 So, we're going to talk about my course. We're going to talk about how to bring some audio into your course, and so that we'll talk about what training is necessary, what training is nice, and some of the ways that you can bring to assignment types and some of the resources that you have to bring into your class. And then I'll also ask you, so some of you have experience with this, and I'd love to hear about your insights. So, throughout the talk, if there's anything that strikes you right away, feel free to unmute or put that in the chat, and then I'll definitely leave some space for that. So, think it over as well if you want to share it later. And then I have a few student reflections on just what being part of the course has been like. So first of all, I want to just ask, why podcast, why audio, what are some of the reasons that you're interested in this, and like, what's your experience with bringing it into your classroom? So, if anybody wants to put those into the chat or just unmute, that's fine too. All right, so we have a comment from Will, podcasts have become a way of scholarly dissemination. So yeah, knowledge transfer, getting your, finding a new way of sharing your research. A few of the things that I wanted to highlight, first of all, it's a way of reaching beyond your class and your school. So especially for students, I feel like they write papers that barely anyone reads, like their instructor reads them, maybe a TA, and then there's no other home for them, there's no other audience for them. And so this is a way of creating work that is, that can easily be shared and that can find another audience. It's a great way of creating an open education resource. So if you're trying to create something that can be shared freely and used in other contexts, then it works for that. As Will mentioned, it's a way for scholarly dissemination. So repurposing your research, you've got research that isn't necessarily meant for a general audience, but you can take that, synthesize it, and turn it into something that can be shared for a whole new audience. So we've got a comment from Sam. For a project we are creating in CTLT Indigenous Initiatives, we have started a podcast to accompany our in-relation project. So we are looking for ways to further podcasting into the teaching and facilitation modules. Excellent. So it's another medium to work on engaging people. It's also for students, I think it's satisfying and can be fun to make stuff. I don't know if all of my students are feeling that quite right now, is they're like in the grind at the end of the term. But it can be like to have that kind of tangible product that you have at the end of an assignment is quite satisfying for some. And it's also a creative outlet. So in the sciences, I think students sometimes feel like they have to tamp down their creative drive, their creative expression. They aren't able to pursue that in a lot of their coursework. And so this is a chance for that other side of their lives to come and to play. We can talk a bit about the copyright aspect and the assignment type later on. And then we'll talk about student response to these kind of assignments and how, yeah, it does seem like it catches them in a different way than other assignment types. And I didn't ever consider that not having to read a big stack of papers and being able to listen to them while you move around is like another advantage of audio assignments from an instructor perspective. So we have another comment. Students report sharing audio projects on social media or with families, which has never happened with an essay assignment in my experience. And that's true. I have a photo of a student later who, well, I'll save that anecdote for later. But it comes up later on in the presentation. So thanks for that, Tammy. All right, so getting into LFS 400 itself. This is a picture from a few years ago of the listening party that we have at the end of the year. And so we book the boardroom in our building in McMillan in Land and Food Systems. And we get food and other things. And we all listen to it as a group. So it's a nice experience. And that in the corner is Will Valley. So Andrew Reisman co-developed the course with Catherine Getsinger, who's a prof at the School of Journalism. And after a few years, Andrew moved on and Will took over. And now I'm on to my third co-instructor, who's Julie Carill. And all three of them are subject matter experts within faculty of Land and Food Systems. And I'm the techie storytelling audio person. So that's kind of the balance that we found from the course. So yeah, it's been around for quite a while since 2006. It started out as a project with the School of Journalism. And it was so a partnership with them for a couple years. And then that sort of fizzled out. But Catherine Getsinger was on the course for a few years and helped develop the materials. And then in about 2010, she stepped away. And so since then, it's been me and an LFS prof. And so the idea was to bring storytelling skills to LFS students. So Land and Food Systems, agricultural sciences, but also food, nutrition, and health students, aren't always or haven't been the best at getting the message out about their work. And definitely, as we've seen the world change in the last couple of decades, the food system and other things have become really important topics. And so what we see is that we want students to be able to advocate for these causes and to get the word out about them. And LFS 400 is one of the ways that we do that in the faculty. I mean, at the time, 2006, 2007, podcasting at universities was really just recording lectures. That was the mode. And so what this was doing is taking these tools, which were now suddenly very accessible, and giving it to students rather than just repeating old structures of recording lectures and putting them up. I have another comment here. So thank you, Kritika. This is, as a student, I enjoy getting podcasts as required readings for courses. They break up the flow of only reading dense articles. Also, maybe it's the limited podcast that I have listened to, but they also tend not to have that much jargon, which helps, haha. Great point. So they can be an accessible or populist way or popular way of looking at some topic. So they can provide a nice counterbalance to heavier academic articles. There are definitely jargony podcasts out there. I've helped out with some of them and advised against it. But you have to pick your audience. And so sometimes the audience is OK with jargon. But yeah, I think for the most part, it's a very accessible medium. And that's one of its real benefits for students. So when we get into the course, we have a number of activities that we do within the class. So we have the standard lectures. So I give lectures and we'll talk a bit about some of those on the next slide. But we also have listening sessions. So we try to listen to each student's work as they submit assignments throughout the term. So we listen to their work. Each student pitches their ideas. And so before each assignment, there's time for them to pitch their idea, talk it through with their fellow students and with the instructors. And then that yields workshopping and feedback as we work through those ideas. And deeper into the term, when the assignments get bigger, we do more and more of that to help students really refine their work. We do technical help in class. So I'll talk about that a bit when I talk about challenges. But getting students to try a whole new mode of working and tools with which to do that, it can be very challenging. So some are more adept at others. And so we wanna make sure there's technical help to bring everyone along. We have a midterm potluck. So to fit the kind of slightly more informal nature of the course, we have a potluck. And there's lots of students that aren't from LFS that end up in the course. And so we want them to be welcomed into the LFS style of socializing. We have a couple of field trips that we run throughout the term. So we just did our sound walk the other day, which is kind of active listening. We take a walk around campus and there's a series of prompts as you walk through campus. And then we also do a tour of CITR Radio. We also buy memberships for students as a part of course fees. So we get some funding to provide the course and those go to guest lecture, gifts and a bit of for catering. But then we also cover the cost of students to become members at CITR Radio. And then after the midterm break, we really shift from a seminar to directed study. Like it's really focused on getting that 12 minute documentary, audio documentary done. And we don't really have as many formal lectures anymore. We have some guest lectures to kind of just help people along. And so typically we have guest lectures every term on media relations. So we bring in people that are media specialists to kind of get a sense of what the other side is when you're working as a citizen journalist or as a storyteller. We bring in someone who's a science journalism specialist. And then we also bring in radio and podcast practitioners. So that's a picture of Chris Oki from the CBC who has worked on podcasts there. And we've had podcasters from this American life and also from Crackdown, which is an amazing local podcast. So we've been very lucky in that regard to be able to have some of those great voices come into our class. So the workshops that we give, we start with audio editing. That's something that we want to instill right at the top so that they get comfortable with using Audacity, which is the program that we recommend. Then we start getting them to think about story structure. And again, a lot of these, it's a very different mode of thinking about sharing scholarly work, to use narrative structure, to really simplify their writing for the script that they're gonna perform. We talk about copyright and creative commons. And so Antje mentioned this as being an issue with the assignments that she has and what to do with them. For this course, we really try to encourage people to make their work available under Creative Commons, which then allows us to share it on a website that we have. And conversely, then we try to make sure they're only using copyrighted Creative Commons licensed materials. There is some back and forth around fair dealing for news clips and some other clips that they use. But for the most part, the music and sound effects they're using are all cleared so that we're able to share them freely and not worry about takedown notices or worse. We also try to get them to really think about sound. I think when people first get into podcasting, they're really focused on like the script or maybe an interview. And then music comes after that. And then building that world of sound is kind of the last thing that happens for most people. And so we try to get them just inspired to think about how they can create a sense of place with their pieces. And so up top is a sound walk that we took to the UBC farm last year and we had some specialized gear that we have to get them to hear the bees that are down there. Those are beehives that they're pointing their microphones at. And then scripting is really important. So it is a very different mode of writing. Students are accustomed to, I think, bulking and padding their essays as much as possible to kind of flex or to kind of make them sound as smart as they can. And when it comes to scripting, you really have to simplify and it kind of goes against, I think, the mode that students are used to. We also cover journalism ethics, information literacy, which has become a much more complicated topic over the last few years and then making media accessible. And that's a new workshop that we're giving this year after Julie and I, my co-instructor, received a Universal Design for Learning Fellowship last year. So we made a few adjustments to the course to try to make it more accessible and to just kind of follow some of those UDL principles. And if you're interested more in that, I'd encourage you to look up the UBC UDL hub. There's lots of information about that program. All right, so again, we have the whole term to work with. So the assignments that we're doing are based on that idea that we're kind of scaffolding learning or building up skill sets throughout the term. And this won't be a luxury that you have if your assignment is just part of a suite of assignments that your students are gonna be taking care of. But we try to think of like, what are the kind of projects that gets students using the technology effectively, both during the course and then afterwards, what are some skills that we can impart them with that they can take out of the course? So the first thing that we get them to do is called a Streeter or a Vox Pop. This has become a mode that's very popular on TikTok. I think people, students now understand this as something to do, which wasn't the case a few years ago, but just like walking up to people on the street and asking them about a certain topic. So, a long time ago, that was a very common tactic in news reporting. And then the onion has spoofed that style if you know that satirical newspaper. And then now you see a lot of these like person on the street interviews. So we do this for two reasons. One is it's like pretty low stakes. So if your recorder breaks or like or doesn't work properly and you need to get, you need to rerecord, you can always go out and find more strangers. You can go back out and you haven't blown that really important interview you have with that prof that's super busy that took forever to schedule. And also it kind of is like an icebreaker. Like I think for a lot of us, like the idea of just going up to someone in the street and asking them for the like to talk to them is a bit nerve wracking. And so this is like just making them like take that leap into this world of audio storytelling and to get into that. Next up is a voicer, which is a two minute story that focuses on one or maybe two people. And this is like a news report that you'd hear on the radio. So now they're starting to think about using narration, about using interview clips, about using music and sound. Then we have a soundscape project. So those are due on Wednesday in my class. And oh, we have an outline first, sorry. The outline is basically just getting students to think about how they're going to tell their story ahead of time. So we get them to work on that over the reading break and then it's due kind of right after reading break. So halfway through the term they need to kind of have a plan for how they're going to achieve their final podcast, which is a 10 to 12 minute story. And so they're sharing their research links. They're sharing the people that they're hoping to talk to or they're kind of outlining who would be the ideal people to talk to. And having a rough kind of layout of the storyboard or the narrative structure that they're hoping for. Then we go to soundscapes, which is a way of getting them to think about how to record sound. Just because you record something doesn't mean the listener is going to be able to hear that for what it is. So it's important to have like a really discerning ear when like is that going to sound like a frying pan to someone who isn't there in the kitchen with you? It's not always the case. So you need to be really purposeful when you're recording sound and putting those into your pieces. Two weeks before the last class, we have a draft presentation. So students are sharing like the working copy of their podcast and they lay out their narrative and then they have time to make some adjustments if they need to. And then on the last day of classes we have a listening party and we listen to the final podcast. And that's always a celebration. New to this term, we have a transcript assignment that accompanies the final podcast. We used to have that as a bonus, like a 1% bonus if you included a transcript but we realized that it's really important to have that there for accessibility and also it's great for people hoping to search the podcast. It's just a really great resource to accompany the audio. So we have that as a mandatory assignment now. And then we have a reflection assignment that's two weeks after the last class. And so we have a series of prompts. And for that reflection, we allow them to go outside of audio. It has to be some sort of digital media but it doesn't have to be audio. It can be video, it can be a comic and could be all sorts of other things. I still remember my first sound statement when the assignment says Donna, completely changed the way I think about sound. Oh, that's a lovely remembrance. Nice. I'm just looking at the time. I think I'm gonna skip this but there's a series of clips on the website itself where you can listen to some of the student works. But this was a streeter that was done by the student and Afton Halloran about thank you Farmer Day. But I'm gonna skip it just so we can leave time for discussion. So these are some of the topics that our students come up with for their work. And so this is just a sound cloud or sorry, a tag cloud of the way that their stories have been tagged. So you can see things like agriculture, animal welfare, food heritage and food security really jump out. A lot of students wanna tell student stories. And so they interview their fellow students or they find someone on campus that can speak to them. Urban farming is a big topic. And then when you look at the smaller tags you can see some of the nuance that comes into these stories. All right, so how do we grade these things? So this is the general rubric that we use for all of our audio pieces. And this has been refined over the years but this is the one that we, this is the most recent one. I don't know how well, can you see it okay? Yeah, I can share this with everyone afterwards as well if you're interested, because I know in the past a few people have asked for it. But we break it down into four different sections. So we have host or student audio narration. We have the structure, we have audio engineering and then we have engagement content. And then we break it down in various degrees from there. So yeah, I mean, there's definitely different ways of doing it, but we found that this is the nice, or like the best balance between the different elements that we're hoping students will focus on. I'll include these later, or I can again share these later, but this is for the outline, we focus on subject matter. That's the most heavily weighted section. So, especially with the outline, we wanna make sure that that's like rock solid is that the subject matter is there, that they've got the research and they've really got a good foundation for the story that they're gonna tell. Then the story plan is there. So we want, even early on, before they've spoken to anyone, we want them to start thinking about what the narrative could be, because that can be very tricky for people after they've interviewed a bunch of people. If they don't have that kind of focus worked out, they just end up with a bunch of somewhat related interviews and then trying to craft a storyline out of that afterwards is a real chore. And then the contacts or the interviewees or the subject or the characters of their story. So we wanna make sure that the people that they've sought to interview are appropriate and also that they're going to be achievable. So sometimes people are pretty ambitious with who they wanna talk to, which I think is great, but it's always important to have a plan B when that person isn't available. And then this is brand new. So this is developed by the teaching assistant this term. We have a TA for the first year. And so Melissa Platsko is a grad student and she developed this transcript rubric. So this is how we're gonna be grading that new assignment that we have. And so we went for grammar and spelling, clear and accurate formatting, a complete record, and then timestamps. And yeah, we looked at examples from radio shows like This American Life and there's a couple of other big American public radio podcasts that have great transcripts. And so we've worked it out from there some suggestions for students. Also, I mean, it's a kind of a nebulous territory, but there's a lot of web services now that will do transcription that makes it like a much different ask of students. So if they're comfortable uploading their audio to American servers and having robots transcribe it, then it can be done very easily compared to the old fashioned way, which I had to do way back when and it was just torture for me to transcribe manually. But yeah, we haven't as a course like paid for one of those services yet to cover for students. And for the most part, there's some free plans where you get a certain amount of space per month. So we're kind of relying on that for now, but it's something to revisit in the future, especially as we're asking students to provide these transcripts. So some of the challenges of a course like this, definitely getting students to adopt a new way of working can be very challenging. And so there's many different parts to that. So one is just media creation. So thinking for a lot of students, I think it's a bit overwhelming to start to use an audio editor to think about audio. And so getting them, like just making sure that they are feeling supported with that is really big. Also, some students really struggle to kind of break through and like do the cold call, reach out to people when they need to. They're just kind of reluctant to do that. And so again, like practicing interviews, doing things to support them in being a bit more extroverted or going out there, out of their comfort zone a bit is really important. And then also, this isn't a course where you can like pull an all nighter and write a paper and just submit it at the end for better or for worse. I mean, I have definitely done that in my life. So I'm very sympathetic to how those things can happen, but you can't like conjure up interviews with people and edit them together and make a 10 minute audio documentary at the last minute. And so there, yeah. Sometimes there are some challenges around that. And that's part of why we've structured it with these like smaller assignments first to build up skills. And then we have that draft two weeks out to try and make sure like, when you hear everyone else in the class is kind of at this level and you're not quite there yet, then hopefully it's a wake up call and can help people get that work done over those last two weeks. We also have like I bring out a big board at this time of year and just with a checklist of everything that needs to be done for your final podcast. And I put up like to do, doing and done. And it's anonymous, but I get everyone in the class to mark where they're at on each of those tasks. And it's just to give students a sense of where they're at relative to their peers. And hopefully it can be a bit of a wake up call if people feel like they're falling behind. Administrative support can be a real challenge. Thankfully we've gotten amazing support for this course. There were some pretty lean years in the like the pre-serial podcast days. Podcasting wasn't as cool as it is now. And so there were times where the course had only like six students in it. So thankfully the powers that be at Land and Food Systems stuck with it. And my old boss, Cyprian Lomas was a big part of that. And now the course is full, it fills up every year and is in a very healthy shape. But getting something this experimental and this kind of out of the norm started would be a challenge. And then there's also just the cost of gear and other things that we have to support students. So on the one hand, a lot of this can all be done with phones now and people are able to edit on their laptops. But we have tried to build up some other gear that we can do to support. So we all, we have audio recorders, we have these field kits for sound recording. And then we also have a pop-up podcast studio that we set up for the term in one of our spaces. This picture is very early in the course when we didn't have any of that kind of equipment at UBC. And so the co-instructor, Catherine Gretzinger, would book out a studio at the CBC. And so we were able to go to the CBC to do recording which was very nice. And that student, I am blanking on her name right now but she was a soil studies student which is like one of the more misunderstood fields of study at UBC potentially. And she said that her parents had never really understood why she was studying dirt is the way that they put it. And she was able to tell this beautiful story about soil and soil studies. And she said it was the first time that her parents really understood why she was studying it. And it's like, oh my gosh. It was very rewarding to hear that, this kind of storytelling had really helped break through and had been something really wonderful to share with her family. Okay, so that's all been very nice. This is a whole term. You get to luxuriate in the world of audio. What happens when you don't have a whole term, you're just trying to have this as be one assignment amongst many and you have many other competing interests within your course. Okay, so these are a few things that I would recommend if you are trying to bring in an audio assignment. So there are some must-have workshops. I don't think you can really do this without these workshops. So you need to have something around audio recording. So this could be 20 minutes to half an hour, but you just need to help students figure out how to record on their phone, figure out technique. If they're gonna interview someone else, they really need some help in like, can't just put the phone in the middle of the table. Don't go to a coffee shop to record. Here's how you record over Zoom. All these things are gonna make it much easier for you as someone who has to listen to these and grade them and also just make sure that it's something that students are a bit more proud of. And so like I say, I mean, most students have smartphones. They have gear that can do a really good job of recording. Can't monitor a smartphone really as far as I know, which means you can't listen along. So there are some hiccups with that, but for the most part, you just need to let give students some support in how to record their pieces. Then audio editing and file management. So it's a whole trick to get recording off of a phone onto a laptop and then figure out how to make adjustments to that and ideally bring in maybe some music or sound effects. So getting some support in that. I recommend Audacity. It's a pretty straightforward program. It's cross-platform. So you can use it on a Mac or a PC. And it's also something that students can use after they leave the university. So they haven't like learned on this really fancy editing program. And then they're gonna have to pay a monthly subscription to use it afterwards, which they may not do. It's a tool that they can continue using. I've also heard great things about a program called Reaper that apparently has like an unlimited free trial. You can just like re-up your free trial. I haven't used it so I can't say but I know other people that have that whose opinion I respect. And then beyond there, there's lots of other ways of editing but those are the two that I think for undergraduates on a budget, that's a good approach. And then in terms of file management just like how to make sure that you're sharing an MP3 if you have to convert anything and then yeah, it's just good to know a little bit about compression with MP3s, these kinds of things. And if you have any questions about these things I can help you out. And I have some slides that I can share. I've given this workshop to a number of different courses not just my own course. So I can help out with that. And then a bit about copyright and creative comments if you're hoping to share these more widely. So Antia mentioned that for her course the students are grabbing movie clips and using them in the podcast. And that's probably okay. There's kind of like a limbo around like using copyrighted material for review purposes. And so I think if you did wanna like check out well Ask Donna or someone else from the library you could get like some advice on that. But students often wanna use music that is copyrighted, other sounds that are copyrighted and it's just good to give them a sense of what they're allowed to do if they're going to put that publicly. And also you wanna make sure that they're informed if they're going to put a creative comments license on their work. You wanna make sure that they're really clear with what's gonna happen if you put the work online. One thing that I've noticed is I now make sure to even though I get permission to share the work I ask them how they want to be like what name they or like how they wanna be identified when they're sharing it. Cause a few times students have gone on to other things and still like the number one hit on Google because of the institutional power of UBC and because it's been up there for a while is the student podcast that they did. And some people are very proud of that and that's great. And other people are like, I don't need anyone to know about this when I'm applying for a job. And so some students now just use their first name or they use their initials and that's totally fine. There's like A-okay. And so I would always check on that kind of thing before you post things online. All right, so some nice to have workshops, scripting, writing for the ear like I mentioned before students are like, if you're in essay mode it's really hard to break out of that. And you have run on sentences and you have jargon or other like really like long words that sound impressive on the page but don't sound impressive when you're trying to listen to them or when students are trying to perform it. So talking to them about writing for the ear, simplifying their language, realizing that it's a different mode and you don't have to put all those really big words in there and you need to break up your sentences so that you'll be able to read it and people will be able to hear it. Performing as well for the sake of your listening pleasure giving students some tips on how to project their voice. Some things that they can do to sound their best is really helpful. Many of you probably have experience with interviewing but students can be very new to that and it can be a pretty overwhelming thing to go out into the world and talk to people. So giving them some interview tips and yeah, especially if you're interviewing someone for a discovery and you're hoping to get like great tape sounding, trying to sound smart in the interview and press someone can really derail your interview because you end up with just like this conversation between two experts in a field where what you really want is one person who's asking kind of open-ended simple questions and then someone that's explaining for a general audience. Typically that's kind of what you want from an interview. There may be other, there are other kinds of interviews but typically that's kind of what you want and so some tips for students when they're getting into that. Storytelling again, giving them some idea of like the narrative flourish that they can bring to these stories that will help engage listeners and then like I mentioned before, sound. It's often the last thing that people think about but when you hear really nice sound design or like a really well-placed sound effect or some ambient sound, it can really lend a sense of place and it can be a great way to transport the listener. So when used well, it can be very effective. So now some of the formats that I've seen people use in the various courses that I've helped out with and in my own course. So I think, and these are, I've listed these from relatively easiest to hardest. So audio essays are kind of the standard thing when people are thinking about getting students to do some kind of audio, they get them to read out an essay and maybe they have some clips for review or they have something that they drop in but it's just a read aloud and recorded version of an essay. Next you might move up to a conversation between classmates and so I think this format is probably familiar to a lot of undergrads who listen to podcasts because this has become the dominant mode of podcast is like two people just shooting the breeze and so this can be kind of an appealing way for them to have an audio assignment in that this is like a form that is familiar to them. You have to remind them it needs to maintain its rigor even if they're being a bit more irreverent than they would normally be in their assignments. There's also the Streeter or VoxPop, VoxPopuli person, voice of the street or voice of the people. So that can be, that was something that a prof heard about my course and they brought that into their class. And so it was to get students to think about other people's perception of popular topics. And so they did that. Then you have soundscapes or interviews with experts. And then really you're getting into a much trickier territory when you get to audio documentary. So telling those stories with sound, with narration, with multiple interviews, it just becomes like a much heavier load for students to edit those together. It's like by far the most, I think, rewarding when it's done and they have something that they'd be proud of. But if you're dropping that into the middle of another course it could be pretty tricky. And then it's something that I haven't worked on although I've done a little bit of it in my work at CITR but some audio fiction or radio dramas. And so I, yeah, I mean those can run the gamut. I'm sure they could take up a lot of work or they could be kind of a little more cast off. But yeah, those are some of the ways that I thought that some of the formats that people have used in their courses. Anything that I missed any other formats or styles that people could think of that might come up into courses. All right, so in terms of on-campus resources, so as Donna mentioned, the library is an excellent resource so you can reach out to either Erin here at UBC Vancouver or Donna up at UBC O and that's the digital scholarship and open education workshops. And I know that you're doing one on audacity editing in July, is that correct Donna? And that's open to both campuses. Yeah, it's virtual and it'll be open to everyone. Wonderful, great. There's also the DIY media series. So I'm part of something called the digital media community of practice and we have a series called the DIY media series. And so I run a workshop on podcasting and that's like everything you need to know about podcasting in three hours workshop. If you think listening to me for an hour is long, wait till you listen to me for three hours. But then there's also sessions on the Adobe Creative Cloud, on video production, a number of different things. So you can look for that or reach out to me if you want some more information on that. The Chapman Learning Commons is a great resource for digital media work up top there in the corner of this slide. You see the DIY studio space that they have there. And it's really nice. They have two really nice microphones and it's in this great soundproof room. So that is something that they are keen to work with. Students or classes, I know Alex is on leave at the moment but yeah, the team there is really open to partnering with classes and having blocks of bookings. And they also have audio gear that you can borrow to take out. Likewise, UBC Studios has a place. So UBC Studios is a place on campus that does video production centrally and they have a couple of podcast stations there. Then your home faculty might have some gear. It's always, there's no centralized list of all that stuff, but each faculty kind of has their own cash or their own experts. And so it's worth asking around a bit to see if anyone within your faculty might have something. And then lastly, CITR Radio. So that's the campus radio station at UBC Vancouver. That's a picture of me and Studio B for a photo shoot I did there. And yeah, we partner, my class partners with them to do some training and also to have studio space and they've partnered with other courses in the past and they're always keen and up for a collaboration. So worth checking in on that as well. And then in terms of off-campus resources, the Vancouver Public Library Central Branch has just reopened their inspiration lab. So this is a media creation space on the sixth floor, including some sound studios. And I know local podcasts that record there. There's lots of books about podcasting that if you need a list, I can recommend a few. But NPR recently published a podcasting guide that's a really great accessible beginners guide to podcasting and there's lots of other of those resources. And then NPR also publishes a training website that is really excellent. So the one that I've highlighted here is the Ear Training Guide for Audio Producers which looks at typical audio issues that people have, how to assess them and then how to remediate them. And then Transom is another place that has a lot of great resources and that's an audio institute in Woods Hole, Massachusetts and they have a lot of resources that I draw upon as well. And then in terms of sound, free sound in the Free Music Archive are two websites, web services that are really well integrated with Creative Commons material. And so I often point students there when they're in search of sound or music. All right, a little bit about student experience. So this was a part of the reflection piece that students had. So this one student really wanted to learn about illustration. And so she recreated the audio recorder that we had in Illustrator despite the fact that she didn't know how to use Illustrator before and it took a really long time for a 10% assignment. But it was a very cool thing that she did and it was a kind of a nice thing. So this is Olivia writes, my creative process is always kind of a mess. I'm all over the place. But since we had flexibility to do things in our own style, I really felt at ease despite crippling deadline stress and the creative freedom really opened the idea floodgates for all sorts of new projects. And so that was really a nice and kind of an incredible story. She did her degree in food and nutrition and health and after this course kind of got inspired and became a medical illustrator in the faculty of medicine and then went on to do that a master's in medical illustration. So she hadn't had any experience with illustration beforehand and got really inspired. So that was really fun. So I'm just mindful of the time. So I just want to, yeah, I want to leave some time for discussion. So I'll just say we have, I went through some of our student experience of instruction or the course of Alice to kind of highlight some of the things, but I'll just cut those out because it's kind of braggy and we have to get like moving. But I'll just, I'll highlight these two. So this is the first course I had taken at UVC that made me feel more connected to the real world. Coming from a science background, this course actually felt more technical than my lab courses and allowed me to pursue my interests in audio and movie editing. And I felt like the amount of time given in class to talking through projects and ideas really set me up for success. All the assignments felt genuinely designed to support learning rather than being hoops to jump through as is so often the case. And the earlier assignments and processes I had to go through gave me great practice for the final assignment that the class is discussion based and requires considerable amount of engagement and sharing product outputs from early on really helped build up my confidence and get over the anxiety I had sharing my thoughts and work and looking silly. I think I'll feel the impact of this well beyond audio storytelling projects. Okay, so that was really like a very heartening to hear. And yeah, it has an all been a positive but those were some of the ones that I wanted to highlight. And they're actually all posted all of my course of hours are posted on the course website. So if you do wanna go through this you're welcome to do that. So yeah, I went on a bit long, surprise, surprise but I wanted to just call on anyone here that wanted to share some of the things that kind of went through your mind when you brought audio into your course. So I know Antia did that. Tammy has done that as well. And Andrew as well was the co-founder of the course. So if you have any anything you wanna share about that process I'd welcome you, the floor is yours. Yeah, I will. Yeah, thanks. So this is fantastic. I was just gonna ask a question to you or maybe other people have engaged in these. So early on in your slides, you mentioned you talk about sort of information literacy as part of the scaffolding for the projects. And it seems like the idea of students going out and creating a media object and sharing that object really must make them engage in the idea of information literacy. And I just was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about like what sort of scaffolding you do in that area and like, if you see any outcomes or student impacts specifically around information literacy. Well, I think so the information literacy workshop is delivered by Julie Creo, my co-instructor. And it's really just about like, how do we know what we know? And applying the academic rigor that we have to papers and as scientists, I'm not a scientist but they do as scientists to the world more broadly and to media. And so I don't think students, I mean, it's been very interesting to see the media diet of students also change. Whereas, when we started the course, it felt like people were listening to the radio and occasionally reading magazines. And I felt like I was kind of in the same boat as them. And then slowly I realized like, some of my references to like the CVC and other things were like, not landing at all because like students are getting most of their news from social media. And so that like, if that I think is the hope is that they see as these things are put together and you know, like the manipulation that can happen with that, just it makes them more critical of the media that they and the science communication also that they see in the world more broadly. Thanks, yeah. Yeah. So I'll just read out or do you wanna share this? Well, I was just gonna say, Kaltura, you mentioned in terms of transcription. So Kaltura, at least instructors can upload audio there and it'll auto transcribe. It's only in English. So like Francophone or like I work in Spanish, it's annoying, but that's a good situation. But yeah, I just to say that I really appreciated that you came to my class and you gave a workshop and the incorporating podcast for me, it was, well, for my students, it was amazing. For me, it was very good. I think I'm too much of a perfectionist. It was a learning curve. And the marking took a lot longer for me just cause I wasn't used to it, but I definitely wanna do it again post tenure and yeah, be better about it. Yeah, but it was a great experience. Fair enough. Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah, transcription through Kaltura is a great suggestion. And yeah, thanks everyone. Thank you so much, Duncan. This was fantastic. I feel like I learned a lot. I feel also like you just nailed a lot of the reasons people are engaging in open pedagogy projects of getting students out of the comfort zone, of knowing the students. When you're taking on new work like this, you kind of rise to the occasion and just having people share their work is fantastic. This was great.