, so I got there's a couple of thoughts I'm having. I would want us to sit down and talk about this first because this is this is going to be tough to say the least. It's a fucking Jedi. There's like, can we snipe them is my first question, because I don't want to get anywhere near a fucking force using lightsaber wielding crazy person who is protecting children. That's going to that's going to end with our heads coming off, I think. So no, I hope we get stabbed in the chest, honestly. We'll be fine. Preferably only one of my stomachs. But yeah, like because if you said to be like, well, no, we'll just open the doors and run in while shooting and hope. I just feel like I don't know about that. That seems like a bad plan. And maybe we can take more than two guys because I don't know if two guys enough. I thought what you were going to say was if those clone troopers were us, we just opened the door calmly. Our guns aren't even up. And we say, you know, you know, Jedi Knight. So here's the problem with that happening. We're yeah, I was going to say that's a potential, but that's only present as a potential because of how stupid this scene is. They should already be aware of the temples under attack. Yeah, that that is true. Yeah, obviously, like the alarm should have been tripped ages ago. You should hear it. This is not you. Yeah, you're not going to get all the way to the back and realize, oh, there's but they've been fighting for potentially what could be hours now. And yeah, as soon as they get outside, the temple is in fucking chaos. Yeah, it's like a whole war. And it's just like, oh, man, there's a war. Shit. Oops. So yeah, if if we that's an interesting idea, actually, as an approach for order 66, it's like get get all the clone troopers in there as a as a guys of like, you need to be protected. There's apparently an attack coming on the Jedi temple. And then, you know, all at once betray, especially if Anakin's there and they don't know he's an evil man yet. Oh, yeah, of course. Someone in China said she should have felt it. It's like, yeah, at least one Jedi is dead at this point, right, from the assault. And she would feel that. She probably should have just had it like a really shit Jedi. Well, yeah, we talked about that. I'm saying that the feeling argument isn't on top of the heroine. There's a lot of ways that the scene could be better because it's a really bad scene that doesn't make sense in a variety of ways. Yeah. And one of the the most dark things as Jay is pointing out here, Bowman, is that the the camera shakes hilarious. It looks like something was done is hilarious, either in post or with literally the guy standing there and taking it off the stand and just wobbling it while it was on a stand. It looks so artificial. It does look very artificial, yes. Bad. And it made me laugh. So I posted on Twitter is like, this is funny. And then I got swarmed by people with stormtroopers as their avatar on Twitter. Literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of Star Wars. Man, for you. Star Wars simp accounts came after me to tell me I'm an idiot because I didn't they didn't think I understood. There was fancy weird things. Man, any of us I also had. Yeah, any of us had any experience with that? Like an army of people telling one of us that our opinions a big poo poo. Jay. Oh, what? Jay, Jay forgot that in 1977, some random dude bumped his head on a set, which means that now Star Wars can never have a tone that isn't silliness. Yeah. After I saw that to see how many quotes I'm up to. I was like, Jay, how did you forget that that had happened? And you hope how embarrassing. I think one of the best things about that moment is that a lot of people who watched the film would have been like, wait, what, when did that happen? And it's like, yeah, look in the back of the scene, you can see it. And you're like, oh, wow. And they compare that to stuff like the trench coat walk, which is one of the most overtly stated and needed plot points at the moment of the show. Like, oh, yes, these are the same level. Are you looking, Jay? Is it taking you long? Yes, you're scrolling through your millions of attacks on people online. That's why it's taken. I am. I've got 1,057 quote tweets. Nice. It's actually you see what you just it's actually really OK and amazing. And it's a wonderful scene. And how dare you criticize Star Wars for doing something that makes everyone involved look like a fucking moron. I just wish we were happily in a culture where everyone could have just gone. Yeah, it was dumb. No, is it? Yeah, I could have been it. I feel like it should have been it. Feels like that's the world we could have gotten at some point, but apparently not. Like, oh, that's kind of silly. All right, anyway, there are some people who don't think that that scene is a complete joke or that it's OK that it's a joke. Yes, some people say it's a joke on purpose, which is another weird one. You're just like, OK, I'm getting pranked by Star Wars for years now. The placement for a joke, perfect placement for a joke is, hey, you know, that scene we're shooting that, you know, right in between the child attempted child torture and like the big fight scene between Obi-Wan and Riva and like, you know, when when he's trying to smuggle her out, I think that scene should be tense. No, sorry. I mean, a joke. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, I misspoke before one. No, yeah, that should be we should make a joke out of that scene about how stupid it is. Don't forget the child grave that we walk past on display. That was a deep moment, too. A comedy. What? Yeah, I was like, no, the execution of the shot is bad. The cameraman got scared. It's terrible. He after effect. Bloody, though, he added the plug in, he got scared. Obi-Wan is a great mentor. So I left this in for a reason. I think we mentioned it when talking about it in, I think our first episode coverage, but like, man, this was stanky to me, this this this normal, almost generic trailer editing of the prequel events. Yeah, it was the music that really got me to go, wait a second. This. Yeah, it's super generic trailer music that they put over the prequels, which are known for their amazing soundtrack. So really strange. OK, yeah, really odd that you wouldn't, especially considering, like, tactically, if you're trying to get people to go, remember the prequels, remember the prequels, remember the prequels. You wouldn't use the music of the prequels to do that. You'd think that you'd really want to play that up. And it feels like it feels like a tribute that they could have just pulled off someone's YouTube channel. Oh, definitely. Well, they made them when it didn't even it didn't even have that much relevance to the events of the actual show. It was just like, hey, here's the prequels. Like I remember seeing it was like a special feature on one of the DVDs of something, but it created like a feature at special. I think it could have been something to do with a new hope, basically. But it was like a summary of the first three films, but it did have the prequels. It did have a track from the prequels in it. And it's just like, I don't know why you wouldn't do that. But you go right ahead. And yeah, it just creates this awkward, like it feels so fucking weird to have those three movies crunched into like a very generic TV previously on. And you're right, there probably is ones on YouTube that are better. Wise as Master Yoda. And as powerful as Master Windup. I got to say, just talking about the opening in general, though, their their slick editing actually made the prequels seem a little bit meaningful and exciting. Don't understand editing. I don't understand. You can call that slick editing. They just cut. I was about to ask if he I was about to ask if he was being like joking when he said slick editing was like, I don't think he is joking. Because I guess you could say, in a sense, all editing is a more complicated version of just saying a cut. But like what I'm trying to say is they are just hard cuts between parts of the prequels. Like I don't understand why that would be considered slick as opposed to like putting lots of work into maybe recontextualize or even use things that can summarize things fast. And so I don't know. I'd love to know what he meant by slick, I guess. Because if it's just quick cuts, it's like, hmm, right? Previously, remember this? Yeah, they edited this shit out of those boring ass movies. Oh, sure. I was like, this is a cheap TV show. It's we thought it was like that. I get entertained by them, but other people find them boring. That's fine. Oh, and I like when TV shows are cheap. It's it's a cheap. Twenty five million an episode. Is that what you said, Mahler? So yeah, I guess we should probably just let that that was a really weird call. Let's play that again. That's movies. Oh, sure. I was like, this is a cheap TV show. And I like when TV shows are cheap. It's it's a cheap show is very expensive. It's a yeah. So twenty five mil per episode as far as I'm aware, you can get her. It's about as expensive as a TV show gets. I don't even know. I don't know about any other show. It's twenty five million. That might actually be like the highest budget. Television. How do you make twenty five million look like an episode? What it looks like? I don't understand. And then it's like, but I like that. You're like, what are you? What? What? I that's an odd. It's weird. I don't understand. Yeah, so this is it doesn't compute with me so much. So I'm just like, please say more things because I don't know what to grasp on. Like, yeah, how did you turn that into a good thing that they're terrible with their money? I did a lot in their videos like, oh, you said those things. OK, what do you mean? Oh, on the next thing. OK. Damn it. Movie. Yeah, it's a relatively expensive TV show because there was a movie. But it like twenty five million six episodes. That's a hundred and fifty million. That would be expensive for a big movie. Yeah, that's an expensive movie. And it probably would line up to, I don't know, the total runtime cutting out previous and stuff right now. It ain't that high, really. That's because these are 40 minute episodes. Some of them are not like to impact with things happening. Some of them are like over 40 minutes. But I think episode four was less than 40 minutes. Because even the rough time of like an average network TV. Yes, someone or someone with a bit of talent with editing software could turn this into a movie pretty easily, couldn't they? Probably. Impressive visually. Yeah, there's other parts that look so cheap, especially any of the action, which is so awkward. I see that isn't cheapness. It's incompetence. Yeah. I was I was talking to Mahler before we started and we were kind of discussing a little bit of kind of stuff. And I said, there's nothing. What about the budget means that you have to have someone waddling behind a girl to pretend like you can't catch her? What what part of the budget means you have to do that? Because I think we were saying earlier, just don't assume that money would buy competence in choreography, at least. Would you? Yeah. Well, well, I think it was a scripted that they. Like. This chasing just cut it. You don't need to have it. It doesn't need to exist. But I guess they had to fill time so they had to make this goofy running sequence where she slides like an apex legend character under a twig. And these adults can't chase them because they have some waddling disorder. Well, and so I guess this is the reality of the logistics of this. They seem to be in a real place. They've got all the cameramen there and ready. And then they like start running. And then the person chasing layer awkwardly waddles. And they don't think to say maybe we should start further back because if I run at full speed, I'm going to catch her easily. So we need to make a bigger gap, I think. And if someone's like, hey, she's running as fast as she can. Like, no, no, no, no, it's fine. It's fine. I think she's doing fine. She's running. I just mean to make this look better and to make me seem like more of a threat to the character that is layer right now to really enhance the fear factor. I need to be able to run with as much space and frosty as I would if I were trying to kidnap a senator's daughter, you understand? Instead of looking like a clown. And then they would that should iron out these problems. Instead of having the chase, maybe they should have instead filled the time with them knocking out a guard and or killing a guard and taking his outfit. And then she sees the guard and she's like, oh, hey, it's a guard for the palace or whatever. And they're like, haha, no, I'm here to kidnap you. And they just put a bag over her head and it cuts or something. Just do anything besides this awkward ass fight or not even fight. It's a fight against logic, but like this chased thing. But fortunately, they were so good in doing that scene. They did it twice. So there you go. Multiple. Yeah, there are multiple awkward layer chasing. Yeah, we just can't. There's other cannot catch her parts that look so cheap, especially any of the action, which is so awkward. I I I'm going to defend this. I think it I think the cheapness serves the action better, just small, more meaningful action scenes. So that are better than cheap. That's the that's it's not connected when you say like two different points. Yeah, that's cheap. We're being cheap in the quality of the vision or a scale. I think he's talking about scale, like it's very. Cheap can often like result in something looking smaller in scale. Like if you're trying to, for example, depict like a massive battle with thousands on each side and you don't you don't have the budget for that. It can absolutely diminish the the seeming scale of the conflict. It's all about creative choices, though, because return of the Jedi would have had a big budget for the time. And yet we still got an intense small scale between Luke and Vader. It's all about decisions. It like when the show comes across as cheap, that's not a good thing. That's what we're talking about. So going to continue, I was just going to say, it's that that's not a good thing. Like when you're watching something and go, this feels like you didn't have money or time or something, especially when you know that they did have money and time. Well, we were saying that about Moon Knight, too, where there was just a lot of it felt really cheap. Yeah, like I think that was. There's scenes in this where you just like they're clearly in a CGI environment and it just doesn't even look anything. Well, it's just becoming a big problem with Marvel stuff. Now, yeah, I don't know where it's real. Well, yeah, well, it's and that wouldn't be as much of a problem if you spend three years like Avatar, two has like three years of like working on visual effects. But Marvel films, like they don't. And so now it's starting to fall apart a little bit in terms of these films looking like real places with real people in them. As far as I don't even know if Avatar will be good or not. I have no clue. But like I can respect that it seems to be a man's vision that he wants to bring to life in Star Wars. It's just a product on an assembly line. Yep, pretty much. Oh, we go to Disney. We've got a couple of people in chat saying you're not letting the finish. So we've got new people here today and that's wonderful. Hi, welcome. Well, it's the format to both either it's new people or we're covering somebody that hasn't been covered before. Oh, yeah, it's just we've done that. But that wasn't live. So I feel like we're much more likely to get new people in today, which is OK. All right. We're not going to let them finish ever. We're going to stop the video right now and then we're going to invent a bunch of points they didn't make because that's how evil we are. Welcome to the show. So you you can have a sentence that has more than like one clause in it and you have different thoughts. Oh, yeah, there's so much to say because structure of. Yeah, fun enough. I actually think that what Rich said was almost not addressing what Jay said, but not but not like maliciously in any way. I think he just because he interpreted what he was saying differently. It would be like if I was I got the happy meal and I was like, oh, man, this this this ain't looking. This looks kind of cheap. And I think a reasonable person might assume like if I said that in that context, you'd be like, you're saying like it looks bad or like poorly made or whatever. And then if Rags was there and you just went, yeah, I prefer a smaller portion. I might look at him and be like, no, I no, no, no, no, I'm not talking about that. Like Jay is not talking about how he's annoyed at how small scale the fights are as a result of it being cheap. He's saying that it must be cheap because of how poorly executed everything is. But Rich has now said he prefers smaller scale battles, which is what you get when you have less money to spend. It's getting a bit awkward, though, because look, we got Geonosis up here. It's like, you don't have to compare it to. You know, you know, like, it's like, yeah, this is better than that prequel shit. You don't have to like, yeah, defend against the prequels, you know, like it could you could just talk about it as its own thing. Yeah. Also, I prefer the battle of Geonosis to the fight between Darth Vader and Obi-Wan and this show. Easily, it's not even close. There are a few fights, but I good. Well, you know what? Now I would advocate that we let the point come in complete because people might not realize that is the point Rich is making. So we'll let him make it. Yes, I I'm going to defend this. I think it I think the cheapness serves the action better. Just small, more meaningful action scenes are better than 80,000 stormtroopers and CGI running around, getting blown up and just just three quick shots and no, they showed this. No, that's better. That's the joy scene. Yeah, we got to make this clear. They are citing when she slapped a stormtrooper in the face to defeat him as a better, like a better alternative to the fight on Geonosis. For those who don't know, that's on dog bites. I have that. That's what I used for the for my thumbnail. Talking about episode four. That's what one out for me as the dumbest thing that the most ridiculous thing that I could show in a thumbnail is just her like slapping the storm. Calling it a slap, even is like a kind of over stating it. It's like, I'm going to touch you with my open palm and I'm going to turn around. Like I said in the video, you got to subscribe to dog bites. The props to these actors, they need to get Academy Awards. All of the extras and stormtrooper gear need to get Academy Fucking Awards for acting as if they've been horrifically incapacitated by someone touching their armor with their hand like that. I can't use my limbs anymore. I'm so confused. I'm stunned. It's just a video game and I got bad RNG. Forget those that some troopers are supposed to be incompetent in 19. Oh, yeah. That's good. Yeah, that's right. He bumped his head on the wall. Yeah, that guy. Yeah. This point doesn't feel like on sequitur because the point that was raised was the show feels cheap. And then the point was I prefer meaningful, small scale conflict to essentially if you were going hyper, good faith, big battles that don't really have anything in terms of characters grounding you to the sequence. Like that's a fair point, but I then you'd have to explain how carrying apples like oranges, I feel like it's why are we a massive battle sequence with thousands of nameless troopers on either side and using that to compare it to a purposefully intimate fight between two characters to have a personal history with one another. A more stacked comparison would be do you think that the battle between Darth Vader and Obi-Wan here is more meaningful than the battle between the two of them in revenge of the Sith, more meaningful rather than resounding no revenge of the Sith easily runs away with it. I would just like to show the people who have not seen the show the context for what what action scene he is talking about. Right. And I'm going to show them in the form of the mini that has yet to release. I'll just show this. Oh, it's showing. I can use the lure real quick. Let them know the glory of Star Wars action sequences. It's really something special. They worked hard on this. You know, twenty two. Yeah, I'll roll it back to like twenty two. Yeah. So just the quick context. This will be up on Mula tomorrow. Don't don't you worry, folks. So the context is Obi-Wan's friend. Tala, Tala. Is that it? Well, it's something it's a a a la. But there's a letter before the a la. I actually can't remember what it is. She is posing as an enemy captain. And she she is held by two storm troopers and she's got to get out of there. All right. So this is this is what she does. What? How the fuck did that happen? Well, you know, well, so she should she's done. What? What? Oh, man, this is why did you throw it? There was a third person in that room. So there you go. Sense him to horny jail. That that got referenced positively. Uh, well, man, I don't know what to say. Uh, you know, like, because, funnily enough, on the point of, you know, do you prefer the smaller scale or grander scale fights? I just like, oh, well, I like them both. I just want them both done well, of course. Like, I don't I don't have an issue with seeing two armies clashing versus two people. I love it. Yeah. Like, it's the story about which of those. Exactly. Yeah. That was the best take. Or at least I decided if they love they really love Taylor beating those two or Tala beating those two stormtroopers. I think so. Chassis, pretty happy about it. Again, you know, it's really great. It's really good stuff. I like it because of how believable it is. Full episode tomorrow. You may have heard some dumb shit happens in episode four, and that's just one of the many. And anyway, I running around getting blown up and just just all three quick shot on CGI. Hmm. Don't you don't see you in general? Yeah, like, like he always uses it. Oh, it's CGI. So like it's bad as an idea is like, oh, man, I don't because this was just Balrog and then you can move on. They always struggle with that one. Balrog. Yeah. OK, the Balrog, though, is different. And you're like, yeah, this is good. I will I will bite the bullet that the Balrog was not practical. Would be fucking cool if it were. They it's like a little hilarious if they just tried to build some mechanical thing that had like these flaming carapace that you could set a light and it like clearly moved like a Disney land, a crappy Disneyland puppet. They tried to use respect like, no, I was going to say like something like Ray Harryhausen, but that stuff was kind of cool. So I'm not going to say it. What was it? Practical effects of better cope about it. Like sometimes, sometimes, sometimes, except for the times that they're definitely not. I don't know that a practical Davy Jones would look better than to have Davy Jones looks. I don't think so. You need to. Yeah, I think some of y'all need to go back and watch some old movies where they clearly try to do practical effects that are just beyond their ability to do. And then sometimes it legit looks awful. Sometimes what we see practical Thanos. Oh, yeah, that's a good one. You guys want to see that just like a slightly tall guy with like some purple stuff glued to his chin. Only his chin. What does rocket look like if he's just a little puppet? He's just a oh, oh, remember, Fringy, he was in he was in 101 Dalmatians, the 90s movie. Remember, they had the raccoon puppets when they were tearing apart the car? That's that's him. That's rocket raccoon. It's practical. That's what you look like. Raccoonie. Raccoonie. Raccoonie, yeah. By the way, it's all good. He's an instant practical effects, winning out of a visual effects. OK, so it's all mentioned in chat that apparently the budget I don't know if it's true. It has to check apparently the budget for everything ever all at once was 25 million. I think so. It was a fairly low budget. So the same money that went into that film and all that went into the shot in like a month, too. So what would you rather another one of them or an episode of Kenobi? I would rather have another one. Well, I don't want to color the audience with my poisoning the well here, I don't want to poison the well. But imagine all the alternate universes where I did poison the well and things were just fine. Oh, also, Caesar from Planet of the Apes. Well, yeah, like, are we going to the problem is when you were just talking about Avatar CGI as a tool, just like any other tool that you can use to tell stories. It can be used well and it can be used. And you know, CGI's are like like it's why I like it's why I left when I heard someone saying CGI is just better than practical effects. It's like someone saying, how does it just better than spanners deal with it? OK, all right, well, yeah, because it sucks because the MCU is currently making everyone think CGI is bad. But it's like because because everything's on crunch time. Well, I was out and people go like, oh, hey, because like Avatar 2 looks really cool. It looks damn good. The trailer looks very good. I'm going to go to the theater and see that shit because I just want to be amazed by the issue. I like video games, so it's it's very difficult for me to appreciate the sort of improvements that are made to the technology. Like when you play something, absolutely. Like when you I mean, look, all right, for all of its folks, the last of us two had like really impressive animation. Oh, yeah. They have like legit proper actors and mo cap and stuff like that. We're doing the scenes. That's the dog way to do it, isn't it? I've been doing that for a lot of games for a long because I'm childhood one. They did that. But it's just that the technology keeps improving to where you can read it. Lena Juergens plays Sinua in a Hellblade and it's so damn impressive just to see it come to life. It's so impressive that we should call it live action, right? No, no. Try brah. No. I that is that is the fact. Oh, this should be called something else. It is a literally computer generated animation. It's CGI. It's animated. Animated film. No, no, if you paint an accurate enough painting, it becomes a photograph. Go watch my video, everybody. Oh, yeah, well, it's but like mention that likes people will be shocked by just how much CGI they've seen in films without realizing. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we've been over this before, like how many backgrounds are not actually there? Like, you know, you know, it's there in like effects blockbusters where the thing that you're seeing couldn't possibly have kept being captured in camera. And also that is some of the most ambitious CGI as well. So you can sort of just identify it by the way it looks. However, for a lot of films, there will just be like, like, you know, like, you know what? There's not actually a stark tower. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I would go to something I'd give a there are shows that you watch that are just set in the modern day and a very like they're not speculative fiction where the backgrounds aren't there and they're green screens and they green screen in like New York or they green screen in the countryside. But you don't you don't know because like I think Rocket Jump made a video where they were talking about like, oh, why is visual effects so bad? It's like that's not really it's not really like when visual effects is working really well, you don't really think about it. It's kind of like when you're watching Black Widow and you could tell they're not just in the woods. And yeah, I guess just like that that draws you out of it. When it's just when it's done badly, not that it is, but that it's done badly. I think something James Cameron has talked about in terms of his interest in it is I think he talked about it with a leader. He said, like, if you can bring somebody into the story where like they look at this face and they're not really thinking about that it's a computer, like you might not you know that it's not real, but you kind of buy into it for the for the story. You know, you're not thinking about it all the time. You don't have to fight your brain on it. Yeah. Yeah. Is it also true that I would imagine that a lot more often practical effects force the director to consider how it will be achieved beforehand because it has to be captured in camera. Whereas a poor director will simply film something and then go, oh, the CGI artists will, you know, they'll they'll yeah, without accommodating for how it's going to be used within the shot. Poor studio won't even give them the choice to like it'll be like, well, that over there is going to be something. We don't know what it is yet. It's probably going to be a giant tentacle monster, but it could also be just a guy, but it might actually be a portal. Just look surprised. And it's like, OK, I think you know how they call mechanics like grease monkeys, right? They need to have like a like a pixel monkey, right? Those poor guys who are just slaving away in the CGI rooms, which is making all this stuff happen. There used to be a name for them. Visual effects artists. It's too refined. And now they like they need to be like captured servants or something like prisoners right now is that you know, how like in the Thor trail, you can tell that the helmets like CGI, they didn't even have the helmets they're wearing. Yeah, like it's pretty clearly plopped on. I'm pretty sure the reason why that's the case is because they don't figure out what these things are going to look like before they start filming, although or maybe they have that they decided that they want to change it later on. Captain costume in endgame is CGI. It's not real because they hadn't finalized the design. So there's a lot of this shit happens. Yeah. So like that's and that's case in point, right? CGI is often a and a filmmaker's just sort of tip. Pucks like it's often just relied upon like a rain for decisions. Yeah, for laziness. It's just they use it to accommodate for stuff. Whereas practical effects have to be planned out properly. And you have you generally see the when you're watching a film, you see the results of planning. You see the yeah, we can't just go in action here because that would take like a lot of work for us right now to try and make a practical fight scene here. We just can't do it. We might have to change the story because it's it's an actual limitation of what we're able to accomplish on set. So and this is this to me, the problem is present in a comment from from chat. No, CGI is terrible. It's why so many movies just feel uncanny nowadays. And then you find out later, half the shots, the backgrounds, the props, time of day, et cetera, all CG. So the problem is just badly executed CGI. It's not CGI as a whole. One of the best examples to all of this and then say that one of the best examples of the perfect marriage of like well done CGI, well done practical effects is Lord of the Rings. The amount of CG in those films is insane. But a lot of it isn't necessarily that obvious because of how well it was done in execution. And it wasn't like Peter Jackson was like, feeling lazy today will do CG for this shot. It's like, no, no, he used it where it was needed. And there's a lot of practical effects and Lord of the Rings is insane in terms of equipment and sets and extras and animals. Yeah, and we'll call out bad CGI when we see it, of course. Absolutely. I just think it's been pushed way too far in one direction now and everyone's just like, yeah, fuck CGI. And it's like, guys, CGI creates some of the most amazing things ever. We know this, right? Like, come on. Yeah. Well, you know, like the other day, a guy like he went to like outside my front door and he he just like smashed up my door with a hammer. And the problem with that, right, is that hammers, they're just bad. Spanners are better. I was the problem there. You say that the door just made me think back to our conversation about trying to think of an analogy for the stupid fence thing. For you, you came up with you can't go through the front doors. You just destroy it by going to the back. And then I was like, oh, yeah, with the door. I can't get in the front door and then I that. No, that's not out yet. I'll be out tomorrow. I think I say it's like the door is unlocked. You just decide to destroy it. And then Jay says, no, the door is locked, but there's no walls to your house. And you decide to destroy the door to get in. We're just trying to construct the perfect analogy, right? We get there. We're like, we're like a simple thing to construct an analogy. Then 80,000 stormtroopers and CGI running around getting blown up and just just three quick shots and you kill the five stormtroopers. That's a fun, quick action scene. What was fun about that? Actually, when she slapped the store, it was funny, I guess. I'm funny. Yeah, I would say it was fun. So we've jumped between because it was first meaningful is better. And then it was a fun, quick action scene is the two different things. Yeah. A lot of critics just use the word fun, like as because they don't. Yeah. And the problem with that is that fun is just a bad word. Fun is just a worse word than a bad word. It's very subjective. Fun things. It doesn't tell me much. Kind of the problem. Like I had fun. I didn't, you know, we've we've gotten nowhere. Yeah. Good conversation. See you tomorrow. The only way that I would try to use fun while critiquing like a piece of media would be if it's like, I guess, to just talk about the tone that they're trying to convey, right? You know, as opposed to solemn and serious, not in terms of just like, this is why the scene is good because it's fun. Oh, I thought you I thought you said Solomon serious, not solemn and serious. And I was thinking, who is that? Who's Solomon? It sounds like a comic book character. Doesn't it? Yeah. Like a comic book character. Solomon's serious. I legitimately was trying to think, do I know that character? Is he like a mutant or something? Oh, wait. So we're going to get one person drawing Solomon's serious. And Solomon's serious. So I said, you keep trying to issue the correction in relation to CGI. But the point is CGI correlates highly with crap. Have you ever heard the saying correlation does not equal causation? I haven't been able to use that. It's all it's literally just why this happens, why CGI often ends up in bad stuff looking bad. I bet most bad movies are pure practical. Well, let's just start having fun with the logic and be like, most bad movies lately, they've been way more bad movies, it feels in ratio compared to good ones now than ever. Maybe it's the existence of all the people in this stream who are here right now. That's it. That's what did it. Us being alive is what's caused this to happen. So I don't know. Whoops, we got to hopefully we can fix it. You're right. The Balrog ends this argument. It does. It's just done. It's over. It is a tool to be used for good or evil. Well, someone said, no, they captured a live Balrog. And I'm just like, Oh, man, imagine that Australia. This is Balrogs running around the King calls like someone in chess going to try bringing up CGI crime statistics. You know what? The show is better off for it. Sure. You're approaching it. Not necessarily. So the show is better off for being. Well, but the thing is, I think his point in isolation works, but it doesn't with what was being said, he said, like, when the show is lower budget is forced to have lower scale fights and he enjoys the meaning and funness of them or something. It's like, oh, but that wasn't what Jay was saying. Jay was saying it's crap, like it's incompetent crap likely done because it was cheap criticizing the use of CGI has a problem with the Balrog being CGI. I'm pretty sure you were the person who just said that like CGI correlates with crap. So that's why the Balrog example kind of is like, well, wait a minute, so what are you talking about when it comes to CGI being like inherently bad? Yeah. Like, wait, wait, wait, wait, I can fix this poorly. If all of the Marvel movies were forced to use practical effects where they would want to use CGI, all the films would be so much worse. You have no idea. They would never be able to get it done in time. So everything would be unfinished. Like the movies have to come out at the same date. They would be fucked. You get loads of like really repurposed sort of sets, really awkward shots, loads of unfinished bits and bobs that they just hope you don't notice. CG probably right now is being relied upon in the same way as like like an overstaffed hospital. They're just getting all these customers in straight away to seal them up with with CGI fixes when you need to give time. This is why we're saying about the tool thing. CG and practical effects both need time and space and talent to be able to work properly. You could they need it. Both of them do because they're both tools. There's only so much you can do in an amount of time and the amount of time that's being given to these visual effects studios to make this stuff is not suitable. It's I'm pretty sure it's being widely reported on that. There's just like there is there is a backlog of films that are very visual effects intense, and there are only so many studios that can make them, but they all want to. The points and capitals most CGI is bad bad CGI is worse than bad practical, therefore, unless you're a master go with practical. Well, that's not is that your points or is that RLM's point? That doesn't think it's RLM's point. I don't think so. Yeah, I don't like other reports. Most CGI is bad. I would be curious to see like how you would qualify that bad CGI is worse than bad practicals depends. It would depend. It's always going to depend. Even even if most CGI is bad, even if we accept that, right? That doesn't mean that CGI is bad. It doesn't. It means that there's something because most doesn't describe something inherent to the to the art form. And then that's your master go with practical. What if you're not a master of practical or even competent? This is all assuming that what you said is correct. Do you take yourself for like making a lot of accurate good points? What do you think you are? Correct? It's like, you know, it's like, it's like, let's say. Oh, let's say most I don't know. This might this might well be true. Most pencil life drawings are bad. It might be true, but like the reason for that would potentially be that that's the way that's often used to teach art students. So most people who are making those drawings and novices, right? Like that's not a problem with the art form. That's just a thing. But that's just a product of the world being the way it is and pushing a trend that causes these things to happen. It's it's it's not the same as the art form being bad in and of itself. No one said clearly guessing. Guessing if I've never watched the spy kids movies. I was like, which I was in the theater when that movie released. It's a I was there. Yeah, the argument you're making. I don't even know. I just I just like the idea of thinking about spy kids. If somebody there, George. How many people are going to try and counter this with? Yeah, but are you aware that's bad CGI? Like, I don't know, I'm fifth time. Someone says that we're going to like, oh, shit, I hadn't thought of that. It's I think it's really intuitive right now. Uncomfortable to just make fun of CG as a whole. And we I've pushed back on this a million times on those different streams. And I'll just keep doing it until I get a better argument to deal with. Because as as as was said, you just say Balrog and then it's over. Sure, that's a question. I guess I can't remember if I've asked. I like to ask this to people, but J metal rags free. What is what is better in your humble opinion? The rank or the Balrog in terms of execution of an effect. No, the Balrog Balrog course, it's the Balrog. Jay, to be honest, God, damn it, Jay. How many of them look? Um, yeah, I really like the rank or but I think the Balrog looks great. It does. That's kind of why I'm making the comparison. Good. I think a lot of people think the rank or looks better, but I I would guess that more vote for the Balrog than the. Arcane is not CGI. You know what I like to write an arcane, arcane is why I think you're just you're just not in full action. No, it's live action because it's well, what this is what I mean. It feels like people don't realize that when you say CGI is bad, you're also including like all Pixar or like every 3D animated. That's that's CGI. It's computer generated imagery. 2D animated films that are done on a computer are technically computer generated imagery. I mean, well, to be fair, I don't I'm not trying to be condescending, but CGI does stand for computer generated imagery. It's like some people might not even know that. I guess some people might not know that. They might think it's like a particular subset of something or something. I just really it's just very broad scuba stands for. Yeah, but it's pretty good. And to be honest, I don't know how you could have done that with practical effects. I don't know how you could have. I don't know, you have to do some really you'd have to do some Ray Harryhausen shit. Like we're talking stop motion monsters, maybe or and not all of those look terrible. So we have to capture it. Probably have to capture the fire separately and like yeah. It would come composite it will be incredibly difficult. And I don't know that you'll be able to beat out what the CGI did. I don't know. I don't think so. But maybe the most talented team of like practical effects artists, they could create a Balrog that blows us all away even more so than the CG one. Yeah, and then I matter of how much would it cost you and how long you take, but are you even capable of getting the rest of the film done? Practical stuff, it just has limitations. And sometimes those limitations are just too much. They're too much to overcome for what you want to portray. Well, the limitation would be you look at something like Avatar. Could you achieve the Navi without visual effects? It's like, I guess you can try. You look at this. You could it's one of the benefits of not the way that they are. You'd need you'd need a bunch of people who are nine feet tall. Everybody would need to be nine feet tall. They'll do the hobbit thing, right? Perspective, right? There are ways around it. Yeah, and you also have to deal with the because they have longer limbs. They're not just taller. They're also longer, and then you also perspective for those two. We're going to create a lot of additional things we'd have to do for the in-camera sort of results as opposed to post or even. And also and and or looks a certain way. How do you do like the floating rocks in the sky? Forced perspective strings. That's something I really like about about CGI is. I just if you need to get the strings out of there, you got to like, you know, get rid of them. No, it's very see through thin strings that we don't have to. And they're the same color as the guys. I don't think it necessarily can. I think you can do post like after you do post production. No, I don't I don't I don't know if I don't know if I'm going to let that fly. If we do OK, so Star Wars doesn't have any CGI. Star Wars doesn't have any CGI in it. The computer generated sequence in Star Wars is the wire mesh of the Death Star. They show in the. And I guess I guess it's because all of the ships and everything are real, but then compositing composite wasn't done with computers. It was done with film. Well, now it's done with computers, but back then you're right. Yeah, but you wouldn't need to use CGI to do that. OK, then you'd have to deal with film. Yeah, like I would say what like one thing is one thing I really do appreciate about CGI is that because as you're saying with the Navi, they just have longer limbs, which like if you were if you were working within the limitations of practical effects, I think you would probably just have to scrap that idea. Like I guess that's what I'm saying every Navi is a puppet. But with that's like that's a detail. Yeah, I guess probably. If you are making like just an alien race and you're like, yeah, they're going to be CGI, you have that limitation completely lifted of, OK, these don't have to be like, we don't have to think about how will a human fit in this costume? Because in a TV show, like I think Star Trek actually really clearly shows the limitations of practical effects where basically every alien they introduce has to be a person in a costume. So yeah, you can't really have different proportions easily. You can't think you can't do any of that. Makeup. They have been decided that every effect was going to be CGI and Star Trek. It probably it would look worse in camera, but I think in the universe it would make more sense. You have a lot more diversity of alien like types. Not everyone would be a human. When CGI is done well, that's really in on that really enhances that kind of thing. Exactly. And also, like how do you do because it's here one dozen. There's definitely practical in there. But how how are you going to achieve something like that? How how do you make the two one thousand without visual effects? Because you know, a lot of how practical the Titanic was and when James Cameron did it, I'm sure there are CGI touch ups like it would never build a real Titanic, Mahler. No, they did. They did build a real one. I. Yeah, your joke doesn't work. The Titanic. Yes, it's sunk. Yes, the real Titanic sunk. No, that's what I'm saying that you they did build a Titanic. They built like I know that's the joke is that they did and it sank. I don't know that I don't I mean, it was a tragedy. Obviously, it's not a joke that it sank just to be clear. It was a tragedy. But like the thing I was referring to was that I was presenting it as outlandish that they would build a real Titanic when Titanic, the movie is based off of them building a real ship called the Titanic that had a tragedy. It wasn't as bad as nine eleven, but it was still a real tragedy and a tragic loss of human life. They made a film about it. I don't know that we need to compare every tragedy to nine eleven. This fucking streams a tragedy, but it's not as bad as nine eleven. I just completely didn't understand what the joke is at all. I'm so lost, like that's fine. Enough people did it made it work, but you mentioned nine eleven, which means I get to post this. Jesus, oh, I know this image. Yes. That's if I died at nine eleven. That's how I'd want to be remembered. The Marriott kissing up a complimentary coffee, not even full-sized muffins either. What the fuck is this? Mini muffins with like in remembrance of those we lost on nine eleven, the hotel will provide complimentary coffee and mini muffins from eight forty five to nine fifteen a.m. Sorry, how many panagons have to get planes for us to get regular sized muffins? I'm just imagining someone arriving down there at nine sixteen going on to the nine eleven muffins. Damn it. Yeah. So the point I was trying to make was that despite the fact that they made so many so many efforts with those practical elements of the Titanic sinking in the film, they would, of course, had a whole extra layer of DJI touch ups that would have been super appreciated, like the stuff they maybe missed or things that went wrong when doing all the practical stuff. DJI is cool. He's a neat lad and he helps out when he's needed. Sure can. People abuse the fuck out of him, unfortunately. Yeah. Very perspective. And this is the same with the opening shot for me, where I'm thinking about the execution and how awkward it is. I'm I agree with Rich. It's it's it's a better bridge. Like we all hated Rogue One because it was like Star Wars porn on crack. I guess they did. They did. They did hate Rogue One. They even had to make a clarification video because their audience did not like the coverage of Rogue One. Well, I think one is the best Disney Star Wars thing. Probably. They will in retrospect, I think people are more so fine with it now because a lot of the criticism of Rogue One is reflective. Now I would say of of like Disney's approach with stars being remember this, remember this. But the thing is, like, so to give you an example, because I remember being a little confused back then with with their coverage. If you consider they were like, oh, look, an 8080. Oh, look, an X wing. Oh, look, tie fighters. It's like, well, the rebels in the empire are fighting in this era. They would necessarily be using these items. Like, I don't know that. Yeah, it's member berries to just have the vehicles they would use. It's not a hologram. Darth Maul who uses his lightsaber for no reason at all. No reason other than to remind you that he has a lightsaber and it has two blades on it. And it is very cool. Do not you remember that? But I don't want to, you know, ignore the idea that, yeah, they definitely had moments like that in Rogue One. The best one I think is they bump into the two bar people who Luke ends up, you know, the one that gets his hand chopped off. Like the two main characters in Rogue One bump into those two. And they almost like get into a little scuffle and it's just like, why the fuck did you make this happen? It's like, well, because you know those two. For new hope. Remember those two? You're like, yeah, OK. And they're they're on. I was wondering when we'd say them again. They're on Jakku like an hour before it gets blown up. It's just funny that it's like they must have been heading to the spaceport to head over to boss Isley, I guess. I don't know that you'll be dead guy. Yeah, yeah. Imagine learning that the planet you left from an hour ago got blowed up. Damn. Oh, you fucking tell her fucking hell. Wow, Jesus Christ. And then we're going to blow up. You get your hand chopped off right after that. You're like, no, your whole arm. Oh, right. Yeah, this is a lot. I mean, your art, your hand is included in that. Maybe you would you'd be thankful. You'd be like, oh, thank God, I only lost the arm if I was on that planet. We didn't get vaporized entirely. And I live in the future where we can have robot prosthetics that are as good, probably better than the real thing. In my mind, I would say I would protest those as a separate offense. You know, what if Luke explicitly said to you? No, sorry, Obi-Wan, after doing that explicitly said, I wouldn't have done this had you died on the planet. Just because I survived the explosion of a planet doesn't mean that it's OK. I got my arm chopped off. I follow any day that's true. That's what I put your land down. I would put it was a direct link. What if it was it was that then you can feel this way? Right? Well, like, of course, it's a direct causal link. Because if he didn't like if he died, then, yeah, of course, that wouldn't know he means like in the sense of they got accosted by a random stormtrooper who said, oh, you're the one who got away from Jakku, well, no one gets away from an exploding planet without consequences and then cuts his arm off. That would be like a direct causal link. All right. Sorry. Did I say Jakku? I meant Jedda. You know what? I think I knew that you were wrong, but I just don't care. Is it? It's fine. Fairly enough, though, a lot of people when talking about what they like about Rogue, I think he said Rogue three because I was going to say the third act is what people like about Rogue one, typically. And that was like the part of Red Light Media fucking hated because they considered it all, as they said, Star Wars porn, which is a little fine. How that one's not bad necessarily. Yeah, it's just kind of like, sure, I guess. I don't know. It's kind of a weird take in terms of do you just mean that a lot of the stuff we see? Because do you guys remember this? They intercut footage of the classic X-Wing fighters from A New Hope in this scene. And I remember when I feel I was like, you know what? That feels that feels just about right. And they do it respectfully and quickly to the point where I'm like, that's neat. I like that. It feels like they're respected. It's unused footage, right? I think some of them may be repeated clips. I remember some of the lines, but it could just be alternate takes of the same line. I don't know. But it makes sense that they would be there. And, you know, it's just like, yeah, that to me seemed like a nice way of doing it. But I could totally see someone being like, no, that's just key jangling or something. I'd be like, all right, I guess. I don't know. It can be a little bit complicated. Textualized in the story. Yeah, that's typically how we try and set that out. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it doesn't have a reason to exist in the story. Too much. And then this, like when Obi-Wan's running around the little hallway set and there's like four stormtroopers and they're actual guys in costumes. And he's like, he's like, eh, eh, eh. And then he, and as you see- How is this not member berries then? I guess they say that Obi-Wan, they bring back fucking Darth Vader to fight Obi-Wan. Well, no, stormtroopers and costumes. Remember those? To be fair, I think what he's trying to explain here is that it all feels a lot more like he's watching- Tangible? Something. I was trying to go for a word that... I don't want to say more meaningful because I don't want to put words in his mouth, but he just seems to be more engaged with it when it's practical and small scale is kind of what he seems to be saying. Relatable stakes, I suppose. Intimate, perhaps. Yeah, he seems to be saying like he has much more fun with it when it's just hallways awkwardly doing things and there's people in costumes and that's what's happening instead of grand CGI battles. And then how can it be that it's member berries and all the vehicles we recognize are showing up? Surely that's just, that's something else going on then. I guess I would just say, I hope that we could draw a distinction between small scale but good and small scale and bad. You know, like- Yeah, that's what you think. Not it simply being small scale is what makes it worthwhile. It isn't worthwhile. He's like all, and he's out of time, he's like out of practice, right? That works for what they're doing with this character. It just- He's out of practice, which works for his character. It's like, does that work for his character considering his only goal? No, it doesn't work in the end. And to be fair, he does phenomenally well with his sword in episode four. He struggles to move a little lug nut across a table but he can hold back the ocean. How are we supposed to deal with this? Like, in terms of understatting what the fuck they try to tell us about him? I don't know. He's out of practice, but he's not out of practice at all in any way whatsoever, apparently. And also, yeah, there's- The posture comes flowing back in that episode and I genuinely don't understand what's supposed to have made the difference. Yeah, and I think that the most intuitive we can get with it is that he's under a high pressure situation, but that doesn't work because he's previously been under high pressure situation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice one, Mahler. Yeah. It bridged it better and it made it more feel more like that era than Rogue One, Rogue One. So now this is a different argument and one that I can at least we could talk about is like, does Rogue One or the Kenobi show feel like it fits him with the OT era better? And he's talking about the way it feels as though it was filmed. Like, we're talking late seventies versus obviously a modern production, which feels like it fits him with- Obi-Wan Kenobi is clearly a modern production. The issues with the, well, I think that Rogue One, because like in Rogue One, something that's kind of interesting, it feels like it looks a little bit like when they had all of the ships, that they tried to make them look more like the practical props that they had used in the OT. Fringy, I think I might be able to help out. Because I think what, I think I get what you're saying. I think there are parts of Rogue One that feel like a really good HD upscale of Star Wars. Yeah, like where they're almost trying to capture the feel of the miniatures that they used, like they went out of their way to make them look more like the miniatures. Because if you take some scenes from Rogue One, the ships and the moving around and stuff, if in your head you can imagine them at a lower resolution for a 1977 film and maybe the effects not being quite as good and what would they look like as actual models as opposed to some CGI stuff and touch-ups and things. And you could kind of see it. Like I could see it in my head and I don't think I have to stretch it too far in a lot of these scenarios. Yeah, I think some people in chat are being very critical of Mike's argument here. To defend him a little bit, I think this is actually okay to say. So to give you an example, if let's say Rags said Rogue One and Return of the Jedi are of the same amount of quality to him writing wise. Let's pretend that that was the case for a moment. But he said he prefers Return of the Jedi because it feels it fits way better in what he perceives to be the O.T. story versus Rogue One that feels like a much more modern and stapled on thing. I would be like, yeah, I could see that. I could see how that could be something you feel. Mike feels that about Kenobi. When it, to me, it's almost impossible to see it as anything other than like, oh, this is very modern. It's definitely a modern production. But I guess in terms of the feeling that one fits him better than the other. I always refer to it, but it's such a good example. I don't believe that Han Solo dropped Cthulhu into a black hole. Like I just don't believe that that happened. And that is where you failed. I don't think any of us would ever thought that was ever gonna happen in that movie. I guess what I'm getting at is if someone's like, well, do you think Rogue One is canon? Like it's like, well, like I treat it as canon. Like I don't find that. You know what I mean? It doesn't offend me. And it seems like it sort of fits in without any breaks to my memory. Well, I guess what I would prefer more is the sequels are canon in my head as much as I would prefer for them not to be that way because there's a sense of legitimacy that they have. Because of like the Disney aspect. The thing is the thing about that legitimacy though is that it was bought. Well, sure. But I guess I would say the same thing about like, Terminator Dark Fate is like, oh, you've got like a bit of legitimacy though. Like Genesis, I can easily ignore and pretend it doesn't exist. But like Dark Fate, they got Linda Hamilton back as well. Why does it not count as legitimacy? It does count as legitimacy in a sense, but I feel like when you also bring back it eventually tipped the scales. Well, I'd be willing to agree with you if you're saying, well, there's got Arnie and her in Dark Fate. And that's kind of what I'm getting at. It's got more. And hey, it's got John Connor too. Well, yeah. I guess that's what I'm saying is with Kenobi, I think it's very much teetering on the edge of like, nah, I don't believe this happened. Like when I watched New Hope, I don't believe that this happened. It's teetering and I'm not sure what. I feel like that might just be just suspension of disbelief in a sense. We've said this before, but all of us, when was the last time we watched Rogue One? And for me, we're talking 20 years. It's been a while when it came out. I'm starting to think it might be as late as it is, like 2019, 2018, probably the last time I watched Rogue One if then. I'm trying to think if that was even when I did. So my memory of it is so thin at this point that it could turn out that I fucking hate the movie. I don't actually know anymore because I don't remember all the plot points. I doubt it. To clarify, I'm not saying that anybody needs to treat anything as canon or whatever based on, like you can treat whatever. What I'm talking about is more so like, subconsciously, what do I perceive as being the timeline, I guess, for these stories? And unfortunately, at the end of Return of the Jedi, in my head, I'm like, oh, but you all failed. Like then there is that in my head. Whereas when I watch Han Solo, for whatever reason, I'm not like, oh yeah, you dropped Cthulhu into a black hole. It just doesn't fit in. It doesn't slot in. So bizarre. Yeah. Yeah, and the way I see it is like, so if someone said like, why are you covering all of Disney's Star Wars movies instead of all fan film Star Wars movies that are probably better? And I'd be like, well, we want to cover what's quote unquote, canon. You consider this canon? I'd be like, I don't want it to be canon, but by a meaningful definition of canon, I guess it is. By a meaningful definition of canon, it's all of this is canon. There's kind of no better way to define what is in continuity than how the people who own it define it, even if I don't like. You know what I mean? But someone says like, do you, when you think of the character of Luke Skywalker, did you consider all of what you saw in the sequel trilogy to be like a part of that story? And I'm like, not really. I don't think so. My brain sort of thinks of Luke. I think so too. I'm glad that I'm able to consume proper Star Wars without thinking about the sequels that's kind of ever popping into my mind. Yeah, and I think it's unfortunate that I can just walk it out and I don't think about it. Overtime more or more so they will fade. I think how can you treat somehow Palpatine is back as canon? It's like a car crash. So like, I think those movies are bad. I hope that that to people like, I feel like the point is pretty clear. It's not really about like, you can treat them as non canonical if you want, you'll be better off that way really. What I'm saying is I find it hard to pretend that they aren't like in real in the timeline. For whatever reason, I find it difficult to train. I find it hard to watch Return of the Jedi and see them having their little party with the Ewoks and thinking, man, like, hard solar, you get killed by your son. Luke, you fail spectacularly and they'll live out the rest of your days to the helmet. It's hard not to think about what comes after it. Whereas I just nobody cares about solo, you know, nobody thinks about solo or treats in this canon. Yeah. It will be a lot easier mentally to dismiss the sequels if they had cast a different actors to play all of their returning characters. Oh yeah, totally. Yeah. In the same way, it would also be a lot easier to dismiss it if there was a viable alternative to think about, right? If there was a, because it's probably pretty easy for EU fans to dismiss it. That's going to be why Rings of Power is going to be dismissed so fucking hardcore by all the Tolkien fans. There's nothing that's legitimate about it really. Like, if they get any, you'd think they might get some actors to get in there, but they've recast basically all the roles, right? So, we can't see. And as someone said, Molly, you're complaining there's no good Star Wars content and Disney's ruined everything. And yet there's a giant treasure trove of EU stuff you don't even engage with. I've never said there is no good Star Wars content in the context of everything everyone's made on planet Earth. That's not at all what I'm saying. You just like said that. It was, yeah. I'm talking specifically about what Disney's doing. We focus pretty much entirely on more mainstream examples of like storytelling, that's what EFAP's goal is, but we do venture out here and there. And then as for like consuming more fan-made stuff or EU stuff, just like, yeah, I've just not been that interested in what Star Wars has got in there, but that's the same for like everything. I don't really like, I haven't looked into all the additional Babylon 5 stuff outside of the main show. I haven't looked into that for Lord of the Rings. I haven't read the Silmarillion. Like, not that all of those are the same thing. They just, they, I don't know exactly. I don't know where I draw the line, but I do some way. I'm sure there's loads of great Star Wars stuff, this third party in EU. To be fair, I would say that there's loads of good stuff in Star Wars outside of the OT. Like, yeah, several of the games are pretty damn awesome. So, you know, it's all good. It's all good. It's a real cool world. You can do a lot. And it's, what's happening? It's a shame all that the people in charge make is crap. Something I find kind of interesting is that back, you know, 20 years ago, it seems like Star Wars was much more interested in making lots of video games. Now that video games are way more popular and more accepted in mainstream, Disney doesn't really have that much investment. There's only been like three or four Star Wars games in their tenure. Whereas like, well, the proof was we're coming out. How many games were there? Like 15? 15 million. What have been more than that even? All of the games. Yeah, there's so many games. What is strange? You think that Disney, with all of their pursuit of digging too deeply and too greedily when it comes to this great show. I think Disney, because Disney have like an interactive studio, it's like a little subdivision. I think because I got, they got more inspected for like Epic Mickey, but then they just, it never panned out. So they just gave up on video games, which feels like one of those, it feels odd that... Did you forget how big video games are, Disney? I guess it's because they tried and it didn't really pan out. Whereas Warner Brothers seems to have, well, though I remember there was a rumor that Warner Brothers doesn't want their interactive stuff anymore. They don't want their video game studios. They were looking to sell them like Rocksteady and stuff, so, which is surprising. Maybe that's not true. That was a rumor, so. Sorry, Tanjanova. The late 70s Star Wars were stormtroopers smacking his head on the UD. Stop! Let's get the full context for that, because that is the fucking meme right now and it looks like they are using it too. But that works for what they're doing with this character. It just, it bridged it better and it made it more feel more like that era than Rogue One. Rogue One's like, ah, ah. The late 70s Star Wars were stormtroopers smacking his head on the top of the set. Yeah, and then you were talking about. I don't get the point. He just said the thing. So what Jay Bauman is saying is the Kenobi feels like the way they've made it as a show feels like stuff like that headbunk is possible, where it's a ragtag sort of lower budget experiment where they're trying to make a thing. Meanwhile, Rogue One is like this highly polished, high budget thing that will have no mistakes in it because it's fundamentally made with two different ideas and eras and budgets in mind. He's saying like he likes Kenobi more because it feels more like the production of the OT. Which, I mean, I disagree, but like. I don't agree with that. It definitely feels like a modern production. Yeah. Like when we see what's the name put a hand on the stormtroopers face, that doesn't come across to me as like a bonking head arrow. That's just. That's just like we don't know how to do anything involving characters, just fighting or combat in general. I feel like it's like there are several things we could probably reference in Kenobi that feel like super high budget by comparison. And to be honest with you, most people don't even see that headbunk. Not even kidding. Most people. Most people said, hey, headbunk and Star Wars, they just look at you. It's so odd because it's not like in universe, a stormtrooper could bonk their head. Yeah, of course. Well, I mean, the reason why we know that it can happen is because it happened in real life when they were filming Star Wars. Yeah, that's probably the best. Because they're not some kind of elite fighting squad that, you know, like a droids or whatever where they can count for everything at every moment. They're conscripted like men from different planets and stuff. It's just, it's a guy. He's walking through the doorway, he hits his head a little bit. One example of any soldier ever in all of human history bonk in their head on a door, you can imagine a knight just walking through, I mean, knights, you know, they were like, they were super important in societies. I'm sure a knight once bonk their head on the door. I'm like, oh, pardon me, I'm terribly sorry. Yeah. That is, yeah. The Darth Vader fight with Obi-Wan is being awkward and looking like a fan film. Before watching the show, I saw that clip. That is kind of funny because you know that, what is it, the SC-38 one? Like, because that's a fan film in terms of a fight between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader. Which seems to have more focused choreography compared to what they did in this. Yeah. I guess I would not want that to be the fight that was actually in the film. Like, that's a cool action scene. Like, it's cool fight scene, but that's not what I would want in the film. Yeah. Oh, I don't think you can suit that scene at all tonally, but like, I understand what they were going for. I guess the reason why I'm bringing it up is because like, I feel like that fight scene is more fun to watch than the fight between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader in this show. Well, yeah. And I want to go further that it just, it looked like it took more time and talent to create. Which can go a long way, like watching the different strikes versus watching this awkward sort of slappy thing happening. We were just like, what's going on here? Especially in a production now, and like, you've got actors who are perfectly capable of performing basically anything you want. That's what we ended up with. We know what Ewan McGregor is capable of doing. We've seen it. We've seen it all. But weren't they like super high on just going like, advertising, it's like, look, the training for all these things, to get like epic sort fights. Well, we got one more fight to come, Metal. Maybe that's the intense, quick, amazing one. Okay, okay, okay. It's just that they've been failed. So did they just take the next, some bumps of the street to make the one, the first one between those two then? I don't know what happened with that one. I wonder if they storyboarded it at all. Did they do the prequels? I wouldn't be surprised if they did. But this one, it just, it almost, it's almost like they showed up on set and they, we're gonna have a fight in this quarry. We know that we're gonna have a fight in this quarry, but as for like any specifics, we haven't really figured that out yet. So we'll figure it out now while we're here. That's kind of how it comes across. Looking like a fan. Yes. Before watching stuff. In the show, I saw that clip. It like showed up as recommended on YouTube or something. I legitimately thought it was a fan film. Like that first, where he runs away. Cause I was like, oh, that's a funny punchline. Darth Vader shows up. And he pulls up his lightsaber. It should be a funny punchline when they meet, right? Like a hill? Well, so I, I was about to say, I think he's made a good point that he saw this out of context and he assumed it was a joke scene made by fans. Where if these two have a met again, everyone will be like, oh, fuck and run away. It's like, oh, that's kind of funny. And we found it funny in the episode. But it also was not going for funny. I don't think they were going for funny, no. No. It was so funny to me. The awkward thing is he runs out behind. It's like, they use, it's like, they use the same location. He runs out. It looks like he's running back to be in front of Vader. Yeah, it was very poorly. So that's, I was going to say, we were just outright confused. I thought what it meant was that Vader was flying over and ahead so that he could surprise over. But like, how awkward would that look if you had like the, I don't know, a wide view of the whole quarry? It's the cheapest of it. Vader bouncing around, like trying to keep up with Obi-Wan. Climbs up to things like, shit, shit, they get him. Like, Did you picture Vader like peeking around the pile of sand going, hello, I see you. Yeah. You just went right over there. I could still see your feet. Yeah, it's just, It is. What can you say that hasn't been said? Yeah, it's like the camera does a 180, but it doesn't tell us. And it's in a location where there's no, there's piles of dirt. And so when they swap the camera around to reverse the angle that you're looking at and Obi-Wan appears again, it looks like he just did, like he just came back to where he was. It's very poorly shot. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's pretty bad. It's a floor. You just ran 10 feet over there. I could, I know where you're at. For me, the whole thing is this weird imbalance of things I like and things that are so cheap that they're kind of entertaining and then stuff that's just sort of boring. You can bitch about that encounter, but I like it better than the entire Mustafar battle. No. No. You're lying. You're so wrong. Hey, he can like it. Oh, no. He can like it more. No, he can't. That's okay. It's not possible. It's not possible. The thing is, It can't be true. It comes across really weird for us because like that fight was so hilariously bad in like every possible element we could address in terms of production. This is revenge of the Sith, which I think our biggest criticism for the revenge of the Sith scene in totality is the dialogue. We weren't a fan of how overt and plunky it is. As for, if someone's like, you didn't think it went on for too long, it's like, I don't know that that's gonna be something I could give a really, really good argument for other than just saying, oh, it was a bit long. Sure, it's long, but like I don't know that fight scenes have a specific time limit. And then of course if someone said, when you think it's absurdly grand and epic in like almost like a negative way, it's just like, I don't know what to say to that really. No, I don't feel that. And so much work and effort went into that. Well, there's some impressive choreography. There's a level of appreciation. Absolutely there is. It's impressive. So, man. And the Vader fight in the dirt pile was just like goofy and it was embarrassing is what it was. This is Obi-Wan Kenobi and Darth Vader finally meeting up after 10 years being apart. And that's what happened. How embarrassing. Roger the same. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, I mean that backflip porn. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Backflip porn, I don't know what to say. All right, no, it isn't. If I was gonna look up porn for backflipping, I would not look up that. I would look up some proper parkour slash Cirque du Soleil shit. I wouldn't be looking up this. It's a nice little character moment at the end of that fight in the series Obi-Wan. Oh no, here we go. Where like Darth Vader, he's not trying to kill Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan is old, not ashamed. Darth Vader can take him easily. He wants to make him suffer. They just accept this and I hate it. I hate it too. They just like, yeah, yeah, that he doesn't want to kill them. But what about all the other times where the Stormtroopers shoot them and people are clearly trying to kill Obi-Wan? Well, hey, at least he's not arguing what the guy we covered did who said he didn't even want to capture him. Remember, we covered someone who said that. Yeah, that's right in the comments. No, it was the, yeah, it was the Reddit post. Don't worry, chat. You'll see us look at that tomorrow. Yeah, you'll see that, chat. Yeah. Consider this a teaser for Infinity to come. But yes, they liked that bit. We did not. But he just like uses the force to just like spread all of this flamboyant material on the ground. And then he's just gonna literally rub Obi-Wan's face in it while he's on fire. That's what Darth Vader wants to do. Apparently. And it's perfect. It's not. It's not. It's not perfect. It's perfect. When did Darth Vader ever just randomly start torturing people because he was just angry at them? And he just wants to, like we've gone into this cartoony villain territory. That just seems, I don't know. I'm not sure that it's inconsistent with Anakin's characterization at the end of the prequels, but we're 10 years into Darth Vader. I was more so aiming for the cringe of being like, I'm gonna, now with the tools available through luck, recreate what you did to me, but to you, and it's not gonna do fuck all to you really. But it's, it feels like a writing 101, like how to create a meaningful payoff. And it's like, make thing happen that happened before, but again, but reverse. Yeah, and shitty. And yeah, like it just, I felt kind of cringe, if I'm being completely honest. It was very cringe. It really was like baby's first writing. Like people make that argument, forget the scene that comes like right after when we have all these stormtroopers shooting into the fire. Whether Obi-Wan clearly is still lying or getting dragged from. Well, I suppose that the killer argument is just the fact that Vader says, bring him to me. Yeah, yeah. In terms of just the Obi-Wan ain't getting away, but then he does, cause of course. And he tries to capture him, the rest of all the episodes that we've watched so far. Oh yeah, episode five absolutely killed that Reddit post when you find out that he's pissed off at a, wait, was it four? Sorry, episode four. Yeah, it's the same episode that we cover it, where he's like pissed off the Obi-Wan escapes, right? And it's like, wait, I thought he wanted him to. Well, maybe you should have let him escape you fool. Cause he's a stinky cave-dweller and now you got to make him a good Jedi. See, I like that moment, the actual fight. Again. It doesn't matter cause you get the good character moments. No, it's not good. It's not good character. When has Darth Vader ever been like that? Ever? When has he ever done things like that? I don't know. What are you talking about when he killed the Sam people? I do think that, yeah, it's consistent with Anakin's prequel characterization. I just don't know why that's what they're going for. Yeah, cause technically he is in years, one year closer to being OT character than he is to being prequel character. Oh, he's ten years away from... More important here is that he is appealing specifically to Darth Vader, not Anakin. Yeah, I suppose that's a fair point. Well, Fringy. Mm-hmm. They are the same person. No, I know that. But I guess when we describe the entity that you're referring to, you know, because even Yoda is able to tell Obi-Wan the distinction between the two, the Padawan you trained is gone. I would argue that like in Attack of the Clones, for example, right, if we, if we accept like Yoda's turn of phrase of gone Anakin Skywalker consumed by Darth Vader or whatever it is he says, then I would imagine that in Attack of the Clones, that's just Darth Vader poking his head out. You know, I suppose I would... That is an element of his personality that will be exploited to create... Now we're getting into literally defining the lines in the sand versus just talking about the character that is present in the prequels versus the character that is present in the OT. Right, and also he's ten years away from Anakin Skywalker. Well, so I think something that's worth considering is you think about the timeline of Darth Vader specifically, like from becoming Darth Vader getting in the suit and then all the time that we, you know, passes and then the OT. In that time, does it make more sense that a change in the way that he conducts himself occurs like gradually or that it happened really early on in his life and that Darth Vader then becomes fairly static for a while? Yeah, I mean, I agree that that makes sense. Like I agree that it makes sense that he would not be like this anymore, considering that he's like this in the OT. I also think that, like, even if the change was gradual, he's like a halfway in between. He's still very much Anakin. So I don't understand the decision at all. And I think it's dumb. But I'm not sure that we could call it out of character. I think we can call it incongruent, like with... Like... I guess I think it's just dumb because like... I suppose when I think about who Darth Vader is and what I find... Like, Darth Vader is intimidating because he's very cold. Like, he will pretty ruthlessly get rid of people who he perceives as failing him. He doesn't... Like, sure. I guess when you think about, like in Rogue One, what's so scary about him is he's just like pressing forward. Nobody's stopping him. He's just plowing through them. It's like this unfeeling malice, this just silent... What's scary about him is... Yeah, exactly. Like a robot coming after you. It can't be reasoned with. It's not there to talk. It's not there to have a conversation. It wants something and it's going to kill you if you're in the way. And you can think of examples like, I find you lack of faith disturbing. He didn't need to do that. And he was definitely not going to kill that guy. He just did it because he felt... Like there's definitely elements of Darth Vader toying with people and exploiting his level of power over people. You know, like when he... Perhaps you think you're being treated unfairly and stuff like that. He definitely has that streak. I just don't know that I believe that... I don't know that... I don't see how that relates to what happens here in Kenobi. I just don't get the impression that that's something that he would do. Like, I think he would just kill Obi-Wan like he did in A New Hope. I think that's what he would do. He just kills him. Yeah, you'd think that in A New Hope. I do want to ask you the question. What do you think, like, you know, revenge of the Sith Anakin Skywalker would do to Obi-Wan? Wait, what do I think revenge of the Sith Anakin would do to Obi-Wan? I imagine he'd get the kill shot as soon as he could. I think he would, yeah. Because I think we'd see what we saw in that little recording when he was in the Jedi Temple in that film. He's just going for a kill on every beat. Well, here's a reference. When Palpatine is describing what happened in the opening of Revenge of the Sith to Anakin, there's only naturally cut off your hand. You wanted revenge. He doesn't, like, torture and torment Dooku. He defeats him and then executes him. It's not like... But that's... At the same time, I don't want to imply that someone like Darth Vader isn't capable of wanting to cause pain within someone to torture them to some degree. It's just... This one felt odd. He has a goal, he will. If anybody was having trouble feeling that this was in any way a strong argument against Vader's character, I'm assuming they would... If they felt if he on this one that they would concede, what he does soon after is entirely out of character. The inability to use his force again, the reluctance to chase Obi-Wan because a load of droid is slowly dragging him away. Like, all of that shit would damage that moment significantly anyway. He'd let him go. He could have stopped him. As we now know, confirmed by the following episode, that was actually out of character. He did not want him to get out. And so, then you've got to think about the totality of the scene. He could have killed him, but he chose to put him in the fire and then let him escape because he just chose not to pursue him. Even though he wanted to have him captioned and killed. Yeah, it's out of character. In its totality, whether or not... I guess it's more up for debate whether you think he would put him in the fire. I don't, personally. Also, I think that... I'm happy to sit at the... Most I'll ever go is that I'll have that back and forth talking about different elements and stuff. The fact that people have gone as far as saying it was perfect is like, wow, okay. Like, they couldn't have... So, any sense of them having a conversation is out of line because that would be less than perfect. Like, it is crazy. It should be a very somber, solemn, I feel kind of moment where they meet, not this. I'm gonna drag you through some fire I happen to have here and that'll be that and now you're gone. And they just don't talk. They don't talk. I feel like that's what... Next episode, right? Next episode, they're gonna have a chat. I assume that... Vada putting Obi-Wan in the fire, I think, is easily the least bad aspect of the scene. I'm trying to think of all the aspects because I think they're all like bad, so I'm just trying to think of which I would categorize the least problematic. I'm like, hello. I also don't think it's a violation of his character. It's just pushing it in every regard. It's pushing what Anakin might do. I'm assuming you still... Pushing that he's still like Anakin rather than like Vader at this point. I assume you're not including the results of the fire in this. Oh, yeah, no, that's ridiculous. All right, good. As long as... Yeah. So like, it's... I don't have a problem. Like, no, I do have a problem with Vader at 10 years on being closer to Anakin than I had that closer to how he was in Revenge of the Sith than how he is in New Hope. However, I don't think it's an impossibility and like, we could be leading into an event that totally explains his change in demeanor and this happened to him 10 years in. And like, I think I would be fine with that if it was properly explored and then we saw where the change happened. I know that's not going to happen. Which is why we're on really thin ice with it, I think. If I've understood you correctly, your question to us should be, can you envision a good, like an excellent encounter with those two? And the requirements are, he does put Kenobi at least briefly into some form of a fire. Is that possible? And I think I would say yes. I'd say yes, it's possible. The motivation of Revenge, like, you know, you did this to me, I suppose. I think so, but I would really have to fucking wear a card to not make it so goddamn like cartoony in terms of like, oh, some fire rocks. Like, it's like, yeah, well, yeah. Cause if it was just like a practical thing of like, this is the easiest attack you can deliver right now, then yeah, like, it's pretty, probably pretty easy to write that into a scene and have it be fine. It's like Obi-Wan standing near some fire and Vader is some distance from him and he pushes him into the fire. Like that's the easiest form of attack for him. Like, yeah, that works. And yeah, sorry as well. What was just highlighted by Rich's comment that I really am not a fan of is he was like, who cares about the fight itself? We got a character moment. And to me, it's just like that description of like, I prefer the idea than caring about how it was executed. Like how we got everything in place, how everything happened. It's like, who cares? We got a character moment. It seems almost uncharacteristic of them saying that. I think a consistent sort of part of their criticism of the prequels was that a lot of the fights are bad because they lack character moments and but they do have like spectacle and choreography, whatever. But so like, I think they do tend to care a lot more about what meaning they can draw out of character interactions and stuff, which I'm totally on board with. I just don't know why. Like when I present to Rich a well-executed character scene with great choreography versus a well-executed character scene with shit choreography, I would hope that you would see a difference between the two. Yeah. And that you would prefer the one with good choreography. Yeah, you know, right. You get that good character moment. Yeah, no, with Darth Vader in this when he first showed up at the little village and they have their showdown, I was thinking about their big fight at the end of Revenge of the Sith, which say what you want about the prequels, there was like an attempt at doing something really dramatically heavy between the two of them when Obi-Wan's like. So this is like a moment of, all right, Jay, yeah, get in there. Say it. Say some stuff, because it sounds like that would go against the current vibe of sitting with these two, which is totally fair. Just saying, is point being that there was clearly a story being told in the prequels. It's like, why would you bring that up? If not to highlight, there's not much of a story being told in Ken Booby. Well, they over did it, sure. But that was the goal. And this felt so like lights. Is this like, oh, there's Darth Vader. It's like if you saw a guy in a Darth Vader costume at Disneyland or whatever. So you never really feel like you're watching an intimate, it's just a guy in a Darth Vader costume. You're saying you don't feel that? No, not with the show, I don't. I just feel like I'm watching, like I mentioned earlier, like a fan film. That's the best thing that. It doesn't feel like, I sort of like get it. You know, probably wants to say, you know, he's fucked for a while, but. You know, tone, atmosphere, the way they film it, the soundtrack, all these things are gonna matter incredibly much of what it comes to creating the feel of Vader arriving. And yeah, he kind of, it's pretty casual in this. And I think that's one of the things we noticed quite quickly, we were like, the vibe is off. I am not getting the feels. Yeah. Also, yeah, it's nice editing. All right. That the show has going for it is the extreme lowered expectations. This has come, I mean, this in the Mandalorian season one has come the closest to capturing that magic. Say rope one. No, is it this in Mandalorian season one? Definitely not this, definitely not this. This, this shows a friggin' dumpster fire. Mandalorian episode one, season one. No, season one. Yeah, season one, yeah, I know I just misspoke. No, I just don't, I don't feel it. I certainly don't feel it, but it certainly, sure as hell ain't Kenobi, this shit sucks. Yeah, just, you know, it's basically EFAP's perspective that Mandalorian season one was shite as well. Yeah, it's real bad. I think it was just sort of the first thing after the, you know, a lot of the disappointment that had come before it. And the Mandalorian, it fooled a lot of people. There are people who think that's legit really good. And it's not. No, right, there are people who think it's okay. Can you believe that? That's true. There are people who think that it's okay, but it isn't okay. It's very bad. In season two is, ooh, I think it's, ooh, I don't know. Cause we, cause I think, is it Mandalorian season two what got us to start like recording all of this Star Wars stuff and? That's a good question. I'm not even sure what made us sort of test out recording. Cause we did actually do a test run of a EFAP mini for Mando season one, but it didn't work out. We were mostly just listening. But that in retrospect is probably because our good faith was like way over the, over the limits, I think, cause we were just like really hope. We were so on the Mandalorian side. We were like, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please be good. And it wasn't at all. But season two, I think we tested it and it just worked. It worked really well. Cause there was so much dumb shit even in the first episode. But EFAP, I'm looking at you. Some people were quite angry with us for our take on the first episode. But once a few of them came out, it became clear that a lot of other people were like, wait a minute, season two of Mando's not as good. And then we were like, no, it's about as good as season one. Don't worry about it. Yeah. For some reason it's kind of like the first amazing Spider-Man movie where it kind of, it's really, really, really bad. And it sort of just slips under the radar maybe because all of its problems aren't as, it's not as openly cringe or the issues aren't as obnoxious. But season two of Mandalorian is, I think it's more obviously bad. Remember the Boba Fett episode? Fucking hell. Jesus Christ. Amazing. Also, don't worry. I don't think, I'm not seeing all of you. Loads of people like, I thought it was trash from the beginning. And it's like, that's okay. You there who said that just now, you're a liar. I know you're lying. Liar. Fight, fight, fight, fight, fight, fight, fight, fight. I'm gonna fight you with my cock. Oh, wow. Oh no. Wait, Metal, all of your fights are with your cock. Yeah. Do you like have a place, you set it down some place before a fight so it doesn't get damaged? Then when you're done. We were just earlier talking about how it fell off. Yeah. I'm not sure if that was before or after the stream started, but we were talking about how Metal's cock fell off. Yeah. My dick fell off. Was that the first stream? Oh, that was the beginning. We've just spotted a super channel. We'll probably read ahead of time because it's relevant. Oh my goodness. Oh my God. Vader tortured the dude for info at the beginning of episode four and he was about to torture Leia with the droid. These are points in favor that Vader tortures. So that actually is. No, it's not. Hang on. So that's actually something that we've already gone over. We were talking about the pragmatic reasons he does things, right? And so you in your comment, you said Vader tortured the dude for info at the beginning of episode four and then he was about to torture Leia with the droid. If you remember, he's torturing her for information too. So the only one I think you can cite is probably Han Solo in Bespin. But at that point, it seems that he's torturing or I can't remember who's in the room at that point. I think it's him and several stormtroopers. I don't even know what's going on. But Han Solo at that point is like a pretty frustrating thorn in the side of the empire, especially because he fucking helped. He's the reason the Death Star got destroyed in a sense, him and Luke put together, right? And they've been chasing them throughout that movie. So that's probably the best reference you have. But the others don't work in terms of what point we're trying to make. They go on to say Ben has been forced dead for 10 years to avoid detection. So is it ever stated in the show that that's what he did? Because I thought it was against his will that he couldn't use the force. Obi-Wan? Yeah, because he keeps trying to access it, but he can't. Yeah. Is that stated? I don't remember the show saying, I don't remember Obi-Wan saying I've stopped using the force to avoid being detected. I don't remember him saying that. Well, remember the first two episodes, we assume all the way, like until he stops Leia when she jumps off the building because he's very smart. Oh, shit. We assume that he can, right? Talk about learning new things about a movie I fucking adore, several people have just said he was torturing Han to lure Luke, which does, I'm pretty sure, work. I'd say that, yeah, because Luke is like, my friends are in danger. Since they're paying or something like that. Oh. Like it's a trap to get Luke, because it is part of his plan to lure Luke there. And I guess that's how he was doing it. He was torturing Han. That's, yeah, I should have known that already, but nice. Thanks, Chad. I knew there was a reason we kept you guys around. I don't know why I didn't say it. But sorry, so we were talking about the Obi-Wan being locked off from the force. We, I think when we were watching episodes one and two, we assumed that he just wasn't using it when he should have been because the writing is crap. But it turns out that he had to like really try to save her from jumping off the building. Right. Because we were confused. Yeah, if I'm, look, as good faith as I can, it seemed to me that with what Tala is Tala, right? Well, she says in episode four to Kenobi when he's trying to move the little bit of metal. She says that not all wounds that need to be healed are physical, some are mental. And she basically implies to him that he can't get the, because she's watching him do that. And she's like, you need to, you know, get a piece with yourself before you'll be able to get back with the force. In episode five, she says almost in response to his response in episode four, because he says to her in episode four something like some failures or some issues or some regrets that you can't forget or something like that. And then she says something to reflect in episode five. She gives him the inspiration in episode five to help clear his mind and get the force back. But he's already got it back anyway at that point because he was fucking holding the whole ocean. So what I'm trying to say is, as far as I was aware, the show was saying he lost the ability to use the force against his consent, if you will. He did not want to lose the ability to use the force, but he did because he was very sad. And then he's gotten it back now. Which is a thing? Yeah, I guess that's a thing. That's why we didn't assume that was even possible because we didn't think that was... You can't get so sad you don't use the force or you can't use the force. And if that's the case, how come he used it just fine in episode three at the end after the order 66 happens? And... So yeah, I don't know of any line. I've watched all of these episodes without any cover, like just in the editing-based style sort of thing. I haven't heard Obi-Wan say that he's stopped using the force for 10 years to avoid being detected. I didn't catch that line, but if it exists, then fair enough. And let's see what Chad Adams was saying, the fight was perfect. Which fight? Between... I'm assuming they're talking about the fight we're talking about right now, which is this one too. Oh no, it was a joke. It was a fucking joke. It's like they literally had no choreography and they just told two people to hit sticks together and we'll make them lightsabers and post or whatever. That it was super awkward. It was, there is no way you could tell me that that was Darth Vader, especially in a post-Mustafar fight. Absolutely not. What a joke of a fight. Have you seen everybody making fun of the way Riva and Darth Vader fight in episode five, the Dark Souls portion of it? Yeah, we were talking about how that looked really awkward in the video when she was doing that weird rolling around stuff. Like, what are you doing? It's gotten so superficial for praise for me that I would be like, well, at least he beat her. I know, yeah. Oh, thank fuck. There was that concern that she'd beat his ass. Though after that fight in the dirt pile, maybe she would beat him, I don't know. Oh wait, I'm not sure. Yeah, I should be careful actually, because we're live. Yeah, that's why I started talking over it, to be honest. I'm fine with that entire encounter. I do like that moment in the second. I've hated it through and through. Fine with that entire encounter. I hate it through and through. There's so many things wrong with it. I would just like to ask him some questions about the encounter as a whole. I mean, especially the escape on Kenobi's part, like really, come on. Yeah, how does he get away? How does he go away? He's right there. When Riva, like, I think Riva is the one that tells him that Anakin's still alive. And it's like, oh yeah, he wouldn't even know that. Why wouldn't he? I know that. Is he rude? Wouldn't. You left him alive. The last time you saw him was alive. He was alive when you left him. So this would be it. He knows that Anakin is Darth Vader. He knows that. So he would have to not know that Darth Vader exists, which I don't think. We have to call that a pretty incredible contrivance, if not just a whole, because either if we run with a scenario, which nobody here, including everyone on the cast and fucking chat, believe that for an entire decade, Darth Vader has done nothing that would make him known to the world in any way, shape or form. He has just been in his little house on Mustafa doing his knitting or whatever. You have to have that happen. And you also have to have him be someone who isn't known to anybody on the Senate either, which in a council of whatever the higher ups of the Senate are, because Bail Organa would tell Obi-Wan about this instantly. Yeah. So it doesn't work. Obi-Wan should have found out way earlier than this. You'd have to be living under a rock on some planet with no internet or any. Yeah, it's, you would have to make sure, you have to go out of your way to make a scenario where you didn't know about Darth Vader. One of the most potentially like, you know, force unleashed one with this, right? Like the basis of it is the Darth Vader is Jedi hunting, basically. I figure most of his Jedi hunting, like he's going to be the top Jedi killer in the Empire at that portion of time. When is he going to be doing most of that works? Like in the latter portion of the 20 year gap or the former? And it's like, I think it's going to be the first few years he's killing most Jedi, because that's going to be where the main amount of Jedi escaping the temple or on different missions is going to have happened. He probably has gotten around and killed a bunch of them. Probably the bad hiders get caught. So yeah, I think it doesn't make any fucking sense that Kenobi didn't know. And I think it's just lame that, I can't remember who said this anymore. I don't know if it was one of us or somebody on, I think it might have been as on real BBC, but it stinks to me that the writers of this show wanted to be able to say, we wrote the scene where Obi-Wan found out that Anakin was alive. How fucking cool is that? It's like, yeah, good for you. It's just someone yelling, Anakin is alive! And he makes the face. Woo! Obi-Wan. It's like, that's kind of neat. Yeah, I wish I would have like, I don't know, dwelled on it a little bit more. It feels like it introduces these things, these kind of character beats, but then it sort of keeps moving along. It doesn't focus on them quite as much as it should. I agree with Rich, I was happy with the encounter. Yeah! What is he supposed to do? I feel bad for Jay. Yeah. What is he supposed to do? It's one of those like, are you so lacking in any imaginative qualities that you can't imagine anything else that they could have like, what is he supposed to do? Hmm. You couldn't think of a few things? I would not write this shitty story. Like, really? I would have been happy if you didn't meet him at all until like, maybe the end of this. Base Jay. There we go, there we go, that's, I mean, I would be happy if they never met at all, but until I do hope, but yeah. Season or something. Well, I know. Yeah, I know. I was happy with that until like, you know, the series was announced. Sorry, I wanna hear that last, can we rewind it back a little five seconds? I just wanna hear the response. With the encounter. Yeah. What is he supposed to do? Like, really? I would have been happy if you didn't meet him at all until like, maybe the end of the season or something. Yeah, I know. It's like, what do you do? Kind of. Well, that's like, what do you do? What do you do? Well, that's your fucking job as a writer to figure out if you wanna do a show about Obi-Wan. I don't really, I'm a little confused, I guess, about, like, would this be, what do you do? You don't need to make the show. You don't need to write it with Darth Vader in it. You don't have to. I guess. It can be as bare bones as Obi-Wan it is cave. That could have been the whole season. Yeah. It could have been. And so maybe like, that's absurd. That wouldn't have a cell. And it's like, I think we could make that cell. I think it's possible. I think you could make it cell, but also I don't think that appealing to that is meaningful in terms of countering criticism of the narrative. Well, you know what it could have been? This is a thought that occurred to me the other day. As let's say, a force ghost, Wagon or Mace Windu comes and finds Obi-Wan and gives him, and you find Obi-Wan and he's like, he's beating himself up of what happened. He's blaming himself. He blames, he blames Wagon. No, he blames himself. I think he, I think there's definitely a part of him that would, if he, if we've got a season, I think we could do both. I don't know why we wouldn't. Absolutely. I'm just imagining a series where you have Obi-Wan on his cave, blaming himself, and then force ghost pops up. Maybe he doesn't introduce himself necessarily, like, hey, Obi-Wan, but just give similar vision using the force from Obi-Wan's perspective. He wakes up and he's back in like revenge of the Sith era Star Wars. You know, people cream over that. It's like, oh my God, it's the prequels again. I mean, they loved his 10 minute scene of it, right? Two minutes. I have Obi-Wan with now waking up thinking, okay, I've woken up was, I think his immediate assumption would be, have I just had like a wildly crazy premonition? Have I had a, because Jedi, you know, they can have those, but I think I might have just had a premonition more powerful and more intense than any Jedi has ever had before. And he goes with all of his foreknowledge and he tries to stop, you know, Palpatine's success and rise. And he finds that either he can't or that what he would have to do would be so like, you know, drastic that it would not have been a viable solution for him, particularly without the foreknowledge. And the conclusion would be, hey, this force goes to, maybe this is just like a one episode thing, but like a force goes being like, hey, don't, you couldn't have stopped it. You're like one guy. I just wish we could go that experimental where the whole season, let's say it's six episodes and each episode is like the first one, he just talks to vague pieces of Qui-Gon audio. It's not like coming through very clearly. Jawa visits and maybe he spies on Luke a little bit and that is it other than maybe you get some nightmares going in his sleep and then intercut that like episode two, we get more of Qui-Gon's coming through clearer. Maybe we see his day job. And then the nightmare gets stronger and we start to see what he focuses on entirely. Episode three, a full episode of flashback to Clone Wars, just one where it's focused entirely on telling us something about what he trained Anakin to do. Episode four, Qui-Gon can come in as a full voice, have a really big breakdown, like they have a whole argument that actually ends really badly or something. Then episode five, they bring in like the initial idea that they were gonna have or something with Tuscan Raiders attacking in some way, to perform where Luke lives. And Obi-Wan has to make a decision, how much does it, what does he wanna use to defend them, if anything. And maybe that event can heal the relationship that maybe Rocky with Owen. Then episode six, you could even make episode six, the one where he finds out about Darth Vader. I'm not sure we would place that in the timeline, but we can make that pretty early. You know, like he only just got tattooing, maybe this is a year after that or something and that Darth Vader has been announced as the right hand of the Emperor and Bale contacts him to tell him that and that's how the season ends. Something like that, I don't know. Yeah. It sounds really to lame to a lot of people, I guess, but like to me, that's like, oh God, do we get 40 minutes for each one of those? We can do so much. Yeah. Absolutely. I wanna say as well, I think we had pretty good suggestions in the start of our, like. We did. Yes. Mini. I was like, hey, a Jawa steals his lightsaber and tries to like ask for a bribe to get it back. Like, or, hey, I'll rat you out as a Jedi to the inquisitors. I'm a really good story. Yeah. Well. Yeah, it can be a show that has levity in it, but you could have a, there's a lot you can do. Just not this. Not what they did. What they did was a mistake. It should not have happened. And film, you gotta have. What do you do with an Obi-Wan Kenobi TV show? Well, we answer that question. In our meetings and later. This genuinely depresses me. Like, there are so many millions of options. No, this is the only thing they could have done. I mean, what else could they have done? What are they gonna say about that? Oh, right. Let me roll them back a little bit as well. Yeah. This, the answer was, I didn't even think of the Leia connection, which I think is probably the way to do it. Oh, yeah, I think they're just moving on. No. I think they're moving on. Yeah. The Leia thing is the way to do it. And I'm like, damn. I just want to say, I'm gonna roll them back again because I really wish that wasn't it. I think of the Leia connection, which I think is probably the way to do it. Because obviously Leia knows who the fuck Obi-Wan Kenobi is. Not Obi-Wan. I don't think you can make that claim. Yeah, if I was male, I'm not telling my 10-year-old Leia that about Obi-Wan Kenobi, I'm keeping her, I'm keeping her away from all of that. I'm not telling her about all this. What he's saying is, we know that by a new hope, she knows who Obi-Wan is. Sure, but at this point. Sure, yeah. But I think what he's saying is, we know that in a new hope, she knows who Obi-Wan is. So we can have a story that will connect her to Obi-Wan in some way, as opposed to work to know who Kenobi up on. Yeah, but I think that's what he's trying to say. Well, I mean, I'm fine with it, so long as it's not like, well, because we have a lot of contrived stuff to get him hanging out with Leia. But I think in terms of what we see in a new hope, it's fine. They've never met. No, for you, when we watched it, there was one thing that suggests that they've never met. But that's pretty insignificant. It's not significant compared to the reaction that she has when she finds out that he's there, which I think actually flows very well with them having met before. OK, so. I don't think I agree. The fact that she says Ben Kenobi does not mean that she knows him. It's just a fucking shock that her message must have gone through to him and that he is here. Not like, no, I agree. I don't think that means that she knows him. But I think if you watch that scene thinking, OK, these characters have met before, I think it's like, yeah, that is how she would react. I guess the thing is, in the recording, she says you knew she references Barrow right now in the. You serve my alongside my father in the Clone Wars. So that's that. I want to clarify, right? Is when you look at these references, this is specifically for Jay. When you have one that could go both ways and one that goes one way, that means we conclude one way. No, but I don't I don't see the other one is only going one way either. I see you serve my father in the Clone Wars. That's how she addresses. And you think that's something a friend would say. Something a couple of people. I see that as a. Well, just something a couple of people have mentioned in chat, which I think I mentioned, like, when when he dies, she's much more interested in accompanying Luke than being sad herself about it. We we had this conversation for you. I don't get to all of these. Before I had this conversation, when she comes, Luke, it comes straight after a scene, like where she is very clearly in like she's in the rebel base. She's very like competent there. She's given like she's given orders. She's talking about stuff and she's clearly very used to it. She seems like the kind of person who would be much more used to. OK, yeah, that person died. I have to move on and do like my work. I have to do I have to I'm like I'm involved in the military. This happens. Whereas Luke, this is this like first day. I think it makes sense that Leia would comfort Luke. Well, so the reason why I'm bringing this up is because if this show exists now, it makes less sense for this one to not upset her. You know, like it makes it makes less sense if he rescued her back when she was a kid from like certain death or just any number of horrible things happening and saved her life. Like I think that if he dies, like when he dies in a new hope, it would make it now makes less sense to me that she isn't more upset. You know, I mean, could she could she not just be dealing with it? Well, I mean, she could. But I I'd say that it's it's also more believable to me that she could deal with it well, while also being more sad about it than she is in that story. Yeah, let's put it this way, J. If she said in her greeting originally, you saved my life as a child and we went on. She's the events of this. Then when she has a reaction of you OK, Luke sort of thing. I think we would all agree. It's like we should probably see her reaction to Ben's death. I think that would be like, OK, that would be interesting for her in terms of character of like, OK, she's more concerned about Luke being OK than she is about like taking care of like her own grief. I would assume that that would mean that she is used to losing people in battle and that she's learned to deal with it and get one of the only things I actually really like in The Force Awakens is her reaction to Hans death. It's not something she deals with well. He takes a moment. Right. But like they've spent a lifetime together. I think I think it would make more sense now like in a new hope if they were like grieving together rather than what it comes across as, which is that Luke is grieving. It clearly creates some weird incongruity that you wouldn't expect. Here's the thing. It's not a new it's not a new hope's fault because I just don't I just don't agree with this. I think that it's not incongruent that she doesn't that she doesn't grieve because so we're getting for her in that scene is showing her as this like very focused on what she has got to achieve. And she's in that stuff on her plate. So what I would say is it's not impossible that she would react that way. I just think it's less likely that she would react in that way compared to also herself being upset. It's like someone that she spent like years of her life in love with. Plus Obi-Wan, that's someone that she, you know, formed a bond with once, but hasn't seen for nine years. A deeply meaningful person to her life. I don't know that you can just draw that line arbitrarily like, oh, she cared more about Han. And what Obi-Wan? What about Obi-Wan's reaction to save her? I didn't say she didn't care more about Han. I'm saying you're using that as an excuse to say she doesn't seem to give a shit about Obi-Wan. No, it's not. No, it's not that she doesn't give a shit. It's that she is a fact like she's effective at dealing with grief. She's not she's not taking. This is a hard hit that's going to have her like have to sit down and take a moment. She is much more focused on what she has to achieve. I can I can see her being more focused on what she has to achieve compared to Luke. But I would still, if if now canonically she got saved by Obi-Wan as a child and then he died on the Death Star, I would expect more of a reaction now than what what is in the film. And if it was some kind of active battle situation, I would give you more credit, but this is when they think everything's chill. So I don't see why she's not grieving. They're they're prepping. They're prepping to blow up. No, not yet. No, wait. No, not yet. They're escaping that then. She when she first does the agreement with Luke, it's just that they're driving away after they've left. And then it's like, all right, we're not out of the woods yet. And then that's when they're like, I don't know. I'm going to call you insane to think anything other than the fact that this is clearly Luke's loss and that this character, Leia, is just trying to be OK with it. Like, oh, it sucks that you've lost this guy who meant a lot to you. And not only that, we've been focusing on Leia's reaction. No, no, no, no, no. Can Obi his reaction to learning about them having to save Leia and everything is also something that has to be taken into consideration as well. So what I was what I was picturing this whole time, right? While we were talking about Leia cutting Luke is one for the Death Star run and Luke's is something that Obi and Leia like gives me a kiss on the cheek. I was talking about the scene I got on screen this whole time. Why? I'm looking at a stream. I thought we were talking about on the Millennium Falcon. No, like, well, yeah, that's what that that's what everyone was definitely thinking about except me. Why? I understand now why this happened. Why? Oh, oh, wait, are you talking about the scene when he's about to go get prepped, get in his ex when you fly off to the Death Star? Yeah, why would we want to focus on that area for that morning? And that's my favorite in here. Yeah, that seems like an odd place for it to happen. Well, I guess. So no, I will come full disclosure here when we rewatch New Hope like the other day for any. I guess I just missed the part where she comforts him on the Millennium Falcon because I heard people talking about. I heard people talking about it. I was ready on the lookout for it. It can notes my video and I got to the end of the film thinking that the the thing that people were referencing was the scene when they're prepping for the Death Star run. I thought that's actually fine. People are wrong to criticize it for this. And I saw I must have just we maybe we were talking over it when it happened in the Falcon because I didn't remember it. I haven't. I thought we did. I thought we did. But OK, yeah, maybe maybe not. Nevertheless, I don't. Yeah, I think I think this show has now created a problem which didn't exist before. Yeah, because I just thought that they were distant. She knew him, she respected him, but she didn't really feel much for him. But she respects the fact that Luke had a strong connection to him. Yeah, because she uses his connection with Bale Organa as as their instant connection, not now it doesn't work because the reality is now is to have as much of a strong connection with one when you're breaking up as he says, I can't believe he's gone. That's like the invitation for Leia to join him in that feeling to be like he was a great man or he he fucking like me and him go way back. He was he was an incredible guy. Like, but instead she says, like, don't blame yourself sort of thing. Luke should have said I can't believe he's gone at the end of the first episode of Kenobi. Right. Also, there is, like I said, the the element of one there on the Death Star having if all of this really was canon all along, a lack of Ben realizing that Leia, the person he saved 10 years ago, needs to be rescued here from Darth Vader, like, again, like, hmm, that's kind of that's kind of a thing. Yeah, you know what? You're right. That's another thing. He doesn't mention at all at any point the the reality that this has all happened before. But like even in a joke joking way, like, not even necessarily for information, but just, yeah, man, this is fucking deja vu in it. But no, no reward is worth it. Don't worry else. Well, we should just swim into the Death Star. All right, here we go. Anyway, we'll lay a little orphan, Leia. She's precocious. You think being like him will make people frightened of you? But really, you're fucking saying this isn't something this isn't things 10 year old say. Like it just it just isn't things that a 10 year old says. It's so I can't believe it ever made one decision for yourself in your entire life and never will. Yeah, go back to Caledon. She's all grown up. You know what reminds me of that scene? That reminds me of the that reminds me of the little girl in airplane who's entire like the entire joke is that she's acting like an adult and it's really funny. Yeah, kind of like either one who like black men. Yeah, yeah. Like the little girl who says I like my man like I like my coffee black. I I just it's like I'm starting to look back on the show and be like, man, that seems almost absurd on its own, isn't it? Because there's not much else. There's there's only what she says to Obi-Wan about the whole by hiding your traits, you're revealing them or whatever. There's that and then there's this and they haven't really done more. Leia is insightful randomly to people, though they did have to do the whole engineering thing. So she bypassed the compressor. She did because the Skywalker's are like gods, you see. Oh, oh, that's a great quote. I can't remember where it's from now. Yes, I can't remember either. I don't know. It's just something. Oh, I remember. So I was theory. That was a flying as well. With that, we watched that. Yes, we saw it. Yes. Anyway, moving on. And she doesn't take shit from anybody. I like some of the writing of her character. That actress is in a different show. That's all you got to say. I was about to say, let him elaborate. And then he said the actress is in a different show. And I'm like, now I'm very confused. I still don't know what you might try to say. No, I'm not going to attack the child actor. She's fine, but not for this. She feels like she's on like a like a Disney Junior. The whole house. Say something. You remember the scenes? Do you remember the scenes? Do you remember when Obi-Wan hit her under his trench coat? That was ridiculous. It was a little silly looking. A little silly. Again, that's on another show. That's a kiddie show. No. In 1977, a stormtrooper bumped his fucking head. I could tell that the scars haven't quite been all over yet from the end. Some scars never heal. I was about to say, yeah. Some scars never heal. That's why they're called scars. And it's why they're called scars. Wow. They will just rip it into you, Fringy. I think you should fuck them up. Punch them. Give them a little punch. Look, I'm just, I'm just, I'm chill. All right. Just lay a chase from the first episode where she's running from flee. I'm OK with that. But once again, in the forest. That was really bad. That was really badly done. That was not a good setup for the series. Lowered expectations. I know it's bad, Rich. Don't give it a pass because other things are all so bad. I really wish I could just be in the room for that moment and be like, yeah, man, I thought Picard was like fun because my expectations have been so lowered by Rise of Skywalker and some other stuff. I just want to see what they'd say. Yeah, it would be interesting to see. Yeah, but Star Trek, they care about. Yeah. So that's the thing that I've been hearing from a lot of people, which is that you guys don't have to say they just don't care about Star Wars. I was just like, so I mean, they're still making arguments at some point, didn't they? And they do. They do talk about what they liked about the show at some point. Yeah, they do care about some of this. It's just, yeah, I don't know. That's unfortunate. But it is. It's so cheap. I'm happy with it. Yeah, I don't understand. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know that. I'm not sure why. Like you kind of pointing out things that you know suck. But then you just like, but I'm fine with it. I'm pointing out things you know suck. Well, it's all couched in the kind of like, this is cheap. This is stupid or ridiculous or silly. And that's like. Because they never say we like it because it's so intimate because it's it's smaller scale. That's not what they're saying. There is a sub there is a subtext of this show is pretty bad, though, kind of like seeping through this entire discussion. But then on top of it, it's like, but I like it, though. But no, I think that works, though. But it's all like it's seeping from all of the orifices. Like it's bad, though. It's just getting out. I think it's just like, yeah, jump it back in. They don't like the statement in isolation. They want to add caviar. It's like, yeah, but that's good, though. Yeah, yeah. And it feels that way. I know. And that's what's so great about it. It's it's so cheap. I'm happy with it. You know what I mean? It's weird. Where it's like, it's freeing. It's freeing because I don't care. So it's freeing because I don't know, you don't know. That has nothing to do with the show. Yeah, you're right. That's him. You don't care. That's totally fine if you don't care. But that but but if you do care, then how does that affect, you know, how you feel about the show? It's like, if it's kind of funny, that's fine. I'm not like, like, what has happened here? I don't know if the show is kind of funny and cheap. It's fine. It's like, oh, no. I'm not like angry that it's not, you know, I think some people maybe would want this to be like the quality of a feature film. And it looks like it's not just a quality of something of good quality. They're bad. Future films. Yeah, what the quality of like, I don't know, in terms of production of some Mando episodes. Oh, you know what? We should say that when he says they want the quality of a feature film. You're like, yeah, like Rise of Skywalker. I'm looking for that quality pedigree of the sky. Everyone knows. Everybody's favorite show. It's like, that's fine. At this point, it doesn't matter anymore. It looks like an expensive people think it does corners wherever it could. Well, that's probably the best summary I've heard, actually, an expensive TV show that cut corners whenever it could. Kind of, yeah, because you never don't see the quality, but you also see where the cheapness is. Try and be a motion picture. They spent all their money on the obelisk. They cheaped out on the the laser gate across the road. Oh, yeah, that Obi-Wan and land because they didn't just walk around it. Yeah, that's pretty bad. And see, like, so for this one moment, it's like, guys, there's like a thousand of these examples of these episodes. I'd love to listen to you laugh at how stupid loads of it is. But I don't know why. Why is this one worth mentioning? But the others on, you know, exactly. Remember, this is the scene where he takes an innocent person as a meat shield so that the stormtroopers don't hit him and the meat shield dies instead of him. This is the scene where he does that. And they just don't know when she'll die. I thought he'd know. So I'm saying the purpose of the meat shield is so that they say in the yeah, they instead of Kenobi when he takes him hostage, essentially. This is this innocent person. No, Rags, he liked the empire, so he's a fascism. OK. If you wonder what this place was before. Pressing the buttons like, oh, my God, he just he literally could have just like stepped over it if he really wanted to. And they get in the back and they're riding along with stormtroopers. I loved it. It's very like he loved it. How stupid the stormtroopers were. Call me talk about the dialogue. That's like Kenobi literally calls Leia Leia and the stormtroopers like, what did you say? Person who looks like Kenobi. Oh, I just spent my wife with Leia. Sometimes I just he could say the wrong things and I'm not a Jedi. So much of this conversation has been seen. I liked it seen. I liked it. It was cheap, but I liked it thing. Yeah, I liked it. There's not much substantiating of any of these points. It's kind of like explain what it is. And in a way, you explain things that are wrong with it, but then you follow it up with, but I like it. And so there's not much to latch on to here. Illusions to World War Two. Yes, yes. Well, that's what Star Wars is. Yeah, they got the flag on the back of the truck. Right. OK, I'm glad that's what you had the commentary on. And I feel like a whole scene. Well, this is so it's weird for us, because we're just like, hey, what about the writing, though? Because like we talk about it all the time. So it's like, I don't know. Guilty pleasure, like it's not good. And I but I love it. It's not guilty. It's just a pleasure, but it's not. It sure was guilty. Super amazing. It's not super amazing as one way to put it. Yeah, we ruled out super amazing. All right. All right. OK, we can tell you our expectation part, I think. I like I like so I said this isn't a serious in-depth critique, guys. So what I said was I hope they talk about the writing. Just the writing in the story that they're addressing right now. I was hoping that would happen. They normally do that most of the time. That's what I love about him. So yeah, it's super interesting to listen to what he is just like this whole. It's like those three different weird perspectives. Like Mike is good at doing it. Oh, this is like a guilty pleasure. And I think it's bad, but I kind of like it. And then Richard's like it ain't bad. Yeah, Richard's like, oh, bad. It's super OK. I think we're going to hear in a second. And, you know, and Jay is thinks like, oh, it looks cheap. And I don't think he likes it at all. That's what I feel like I don't know. He's just nervous in this. Yeah. So yeah. This is a total tangent. So if you have what you want to make about this, the motivation to go for it. This is pretty cool. Nintendo was announced or it was announced at Lego Con, which I didn't even know existed apparently. Like a Lego Mario sets. They've now added shy guy, hammer bros, nab it. That's really cool. I might get a shy guy, little Lego set. And we can have all games again. I want to I want to let go shy. I couldn't help myself. I want to let go. You know, when you bring up a tangent topic, the idea is that at least one other person cares. I I figured that that was something worth sharing with the world. But there's the shy guy Lego sets. I think there's a lot of people in chat who would be like, yeah, shy guy Lego sets on Ironclad. You're definitely on a chat. We're going, yeah, a guy like you don't know who shy guy is. You already knew that J did not know what a shy guy was. Hey, they probably know. J just doesn't. That's right. J told me the other day. I think I probably know. This doesn't know that the character is shy guy. Shy guy is wonderful. He is joy and love and life. I think I saw a tweet or something the other day. He's right, Jay. I tried to help you. OK, he's he's from Mario. Oh, that game that that game that we discussed the other day of. No, I know I know that you haven't had any experience with it. Now, now I want to float. I want to float this because we talked about this because I was genuinely baffled that Jay had not played any like Mario games, at least like in the mainline Mario. So this is kind of do you think that there is any game in the world that it would be more that it would be more surprising that you hadn't played at least one game for. I have played one Mario game. Well, but you haven't played any of the mainline Mario games. I don't have. Yes. You haven't played. I have played Mario and Sonic at the Olympic games. Oh, my God. Fuck off. We're sorry. Whatever is on the moon. So just to be clear, just to be clear, it's also my only Sonic game. Well, I've only played one Sonic game. That's funny, actually. Well, I would say that I would think that if somebody told me they hadn't played any Sonic games, it'd be like and this was somebody who's actually played a decent amount of video games. I'd be a little bit surprised. I think it's understandable. Considering their reputation, a lot of the times for more newish games in particular. And it's the same with because I because one of the ones that I brought up to Jay, I think, or I think you counter with like Call of Duty, but I wouldn't be surprised if I met somebody who never played Call of Duty. I didn't say that, like, that was definitely more definitely more surprising. I think the games will bring you with this count. What about the old like like the old Atari arcade games? Would those count as like a sort of set, right? The Pongs and Pac-Man. Are you going to play Tetris? Yeah, have you got it? I was about to ask that. No, I've played Tetris a lot. Oh, God, I think it's because the reason why I can accept that somebody wouldn't have played Call of Duty, even though it's sold like 200 million copies, is because if you don't like first person shooters, I can understand not going to play them or military games or violent games. But like Mario is so universal. I might go and shoot us and I've never played Call of Duty. Can we count chess? Ah, I think chess counts. If you haven't played chess, I would be surprised. Like I might be my number one because that applies to so many generations. OK, so like at this point that we're talking about different like a different standard to what I've done with Mario, because I have played like some mainline Mario games. They've just I've just never owned a copy. Like I've been to like friends houses and we've played some like whatever Mario game, like I play a lot of Mario Kart at like other people's homes. I'm not Legend of Zelda. I play. Oh, this is you know what? This is just going to be this. This answer is going to be just as fun. The only Legend of Zelda game I have played is Twilight Princess. Well, so I think that Zelda is a much more acceptable one that people haven't played. I've that doesn't surprise me at all. Acceptable. Yeah, a little bit. I think Mario is one of those like cultural it's so significant that it's genuinely a surprise. Oh, I guess I know. So to explain why I've never played it is just because like externally, I don't get much appeal from the aesthetic, right? Just from the outside looking in, I does not really much. It's like, oh, that's super cool. I'd love to like explore that world or experience that. So I don't really get that for Mario. Here's the thing. I don't know if it's because I'm so used to Mario and all of its characters. But to me, it is like entirely cohesive, even though I know that it's a lot of disparate elements coming together like this is the conversation we were having yesterday. But like I don't even mean like it just in terms of cohesion. I don't really when you had yesterday. Sorry, I because someone said Zelda is almost as popular. Isn't hasn't Mario sold like 500 million copies? When I look up the best selling games of all time, am I going to see Zelda having sold as many copies as that? Sorry, it's absolutely no clue. And I'm pretty sure that Mario is like far and away. The best selling video game series, like not even close. I would have more than Minecraft. Yes, Mario is number one. The total sales for the Mario franchise, including all of the spin-offs is 760 million copies. Let's scroll down the list. Where is where is Legend of Zelda? Legend of Zelda 126. So it's a very successful game. But like it ain't even close. So like how many copies Mario was sold? I feel like most people who owned like NES as NES, they probably owned a Mario game at some point. Oh, better than Minecraft. I'm pretty sure is the best selling individual. Yeah, Minecraft is the best selling individual video game of all time. Two hundred thirty. The other reason I've never really played Mario stuff is I've never owned a Nintendo console, except a Wii. That wasn't fake typing. That was real typing. I'm looking at the Wikipedia right now for the list of best selling video games. Oh, let me look that up right now. I don't understand why your typing still comes through on Discord. Hang on, let me just jam the fuck out of my keys real quick. Yeah, nothing. I was just hitting them so hard. I have been curious for a while, where, for any places, this microphone has a lot of weird sounds managed to get through where other people's don't. What, like the score? A lot of weird sounds. Yeah, like to get a mouse scroll wheel sound coming out is gotta be tough. So my my microphone is hovering above my, it's above my keyboard and my mouse. So that might explain it. I have now pointed my microphone at my keyboard and there's like an inch away and I'm going to just jam all of the keys. Awesome, please do. Fringy has no mic. There's nothing. Oh yeah, you can hear me clipping my nose occasionally. They're clipped ahead of time, so you don't have to worry for a little while. I don't understand why that stuff goes through. I didn't pre-cut it. I don't know, maybe the noise filter is too low or something, I don't know. But anyway, back to Shy Guy, so like... Not to Kenobi. Oh, Shy Guy, of course, yes. Of course. I think the, I would be surprised if someone hasn't played Pokemon as well. I think that would be enough. Pokemon was going to be my first kind of guess, but then I was like, I don't know, like, maybe? Grand Theft Auto was another one. Oh, no. Wait, what are you... What? What? I've not played Pokemon. That's surprising. I've never really appealed to me. What does appeal to you? To be... Well, so what I would say... Going outside. Oh, man. They made one for that, called Pokemon Go. Yeah. I've played that one. He played it up through your light again. I just didn't mention it because I thought that would make things worse. Loads of Zoom these days that have never owned a Nintendo console. Hasn't Nintendo Switch sold like 100 million units? Nintendo Switch is like a hugely successful... Yeah, like, not really a counter. The Switch is the only console from Nintendo that I've ever really been tempted to buy for myself. And I'm not like... I'm not tempted with a console at the moment. You're right, Rags. It's not a direct counter. I guess it's just that when someone says a lot of people haven't played a Nintendo, haven't earned a Nintendo console, it's like... I mean, more so than like an Xbox, at least. Like, Nintendo consoles typically sell better than like Xboxes. And I feel like a lot of people... You know what I mean? I guess... A lot of the things we've been saying are Nintendo products, whether they're Zelda, Mario, you know, that kind of thing. Well, it's just... I think it's... Because when I think about it, it's that the longevity of the appeal. So you think about Pokémon, and that's like a game you grow up with. And it persists for this day. Mario's a game you grow up with, and it predates some of y'all. And it's still around. So the period of time it has to exist. And it's so extensive that you're like, it's always there. It's not like, you know, there's only a couple of these games. There's a couple of these games, and they were on specific consoles. Like, there's always a way to play a Mario game or a Pokémon game. You know, or an arcade game. There's just always a way to play them. I think it's so like... Go for it. My equivalent for these games, for like, what the place they hold in most people's lives, I'm pretty sure my equivalent is going to be Jack and Dexter, right? Which is not as long-lived as a series. There are four installments that count. Here's the thing, though. Because those games, like Ratchet and Clank, Crash Bandicoot and the like, they're really important to me as well. But I still played Mario a lot. I just never did really like the Nintendo thing. I guess that's because I guess it's because Nintendo was so synonymous with video games. Like, a lot of people would still think of video games like, oh, yeah, you're playing on your Nintendo, not as many as like 20 years ago. But like, that's your Nintendo or when you think of video games, you think of Mario more so than you would think of a lot of other characters. I guess it's just that that awareness of like, the series makes it surprising to me that anybody wouldn't have played it. Like, you would imagine that even somebody who doesn't play video games at all, like, ever, and only plays games on their phone, might have at least played like Mario Kart, you know? This is reminding me of a copy-pasta, actually. Hang on, like, this is, I feel like I'm living this copy-pasta. I was just gonna say, it's funny that both times you've tried to start a topic about Shy Guy, it hasn't happened. Yeah, I was waiting for Shy Guy, too. Well, I, the reason why I said back to Shy Guys, because I thought it would be amusing, but I wanted to talk about Shy Guy's dream. I mean, I'm finding this copy-pasta real quick. Give me. It was not, it wasn't a vehicle to interrogate, Jai, I genuinely think that these Lego Shy Guys... This happens naturally. It's, I just, I like that you can have a little hammer bro, like, you got Shy Guy, hammer bro, I guess you can have Nabbit, if you like, a little thief rabbit. There's a toad here as well, it's cool, it's exciting times. Who, Nabbit? Nabbit is like, I think he got introduced in the Wii U one. He's like a little rabbit that wears one of those, he wears like, what's it called, the little, you know, like when you put the little handkerchief thing on your face, it's like a mask blanket. Oh, well, yeah, then, yeah, like he wears a little bandana, and he's a little rabbit who steals things. I do not recognize his character, so this is from after, yeah. It's newer, I think, yeah. Yeah, he must be, I just, I don't recognize his character. Oh, this is, this is the, it's the thing that I feel like I'm living, it's coming, it should be here by now. Stop coming. One of my favorite, one of my favorite Mario characters was always Hill. I was in Mario 64, okay. What is it normal that I don't want to watch Pirates of the Caribbean? I've never seen Pirates of the Caribbean. Seriously, I'm the only person I know who's never seen it. At college, one of my classmates refused to believe me when I told him I'd never seen it. That was 10 years ago. Honestly, it doesn't look like a movie I'd be interested in watching, and I've been deliberately reading the negative reviews about it on IMDb, rather than the positive ones. So yeah, I don't really want to watch it. All right, really had to get that off his chest. I would just go as far as they like, why do you feel it would be abnormal to not want to see a film? And then whatever his requirements are, I'd be like, this probably applies to the requirements for not being normal. I think I would just say, this is a good movie, go watch it. Well, yeah, Pirates of the Caribbean, one's super cool. Uh, was that it for Shy Guy or was it more? Um, yeah, that's fine. I'll probably be grabbing the little Lego Shy Guy. I saw a post about Shy Guy where someone says, man, how come they never changed his looks ever? And someone just said, it's because Shy Guy is perfect. He is perfect. He doesn't need any further revisions. They nailed it. They got it right the first time around. That's true. His voice is perfectly suited to the character as well. It's, it's just, what, beautiful. Like you nailed it. You did a great job. Not guilty. It's just a pleasure, but it's not super amazing. It's, it's super okay, but it's like super okay. Not just okay. So the problem with saying it's super okay is like saying it's a super five out of 10. We are like super five. If you could just help me out. What's the difference between a five out of 10 and a super five out of 10? It's like a five point two. Is that what it means? Or does it mean it's, it's firmly in the okay camp? There's no way it's moving out of it. Yeah. I can't figure out which of those he means either. Hmm. Yeah, I don't know. I know, it kind of fucks with your head a little bit. Obi-Wan Kenobi, it's super okay. It's weird to see you and McGregor back as Obi-Wan. It's weird to see him like fighting like, like, uh, original trilogy stormtroopers. It's like, ah. This is the bridge. Shouldn't these be like very bad looking CGI clone troopers? Stop it. Shouldn't this all look like a terrible green scene? Well, you don't have to. He's in a red state look bad. He's in a red state look bad. They do, but I guess I'm just like, why is everything getting compared to like, because he's saying he's fighting stormtroopers now rather than the CGI clones. It's like, it's just kind of a weird comment. I mean, a lot of it just gets compared back to the prequels and it's a weird baseline to take compared to literally anything else. I don't know. Can't we just judge it for how good it is? But, um, yeah. Real set. And I'm like, it's all. To me, it's weird that he's on it just because he's you and McGregor and he's like a big actor. And this show is so sort of like cheap and fun. What? It's so weird to say this. What is 25 million episode and it's like the height of the 10 pull launch from Disney. Like, it'd be like, what's this big name act to do it in here? It's like, we've been in the era of shoving big name actors into TV shows for ages, even smaller TV shows. What is this big name actor doing in a Star Wars multi-million dollar television show? It seems so strange to say, I don't get it. Especially when we know that he's expressed desire for a long time to play the role again. Yeah. That it feels like. And don't get me wrong. Yeah, it is trash. Like, it looks like trash all the time too, but like it shouldn't, but it does considering all of its, you know, resources. Oh, it feels like this should be like a cheaper actor. This is the new Obi-Wan, but they actually got you and McGregor. Oh, this is then it's the new Kenobi. So why not? It sounds like he's saying it was too good for this, which maybe. Yeah, I think we agree for different reasons, maybe. Azing futuristic city that walking around in and then they got a gunfight and a roof where it's like hiding behind like a bucket. Yeah. It's like a ship, by the way. That ship that was borderline comical. Riva starts doing parkour, but it's all. Yeah. Pretty. I agree, but like it's weird to agree with some of these workings, but not the conclusion, you know. Yeah. Slow and awkward. We get a math problem. Correct. But the way that you just guessed or, you know, something like that. Like the working is correct, but then the answer is wrong. I was going to say it's reverse of what we usually get. It's the, we both agree two plus two. Well, two is one plus one, but we didn't agree on two plus two is four for some reason. But, but it's super okay. And I'm fine with it. No, it's not. That was right. And all the, any of the action is so slow and awkward. That's my least favorite stuff on the show. No, I prefer a slow and awkward action. Why? Why? So do you know, do you? If we can, if we just take a second, right? You have the void in your brain and then you put one item in slow and awkward. And it's like, ain't that not something we want? And then someone goes, yeah, but look over there at the other side of the void and you, you turn your head and there's super fast, super excessive. And everyone hates it. It's way better than that though, isn't it? It's like, well, I wasn't talking about that. Yeah, like why? Because I have a feeling that's where we're going, right? But I'm just sitting there like, no, can we just talk about how slow and trash and awkward it is in this? And they're going to say like, yeah, look at this fight in the prequels. It's so fast and that's bad. Like, I don't want to see another just again, talking about proof was a shit. And then, yeah, I wonder really, why is that always the comparison? Why can it never be compared to like the, why can't it be compared to a new hope or empire? Or even return of the Jedi? Why is that? Because then we'd have to, because then this show would be really, really shit. For some, like if someone said slow and awkward, and they categorize a lot of the fights in the Kenobi show, and then Mike says, yeah, but I like slow and awkward. And he thinks to himself like empire in Bespin fight or something. I'd be like, whoa, not awkward, not awkward, not awkward. Happy to call it intimate and even slow to an extent. But this is the key difference. Jay is trying to criticize these fights. And it's like, no, I prefer slow and awkward. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're not talking about a false dichotomy stop. I don't know. Rather than the over the top shit. Yeah, I prefer this stuff. Like, especially in that second episode, they're like over the top, like a moon sized space station that can destroy entire planets. Like they're obviously talking about Mr. Far again. I know, I know. But it's like it's over the top. Is it because I don't, I just don't know about the fire with all them. I think they think that's excessive too. I wasn't over the top. That was through the middle. I think that in his videos on the phantom energy says, like the reason why that fight fails is because there's just nothing really to be caring about character wise is how he feels about it. Okay, but I mean, that's, that would be different to like any sort of thing. Yeah. That's because about character is not at speed or it's off to be fair. I don't think I agree entirely. I think there's enough to care in that fight about the livelihood of the two Jedi as well as if you really want to dig the fate of Anakin being trained by Qui-Gon is at risk. A jewel of the fates, right? But then also, I mean, the much simpler one, when Qui-Gon gets killed, like of course Obi-Wan jumping into the fight, it's like, okay, now we've ratcheted up a little bit in terms of it. It's very fine character stuff, but a really fine fight. Yeah, the fight is very neat. The setting is neat. The music is fantastic. Does anybody really disagree that like the little 10 seconds when the shield like opens and then Obi-Wan charges in and fights stuff and all that that might be like the single coolest sequence of lightsaber fight? The whole fight? I would happily put it in the running for coolest. Yeah, that was really cool. It was cool. The one when he charges in and then they do the very quick strike. I could hear the sound of the lightsabers in my head without even having to think about it. Yeah, it's really cool. Kind of bounce off of each other. Yeah, it's great. I guess I just look all right. Proof has got a lot of problems. But they do some things good. There are some good things in there. There really are. In the face of like this show, it's a little bit... A show that just is dealing so much damage to the world and the characters. This show is definitely infectious. This is a show that needs a lot of quarantine. It's like the sequels. They need to be quarantined so that they don't infect things around them. Temporal infection. Like the things that were made before, it just rubs off and damages characters that way. It's no good. It's no good. I prefer this stuff. Especially in that second episode, they're going around the alleys and it's very grimy. Like I like that stuff. I wouldn't need any action. Dexter Jester was grimy, but you don't like him. I agree. Yeah, I was going to say, I think I agree with the sentiment, but that's not at all what was being discussed at first there. And then it turned into something else entirely. It keeps shifting so much. Like they can't stay on a core point for too long. It keeps just jumping around. It's very freeform, but without a lot of... It's what it is, really. Yeah. But what was this? Well, I guess we're following a video, but I mean, the whole shy guy thing. Again, to make it to compare, because I know some people will be like, wow, you're judging them for having a casual conversation. It's like, no, no, no. So what we're talking about is like, if we're all sitting at that table in McDonald's, and then I go, man, my food isn't very hot when it just delivers. And then Rags goes, well, yeah, but it's, you know, big portions are great. As if to imply a bigger portion means it would have to be cold. And then Fringy says like, I've never liked big portions in KFC. And then it's like, wait, what does that have to do with? And then Jay says, I like it when food is cheap and awkward. Exactly. And it's just like the four of us really aren't listening to each other. We're all just sort of talking about our own subjects. It's almost like nobody is holding down the conversation. They'll let it shift to something else without going, like, no, no, you don't. The topic is a leaf in the wind. A little bit. A little bit. I think she's done. I was looking at IMDb and she's only listed as being in two episodes. So I think she's out of the show. Spoiler alert. She's in three. She's in three. Yeah. Oh, chat. You're going to love her role in episode five. It's very heartfelt. So good. Very good. She's a real hero. Oh, yeah. They could only afford her for a couple of days of the shoot. I don't know. I'm sure they could afford her for the whole series. I'm sure they could afford this actress. I think a lot of them, they've got Ewan McGregor money. I think a lot of them, the actors involved fucking want to be here. The star was named until they become disenfranchised is something to pull actors in with. Oh, absolutely. If you say if I'm an aspiring actor and Disney calls me. Disenfranchised after having. That's what I'm saying. Like he fought to stay into the franchise and then he fucking left swinging the door back and forth as he fucking ran out of there. Become Moon Knight. Become Moon Knight. And that was a great choice. I mean, it's certainly, it certainly showed off his acting chops. Well, yeah, it did. That show. Thank God he was in that show. Are we miserable? He was definitely the best part of that show. Easily a couple days of the shoot. I don't know. She's one of the best act performances on the show. She's good. That scene when she has to like, well, there's a couple of scenes when she's like, oh, shit. I got to like. Is there a problem? Up my spine. No, to be fair, he's so about the acting alone. She's she's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess he's not done with the writing, which was dumb. Of course, they don't talk about the writing. That's right. She was in Game of Thrones, which a lot of people are not fond of remembering. She was one of the worst characters in Game of Thrones. In Game of Thrones, I imagine she might be a wizard lady. But in Luther, she's not a wizard lady. Okay. No, she's not a wizard lady in Game of Thrones. She's just she's just not a lady, but she she does something. Ooh. In that show that pisses fans off indefinitely as a character. But eventually she dies. It's all good. Yay. Luther is is is a I like I like the documentary about the Protestant Reformation. No, it's no, it's not about the Luther Lutheran. But it's Luther. It's intercellable detective. I don't think I've heard of this show. You I it's a good I like it. But I haven't seen it a long time. I like the first season a lot. The the other ones are a bit hazier. Yeah, it was an attempt to launch Lex without connecting him to Superman, basically. No, you mix them up. I think it was a pretty good attempt. It was Brian Cranston. It was why everyone wants him to be fancast. Go watch Luther, everybody. Okay. You may get surprised at what you end up with, but considering the descriptions here today, but that's okay. The snotty security guards like the snotty. He's not snotty. He's doing his job. He's a security guard. Such a secure fortress for the military. Dude, I think it's a classic example of a vibe that is given. But when you look at the scene, literally, he's doing his job and he's doing it well and everyone chastises it for it. The audience had the character included. So weird. It's like you have just tried to pass a security gate. You don't have the clearance to get in. She's like, fuck you. He's like, all right, then. Off you go. Higher ranking classified person. Man, imagine he'd said, like, let's just clarify your classification verification with My Superior or something like that. Yeah, I feel like that's what he would say. He's like, let me get My Superior to deal with this, I suppose. Yeah. And then when they come down, they're like, we have no classified personnel entering the base today. So where are you coming from? Or what is your verification number? You know, there's a lot of problems with that scene, kind of rewatching it. There's a lot of things like she, first off, someone comes in, you let them in. Okay, already a problem. But also the fact that the security guard should say after the fact, like, hey, I just let someone in. They tried to pull rank and everything on me just so you know that they're here. You might want to keep an eye on them. I'm just letting you know that they've arrived. It doesn't do that. And also she says, I'm going to tell the grand inquisitor if you don't let me in. He's dead. Why would you say that? I guess he's not dead, right? Well, that's the thing, but it was a surprise to Riva. True, I guess. So that would mean that nobody on this base has yet been told the grand inquisitor is dead. Which is weird, because this is the grand inquisitor's base. Well, yeah, it's the inquisitor base. You're right. I got nothing. That's a good point. You're really weird that she'd be like, I will tell the grand inquisitor. That's what I mean. It's opportunities to have some cool writing flourishes put in, but instead it's just a series of embarrassments and we're all just like, and then we have people being like, well, no, the scene was neat because it was tension filled and it was good acting. She thought she could just walk in the front door. Yeah, which is weird, considering she should be so familiar with how everything works here. Or maybe she shouldn't. Also that they let her land at all. So there's a lot of weird things about her entire entrance plan. It's just lazy writing all over, pop to bottom. Okay, mister. She's supposed to pull rank. But then that guy says, come on into my office. You don't belong at the station and it's like this big room and then she goes into a room and then they cut to this body. He's having difficulty remembering the scene, clearly. I was able to ask this. That wasn't a room, right? He's going to get there. This is pretty stupid though, how nobody knows that. That's the thing I find interesting about this part is that we're taking a decent chunk of time to explain how dumb a thing is in the writing. Okay. Storytelling. And I wish they would do that more in this discussion, but they don't really. It's like hidden behind a box in clear view of everyone else. And she's like, I had a problem, but I took care of it. And then there's like people just like working and people coming and going, but she beat him up and then dragged him back. You're going to see our reaction to that tomorrow. Into the room that she's currently in with other people or beat him up in the room and the people sitting at the consoles 10 feet away didn't hear anything. It was really weird. It was really weird. Obi-Wan. Pretty bad. You could just say it's bad. Yeah, it spits in the face. I mean, you get it. I don't have that. Contidusian anyway. Help my father. Serve to my father in the clone wool. She talks about it as if she does not know him and has never met him. Yes. Oh, okay. Let's see what's happening here. I don't know. Oh my goodness gracious. Now, oh, I guess they went on a little adventure together. I've seen. But again, nothing matters anymore. On the Internet, I've seen a Star Wars nerd scramble to make sense of that. Okay. And I've seen some conversations where they say Princess Leia in 1977 intentionally made it seem like she didn't know who Obi-Wan was or didn't have a close affiliation with him in case the message happened to get intercepted by the Empire. She talks about the Rebel Alliance and her father's involvement of it. I don't think it makes any difference at all. It doesn't work anymore because now it's known that Leia has a connection with Obi-Wan because of this adventure. Well, no, let's ignore all of that. I'm going to use only references from that exact scene. She describes the Rebel Alliance, the help for Balogana. It wouldn't matter how friendly she is with Obi-Wan. He's a connection to it. It's official that's required to support the Rebel Alliance. They're done. It's over. Like the idea that if the Empire captured this message that they wouldn't want to know that if she would like my friend Obi-Wan help me, that's not going to change anything in terms of their approach. It's Obi-Wan is her only hope at this point. This is this is a lost ditch effort. That is what I would call a an attempt to cope. And it did not work. And don't worry. That's not Mike's argument. He's saying he read it online. He read it, yeah. Talking to him in a way where you would think that she's never met him before. Like you're calling your great uncle that you've never met. Yeah. Your great uncle knew your father years ago. I'll have to re-watch this. This sounds... This doesn't sound like enough of a discrepancy to get Ben out of shape. Well, no, it doesn't. It's not. I mean, it's a little bit fucking annoying because it changes the nature of the relationship between two main characters in that film. I don't know. It's a little bit annoying. It's not worth getting Ben out of shape over, right? Yeah. I don't agree with that. These are important characters and this is an important relationship if this show exists in canon, you know, like, and it's true. Feel like one could make that argument in response to a lot of the things they've already said. Like when he says like he's beating up that guard too close to some other guards, I'd be like, well, that's not enough to get Ben out of shape over. They just didn't hear it. Yeah. That's fine. It's not worth getting Ben out of shape because when they're in Mustapha they did the spinning with the lightsabers behind their backs. Or a backflip. It's not worth getting Ben out of shape that they fought on the floating thing in the lava while swinging from the things. It's not worth getting Ben up. This is just discussing people's emotional responses though. They agree that it's an issue. They're just like, yeah, but don't get mad about it. I don't get that impression. I think he's talking. He described it as enough of a discrepancy. Like he's so he's saying your emotional reaction should be congruent with the amount of a discrepancy it represents, which is a lot of one as far as I'm concerned. It's not minor. I just we may disagree. Like he and I might disagree on how much of a significant breach it is, I guess. So that was kind of my point with the other examples. I think I could easily argue that the ones they brought up so far are minor discrepancies that they shouldn't even be mentioning. Yeah, you know, you don't know where the line is. This is the thing. There doesn't seem to be any level of consistency here. I like to entertain the conversation about whatever you want to talk about in terms of the commentary on this. And that's why I love listening to them talk about the Picard show. It's fun as fuck to hear them talk about like, did you see that one of the aliens didn't have like the three belt buckles when that represents the like amount of time in war when he's been in war for way longer something like that. I like I think it's fine. Talk about whatever you want. I don't. But it's one of those things where it's like this show existing is just like now it's a thing that is introduced that doesn't quite line up with the original movies. But again, he's fighting so hard to like make sure that these points get brought up. Yeah. He's also you can tell he's being a little careful. He doesn't want to come across as the one that really cares. Yeah, which is fine. Because that was that was what I was about to say is I get the impression that he just cares more about about this at this point. Doesn't matter anymore. This is what Star Wars is now. Can't you say that about the entire franchise though? I mean, nah, come on. No, no entire. We need to hear that quote in totality so everyone can appreciate it. But again, this is cheap junk and it doesn't matter anymore. This is what Star Wars is now. Can't you say that about the entire franchise though? I mean, there's no point for any of it. They told the story. There's no point for any of it. Pardon me. I mean, at that point, why talk about any of it? Anything I don't know. Why talk about anything? Yeah, why talk about Star Trek? Star Trek now. Doesn't matter. And so yeah, I'm just surprised you'd roll that out as an argument. I just feel like why would you want to pull that card? That's the cut. Like everyone can pull this card whenever they want but everyone else just looks at you with like, oh, thanks bro for introducing that element. It's like, how much does this show matter really? And it's like, I don't know man. How much do you fucking shoe lace as metal? I mean, you're talking about it. You made a video about it. So it was worth enough to talk about it. If you're going to if you're going to make a video talking about a subject, you might as well like entertain these discussions. I think that's what they're there to do. So, you know, well, that's the point of the show. Yeah. They're not wrong. I mean, technically sure. But I don't know why any of us talk about anything really. I just noticed that your edit is titled but why? I was waiting for someone to pick that up. Can't die. You got to keep making Star Wars. Everybody's right. But it could be good though. It could be good. It's a really cool universe. It's worth always remembering that. There's a reason why people want more Star Wars. It's a really cool world. Is it an amber for future use? Well, if you think about it, when Obi-Wan and Darth Vader meet on the Death Star in New Hope, it's sort of just like... Oh, they met again. He's like, yeah. I was once the learner, but now I am the master. Even worse so than the last time we fought. Yeah. Ten years ago. Exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, it's a bit awkward, isn't it? But that's okay. Don't worry about it. Yeah. It's like they're going to shoot more stuff again. What else are there? They're going to shoot more stuff again where Vader... You're going to lose, yeah. It was a meme before the show started, but I think they're actually going to have a line in it. Like, you see Vader, I beat you, so you still have much to learn and I am the master. Oh, God, could you imagine if he says something like you're still not a Jedi master or something? Like the reference... You know, what would actually be better than that would be if he had a gun with an adamantium bullet and he shot Darth Vader in the head and so when he walked off, he had the memories of any of this. I want to know. Jay, Malon, Rags, do all three of you know what Friggie's referencing there? I'm sorry, I had to step out for a moment and I just got back. What was the reference? Well, before you repeat it, Malon and Jay, did you know? The adamantium bullet? I didn't put adamantium bullet shot on the head, so when you get something in this room, remember anything? For some reason, I was gonna say, I had a feeling for you and me and you were the only ones who would even know what that is. What metal, I want you to conclude that thought. I was really thinking of bad woman for some reason. Oh, definitely not bad woman. I don't think it's just because of the... You don't even know this. This choice is just... I would have thought everyone would know this because it was such a fucking meme of a film, but that's okay. I feel like I do know... Is this... Hang on, is this like X-Men or his Wolverine or something? Yes! Or you get shot in the head with the adamantium bullet? Adamantium bullet. Oh, rags do the reference then. Here's the... I remember bits... It's kind of like all of the Pirate's movies after the first. I remember certain parts, but where they go and what movie they were in, it's all kind of a blur to me at this point. Well, so the things I remember are the adamantium bullet. I remember him in front of the mirror with the course because they look awful. I remember him lighting a thing on fire and then walking away from the explosion and not looking at it because that's what cool guys do. And I remember Deadpool with no mouth. The Merc with the mouth with no mouth. A really good idea that was. That's actually a regularly popular viral tweet where they just... That's it. That's exactly what he said. Another one is... I'm assuming you've seen this one as well. Everyone typically does, but the Darwin, the character who can't be killed is killed. That's another viral tweet that always happens. Yeah, but Darwin was cool. That was really lame. I don't know why they got rid of Darwin instead of somebody else on that team. Agreed. Like you present Darwin as I adapt. It's like that seems really interesting in terms of what you can do with this character compared to I project. I don't know. I scream and that helps me fly. I like the idea of the X-Men whose power is I project. It's like, you know, my emotions, I think, like everything else is doing what I project. My emotions are to fucking everything. That's the X-Men. That's the power. Which one of the X-Men movies was where there was like a teleporting guy? That was a... Well, it depends which one. Blue or Nightcrawler. No, not Nightcrawler. He gets like his spine grabbed. That was in X-Men Origins. Yeah, that was Will I Am, right? He played... He was, and I fucking hated the way that he died. It was bullshit. Yeah, I remember that. I remember that's really stupid. It is. It is. Dumb as fuck. You know what? We're going to talk about that very briefly because I'm actually... You made me angry because you reminded me of why I hate that fucking scene. I actually liked that character. I thought he was kind of chill and charming and his power was awesome and he has really great control over it. He tried to defeat fucking Sabertooth in a fight by punching him over and over again. What are you doing? Do you know who Sabertooth is? Do you know where his powers are? Fucking idiot. And then he gets killed. As I'm just sitting here, as I'm thinking about Nightcrawler and stuff, X-Men is awesome as a core idea. I really like X-Men as they are and the variety of characters that you get with them. I've said it so many times, but I think the sort of in-universe that mutants have some sort of stigma against them, I think has influenced the writing to always have heroes that have some sort of big caveat to whatever ability they have, except for Storm. Hers is just... She's got a really good one, but there's always some sort of caveat to... Like, yeah, Nightcrawler can teleport and that's really cool, but he's a blue guy with a big tail. He can't really like... And he's got that religious component to him. Like, he's very religious. Nightcrawler's awesome. Nightcrawler is super cool. Mesquite's really cool as well. And he had rules too. One of the things I remember about Nightcrawler is there's some scene where he has to teleport him and someone else to a place that he hasn't seen. So he has to like guess and he prays... Yeah, it's like a meter in forward from him and they have to describe the room sort of or something. And he's like, yeah, because he's never teleported to somewhere that he hasn't seen previously. That was the... Oh, that was the rules for... There was like a teleport movie where Samuel L. Jackson plays a weird religious guy trying to hunt the jumper. That was the rule. And you have to be able to see the... The first citizen, yeah, jumper. Did she teleport us together? Oh my goodness. He's got the wall. Dude, jumper is the... You shot photographs? That's an E-Fat movie right there. You thought these were chat... You thought these were tangents, but they were all leading somewhere. It all brought me back. They were tangent. That's how it works. We tangent until we get back. So anyway... Ugh. I'm like, eh, eh, eh, eh. It wasn't like Obi-Wan. I was like, don't... Anakin, you know what I mean? You're right. It's a really... Nice to discrep and see. You see it. You know it's there. He's highlighting the reverse. He's saying, in A New Hope, we didn't see Obi-Wan go, Anakin, it wasn't a shock to him. And Rich is about to say, well, yeah, because they've encountered each other before. He's not freaking out A New Hope. It's because he's getting his freak out out of the way now. Why does he need a freak out? Why would he need to freak out? Yeah, like Ben Kenobi has accepted that this is what Darth Vader is. He's explicit about that. He doesn't believe this person is any longer the person he knew. Yeah. Damn. Like, you don't have to freak out. That's not how people react to seeing other people all the time. Someone said... It's not that character who freaks out. Someone said they're joking. In that case, we're joking. So it's all good. Yep, we're joking. This isn't me. We would just meme around. It's all right. It's all good. We were. We were having a good time. I really don't care anymore. It's all fine. That's the key. It doesn't matter anymore. It has a loyal fan base that just eat it up. I'm sure there are people who think this Obi-Wan show is the worst thing ever. And people... I can't imagine why that clip just made its way in there. I don't know. That must have been a glitch. I don't know. There may be something to be said that if you don't care at all about how any of it goes and you enjoy it, that could be considered a similar approach to someone who maybe says all of it's good and doesn't care about the writing quality. Maybe. There's some similarities there. I'm sure there are people who think this Obi-Wan show is the worst thing ever and people who think it's the greatest thing ever. It is bad. All right. Worst thing ever. There's no way. It's bad. That headline. So there was a hotel that was Star Wars themed and it failed. Oh, yeah. How could that possibly fail? It's interesting, isn't it? Have you seen it? On the cost like six grand a day. Yeah. Wasn't it hyper expensive? That much it cost. Yeah, but it was super expensive. And I saw someone do a tour of the room on YouTube and you like posted all the stuff really all over the place in terms of quality and design of what they're trying to do. But yeah, this thing, this whole, this big Star Wars themed hotel, because the idea is the hotel's like a ship and you're staying on the ship. Yeah. So if I... And it's armed and it's super expensive. 6K for two nights. So yeah, so you spent not helping it out. But I would imagine in terms of theming, you could do a lot of cool. Imagine if each floor was themed after a different planet or locale. So you had like a Tatooine themed, like a desert themed hotel room. And then if you went to Coruscant or something, they had like little... Those are the cheap tickets. Yeah. Wow. I mean, you could tear it if you wanted to be like that. So the most expensive one is like this opulent Naboo palace. Like lean into all of these because it seemed like in that picture there, what they had gone for was kind of the Star Wars aesthetic. Like kind of generic. Yeah. Like the sort of the vague Star Wars aesthetic of like what it looks like on an empire ship or like a... Yeah. Like what it looks like on a ship instead of leaning into the variety of Star Wars. Then again, I don't know. I guess I'm just surprised that you could ever make a themed Star Wars hotel and then it fails. But if you charge people $6,000 for two nights, I might explain it. Pretty. The more you charge, the more money you'll make. Oh, the simple economics right there. That's true, yeah. Whatever. We'll just discuss it. It has its flaws and it has some great things about it. Name three. To me, it's a guilty pleasure. Name three. It's fun and it's bad at the same time. It's cheesy. Okay. Yeah. And so now I was like, oh, I guess so. Yeah. I guess I agree. Like yeah. Because I've had fun with it. Some parts are more frustrated than I am. Just laughing my ass off. But there's been plenty of off your ass off moments. Absolutely. Oh, yeah. I don't know. Okay. I think George Lucas would be proud of it. They're really. Oh, man. I don't know. I'm not overwhelmed. I'm not overjoyed. But please, honestly, okay. He made a tag of the clothes of Phantom Manus. Who knows what he would be proud of? Of Snow. He wouldn't want to fucking with Vader. He wouldn't want to fucking with Obi-Wan. Well, then again, he did have Vader's scream note to the heavens. That's nothing compared with. No, I know. I know. I know. But he did that. I find it just curious, because really, all Disney's done is at least partially vindicate George Lucas. There's a lot. Because when it got sold, there was so much like, oh, yeah. Like it's not going to be George Lucas anymore. Whereas now there's kind of this sentiment of. Bring it back. Bring it back. Bring it back. I don't know. Well, I don't know if it's that strong. It's just more so like, perhaps I treated you too harshly, you know, like. Yeah, it's more the vibe. Yeah, definitely. That I think is if we got George's true thoughts from the tab about this show. I honestly think one of the first things he'd say is like, what do you mean? Kenobi left Tatooine. He never left Tatooine. Why would you say that? And then it's like, George, you weren't explicit enough in the movie. So he did feel like, oh, okay. He also lost his powers. Wait, why? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what people didn't like about the prequels was that I was explicit in what every character thought and felt. You're telling me I needed to be more explicit? People are crazy, George. They won't stop, George. I'm thinking about it. George would be happy. If George had Obi-Wan specifically saying, I stayed on Tatooine this whole time, Disney would just say he's lying. And have him go on his planet trotting adventure. You see, he told Luke that. That he'd been there the whole time because he wanted Luke to feel as though he'd been watching over him the whole time. Why would he want him to say, you know, oh, I haven't been here some time? That would make him feel unsafe. It makes sense. It totally makes sense. Yeah, idiot. That's why it's shocking to me that the Obi-Wan show only has two episodes left. Because I feel like not a whole lot has happened. Yes. Correct. We've got two episodes left. You're making so many good books, man. We've got one episode left. One episode left. You're fighting to get them in. But you're making- Good boy. Like, keep going. My only real big complaint, I love the fact that the show looks cheap. I love the fact that I feel bad for watching it. Like, I'm doing something wrong and I feel bad for enjoying it. I feel bad. I don't know what to say to that. If someone says I feel bad for enjoying it, I should be like, you don't need to. Okay? You don't need to feel bad for enjoying it. Maybe you should, but you don't need to. It's fine. No, yeah, I need to. It's fine. You like what you like. It's fine. Yeah, it's fine. It's fine if you like- Shame. I just like how he says like, you don't feel bad for enjoying it. Who's in the gutter now? I think the cheapness does work to the show's benefit. I think when you talk about like, this pacing issues you have with streaming shows, I think this, this type of format is relatively new with streaming services and we don't need ads. What the hell does this have to do with anything? I'm sorry. I just- Yeah. Oh god, it's like we're pretending there are no good streaming shows out. Really interesting to say relatively new because hasn't Netflix been producing originals since like 2013 at this point? Unless he's talking about like, comparing it to the, I think he sort of got on the scales, like look at the film industry. It's like, okay, fine. Yeah, it's not been going as long, but there were still, I just, I'll let him finish. I think quality's gonna go up over time. There's that anticipation that the next episode- That is an odd thing to say considering that I think there was a point when like, streaming had like a really high pedigree in terms of there was a lot of good stuff coming out and now it's starting to kind of deteriorate a bit. I mean, wait, wait, wait. I think these guys liked Squid Game. So would they consider the good ones? Would they consider the good ones to just be anomalies? And of course you have like Haunting of Hill House, Bly Manor and whatnot, you know? Yeah, like this where I just don't quite understand this lot. What else can I conclude when someone makes the point it's cheap and I feel bad for liking it and his response is, well, this is the streaming services and TV shows have just started up so, you know, it'll get better in future. It's like- I mean, I don't know, like dead of all, you know, wasn't struggling to have interesting things happen and work with no ad breaks. If anything, no ad breaks means you have a lot more freedom to structure your story without having to think about these breaks that will be forced in. Maybe you don't have to make your show that long if you can't fill it with stuff. Some people will say like, they haven't watched any of these shows, like, no, their recommendation to Hill House is why I watched it. They've done a review of Bly Manor. I'm pretty sure they've done a review of Stranger Things. Season one. I'm pretty sure- Have they talked about Squid Game? I can't remember. I'm sure that they are- As media guys, I'm sure that they are reasonably well-versed in the streaming world. Yeah, I'd assume so, yeah. But things don't really get going. Yeah, it's a con. In some cases, it's really not a con. Do you remember me? This is the most disjointed video ever, because I'm just like- Yeah. I mean, yeah, I agree with you, actually, yeah. Because Rich was saying, it's, yeah, like, they're still trying to find their feet in terms of figuring out the full amount and only get better. And then Mike's like, it's a con. What is that? Like, what is this conversation? Just took a turn. Yeah, like, I feel like that sentence has nothing to do with that other sentence. Cases it is. I think we're in the early days of, we gotta have a streaming service. Well, that's the thing is like- We're in the early days of that. We're in the, we're definitely in like the middle days now. Streaming is the- Yeah. We're there now, I think. It doesn't feel like the early days at all, does it? Let's find out how long this goes on. Well. I suppose it depends on how he, it would depend on how he's defining the ages, if you will. It feels like we are firmly in the era of this is normal streaming services and content. I feel like- Yeah, because I would have gone as far as saying we're in the streaming era. Like it was, it was jumps, not jump started, but like, I guess jump started to its main chunk by the pandemic, I think. I think Disney Plus was the mark of when it was really the streaming era. Sure. I guess I'm talking about like the obsession with making shit tons of content would have been enhanced by the lockdown. Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. And how much, we have plenty of experience in how to make TV shows anyway. How much do you have to change them to be a streaming TV show really? All you need to do is not have less restriction. Exactly, you have less restriction. You don't have to incorporate app breaks and you don't have to make it to a set time. And remember, like, you can have less episode. Chernobyl is only five episodes. It's only five. That's it. You've always been able to have as many episodes really as you want, but on streaming, yeah. It feels like the limits are, I mean, isn't Strange of Things season four, like, isn't the finale just a movie? Like they're just making a film, essentially? For like- I got a little bit confused with that. So I was curious because I've actually seen the first quote unquote half and I looked on IMDb to see the release dates for the second half and it's like, oh, it's July first. And I was like, oh, sweet. I don't actually have to wait that long. But it's two episodes. And so I think they are both just two movies that are coming out, essentially. But they categorize the TV show episodes and it's just like, okay. And that's the thing, streaming afford you a lot more freedom to do stuff like that because on TV, even if you want like a two-hour finale, you know, you still got to think about what other shows are going to be airing. You got to think about when it's airing. And of course your production timeline is a bit different for TV shows because TV shows usually start- But does that just replace the stuff you'd have to deal with with a cinema? Trying to get screens and show times and stuff like that? Well, because you're streaming, that's not a factor either because it's all direct. It's on demand, essentially. Like, yeah, you don't have to think about- There's a lot less restrictions with streaming than there are with a lot of other formats, which is why I don't understand the point. Yeah, it's not an excuse for nothing happening in your show. Write things to happen. That's your fucking job. You fuck around and you pittle and fard doing this and that and the other thing and just you don't have- No one talks to each other. You don't have conversations or any meaningful exploration of things and events. It's just- How can it simultaneously be all plot and just nothing happens? That was a bit back to the- Oh, god. It's like Red Letter Media said this about the survivor when they covered it on Best of the Worst. They said it's one of those awful movies where things- Oh, no. Maybe it was a prototype X-29A where they said it's one of those horrible movies where things are constantly happening and nothing happens. That's kind of like Kenobi. It's so much plot and you just feel like nothing is being accomplished or really done with your time. There's no real progression. It's not- I probably just brought it up a second ago. Chernobyl is a great example of- There's a very clear and serious progression of what the stakes are and the events happening and where we are during this crisis and what's being done to do it. There's a huge difference between episode one and episode three. And that's not even the end of it because you can tell that there's just- Things have happened and people do things. Stuff is occurring. Events taking place. Yeah, and wasted. And back to the whole ad things. It's not only that you don't have to play ads. You don't have to adhere to the rules of the ad givers or the sponsors or whatever. It's like, oh, you can't say fuck two times or something. That's why there's on Netflix you have all these more- I guess like more spicy comedy specials or whatever. But just more spicy stuff in general that goes a bit more out there. You couldn't do this on cable television because the advertisers would just flip their shit. So it's just a point where there's more more freedom you can have for that. So in a chat, they're a little behind. They said, Rags doesn't know that they built an actual replica of a Titanic to film Titanic. Messed the joke. That's okay. I still don't think that joke makes any sense. It does. I don't think it does. There's no joke. It really does. It is. Yes. So a joke that would work. IMO. And this is what I think you were trying to go for, but it didn't pan out. It's like if the story was about a poorly made thing from history and then you said like, and the commentary was about how poorly made it is, and you go, yeah, it's hard to believe anybody would actually make something like that. Joking that, of course, it's based on a true story. But with Titanic, it's like, oh no, that doesn't really make sense. It was a boat that was, it was a good boat. It's just like, crashed to a fucking iceberg. So I mean, it doesn't have any... No, it wasn't about the quality of the boat. It doesn't have any punch to the joke. It's just strange. The joke can be strange. That's fine. It works. Well, hey, what's funny about it? Just do me, because I'm clearly not getting it. So what's the funny? The funny is that there actually was a real Titanic that was built that sunk. A real Titanic was built. And I was like, oh, they'd never do that. But they clearly, they did. Right. I fucking love the silence. I thought I was missing a layer to it. That's all. So that was funny. Look, people who liked it, and there were many of them, it, they love it. They love it. That's cool. That's all right. Yeah, because it was a good joke. You're tied to a snap perspective, right? Yeah. You're allowed to find things and things funny. Remember, you found the Batcave joke funny. It's all pouring in. You know, one might say that it's indicative of a level of confidence in the joke to not have to tell people how confident you are in the joke. I didn't get it. He didn't get it. And that's fine. That's all right. Oh, no. Sorry. Let me clarify. I did get it. I thought I'd missed something, but I was wrong. No, no, no. That's OK. Not every joke's for everybody. But it was a good joke. Quality stuff. Good stuff. I'm glad enjoyment came from it. Yeah, a lot of enjoyment did from all kinds of places and people. I've enjoyed the results of the lack of enjoyment in front of it, so there's that. No, the results were lots of laughter from all kinds of people around the world. I agree. And for many different reasons. Lots of people loved the Titanic joke. Someone said the Batcave joke was cringey. No, it wasn't. It was great. Oh, no. Here we go again. It was incredible. It was so good. Let's watch this video. Rags in the early days of watching. Ezra Miller is Rags' hero, OK? So he'll hear no disparaging against his people. Wait, you said I'm his hero? No, he's your hero. No. Isn't he like some weird word that I can't say screaming? He's got nuts. He's crazy. He's this crazy insane weirdo who's like on the run from the police and everything. Ironically, the flash is on the run from justice. It's great. Oh, no. I thought he was a fan. Was it Meme that said he's like, he's become Reverse Flash? Like basically real life. Yeah. He's become a slow criminal instead of a quick hero. No, I mean Reverse Flash, the character. Because like that's not a great name. Yeah, because if anybody didn't know Reverse Flash is the name of a bad guy, you just be like, do you mean the Reverse Flash? Oh, that's a person. Yeah, that's the villain's name is Reverse Flash. It's the meme where they just take the thing and do the Meme version of it. I don't know. Reverse Flash. That's worse than just taking the letters and flipping them backwards. A flash? Would that be his? Alf. Let me, let me. Alf. Alf. Hisself. Hisself. Ah, Grandmaster Hisself. Hisself. That could work. He is very quick. He's very quick. He has to run backwards though. Only days of, well, you gotta have a streaming service. Well, that's the thing is like everybody. We need a product. We need product. That was going to be a movie. Ah, we'll make it long and put it on a TV show now. I just don't feel like they're panicking. I just don't think they're good at making shows. Um, also, I find it... They don't have to because everyone watches them. I guess I'm fascinated because I don't even, I guess I don't disagree with the idea that Kenobi looks like something that was smaller and it was stretched out. And he's kind of saying like, we've got to make it long. And I'm like, but why the fuck did that happen? How is it so hard to put content into this thing? Like what? Well, because we're going to be a film first and now they, and then they later decided to make it a show. But nevertheless, you would still story to tell. I think that we could cut this thing down to being a two and a half hour film that just doesn't have a lot happening in it, though, you know? It does seem like 24 episodes was common for television show seasons. Six is short. It's very short. Thank God we only have to watch six of these. I remember this. Yeah. You got to show them. Should we know? What have they done to you? What have they done to you? Chewing. Look at their mess. I cut my body. He just goes, I'm gonna get you. Oh. Oh man. Mayday 12 shows you appealed. Keep the Star Wars fans subscribed to Disney Plus. They're 38% of our subscribers. Holy shit. So the problem with this portion, I just feel like you get that you're helping it out by being like, this is fun stuff. I like it this. But it's like shit. And you've also said it's shit. You know what I mean? Like it's like, what do you mean? But you're the component that's required for this all to function. I don't understand. Scribbers. I think when they said 38% of our subscribers are Star Wars, that's probably not true. It's probably more so Marvel. But I was just struck by the thought of man, Disney don't like make a lot of original things anymore. No. Like that just really kind of hit me there. It's just like they really do not make many original. The animation studios do. But even then, like Light Year, the fifth Toy Story film. Yeah. Man, why is it that Disney, you never have Disney just make a brand new, totally new drama? Like that's something that they just haven't done in a long time. Have they? Yeah. It's just, they are, they just make a, they love their IPs in terms of how much money they can make them. That's such a big part of their business. 62 where people want to watch good shit. They made me care about the most boring character in all of Star Wars. I am all the Star Wars. It's a major achievement. In all of Star Wars. Oh no. It's just gonna, okay. That's his perspective. He finds Obi-Wan Kenobi, even the most boring character in Star Wars. Before this show. This show is what made that, not the truth anymore. Like I just, all right. This was a celebration of Obi-Wan Kenobi. This definitely didn't turn him into a horrific, terrible, stupid loser who takes innocent people as meat shields. I don't even, I really want to know why he finds himself so super boring. I just, I need something. Maybe it's just the delivery, maybe. You and McGregor's delivery? Yeah, maybe it's the scenes where he's just talking to people and he finds the delivery boring. The most boring character in all of Star Wars. I applaud this show. It's a major achievement. What are you talking about? Qui-Gon hasn't shown up yet. Obi-Wan was worse. No, Qui-Gon was more boring, I think. But I think that might be because- I think Qui-Gon doesn't have enough time to say that like Obi-Wan's got so much time. Look, this is difficult for me because I just don't find the films boring, really. So I can't give an opinion on like, oh, who's more boring out of those two because I kind of enjoy them both. So I just, you know, it's very subjective when you say something's boring. It's just like, yeah, maybe you, I guess. Sorry, this is a bit of a tension because someone said light year is bombing in Chad, so I looked it up. Apparently, light year was originally projected to grow 70 to 85 million with some estimates as high as 105 million. However, after making just 20.7 million on its first day, estimates were lower to 51 to 55 million. And- Well, it's the movie that everybody wanted? Well, it's funny because this is the first one that they've released in theaters since like, Onward. That, because everything else is going straight straight. Did Onward make money? Because I heard of it like- Well, I'm pretty sure that it didn't because it came out like right when the pandemic was sort of, when all that stuff was starting up. So like it got moved straight to, I think it moved to Disney plus like a week later. So whatever money it was going to make at the box office, just like, up and smoke. To be completely honest with you, if you had told me it's actually made 200 million, I'd have been like, oh, I don't know. I don't know if people want to see this thing. I don't know. I legit didn't know if you were going to say it made way more or way less than projected. I was just, I was hanging out every minute of the news. Well, it's an interesting one because it is toys. It is toy story adjacent. And toy story makes a lot of money. It's the reason why this film exists is because toys- Well, they should have just called it Star Wars light year and it would have made a whole lot of money. Well, I think they figured- Defended. I guess they figured that this one would do. They figured that this one would do well, I imagine. Again, they put turning red on Disney plus when it was originally going to be theatrical and they kept this one theatrical which would indicate that they thought this one would do better. And it doesn't seem to be doing that well. What are they making next? What's next up for them? Elemental. Oh, that's right. I remember seeing it's like a world where elements are alive and it had like a fire person and a water person. And that was really lame. It's like, man, I feel like you're- That does sound lame. I have no interest in that at all. Not fully capturing the nature of the elements, you know, in terms of what you could do. Maybe it'll be good. I can't remember the last- Yeah. Yeah, still hating. Electricity or? Well, I don't know. I just, yeah. I don't know. Hard? Well- Like Captain Planet? Hard. What about surprise? What like the element of surprise? It took me a while to get there, but once I got there, I was pleasantly surprised with the destination. Okay. All right, back to the video. You think? Yeah. Maybe I just like you and McGregor. Obi-Wan was a- I mean, McGregor's a fine actor. Obi-Wan was a terrible character. Oh. Okay, so that's even- That's a lot harder of a take than what we've come up with before. Obi-Wan is a terrible character. You're just wrong. Terrible. What to do with that? Yeah, I don't think he's terrible at all. What else can you do with this? Yeah, we don't get anything to specify, unfortunately, so we can't really say anything. The fact that it's said casually though, Obi-Wan is a terrible character, casually. You'd think he'd realize like, oh boy, I'm probably going to have to exploit myself for this one. Who did- Who had no personality. Why? Oh boy. I don't know. Robert, that was his personality trait. He was best friends with Anakin. No, he was. They were best friends. Did you watch those movies? They went on all sorts of adventures to catch her that we never- They didn't get along. At the beginning of Revenge of the Sith, they get along. The apt criticism would be that their relationship is thin. That's not a counter to him not having a personality, though. I suppose it's a counter to what Jay says, though. It's kind of a non-sequitur- Oh, right, because he was saying, yeah, that he has a relationship with, uh, yeah. Wow. Jay, fondly. What's up? That's just my thumbnail format, you know? You can't stop hating. I'm hilarious. How dare you? You know, since that last joke, I've started to question that. It was great, just because you didn't get it and everyone else did. That's fine. Just because you did. I thought you meant me and- How many people didn't get it? I don't know. Two. Wait, have you shown the truth? Wait, have you shown the chat the thumbnail? Oh, right. Have you shown them? It's a lie. It's a lie. What other lies have the Jedi told you? So anyway. You look- You look so mildly distraught with the revelation. Me? I know it's untrue. Right. I have nothing to worry about. Of course. Because I know that these are lies. God, I hate this movie so fucking much. By the way, you told me the prequels there, and I just like- Yeah. It feels like it's fueled his perspective on Kenobi to some degree, which is okay. Yeah. Absolutely they have. I just- Because like, yeah, I'll just say it's like Kenobi's worst of the prequels. Simple as that as far as I'm going to say. Yeah. You just wish it was done differently, right? Like Obi-Wan could have been a great character. He could have been, yeah. I mean- Well, that's why I was interested in this show because I think they had the right actor in what could have been the right part and it was like a wasted opportunity. This show was a chance to do more with them and they've kind of done that. They have done more with it. They're after- They've definitely done more with him. Yeah, they've definitely added. Yeah. They have given him additional traits, for sure. All good ones, right? Oh, totally suitable ones. Meaningful ones. Smart. Doing terribly much, but they've done a lot more with it. Yeah, I like the restraint. It's- The restraint for five minutes. Yeah. They restrain themselves for five minutes, yes. He's out of touch with being a Jedi. Why? He's trying to move like a little tiny thing. He never- He doesn't take his lightsaber out for three episodes. He doesn't do the- Oh, so that's what we're saying is restraint, I see. But what about when it doesn't make any fucking sense? Does that present any issues? It's a really weird form of restraint. And holding off on his lightsaber when he should have been taking it out. Just having him hold off on speaking the whole time. How restrained. Why? It's like failing a math test and telling your teacher that I was just being very restrained. Dude, it was so fucking restrained. I was really holding myself back. It was so restrained. They didn't even show Obi-Wan wearing clothes until episode five. Nice. It was a risky move, but they pulled it off. Force, mind trick on the stormtroopers on the bus, you know? Yeah, that was a neat- He probably knows he can't yet. He's lost. Because he knows he can't yet. Why? Why? Because he said- Why did he said this so confidently? Why are we all just decided it totally makes sense that he just can't use the force? When did this happen? I don't know. The way I remember Obi-Wan is like incredibly powerful Jedi. So I don't believe he just forgets all of his fucking force powers. Let's not forget. He's refused from accessing them by something until he isn't. Yeah. Yeah, there's no reason- Oh, it's so annoying. Truly it is. Yes, you know? Like he was in the- He probably knows he can't yet. He's lost his- It's not the droids you're looking for. He's lost his mojo. Well, yeah. Maybe he can't even do it. Why? And so, or he's so hesitant to use any force power ever. To set on a red flag. It feels- That could have been part of the reasoning, but it's not in the show as far as I know. It's not in the reasoning in the show. Would have been cool if they explored that, because him not using the force seems like a really big deal that they should explain. We talked about how it would be cool to not have him use the force, but to make it so that he can only ever use it very subtly. Yeah, he has to stay under the radar, yes. He can be doing things, but his use of the force needs to be clever and subtle. But of both. Right, right. And then so, that's some interestingness going on. Yes. I mean, again, the bar is so low in television. I'm just scrambling for anything. All that stuff is genuinely interesting. Yeah. That's what's weird, though, is the contrast. What's the fact that he's not able to use the force and the fact that- That's just genuinely interesting? And you can't even- You don't even know why? I don't think you could say that it is innately interesting. You would have to- There would have to be more than that to it. And at that point, you wouldn't even be describing the idea itself. You'd be describing the execution of the idea. You could make an interesting story, of course, about an Obi-Wan who cannot use the force. Yeah. Because of whatever reason. Absolutely. But you would have to really explain why this is the case and why this- We don't really spend any time on it. We spend very little time on it. No, because we got planets to- We do have a plot, which is crazy when the plot feels like so little has happened. We got planets to go to and layers to- get and things that happen, but nothing really happens. It's between that and the awkward cheapness. The awkward cheapness is great. It's a benefit. It's a positive. Because it's not watching them fight on Mustafar for a force fight. Because there's nothing else. Why do we keep doing that? Why do we keep going back to the Mustafar fight? So weird. Why are these our only two choices? Mm-hmm. Well, like you said earlier, what else can you do with an Obi-Wan show? This is all you could do. The only thing they could have done is what they did. What was it supposed to do? Or a six-episode season that is just a Mustafar fight. I mean, our first episode watching Kenobi definitely didn't end with us talking about potential alternatives for 20 minutes off the top of our heads. That definitely didn't happen. What else could they have done? What a spectacular show. I was thinking about that when I was watching the Northman. I was going to bring this up. I think I mentioned in my review of the Revenge of the Sith where it's like, all we need is 30 seconds of them fighting on the lava planet. And the end of the Northman, it's like perfect. It's, it's, he shows up and he's like, yeah. I don't understand what like the perfect amount of time for a fight is. I don't know that that's the thing. I think that's just, you guys have a preference and that's totally fine. A lot of people would have a preference. That's totally fine. I don't know that. There is a conversation to be had about how long, like how, how to, I guess, effectively do action in a story. And I think there's something to be said about when action is almost hitting the break, like that when action is, when action is advancing character at the same time, you're doing a really good job. And when action is just action, it's like time that's passing. But it's kind of just spectacle. There's not really much going on narratively. But at the same time, I don't know that you can say that that's necessarily a bad thing. Rather, it's an inefficient usage of time. I wonder if they'd think that the, do they think the Achilles and Hector fight was too long? Well, what about the two gills that fight in Crouch and Tigerhead and Dragon? That's quite a long fight, but I'm pretty sure everyone thinks that fight's amazing. Well, exactly. Because usually people will, if the fight's really cool, I mean, when Daredevil was fighting in the hallway, that's like a good three minutes of just him fighting guys. Would it be better if we only had 30 seconds? It's like, well, if you do that, you lose him getting tired, which is one of the fun parts of that fight is that he's getting hurt. He's getting tired. This isn't easy. Or like, again, in season three, when there's like a 12 minute long sequence of him getting out of the jail, you're advancing character. I mean, of course, you are advancing character while that's happening anyway, but you could be like, well, you could always cut it down. It's like, I guess you could. But why though, you've got to give me some reason to cut down on cool. I like cool fights, you know, I like, I like. Oh yeah. It's good to have a really well choreographed spectacle that, you know, really establishes the power level of characters and what they can do and how much punishment they can handle. It's fun to watch. The Vader Luke fight is pretty long, isn't it? Yeah, it seems like people are referencing that in chat. The best been fight for them too is quite long. Yeah. Now they are talking to each other, but again, they do talk to each other on Moots of Fire as well. So you can't, it's not great dialogue. Did you sort of say things that they should be saying? Well, they say exactly what they mean. That's the problem. Everybody says exactly what they mean in the prequels. My point of view, the Jedi are evil. Ah, it's such a bad line. You have done that yourself. The other guys like, and then they, they clang swords for like a minute and a half. And then there's some stabbings and beheadings and then it ends. Anakin wasn't nude when they were fighting though. No, they weren't, they were stripped down to their nudies. It should have been. But, but they didn't have to flip around on giant things, melting lava. Like what else can you conclude? They just keep being like, it's not the prequels though. It's like, what does that have to do with it? All right. Surfing on hovers. Oh yeah, they jump on those. It was so stupid. Oh, gosh. And so when Vader and Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan was like, oh my god, what? Vader's here? He probably doesn't even know what his suit looks like. He probably sensed that was Anakin. And he's like, oh my god, you look like a robot monster. And then Obi-Wan just is like, oh my god. And then they hit the swords. And like you said, Vader's, he doesn't, he was fighting one handed. I noticed that. And he, he did that in empire. Yeah. He fought one hand. Vader always fights one hand. What does that got to do with anything? It is cool. He fights with one hand because he's not good at it. It's because he wasn't trying to kill Luke. So he's just like, I'm Vader. I mean, killing Luke was definitely a real possibility also in that fight. Fighting one hand, it isn't like a more skillful thing or anything. Well, you have more strength than, you know, hit with two, or at least you can, you can hold more strength. That makes perfect sense to him because, you know, he's got them robot arms. Well, actually, is this right on the robot one or is it the left? Both. I think aren't they all robot arms? Yes. No, I think he has one arm remaining. He has one real arm. No, he doesn't. What are you guys talking about? In the, uh, no, because he gets one arm. Oh, yeah, because in Attack of the Clones. I am, I am distraught. Yeah, they're not true Star Wars nerds. Why, why are you distraught? I agreed with you. Why would you include yourself in the they? All right. Okay. It's obviously not you. Attack of the Clones. You're just getting chopped off in the... So, okay. So Jay, so in Attack of the Clones, he gets one arm chopped off and then in Revenge of the Sith, the other three looms get chopped off. His robot arm is there. He doesn't chop off his robot arm. There's a scene of the robot arm like pulling through the dirt to cry. Apparently I said they'd become all arms. Is that what I said? All arms instead of giving him robot feet, they just attach robot arms to the bottom. I'm more robot ape than man now. I, uh, it's okay. Now everyone knows that's good. We're all cool. How many arms does he have now? I'm confused. Seven. Okay, that's fair. Not four. All of them arms. You can't stop me. And he was doing the same thing with Obi-Wan. Not an Obi-Wan. It's like, oh my God. He doesn't feel like he has to put any effort into fighting now. Because he's Darth Vader. He really didn't. And he's going to fucking lose to him in the next episode. So that's going to last. So I guess I'll hate that or they'll love it. I don't know. I don't really know. To be honest with you, I don't know what we're going to think of it when we see it. Because I, if you would ask me without any meta knowledge of anything else while watching this show, I'd be like, if they're going to fight again, how the fuck is Vader going to lose? This guy is so powerful. And he's like dominated Obi-Wan. Yeah, you can just use the force to rip the hulls from spaceships apart. He's like. Like he cannot lose anymore. And Obi-Wan is this like shitty Jedi. Like Vader's going to have no problem with him. But somehow he's got to lose to him. That's what we're going to get. And he wasn't really trying to kill Obi-Wan. But um, and so yeah. I wasn't trying to kill him, but he fucking threw a bit too. I just hate the fact that everybody has fucking agreed apparently that being put into flames just doesn't really do much to you at all. It's like a fucking mass hysteria by now. You know, it's getting weird because like putting you in a fucking barbecue as if as though like I'll pop you here for about 20 seconds. That should annoy you. It's like, yeah. Okay. Yeah, you're correct. That doesn't annoy me. It'll annoy me. Just fighting for a minute and then him running away. I was like, that's great. I don't know. I kind of love it. I'm sorry. Yeah. I'm with you, Mike. This is, this is a triumph. That's a triumph for Star Wars. It's a triumph for Star Wars. You're breaking my heart. Considering all of the horseshit that Star Wars has been since the 90s. This is horseshit too. What do you mean? This is horseshit. It is, it is, it is equine droppings. Why have you separated out Kenobi from all the other horseshit examples? Like why is it any better than Rise of Skywalker exactly? And I imagine they'd say like, well, that movie was fucking dumb. Palpatine came back and I should be like Grand Inquisitor. I don't know. That's still pretty dumb, wasn't it? There's going to be like compare comparisons you can make, but I don't get it why the line was drawn. This is a triumph. I would say that the Mandalorian is a much better example of what you could do in this universe. What are you about to say, actually? A better example of what you can do in this universe with? This kind of budget. Hang on. That's a genuinely, the first season of that show is genuinely good. Yeah. No, it's... Because I was about to say, you know what? You might have a point that like in terms of scope, Mandalorian is smaller, you know, maybe. And then, but then he said it was good. We don't have spaceships being flipped apart by the force. We have a very unpopular take this season, when Amanda was bad. But we're so wrecked, Mahler. I believe I think it's just as badly written as anything else people would say is badly written. So I agree with you, Rags. But I just, I don't know. Because I like that he specified it because everyone seems to agree that season two is bad. And it's like season one has all the same fucking writing problems. I don't know what we're doing to separate them, but okay. The show is crap, and it's sporadically entertaining. But it is going back to the roots a little, and you could say that it's rehashing. Going back to the roots, it's on... I don't know what you mean, but that's okay. But it is going back to the roots a little, and you could say that it's rehashing, because that's your big complaint with Star Wars, is that it's creatively bankrupt. And this is proof that that's true. Because the only thing they could think of to do is we're hunting down Obi-Wan, and we got a rescue little Leia from a space prison. Is it the only thing you could have done? Yeah, didn't they say that? What else are you going to do? And wait, didn't Rich say that that was like the way to go? Yeah, that's the way to go with Leia. The fucking new hope, essentially. And it's the same thing. Yeah, that episode four is basically from on the desktop, or them on, yeah, the desktop. But there's a couple differences, I would point out, but I don't understand what you're saying. That's what it is. But I'm entertained, and I'm not sitting there miserable. It's different enough. That's another benefit to the first season of The Mandalorian, though, is that it's not... I was going to say, what if someone was like, I was entertained by Picard? How would they react to that? Just be like, well, I'm sure they'd say like, well, that's fine, that's fine. And just be like, okay, cool, I guess. What's that? Yeah, I mean, it's still a Boba Fett looking character, but it's new characters. It's just set in that world, but I want that. He's sort of a character, and he's new, but he's terrible. It's just funny, because the opening episodes were the most of him being a character, I guess, because it's just gone by the time he hit season two. Well, earlier, obviously, but still. I feel sorry for people who like Mandalorians, because the show makes them look like a bunch of fucking loser weirdos. Right. Maybe Leia and all that. Season one of The Mandalorian was better than this. Yes. But I don't know if I'm ready to wait. I don't know. Probably, maybe. The fact that we're only five episodes into this, and I'm seriously thinking about it, may mean something, but I'm not sure. I don't know. I'm really not sure. Yeah. I think it gone to my head, I would say, Mando season one's better, but... I think so. Just because it didn't destroy Obi-Wan, I guess. I think I will read attentively. It didn't destroy a bunch of legacy characters. Yeah, it didn't have too much of a... Yeah, it was Boba Fett that continued to ruin Luke Skywalker. If they do a season two, then it's going to be a memberberry nightmare world of Darth Maul's. I don't understand how this isn't already that, this memberberry's, because when there's no meaning behind all the references they throw in, it's just like, what are you here for, exactly? It's like, well, even with Greg is Obi-Wan. That's cool. Empire? He was commenting on how he likes the Stormtroopers being their impractical armor and just like, okay. Nice. Just like 1977. Everything coming back and it'll be, they'll fuck it up, is what I'm trying to say. So enjoy this. You just, did you say it was terrible already? And say that it's a guilty pleasure, but that they'll fuck it up? I don't understand. First, little chunk of Obi-Wan fun, and move on with your life. If you like Obi-Wan, you just hate this show. This show craps all over Obi-Wan. Well, they wanted to change him because they thought he was crap, or at least Rich thought Obi-Wan was crap, as he stood with the prequels. I guess if you can recontextualize everything as your superpower, then you could say, no, this show is totally great for Obi-Wan. This is just really awesome what they did for Obi-Wan and his character. It's really good guys, actually. That's, you know, they'll screw something up. Thumbs up, I guess. No, thumbs down. All the way down to the Roman Emperor. That's true. When it comes to Star Wars stuff, you're the most cynical and removed from it. Well, here's the thing, the things I tend to like with Star Wars, all the Star Wars fans hate. Star Wars. Well, I mean, do you think this show is good? Yes, this one counts, yeah. Okay, yeah. That's true. And when Star Wars fans hate something? That's like everybody hated what they did with Luke in The Last Jedi. Even though it was the most interesting thing in the movie. Is things can be interesting in shit, Jay? Why is this so hard to explain? Why do you think the interesting just equals good? It's like, well, it's interesting. That was good because it's interesting can be shit. You can have things that are safe and predictable, but they can be executed really well. Interesting does it, like subverting expectations doesn't equal good. It would be interesting for the rebels to make use of the locals on a planet to subvert the Empire. Now, the way that they do it in Return of the Jedi isn't exactly what you might consider well-executed, but it was an interesting idea. What was interesting? Lots of interesting ideas out there. I'm sure the baseline fucking idea of a Jurassic World dominion is interesting, but I can't imagine the film was well-executed. That's just my theory. Everybody was upset about that. I think there's complaints about this show too, kind of doing to Obi-Wan what they did to Luke. The Last Jedi, where he's like a loser. I was like, well, you've got to have somewhere firm to go. Oh, Jesus Christ. This is, you know, Mahler told me before we started that I needed to watch this, to be familiar with the material, all right? And this is one of the things that I wrote down on my little notepad that Jay implies you have to make characters losers so they have a place to grow. Yeah. I hate it so much. He didn't imply it. I mean, yes, he did. You just said it. I guess I shouldn't do that. I hate it so much. You just have to make characters losers if you want them to grow. Well, where else could he go? The world's your oyster with a character like that. You can take him in all kinds of directions. We even said you might be able to get away with some of the broader stuff like he doesn't engage with a Jedi order or he secludes himself. We could maybe try and write that, but that was on the outskirts of your options. You have a bazillion other options and ones that are much more likely to take place that you could engage with first, that give him new challenges and make him grow in different ways. Absolutely. Why is it? You have a practically uncountable amount of options. What he said is as baffling to me as someone being like, wait, Raimi's making a Spider-Man 4? Well, I hope he doesn't fucking care about the whole responsibility line. We've done that three films now. It's time he needs to go somewhere else. He needs to learn different things. If you want Peter to grow, the only way to do that is to tear him down in the most ridiculous way possible and turn him into a loser. It's like, why in the world would you think that this is the way to do it? And that's the justification. I just don't get it. People can grow in just sort of a gentle curve of character. Like, not everything they learn has to be because you've torn them down through some tragedy or you've made them completely incompetent and worthless. They could just, here's a new perspective. Huh, I hadn't considered that. Interesting. I'll take that into consideration as I move forward. No, none of that. Well, you don't want to just spread them away from everything. Oh, just get rid of all of his power so he can get them back for no reason. We didn't need someone new for him to go. We needed him to be in between new hope and return to the Sith. We knew we could have had some pretty good guesses of where it would be. And let's be honest, it's been 10 years. He could have already resolved that. He could already be super close to the bend from Episode 4 at this point. You have a lot of freedom. It would be nice to see him resolve that. It would be really nice to see him really well. You could. Yeah, I think I assume what Rags is saying is you have all these different options. You can pick whatever timeline you really want. I thought I mean, I wasn't disagreeing with that. No, yeah. You said like we don't have to do that. That's implicit in Rags' statement. You fucking noob. Whoa. Okay, calm down. I'm going to violate you. Yeah, I'm mental. Oh, no. Though, I guess what I can't help but think about is how much I do actually agree with Jay, the Jay from the video. And I was thinking about how that would be great to do to someone like Jean-Luc Picard, you know? There's no way really for him to go at the end of TNG. We need to bring him down. We need him to understand that he was actually wrong about a whole bunch of things. He's gone on some journeys, some lessons. I think that there's this neat little show out there. A lot of people don't know about it called Picard. Actually, there was a lot of this. A lot of people are like, oh, I don't want to see Picard being like overt or violent or weird or out of care. It's like, he's an old man. Okay, he's old. And I need you to understand that there was nowhere else they could take him while progressing the character and having him grow. I think it was the way to go with Picard, actually. So, you know how painful that is now? Yeah. He has to grow throughout the season. Or you don't have to. Or you don't have to. Or you don't have to. Or you don't have to, yeah. Oh yeah, that's the fucking thing of just like, why the hell did... What if we had a season where he wasn't growing? Does that mean everyone just dies? Can we not actually watch that show? Is that an impossibility? Yeah, what if he's just like most people who are kind of static? And it's about the challenges they face and how they overcome them with their current tool set. Like the current mindset, the current everything about them is what they have to use to their insight. I know it's typical in a story that at the end, they go, what did the character learn? But by gum, I think we can actually make a show where what they learn doesn't change them fundamentally. Yeah. You need to do something to make them interesting and having them fallen, that's interesting. And that's... Oh, God. Maybe. You know, having them stubborn in the face of harsh adversity is also interesting. That's such a basic s-take. Like, it really is. Not necessarily, it's like, you know what that reminds me of? Like, you know what would be really interesting and subversive? Is if we made like a Superman character, but he was a dick. Oh, wow. This is really interesting. Wow, yeah, that would be a good one. There's no one thought of this before? You know what's funny, especially considering the visual they're using here, is that if he said to me, like while we're talking, it's like, I'd say that the fallen hero is fundamentally interesting and it's always going to be something that we'll be enjoyable to watch or something like that. I would probably cite this as the key example of that being untrue. People did not like this. This was the mo- This is the single most damaging thing that ever happened to Star Wars. This right here. It was a bad move. This Luke character they had in TLJ. Rags? Yeah. I think it might be the prequels, actually. Just because. No, I didn't have you just- Yeah? But there was a reason, right? Not because I think they are, in terms of story, anyway, near as bad as other things that have happened since. But because they made it so that half of Star Wars didn't really adhere to the same standards as the originals, or more than half, if we include stuff from Return of the Jedi, which means that now a lot of the Star Wars fandom expects stuff that just is on par with the prequels. They expect it to be shit. Since then, a lot of Star Wars media has been shit, so fans just expect shit and they like it when it's shit. I think that the- I understand what you're saying, but I feel like the Clone Wars, or it's not the Clone Wars, the prequel, those movies spawned an entire era and renewed interest in Star Wars. That was nothing but blanket pretty much good to the franchise. Not only is that true, but a lot of people who hate the sequels, of people who are like, yeah, the prequels are actually good, though. Yeah. There's a lot of people who think that the prequels are way better than they actually are. I think a lot of those people, though, are then going like Mandalorian, though. Kenobi, Book of Boba Fett. Now they're getting it right. I think that's fair to a degree, though. So you think in the alternate universe where the prequels never happened and we went straight to the sequels and the Disney shows and stuff that all- Because I think there's a good chance that they would have hated the sequels still, but then they may have liked something like Mandalorian anyway. Even more than that, an alternate universe where the prequels are like the same as the OT in terms of quality. And in terms of like style as well, they've looked at the CGI fests. I actually thought the biggest component for people liking the Mandalorian wasn't because the prequels had put the bar low or anything, it's because the sequels were so hideously bad that something that resembles like mediocrity was actually a breath of fresh air and people loved it for that alone. Like it was the sequels that set the stage for something crappy to make it into almost God tier. Maybe. I totally understand your point, Jay. I see the line of reasoning, but I still think that the... And plus in comparing single thing to single thing, I don't know if the prequels can be considered a single thing compared to the treatment of a character in a film, but... The place this comes from is having had like two consecutive days of people saying, actually, Kenobi is good. It's very similar to the prequels, which is why it's good. I'm like, no. Yeah, it's funny to me because... It's definitely worse than the prequels, but... Yeah. Well, yeah. Like it being... Because the most common ones are like people sighting stuff from a phantom menace and attack of the clones. She's still a phantom menace. Specifically. She's still a phantom menace. Specifically. I had people sight, like, it's goofy. And Star Wars had loads of goofy stuff in action scenes before. And then sight the fucking... Headbomb. Not the stormtrooper headbomb. Oh, damn it. Um, they sighted C-3PO getting his head switched with a battle droid in the attack of the clones Jedi battle. Remember how great that scene is, gang? I don't understand how much everyone loves it. And then people also sighted a lot. People sighted the scene of Jar Jar fumbling around on the battlefield and accidentally destroying loads of battle droids and that in the Gungan battle droid battle. Star Wars has always been like this. This is what we expect from these. See, now I completely understand your perspective because, yeah, like the OT, they run out of references real fucking quick, especially if they're not allowed access to return to the Jedi, but... So what happens with the OT is they go, like, they have, like, two joke references, right? You refute them because it's probably, like, the one of Han saying, like, how are you? And you, like, bring up the points. It's like that actually still works as a scene, though it doesn't compromise the scene. Because the Empire responds as they should respond. And that sounds like something Han Solo would say in that situation. And he clearly knows that he fucked up once he says it. It's humorous and it fits everything in the world. Like, it's... No one's ruined! Hooray! And then after that, they'll just bring up, like, bad writing. Like, just, like, hey, it's... Isn't it bad how, like, you know... Or, like, just even perceive bad writing. So they're like, isn't it bad how Luke is able to pilot an X-wing expertly on his first go, even though there are several references to him being a successful, like, an experienced pilot in the film? But, like, they don't, they ignore those, right? Oh, isn't it stupid, like, that that happens? How come that's not the same? And, like, okay, so... Just before now, you were defending, like, humor. Like, Star Wars has always been goofy and silly, and it doesn't need to take itself, like, that seriously. How is that, like, goofy and silly rather than just, like, something not being written that well? It's because it's not. It's not goofy and silly. It's just poor writing. And why are you... If they were right. Something that you think would be silly or not good to prove the point when I thought the whole point was that it's okay for it to be silly and funny or... The point is, by that point, they've taken it to a place of, like, they've revealed that through colors and saying... Ah, bastards. Then they're not arguing that, like, it's okay for Star Wars to, like, just be goofy and silly. Like, that's the point of Star Wars. It's not a serious thing. It's just goofy and dumb. They've moved beyond that to just saying, okay, I don't mind that writing. That's the point at that point. I don't mind when there are problems in it. And that's fine. But just, like, admit that. Well, there's no problems. Yeah, because people sure as hell, they don't bring up all the dark moments and serious moments tonally. Star Wars, no. Because, like, in no way is, like, a writing issue. I really wish I had a better... Like, because that was another example I remember being brought up that was, like, that's a great concrete example of, like, that clearly is not, like, goofy in tone. It doesn't improve the story in any way. You have just highlighted a problem with the writing. And it's like, you're just going, I don't care that it's bad. I don't care that this is an issue. It's like, there's no way that anyone believes that that problem made the film better. They're just saying that they don't care. We're just fine. Yeah. But shut up. Like, yeah, just admit it. If there's been problems in the past, then fuck it. It's all on the table. It's all okay. Everything's fine. That's why Ryan Johnson stole my idea and didn't give me any credit for it. But it's also what all the Star Wars fans seem to hate. So I get the bitching about it. Yeah. I think they're finding a common ground here where... They're a common ground. Common ground. Luke Skywalker never fought with a lightsaber in The Last Jedi, and then the sequel trilogy. Just a projection. You can have a whole movie where Luke Skywalker doesn't fight with a lightsaber, and it's still be good, okay? That's not the fucking problem. The whole projection of him did. Yeah, he could. A new hope. A new hope didn't become... That's where... So Obi-Wan is both fallen and kind of pathetic, but at the same time, he's still swinging a saber around and chopping up Stormtroopers. He's trying to get his... I don't... I don't even know what... Okay. At least he's chopping down Stormtroopers, everybody. Okay. I thought that was... Is Jay gonna push back on that? Because I thought that would be something Jay wouldn't like. Obi-Wan got a mojo back. That would be a better name for the series, how Obi-Wan got his mojo back. Yeah, so they found that line. They're like, fans want to see Luke Skywalker chop up Stormtroopers and save the day, not be a ghost. You can't be a boring, emotionless motherfucker either. Yes, exactly. I don't have any specific predictions. Oh, I guess U.T. thinks that that's what Obi-Wan is. A boring, emotionless motherfucker. Well, I think he's saying that that's actually something he enjoyed about Luke, that the fans are upset they didn't see Luke destroying things. And so now we've got a compromise where Obi-Wan is the sad, annoying piece of shit loser, but also he's still chopping up some stuff. So that means everyone's pleased now. Except us. On a little island of sanity. Normally, there's so little story to the show that I don't really care. That's why I mean, that's kind of why it works in a way. It's just simple fun. It works because it doesn't have a story. It's not trying to do too much. It's not trying to do too much. I would say it's trying to do a lot. It thinks it's very weighty and hefty. Like, what was that video that was on the EFAP suggestion that it's a masterclass in trauma? Oh, gosh. Because you got to remember, people simultaneously defend Star Wars, any problem you point out with Bonk on the head. But these people will turn around and praise any perceived effort by Star Wars to get really deep. And you can't have it both ways. You've got to pick one. Are we going to take it seriously, or are we going to be goofing and gaffing? And we're just sitting here saying it can have both tones. And in the case of this show, you can absolutely have both of them. It's a balance. But in this case, I would say that Obi-Wan's object. Deborah Chow said that it was going to be like Joker and Logan. What the hell? We're looking back on that. Holy fuck. It's worth noting. Because the context of the quote is, oh, yeah. No, it's like those in that you're focusing on one character and expanding and giving them the time they need. That reads to me like a real attempt to do an introspective story. If this, like what it seems like is that the impression the riches come away with is, oh, yeah, it's meant to be like some goofy bullshit. When I bet you that's not what they intended. Oh, you are absolutely right. Like all of the quote unquote praise in terms of their enjoyment on an emotional level that they've given. I think the writers would be distraught hearing this. I think they would be. I think it's some, I kind of like to think about that when people defend something by saying it's shit dumb, you know, sludge. Well, the writers are standing there going. The writers are standing there in the corner. No, it's the, it's the, in Simpsons, the Native American man. He turns around and the tear goes down. Oh, yeah. Like the commercial. It's cheek. That is assuming that they care. Like the writers care about this. I think they care. I do think they care. I just don't think they're very good at their job. Well, I think it's, I would actually go as far as saying, I think they're excellent at their job when they care about the actual, uh, like IP being destroyed. Oh, okay. Because the logic here is that Star Wars is done, but the weird part is like, yeah, but Star Trek is done and you're still going on that. So it must be like this difference in approach of there are a lot of Star Wars fans who are waiting for them to rip apart Kenobi the same way they rip apart Picard. And that's why this video had so many requests for coverage because it's just like this came out of fucking nowhere. But for Red Light of Media, this didn't come out of nowhere at all. They were just like, yeah, Star Wars is kind of shit. Let's check this show out. Oh, I enjoy like practical sets and lightsabers cutting down some stormtroopers. This is okay. And then they comment on all the stupid shit and they're like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a, it's a weird one. It's just like, but they don't like it. And they seem to be vaguely aware of some of the, the canon breaks. And to be fair, I've cut a lot out of this supercut doesn't include a lot of the complaints they had that we all share. But the thing is those are taken into consideration. Then he says, you know, the show is super okay. It's a triumph, which is so odd. But there we are. Triumph. So yeah, to clarify, I don't think they care about Star Wars as much as they do Star Trek, but I do think they would care about the writers hearing that they thought their show was good because of how stupid and fun it is. You know what I mean? Like, I think the writers would be like, oh. Yeah. Wait, did you say stupid? Oh, okay. Stupid? Yeah, no, that's not, not, oh. Whatever you do, don't turn around. It doesn't make it very engaging. Like, I wonder what's going to happen next. I don't really care. I'll continue watching it. It's watchable. It's super okay. Yeah. It's super bad. Check it out, everybody. It's super okay. I don't know. For whatever reason, I'm just, I just, I'm not, I don't know that's, I certainly don't think that's what Jay thinks. Well, he just, how could you not say? Like, he just feels awkward in this one because he's clearly, if he was, if he was with two people who absolutely shat on this show, he would be slightly pulling away from that perspective. He would be like, yeah, it is terrible, but like it's not the worst thing ever. That's probably what he would be saying. Yeah. It's just a matter of trying to provide some level of balance, but I just don't think he wanted to go as far as pushing too far away from the, what was the current vibe, which was that it was okay. Yeah, it's just, he is outnumbered in terms of his perspective on this one. And I think if you want to maintain a sort of the tone of the show. Well, Jan, I think a lot of people would have expected that Rich and Mike would have hated it more than Jay. So it's even more bizarre when you think about it that way. Jay probably was surprised with their takes on it. That's weird. This is weird. Yeah, I get to hear that. He comes just to the, man, that was shit, right? It's like, what are you talking about? I've seen a lot of people saying like, oh my God, like why, why would I ever watch these guys? I'm just like, it's just, it's just the one off. Okay. Our lima fun. They're legitimately very entertaining. I really love best of the worst and some of the reviews that they do are really neat to listen to. Like the Plinkett reviews, they're like really good. It's worth a reverie there. We covered one on pre-fap and it was, well, I mean, that was definitely, that was definitely one of the better videos that we got to talk about on the E-Fap. Yeah, easily. He got things right and wrong. So that was quite something. I find the way they talk about movies to be super interesting a lot of the time. I find them really funny. Best of the worst is still pretty much flawless. I don't think there's ever been a bad best of the worst. No, I think they're always entertaining. And then I was just thinking about it and it's like, it's even way more than a decade, right? Like how long have they been entertaining me? It's like, I think it has been, because 20, when did Prometheus come out? That was 10 years ago, right? 2012. Yeah. Because it was the Prometheus review that I remember. So it must have been before then. I don't know how long ago it was that they released the prequel reviews, but I was watching them when they came out. So yeah, I don't know. They're an entertaining lot. I just think that they clearly just didn't give enough of a fuck about this. Yeah, that would be the impression is that how much do they really care about Star Wars now, you know? No, it's fine. If you don't care, that's totally fine. It's just, yeah. The comment section is filled with people basically saying like it's so clear that they are essentially nihilistic about media now and that they're enjoying shit that's terrible because of Picard. It's like, yeah. It seems like everybody understands that. Picard broke them. Yeah, and everyone seems to understand. Kenobi is shit. It's weird that they've said what they've said, but that we can account for it with their coverage of Picard and it's like, okay. Yeah, like this is one of the top colors. I feel like Rich's main argument in favor of the show can be condensed down to compared to a rancid puddle of diarrhea. It's really not that bad, which I guess sums it up. Yeah, I suppose. But yeah, that's it. We've covered, we covered Red Letter Media for the second time. Dude, Ray. I believe it. I did for the first time, liar. Feels like the very first time for me. Wow. Yeah, Theo was on the first run around on the, was our evangelist coverage. You popped your Red Letter Media apricot. And it, oh, it took us almost exactly five hours. Nice. Wow. All right. Well, what's the next video we're covering? I don't know. They call it Super Chance. That's the name of the book. Yeah, Super Chance. Is that the channel or? I think it's the channel and the video. And it's basically like, watch together. It's just totally broken. I'm going to have to read out what it says. It's a text video. Man, okay. Oh, watch to get. Oh, okay. Well, it seems it worked for me. I guess it's on your end. Yeah, just me. That's the cast. I suppose weird stuff happens, you know. That's okay. Dranger things have indeed happened. Oh, that's like the show. Oh, yeah. Well, I would like to give an opportunity, just in case. Jay, Mattle, if either of you would like to run away, I think now is a perfect opportunity, too, because it's been a long time. I wouldn't blame you. I wouldn't say horrible things about you once you leave or anything. Why not? Why not? What changed? I have no answer for that. No, that's okay. Two minutes and then come back. If anyone leaves a Super Chat, say about how amazing I am. You don't need to save it for me, because I get those all the time. All right. Yeah, people tell me a lot about my jokes or funny all the time. They say, hey, it was a really good joke. Yeah, that's a tending one. It was awesome. It was really good. Yeah. It's really good. It's a tending failure. Oh, except it wasn't. It was great. Well, yeah. If I was gone, when I said I was gone, you wouldn't have heard me. Oh, man. You could have yelled it. I'm upset. I'm playing chess and I made a big mistake. I'm not happy about it. I told you not to do that. Make mistakes or play chess. I told you not to make mistakes. Oh, Christ. It was the one thing Fringy didn't want to do. That one makes me laugh. That was a blunder. That one. Oh, a blunder. Oh, a blunder, yeah. A blunder? Yes. Oh, a blunder, blunder. I feel like I should be a lot better at chess. I remember I played at school and I wasn't particularly great at it. I remember there was a tournament, there was a little chess tournament, but there were five people on our team and there were only four trophies. I was the worst performer on the team, so I didn't get a trophy when we won. Well, in a similar note, when I was in Boy Scouts, I attended a statewide chess tournament and I got fourth place, which is neat. That's really cool. I guess that's a similar story, but it's a story of triumph. It's a story of triumph and failure, really. Honestly, I have a great question. That's the origin of the super villain. Fringy becomes a chess themed villain. Why do you need a trophy? Well, I don't need a trophy. I guess it's more so that it's kind of funny that there would be five of us competing. But if we won, the person who did the worst on the team wouldn't get a trophy. Why would you bring five people? Why wouldn't you just bring four? Probably to fucking keep people on their toes. Like, you might be the only one leaving. Oh, yeah, right. That's a good incentive. You better form. You don't want to be the one loser who goes home without a trophy. That's a fair point, honestly. I don't want that to be me. I'm going to study chess. Fringy's childhood depression. I've mostly gotten over it. Mostly, mostly. All the way there yet. Destroy that guy. He's going to become the castler or something like that. And he'll be a... Well, what about the bishop? And the whole idea is that he expects people to come at him from like different devious plans from the side. But then the heroes realize at the end if we just go at him head on, he'll never expect it. Well, unfortunately, Mahler. The bishop is already taken. That's a Monty Python sketch. You remember the bishop? You can get away with another one. I suppose it's Kirina. You have two bishops. Oh, that could be his name. Two bishops, because each side has two bishops. And you would have to... Like, he's about to win. Fringy, he's like seconds away. And he says, like, checkmate. And then someone else says, it's just check. And shoots him. Played creation said, gay, Fringy, a checkered post. Oh, that's pretty good. These stories are terrible. Wow. I think they're incredible. Fringy can be put in this meme. It's like, this is where I would put my chest trophy if I would have got one. It's a permanently empty space. And the best part is I dust it. I make sure that it's nice and clean always, perpetually. It's just in that one train that I finally play in the trophy. I have a dream when I wake up and then I just look and the trophy's there. And then it's like, it's a nightmare. Going down the lightning outside and you just start crying. Bring us to trophies, what Obi-Wan should have been to like the Jedi or something like that. Like the Force. I don't follow. He needs to have like, you're constantly chasing the trophy. And so it consumes kind of your life and you fall into a deep depression about it. I say. And so Obi-Wan, he's like lost his connection to the Force or something. We still haven't quite figured it out. And so he's focused and like he has nightmares about like Anakin and the Force and stuff. And then instead of Qui-Gon coming to him in episode six, it is just like the King that you lost. It is specifically the King that got checkmated in that game. And he's like, it's not your fault. Well, it was. It was entirely your fault. But it's okay. You win a few, you lose a few, but to Qui-Gon and Gekko, you keep on fighting. Well, to Qui-Gon in totality, you win a few, you lose a few, you keep on fighting. And then he says, it's okay. Don't hate yourself. You can get a trophy one day. Just practice. And then he disappears. Speaking of which, I've beaten this person by default. They just stopped playing. So I get. Nice. You win. See, never give up. The other person might quit. Well, to not only, because there's a resign button right there. If you really want to get out to, you know. Maybe he was watching EFAP. And he was like, oh my. He heard my story. He heard my story and he decided to grant me this mercy. Yeah. I can't give you a trophy, but I can give you this win. I can give you this double year. It's yours. So shall I read out the first one? Very well. Here I go. Digimon of the day is Diaboromon. Diaboromon? Is this fun, lad? Diaboromon. Oh my goodness. Oh, is that doing a kid show? Why does he have a penis? I think that's a tail. Oh, no. Is it? You're allowed to have a penis and be in a kid's show. That's true. Most people in kid shows probably do have a penis. That's true. That's where we're going. Like, well, Barney has a. Or no, he's got a cloaca, right? Because he's a dinosaur. So you wouldn't really see it. Unless he got excited, I suppose. I'm going to show that's one of those things that we don't know about dinosaurs. Because there's not, like, fossilized dinococ. Well, I don't, first off, I don't know how hard this is. Second off, you could probably come to some pretty educated conclusions based off of evolutionary history and the pathways of a lot of genetic material. Sure, but it is all still speculation rather than stuff we know. Yeah, I'm sure there's probably, it is not a first certainty. But I have a feeling that there's probably a lot of good research and knowledge that goes into some of this kind of stuff. Like, maybe they were this color and this is what their diet probably was. And here's how tall they were. Like, you could learn a lot about critters from, you know, the stuff they leave behind. The thing that's just like making me say this is like the feathers or no feathers controversy. Is that a controversy? Is it a controversy? I thought it was pretty established that they did, to some degree, have essentially proto feathers. Yeah. Which led into the evolution of the smaller ones eventually becoming birds. Maybe. Or you say maybe like the pterosaurs had feathers and some of the dinosaurs didn't? Or... Because I'm pretty sure that a lot of them kind of did. They had like beakish mouths and some feathery stuff. I think they look cooler with feathers. Is that controversial? I think that the velociraptors would hear this. Look way cooler than the Jurassic Park. I think it depends on the arrangement of feathers. Yeah, they're cool as the classical depiction. It's pretty cool and neat. But I think that it depends on how the feathers are arranged because you can make things adorable and cute with feathers. But also you could make like an archaeopteryx looking motherfucker and he's just got all these like I'm going to swoop in and get you or like maybe the... Yeah, I feel like feathers can go either way in terms of intimidation. Because there are like eagles and things today that are very intimidating and they're covered with... Oh yeah, eagles are fun birds. Eagles are coolest, fuck. Eagles are very cool. Birds of prey are awesome. Not the film. The vultures are massive. What? You didn't like birds of prey? The fantabulous emancipation of one harlequin? I didn't like birds of prey and the fantabulous emancipation of one harlequin. Oh my goodness. One day our EFAP movies on that will come out. One day. One day. Castaway is a cool... Yeah, Castaway is awesome. Um, I uh, the super cool little credits. An RGB urinal? Razor. Razor gaming? RGB. Oh, you sneaky horsey. I see what you're trying to do. Okay, I'm just going to read the next one. Yep, go ahead. Oh yeah, that's right. Let's get to the second super chat. First live EFAP since 160. I've missed catching these live. High rags. Oh, hello there. Thanks for stopping by. I hope you enjoyed it. 160. That's only, what, like 35 times four ago? I hope they didn't leave because they hated 160 and they came back to this one just before we had changed our ways. Yeah, and they ended up hating this one too. I don't even know what I was trying to figure out with those numbers. It's been a while. That's all. How long ago it's been? Yeah, I don't know what metric I was actually trying to use. I think my brain ran away. One a week maybe is what you would have guesstimated. It's four? I don't think that would have been one a week, would it? No, wait, one a month. That'll be per month. No, wait. Too many numbers. They've clashed together and they've all melted. Yeah. What were you using? I guess I'll never know because I don't have the answer. Strange, strange, strange, strange. Just pretend they were sheep and then count them. Yes. Today's animal of the day is the mandrill. I think people have asked us about this one before. The mandrill. Oh, these boys. Yeah, let me get you a picture here. You've seen these before. Let me get you an image here of a mandrill. Ah, those guys. Well, bring it. We need animal toys. Oh, one of those. Look at him. I think they're cool, yeah. Well, I wouldn't mind having a chat with him. Just so we're clear, this is their good side. I mean, just imagine having a big ass, right? Oh, they got the butt. Yeah, but it's all the better to sit down with. Yeah, I just like it. Look, I'm going to pick. What the fuck is happening here? My God, what the hell? I like how he's turning around to look at me. Yeah, he's like, what are you looking at? He's like, I don't know. What am I looking at? What's happening back there? His tail looks like bad dragon made it. Kind of. So anyway, finally watched the new Harry Potter movie and it was terrible. Matt Mickelson was good as always and Dan Fogelid too, but everything else was bad. Bad. I like how they said the new Harry Potter movie. Is that the Dumbledore one? Like the secrets of Dumbledore? So were the first two any good? Did anyone watch them? I'm pretty sure people don't like them very much. I tried to watch the first one and I fell asleep halfway through. Are you sure somebody didn't place a spell on you to make you sleep? That happened to me with three movies. The other two are Black Widow and Black Panther. Oh no. You don't like black people. Minority lead movies make you sleep. Speaking of Black Widow, I wonder what the latest Medea movie is. The next one says Sup Ra here. This is the first time I've caught one of these live since Joker came out. I'm so old now. Ra sent that? I always wonder if there's Ra impersonators. I'll never know if it's the true Ra. If you are the true Ra. I don't, I don't feel. We miss you. I don't feel like something Ra would say. I was going to say this. I don't feel like, I don't, I don't believe that Ra could compose a sentence that hinged. It was going to say it's very hinged, yeah. Yeah. Ra has not mellowed out nor will he ever. That sounds like Ra here just got back from rehab. That I would believe. If it would require rehab for me to believe that he's kind of comes across as a normal person. If you're a Ra, if you want to be a Ra impersonator, beginning with I just got back from rehab, probably a good strategy to get us to believe it. Although not that we've said that. We'll con on to you because we're a smart, we're a smart lot, you know. Think of something equivalent that has the same effect or just be like unhinged. Those are the two ways to go. Mel, you got your, your pokedex googling skills ready? Oh, shit. Hang on. Let me set up my ready. Oh, boy. Oh, okay. I feel if Mel's here, we should let him do it. It's his favorite thing. Oh, it's the only thing I have, Rags. Come on, man. Oh, I, because I always thought I was the one who did it be on the count of me being always the one who does it. I didn't know he had an interest. Rags, if you remember, actually, Mel was the first one to do it. And then whenever he's not here, you were doing it. Your memory is shit, but that's okay because I'm here. They make it. Oh, okay. Yeah, definitely. With your enormous brain. Look at your brain. Look at your brain. Look at your brain. It's so big. Maybe it's mostly fur though. Destroy all humans, but with red eyes. I think they throw humans two. Crypto was Superman's dog, right? No, no, no. Crypto with a C. Crypto is not to be confused with crypto cryptocurrency. Crypto is 137. That's what Boogie invested in, and he lost his money. Well, look, all right. If you invested anything right now, you're probably not doing great. I feel like humans would have lost it. That was a cool game. I haven't visited crypto subreddits, but I imagine it's just chaos. And Tim did. Well, because I'm pretty sure that I think Bitcoin is like a 50. Yeah, so Bitcoin. Jesus Christ. Is Bitcoin a cryptocurrency? Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency. Yes, because I just mean cryptocurrency. I just don't. I know so little about crypto. Well, yeah. So Bitcoin is the biggest one by market capitalization and then a theory in a second. And then I forget after that. And yeah, because right now, year to date, Bitcoin is down 58 percent. Now, to be fair, the S&P I think year to date is down about 25 percent, but 52 is much bigger than 25 percent. It's worse than that. It's just that everybody's losing money. Misery loves company. Misery does love company. That's why we watch Kenobi together. Well, I would watch Kenobi. Oh my God. Hell no, I would not watch this. I said that's a show that I would totally have watched like if there was nothing, even if there was no one to talk to and no like internet culture to sort of keep track of. I don't know how long I would have lasted though. I think I would have to contrive. I think I would need to contrive like an imaginary friend to help me get through it. I need to get a little Hobbes and then pretend that he's real. No, he is real, actually. I'll get Hobbes. He can watch it with me and make many astute observations about. I just about to answer your question. You would have watched two episodes and then quit. There's a good chance would have been like in the second episode, you'd be like, fuck this, I'm out. I wonder if my curiosity for what they're doing with him would actually overcome it, though. I don't know. But I think I would get more and more frustrated. I need I'd be like, I got to talk to somebody about this. This is absurd. What about Felix? Felix is alive. Hobbes is imaginary, but he's alive to Calvin. So I don't know. Fair enough. I do like what Bill Waddison. I am pretty sure I talked about this like two days ago, but he presented it as people would ask him. So is Hobbes real? Like, is he actually real? And I think the answer that you always gave is he's real to Calvin. Like how Calvin sees him is how he sees him and how everybody else sees Hobbes is how they see him. It's such a great example of, um, I mean, yeah, because I mean, of course, they're both fictional characters, but even in their own world, Calvin like Hobbes doesn't, Hobbes is imaginary, but he feels so real. I mean, he's so real to Calvin and is meaningful to Calvin. He might as well be real for all that, you know, the influence that people have on other people. I again, your obligatory Calvin and Hobbes is fantastic. Calvin and Hobbes is such a good comic. I don't know what the fuck is going on. It's because you don't know references to anything. Have you never heard Calvin and Hobbes is? No, not really. Okay, I'll just, I'll just post a little picture of Calvin and Hobbes and maybe, maybe you'll recognize them from having seen them in a, in a, in a newspaper. You know, Jay, when they say touch grass, they don't mean they don't mean only touch grass. Like there are nerdy of things you can do in one. I don't think I recognize that. You don't. Okay. So did you ever, you read comics and I said, I do recognize that. Oh, you do. Right. Yeah. But also, no, I've never read a comic in a newspaper on Sunday or any other day. Did they have newspapers when you were a kid? That's right. You did or you didn't? I didn't. I've never touched a newspaper. Are you serious? Did you read a cave? So the thing with me was, I don't know how it was, I don't know how it works over in America or in the UK, but one thing they had in the Sunday newspaper that had like a little, well, so they did have the funnies in like all of the every week, but there was this little, it was like a four to six page one that was specifically like, yeah, this is for the kids to read and it would have like Simpsons wands, Calvin and Hobbes, the far side, a whole bunch of like comic strips. So that would be the one that I would read on Sunday. That was the only thing I read in the newspaper. I would also, We did something similar. Every day there would be like a, like a two pages of comics in a particular section and they'd be in black and white. But on Sunday, there was the dedicated color, all of the comics that you could read longer. Yeah. As well as all the little games. Yeah. Yeah. I would look forward to the crossword puzzle was there and the horoscopes and all that weird shit. All of that stuff. I would also like to see the updated list of movies and theater. And then as long as I can make a good argument, we'd be going that that week. That means, oh, yeah. Movie listings are on the back of that same section during the work day. Yeah. They're like, oh, yeah. Cause you would look at the fucking newspaper to find out what the show time. I mean, absolutely. Yeah. You can see right now. Jay is like, how old are you guys? Jay is like, yeah. We're not. This is recent memory. Yeah. My dad bought newspapers for like the, until I was like five or six. And it never occurred to me to be like, oh man, I wonder if there's anything fun in there for me. The thing is, he was just struck me like, that's reading that or touching that seems like the epitome of boredom. I knew that there was fun stuff in there because I was aware of the fun comics and little puzzles. And man, something like you would get to read those. I have no like little children's magazines and stuff with like kids. Highlights? I don't think I ever know as much. I think I, I occasionally got like actual flat out video game magazines because I look like the Hot Wheels magazine and it would come with a little free car on the front of it. I remember there was one that I got. And I'm pretty sure I still have it somewhere where it was, it was like a little booklet that was just Nintendo Wii, all of the fun stuff coming to like Nintendo Wii during the first two years of its life. And I remember like reading about Super Smash Brothers Brawl. I got really hyped for Brawl. That was a really hype game for me. I'd be like looking at trailers on early pro like 2006, 2007 YouTube. Oh dude, me and a friend of mine were obsessed with Melee to the point where we like play it pretty much all the time if we had like sleepovers and stuff. And so when Brawl came out we were both just like, can we be ready for something like this? What is this going to do? I don't know. What is it going to do? I, I, I think I got a month after it came out but because I was like, I was super duper because I didn't used to buy games at launch. I'd get them as early as reasonable back then which could often mean like a couple of weeks or a month or even like a year. Did you never go to Midnight Releases? Do you have those? Well, later on I did but like when I was younger you didn't really pay as much attention to release dates. I remember Grand Theft Auto V. I went to the Grand Theft Auto V Midnight Launch and I went to the, fuck me, this one's a little bit regretful. I went to the Destiny Midnight Launch. I bought the $200 special edition version of that game with a little ghost figure. I went to that. That was the last one I went to. I got burnt hard by Destiny. That game, that game burned me. That put me off of like pre-orders and that kind of stuff in general. Grand Theft Auto V was cool as fuck. I remember because I bought it and then I stayed up all night and played it and I'm pretty sure I, yeah, I basically, I played that for like every waking hour that was available to me for like the next week and a half. Grand Theft Auto V is a cool game. I know that like in the 10 years afterward with so much saturation of Grand Theft Auto V, like that game was fucking hype. I remember every single story through. I was like, this is fun. I really like this. Wasn't it like Skyrim is the other one that got that kind of reputation where it's saturation across multiple generations and consoles. And then maybe further down the tier list is something like Resident Evil 4 where it's like that keeps getting re-released as well across like all different consoles. The thing is now, because Skyrim is like 11 years old now, Grand Theft Auto V next year will be 10 years old. This is far and away, the longest gap between Grand Theft Auto games because we got Red Dead Redemption 2. But that was nearly five. That was four years ago, nearly. That came out in 2018. They just don't, they don't need to, they probably will make Grand Theft Auto 6, but they don't need to. GTA Online makes them so much money, which is unfortunate because I don't really care for GTA Online. I like GTA 4 online. Because, oh man, that was one of my, that was a vivid memory. I remember when I finally got like Wi-Fi and Online set up for my PlayStation 3. And I think the first game that I played for that was, because I played Xbox Live through Friends and stuff. But then when I got it set up in PS3 with Grand Theft Auto V, Grand Theft Auto 4, it was Rockets on, Rockets on the airport. That was such a fun experience. God damn, I remember that vividly, how cool it was playing online, blowing everybody up with rocket launches, like in Liberty City. And then in free roam, when you just encounter people and get into fights, Grand Theft Auto 4 had really fun online. And unlike Grand Theft Auto 5, it wasn't super monetized so heavily that it was, yeah, I don't know. I only played GTA Online like for five, maybe a week or two, through massive connectivity issues. And then it just, I don't know, the appeal never stuck for me. It just wasn't, you know. I've always been kind of bitter at Grand Theft Auto Online for five, because after beating five, and I realized that there's just not in-game content, like they're, it just doesn't, it's not there. You just, you kind of just go around, you could do a few things, but you could still play. And that was it. That was end game. Once you're done with a story mission in five, like you need to go to online and pay us money. I think it's interesting you say that, because an observation that a lot of people make is Grand Theft Auto 5 or Grand Theft Auto 4, there's lots of ways to make money, but there's not a lot of things to spend it on. Grand Theft Auto 5 has a lot of things that you can buy, but not a lot of ways to make money. I'm pretty sure that now someone could correct me, correct me. Yeah, I think you know what I'm talking about. There's a property in the game that I think costs $150 million, is like a tennis court or something. It's the biggest property you can get in the game. I'm pretty sure that it's basically feasibly impossible to make that much money, unless before doing the Lester missions, you knew where to put your money in the game stock market to make, maximize your earnings when you did the assassination missions for Lester. I think if you knew ahead of time, you could make that money. But if you didn't, then good luck. There is a point in the game that you have the opportunity to invest in stock markets and stuff. And if you don't do it then, you can't make that money ever again. And you need that money in order to progress meaningfully through the end game. And I went through the online guides. Also, cheat codes? No, no cheat codes, because that's content that's really fun and everything. Pay us shit instead, asshole. So you don't get the cheat codes like you have before. Grand Theft Auto 5. But all the guides on how to make money, they were always like, yeah, before this mission, you need to do this. Because if you don't, you're just basically screwed. And I mean, San Andreas, because my favorite Grand Theft Auto game is San Andreas. I think one of the things that helps that game a lot is just there's so many things to spend your money on and do. There's so many side activities. Like there was property, you could buy tons of different properties all across the place. And I remember in that game it felt like there was a lot of utility to buying those properties because it used the old save system where you need to go back to your house and save. And it was a genuine drive to get from one side of Los Santos to the other or to travel between a whole bunch of different cities. And so there was a lot of incentive to buy property and there were a lot of ways to make money. And there was a lot of side activities like going to the gym and exercising because if you exercised and got super healthy, it would give you advantages in the gameplay, like in the shootouts and chases and stuff. San Andreas... Those... Man, Grand Theft Auto is a cool series. I do like it. Like in the face of its massive popularity and kind of where it's at now. Like, damn, those were some good games. The PlayStation 2 ones. Grand Theft Auto 4 I really like. I like five. Sorry, tangent over. Super chat. Please read the Pokedex entries for Mimikyu. Oh boy, what horror is a white in this? Okay, here's the the Pokeman. There it is. That's that's Mimikyu. Looks slightly disturbing, I would say. So there's a couple of the Pokedex entries. So I'm just going to start with this one. It's actual appearance is unknown. A scholar who saw what was under its rag was overwhelmed by terror and died from the shock. Oh my god. Like the Ark of the Covenant under there. Well, is the implication that it's drawing on like a cloth it has over itself? Well, because those are its eyes there down on the torso, the fake torso. It's like Super Mario Hill. A little bit. Yeah. The hills have eyes, so to speak. Oh god. A gust of wind reveals what hides under this Pokemon's rag to a passing trainer who went home and died painfully that very night. Oh my god. I think it's official. I think it's like the official actual Pokedex entries. I would think so. And then we have. Yeah, there's a website that it's probably what he's using. It has all of the entries for all the different versions. All the games, yeah. Yeah. Bulba PDO or something. Yeah. After going to all the effort of disguising itself, its neck was broken. Whatever is inside is probably unharmed, but it's still feeling sad. Yeah, I'd be sad about that. Maybe he just wanted to die and it broke its neck, but it didn't kill it. I like how it couldn't draw like it had to do the squiggly crazy eyes instead of just drawing the eyes properly. And then it's this last one. It stands in front of a mirror trying to fix its broken neck as if it's life dependent on it. I mean, it probably does. It has a hard time getting it right, so it's crying inside. It's such a tragedy. A miserable existence, especially if the whole people dying from looking at it thing has nothing to do. Like it doesn't want that at all. What is that doing for his self-esteem? When people look at me, they die literally. I would honestly be a hell of a self-esteem if someone saw me and then fucking died. I want you to re-plug your microphone. I thought so much about that. Wait, really? Yeah. You're echoing. Maybe they heard you and then fucking died. I was going to say, do you want me to shout, Jared? I don't know if you can hear me from all the way over there. Do you want to join the rest of us in this corridor? Yeah, there you go. Mimikyu. Very fun. Beautiful. Any plans to get Mike Stucklasa on eFap? If he wants to. He'd be welcome. If Mike Stucklasa wants to come on eFap, he is more than welcome. Oh yeah. Yeah, Red Letter Media have a weird blind spot for TV shows and Marvel. They like The Boys Season 2, for fuck's sake. Plenty of people like The Boys Season 2. Plenty of people like The Boys Season 2. We were told we were crazy for a while. Yeah, it was only until Episode 7 when it should have been Episode 2, I think. Which one we realized we would. Probably one. I think there was a lot of red flags. One, but then by two. Yeah, we lost, and then three went fucking nuts. I'm sure Season 3 is a dramatic improvement. I haven't seen it yet, and I don't know if I'm really interested in watching it. Hello. Hello. Yeah, that sounds a bit better. Oh, wait, no, it shouldn't. No, it doesn't sound better. Okay, yeah, I don't know how you speak more. Um, so, um, my microphone just isn't working. That's not good. Try restart or something. What you're currently hearing through is the microphone on my webcam. Now I'll restart. Goodbye. Alrighty. Bye. Oh, you know, you want to make sure it feels... Glad we started that out. ...welcome to the exit. Um, okay, well, next up we got, um, he's a fun animal. The Reef Triggerfish. Otherwise known as the Humi... Humu... Humu... New... Hunu... Cow... Pow. Okay. My goodness. Uh, I just worked them up. It's an interesting looking. It's got some interesting stripes and whatnot. Yeah. Wow. A Triggerfish. Yeah. Oh, you've already got it up. Where is the Reef Triggerfish found in Hawaii? Oh, no. Found in the reefs of the Indo-Pacific and is the state fish of Hawaii. So it's probably got a decent amount of... I wonder if I saw that at the aquarium. It doesn't ring a bell. Maybe. Um, right. Uh, the farts weren't explored enough for what it was supposed to be. It's definitely wasted potential for, uh, they reference what it is, which is partially a spoiler. I know what they meant to say. I just love the idea that they phoned correct them to farts. I agree with you. This is what they really meant. I agree. Me and Fringy have mentioned when in the ability to spoil some things about a certain TV show that we feel that way about that thing. And not alone on that one. Yeah. The meme request was honored. Oh, that's such a great meme on its own. It's a good meme. You guys won. Yeah. Beautiful. Do I sound good and nice and crisp? No. No. Nope. Wait, really? Yeah. Yes, Ryan. Do I sound better at all? You sound about the same. Yep. Hey, Molden, did you check out the latest supermassive game? It's the gamiest so far. They put in a movie mode, so you don't even have to play this one. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's the quarrel. You get it achieved but for selecting that. Yeah, they have a mode where you don't even have to play. You can just set it to where everybody lives or dies or you can give them custom traits and then just watch it. You will find... Can't wait to play that one. Myself and Metal playing that around Halloween time, I suppose. Oh, no. As is custom. Well, I think you need to double up because they've got another one that's coming out this year, their anthology one and this. So that's two games. In that case, I mean, Metal can play one of them halfway through Halloween maybe and then the next one on Halloween. Oh, boy, double dose. I like how I say halfway through Halloween as if October itself is just happening. That's how I feel. Well, no, it could be halfway through Halloween, halfway through the day. True, it could be that. Although, I don't know if we can handle a double dose of Supermassive. I've got to get really drunk for that one. I sit there and it's like a movie mode. It's like, I guess you can add that option and that's fine. But like, you know. I guess what I will say is it's the game it makes the most sense for because it's so little in terms of mechanics. It's like it's almost like they were pretending the whole time and then someone went, you don't need to pretend. It's fine. We'll be OK with you being a movie. They're like, really? They're like, yeah, just be a movie. Fuck it. I suppose it's just it's video games, man. They're really cool in terms of the things that you can try to do to to entire your story into gameplay, making conscious choices about what kind of gameplay mechanics you're going to have, depending on the story you want to tell or achieving things that are. I was thinking a bit about I've been thinking about Metal Gear Rising because I've been listening to music and I was thinking about so what is it that makes like the Armstrong fight so cool? Why is it so memorable? And one of the things that is the case is just it was different. Nanomachine son challenge. Well, Nanomachine certainly helped. It was difficult. It was it was challenging. Yeah, when you fight a boss that says when first of all, they put you in a lot of in leading up to it states where you can't beat him where like, you know, if you attack him, you've got like every attack you do takes like point one of his health to have all that happen. And then the boss fight begins and it says 200 health unlike every other box you fought in the game. And then you fight him and win and he's really challenging. There's an emotional there's something you get out of that that's not replicable in a non interactive medium. The challenge feeds into the satisfaction of the narrative. It's it's one of those unique strengths of video. It's one of the reasons why I get annoyed when people say all games should have an easy mode. It feels like you're ignoring an aspect of video games that is in some sense inextricable if we consider fail states to be like a sort of necessary a defining aspect of a video game. I guess we can have a conversation about that. But the leveraging the interactive nature to enhance the storytelling or at least to give people the feelings that you want to give them. It's not because someone said dopamine. It's not dopamine. It's because like dopamine is not going to that's not going to explain me looking back on it fondly now like that memory of that of that fight scene and that whole sequence. It's satisfying at the time but the fact that it's so memorable I think stems from that challenge. Yeah, I don't know. It's just something to think about in the face of a game that has an option to have zero interactivity. Mike Flanagan's absentia isn't half bad. Funny thing on prime cast info for absentia incorrectly as info for Friday the 13th part two or the sequel sorry. Well they better fix that I guess. Right back. Presumably that can be like flagged up by users and stuff. I don't know. But neat. What's your opinions on the boys if you've watched it and if you haven't I really like it. You should watch it high rags. Hi there. Like all of it or season one two three. Well let's just answer that broadly quickly. Season one we like it thumbs up. Season two stinky season three. Nobody's watched any of it yet out of us. Nope. We found season two was so stinky it put me off the boys as a whole. And I've been too busy to even give a chance to the boys season three. And nobody's. So this is kind of interesting I guess and it's relevant to put it out now. Like I mentioned it already in this stream so I imagine some people will be like wait why did you watch the latest season of strange things. I'd be like pretty much just because a couple people that I trust recommended it. Meanwhile the boys season three I don't think anybody that I know has told me that it's good yet. I know some people have watched it but I haven't got anybody saying like oh you've got to check out the boys season three. Meanwhile they had for stranger things. So I was like fine I'll go have a look see. I may have a look see it the boys season three if I hear enough people say I should see it. Kind of how it works at this point you know. I just get peer pressured. Next they'll say smoking. I should do smoking. Hope I don't give in. Hope I don't watch the TV show smoking. Smoking a show so bad it'll give you cancer. Ignore absentee's terrible DVD art. That's not a problem. Don't judge a book by its cover A. A. Even though everybody does hence why the quote exists. Vada was so cool when he did a star killer. As if star killer isn't Ray levels of Gary stew BS. He's the shadow the hedgehog of Star Wars. I hate him. Oh my god. I think the reason why it goes over better with Star Wars fans is like Star killer stories because he suffers greatly. He does. Goes through a lot of shit. So it's like it just feels a little bit more. Like maybe there's also again when we think about storytelling aligning the player with you know the fact that he's the playable character. Yeah. That's something I've been thinking about a bit too on that subject is the nature of aligning the interests of everything about a bit with Halo kind of prompted it. That that something that can cause a serious disconnect in a video game is when your interests are fundamentally not aligned with the character you're playing. Abby in the last of us two is the yeah. Nobody wants to in that boss fight. Nobody really wants to fight Ellie. And so you're in a situation where a lot of players just don't want to engage with the game as presented. Conversely when you're playing Halo there's no point when you're like I maybe we should sit down and talk with the Covenant talk with the flood and sort this out. Like your interests are entirely aligned with with the character. There is no disconnect. Like I think Ludo narrative is the disconnect in a sense. You know it can vary like with different results but I think you are like that is I think that might be the ultimate example when they force you to play as Abby and battle Ellie and try and defeat her. That's the kind of thing where you're just like why the fuck what I want to do this. I imagine the conversation they had is this is an interesting dilemma to put the player in where the character that they're controlling has to fight somebody that they that they like. But I guess the reason why I only dilemma if you can only well and think I that's right. So that's kind of like and like injustice too has got problems. But like when you when you at the end of the I guess this is spoilers at the end of the game you get to choose whether you want to fight as Batman or Superman that determines the ending. It's like if you give the player the choice that can be really interesting and having them come into conflict with a character that they've played as. I know I know that I remember this I think it was a rant that angry Joe had about Halo 5 and how disappointing it was and something he suggested is could you imagine if you had to play as Locke in a boss battle against Master Cheap that would have been awesome. And it's like that would have been awesome. That's that's like a really cool idea to have you play as somebody who then gets pitted against the protagonist you've been with for a long time. That can be like really cool gameplay wise to be up against somebody who you know what they can do because you played as them. I guess as I think about examples of that working well though the the Ellie Abbey one is like not that because nobody's nobody's engaging with that. I think I think it is a matter of how immersed are you getting people in the experience to where they can engage with that properly rather than them recognizing what this is which is this is a boss battle and I can't progress unless I engage with the mechanics. But I don't want to something's gone wrong ultimately something has gone wrong and someone could say well that's someone's subjective experience with the game and it's like I guess that's true but if that's happening to a lot of people have that subjective experience it seems. Well if that's happening to a lot of people and you're thinking about I guess really the kind of subjective nature of how people choose to engage with the gameplay you know why is it that I don't know when when Moeller was playing Resident Evil Villains that he's like fucking around to see what will break if he's playing. Oh yeah it's hard not to push it off that attitude. It really is hard not to just kind of do that. Yeah it's it's uncharted the way that that works is hopefully you are having enough fun doing what the game wants you to do that you won't realize that you can't do much more than what the game wants you to. The second that you realize that it can cause a lot of problems oh I can't go over there why can't I go over here why can't I do this oh I can't go back now as opposed to a game like Metroid where you can go wherever you want you know within the bounds of whatever abilities that you have it's a it's a delicate balance I think the aligning the interest of the player with the protagonist while also having the protagonist be a character. It's really easy when it's someone like Master Chief it's a lot harder when they're a well-defined hero and then I guess your option there is yeah. On your point about the presenting that choice being so much more interesting I guess it's mostly related but I was just gonna say like I will forever be busy that they didn't let the players choose whether or not to execute Abbie at the end of The Last of Us 2 after all the points the game believes it's making about violence and sort of what choice you should make yeah because I think it would then you could present it in a very cold manner at the end of the credits it would say you know a number comes up and it says the players who chose to end Abbie's life and the players who didn't you know and it would be 90% wanting to kill Abbie. I'm not even gunning for the comedy side of it of which that's very true I would more so be gunning for like is this not an incredibly fascinating social experiment to see what happened as a result of what you gave us in terms of a narrative and what players chose to do what does it say about humanity that everyone decided to fucking kill Abbie I think that would be I think that's the problem they didn't think that would be the case they thought that by the end of it people would see both sides and then understand that it's complicated but they failed didn't they see the zebra I guess it's it's I think that that is indicative of an attitude that probably isn't conducive to making good video games which is no this is our story like no we're not giving anything to you this is our like we're not going to put anything in your hands in terms of any decisions or conclusions you come to this is our story rather than creating a game that can be interpreted in different ways depending on how the player engage with it has multiple endings none of which are necessarily more canonical than the other um and I don't I think that there's a look the the binary morality system is like you know I think it's got serious limitations go away when well I mean in part I uh yeah I mean hell like I even I think mass effect in a lot of ways related it poorly um I think so because there's too many mechanics that tie into um being power on a renegade that it makes a lot more sense to play one way or the other but this is what I would say infamous does the same thing um but I think that infamous doesn't really I think that I think that when you play infamous there is an understanding that once you pick one track you're going to be going that direction and what I like I because I adore infamous I really really like that game and one of the things I like about it so much is that it does the thing that I think should often be done when it comes to morality which is make the good path harder make it more challenging make it more testing yeah the easy way is the path is like the way where you because you'll often be presented with choices like man I could like disable this thing without poisoning people but then I'm going to get fucked and I'm going to lose my abilities for a little while it's going to be harder or I could just not care and just do it the most efficient way possible I still achieve my objectives but a lot of other people get hurt in the process and the game judges you very harshly for the negative choices like it makes things easier but there are negative storytelling consequences easy mode be evil there here's your easy mode well what I what I like about that game so much is that the ending is in the evil ending basically coal is like yeah I'm like in charge of the city I have all the power you know in like the this the law of the jungle and no one's more powerful than me so in a sense like he's pretty content with this as an ending but if you pick the good part all it is it's just cold talking about how like I'm alone I like there's nobody here I can't trust anybody everybody's and and yeah the people in this city love me but what happens the first time they expect me to be there for them I'm and I'm not it's like damn like that's an interesting thought that like you've taken the path of the hero and yeah people like you for now but you can't save everybody so what's going to happen when you start failing what's going to happen you nobody you can't trust anybody everybody's manipulating you infamous is really cool I should remaster that instead of the last of us fucking one all right least we hopefully have a good dead space remade I guess remaster remake is a remake remaster it's a remake they've remade okay okay yeah hopefully that'll be good are you ready for the last of us part one to come in and make changes to try and fail to make part two and Abby a whole look as a whole look better and Joel look worse yes I'm ready is it confirmed that they're changing anything about the narrative they're changing the gameplay but I'm pretty sure based on what they're showed in that trailer that the cut scenes are one-to-one like whatever they know that they lie about cut scenes unfortunately so the what I mean by that is if I were like looking final fantasy seven is remake is very clearly not the original game very clearly where and same with resident evil remake versus or resident evil two remake versus brand evil two in this case it looks like they are the cut scenes with the original recordings for like the motion capture and everything and they've just done whatever magic with like the engine to make it look better so it looks like it's going to be one-to-one and I guess the gameplay mechanics are probably going to be like they are in two so not great but yeah pig is 100% unbridled praiseworthy there's the Nicholas Cage big movie yeah I probably do a fortune that one day I've got a pig big Kenobi is the only Star Wars show I've seen and I hate it the only upside is you guys covering it what are you guys favorite artists slash styles in history my rags hello artists fans sorry you mean deck go in what okay what was the question again sorry in full what are your favorite artists slash styles in history okay was that is that artists in history I would say sorry sorry you could go really far back with that I imagine it looks Jay's already far back enough in the room okay can't can't push even further wait am I still in the room Mike was that no you're we can do you don't worry they're talking with you they're tricking you right to left then rags you said Art Deco expand I really like a lot of the imagery a lot of the very a lot of the focus it has on things tapering to points in the the human iconography that you have with statues and things the references to mythologies I like a lot of the clear defined lines in the shapes as they they sort of meet together that that Chrysler building kind of look I really enjoy it like rapture is a really excellent sort of example of how that style can be you know explored that was awesome I really really enjoy that look especially because you can apply it to so many things it's not just a like like a poster or an advertisement it can be an entire style of architecture you can build cities that are Art Deco good luck building a surrealist city as much as I like the art style there is do you have a favorite Art Deco like architects or not really I don't know architects much I just recognize some of the styles um so metal yes me uh I don't know I never really thought about that but if we could like go with a style I've always really like enjoyed like basically all the art styles and like the warhammer universe I think that just just cool shit like doesn't even matter if it's like the fantasy one or the the space marines ones that's really like those looks things really really nice I don't know the names for them I don't know but that's like the style I would probably say first someone just gothic it's like yeah I guess it checks out yeah yeah yeah mubes I was gonna go with gothic because I don't have anything else like like any particular preferences I like stuff from all over the place I don't think I've ever thought of a one style as a sort of like oh that's that's that's me right there but what I like about gothic when it shows up is that it seems so almost complicated huge grand and just crazy prestigious it always comes across to me um and it's like perfect for fantasy settings as well as um I love it when it's thrown into horror these uh these buildings seem great for as villain layers and stuff but um I don't know there's a there's a vibe that comes with a lot of gothic architecture as for particular artists and this is broad enough to cover like you know all of art because much of human expression really um I guess other than the stuff everyone already knows in terms of just people I like they stuff a lot you know writing or whatever a particular artist I don't yeah I don't know that I have any particular preference from any particular artist the person I keep my eye on the most recently and when it comes to storytelling is probably Mike Flanigan if that counts as an answer um Jay oh sorry well I was just gonna ask all the other artists you guys keep track of to that degree where you're just waiting for the next thing no um thanks my my reading of the question was actually what's that I was gonna say like only musical or I guess like writing as well but like that's it so I think so my guess would be that the question was actually your favorite artistic styles I mean like baroque or surrealism or um or futurism or something like that and and then a favorite artist would be a specific individual like and like a like an art artist visual art I mean like um like I guess we want to be really generic like Leonardo da Vinci or something that's my impression in terms of like artists that I um I really like what Chuck Jones did with Looney Tunes I think that I think that uh I really like the style of those golden age um American animations that's something I I think is baroque no baroque and uh I but I guess in terms of specific artists there's like a lot of artists I'll follow on Twitter just pay attention what they're doing there's certain comic book artists I think are really cool like Greg Capullo I like his art style David Finch is really uh good I like uh I mean um uh David Masicelli but I don't know if he does anything anymore um and in terms of writers I'd probably have to think about that a bit I guess Flanagan would count for sure John Watts but he's not a writer he's a director isn't he well yeah I mean directors are artists right yeah um yeah uh in terms of like a favorite style though of architecture and keeping with what everybody else's answers are it probably is art deco I uh I really adore that style there's something I like about the it's it it's um it's simultaneously extravagant while also being restrained in a sense um because that's kind of the nature of the style the origin of the style in like the roaring 20s was a level of extravagance beyond pure utilitarianism yet at the same time there are these clear bounds um to what you would do with that style that it has a level of simplicity to it even though it's not that it's an interesting fusion and I mean I like I like uh like what the the Chrysler building looks like I like that kind of style Jay's in her life now right yes yeah Jay have you ever seen a building before no um not from the outside I like I like surrealism a lot I don't in terms of like individual artists I I wouldn't be able to really name any I get like well I know like who Salvador Dali is but like I don't really know enough artists by name to pick out a favorite right you know but um there's a lot of great artists really that's that's I you're probably in the same boat as me there's so many great artists like visual artists that it's um that picking like one or even a handful feels like you're always going to be leaving out people like I don't spend I don't spend enough time thinking about the creation of art I guess the the metadata of art to actually just like remember people's names who made it I just I just look at it and I'm like yeah I really like that and that's the end of my experience with an artwork maybe about what it means or whatever but like I guess it depends on what your because you said music like you're much more versed in musicians because like that's something that you're more interested in doing yourself creatively which I think spurs that yeah and as well with music is um it tends to be if like I'm looking at it if I'm looking at a surrealist painting um I feel like the chances are the person who paints it it's probably been long dead uh and what do you think that's a bit of a barrier to being more well like or at least um I don't no I guess I just don't get the same drive to be like oh I want to see the other work that this person did right um I think um I am with them that okay I tend to be like I want to listen to like all this person's songs I I get what you mean in that the artist that I listed who I liked all their artists paired with narrative like Chuck Jones and David Masochelli and stuff so like all of their artwork is really great as art but it's all paired with stories that I like um and so that might be the thing like that's I think that's uh no I don't want to say something stupid like I was about to because all art is essentially storytelling if you want to break it down in some sense you're trying to convey some sort of uh some sort of a story like if you just kind of convey like an atmosphere or a mood that's not necessarily a story I guess the thing is is when you look at something like starry night you could say that there's a story there even though it is like a still image it's not technically a sequence but the sequence can be inferred based on um like your perception of it your reading of it a lot of um a lot of art that I think infers a sequence but I don't think it's necessarily always there uh yeah for sure maybe maybe what I'm saying is too broad I guess it's more so that you could look at a um you could look at a painting that is uh I don't know it's like a mountain scape I went to a art gallery last week and while I was there I saw this really beautiful um painting of it was like meant to be yeah it was um it was it was like I don't think there are any people in it it was just like a mountain scape in the background like soaked in sort of like a warm pink hue from the sunlight or the sunset there's not really there's no characters here um and I guess you could say that the atmosphere is really the sense that's palpable in that I guess it's just that yeah maybe I am being too too uh too specific if I say that there's a story there it might just be the atmosphere but I guess it would be that the goal is always to convey something um some sort of um not necessarily a sequence I suppose um yeah I'm not sure actually I need to think about that a bit more likes it just likes realist paintings I like I like I like the ones that feel very liminal um what does liminal mean Jay well okay so I like um liminal spaces a lot um and I like surrealist paintings for the same reason that a lot of them um seem to capture the atmosphere of like a long time a long time degraded memory so you you remember something from a long ago like maybe a place or an environment and all of the details of that place have faded away in your mind and you're just stuck with this very basic perception of this place you once were long ago and maybe some feelings that go along with it and looking at anything that captures that like sort of in the moment so a liminal space would be you know something that looks like the the place that you remember but you only remember the place in that way because your memory is lacking detail and a place that looks like that currently almost feels forbidden like you're not supposed to be looking at it like that supposed to be in your long distant memories um and I just really like that experience um I don't know it's an experience that really I like there's no other really way to put it no I I get it I because I looked up surrealism there's a lot of cool imagery here though now it's prompted a thought in me because I will never forget about that it was either a blank canvas or it was like just red and it was in like an art gallery and it baffled me um yeah a lot of that stuff is muddy laundering I uh how uh like aren't an expression because when I look at a baroque painting it's always just man like this is really cool that you made this this is an incredibly well wrought image that you created with with uh with paint and it's super duper impressive in terms of art and it uh like expression and capability whereas I guess I'm not sure how I feel about expression but not that much by way of like any technical skill in realizing it I uh I'm not sure how I square that away I'm not even sure that it's clear what I mean by that I like you don't it's a lot harder for me to appreciate a piece of modern art when it's just a red square when I can look at a her on her on this Bosch three panel set and be like holy shit you put a lot of work into this Jesus Christ look at all this stuff well yeah because because the the baroque painting isn't devoid of artistic expression the artistic expression is there in all of the choices that you made of what's on there how it's uh how it's colored how it's light the lighting the composition framing all of that has gone into it but it's paired with the capacity to realize something that most people can't do that like that's an element of what's impressive about art and in something where it's just splashing paint on a canvas you've expressed something sure but there's no there's no um there's there's either less there's less skill involved in realizing that like I could do that and so I it's expression sure uh and there can be value in that expression but I guess I I wonder how much the talent factors into or maybe not the talent but more so just the the skill that would be required to realize this is um factors into an assessment of its quality it feels like two modes when you uh appreciating the construction of it versus kind of appreciating like meaning all of it I was just thinking about how if you had someone who took an apple and then opened like a padlock and just put it through it and then close the padlock so and then put that on a on a you know stool that's the piece it's a padlocked apple and you look at it and you're like huh and you think about what I could mean versus someone who draws a photo realistic version of that where it's like on one on one it's like that must have taken you like a couple maybe a minute to get that right and the other one it's like whoa and you get just like the one on the stool it's like I could I could see myself ended up staring at it for a little bit to think about what I think it might mean but the one that was done photo realistic drawing I would be staring at it not only for its meaning but also being like man it's a fucking good drawing that's yeah it's it's just the recognition of the amount of work that would have gone into that um factors into how impressive I find it I can't not look at this really incredible painting of a landscape that and especially when because it's something that I guess becomes a lot clearer when you're looking at these paintings in person is when you when you you know take a few steps back the way that it looks from there but then when you also come closer to it and you can see all the paint strokes and the brush strokes and how you chose to use these strokes deliberately and yeah intentionally to create this image and then the texture of all the paint on the canvas as well like how it can glisten under the right lighting conditions depending on what type of paint you know that you used I think that I personally find that there's more to appreciate there than in something where it's a bunch of paint splashed on the canvas I guess the problem is I don't want to be too dismissive of that because maybe there's a really compelling argument for that the mind-blowing value of that I just don't see it I want to give a special honorable mention go ahead no no go for it I want to give this honorable mention to retrofuturism yes I was thinking about saying that retrofuturism is such a cool style retrofuturism is it's generally known but if you if you look up google images of it you'll probably find 1950s 60s style yeah yeah I love it cyborgs and laser guns but it's kind of an umbrella love all of this this is yeah well retrofuturism was the direct inspiration for like the style of Futurama it's definitely in that vein I like how optimistic it is it's kind of like Art Deco in the same way I feel it has that because Art Deco is big on like you like man is you know it's it's it's kind of the Andrew Ryan thing no gods or kings only man it's very humanity focused and you see struggle work go for it go at it you have the ability you have to you have to keep on going it's an optimistic sort of look at you have what it takes but you just going to have to work hard for it and retrofuturism is it's sort of an umbrella term for diesel punk and steampunk and that sort of stuff because it's an it's an envisioning yeah I think I'd push it it's it's not white I think that those are adjacent to it I think I think diesel punk and steampunk are adjacent to retrofuturism but I think what would characterize retrofuturism is very bright colors very sleek designs and aesthetics but there's like a texture behind it because it is like paper right it's it's that kind of seeps through because you can see it if you look it up on google like every single one and even the iron giant tries to emulate it too is like the texture of the paper it's it's it is these futuristic worlds and settings but it's almost like the texture of it grounds it in yes but this is an old perception of the future well it's any it's any envisionment of it is primarily from the late 40s when rocketry yeah becoming to I would I'd say early 70s sort of you could push it early 70s sure it's like an envisionment of a future made from a particular point in the past and it's a mixture of an idealized version of what technology could be not necessarily optimistic but often so and architecturally it's very it has very surrealist architecture a lot of the times which is generally not something you get with art deco which might make it an odd pairing for why I mentioned it earlier because I really like art deco architecture but a lot of the buildings in retro futuristic art they're very very bizarrely shaped and odd and they're not utility focused they're very much just strange and unusual and I think that contrasts with a sort of semi grounded nature of like the the technology like you look at a robot in that style or a ray gun in that style and they're not like there's not utility in it like you look at all the ray guns you've seen in art and in video games like and then you compare that with a real gun and how guns really are made and it's just there's nothing maybe a way to describe it would be it is an envisioning of the future with absolutely no regard for the feasibility of any of this technology maybe yeah it's not about going for a realistic perception of the future kind of yeah on your appreciation of all of these styles by the way I think I have a graphic novel adaptation which is and it gets a story but it's also just like a a book that's just there to appreciate the artwork it's told or it's also just it's interesting because it's one of the few stories I know told with absolutely no dialogue it's about a guy going to a place where he doesn't speak the language at all so all of the dialogue that's in it is completely like non understandable to you as like the POV it's called the arrival if you want and if you want to have a look you can have a look at some of the artwork by just googling it I'm not sure it's not the same thing and it's not it's not retrofuturism but like there are definitely similarities within the artwork I will keep that in mind okay I'll pull it up here no you mentioned Futurama has a level of inspiration on that I always felt that about like yeah they have like a little shoulder um yeah on their sleeves that are unnecessary but they're like little blades yeah and this is it it comes across as very Jetsons is it? yeah yeah I think um someone said is it the opposite of cyberpunk and I wouldn't say that the cyberpunk is high I think it's high tech low society is like the the briefest sentence that describes what cyberpunk is it's like kind of it's in the nearest future as opposed to retrofuturism is often pretty far-flung in the future um and there's much less of a focus on the yeah potentially for sure it's just that cyberpunk is generally pretty close to the modern day and there's much more of a focus on the influence of technology on individuals within a broader society um whereas I think the scope of retrofuturism is usually a bit bigger um it's usually a bit more than again just on it's because like in the late 40s host world war two is done and over and technology wise your rockets are starting to become a thing the concept of going to space is like we're on the cusp of sort of doing that kind of thing and we start really looking outwards towards space and other planets and oftentimes in retrofuturism you will see depictions of the world in the city more familiar places obviously in a totally different style but it's very optimistic they're gleaming cities beautiful clothing and people but the the the space out there is full of monsters and strange creatures and totally bizarre worlds and those are adventures to be sought after and I imagine that's where the travel mysteries is definitely a big part of it I would imagine though that the reason why it seems like cyberpunk might be an opposite is because cyberpunk is very pessimistic about the future and um and retrofuturism is very optimistic about the future um but I think I think cyberpunk is a really fucking cool genre oh yeah absolutely love cyberpunk anyway I hope you got your money's worth on yeah other genres you think are uncool bringing I don't know that there's a genre that I would find uncool anime anime's not as genre it's a um it's a it's animation I guess it's a subcategory of animation I think it's well without getting into it I think there's a decent argument that could be made that especially at this point anime is is a there's a huge portion of it that is a kind of a genre and a style with the sort of cultural tropes and consistencies that you can see in it but of course there's a lot of there's a huge amount of variety I say I say it jokingly even though I don't really like anime don't worry and um just like three lines I'll trigger all of chat for a good hour okay as a type of animation anime is an art form that comprises many genres found in other mediums it is sometimes mistakenly classified as a genre itself in Japanese the term anime is used to refer to all animated works regardless of style or origin interesting what are you reading that from The Simpsons is an anime hahahaha now go be triggered anyway Mr. Sparkle um that's that would be a fun tv show wouldn't it the adventures of Mr. Sparkle yeah the fact that it reads why Mr. Sparkle exists is a fusion between a fish and a light bulb and that's Homer Mr. Sparkle I have a feeling that rags mail just think we're saying nonsense bullshit right now they're they're the protagonist in the arrival and there are so many weird art names today it's all bullshit to me did you catch that jai included you in the potential mr. sparkle understanding yeah I do understand that because I've seen like all of Golden Age Simpsons I know that's why I did I I believe there are some things you have seen but you really did take the whole touch grass comment too seriously didn't you you just never touched me here again do you you know when you said I looked at the newspaper and realized there's nothing well you figure there's nothing fun for you in there do you have that same thought when you saw the box set for Lord the Rings got him yeah so anyway I'll admit episode five surprised me I was expecting Riva to beat Veda effortlessly was pleasantly surprised to see him beat her effortlessly was expecting Disney stars would cause me to expect character assassination now they still did he didn't kill it yeah they still again before and after they damaged they're gonna regret that Vader is pretty heavily damaged by this episode it's kind of sad he does a lot of weird stuff yeah you'll see that eventually I can't promise a release date for that one that is still very much in the editing process but the next one's out tomorrow woohoo yay eFap 189 superchats when they put daddy on the end oh my well when daddy so it's kind of weird I'm trying to like they're all ready to go I just want to flood Mula with them so I'm trying I was gonna put them trying to put them out one per week and then I was like oh I'm putting out minis for uh the Kenobi does that count as too many minis at ones I don't know I guess it shouldn't because they're different things they're on their way out I'll put them out um though I guess I could show it now there's no reason not to we managed to get that new bit of artwork done so once Kenobi's over and we start up a new well yeah that looks great any kind of uh coverage on tv shows which we do have lots of plans in the future it will look like this ain't that neat everybody wow you ain't seen this before what happened in here whoa ow look at that beautiful wow well you could if you wanted to I like it I really like it it's a good it's a good shade a good tone a good I do like me a purple purple's pretty neat yeah you'll end up seeing a lot of the purple boy if we end up doing lots of different plans we have yeah so this will mean minis no longer have tv shows put into it it'll go back to just being uh trailers and super chat catch ups and I guess whatever else that's small that we end up throwing in who know Kenobi you know what you should do is you should retroactively go back and renumber all of the minis and remove the tv episodes and relabel them as efap tv you know I just wasn't tempted to do that as weird as it sounds you can do it Jay you're the manager yeah that's the manager I don't do meanial work oh and hire someone to do it for you yeah that's what you guys are oh my god oh my goodness gracious you're gonna have to double what you pay us if you want us to do that fine you can have a second dollar damn this one that'll I mean extra sip of gasoline this one says Kenobi brought the magic yes yes grandpa now sleep oh no Kenobi brought the magic welcome back welcome back dumbos get solar sands on for some star wars stuff his droid vid was pretty cool also you referenced thief happened a vid he did two years ago not sure exactly who that is but uh maybe I'm familiar with that person's videos they're browsing deviant up videos nice read disnoid letter media okay look don't need to jump they've they've shadowed disney quite a bit all right they're not they ain't disney yes they have it just they just have a really bad take on kenobi strange take one that is hard to understand exactly more would it be cool if you said this um and I used it in a video yeah you can use this in a video so the line is billy I'm going to turn you into a lizard I guess I'll see that one way one day I don't it implies so much tension because we don't know if he's going to be able to turn billy into a lizard or if this is what billy wants hopefully it's what he wants not sure how to prove I'm me at least not without making tons of cringe rooftop jokes which I don't want to do because I've mellowed out a lot since I was last year so I hope people just believe me actually kind of do believe you based on that I like how Jay told us to be the super skeptical ones on these raw impersonators and literally the first super chat that comes after it is claiming to be raw Jay's like yeah I got perfect timing on the stream by the way this is from new raw potentially I watched all the mando boba streams areland the hack frauds at a point where they like being miserable of course they praise this and refuse to watch stuff like maverick wait they refuse to watch top gun I don't know if they were I thought they refused to watch Batman I don't know if they refuse to watch Maverick why wouldn't they want to watch top gun curiosity if anybody well I've been watching their videos I don't remember them saying they refuse to watch that they mentioned the Batman in their video on Kenobi well it's just a meme right they keep mentioning how they're not going to talk about it yeah yeah so they said the first time they mentioned it they were like if the if a lie if a comment about us like in Batman or whatever gets a hundred thousand likes we'll watch it and review it and then it did and but it was clear in the video that they were like joking and then they start you can't joke about that kind of thing I think they started a couple videos saying like oh I just saw the Batman I can't wait to talk about it but first and then talk about someone else they did this with um Dune a couple times if you remember they wouldn't talk about Dune for ages and then they finally did I think it was Jay and uh one of his one of their friends it wasn't one of the Canadian friends it was calling so yeah um you know they don't really review whatever they want but like it does come across as strange to like I'll watch the new Disney Star Wars show when I'm almost sitting it'll be terrible instead of the movie that everybody's were recommending you know like if you're gonna pick something to watch I don't know I don't know why you'd rule out something like the Batman especially if you say if this comment gets a hundred thousand likes we'll watch a movie and it's like it's one thing if you say if like if you this comment gets a hundred thousand likes I'll cut off my left pinky or something like that obviously don't do that but if it's watching a movie for a hundred thousand likes that's a coordinated effort by your community that shows that they really want to first off that they take you seriously which is generally good but also that they really want you to see this and you it's just watching a movie you know it's not like a even if you even if your thoughts were you talking about after 20 seconds that's something we saw it we thought it was okay uh and it was neat and the acting was fine and it had the style and the music was all right now onto the video that'd be something I think that they would the whole thing was a meme though I think they were definitely definitely trying to make it come across as just a joke yeah yeah definitely because I remember that as well sad yeah and as James Morgan said they do say watching the Batman is not guaranteed like it as a as like a disclaimer meme at the end of sorry well if there is a disclaimer I guess it's like basically a bit boo also get Abby Simmons on for something related to the MCU her captain marvel and captain america vids are neat oh yeah play ddlc too abby abby Simmons I do not know that I do not know this person no abby Simmons captain marvel let me take a look here in a second abby abby it's confirmed in disney canon that Yoda and Kenobi left a child to die at the temple what the fuck is this trash if you're talking about Kenobi as a show I think most those kids would kill during order 66 where Yoda and Kenobi were both fighting clones and stuff if you're talking about something else like something that happened as they were at the temple and they ditched like a kid or something like I don't know but that would suck if it's true Shakespeare insult of the day um oh just a heat her here is her video is how to write a strong female character who isn't toxic and annoying and the the the thumbnail is a picture of captain marvel with an arrow pointing at her why I hate strong female characters so I guess she doesn't like captain marvel wow and which is weird because she's a wamin and those characters are for them women I do too yeah that's why we that's why you're here we um we needed more women hate we collect Pokemon Kenobi anyway the Shakespeare insult of the day is out you mad headed ape a weasel hath no such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with that's from Henry the the fourth okay quite the insult I would be perplexed I heard that Henry the fourth was only half the man Henry the eighth was nice laying on my bed right now with 38 degrees fever um oh that's not good had to miss newest Jurassic world with my buddy I hope I can recover through anger at those bad takes great obi-wan vid rags oh thank you very much I'm glad you like those little things hope you get better sir this yeah yeah a self an ice pack yeah fevers are no fun no I hope it isn't the what's the new thing monkey pox I hope it isn't the monkey pox this girl fever I always thought that was just an alternate name for AIDS I would actually say that the prequels somewhat bolstered obi-wan into the character we know from the OT his loss and failure or what drive him into the man he was too bad Kenobi the show sucks um I I think so I think that I am more than happy to take the prequels when thinking about obi-wan in the OT then not have them um thinking about that whole environment that he was in and grew up in and was trained in all getting torn down I think that informs a decent amount of um his sort of resolving in what we see in the OT again though that doesn't mean that I think that the prequels are in any way perfect just uh there are some things I like to pull from them that I think assist the OT conflicting tone when you show a dead Jedi trophy room in the same episode as a trench coat scene yeah we we we talked about I mean one of the more direct ones is the fact that Leia is screaming as she's about to get tortured and then they're like oh get ready for the funny scene like wait what I don't I still don't think it's supposed to be a funny scene I know I don't think it was defensive it which is weird because I laughed more at the little girl about to be tortured than I ever did at the very strange real afterwards of the coat that's not true that's not true at all you liar we've got it on record when you see episode four come out I'm I'm laughing maniacally like a hyena also light year was okay big problems though okay big problems but it was okay uh well I mean I don't know if anybody here really has any interest in watching that film no the only way I watch it is if someone I trust watched it and told me it's absolutely horrible or amazing and then I'd be like all right right whereas the much more likely answer is this going to be it's yeah I came to this channel dogs oh no hyenas are more closely related to cats they're closer to feel today than they are canadae uh they are their own little thing though hyenas are kind of doing their own thing over there but they're closer to dogs than cats than dogs I came to this channel like hyena I came to this channel for unbiased movie coverage but then I got jeb piled also hi rags hello jeb piled it's the best take that jeb pill there was another um it was another thread about how we're awful awful people for covering jenny's video on joker um yes and I was scrolling through the top comments from one of them was like how the fuck do they spend an hour talking about jeb bush like and I was just like I love this I actually love this how how couldn't you I'm surprised it was only an hour we only spent an hour talking about jeb bush that was the stream where we discovered his name was john ellis bush bush bush bush bush yeah I'm still so disappointed by that it was funny as fuck and yeah um it's just whenever you get people who actually watch it because they just don't believe the reality of that they find out it's so disappointing to them because they they're so ready to hate that they're like oh what oh they're talking about jeb bush for an hour what is this they're abusing poor jeb no celebrating is the truth jeb squad these unfurl was doing research into who is writing kenobi and it turns out the lead writer is only three writing credits to his name the first got 24 percent orang tomatoes the second lost 150 million and the third was army of the dead yeah he was the he did the screenplay for army of the dead that's one of those it's crazy isn't it like how did you who who did you suck to get this job you know like how if we looked at someone's history of writing and there was like five credits and let's say there was one bad two okay and then one good and one that's like we haven't seen or something we're like okay you know see what happens but if someone had five and it was like great great great great army of the dead i and it was the newest one was army of the dead i'd be like no no no no one happens are you okay that one's such a blight at that point i might i might have assumed like something happened with the studio something must have gone catastrophically wrong yeah like maybe you know maybe they were working maybe zack was telling them exactly what they needed to do oh in this universe i'm saying that like they're the riot director let's say okay and we know there's not studio interference then i suppose if we did know that then yeah that would be one of them blights that's just like that's like wonder woman 84 levels we're just like patty what the fuck we felt i'm agreeing with all this but i also i haven't seen army of the dead i just i just trust you on there let's put it this way i would even recommend watching for laughs there's a good reason jay shouldn't watch it and that is because i wouldn't want interrupt your current projects because you'd be like this is so hideously bad i want to make a video and i'd be like no no no jay stop you go to jay if you ever believe us about anything ever believe this bad because i don't want my army of the dead video i want your other videos but also i'm the dead if you can make them both go ahead if you if you honestly if you made an army of the dead video i'd be i'd be kind of curious what you have to say about it because boy that film it is an uncomfortable film to watch not emotionally physically physically down right really actually yes i'm a little nauseating yeah no it gave gave me a full on headache um which is very rare for films to do that to me ever we're not naming or or some kind of like weird no no no it's it's it's the way that they shoot that film it is very blurry a lot of the time yeah just look up screenshots of army of the dead and you'll find it in everyone i don't know what camera they use i don't know if that was like a post production thing but it is a very blurry film jade did you know i came close dead pixel in the movie there was a dead pixel in the movie yep i was i was almost about to tell jay that about halfway through they finally fix it but then i realized no no no that's just when i got used to it yeah um and i think they updated like the streamable versions to not have the dead pixel anymore but uh yeah it was because if i remember correctly zack got particular lenses he loved from like ebay or something from somebody and then the ones he used had like one of them had a dead pixel in it awkward but it's great reality i suppose insert shock to me that's almost that that's almost something you can't blame them for i guess but like they could have noticed it and fix it act no yeah i was gonna say isn't that like the whole point of quality control is to notice these things yeah quality control come on yeah the point of quality control is to notice army of the dead wow you guys are being mean zack's made so many good movie at this time these shots they don't look good and then just expand that out to two hours two and a half i think what the fuck is this are you saying you're not excited by this image that means dead zack's night or something i mean you guys will hear a let's say all of this if you ever get the army of the dead you've had movies it does exist um but what a fucking what an easy win for a story mercenary sent into steel from vegas while zombies have covered all over it easy that is like the easiest fucking thing to make interesting ever and you screwed it all up to the point when nobody talks about this movie anyway in the search shocked meme reaction i have watched a lot of rags dog bites videos and only now i noticed what's on the far left side of his desk dog toys a halo three poster yeah exactly a white board a fridge a fruit dammit build those oh damn yeah some of those what allegedly if that's what they are i don't even know if that's what they are but what day is the first of the week what time zone sunday monday is the first day of the week well it's between sunday and monday well i don't know what it means for it to be the weekend if one of the days of the week is literally the beginning of the week i thought that weeks officially began with sunday but um i guess i don't really get that as a thing i i think i mean a lot of places will count sunday as the beginning of the week it's just that monday makes more sense to me as the beginning of the week is the beginning of the work week and the week sunday is part of the weekend you know a lot of people in chat are saying sunday well uh says here sunday is the first day of the week whereas monday is the first day of the working week internationally monday or the monday has now been connoted as the first day of the week okay i just looked at google calendar and sunday is the is uh the first day that they put in yeah i mean i've always known this to be a thing that sunday is counted as the first day of the week funnily enough like um certain you know like uh i don't know what they're called but you know when you have like a scheduled uh like pills like medications they'll oftentimes in their boxes go sunday to saturday oh okay like you know across the line so yeah i just put a calendar in here and sunday is the first day on it too i just don't think that makes much sense that's all what probably does when we go back through history and figure out why it was that way but yeah um intuitively we think of monday as the beginning of the week of the week yeah well like it makes sense to be around there because like sunday is the mandated day off right and there's the mandated day off uh i guess it makes sense for it to be sunday or monday the Sabbath is Saturday is the Sabbath right but it's sunday now isn't it really or i guess it depends on what denomination you are typically yeah in christianity generally like you go to you know sunday morning time to go to church bring your things at 20 21 is the beginning of the decade no it's 2020 because 20 would be the beginning of 20 how is that even remotely analogous you should be hours that you even said that oh no i think i think also um also it kind of is no it's not because 2000 because we started in the 40s so no because we started uh we started with the year one so if you start from there we started with the year zero right didn't we i'm pretty sure we started with the year one wouldn't there be a zero right someone call up justin i'm pretty sure there isn't because my dad talks all the time about how that isn't a year zero ad and if there is he's been lying to me hold on wait i need to know is that true is that is there let me google just a second let me google what was the first year what was the first year no it says it says 81 or 81 period that never actually existed in the usual calendar one goes from one bc to one ad in skip zero okay and then bring btf owed by google he's a christ yeah what do you mean he's just took a shit on your chest so what so when we think about so you're saying that 2000 was the last year of the 90s no i'm not saying that because that's fucking okay i'm just saying that you kind of in that way but right well someone in 2021 actually is the first year of the decade and that just sounds like some bullshit to me i don't see how that makes any sense the 20th century is not the same classification as the 90s the 90s refers to the 90s while the 20th century the 90s the 90s so if you want if you want like one bc to like 10 bc to be a decade and you want one ad to um hang on i'm confused now i'm i think i'm not too upset about the middle of about ad on having an ad zero and that's like the dividing line between ad and bc like i'm fine with that being a special thing i guess it's just um that's it so there was just this one decade that is actually not a decade it's nine years technically well which which one unless you want to include one bc in that decade but one bc would be part of the proceeding one right wait wait wait no hold on no yeah let me google what is the shortest decade because it would be if you have 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 that's it would be 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 are you counting if i can hear you counting on your fingers i'm not actually i was about to start though i've got my i'm wrapped in my hand as i'm working backward okay so if you have 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 that would be a whole decade if there's no zero bc or ad damn that's like a well if you want that to be a decade then you include one like if you want the decade to have 10 fucking years in it you include one bc and then if you include everything before that as a decade then you've got the decade starting at two bc or like ending at two bc and then starting at like 11 bc the conclusion from this would have to be that there is one decade in our calendar that is an incomplete decade because definitely the decade's work now is like 19, 19 to 99 would be well it is complete it's incompleteness because it is it is part of the complete timeline of this calendar that probably isn't great in terms of reflecting the totality of human existence well we also didn't have leap years until like the 1400s i'm pretty sure so if we'd been accounting for leap years the whole time the date would be significantly different i think a year and 30 days different so someone's right it would be two decades because not the bc would be 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 so even if there was a year at zero one has to lose out in order for this to work there has to be at least one decade that is incomplete but in this case it's two i think they're all dead so they don't mean that much i'm sure they don't mind i guess i'm just wondering why they would leave behind the system i think i think i'm actually enough of a dividing point that having technically one decade only being nine years at the very beginning and having all of them being just fine after that is yeah i guess you would accept that as the trade-off nevertheless the chat because year i was applied on sunday was the i didn't agree with that your points are still not apt um what super chat are we currently responding to no i what i can't remember what the super chat was it was just asking whether it was sunday or monday what's your opinion on years i think they said what day is the first day of the week and what time zone what time zone i guess it'd be uh the utc is the first time zone isn't it the way chosen what is the or is the utc both the first and last because that's like the dividing line gmt well gmt is the one that they all are based around but like it's not the first one chronologically in our time that we've decided utc is or have i no utc or is utc the one at the very end because it says it's 52 that's what it is right now sunday it is 52 zero 12 52 wait no no that's not what the clock yeah 12 53 is what it is now utc plus 12 is that the first one then okay damn just give me a lot give me the map where is the map uh okay so utc zero is uh that's greenwich meantime time time and so it'd be uh utc 12 would be the first one you could put it in your drinks it could be greenwich mean teen green which means time in greenwich green which wait rags were you is that how you think it's pronounced i don't even know what it is i thought you were naming it's grudge me grenet g re and n i c h don't play grudges with me ock and soul man no i no i no i legit no i i'm not counting you i just don't know about this word i no i'm not complaining i i legit just don't know about greenwich mean time yes you do you must have i know i know i've heard of gmt but if you ask people what gmt stood for i don't i don't think i would have said really because i heard greenwich mean time before gmt same oh well shit you discovered me well i guess i'm just curious because yeah i i know i just never i knew of gmt that's what you guys use to for like e-fap and stuff but i never knew well that's what more are used in britain britain's like neutral time is gmt plus zero if you will but then when we get into summertime is plus one or bst british summertime no british time is gmt which is utc plus zero and bst is your summertime that's to be what did i say that was wrong i think you said gmt plus zero which is kind of like that's not wrong redundant it's called zero it's kind of redundant because gmt is that is that is utc plus zero but i use it specifically to say that it becomes plus one in british summertime oh because we i've used british i've used gmt plus one before so i didn't want to confuse by saying it's gmt not mentioning the plus one fair enough uh we all learned something i learned that there's no year zero which i'm pretty sure i did know i don't know i'm pretty sure that was something i did know momentarily a schedule leamus tangent in e-fap history wow no we're you're about to say rags in this tangent like we talked about how we want to spend an hour talking about gen jeb bush yeah that's awesome i guess it's for the best tangent well you're about to ask have i seen the film year one starring jack black no i was about to ask if you guys have seen 10 000 bc the one where the man is called the fairness roll in emiric no i've not is that going to be in our roll in emiric i'd be on board that i also want to watch apocalyptic again i would love to see apocalyptic again because the first time i saw it i liked it quite a bit and i wonder if it holds i remember liking it a whole bunch i think the best proof of that would be the the the crew that never fucking gets together that 2001 bc or i guess 9999 bc i wasn't alive then i couldn't see it you were shut up yeah we need uh yeah yeah 10 000 bc for e-fap movies we'll do it but we'll do it for the 10 000th e-fap movie yes we'll see you all in 21 57 that we'll get on like two weeks and i'll actually wait no that is optimistic it's probably more like 2500 in what sentence would you use both kenobi and good and they've given an example want to watch kenobi nah i'm good kenobi what about what about uh kenobi is not good whoa yeah i like that one damn no that one yeah i wouldn't perfect how about kenobi good no what about like you're watching you're like you're like halfway through watching kenobi and you go good i've gone blind that's a good meme question mohler did you ever find out what a disney fanatical star wars movie was if not do you think what do you think he bet i think what the point you're trying to make there was that it's disney's take now the the continuity of the prior like universe being i guess we'd call it george lucas is is no longer what isn't what disney adhered to because it's disney's like fanatical star wars universe they get to do what they want to do with their movies which isn't even a good argument if that's what he meant because they contradict their own rules all the fucking time anyway so yeah that's it um butchoo man versus the banana saviour the banana saviour i i i don't know what any of that is but i like the idea of like a superhero who saves banana it was a freeze like banana saviour obviously no i said banana saviour with an upward inflection yeah he was asking who he was that's why i said i don't know who he is i do like the idea that the metal interpreted that as you say the banana saviour wins hands down yeah i was like yeah that's not for sure i am i am as perplexed as you are i don't know my brain is shutting down now he was coming up now so all right fine yeah it is i agree with for you i'm putting the money on the banana saviour too he wins sorry i missed sorry i missed quite a few of these so today i have two neat animals the pygmy gerboa is the first one wow this already sounds interesting man i've heard of them whoa kirk has not talked about them they're like i think they're the smallest mammal they have to they are their heart beat is super duper fast and they got to eat a lot of food every hour yeah you're saying what yeah they're in a they're in a kosher's art video i would look at that a little dude this this seems like the kind of critter that would be a really wise character in an animal animated thing because it's so small there's little whiskers too that's suitable he he would have all the knowledge sorry what was the college uh and it's called the pygmy gerboa and most second one oh my god what the fuck is that i think it's the smallest mammal uh i think that's what it is i i just wasn't i just wasn't ready to be for confronted by this image is no no way is this real it's only four centimeters hang on over that was green though and what is funny i don't hear ones i i think i have a problem with the title of that headline meet belucha stan pygmy gerboa the only rodent he will find cute um fuck you that's not true there's a kind of cute rodents rodents are very cute rodents are cute what a ridiculous outline from the india today i'm actually with jay now is this one real is this like a little doll or something no i just hmm this one in particular it looks like it's got really big feet he looks he looks like he's he really looks like it's a stop motion fantastical thing i think that one's real i i just i don't know look at all of these pictures i'm still not convinced it's a real species these are like if an alien species came across a chicken nugget and was asked to reconstruct it this is what they think they were told it was living oh i guess yeah we just killed it cut off the tail and the ears and the legs and threw it in the fryer and it's a chicken maybe the the tail is because they there was a french fry next to it and so they thought that was this tail no like oh my god they separated it out it's horrifying um the second was the longhorned orb the longhorned orb weaver spider holy fuck oh let's have a look at this i think we've been shown this before but at the same time i'm surprised enough that i don't know that one looks like a bug that would be quite a spooky thing to see though thinking about it if the horns are like strong enough you could just hold the horn it's fucked right i guess not that we don't have massive control over spiders anyway but like you know this one is just icing on the cake this is just humiliation yeah because you just hold one of the ones like oh fuck you like you got me by my horn like you you dick oh very clever no one has ever done that one before now let me down the name you know it's accurate well it the longhorned part is accurate i don't know that it weaves orbs how do you know that i said i don't know that i literally just said i don't know that it weeps weeps orbs what does it mean to weave a thing i don't want to know it's probably nasty i'm looking at stuff it has wove and it's not orbs it's webs it's webs or web orbs whipples no they're not they're not orbs they're just they're just flat i think more people are waking up to the disney shows being bad mando boba to now obi one i've seen more people get soured on it maybe wishful thinking to be fair i think boba is still the worst out of three oh maybe obi one well i mean i just like obi one more i know i the i agree but embarrassing yeah boba is really fucking embarrassing god what were they doing it seems to roll on board with the idea that mando season one is probably the best out of the lot but it's just not something that needs highlighting because it's also shit um right you remember how early on when we were talking about crypto stuff you were like yeah i know people are holding up so apparently like on r slash bitcoin oh wait no that's tweets from like 2021 in any case there was some post on some crypto forum where it was just if you need help and it had this it had the uh the the suicide hotline on jesus christ that's don't kill yourself please no well it's just it's crippling financial losses or a scary thing um yeah as the whole do they uh people coming around on realizing the show is a bad i would probably go as far as saying uh that's probably gonna it's the same kind of cycle we've been dealing with where as soon as the new one is announced they'll get super high like and all i'm sure and all first episode will be considered amazing um who knows if that show will actually end up being better than these ones you know i'm i'm actually i think i have a level of curiosity with and or now just because the production seems so different than the ones we've seen so far this one looks like what do you mean because i don't know anything about and or the there was a behind the scenes feature i think it came out with the the star wars conventiony thing or one of them that was announcing all the shows and the amount of like work that looks like it's gone into and or and then if you look at the trailer it looks much more like a movie and that got put into a tv show than something like boba fett or even kanobi which still blows my mind that kanobi wasn't given better treatment in terms of uh you'd think the kanobi show would get and or and or i feel like um boba fett was made in the same way that kanobi and mando have been but had like the least amount of spending money but they've all been kind of like the same sort of way and or i'm curious if it's been made in a different way and thus maybe it could have a chance of being better because it wasn't and or the tv show one of the like earliest ones we were aware of and it's just taking a while to come out yeah they've been working on it for a while so yeah i'm curious about that one um but yeah i just same for marvel same for star wars i think that the hype is a cycle and people may turn on the tv shows faster i guess time goes on that's about all you can hope for when they just let me know when frick is out i will boba frick yeah that's that's what we're all excited to see on iran for yes did rlm edit out i want to see fricking jaja i want to see jaja but i also don't want to see jaja because it'll be disney yeah they'll ruin jaja unironically they'll ruin jaja um did rlm edit out the discussion of riva i don't remember them talking about riva so oh just to be clear what we watched wasn't the full yeah video well yeah so they're asking if rlm edited out from because they don't talk about riva really in the video no but they do talk about how tall darth vader is for 12 minutes so i think what they're asking us is do you but think they may have talked about her and then they edited it out oh i i don't i mean maybe she came up but i don't know i don't know they had a very unstructured discussion and i don't really i don't know which normally is totally fine but it was just bizarre as you guys saw like what we showed you in terms of that supercut was still linear like in terms of the timeline of the video and it's just a lot of still feels very unfocused in a sense like probably would have been a way better discussion if they had more time to think on what they think of the show i guess because uh it seemed like they were trying to discover positions as they were explaining them it's so weird to think about that mike would go as far as saying like it is kind of trash he's guilty of enjoying it when he shouldn't be in blah blah blah but then also being like he reckons there's a chance that it's going to get ruined with the second season mm-hmm like those statements just give off very different vibes lord long bong of mueslington abbey is there any good chance of a kong fap of peter jackson's long kong when there's less going on it'd be a movie fap for the ages yes there were wagsies scritches for the good boy hello super chat before no that's a new one uh yeah we we we all we have some interest in doing a bit of a long kong sometime well yeah i'm bored of that someday hi rags that is all hello oh all right yeah hello to you i'm gonna leave you guys alone now i'm getting very sleepy okay but we just sleep well now okay certainly try you won't try the sound he makes you don't know that i do know because i made that sound oh my god damn bomb bomb bomb are you and i'll see a new battle's forged tomorrow sub points what's it about when you talk about it's uh sure was it a crisis on two earths dc animated with a repository to me that's a win yet but he's not online right now so yeah it's gonna be tomorrow karner big cool okay that's it good bye as far as i know bye bye bye why i'm gonna do the same i think actually what have you got what metals forge are you releasing um i'm releasing metals forge on every star trek tng episode for the next three years that's true that is what i'm doing that with for the next three years we will be doing every star trek tng episode one per week so if you are in the e-fap audience you were thinking it'll be so cool to hear two people from the e-fap verse go through every episode of tng and talk about it you're in luck this is on the lord of milk i don't know it's just metal and jay oh yeah you could just if you youtube metal and jay and tng you'll find how many are out is it for it's called um jay and metals star trek podcast so just search that and you'll find it i will feel it called yes that's what we called it i talked to him about it rags i'm sorry i couldn't convince him did you really talk to him about it yeah i tried they just wouldn't what what what do you mean metal star trek podcast yeah there are currently five episodes out so it's not too late to change the tiles what you're saying uh yeah what what's wrong what's do you have a complaint it just seems so uninspired because it is that's the that's the joke self-awakened yes anyway i'm very sleepy so i'm gonna go to bed all right you sleep well thanks for joining us check out jay's channel you make videos about how things are gay yeah like dog bites isn't no dog bites is great dog bites is legit good that's a good name i do appreciate the joke though of calling jay metal star trek podcast all right good bye can't believe metal allowed the show to be called jay and metals podcast not metal and jay gosh mali gotta stand up for yourself just like adam and sitch all over again and ironically i thought it was called adam and sitch when when i went to look up the podcast when i was on it i went adam and sitch because it just rolls off the tongue better and it's alphabetical oh dude i kept saying it without like real like it wasn't a conscious decision to do it wrong but then i just started enjoying it and then i was like you know what it is better as adam and sitch everyone feels this way one day adam will get justice yeah because because we did it it'd be well there's three of us and that starts to get a little wordy but yeah yeah well because people felt it was like molar and rags or rags and mohla i don't know mohler and rags like calvin and hobs yeah it does the two syllable one syllable like it it's it's alphabetical yeah and you end it and rags it's really nice and neat mohler and rags i think so but we were we we were very clever and we had our audience come up with a really good name and they came up with every fap uh what what are we called every pod every f up any any any pause a frame any any pause i'm just thinking about that two syllables and one that's that's actually a pretty common thing stoskey and hutch rachman clank well except the jack and dexter i guess that's not the other way around tucker and dale tucker and dale um what else that's a good movie everyone should see tucker and dale first it's really it's i do i do quite love that movie uh just for what it does some of them fucking jokes are great they're really good i thoroughly enjoyed watching that's an easy fap movies i think as well you have to get some people who haven't seen it before uh what was the out of 10 score for everything everywhere all at once movie you didn't say hmm i don't know i think it gets to it gets into a weird place because the the nature of the jumping bodies and the power levels it's just kind of odd i'm not really i really really love it but i'm honestly kind of not sure i think i tried to remember talking to fringy about some of the things i was trying to find was digging into the script in terms of inconsistencies and coincidences there's a couple i would probably like knee-jerk reaction of set eight out of 10 is probably like seven um but i would easily say like uh in terms of feels like easy 11 out of 10 for me i fucking love that movie it is high up on the feels chart definitely i would have been happy if this had been a six episode limited series of Ben on Tatooine dealing with PTSD post revenge of the Sith and talking with Qui-Gon Jyn's ghost and having visions of Anakin yep i guess they're too afraid of the idea that people wouldn't be interested in that i guess yeah soul it is for whatever reason yeah don't get it rlm the Jedi are boring because they talk like robots also rlm we love spark cuz he's smart and talks slowly love spark by the way play mgr mohler i'm sure they would say in response to that that spark has a very particular like upbringing and and the the species has a style that involves like and that they think he does come up with like interesting logical things to say while they would consider all the dialogue from the Jedi to be boring and like unmeaningful and whatever the when they say the Jedi talk like robots they're saying that as criticism of it's incongruent with who they are supposed to be people this is a bad acting thing while spark is like that is how he's characterized i'm pretty sure that's how they would argue it i find Darth mold be a seriously interesting character especially considering his background by background by clone tv show doing clone wars i'm guessing so um if he loses his hatred for Kenobi he physically dies repercussions of the dark side what that does not sound interesting to me that if he stops hating Kenobi he dies sounds weird but um okay i don't know like i'm fine with the idea like on a base level of being so fucking angry that you can keep yourself going like it's an adrenaline boost it's like there there's some physiological stuff to that but i feel like they drag it out just to shatter the hedgehog eventually with this stuff where it's like your hatred has consumed you and thus it keeps you alive now and if you stop hating me i don't know your blood stops pumping or something it's just like okay turns out hatred is not a vegan thoughts on top gun maverick drastic will dominion and stranger things season four so it'll have to go fringy none of us and then me oh right a top gun um i think the third act seriously hurts that film i think the third acts kind of a bit nonsense really um and so much so that or maybe not so much so but more so that um i don't know that the character work is fine there are some parts of it that are good but none of it is so like mind-blowing that i think it overrides how absurd they are the last like 30 minutes are um i like it though this is fun movie there's some cool action it's just that that third act man like um coincidence or convenience i suppose i'd still recommend it though i think i think it's it's it's fun fair enough uh yeah i haven't seen it i wouldn't mind seeing it at some point i just don't know what i'm gonna fit in and uh have you seen original top gun rags no i have not i haven't either maybe someday we can make that a double bill or something i don't know yeah drastic will dominion none of us three have seen that uh there would likely be something of a plan in some way shape or form at some point to to cover it maybe all the Jurassic Park movies yeah i would i would like to do that it's too i would like to do that yeah it's too much of an opportunity to not take advantage of arc being in the title you know it'd be an efab movies for the ages as for stranger things season four um famously i have said on efab several times season one i like a whole bunch to the point where i was even tempted when i first saw it to make some kind of video on it talking about what i thought was really well done about it maybe that'll happen one day who knows uh season two i was super excited and as soon as we found out when it was coming out myself i think even metal at this point he if you were here i'd ask i can't remember if you remember but a smiley for tear and a fifth guy i think we were all in a discord call and we were all watching it together and i believe it was halfway through either the second or third episode that smiley dipped out and said this is too shit to continue he can't do it um which was really sad but we kept on going and i think it was halfway through the season that we all said this is kind of funny to compare right so we all said we will continue it um after we've gone to sleep basically and it was like okay bye everybody um do you guys remember blind matter when we were watching that and we were like actually getting frustrated that we may not be able to watch all of it in the one night yes i do remember we were all so fucking invested in seeing what happened next um so yeah uh basically strangest thing season two we finished it up then and we were just like yep so that was horrible um and then i got retempted to make a video because i was like strange thing season two is so awful compared to the first season i'd love to explain why and i never did season three comes out i ignored it and then fortia was like i want to watch it with someone please and i was like fine and it was even worse than season two and what was neat this time around is that a lot of people in the world were like yeah that was bad that was really bad and i was like yay this isn't i don't have to deal with everyone saying season three is great then everyone says season four is announced after a couple years and i was like that's hilarious i'm not watching it and then it came out and i saw some people saying like it is pretty good though i was like yeah and then some people i actually trust for their opinions were like it isn't terrible i was like isn't terrible it's a fun and so um i had some free time in the last week that were between doing different things here and there while editing as well and i was like i'll throw it on uh first episode was quite interesting because to give you a brief understanding without spoilers they've kind of reset their show a little bit it really comes across as though they've had this moment of like okay season three was a fucking disaster we need to stop and think about what our story even is because one of the big things that uh a spoiler pointed out back in the day was that season one is contained you don't need to go any further but of course they will because strange things are super popular and it has a cliffhanger so there you go um but season two was like a terrible copy of season one and it was just like uh oh they don't have a plan they didn't have a story to tell beyond season one we're in trouble and season three is this embarrassing mess that clearly came as a result of like we've got to get a story out go go go season four feels like they sat down and thought about all the different things they should actually try and build toward we've got new characters that are pretty interesting we've got a new i say new villain they've contextualized him to try and account for prior continuity but he's definitely a new guy in terms of like i remember when i saw the trailer season four he's like commentating or narrating it i think being like uh it's time and you know that they'll never escape me just generic sort of villainy lines i was just who the fuck is this guy um and then uh i watched the first episode and for anybody in chat who has seen this the first episode's ending yeah i was like um okay i'll keep watching this i'm just curious where this goes and um i think i watched episode four and i was quite impressed i really enjoyed the story that happens in episode four uh again trying to remain spoiler free while also giving enough clues to people who have seen it to know what i'm talking about i found the story of that character going through that thing to be quite compelling i thought she did a really good job and uh i actually finished the season or the half season today and um i'm happy with it i was asked by a friend already is like is it better than season one i was like i don't think so i guess i'd have to rewatch season one um but i enjoyed it enough about the sound of it well so funnily enough it's kind of slow it depending on how they finish out with these next two episodes um it's like right behind angel season five for one of the best examples of trying to repair your story when it's gone so fucking awry um interesting yeah there's loads of choices they've made in season four that i find so interesting in terms of getting your narrative back on track where it was falling apart to the point where they have genuinely like they've reset the origin story let's put it for the good guys powers and the bad guys world slash uh operations they have taken what we all knew and move pieces around and reset the story just so that they can definitely facilitate whatever ending they're going with next um because they apparently it's ending with season five and it seems to me that what they did was stop and then write out a story with purpose for four and five probably and then made it which is swear to god if that's what they did it's like thank you all you need to do is take more time with writing and you'll end up with something so much better yeah so um i liked it uh how good it is is i would hesitate to say without maybe giving it a rewatch there's a couple of contrivances and i would happily agree there's a couple of one-dimensional characters that literally only exist to have the reactions they require for character to have in the situations to facilitate certain results it's like oh great that's the character that ended up here because if it were anyone else they probably do this reasonably but because it's them they're going to do that and then they do and you're like yeah yeah there you go but i think that the um let's say the the the the main characters they have a lot of good stuff going on so um yeah i don't know i'll be interested to see how they end the story and as for would i recommend it for someone who's maybe will watch the first three seasons uh yes if you got through season three you'll definitely be a little like this would i recommend it as someone to just jump into season four without seeing season one two and three interesting enough i think you can they provide you enough context to understand it they give you flashbacks and then lines to sort of contextualize what you're missing um you could and i guess it's one way to start up the show if you wanted to one of the complaints i've seen from a lot of people is that a lot of nothing happens uh they're like an hour and a half at long episodes well some of them are i think maybe but i don't know what to say about that i can't i can't disagree necessarily because i was editing while watching some of this it was only by episode four the show and uh monitor one privileges so you know it was uh you have to see how it goes for for those who watch it i don't know i am here that is my spoiler free assessment there you go your things hey there mola i just finished soma and it was the most profound gaming experience ever without you i would never have heard about it my rags i just finished a bunch of videos love you stuff hello i really do appreciate that thank you just god damn it jay just ah jay dammit am i allowed to show that on stream probably not it's it's it's it's no i actually didn't mean it's only that you can show the justice league on well the the reason i like he hasn't sent it yet yeah like it's an unsaid yet jay you have to jay why do you do this to yourself why why it gives you energy i because like just in case i'll show it the second jay approves okay come on jay say yes because the this is like the perfect tweet for i would say the efab fandom well i guess while we wait you have to spell you have to spell the name correct from tweet just to be clear no i don't even i love the fact that it's not capitalized at star that's okay all right all right okay um all right well until jay approves i will i will say uh it's great to hear more people play soma and super glad you apparently enjoyed the fuck out of it good stuff absolutely very glad that you enjoyed that game uh what was the most realistic action slash fight scene you've ever watched in a movie disregard boxing or mma movies realistic action or fight scene that you've ever seen in the movie um because there's probably a lot but i have to like think i have to sift through all of the action scenes i've seen it's gonna have to be a clock against thawed in man of steel that was easy pick do you think it would be something like something from savor private ryan or i wonder if the with the spirit of the question they'd feel that should be disqualified as well because it's a very uh i wonder if that what they want probably is for us to select something like um hector and achilles so it's like still kind of fantasy-ish but full load the rings right like like aragon and um lute yeah well there's like realistic choreography but not a fully grounded fight scene between like i like you wouldn't you wouldn't think of like the in saving private ryan as a fight scene you know like it's it is a fight and it's happening in a scene but you don't really think of it that way i guess yeah like you uh where you would call aragon and let's a boss fight you wouldn't say that about any of the fights in saving private ryan i don't think it feels around and it feels off it does um let me see but are there some in early game of thrones that you might pull the problem is i feel like i'm ill equipped to say that's gotta be like i would so want to defer to shad because um there are fights that i like more than others and and you know when they like have the cavalry charging alone i can tell when stuff like that is unrealistic but when you have like people clanging swords together in different strikes and moves sometimes i can't tell if that's a you know legit move or not or a legit defense or not so um there are like for those who would know uh brawn versus um uh what's his name um so savardus i think it was brawn versus savardus that was a pretty cool fight i wonder how shad would feel about that one um but yeah i you know to be fair i wouldn't put it in my head now so maybe that's why i want to pick it but like aragon versus lord's launce what what what even alerts was uh i remember that one feeling particularly uh raw in a compared to a lot of lord the rings fights and i think it's because the fact that both of them get really bloodied when when doing that fight um and the punches feel really hard uh it seemed to be really hard anyway i mean the guy he did hey a real knife was thrown so hound versus the mountain fuck no you have received permission to show the name this was the meme people of that i feel like i don't even need to read it out that's just something you appreciate if you can see it visually it's it's such a spicy you know somehow it's saying uh the wikipedia link is just makes it even funnier again like it's just a picture it's one thing but there's no wikipedia it's all there it gives it this this official kind of you know nature jay is literally for shitposts i think that's true yeah i like it did jay tweet it out after or no i don't know wow i guess it doesn't matter now it's it exists we can only hope given his blessing uh sorry yeah but any other answers for that question or we uh we're running out we're on the fume segment of of eva right now yeah i'm yeah sorry i yeah i just don't really know of a lot that come to mind that are like it's less to do is yeah it's not to do with me running out of uh fights to be able to reference is more so like it filters down through all the fights in your mind you know like kill bill and i don't think any of those fights are realistic i don't really know um because a lot of them are very fantastical like like in stylistic so i guess they wouldn't be considered i don't know would would the raid fights be considered realistic or are they a bit too fantastic you know like crouching tiger hidden dragon i think anyone's calling those realistic right well they used to fight like that but they just don't anymore it's uh falling out of style gosh darn yeah i think i would probably just want to um uh sort of kill bills all nonsense they're awesome but not realistic yeah that's so that's kind of where i'm at i'm just like i feel like i i'm struggling to give good examples of what i would consider to be the greatest realistic fights the black knight fight from modi python maybe there's maybe there's one or is what about if you think kingdom of heaven might have one right maybe when how would i remember that movie i'm having trouble remembering it myself because that movie is so fucking dull but i was curious that's why i ask like maybe i just need help kind of remembering it probably was a fight in that movie yeah i think i think there i think things happened in that film at some points i think there's probably some stuff that happened i think i did have a plot oh mission possible fallout bathrooms fight scene that was pretty cool i don't know i like that i don't know how it scores on the realism chart but yeah john wick uh maybe maybe the first one is um like in his house i'd have to watch him again yeah i'd have to watch him again the fish slap dance the fish slap dance to us that's probably what would happen yes uh that's one of those jokes where if someone watches it that just goes i don't get it i'd be like and you'd never go to because that's just that's just how it works well oh best fight from nobody i saw on youtube that um i haven't seen the movie i just saw that fight on youtube as a clip for a promotion for it and i think that might be up there i'd have to rewatch it again just to make sure but i remember watching it i was like oh that's that's not good like that ah that's very unpleasant people kept uh recommended nobody and then i finally watched it and that bus scene i ain't forgetting that anytime soon that was uh satisfying as hell to watch i think they're making it a second nobody though i'm already like oh no nobody to ye nobody else maybe but all right that's the best we could do uh who other than obi and annie could beat grievous according to clone wars the gungans can yeah we we saw total booba at the alien uh robot man to be fair if they threw like a thousand boobas at a group grievous he probably would struggle with that oh my god just load those things into a cannon like grapeshaw dude i'm picturing a starship that's from naboo like but gungan starship just firing a laser worth of blue balls char's on the side we still have that blue ball just a massive shotgun pellet spray of boobas oh you could intercut like the people and return to the jet i just screaming as the star destroyer just blowed up by the boobas uh he literally starts and ends the clone wars yeah the the thing about like it was like what effect does obi one really have or the plot line is that's not let's never ask that question please if you like war movies and are fine with subtitles i'd recommend unknown soldier from 2017 it's a very good finish war movie fair enough am i right uh younglings and Jedi initiates have practiced lightsabers that are low powered to where it creates minor cuts and burns they create their fp1 later i just why not go all the way and just say they don't do any damage at all except that they like little batons all right because i can believe that it exists in universe little shocky sticks essentially that take the place of lightsabers but i really wish there was like a a line where they either show it in the background one of them getting hit and he just goes like you know that kind of thing or they one of them hits it against their hand just to you know test the strength of it before that something like it would have been it would have been a really cool instead of him instead of a lot of things that happen in those damn movies a scene where we watched some Jedi training actually taking play that between Anakin and obi one and they're they're sparring right and obi one keeps he keeps hitting Anakin because he's teaching them and they're learning and then eventually Anakin gets a hit on obi one and that's kind of like the payoff at the end is he's learning he's getting better and we can see the you know lightsabers in action or something and maybe they're like obnoxiously orange colored and at the hilt or there's a particular color that they put out so that you know it's a safety one something like that there's there's things that could have done it would have been neat would have been neat that would be great for the conversation about inference versus writing for the writers right because i could easily see someone being like no those legit lightsabers and is fucking stupid because they don't tell us anything anything different so we shouldn't assume anything different and uh it's indicative of like how idiotic the Jedi blah blah blah why is there's someone else could be like why would you assume that instead of the the idea that they're obviously safety lightsabers and why do they have to explain that should be obvious you know it's like where's the line on that one and i just be like i uh i'm they i mean they seem to it's not something that you have to go out of your way to explain maybe it's one of the reasons why it would be so easy to show it it would just be an incidental part of the training sequences you see between a relationship that you really need to be building up as important and meaningful um i think even an aragon the the novel that i read ages ago there was a spell that they would cast on swords to dull them so that when they were sparring they didn't kill each other which is pretty important you don't want all your soldiers and warriors dying in training before they can fight that would be that'd be new yeah which is in a sense where the inference comes from right it'd be like it would be too absurd if those were real lightsabers just way too absurd yeah so you can't assume that's like a bad faith assumption and i think that's kind of how you have to categorize it though i think i i can't do anything but conclude exactly what you said which is like there should be one reference just something and it can be subtle too just come on give us give us a chance here just to just to be able to go see it's that done even if they were a special color you never saw in any other lightsaber that only the younglings used that's enough for my my mind to go yep these are training lightsabers and if the handles were like an obnoxious orange or yellow color or they had these little things like that would be nice to see Kenobi sucked from episode one a young jedi goes to him asking for help and closure instead of telling hide and wait for the fight he tells me to go bury his lightsaber the fight is over not the jedi code i know um yeah in retrospect i'm not sure i feel about that scene i had lots of thoughts at once when i first saw it is this like what would obi one do with that guy and it's like well if we can lay out all of the concerns he would have like one he doesn't want to be found as a result of this guy being found because it compromises luke it's like i can understand that yeah but he is obi one kenobi and this is a jedi who's on the run and probably a good person so it's like so he's gonna want to help him right like yeah this is a moment that you use to explore the kind of person he's become after 10 years hiding would he legitimately send this jedi is it possible that after 10 years he might legit send this jedi knowingly to his death if it were if he knew that it would take the scent off of tatooine and therefore luke i think i um if we were writing it and uh you know one of us said yeah it should be that he sends this jedi off to essentially you know like he just doesn't care about his fate i think we would have to be like i don't think we can do that can we no we should be that would have to be something that you really justify hard and i think that would be tough and i wouldn't go that route it would now i can absolutely believe a reluctance to get involved because of the stakes and what might happen but ultimately a concession that this is a jedi they are in a similar situation to me i can't just leave them um i have a bit of hope with and or as it's a side project being written by tony gilroy and other academy award winning writers hopefully that will make the plot functional hi rags hello listen i i'm more than on board are giving it a shot for those reasons and uh you know we shall see you all don't understand order 66 not only forces the clones to execute the jedi it also gives them the brain eating disease what what brain eating disease how are they supposed to kill the jedi if their brains get it is it a slow acting disease i assume is it is that like it is like an insurance policy where once the deed is done they all get killed so they don't read the word or something that helped me out what's the brain eating disease i is it the kuru do they give them the kuru oh maybe it's a joke i can't tell with star wars anymore which is ultimately i know i was i was legit gonna say i can't tell because it's the clone wars and i've heard some weird fucking shit about what happens in the clone wars i think they just mean stormtroopers are done okay all right we all good we all good okay all right my clothes things up things up see there's an in-universe explanation for everything when i'm in a dick riding contest i think i'm up against the star wars twitter account that's all it says oh okay all right how did you have like a strategy that you employ to ride the dick the best or may i don't know what is it the is it the amount of dicks that you ride or the quality of writing particular dicks or i don't know how one would judge the the winner of that kind of a contest you think i would but i actually don't kick princess j ragbo wagons ragbo wagons j has been kicked all good everything has been a piece j has gone j's no more he's absconded with his knight or me this is why the younglings had to wear helmets for tai chi being tapped on the head is extremely dangerous should i take osha seriously apparently uh it was the force touch from hidden dragon oh the uh the the blast getting moved i think is what they're saying slaps are more dangerous than lightsabers in disney probably yeah of your stormtrooper yeah they're friggin completely incapacitating dude that i was already thinking to myself like i see where she does that's like well what are our options i guess you just be like well what if she accounted for this she knew ahead of time that she very likely would be potentially arrested and so she's got something in her hand ready maybe some kind of flashbang that she brought with her something like that why not why'd you have to make it so she slapped one of them in the face that is like the dumbest shit and then it's and we're always forgetting what she does afterward she just like grabs the the the helmet of the other and like just pulls it forward it's the kind of thing where someone does to you and you're like what do you stop what are you doing not like oh no i've i've lost the ability to maneuver my limbs i'm stunned there were tons of practical effects in the prequels true they get overshadowed a bit by the excessive cgi though what some of the cgi is downright bizarre oh yeah i mean that's bad cgi in the prequels for sure i kind of hate how non-cgi effects are referred to as practical because it somewhat implies cgi is unnecessary oh do you like the classic definition of what is practical as opposed to just thinking of it as meaning it's not done digitally it's done physically perhaps unnecessary was the wrong term i more so mean that practical has the connotation of meaning optimal and to me it somewhat implies cgi isn't sometimes the practical choice i understand what you're saying yeah um i know what they're saying yeah like i said we we we try to push back a little on the cg hate i don't like it it's not a good it's not a good attitude it's not one that you can defend i don't think not you certainly not easily whenever i see anything from rlm about star wars it's like they can't let the prequels be better than new stuff i kind of got that sense uh i hate to pull that card right but like i don't i think it's true that they think the prequels are basically the worst star wars ever got uh including the new stuff i think they'd be willing to conceive that the riser skywalker is gotta be at least on the level with the prequels but you could tell they really fucking hate the prequels the prequels are what killed their love of star wars so of course they feel passionate about that um it's and it's weird because like a lot of people i know there's plenty of you in the audience some people their love was ignited by the prequels so you know it can be awkward to listen to sometimes because we see such a borderline between the quality of the prequels and the quality of like the sequels or some of these shows or some of the things that happen to them i think yeah um i don't mind them hating the prequels i would just prefer if they didn't rely on referencing how bad the prequels are to prop up something like the kanobi show like what are you what what um i think their argument unmind too is the use of unnecessary CGI like the cafe seen in black widow why wasn't it just a practical set the thing is i i i've said this before in e-fab i think it was the no way home when we did i have come around on that because they could very well be an incredibly good reason why that was green screened uh for all i know and um it just as an example because we brought it up before but people will be like why the fuck did they green screen the flash being in like a like a house or whatever it's like seriously you can't just put him in a house and record it and it's like they didn't have access to the actor on the set at the same time because of covid restrictions and stuff and so that was the solution at least that's uh as i understand it and at the very least theoretically that's possible and so i just think that it would be very easy for any of us to be in the situation of getting these scenes done on a timeline and being like look we can record this and we can composite him on it'll look a little flat um but it'll get the con like the important events of the scenes done whereas we wouldn't have them otherwise i actually made this was it this evap because things are starting to fall apart from my mind um where i was saying like if everything was forced to not rely on cg at all while simultaneously having the same release dates i'm pretty sure these movies would fall apart like you have to get everything done practically uh with the same deadlines i'm pretty sure they would all instead of just having some shoddy cgi in lots of different scenes they would just have downright unfinished scenes and you have to just watch really awkward shit happening um so even with the black widow example there could be a very good reason for that uh and i think that what we need to rely on instead of questioning why they would have done that we should instead say did you notice and if i'm being completely honest i definitely didn't i thought it was all real and that seems to me what the what the issue with no way home was a lot of people thought that those scenes were real until they were shown that they weren't real so um is it much of a problem if you can't tell at all or is it just a curiosity at that point which by the way totally fair to have that curiosity i would like the answer for why they couldn't just film on a bench but uh they could there could be a reason joel invented cgi to ruin movies bastard i was saying he's behind it all something needs to stop this man correlation equals causation the existence of e-fab is causing bad movies mola what have you done also high rags hello to you to be fair there are some people who uh do support that idea like they think cinema sins and people like me are making movies bad because movies movies listen to our criticisms and it's just like that's fucking hilarious that you think we have like any kind of influence to that degree but also that the movies that are coming out you think that's a result of listening to us i wish we had that kind of sway in the industry just like we had some of the most nonsensical fucking movies in a long time in terms of like density um it's like the opposite of what we want remember when they said like rise of skywalker is what you deserve when you criticize tlj it's like you fuck off for real no one of the rise of skywalker no you guys have to watch lion king 93 and 19 b2b oh back to back we'll probably do that at some point i kind of want to do the whole set with the disney movies but we need to pace them out because that's um it's a trying thing to do the dalmatians one was um man that's going to get a sequel you know duela too yeah that is insane i'm drawing here with a pencil and feel personally attacked i don't remember why you because you had used remember the cgi analogy you used no what did i say about about pencil drawings i'm still blanking what did i say you'd you'd said that well that's like saying pencil drawings are worse than like baroque art or maybe that was fringy yeah i was gonna say that someone would have said it wasn't me who ever compared to baroque that's not true that's a well it was it was someone had used the analogy of pencil drawings in the place of cg the the idea was like well pencil drawings are often bad but that's because pencil drawings are often used as a way to teach people how to draw and it's often what like children and stuff have access to so they're often bad that doesn't mean drawings with pencils are just bad oh because they're pencil drawings oh i don't remember making that point but i agree with it bad cgi is bad so cgi is bad except when cgi is good then it's okay baroque they just put the thags chat afterwards don't worry chat it's not directed at all are you okay all right now what would you guys say about vermouth racks from dragon slayer 1981 go motion dragon looks really good in some shots i i've not seen drag was dragon slayer was that the animated one the uh well so the what is go motion go motion is that like a variant of slow motion sorry stop motion i do not know what go motion is someone will have to google that are you free go motion no it doesn't ring a bell no it could be like a autocorrect thing maybe that's just a way to animate like a technique of animation i assume is what they mean like stop motion go motion computerized i know about sorry animate i know it's not that yeah i'm having a look at him i'm just uh i'll see if i can tell what kind of style this is hmm i can get a good uh selection here i'll i mean you have to keep in mind this is this is nine yeah 1981 that ain't that ain't half bad at all like obviously you can tell but i mean you know hey that doesn't look too bad yeah go motion maybe i can show this on screen a little bit like it's its movement is a bit off and the details a bit off but man 40 years ago you know that's legit pretty impressive that's that's not bad that is quite impressive hmm uh think about this the 1986 movie aliens cost 18 million dollars to make with the mostly practical effects the 2017 movie alien covenant cost over 100 million dollars to make with CGI i'd like to know the the inflation though of 18 million in 86 to what's that well that what that will be worth in 2017 that's something that can easily be figured out you could probably buy google inflation what so let me let you uh so 18 million from 1986 what is that worth today or do you know what i mean by that i go to inflation doesn't make that difference i don't explainer i don't expect it to make that difference but i'd still be curious how much it goes up by if in 1988 right 86 i purchased an item 86 okay 1986 i purchased an item for and i said 18 million yeah then in 2022 let's see wasn't for 2017 if possible says oh 2017 yeah let me do that 2017 40 million 257 thousand well i i think as long as you do that i think the point is still very well made being the aliens is fucking knocking it out of the park for less than half the money um and saying like alien covenant was made with CGI again to me is highlighting the wrong issues alien covenants writing is fucking horrendous either of you guys see that um was that the one no that was prometheus alien covenant is the one after prometheus right yep i feel like i know a lot i don't think i've seen it but i think i've seen enough reviews on it that i have pretty good understanding what's wrong with it i remember at the time prometheus was like a big deal to me and i still remember me and smile to go see in the cinema and then alien covenant i didn't even i remember finding out it's like oh that's been out for like a year now and then i watched it just online and i was like that was fucking awful and that was almost worse i think than prometheus and i was just sad that's okay well we're sad all the time yeah you all should rename this to nas car because you're going in circles with this topic i don't know which one they're referring to but apparently which i don't know one of them where's my nine zero where's my nine eleven propaganda film starring matt damon and ben afleck wait was that a thing i have no clue i honestly don't i remember there were nine eleven movies but i don't remember what no who's in them no it's wrong with nick cage hmm sounds like a disaster dothmole's revival was a big contrivance but at least legends and clone wars did interesting things with more unlike modern-day disney star wars revivals so this is the thing if you were passed to write the story of what does dothmole do after the person before you story which is the story of how he managed to survive and it's all bullshit it's like you passed something that's pretty dumb but you can now make what's probably a pretty fucking compelling story i mean everyone compliments dothmole's uh stuff in clone wars in terms of his like personal struggles and everything and just like yeah once you get past the dumb shit of him surviving that uh you can play with him a bit that's the fun you can do sure i think so um a guy called the gold man is doing videos called over analyzing the obu one show each video is about 10 minutes and is the most shallow form of analyzing i've ever seen thought you guys would get a good laugh from it well if you're analyzing it and it takes 10 minutes it can't be that detail i was about to say doesn't sound like a very much of a deep dive it's only 10 that's like a third of most of the episodes but um yeah you a deep analysis i feel of almost anything is often going to lead to much longer than the actual thing itself that's weird we're apparently in the minority on that one right everyone thinks if you go over it that means you failed your task yeah well those people are wrong why are you talking about kanobi it's morbid time by the way if any of you actually gone and seen more of himself i haven't more himself no i haven't nobody has they've re-released it thin as because i thought people wanted to watch it i like that just like literally nobody has seen that movie like not even one bit ever he makes fun of him but nobody seen it that's why we make fun of it maybe kanobi is part of the tv a and ponder baba's arm was supposed to get destroyed on jedda that's why kanobi had to cut it off on tatooine the fact that you know the guy's name that's dude that was the power of star wars like culture when the ot was out and even the prequels people knew the names of characters that were not named in the movies and it was just normal like um this this but like it's gone to the point now people forget the names of fucking main characters from stars yeah like uh who is the who is the chick from the rise of skywalker the the the the chick with the fro and the bow the bow and the fro what was her name fuck i thought you were talking about zori bliss and i was about to be like i remember her but i legit don't remember the one you're talking about i remember who she was but i don't remember her name lando's not daughter according to chat is jana i'd never would have guessed that jana okay because i believe it or not when you said zori bliss i was like oh i didn't i didn't remember her name i don't know why i remember her name but i do remember well i mean we all remember babu frick's name i'll never forget babu frick's name i wanted to get it until i like till the day i die babu until the day i i'm more than six feet on board i'll never i'm pretty sure that's gonna be the case i don't think i remember it's just the name you remember how do you not fret he spends like 10 seconds in the movie and he's just this incredibly overjoyed tiny engineer who does job to help people out he makes those noises like that's just awesome and it just it works and that's what's so special about it it's what it's it's about family the frick family the fricks babu in the fricks the really great wholesome family show i'm just turning mrs frick in my head canon randy the goblin is the chosen one i think that's fair gonna lead us out of this quagmire rogue one breaks hyperspace travel hyperspace travel is instant in rogue one which breaks all the other films is it instant i can't remember it being in i just can't remember if it's instant then yeah that is an issue but people are comparing shots of vader looking out of a death a star destroyer from the ot to rogue one to the kanobi show and the one they showed for kanobi had i think he was staring at the the hyperspace whim holy thing and the rogue rogue one when i think he was looking at something else but i was just like i was trying to think like do they have shots like that i don't remember this the hyperspace travel in in rogue one was it was it really instant no i do remember in rogue one they stay accurate to sensing objects coming out of hyperspace which is we're actually a clip from that i use for for some reason i needed to look up that clip um about leaving hyperspace but i'm not sure yeah um i know i had to i rewatch part of return of the jedi when i when we there was an episode of season two of the mandalorian when all the ships are like next to each other going through hyperspace and i'm like is that a thing can you be with another ship that's like right next to you going through hyperspace i'm like i i don't know if that's a thing that you can do but they were communicating back and forth while going through hyperspace and i was like do they do this in return of the jedi when lando and the rest of the fleet are doing it and they don't they they don't show any dialogue between the rebel fleet in between you see them taking off and the next time you see them where they leave hyperspace yeah i mean it's kind of it seems to me that um it's the it's like the golden rule of you know hey george how does this thing work and he's like you know what i'm just not going to show you the answer i'm just i'm not going to confirm it does not work the way you think it might because it could cause me problems later down the line at least it feels that there's a dynamic of that sometimes in star wars stuff earlier on excuse it uh you're on quick and that's about it like poetry rhymes also here's a cool fact in battlefront one when you aim your gun your player model of course also aims their gun but they also have a facial animation that will have the soldier close one of their eyes except the except the us snipers who were at the time already trained to aim with both eyes open that's an interesting attention to detail hmm they do that that is a detail in battlefield five whenever you are aiming down sights your character model they will close their off eye as they look down the sights of their uh rifle those little things you wouldn't you might you might never know because you'd have to see someone else doing it because of course you don't notice it in your own character's model but neat little uh neat little piece of detail there there's a lot of little neat neat details in that game if you go into water then your character's model will get wet like visibly wet cloth darkens everything you know things of that nature and then you will dry from the top down so after a while your character will be half wet after you slowly would surely dry off and the when you're in the mud and your character moves around in the mud your character model picks up the mud on the character model and it's it looks pretty accurate based off of where you know based on like the cloth and everything that you're wearing there's a lot of neat details in that game shame they gimped it with a horrific pr and an awful launch trailer um i just saw one come in just now that said i hated the first two episodes of strange things season four should i continue um i thought season four episode four was that that was the one that i thought was actually worth other people having seen i don't know exactly what i'd say about the first three and so if you're not enjoying the first two you probably should stop i guess i don't think you're gonna like the rest if you didn't like the first two but um i was also gonna say we're about to hit eight hours and uh i'm afraid i've got to get up relatively early tomorrow and so i don't think i can go on any longer however we've made it through half of tonight's super chats and so i shall save them hopefully we'll we'll not develop as enormous a backlog as we once had we will figure out a place for us to answer these um in fact our final kanobi recording is happening on wednesday oh boy we'll see how they wrap it all up well and and if you and and freeing myself are available we could do all of the remaining ones of tonight as well as the ones that have come in from the premiers of the kanobi episodes as well as streamlabs we could do them in probably like a two-hour thing um or maybe less i'm not sure if you guys are on board but uh closing early today i think eight is a nice safe solid a long time that's a third of the day right there yeah um so chat let me ask your opinion on this what do you think is the the best way to go about this right this episode of evap should it wait to be put out until monday because kanobi's coming out tomorrow or should i switch them or should both of them go out tomorrow but like i don't know try and face them out i guess what do you what do you think what are you talking about well because i've got usually our saturday effeps go out on sundays right onto the moola but i've also got a kanobi episode to premiere so right it's not like i want to put them out at the exact same time yeah i get you if someone said this on monday a lot of people it's kanobi tomorrow everyone wants kanobi out i understand that especially the people who are here right now because they've fucking listened to this podcast already so like more new than us i think like me the way to go i think so yeah does that make sense then to put so this episode will be put on moola on monday then um some people were saying both but i just i don't know i just clashes them up you know and i figure it makes more sense to do the other way um we have a buyer smaller that's okay i was just looking to see what people thought uh so yeah the the plan is then kanobi tomorrow i'll see you there for the old uh live premiere and then monday will be this Tuesday for me anyway will be real bbc but also if possible uh episode five of the kanobi could be tuesday on that one yeah yeah we got a lot of work to do in a short amount of time yep yeah um yeah because like for anybody who's confused about this compared to boba fat like me and for you both had lots of life things happen at the exact same time as having to do this and so it's been crammed into loads of random not only when we can even record it but also when it's getting edited and so the disjointed way you've seen the release is a result of that um though of course we're hoping to to get the last one out promptly after recording it uh on on wednesday can't wait for the kanobi finale gonna be brilliant i'm sure about it um and yeah so that that's that's all updates other than just general working away on a bigger project for myself uh if you guys want to go ahead say say whatever you want all right you know i think that uh i think i've said enough i think that everything that needs to be said we've said couldn't possibly be anything else that is more or less episode 191 of every frame of pause fair enough in my case um you remember top hats rags i do indeed oh yeah that's great his point and click adventure game born punk is now out it came out yesterday slash today depending on where you are in the world i did a little bit of writing work for it if you're interested in playing a point and click cyberpunk adventure game akin to like the ones that came out in the nineties monkey island and whatnot they sound on steam if you want to check it out there's a link go uh go give it again or if that sounds interesting to you uh otherwise for me like specifically me it's mainly gonna be uh obi one and then other projects what i could get around to those eventually um but yeah that's uh that's that's my two sense of runes and pieces and stuff well then uh thank you all so much for joining us and yeah we are we are getting eerily close to that anniversary stream things i i guess i'd like to say that i usually start warning people about this far away from it if you've got anniversary memes or videos now is the time to start thinking about posteri knowing them because yeah time yeah you might just uh i'd like to try and get them all involved and in before i i don't know run out of the chance to be able to collect them and stuff so you still got like what is that two and a half months two months i think yeah two months until the stream itself the two months flies by all right that's how it always goes and uh you know four-year hype i know right it'll be four whole years of efem can you believe that right can you can you no i can't it's unbelievable i don't believe you are lying to me it's around about four years since patrick williams said why the fuck do you care about plot holes and we were like let me explain i know that wasn't the first episode but it's close enough it's a week after the genesis the origins the beginning yes uh so yeah i'm sure there'll be plenty of fun times ahead but uh thank you so much for giving us a little listen hopefully had fun we shall see you on the next broadcast being tomorrow fun times okay goodbye everybody that's right be there or be square be there or we will stab you in the chest with a lightsaber which is only meant to inconvenience you so it's all right i'm pretty sure most of our viewers have several stomachs but it'll be fine um it takes a lot of stomachs to be able to uh a little stomach a lot of the stuff that we cover thanks for watching thank you so much for the donations thank you for the helpful engagement yeah yeah yeah you provided some some interesting factoids for us tonight as well as helpful bits and bobs in chat thank you so much poodle pip here you go bye bye everyone toodleoo