 Hello everybody if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer, and that must mean it's time for an early show of Warhammer weekly Joining me as always is my co-host Tom. What's up, buddy? How you doing? Hello friends Tom fresh off the heels. I'm just gonna steal it now Fresh off the heels of a major victory the winner the champion of all wars way to go brother. You got best all Around that's what it's called. Yes. It was and indeed it was the only 5-0. Oh, there you go Well, that's so with with old night haunt and that so that'll set us up. Well to discuss new night haunt tonight Also joining us back again on the show. It's Nico. What's up, brother? How you doing? I'm good. It's an honor to be back for the third time. I'm really happy to be here We're so happy to have you back. I I immediately thought about you Because when I we're gonna be talking the night haunt battle tomes tonight, we're gonna get into the night haunt Review we're gonna talk about the ins the outs the ups the downs the goods the bads the strategies the thoughts so on But as soon as I read this book I was like we got to get Nico because like I'll just give a quick spoiler for what's gonna come up in the battle Tom review. This is a very Johnny book Like if you're a Johnny player our psychographic profiles of Timmy Johnny and spike This is a super Johnny book in what it allows. So and Nico, I know you are you are maybe the Johnny of all Johnny's So there you go. I do try though. Of course the real reason is all the other guests were a west world, so Not true at all. All right at any rate Let's uh, well, I mean, let's be honest how many of them have night haunt and aos worlds right now So actually the night haunt specialists aren't at aos worlds It's a good point. He speaks the truth. Yeah. All right. Let's uh, I don't know why anybody would hear double of anything. That's weird Okay, well somebody tell me if there's still any audio issue. I'll look at that But it's no there should not be for any reason any audio duplication, but at any rate Tom take us through the news Okay, cool. Yeah, I'm excited with this computer whoo scared me for a minute. All right I was gonna say everything on my mixer looked correct. What do we go? Well, how about that rumor engine? Oh What about that rumor engine that is a 40k thing? Okay, sure. I mean it could be squat-ish, right? Like it could be it could It could be a 40k space dwarves KO conversion bit sure like Look Niko I want to get your take on this in a second, but I am happy for Corridor and overlords wave 2 that they're releasing under the banner of squats like as much as that is a joke It's not a joke If you want different arco those like little dudes that they released the little base dudes or the necromunda dudes or the One we saw one of those are gonna be fine They're gonna have all sorts of wild vehicles that are gonna be like like the the the trike the floating Grav trike that they spoiled. I mean, that's an instant gun hauler Yeah, right So, yep, I Mean I still have some faith that this is you know, obviously the Prop bag pirate on a squevelyn Flying through the air. I I think it's inevitable. I can't wait. You know what I want Niko I want there to be a year like just some year that happens I don't know what year this is Where we've caught up with everything all the books are out. We're not in a new edition year okay, so like they've they've turned the book production up and It So we've caught all the way up all new books are out We don't have a new edition coming that year and their only choice is to release all the wackadoo armies That they've hinted at like we get grot bag scudlers. We get vampirates. We just get Crazy thing in one year because they're out of other options. They're like, we gotta give them something All the concept models that they didn't quite think would reach a whole army as they suddenly get unleashed So, that's her and all that sort of thing Yeah, you'd get like the clan scryer flying Skaven in KO stuff, you know, just like every air and sea force that's been teased would just all come out in a single year it'd be great like to do again like Grot bag scudlers as you mentioned, right? Yeah for your gifts and then doing the skaven Like air force rat rat force one. Well, vampirates will be taken to the seas obviously Vampirates, but they can fly too because of boats. Sure. Oh, they're flying ghost boats. Yeah You've got like coming today Yeah, like and then we've hit like all of the sub factions, right I there's there's more. There's a lot more of that kind of wacky stuff The flying megaliths that the order cities are sending off there. Yeah, and so you have a new city And so you have all the great alliance that's represented Uh, yes, I would also like and then we'd introduce the silent people as well Don't forget about the silent people. Oh, yeah, I remember them. Mm-hmm There you go. They're quiet. They're easy to forget Uh, oh, we haven't forgotten about detective skink, but that's an underworlds warband detective skink and the and the skink squad Yeah, absolutely. Okay, at any rate. Yes. So it's a 40k thing Speaking of new releases though We have the echoes of doom box coming that those new That new Skaven model Uh-huh can be yours on pre-order this week Sure. I mean the look We live in the worst of all possible worlds as I've previously discussed uh-huh, so um You know, it's not surprising That we have one new Skaven model and just in this box Two new Sylvaneth sculpts and with with more we already know on the way So sure one of the newest freshest most aesthetically adored ranges Uh, that has a ton of new kits Let's give them more kits one of the oldest outdated but but deeply beloved factions that's badly in need of kits Yeah, we get we gotta do death master When we already got a new death master five minutes ago in nether mace by the way So we get two new death masters and we got another one technically before that in uh Silver tower Yes, that's a good model. Yeah. He's also good twins. Yeah the twins, but it doesn't matter like regardless He's a death master. Like if you look at him, that's what he is. No, I understand. You're right They've been doing lots of hero ninja rats It's all right. Our day will come our day will come. Thank you So does this mean that I have to do Skaven for this fall? Not not based on this Might mean you've got to do something to pair with sylvanath. I don't know Guess we'll see are you doing so that I don't know man. I mean, you know, we'll see what happens I'm just saying I like them bug rider dudes. They're pretty cool That could be fun Lots of alloy options there. Absolutely trees. I like trees Uh, but we'll see Yeah, uh, what else? Um, oh and then uh, we have uh, we've obviously vault words you mentioned it Vault words was last weekend. Um, it was the inaugural event. It was put on by metagames Uh unlimited out in uh, springfield, missouri um tyler Emerson tyler mangle one of those tyler guys Never heard Never heard of him. Uh, he I oh scrubby and wells. There we go. He has he had a wonderful podcast at one point in time. Yeah Obviously tyler to co-host of the show put on um T. Ode with travis and a number of other folks that were there Um out there and they put on a wonderful event. It was it was originally for we sold out at 40 I think we had one drop before it started so we had 39 and um, it was just a delightful event the venue was great the um It was like right next to a firehouse subs like right next to it and walking like uh It was right next to like a coffee place as well like a coffee and smoothie And so it had like all the things immediately walkable Uh as a venue in addition to being a nice venue. Um It uh, and it had like pinball machines lining the game hall area that we were in. It's pretty sweet so uh And uncut sheets of magic cards an entire revised set was on the wall next to me Uh uncut. Yeah, it was pretty sweet. Um, but it was good. It was good. It was a uh Uh, I had a wonderful five games. Um played uh Open with sons of batham at Uh, then did nergal mortals then did eidenf and did nergal a beast heavy and then did did lrl so It was a two-list format. Um, I appreciated it was but it was different than david's two-list format at nashcon and that it was Ordish format. Yeah, it was it was 1600 points fixed and then you could swap out your second list could have 400 Points different. So it was a very limited kind of two-list format. Um, yeah, it was great. It was great event It's definitely one that uh, it would be worth going back to Um, I look forward to seeing uh, seeing what kind of what they do next So I hope to make it out next year when I won't when I don't have a random conflict the week before where I'm in a different country So the details. Yeah, I did. Uh, no, it's great Uh, we do have to also say the other important critical piece of news They came out of it is of course brendon who took home the Uh underdog trophy and beat his rival two plus tough who in a very close game They went to the wire. Unfortunately the pigs were not able to uh, we're not able to take out the trees Now it's true That he did take the underdog award But as I have I was want to remind him repeatedly I also qualified for both the underdog and hard mode with my army. So technically that's my trophy He's just keeping it warm. I'll remember that for your best painted sword Um Okay Very good. All right. Well enough of this Let's get to some pick of the week. Nico. What do you want to share with everybody? Oh, I had I had a couple please so you did first of all I had Hayway twitch did a Sort of hot take review based off the leaks of uh, of night haunt Really enjoyable really thoughtful commentary And then for the second one uh going from four hours to four minutes We have the age of sigmar for beginners video on the t-sports network that's uh, rob simes That's house, which is rather amusing Very nice. They are both linked below So whether you're looking for some quick short entertainment or maybe a video to share With yos is cool or you want to get deep into haywows take on it Uh, both of those are linked down there. Tom What would you like to share with everybody? I so you mentioned, uh Brennan's victory over dug the defeat of the bone splitters by the trees And so I'm going to actually uh spruke the Um, I'm gonna go one step farther and spruke dug's video So we had heard about dug's challenge video. Yeah, is the campaign Uh kind of challenge video that he did leading up the prior week But what you may not know is that he made a A follow-up video Acknowledging and announcing the defeat the the inability of worgog To uh to keep his promises So that happened And it's a very delightful humorous two minute video that dug put on and I would encourage you to check that out He also did a special on might haunt Um, but I'm gonna mention my pick. That's my pick. Oh, is it? Yes So while you're on dug's channel, check if you want more night haunt content. He also goes through the book Uh dug doesn't get every fact right, but that's okay It's I still agree with his overall points He's he's absolutely right in the book and I one of the things I appreciate about dug and he says this very openly in the in his show Is that he's always approaching it from the point of view of a new player And so if you're somebody who's uh more casual more newer and thinking about getting into night haunt I think he makes a lot of really good points about stuff that you're going to find enjoyable And stuff that you might find challenging in the army Because it is a johnny-ish book meaning like a that it trades on player skill being quite rewarding and Involving a lot of like list tech and stuff like that to really extract the most value from the book as you'll see um Then Uh, you know, there can be some challenges and I think he's pretty clear on that stuff, which I like so Check those out Uh, very good. All right well Gentlemen, uh, what have you been working on niko? You've been you've been doing any hobby. What's what's been on your hobby desk my man? Uh, quite a few armies. I've just finished off, uh, deacon Uh, I've been building up, uh, iron jaws with cragnos. It's been really fun Uh, and I have just been acquiring night haunt models like mad to add to the existing one. So like You know 50 harridans 50 blade guy brevers Revenants and like 70 or chain rasps. So Uh, yeah, plus the heroes. So, yeah, that's Sort of polishing them up. So they're getting ready to paint Nice. So you're you're ready to go with any list. That is what we're going to talk through Like you are just you're ready to hit the table with all the spoopy boys No matter what the the situation is what I'm gonna do here at least three of them I think there's probably like five five or so styles you could do I'm not doing the hex rates, but Trying to pull three of the others Nice. Nice. I love it. Tom What have you been did you have you get any hobbies since you got back? I I have I wasn't home 24 hours. So one of the models that I pulled in the raffle Um, you might uh at fall wars was actually kurdos Um, and so I wasn't home 24 hours before I was building models again Um, and so actually it was 12 hours after I got home I had gotten up and started building kurdos. And so this is what's on my current table Hope you can see this or not. Oh, no, it's all breaking Um, so it's see it is a lot of ghosts. So I have uh next month I have Uh, Atlantic city open coming up. Um, and then I have a meltdown in July midwest meltdown and then I have nova in august Or not nova. I have nash conan august two weeks later than nova It's being September So I say all that to say, uh, I have a pretty fixed idea of what I'm going to take I'm definitely going to take ghosts at this point. Um because Place my play style from this weekend I should be able to mimic it pretty closely with the new armies and so I'm uh, I'm excited to Um to to give that a try and so I don't have to paint a whole lot more. Um But I'm getting to do my grim gas. Uh, you get to take a free night A free warband from underworlds to midwest meltdown and so I'm paint painting up the the ghosts for that Uh, so yeah, it'll be fun awesome very good Uh, I am putting the finishing touches on the nether maize speaking of of scaven The the nether maize scaven. This is the last guy I have to work on the actual leader. I saved him for last I've got a jumpy boy All done. There's jumpy boy on his little smoke cloud The rest of them are all done. I got of course all of my assassins I always put them in all white never in all black because Look snake eyes was cool But storm shadow was cooler if you're a ninja and you wear all white that says something about how deadly you are Okay. Yeah, totally. I mean storm shadow just sealed that for us. It's what I'm saying So yep, just finishing him up. All that's left to do on him is his base Uh, but yeah, uh, these guys are are fun. Um They're very different Scaven in in how they're sculpted Um, some of the things are a little more challenging on them Like the fur, you know, like they have fur obviously right in certain patches patchy places And on the old scaven models, it's relatively well defined where that fur is And kind of easy to pick out Now that they're sculpted digitally and they can be like super duper duper duper fine with that fur It's like a little too small to actually render exactly correctly Uh, once you're like once you've put any kind of pain over you're like wait, where's the fur? It just disappeared because it's so small So but they're cool. Um, so got those all I'll finish those up here real soon Uh, and then then that's Then I'll go back to having every unit for scaven Painted so nice That's that's the that's always the goal. I got to stay current that I have every unit ready to go Uh, okay, uh as we transition into our main topic here Uh, I'm gonna say hey guess what folks Hit that like button subscribe if you haven't already do those fun things share it click buttons They're fun just like it says up there in the corner buttons are fun. Uh, so Uh, don't forget to hit that and share it It really helps the channel and helps other people find it which we really appreciate and it costs zero dollars, which is awesome Okay gentlemen Shall we talk about? night haunt 2022 Before I flip to my summary screen and make my points. I actually want to let both of you expound about your 40 000 foot high level view of this book So nico hit us with your high level thoughts. What what's your what's your high level view on this book? Okay, yeah, I've got a few a few points here. So They've essentially taken a D tier army that was almost spectacularly ill-suited to the monster meta that we had Uh and reinvented it through some really good battle traits Some streamlined but still targeted war scrolls. They really do a job And they produced what is probably an eightier army I think it sits alongside the likes of iron jaws nurgle fireslayers deacon um, and it has you know choice of distinctive play styles that you know hit the narrative really well um Has there is a downside it has resurrected one particular play style, which is fairly misery inducing And that could probably have stayed in the coffin But you know the other three or four play styles are really solid and interesting. So there's lots to do there Um, it leans into msu in a way that we really haven't seen for a melee army Bring more than any other book, which is fantastic Uh, it's a relief because also that you're dealing with you know only one one sort of combat unit of multiple models That's got a two inch reach and only one unit's on a 25 mil base So you're trying to you know operate with you know big blocks You know, you're gonna have serious coherency issues if you don't have the ability to fight in an msu style So that really helps um What I would say is that some of the play styles do encourage Sort of spam of like the primaries that are you know, you're taking alongside some sort of tech pieces and heroes um, and that While in some respects, that's bad. Perhaps for you know beginning players And this was you know version two an army that was aimed at beginners um You know operating with a reduced selection of war scrolls is not necessarily a bad thing Uh, might be just just what you want for a beginner's army You can you know pick whichever one of the three or four models that you particularly like take 40 or 50 of those Take the heroes heroes that you like like the war scrolls of or like the models of and you've got a you know solid army so Those are my thoughts. I think I I agree with all of that tom. What are you? Yeah, I mean so What I would say is that I uh I really am excited about it as an army um I have a couple concerns And not the standard concerns that one might have right um One is the potential for just extreme mpe experience for timmy players um because What is essentially true about this army? is that Imagine almost any buff that can be debuff that can be found in all of age of sigmar And this army has reach into it. Sure So penalties to hit penalties to wound penalties to save in robust numbers, um attack reduction of damage always strikes last attacks l Stealing action points messing with other people's action point economy. Yep Um, all of it is on command points. I'm sorry. Yeah command points. All of it is here is the point Um, and so for some people especially like timmy style players This could be a real frustrating army to play because it's a lot of like you don't get to play your army You know no retreat right like a lot of things that are Just bad experiences. This army has in profusion. Like that's what it's doing um, the other thing that I that's on the experience of the army on the other side of the table on As playing the army one concern that I have is, uh, it's Um, you know many armies that I would run for night haunt would easily have between 70 and 100 models Like that was just a very real number That I used to you know like to have in field and the reality is is that um because this whole army is, uh Retreat in charge Every model is retreat in charge And because the entire mechanic revolves around charging Like in order for you to have a functional mechanic you need to charge every turn with most model Not everything but most things And what the consequence of that is is that you may have to literally touch your entire army three times Wants to retreat it to move back to retreat wants to recharge and then to pile it Um, and so like you could feasibly be touching three moving 300 model like 300 model moves per turn and so it's just there's like um It is going to it could be a problem for some Forces, that's what I'll say Okay But that's it overall I love it and I have a lot of hopes for it and it's something that I'm gonna play for probably a while Yeah Here's my summary Um, I think it's an extremely variable army as Nico you already mentioned You know, it's got a strong internal balance and multiple paths to victory You know, we've already mentioned some of the tension in the book between like msu versus some horde type options It'll be interesting to see how that evolves by the way as we go into hashtag horde meta on the new ghp And sort of what those kinds of incentives look like Um, and does that does the the build become like a single horde with you know a lot of msu floating around it and stuff like that We'll we'll see um Most units and heroes have some interesting angle or reason to be played though. There are misses in the book We'll we'll discuss the misses like there are some that you read and you're like not skip like just Didn't quite get there But I will say that that's not super common a lot of these you could see putting in an army And I think it's it's pretty strong on its internal balance Um, it does read as though msu is the favored path, but it doesn't have to be the only path I already mentioned it many times, but it is a very johnny book It is absolutely a toolbox army. It has a lot of different sort of things you can keep in your pocket Ready for whatever opponent you might uh meet. I agree with you on the potential for some of the mpe Although we'll talk through that and how that balances out Because it's interesting in that the mpe is not completely but a lot of it is restricted to your turn Um, and like on the opponent's turn they aren't nearly as subject to it potentially Yeah, yeah Um, and I will say one of the interesting sides of that Is that as a melee army this actually is our this army is actually quite susceptible to the double turn Um, like they have a they have a double turn Achilles heel So you really have like the your your five p's serves you well here prior planning prevents poor performance, right? Um, you want to make sure you can absorb the double if it happens if you're in if you're in that kind of position So, okay So that's our summary for everything All right Let's get into some deets shall we okay Deets All right, I'm gonna timestamp us here Uh, let's talk about the allegiance abilities the basic ones And this is where I want to make my first point They have a ton of allegiance abilities Just all of them. It's just so many Now that I think that is largely because most of their units are still bad All right, like by the standards if you look at what you get out of other armies The actual pound for pound, you know point for point punch per point Right something like storm cast or or iron jaws or something like that gets a lot more out of their individual model Right, they are crappier units Then let's call it the average in the game just like I mean taken as the war scroll alone Right if you were to literally just read the war scroll Yeah, like if you're allying them in if you're pulling them in another army Yeah, these are pretty terrible allies in most cases not all but most Um, you know, you know what the benefit is at least they can receive save buffs in other armies Because they're not ethereal in other armies. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, that is That's that's uh, that's both a funny thing and the ghost joins up with the other people in their life We're good now guys We could be it again They join up they're like they suddenly solidify. Yeah, exactly Yes, that is a very funny side effect, but like The nature of their allegiance abilities are almost not their allegiance abilities bring them up Many of their allegiance abilities are like we're gonna bring you Down To us Like you have to play our terrible game, right? We're pretty crappy. I'm gonna make you crappy And then let's see who wins if we're both crappy Right. Yeah. Oh, you just became crappy, but I was born in it molded by it I've been a crappy war scroll for my entire existence fat man Right. That's kind of what they're doing so all right Cool beans. Let's get into the individual stuff They have legions, processions, whatever sub factions. We'll get them in a minute Uh or of dread This is a really funny ability Okay Um, and I mean it's terrified while they're within three inches of any night haunt units while the unit is terrified It cannot issue or receive the inspiring presence command has no effect on other ghosts So in the mirror match, you can't stop other ghosts from inspiring presence other ghosts are not scared by your ghosts Check that Aside from the Uh The obvious like ludonarrative dissonance of this of like who would be legitimately scared of ghosts in this world Of of like demigods and stuff like that. Right. Yeah, exactly like nah, no dog That mountain is walking and eating whole cities. That's scary. You're just some dude. Who's dead? I got this But aside from that particular piece of ludonarrative dissonance like I I enjoy the idea Of chaos demons who live within the madness inducing wastes seeing a ghost and be like, oh my Um, but anyways Uh, it's a really powerful ability Uh, because it's also going to be where some of their damage comes from potentially and other things trigger off of being terrified We'll talk about this later But some of their damage can clearly come from the fact that everybody's basically rolling battle shock tests unless they have other non inspiring presence Immunities, right? Yeah, like the Yeah, it is and they're getting rarer, right? He's like, uh, like the screaming bell just lost theirs, right? um No, they didn't they still did the screaming about me. There's I can't comment on that tom. Oh, sorry I don't sorry. I was uh, nick. I was invoking the leaks. I don't know whether I thought that I I read in the WhatsApp chat that they lost it. So, um, but regardless, uh Uh, yeah, it seems like, you know, like, uh, daughter of kane still have a little bit here or there which with witchbrew, I think um And uh, yeah, I mean it's there. LRL has it with the catholars. Um, yeah But it is few and far in between Yeah, that came into play actually, uh, this last weekend because I got a game in Uh, and there was some night haunt. It was a multiplayer game and I and the night haunt player went after the Elora the LRL player and was like, not how you can't inspire your presence. The LRL player was like, I steal their No, no, no This is not it and uh, I got so many dumb abilities. You don't even know, son A double zombie at the of lumen s and uh, a night haunt because scary. There you go. Absolutely Uh, so I it's a cool ability. It's very potent um So, you know, that's it's it's nice. It's good start One of the interesting things is because of what we're about to read in the next ability You may sometimes find that your triggers aren't always in place correctly when you want them to be So like you've got to think about what I mean is you mentioned the retreat and charge Which is in ethereal. We're about to get to it, right? Right And because the whole army has ethereal. Let's just just get it out there ethereal is everybody's got a war to six up Good. We don't need a hero around to be a ghost anymore. So that's nice Well, that's your life. Yeah, absolutely. Just such a quality of life improvement I appreciate it so deeply It's it's it's always ridiculous that ghosts suddenly dip work ghosts anymore because there wasn't a hero around to inspire them Whatever Anyway, there was a moment. There's the moment where my black coach got stuck in Like I had to push a bit push on to an objective and I put you know, I extended push deep in their line And then he went at me with plague bearers and I was like, I'm good aw Like because I was like, yeah, I don't have my word save anymore. So I'm once I'm just on a four of unreadable So they got a war to six up they can army wide retreat and charge and old ethereal No, no no modifiers positive or negative, right? Okay Now the thing that's interesting about that retreat and charge is it can sometimes nonbow with terrified in certain ways Because if you pull like you pull all your units out in the movement phase, that means you're not in combat anymore with them They're not terrified at that exact moment So depending on when you're trying to trigger things Which this can sometimes come up if you're trying to like trigger something in the shooting phase, for example And there's a couple instances of this And you retreated everybody out It's like no one's terrified anymore because you left Right. So you got to think about the interactions there. This goes back when I said you you want to retreat most of the time You might want to leave one sort of token, you know, 95 point years still in combat and not least because you also want to stop The enemy redeploying five or six. That's exactly right And so all your charges are Not three inches anymore Yep, exactly. It's the other thing you got to think about. You're you're exactly right. And that's why I think The the second layer of this Is I think that you're always going to see some msu component of this even in a hoardier build or at least Some heroes that can perform that role like cheaper heroes that can perform that role who can corner tag and just stick around And and stay there and hold people while the other units pull out not only to keep units terrified But yes, you just hit the nail on the head niko to stop the redeploy Right because you walk away and they walk away from you. It's like now is number nine inches apart that said um The reality is is that uh, they increased the movement on basically all the worst roles Like before that like pen and the fell wind was this plus three movement bubble Well, they just gave two inches to everybody Yeah, yeah Like the whole army is eight And so the actually the good news about that is that when you retreat because you're flying you can fly over them And sandwich them between your two units, so there's nowhere for them to redeploy out Sometimes depending on the particular mark johnny players, you know, we'll be able to like control the redeploy Sure, but that said it'll yeah, uh, it could be ugly Yep It it'll it oftentimes you can get behind them assuming they're not in a formation where that's obviously impossible or something Yes, it's but you're absolutely it's a possibility another quick one is the I think it's a start of Start of movement phase teleport unusually And it's all rack that you could potentially Like teleport behind a mega gargant to stop it redeploying very far Right, right, right. Yep Oh, we're gonna talk about him. We're gonna talk about the boatman. Absolutely because he is uh, he is an interesting dude I like the boatman I'm happy with him Uh, discorporate is our next allegiance ability and it's called. Sorry. You didn't get all out defense. Here's a better ability That's exactly right Here is your faction specific all out defense. Congratulations Now, so it it is so good. Um The important part, okay Is the wording here you can use this command ability when a friendly night haunt unit is picked as the target of an attack In the shooting or combat phase. So it's just like all out defense But that unit must receive the command that unit has a ward of five plus instead of six plus until the end of that phase The key here being is that there are some units in this book that just have their own built-in ward saves Often being higher than that, you know being already at base five up or higher You can't discorporate that up another point. It doesn't work like that Because uh, you can't include a gosh and the gosh bumps it down a point This is a flat plus one to ward saves. So What's her face olander can sit on a three up ward? I mean, I think that sounds like a terrible army Details details, but yes, it is doable Uh All right, the big news and i'm curious to get both of your takes on this because this is a there's a lot to this ability Wave of terror basically our replacement for our old school Uh roulette wheel of just like this is do we or whatever the Your little what are these things called? Slot machine. Thank you. That's what I was trying to think of. Yeah, you're a little slot machine, right? okay so uh After a friendly night hot unit finishes a charge move you can look at the un Modified charge roll that charge unit wave of terror table pick one enemy unit within one inch of that night hot unit And then apply the relevant effect from that table to that enemy unit If you prefer you can go lower Which is good because if you happen to nail multiple 10 plus charges You you're never you don't need to make them fight last twice generally. So okay great Your oftentimes going to fall into you're going to want to fall down into neg one to save or something like that Um, so you can always pick a lower effect and these effects are all cumulative Which this is a big incentive towards msu building Right where because you want to be stacking multi charging two three units charging into something pretty regularly Uh on your min charge, which is three inches nothing happens on effectively any other number Uh, you're getting something Right, you're getting either neg one to hit neg one to save or applying the strike last effect to the unit And yes, as you caught as and as I said these do all stack So if you happen to nail like I did watch this happen during that game where three units charged and three units rolled an eight That happens And suddenly it was like that unit was neg three to save it was like whoa Hello That's a big old penalty. Yep So any who um The it should be noted by the way that the other important point to drop down Is You might not need to always negative the save sometimes the negative to hit could be more effective to stack Just to stop them from all out attacking out of it So for example, like if you're charging into things that already have a very low save and you have there's there's things like neg one rend in this army Um, if you're charging into other ethereal things or the things that don't modify their save, right? They can't get positives or negatives. There's no reason to apply that status effect So you might as well drop to the negative to hit and just stack it up So they can they're buried under the the locks neg one that kind of thing So all right niko what's your take on this on this table? Yeah, I love it. This is it's another game changer It really synchronizes well with the retreat in charge. So you've got the opportunity to do this and essentially all your turns potentially you're close enough Uh, as you say, it's kind of like they've gone from the roulette wheel to the blackjack table It's a bit more control, but it still is a gambling element Right, you know, sometimes you're going to roll that three in charge You might think well, maybe I'll re-roll it and maybe you roll the number one, but um, hopefully you get a You know nice taste the eight or a ten Yeah, as previously there was sort of one and six chance for the ten up to get the big effects It's kind of a wash between the the old effect was like you fight in the charge like you fight immediately Uh, so you're in the charge phase. So like all that the fence wasn't working and like But also all our attack wasn't working and you know various other buffs and shields and things probably weren't working either So that was a bit messy. So I think they really by just making it a straight last on the opponent It's cleaned it up again This army is much better at dealing with a small number of like dragon units or Gargants or the like It doesn't want to be playing against another msu army because it can't like focus fire and have like five units on one To start and stack these buffs up and debuff them if you're sort of putting You know a minus on a hit on a fireman enemy unit. They're not going to care that much Right the other point I I sort of wanted to hone in on is they're within an inch So it's not within three inches so If you're trying to attack something like protectors sitting behind vindictors or Oh, I drink hang on. Maybe not maybe in version two I was going to say storm vermin behind clan rats, but maybe you know thralls behind some on the chaff unit Yeah You are going to be unable to debuff that that unit that's behind the outer screen and then Potentially, you know you can crush the outer screen, but then you're going to be within three inches of the the hammer And then you're in trouble potentially so again sort of mixed armed castle armies You may not be so happy Yeah, I think that's all exactly right. The other thing I would point out Is I think a lot of people read this and see the that like they're like, wow, these are some really powerful effects and like Yeah, they are right They they are they're good The trick is they're only applying in that following combat phase It's going to tick over to the enemy's turn potentially and all of these things Go away And that that enemy unit, I mean barring a couple There are some effects that we'll talk about obviously like spells and other debuffs that we'll talk about that can ride And there could still be a you know present but Like this stuff is gone and when it rolls to the enemy's turn as I mentioned They're going to start fighting like they fight again Uh, and so You know depending on what's left if they're able to sort of absorb that Yeah Yeah, you know again just to go back to the luminous because it's an easy example, right If they come in and you attack them and yeah, you get some good pennies on them But they drop a penny and they all out defense and they have the protection of teclis up or whatever, right? And you cause just relatively few casualties or problems And then that unit of warden spins around to its turn and puts up its sun metal weapons It's just going to be like well time to kill some ghosts It just it just hack through you right So that kind of stuff you have to be wary of Yeah I agree what I would say is I still think that the I think you're underselling how defensive Some of these buffs are Some of it will be very reliable and what I mean by that is like the the the bonus on the ward save Um, and even like there's a number of like ways to perm a like hand out like negatives to wound and stuff like that Agreed. I agree. Yeah, I don't I don't want to overstate it. You're right I there but it but that that depends on how you build your list tech right when we get to that kind of Certainly, certainly, certainly Uh, yes, right now. I wish I was hey, well, and I just had the busting uh thing that he's that he's got on on loop But no no no such excellent stream deck for me um, okay, so Now let's talk about truly my favorite rule Written in this entire book bar none Okay, this next rule is my favorite rule. They've written in this book Maybe in any book so far second only to Disease the disease. I knew you're gonna say that. Yeah. Yeah because yet again There's letting the baby we figured out how to fix the problem Mortal wounds on sixes are too effective. They are about mathematically four times more effective than a regular wound Which is too much That's too much That's too good and it creates an efficiency slash scalability problem So instead here they've got frightful touch where if the unmodified hit roll for an attack made by a friendly night hunt unit is six That attack wounds the target automatically and I will say Man, this actually feels really good Like I watched the the the player play this and they would just like roll out attacks and be like, oh cool These are all auto wounds and they would just set them aside and then roll for their wounds and then add to the pile Right, but they just felt so good Skipping that wound roll step Because it speeds things up these things up. Yeah. Yes. It's faster If you roll less dice And it's still a good rule like it's powerful but not broken good Yeah, this is great I was going to say I think they borrowed this from from 40k. There's a couple of examples there and like Obviously, there's the sort of elf keyword version The elder version is like sixes count as a six to wound and then the six to wound could also trigger something But this isn't quite that powerful But yeah, it's as you say, it's a lot quicker The other interesting thing is that before you get particularly sometimes you're wounding on fives and sixes Because you're trying to smash a knight with a las gun or a bolter or something And then every one of those sixes is worth three or six Wound rolls effectively right because one is it you're going to go through So here it really rewards things like chain wraps that are only winning on fours It's a bit less good for your elites and your heroes and stuff that might be a winning on two or three It's also really nice for the this is here's a here's a very funny small corner case that I that I that I found There's a lot of weird units that have Sort of incidental shooting attacks Yeah, not like one shooting attack Yeah, yeah, and the more any anytime I see a shooting profile that says one attack I'm like worthless immediately worthless. This will never do anything. Okay I say that now But uh, but I did blow up a whole lot of ghosts with uh with a uh a bomb from a warlock bomb to your Of course you did Just blew the heck out of a unit of grim gas reefers Anyways, then that's a single shooting attack But the point is is that the chance that you've got it the fact that you got a 16% chance to skip one of your failure Conditions in that single attack actually makes those single things slightly more uh effective So that's nice What would a larry will pay for that? Oh my god, yeah, right? How many times have you had a shooting attack that's on like twos and threes or threes and twos and you're like and hit and nope I watched teclas with his like so selenar blast And he was like, oh here we go. I'm gonna wipe out some ghosts. He's like one right. Yeah, exactly. Yep Yep, okay Uh, so I I like I love this rule. I think it's great Um, and I'm excited about how well balanced it is and how cool it is for the army And just it's it is just a great piece of design and it makes me so happy Um, and then finally vanishing phantasms, which is just the new way they're doing their deploy half your army in ambush Only this time that's now limited to three friendly units because they knew if they were encouraging msu They didn't want you to be able to put like 50 units up in the Up in the heavens, right? Right. Um, well, I mean there there would be times before I mean you were joking around about about my list last week, right? But I was 13 and 14 drops. Yeah. Yeah, and so you know what I can assure you is that if anybody was under five drops They never at none of my real army was ever deployed before somebody was fully deployed Every single game Well, and the nice part about this is this does it is being able to remove Three and then put them in the heavens is actually better than having to Just as you're deploying put three in because you get to see the whole state of what's been done And then pick up three key units. Yeah, good. Thanks. Exactly. Yep Exactly. So it's just a much more potent ability to be able to be like, ah, not gotcha Gotcha Yep Okay, so all in all, I think allegiance ability is good flavorful Powerful but not broken Interesting ways they work. Yeah, like a plus work. Love them Cool Let's talk about coming up. Oh, yeah, I love all of it. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's just great Let's talk. Uh, the only the only miss You didn't mention processions like just add generically like they have something to help professions because uh well I we need to pour one out for right nor's condemned Because it's gone now I understand like right door Right doors been demoted like he was he was the hotness and now he he's not even anybody of significance anymore Now, you know, you know, the key word of a different one now Say what has he got like the key word of a different one now? Just yeah, I think so I'll have to pull it up real quick He's grieving. I think yeah, which it's just it's nonsensical But whatever because he used to be able to count as a general and all that and just It's just got robbed. Sorry, right nor Shame for him. Okay. We can okay now We're not gonna cover. I'm not gonna cover all the command traits and artifacts as always because I don't want to be here for All time So instead we're gonna do our standard game here Of nico. What is your pick out of this lot? For the command traits Yeah, I mean, I would say that uh, can I say master of magic? That's absolutely a valid answer Sadly, this is probably one of the weakest points of the book Uh cloaked in shadow is interesting But I would rather it was like a buff that you like a spell that you put on one of your own like big melee units Rather than a you know, five or six wing foot hero Um, yeah, there's a lot of situational a lot of matchup dependent Fortunately, but you know the rest of the book more than makes up for it But it's it's not one of the strong points as far as I can see. Yeah I tom you got any picks you think about on this other that by the way master of magic is the universal command trait Just so we're all clear that allows you to once a hero phase reroll a cast So which is good super good, especially since you got a lot of you know potential wizard generals Okay, go ahead tom Um cloaked in shadow was what I gravitated gravitated towards first Um when I was building lists and then I was like, I don't know ruler of the spirit host Because I used to enjoy that like the old version just restored a d3 models now It gives you a 50 50 chance of like getting a half power unit But I like reliability and neither of the like like none of those are doing what I need it to Because the reality is is that like cloaked in shadow My problem with cloaked in shadow Ultimately is Like you need to protect against like the block of sentinels Sure, it doesn't stop the big block of sentinels. It doesn't stop the the big block adjudicators or Long strikes or whatever. It's it's interesting cloaked in shadow is interesting And depending on how the meta evolves it could end up being a potential pick Maybe but what I actually ended up gravitated into and I think that this is what I'm going to run for the foreseeable future is actually spiteful spirit Um because so what it does is at the end of the combat phase if you're general You know out was allocated any wounds and that were not negated Which I like from this weekend I As part of my play style like I push all of my heroes in almost all the time Because knight haunt heroes have a wonderful attack profile, especially if they're buffed Because when they are they're in the bubble of buffs and we'll talk about this They're on twos and twos like universally all of them are So they're on twos and twos knight one run two damage like that is the normal profile It's just however many attacks of that you're getting and so But this and so I regularly even like I would put heroes in places where they like they shouldn't be fighting Because of like being threatened by giants or whatever and the reality is is that between the ethereal and the ward save These heroes are really durable And unless somebody dumps all of their attacks All their super punchy attacks into a hero. They won't lift heroes Sure They just won't because of the layers of defenses like that And so what's fascinating is that I will often have heroes taking one or two damage Yep Each phase like that like because I had them in combat And so what this this ability does is this plays on that and what it says is if they took damage that weren't negated You can roll a number of dice equal to the wounds characteristic of the general. Yep Okay, um every uh four plus For every four plus rolled each Enemy within six inches each unit takes a mortal wound. Yep And this combo is really really nicely with an individual that I would probably choose to be my general regularly Which is the night shrouds on ethereal steed. Yeah, because he gets the pony knight The pony knight because he starts at six wounds and then every time he kills a model with his sword He goes up one wins characteristic, right So like every combat phase if you have him grinding He's going to be jumping. Uh, he's going to be More than likely able to to being pulsing out anywhere between three and five mortal wounds And the really nice the really nice energy is with the body guards, uh, ruled at the spirit house now Yep. Yeah, I got hard to kill So it can just be in a place where You know, I I agree completely. I think For me, it's either a spiteful spirit or honestly just the good old ignax scales. I'm glad to see ignax is back and Over on that depending on what you general is just moving your because it's only against mortal wounds But that can be often how times I'm gonna be big down um And so, you know, it's fine. Ignax was ignax. It's never bad. I I miss you ignax scales. I want you back Um, but it's it's worse as a command trait than as an artifact Let me just say that but I'm still glad it exists But no spiteful spirit again, it's it we mentioned the johnny nature of the book You mentioned the combo with the knight of shrouds totally agree That six inch pulse is actually a pretty big pulse Oh, I know Of mortal wounds like because it's hitting every unit Right, so you're thinking well, yeah, okay. It's only like three mortal wounds. Yeah Yeah, it's like every enemy units every within combat base, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's a lot It's so good. It's so good It can actually turn that character into a potential hammer in a way. They just couldn't be otherwise Yeah, so yeah, I agreed. Okay. Cool Uh, let's talk relics. Uh, so we got multiple different relic sheets here Uh, nico, you got you got any of the let's start with the basic ones here on this page any of these three Uh, grabbing you. I mean, I think I know which one I'm gravitating toward but which one do any of them grab you? Two of these but I'll I'll go with and probably four overall for all the artifacts I probably say midnight tome is the most interesting Though it does you kind of have to build the list around it So you're basically getting a and then the spell reliably a bit like the doc have gone a You know an invocation reliably without having to roll any dice and without the proponent being able to stop it Or I suppose it's similar to the spell in a bottle, although it's not any endless spell under the sun So You're probably sadly going to be doing it with one of the classic endless spells rather than the one in the battle tone So maybe life swarm, which is obvious utility healing either single models well or healing a hero as well Or possibly you could do a you know more of a combo with Say riken or and humble spell portal. You could maybe put fight last through through the portal reliably because right The person with this artifact will put the portal down 100% not even tectas can stop it and then Riken will be plus three to cast Soul cage from out of Out of range of an unbind. So it's a it's potential, but it is something you have to invest in Yeah, I would say also don't sleep on our good old friend the the terminado that we'll talk about I I know I like you were saying all that me go and I was like Or termin axis. Yeah, also it was still a six inch bubble of d3 mortals I played against it. I that's uh the hamster dt and he was the strongest part of the army. Um, however, it's got a price tag on it which is Which is Um, I wouldn't take it out unless I had this artifact So I've got only guarantee one use out of it. Um, well, I took it against texas For and it was game five right like that was the end And I like I knew that he wasn't going to move texas out of the castle And so right door was sitting just outside of the 30 inch bubble Um, and so then like he didn't come out to me right, you know to out of his castle And so I was like cool cool story and I just threw a terminus right in the middle of the lumenath army And there was literally nothing they could do How's they nerfed the range of the current the world the new world scroll they Uh, they have so the new one instead of uh setting up 18 it sets up 12 out So but it still sets up 12. It's all moves a And then pulses six inches off that so it's still a 26 inch threat, which is very good by current standards of Oh, yeah, my god by current standards of damaging, uh endless spells. It's maybe the best honestly So yeah, I assume your second choice is pendant of the fell wind Yeah, yeah, I mean we all like pendant right because pendant is like wildly crazily good um Subtract one from wound rolls for a tax made with melee weapons by enemy units while they're within three inches of the bearer All units, you know, we've got some void chill power going on here Uh, it's just it's great. It's freaking great And this speaks to what you were talking about earlier tom of like being able to maintain debuffs Across turns right dependent allows you to do that Yeah, it's interesting because it basically turns any hero into an executioner Um, because that's that's what the executioner hero does and when you're contending for like hero slots I really liked like a sheet melee hero like an executioner And so I started with him or like a cairn wraith initially And then the more and more I build it. I was looking at this I was like or while I'll just grab an item and give this or I'll Free up that slot and give this to somebody else that can apply the debuff if I really want that. Yeah So It's good All right, very good. Let's talk. Let's continue here because we have more artifacts so many artifacts Uh, so obviously we've got some weapons and we've got some infernal treasures So off of this page niko anything at all, uh, anything at all grab you The whole page, uh, the light shard, uh, it's just it's a lovely plus one attack buff Which is like 50% extra damage on many of your, uh, Units of melee troops. So Great. It's a bubble. Um, yeah, solid Yep Uh, I I do not mind the light shard at all big giant plus one attack bubbles, which this is Are generally pretty good, especially in an army that can still frankly struggle to do damage Um against some of the the forces arrayed out there um I want to give a special shout out to the reaper of sorrows for being an absolutely terrible artifact Uh But no underline Yeah, but But having rend neg for actually written down. So we've got our rend neg for Weapon that got put in the game. I mean, it's like It's terrible Okay, it's a terrible artifact, but I appreciate that we finally wrote the rend neg for artifact into the game So so thanks for crossing that barrier. We've this is the this is the rubicon We've been we've been hovering on the other side of for all of aos Well, we finally got rend for officially now. Yeah, let's see what we've been alive before we know it Oh, absolutely The two that I like Are the soul fire ring. Yep. Yeah, I like the soul fire ring healing. Yes. I it's a soul fire ring in That in that combo. Yeah. Yeah with with my guy who's like chopping up little wieners and then pulsing out these These uh, these bubbles of damage because Yeah, yep, because he's going to be body guarded and he's on a heal of d6 plus one because his sword also heals a one So his wound characteristic goes up one the sword heals in one whenever he kills the model And this is a d6 on top of that. Um, I mean, he's he is going to be in it to win it um And just pulse and damage out like a madman and then the other is I actually kind of like slitter That's okay. Um Because there's not they have removed most of the ways in the game to remove models out of units sure And this is still one way where if you're multi-charging like oftentimes you're going to retreat out and then be able to like strategically hit where you want And if they're not burying their wizard hero in a lumeneth army, if they're not burying their captains Their banner bearers stuff like that deep in their line. You are going to lift them before the fight starts every single time now And that'll be by the way before you even attack So if there are special effects that they grant they actually get lifted before they can issue a command because they're not selected to attack Right. So for example, like a lot of defensive things like when this unit is selected, you know, you can trigger, you know, like odd defense or whatever or i'm thinking about the Stuff for oc arc, right? That comes that comes off of their their characters. Yeah You can you can lift those hecatos before they can activate those abilities because this triggered ability happens before that unit is selected for combat sure Which is a really interesting like again, johnny like Cowbell that you just simply don't see anywhere else in the game right now um And so I think that like or like this has made it into some of my lists Because I simply like I like having this as a tool in my army if I need to remove models um, and It's really funny to me to have a way to just lift, um hearthguard berserkers and lift Well tag bears or even blight kings like on a five or six you lift a blight king model Yeah, yeah, no, you're absolutely right. I it it is Actually interesting because there are many very hard units you go into Yeah, that your chances of literally removing one model after your attacks aren't even assured So getting another chance to just Lift one up can actually be valuable on those other those other enemy units. Yes Things that are like four wounds three wounds super tough You know annihilators Blight kings Those kinds of things being able to just be like now What are our what are our culminators? So you can't you can't get them. Yeah, because you have to roll greater than Yeah, I'll lift an annihilator though. I'll take that sure Uh, okay. Yeah, I like so again some some good picks here. That that's a good defensive slitter I hadn't thought about it in those terms, but I don't uh, I don't disagree with you at all. That's good All right spell lures Nico You get one spell you're choosing. Let's just say What's your top pick? Oh, it's tough between two of them, but it's good. It's the two defensive ones It I'll go for shade mist for the the minus one to be wounded on a chosen unit Yeah It could mainly because you can rep you can rep. Well, it's that was on shooting as well Which is great there to be like the melee minus one to wounds that we've discussed already Um seal of sci sci is also very good. You could potentially replicate that effect with um The command ability disc is corporate But I'd probably I'd some list you'll take both of those bells. I'm sure Tom I mean for me, uh My it's funny. I've actually like in my lists. I take four of the six of these Like mixed across three casters with like a double enhancement Uh, because I I love a lot of what it's all toolbox stuff all of it and that's what I love about it But what's your topic? What do you take in number one? Uh, she'll a seal of sciage every time. Okay um because Always always because the reality is this I'm gonna hit a unit with that and then hit another unit with discord break Yeah, or another two units potentially, right or if if by some chance I end up running negash in a list right um Seal allows that unit to go up to down to a four reward Right. Yeah. Yeah, which is nice because yeah, so because it's not double command ability And so because of negash is reduced by one as a command ability And so if you have like a big pack of grim gas or chain raps out in front of negash, right? He's gonna he's gonna cast this on them Because he gets the lore and then he's gonna reduce it by one. And so you're gonna have like grim gas that are now on And uh, phoenix guard numbers Forge and force unrendable And and he's gonna put models back in that unit, which is just it's a nightmare And what you haven't mentioned is the casting value of five, which is extremely generous, right? Yes Absolutely Uh, is soul cage making either of your lists as you keep going? Yes. Yeah soul cage is an honorable mention for me Um as a spectral tether Um being able to pick up heroes and relocate them anywhere in the battlefield is always a good thing Yeah, sure. And I mean again, you talk about generous casting values The the the spectral, you know hero only teleports as a long time scaven player I know the value of this sort of tool, uh And you know casting something on a four is just like yes, that's that's what I want to see right? It's reliable. Um I want to pour one out for Uh spirit the old spirit drain which used to throw dice equal to the wounds characteristic Which I made uh my round one opponent eat twice Um, I threw 35 dice one time and 40 dice another time against sun's army Um And made a meet a bunch of mortals that way. Uh, so pour one out for the old spirit drain because now we just got the bad a Bad horde the bad horde denter one. It's not even a horde killer. Yeah, the horde thinner The horde thinner and then uh pour one out also for reaping side Which was my favorite spell in the old spell lore, which was uh choosing attack re-roll hits and wins um because I was using it on my cruciator to make his Naked two rent shots like super reliable and him to put up the buff previously um, and so Because like I would put it on myself and then let them charge in at my hordes and then unleash hell with him With re-rolls and turn on the bubble suddenly in reaction to them coming in on me Um now you don't need to do that his rules changed, but I still love reaping side I still loved what it did and so it makes me sad that it's gone that re-roll hits and wins I understand though. They removed all all those effects. Yeah, so Okay, definitely four big hits and probably another one that has his uses as well So solid and and it's funny like another one that I actually like on this list for one hero specifically is lifestealer Um, I like lifestealer on ryknor Because ryknor is going to ding himself for one Yeah, get plus three to cast this spell Do a d three mortals and heal a d three Sure, so so it actually like he almost always, you know, he'll he'll always Catch back up for the wounds he lost and it's basically going off on a four then sure So um, but I wouldn't I probably wouldn't run on anybody but ryknor Yeah, and similarly soul cage. I probably only run on unryknor and if I was doing that humble spell portal tome combo Yeah, but an interesting one. I'd be doing down that hero hammer root Yep, makes sense All right, let's talk processions uh, okay So processions or you know sub factions. I mean, that's what these are Okay, uh Maybe the most underwhelming part of the book That's going to be my you are out of your damn money No, I Oh More hold on. Whoa stop more Underwhelming than the command traits Uh, okay, that's a fair statement. I was taking the command traits holistically with the artifacts, but no, okay. That's fair No, I just mean like I actually don't dislike these They're all fine They're all viable. They're just all fine Um, I'm not saying I I think you're out of your mind. I think you're out of your mind Cool, then they'd be too linear as we kind of as I kind of touched on at the start They sort of force you to spam one. Do they encourage you to spam one unit which has its pros and cons from a design Two of them do yeah, two of them do well. I mean arguably It does to some degree because it's asking you know, that's right units of a series Three of them shape your army. That is absolutely true. And then there's the one that I run Sure, which is my favorite too. So that's fine. I'm running the others All right, that's cool. Let's let's get into it. Again, I don't think these are bad I I I don't want to I don't want to get like that. I don't want to be misinterpreted here All right It's just I looked at them and I think it's the linear nature that actually bothered me I think Nico what you just hit on because everything else I was reading was so like toolboxy and Combo-rific and I could kind of take what I wanted And then I got to these and I was like, oh, these are telling me to play a very specific thing in a very specific linear way And that just didn't sit as well with me. I think that's what I'm actually identifying there Um, is that being said there is one that's not like that. So It's not like it's sort of all monsters getting this buff or all like like skinks getting this buff It's like this one more scroll Right Right. Yeah. Yeah, right. All right Okay, you know what doesn't matter running heroes with any of these No, it's like before normally like the key word at heroes It's a big deal because they don't get the effects of the sub faction in all these. It's like doesn't matter Run what you want Other than the named heroes who are attached to grieving legion, which is where a lot of people are attached But yes, but none of these things none of them affect heroes zero I understand you're you're you're not incorrect. Yes, that's totally fair So, okay, so you can take named heroes and and that actual key word does nothing Nothing, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's right Okay, let's get let's get into them grieving legion. I'm gonna burn through all four of these real fast Okay, just so we can get them all on the table Okay All right So grieving legion enemy units cannot retreat while they're within three inches of any friendly grieving grieving legion units with ten or more models Ten or more models being the most important last four words that have ever been attached to a to a sub faction sentence Yeah, okay. Um the emerald host Oh boy, okay after armies have been set up before the first battle round begins You can pick d3 plus one so two to four Different enemy units on the battlefield at the end of each battle round roll a dice for each unit You picked is on the battlefield on a two plus that unit suffers d3 mortal wounds If that unit is a monster, it suffers d3 plus one mortal wounds instead of d3. Okay, cool So you get a pick basically two to four different units and then slowly bleed them over the course of the battle So theoretically Five times over the course of the battle. I say that knowing that like obviously that's not actually true Never have I been so excited About my paint scheme matching a sub faction. Yeah, sure. Sure. Okay Uh scarlet doom Uh is after a friendly scarlet doom blade geist revenants unit makes charge move You can pick one enemy unit within one inch of that unit If you do so roll a number of dice equal to the number of models from the charging unit for each five plus That that target suffers one mortal wound So they effectively get like a pseudo ogre charge is the easiest way I would describe it It also obviously makes blade geist revenants battle line Uh, it makes you use only blade geist revenants continue Well, yeah highly incentivizes you to play a lot of blade geist revenants. Yes Uh, and then the quick silver dead Uh ward rolls cannot be made for wounds caused by attacks made by melee weapons with friendly quick silver dead dread scythe heredon units Uh, and that makes dread scythe heredon battle line. And yes encourages you to play dread scythe heredons Okay, so now we've got all four of these on the table Uh, Niko give your your general thoughts on the four of them Remarkably well balanced Overall they all have power. There's no does there's no like new new hermdar, which is just you know useless in the fire slope But for example, um, which is great to see Um, I think as we've Sort of touched on sort of emerald host sort of encourages the sort of hero hammer and sort of sniping and probably the most technical Johnny of them Sort of the grieving legion I could tell my little story maybe now Sort of I've had the distinct pleasure of playing as Benjamin sapper when he was using no retreat bone grins plus a rogue idol And it is when you have army wide no retreat is very easy for your own models to trap Um trap trap you essentially so basically charge one here. You have a little tail Uh, and place them all 2.9 inches away from another unit You barely fight and they pile in inefficiently towards you Uh, and then they find that they've actually blocked off themselves from Their actual hammers behind those outer screen units suddenly actually can't get out of the castle And suddenly you have to sort of pile in the back of your castle and sort of run around the back You know in in that game it was keepers of secrets versus That's the keepers of secrets behind demonettes and had I not deploying with an actual doorway That was just wide enough at the keeper, but not too wide to let the rogue idol come in I would have instantly lost turn one and they would have been game over It is a brutal sort of np experience. There's no retreat. Thankfully here. It is tied to 10 or more models Which is good Um quickly on the other two Uh, I think scarlet doom is the sort of most sort of leaning into the msu that the multi charging Um System is it's very flavor it's flavorful and it suits suits the the sort of whole msu driver of the of the book And then quick silver dead Uh, actually was the first one that jumped off the page of me, but that's probably because I just lost to to nerg on the top table So, um, yeah, no no words say is obviously is really relevant this meta. So Yeah, it's funny. I actually started negated the same thing I jumped immediately to the quick silver dead because I've been running heritans like I You know adaptive con and here I've been running heritans already I have 20 painted and I was like, oh, I love this because they do work already They're the highest damaging unit in the book Like per per pound heritans are with the frightful touch. Yes, like they're super efficient That said That said, um, I quickly migrated to emerald host when I began to think about thinking about my play style Um and my kind of my preferred structure of my army. I didn't want to spam heritans I actually wanted other units And so, uh, very quickly I migrated to emerald host and I have not looked back I love like imagine a world In a world Where the new mortis guy Did his job effectively which he does not Which he does not And instead of choosing one unit you choose a d3 plus one at the beginning of the game and that and that choosing can never be undone Yeah, sure. Yeah That's emerald host Just the fact that it's d3 plus one and not d3 is just such a game changer I mean that's going to be one of the best things we've started to see creep into version three from like the Derek damage profile of d3 plus three or d3 plus four to D3 plus ones in in this book just it's so much better having a avoiding the d6's and the pure d3's Yeah, and I think it's important to realize here if your opponent has a couple utility heroes All right This is actually a really good way to just put a clock on them And it combos really well with the aforementioned terminado Right because this causes them and fight whole spirit. Yeah. Yeah, but even if you can't get that dude in there Yes, that if you get that dude in there, you're in like flint. You've wiped their utility heroes clean, right? But this gives you a real chance going into turn two that you're just going to like be able to clean their clock of all their little utility Dufuses Straight out and like yes, they can they can use the heroic action to heal one guy But that's still beneficial if they if you force them into dictating that their heroic action heals a dude And that's the only thing it doesn't unbind your terminus, right? Right, right, right. That's what I'm saying. Yes, and yeah And Also, they're only stopping one of them. You're guaranteed two through four. So somebody's bleeding Right. Um, so yeah, absolutely And by the way, not all heroes not all utility heroes have such a bravery where they guaranteed heal At the same percentage chance that they are to take wounds here because it's two ups They have an 84 chance to take wounds. Many heroes do not have an 84 chance to heal based on their bravery Um, especially a little, you know, sort of pit a whacker utility heroes And cleaning those dudes out can be actually really important to this army's success Because this army needs to not be hit by somebody operating at maximum efficiency Like battlesmith Rune master like I can just like I can tech down through the fire slayer heroes And I'm like all of you guys. Yeah, sure the timing being just before a row recovery is is very interesting as well potentially really good timing Yeah It just kills them I saw a lot of people complain about the art that the scarlet doom is using a website there and all that Like folks, it's because they sent out requests for art and said paying a red ghost and that's what came back Like that's what it was and somebody picked that like that's It's there because it's red not because it's a herit And that's why it's there and the bottom one is there because it's silver And these guys are there because they're green. That's why like it's pretty It's pretty straightforward here when three out of the four of these have color names That's why they picked these so And the grieving one is mostly black Yeah, sure, but I mean like I I mean, I don't know if this is meant to be sort of a kind of Rendering of lady. Oh, I'm not sure if it is over top of the hex rates. Like are they writing out from under her skirt I don't know what that is But either way she's not emerald host. So, you know, right, which is the best, right? But it's just red ghost silver ghost green ghost. That's how it got arrayed. Okay So whatever it's fine Okay, love it Yeah, so all fair. Um, I will say I think that the You know, we're gonna come to blade guys revins later and we'll talk about them But I actually really enjoy What I'll say about scarlet doom is I don't think you have to lean all the way into them to make this ability still valuable The same is true of the herit one by the way. Yeah, I sure I Sorry, you go No, by all means, I would say yeah, like I would take like five units of 10 lego Revenants and then my actual hammer will be a combination of 20 Grimgasts with the two inch reach and the incarnate elemental of good As a monster choice Sure Absolutely and and the nice part about this is By the way, when we get to blade guys, I mean, they're quite effective for not that like they're Decent on their points to efficacy ratio, certainly And the fact that this also then swaps them over to battle. I mean, you're just filling that up for free by taking those msu units Right, so you are handing away You're handing away your That battle tactic for killing a A battle Yeah, but that's true in a lot of armies and and frankly I'm not sure that's not true in almost all the builds of this army Because you do have you you're going to have like such a swath of different battle line in some builds That you're like you're quite likely be like giving one up almost by necessity right Because you have lots of quite utilitous battle line here Although as as we know from anything with a five up would say you can easily bounce and like just leave on Two millions those infernal being a beast of no, you know on paper It should just go down, but sometimes you fire a whole 20 reavers at it to kill it or whatever Yeah, absolutely stupid beast of nergal I'm running them to all right uh Grand strategies and battle tactics This part of the show I hate Tom any thoughts on this? I'm not I'm not talking about this section. I refuse to talk about these things anymore I prefer they'll be removed from the books rest. It's fine like One stop no return for battle tactics is easy if you have a coach in your army. That's nice Do do grand strats first you got any strat thought there Nico? uh dismantle the brave maybe in like in a teams event where you can't duplicate You might take this one if you're going down this spirit host Tiro ham build so you keep your general life, but they are that's a good idea pretty awful like solve to claim Like if you kill the thing with Spells or impact hits is awful Sorry, you don't get it. Which is just awful The target, you know if you kill the target accidentally with something else other than a tax If you even can kill the target because it's like if you can yeah Yeah, uh feed on terra is like you better not go second in the final round. Otherwise they won't right So no they're particularly disappointing Yeah, they're most of them are things you will never play Which is fine. Like, you know, if something's going to be bad then let it be bad I also love the designers note on feed on terror that you cannot complete this grand strategy If all the units of your opponent's army have been destroyed If you're too good and you table your opponent you fail your grand strategy When they wrote that designer note That should have been a real like red flag To be like, hold on. Maybe we've got a problem here. Should we take this back and look at this? Is this correct? So when they win A lot you lose you lose this thing. Wait, why? Huh? Yeah, so At any rate, I'll get against some's a bad map where that could be a real possibility of everything dying. Oh, sure Yeah, uh All right. Yes, you mentioned battle tactics go Yeah, for me like, um Uh, maybe tides of tear Um, like if you know, you're going into a unit and you're not going to wipe it like a big body unit Like if you're going to go to go in with at least two units, then you should be fine Like there were many combats where like tides of tear was would have easily been accomplished by me So that's a free one. Um, if you have Sorry, good. No good But just to say very quickly, um the half an inch thing means it's good to go against like a monster or something Because otherwise they can take away a couple of models and something you're not within half an inch You're only got three inches Yep, um the uh You know mass panic, if you know, you're gonna be hitting a bunch of stuff and not killing it again Like, you know, like there's a number of these where like There's a they're good to have as an option. Let me say that sure The problem is what happens when you roll in and you're too effective and you accidentally kill the unit Or they or because you've shut off inspiring presence. They just bleed a battle shock on a bad roll. It's like, oh good I was too effective and yet again, I lose Right, right. Yeah. Um, and so most of this stuff. I just like I will probably never use Yeah So They're better than the slowness ones were um, not as not as good as the daughters ones, sadly Yeah Uh, please stop printing these. Okay, or or alternatively since they're never gonna do that I'm gonna I'm gonna rephrase it. Please print this the summer ghb battle pack to say you may not use these battle Like the only battle tactics that may be used in this battle pack are the ones included in this battle pack The game will be much better for it if we do that for this season. Yeah That would actually make the game better then when you're just doing cash games You want to use them all sure go nuts use your own battle tactics. Have a good time But in that like match to play battle pack, we're all playing which is the same Uh curated group of eight Not just allowing people to easily go five for five without a challenge Whereas other armies are struggling to get like two or three in yeah nonsense. Okay Cool scrolls It's scroll time It's Nagash he looks a lot like Nagash When the last time we saw Nagash And he does all the Nagashi things and he does all the Nagashi things. Uh, yeah, I mean Nagash hasn't really changed I'm since his last version when he got put into night haunt for the first time um He's still Nagash so Yep, uh, here's the important question with Nagash. I'm not reading through all his stats He we already did this forever ago. It's Nagash. He acts like Nagash So Do you ever do you have any lists where you take this guy? Because raptors exist for a stall Yeah, he's too squishy I'm I'm gonna just say that. Yep. Um, he's too squishy for 955 points. Yep. Um He that four up here. Here's the reality that four up to mortals needs to just be a four afford And I know that's super contentious But I I think it's true like for 955 points He has a lot of points. He's so much and I just or his weird stat needs to go way up It should do because he's something Yeah, yeah, because he's just not he's not survivable enough for what he does And like I and he lost to the main draw he had in night haunt Was with reaping size to make his uh to make alkanash Reliable His big d6 attack nigg three rend. Yep Make move it to rerollable hits and wounds and because that left with that spell lore I'm never putting this guy on the table. It's not No, I agree. He's a skip. He's a skip. He just doesn't actually earn his points if he came down to the other god points Uh 600 and some well, yeah up for 600 to lower 700. That's where all the gods are arrayed, right? um Like we could have the argument of what's the appropriate level in there um Then then I think maybe he could he could show up in some conversations or some lists, but right now. He's just literally half your list Yeah, I might consider him at like 700 I might consider at 700 mark. I would never consider him in night haunt right now He sits on my shelf with glaive wraith stalkers Surrounded by them Sure. Um, yes pinfoldorf. Uh, well Okay Technically the answer is no. Nagash is not the most expensive unit in the game But actually yes, he is Because the other stuff is like weird forge world. It's stupid. Is the stupid forge world of corn dragon. Yes, that doesn't count Correct Oh, I want to I want to multi charge that dragon. Sure. Yeah, just watch that guy explode I didn't put his points here because that's how little I thought of him Okay, cool. Let's get into the actual scrolls now instead of this instead of this poser who's showing up in this ghost book You're not a ghost. Get out of your ghost. Get out of your not ghost. All right. Now. Let's get to the actual ghosts Lady, oh Lady, oh clock in at 340 points Uh, several things changed about her Um, most importantly, I mean like I I don't want to go through all the changes, but she's can She can't do some ground setting real quick before we cover her Okay, so so here's some ground setting your standard movement for all ghosts is eight inches across the arm Okay, uh, your your your standard wounds range is from five wounds on the low heroes To seven wounds on the high on your powerful heroes. That's it. There's no one higher So like that that's the fluctuation that you're always going to see the standard is four up save on all of your heroes Yep, okay, and the attack profile on all of them Is almost universally threes and threes neg one or neg two rend two damage Yep, okay, and it's going to range between three attacks and five attacks a term So when you think about any hero You need to look like think about it in relation to how it rates with all the rest of the heroes who have almost Identical profile. Yeah. No, that's great. That is some really great level setting. You're absolutely right So eight inch move unless they're on a pony or a thing that makes them go quicker Five to seven wounds four up base save Obviously, they're all base ethereal. So they all have a six up ward Some people do have other ward saves on top, which we'll talk about in just a second And then you're exactly right. They got the storm cast treatment profile effectively where you know almost universally It's three to five attacks three threes neg one or neg two two damage Okay. Yep, cool. Yep And remember as always in this army any six to hit wounds automatically. So we'll shortcut the the The wound roll the wound roll. So one in six attacks auto wounds effectively Okay, cool Um, lady. I was a war master. She's double cast or double on binder She got a little she got a little girl. No, no bonuses to cast. No bonuses to cast She does not she does have a four up ward now Uh, which is you know good real good Like a built-in four up ward is real good Um, so she's you know almost Almost universally four up four up There are of course counters to everything in the world, but she's almost universally just four up four up Um She can her new ability to to restore things is like a lot sort of stronger than its old version Where once per game she can just return d6 lane models to every summable unit on the battlefield Um, which is sometimes challenging to use properly if you're running hard msu If you have a lot of very small units that are going to tend to get wiped out You don't always have the chance to capitalize on this. So I think there is some some tension there Uh, her more torque of grief ability is quite interesting Where you roll dice each time an enemy unit issues a command within 12 inches of her on a five plus that command is not received It still counts as having been used and the command point that was spent to issue the command is lost It's a very frightening ability if she's floating around in the mix Just because a third of the command shutting off when when you've already got an army that's shutting off like inspiring presence on the reg is is It's just a scary thing to be able to waste that stuff, right? Um She her new sort of shooting quasi attack And how it works now instead of the old thing that she had where she did two different sort of mortal wound pulses around her Is just now lifting the veil just like at the starting a shooting phase you pick an enemy unit within 12 You roll the die and that's the number of mortal wounds it suffers and if you do it's d3 Which is basically how her old ability works to a point Um, she just had a different thing as well And then she still has grief stricken which is just Plus one plus one one one for an enemy to hit and plus one for you to hit Still cast on a seven with no bonuses. Sure. Sure. I understand Yeah, all right. It's uh, yeah, and she's in grieving legion. Now. Here's what I'll say about lady I know you're not super hot on her tom. I don't Nico. I don't think you are either Uh, I watched her on the table and I gotta say I really liked her Um, just because her presence as a four up four up Like she's and with a with a built-in self-heal shooting attack and like obviously having access to other potential healing capabilities, right? um Just made her like unreasonably durable She could just kind of float around with impunity as long as she wasn't getting slammed By a by a true hammer You know, like if a true melee hammer comes into it, it'll lift her of course, right? If if there's a sentinel unit on the table, she's lifted Uh, I watched a bunch of sentinels shoot into her twice and fail to lift her I watched a big sentinel unit do it Did they get lamb and lamb at light off first? No, they didn't have lamb on her No, they didn't every roll will hit on her But I mean that was over two shooting phases and she ended up being at full wounds Yeah, by the time she was where she wanted to be because she would just like Heroic action heal and then shoot something and heal Right and it's like she's back to full Okay, cool, and then keep floating along I I just think I mean Sure There is some mortal wounds things in the game like sentinels That are still scary to her But even they aren't guaranteed to lift her And like if they don't if they put that unit into her and fail to lift her that is such a win for you Yeah, because she pops back up like she'll back up but go back up to full like you just wasted that entire unit's turn Doing nothing Yeah, right you you can always put her off the save the reserve if you're really worried about raptors or 30 cells Yeah, but it's true. She can be one of the three units you pick up. Yeah, but but then you lose your two spells Yeah Sure But I mean Coming on to the spells even I just feel she's she's just too many random elements The you know the unbuff casting unbinding you're you're basically overpaying for that I think and then you got two abilities that both key off effectively d6 roles or maybe d6 plus one If those were like d3 plus 3 or d3 even d3 plus 2 I'd be a lot happier um As for the the more talk of grief is like it's she's going to be almost a god tier level you know more talk level character in the game but like You know you don't just be outside of the aura issue it to a unit within the within the aura and they're unaffected And there are you know similar abilities overpowering stench and even the new crown of woe for the dock That work off issue. Sorry work off receive receiving And so you can't just sidestep them You know occasionally good like the glockin will try and do his thing and the five up his roll, but it's just It doesn't live up to that more talk level power And just it's the 340, you know, it's more than the sea who's like, you know He's got a very defined role of being a new becaster that short of techless He's he's really up there Or or a certain prime is more than more than he is and he again has that very defined role that Reliable hammer charge at reserve She feels almost a bit like gob sprak in that it's a lot so I could big grab bag of abilities, but No one ability is like this is it Um, I I would say that if you build around it If you do that hero hammer bill where you've got at least two units that's free spirit host Maybe you could get crazy and have a big nine even and just you know offload eight wounds onto one unit eight you boons off the other unit And keep her alive and like tie things up and you've got the other heroes and they're all they're all sort of bouncing Just with bodyguards that there may be a build there But I worry that you know what happens if you fail the charge in the bodyguard unit after the heroes have gone in Or vice versa, you know, they've got to be next to each other. Otherwise it for falls apart. Yep. Yeah Yeah to me it's a price tag like she She went from two ten or two fifteen to three forty and functionally the only thing that changed was um Her four plus four she went from a six four to a four plus she has some better restore now table wide, but sure I understand sure like well that's no before that was all units got one back one model every every hero phase I understand To now once per game one d six models Which you prefer than you the old one. Sorry. Yeah, I think I'd rather have the old one Grace and you know like to consistently put back bodyguards You know like imagine being able to put back like two spirit host units put back one set of three wounds every hero phase I like the ability to spike it is my own answer since you're not just rolling out a dive for every unit This does allow you to spike it, but I totally get what you're saying Yeah, and so like I just she's so expensive for what she does and Like when I look at her this is the decision that I have to make sure Do I take her Or I do I take ripe nor In either guardian of souls or a crucial. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's fair. It's fair I I get the same number of spells. I get a more reliable spell. I get better melee attacks I get better buffs like And in general doesn't actually do anything here, which is a fascinating consequence like Oftentimes like before having another general was a big deal Because you can use the command ability that let you like rip units to your whatever Her being a general does nothing other than increase range from 12 to 18 inches for issue and commander Zero else and so I just I don't think she's a bad choice But I'm still but I am empathetic to all of what you're saying that like she may not be the best choice I am just saying I think she's not bad, but you're you're probably not wrong about the points It feels like she could come down a little bit Yeah, because I mean again like Right door is the exact same profile as her Seven wounds like he's uh, he's like seven wounds. He actually oh We'll get on to him in a minute because right now he's in my top picks like we're we're gonna do the We're gonna do the hero draft once we get through. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. Let's go ahead Okay. Yeah, I want to keep moving. All right Uh, now we move on to Maybe one of my least favorite guys. I'm glad you're building them though Uh, curdos you're out of your you're out of your mind. Wow. This dude is the king now This guy is the king. I'm ready. Yeah Yeah, I'm that unfairly keen All right, we're I love how we're the opposite on on these first two. It's great So curdos as you mentioned like we he has this sort of standard hero profile at the top end So seven wounds now the nice part about him is he's big rend and big damage So he has neg three rend and three damage like he does he's he's a hard hitter Yeah, um, and then he has this at the start of the battle round. He can uh, Effectively steal a command point. I understand he can if I'm explaining it on a five up He effectively steals a command point from your opponent Okay. Yeah, cool. All right. So and curdos is 210 He's also in grieving Legion out that it matters Uh, yeah, so same profile as olander on wounds and the movement and all that stuff Yeah, yeah, but he hits a lot harder way better way better attacker Yeah, uh 100 210 points cheaper. You could include him and a spirit host bodyguard unit To ward saves him on a three plus True for the cost of for less than the cost of elander. I understand I mean, that's just my problem with him is so I have the opposite problem to what nico just highlighted with curdos Okay, nico's a sort of method of attack Was I didn't call him turdos, but that is now his name. I'm calling him turdos. There we go. Okay, boom Thank you, bill robertson. That was not what I said, but I am I am okay with that and we'll now say that Here's my issue with him Is ladio the attack ends ladio where she has this big grab bag of stuff and you're not sure if it's ever going to be useful I like crap like that because I'm like some of this will be useful sometimes Right and like she's a double cast. Yeah, she has no bonuses, but that's okay I like two more casts and two more unbinds Right, like, you know, sometimes you just need to cast spells. It's good stuff, right? She can restore models. She can do these different things. She has mortal wounds shooting, which is very very valuable Right. I mean, yes, it is this role, but still just a two up you take d6 mortals, which is effectively what her rule is, right? Yeah, um, I didn't bad. I mean I run stupid cockatrices in my, you know, army that's on a four plus. That's a lot cheaper But my point still stands. It's a powerful ability Um This dude is just mr. Melee now. He hits like a truck Okay, I don't disagree But I'm not sure he's gonna with that melee profile be able to earn his place. That's just it Like I want more toolbox stuff. I don't need just this dude. We got other ways to do damage That's my I think where he does come in is that because he's got such a small base If you're trying to do the thing where you're where you're multi-charging a American organ or a, you know, dragons with five units And you're just putting in like one or two blade guys for evidence, you know Actually connecting the charge and there's a tail back and they're all trying to, you know Not use up that surface area between them and share and not block each other off The fact that kerlos is such a tiny base With that much, uh, hammer power, uh, is Is quite tempting, but yeah, he is he's pretty mono dimensional and he's got that sort of extra bonus rule He's what I call anti crag notes Sure Say what you could be minus five rend effectively He could easily be we live in a world where he will easily be minus five Yeah And so you're gonna come in And almost one round crag notes with just kurdos Because i'm not gonna charge with him I'm gonna charge with four other heroes and all of them are going to be on twos and twos every single one of them Because of the aoe buffs that knight haunt can spit out Between the guardian souls and the the thing. I have a 12 inch bubble all everybody's going to be on twos and twos Increased rend by two and he's just going to lift crags He's going to put 15 wins on Without without even batting an eye Without on neg five rend and so like he is your answer to anything that is a super safe thing Sure Yeah, I mean, okay And so Like I like i'll pay 210 for that That's a really good deal. And you know what? And this is my favorite part about it. He's not the only one Like it like in the build that i'm looking at like i'm playing hero hammer And i'm gonna go for all the hero like all of it I didn't state it but we we should just state it here that like I think most lists are going to contain four to six heroes easy easy all day And i'm going to go in with most of them and they're going to hit harder than most units in the game Between the the handful of foot heroes. They just are he has a lot of power per square inch. You're not wrong Yes, yeah, and so and he's a small base. I mean like this is his base He's on what of uh 50 60 Uh, it is a i'll tell you exactly. It's a 60 mil. Okay. Yeah, like that's exactly what it is. Um, and so like For 210 And then he's also like again Sometimes playing in the action point game Like I don't really care about any of that because i'm going to put him shoulder to shoulder with a number of other melee heroes And you're going to have to choose who to remove And And they're going to be body guarded by spirit host Yeah, i'm i'm sus. That's my problem. That's why that's why but but hey I've been wrong before I could be wrong here I like that at least we're having goodness that both that there's I like that like there's arguments on both sides for all of these Which I think is good Yeah, and so like I think he's reasonable value, but he's not one of the auto take heroes that will probably come on to That's fair. Uh, I have not built a list without him Wow He's often yeah, he's often in mine too, but okay Because again because of the page Because of the bubbles I like my heroes are perpetually on twos and twos I understand. All right, and so I want to make sure we cover that we got a lot of heroes to get These guys got a lot of heroes. Okay. Let's come to my dog here Uh, but I am very excited about this dude. I this guy I'm in for Okay So all rack the drowner our new boatman Uh, I like this guy a lot He dropped out of my list by the way. Yeah, that's that's fine. I don't think he's an auto take, but I like him a lot Um, he's he has shown up like in several of the sort of lists that I was playing around with and just building out for fun um So he's slightly faster than our other people at a 10 inch move Um, his attack profile is like fine It's fine He has this still the random damage thing as opposed to just being two, which is what we would actually just all prefer But sure because he's got a big or it's got to be a d3. Sure. Why not? I like the three against sloppity bar fiber. Sure screw that guy. Yeah But he's 175 points, which I love He has a totem built in so he does have a long issue range, which is nice. Just a small side benefit, but it's there Um, and he has a command ability called passage through the underworlds You can use this command ability at the start of your movement phase. This gets to what you were talking about earlier If you do so pick one friendly night hunt unit on the battlefield that is visible to this unit That unit must receive the command first remove this unit from the battlefield and set it up again On the battlefield more than nine inches from all enemy units then remove that friendly night hunt unit from the battlefield And set it up again. Holy within 12 of this unit and more than nine from all enemy units. This counts as their move for that phase Um, fantastic. What a like he can because he's also a totem. He can grab people from relatively far away He can set them up relatively far from him Like it's a lot of different mobility happening between his move and their move between what's going on here Genical to the old uh It is identical rules wise truly identical to the old um Dreadblade hero trick that like moving your hero and then teleporting another unit as a general to him Like it is simply doing exactly what that trick was that was a combination of a unit and a Ability they combined that effect into a single new model and that's what they gave them Yeah, yeah, he's kind of like a variant on kurdos. He's still pretty pretty good hammer But he's also got that utility of the command of it. That's the only warscore command ability in the book And they're very rare these days and that does open up a potential combo where you actually make him the general You sacrifice the command straight and then you can do you know double teleport so He all right will teleport and with another year and then the harrow will also teleport from somewhere else with another unit So you can potentially redeploy the whole you know a huge chunk of the army to it on the flank which has potential Yeah, that's the kind of stuff I dig like exactly that's exactly where I was going to go Like I love when you can just be like my whole army is over here now. You know how I think tom, right? You know, I love the I do the wax. He plays ko Yeah, I do Exactly like this is uh, but I should say he also has like a little impact hit thing that can do some mortal wounds And we'll buff up his attacks and stuff like that. So he can do decent damage I don't want I like him as a hammer. I do Like like as like So like the way I would use him is I would use him shoulder to shoulder with kurtos In the hero bubble, right come in and hit things and then late game when I need to go steal an objective I'm going to you rip him and a unit across the table and take your objective Sure or potentially well and again because of because as you mentioned it's as per that old ability But because there's range you can potentially threaten two objectives depending on how the enemy is arrayed Right because it's not like you're setting them up Exceedingly tight to each other like you could easily have him Threatening one objective and the unit he drops threatening another Yeah, so yeah, yeah Okay, yeah, I dig him. I think he's cool. I think he's a great addition to the line Um, I kind of wish this had been the dude that broke the wounds cap Um, if I had anything to say about it, I just wish he had been eight wounds because he's got a boat I wish he got a bonus wound for the boat He does he did get a boat So, uh, he's uh, he's but the you think of him like that. He's a scripter mortis for the boat Yes, he's like night on which is six wounds the bumps into seven He's a night of shrouds. It's five wounds base, but when he gets a horsey it goes towards he goes to six So this guy is just a scripter mortis at six it gets a boat that goes to seven. Yeah Okay Let's keep moving Reich nor the grim Hayler hauler grim guy He's my boy. He's a grim boy. I mean, okay. This dude's amazing Right. I first of all, do any of us not feel amazing still amazing. Yes. I think he's good But I wouldn't go I wouldn't say he's not in every list, you know, the plus three to cast is absolute money But it is on one spell You know, he's solid stat wise solid potential assassin, which is which is nice His only spell is is decent We have an 18 inch range. I'd love it a bit more But yeah, if you if you bill for him, he has a lot of potential and reliability. She's nice Yeah, I like Reich nor a lot. I the main thing I like about him is yeah, he's he's again a tacky he's got kind of the the Toppish end-ish profile of offensive damage like this guy. I'm all about he does enough damage to keep me interested He's very fast Which he's an independent operator like he's a wonderful independent operator because he can generate his own hit and wound if he chooses the right targets Yeah, right. So he doesn't need to be in the bubble and what's fascinating people turn around arcane tomes. That's all I'm saying Right and I think I think you keyed on it on one of my favorite aspects of it Which is his movement is 14. Yeah Which it doesn't look like that's a big deal until you remember that he has retreat in charge Yep That means that when he gets stuck in your objectives are no longer safe Because he's going he can retreat over the top of you. So easy the difference Yeah, no go go go go off the casting metamorphosis first Right as a monster to then jump jump up to five wounds. They're just count as five models Yeah, yeah Yeah, I mean I really dig this dude and I will say tom the difference between moving eight for retreating over units and moving 14 for retreating over units and again, you know, you mentioned the base size on uh Kerdas on kerdas, okay, and This dude is also not on a very big base at all. Like he's like he's on a smaller base. Yes. He's on a cap base And so like I think he packs a lot of potential in that in that space and again at 190 I'm a buyer. I think he's a perfectly good deal Like he does everything. I like he's the right price. I love his cast ability The fact that he can juice himself so hard and get the spell out there that when you need it out there That he can sit back and get something out or get up there and still be relatively Convincing the fact that he still hits hard enough and can and can pick targets and be a good assassin The fact that he can retreat over the top. I love everything about right nor I mean he like he if you are if you include um Terminexus he has to be in your list in my mind like you can't not He's the one that's going to push out terminexus. You know what you also can't like discount Is his candle ability? They changed it so it's weaker now like before you could target units so you could shoot out wizards from units Sure, which I didn't do against my luminous. That was one of my misplays is I should have been killing all of his wizards Um with with right nor and I wasn't like I should have worked but yeah Say what I don't think that actually works because of the new rules in versions three Like well, it says that you can use you originally it's like a model for yeah Yeah, a certain model Yeah, um But now so it's weaker than that, but it's still auto mortal wounds with no Anything you're just like, uh, that guy take a wound. Yeah, you yeah, and it's 12 inches, which is a huge bubble There were so many times where like he's on the other side of a terrain piece and I'm just like That guy takes a mortal and he's like what and it's a 12 inch ball, you know It's in any model within 12 inches And they're you know And so like he would often like put that last wound on something and just pull it off the table But guaranteeing a battle tactic and be really nice if they just On one when you left right or stick a pinball on it as well. Yeah, think about it like this That candle is a free arcane ball Yeah Yep, that's what it does every turn every hero phase. Um, and so I just I love this guy so much and now you can bodyguard him with spirit hosts like I feel like keener and keener I have to say Yeah, um and so and he's also a huge like he's my favorite recipient because he's going to be in the mix And so obviously I love him with race storm, right? Because This is a really effective spell like way more effective than you'd think because like I shot a unit of light kings with this race storm false He he was only the the model was down to one wound on a on a black king And so I got to drop two d3 wounds on him because the first d3 killed a model Then I got to roll another d3 to do an additional d3 mortals And so like first sorry Yeah, go ahead do the candle mortal first as well. Yep. Yep. And so it's just a really interesting set of um Like his spell is punchy for a damage spell, right and um and I often put the strike's last spell on him Because it's a wonderful utility spell for him. He's going to be in the mix anyways And like there's one like my win against giants what I did was um I went in with all my big stuff on the top giant And then I had him drop um strikes last on the other giant and went in with all of my heroes Um and my hero's inheritance and ended up lifting both giants in a turn Because there was just enough damage between like I fought here first and then With all my like a 30 block and then the heritans and all the heroes lifted the other giant because he because I got to Fight with everything before he went in and so when you're if you're doing msu that you don't underestimate that strikes last Like it's so so so important because Being able to pick your fights is such a big deal and this guy's going to be in the mix and he's the wizard to cast that Yeah, because he can actually power the spell through close up. Yeah Even if you do 10 charges, you might not get one of those 10 ups and You don't have to fight last and that is the weak spot of msu. They will pick up a couple of units after you attack first Yep Yeah, so redundancy is a is a big deal and this guy brings it for those always strikes last Yeah, no, I'm I'm with it. Okay. I hope we've sold everybody on reichnor Also, by the way, just as a side note this here is like a truly amazing model Can we just also say that I mean like I know that's not what we're evaluating But like seriously, this dude's a boss. It's a great looking model Okay, yes From the from the high heights to the low lows The hard pass you're going to stop. We're not even we're not even looking at this worst world. Just keep moving Do you know why this worst role is so bad? Like or do you know what? Let me say it this way. You know, it's so I love that you can't stop yourself go Say what I love that you can't stop yourself because I was gonna skip it You started that you look at it go Sorry He doesn't actually follow the rules He's your only he has a bad attack too. Yeah, he's the only hero out of all of them That has a bad attack profile. That's because he's attacking you with a pen But he's like it's just so bad Okay, we can move on. I'm just saying tom by the standards of attacking someone with a pen. This dude is jason born Okay, he's blessed with low tan though I don't know many people who have that kind of a profile on a pen So anyways, that's something Okay. All right. I hate this guy. So I know. Yes. Uh, he's bad. Don't use him. There we go. Skip next. Okay, cool It's fine. There are like six other units at 150. He's so far down the list. Yeah, absolutely All right night of shrouds on the night of shrouds on steed. We'll just talk about them together because they're effectively the same guy Just one has a pony Um Five wounds and six wounds and then obviously the move because of the pony being the the key difference here Um, they both have the the same sort of stolen hours and the previously mentioned thing that we talked about during the combo the wombo combo with the Uh command trait is at the end of the combat phase if any enemy models were slain by attacks made with this unit's Sort of stolen hours in that phase You can heal one wound allocated this unit and can add one to the wound's characteristic of this unit as you mentioned Fantastic combo with the With the command trait. Yes With spiteful spirit because he just can continue as long as you can keep getting him in the right fights Which he again 12 inch move isn't 14, but it's still pretty good Uh, he can hopefully be choosing his fights pretty darn well Um Then he has other rules that don't actually matter too much, but they're fine. They're not bad. They're just okay Uh, and that's the lord of geists where once for battle this unit can issue the all out attack command To around someone around per bout around. Yes. Thank you. Once we're about around. Yep Without a command point being spent The other guy on foot by the way can do redeploy or unleash hell So that's that is so this is the one you want uh for knight hunt in general and uh The the horsey guy and for me like he fights with the unit. So it's helpful to have him near He's your chain activate with your green gas green gas Yeah, which is nice. It's nice to have that as an option Um, he has the best attack profile you can basically have outside of being a named hero Which is five attacks on the threes and threes neg one two Yeah, the the storm cast lord profile. That's what it is. Yeah Yeah ended 155 points. He's he's good like it's good value Good move good capabilities good combo potential Yeah, I mean it's a good dude nico anything we missed on the knights Yeah, I think they just they just got slightly edged out by some of the other heroes on on utility That they're fine and they work what in that sort of hero hammer combination that we talked about But uh, a few others that just slightly prefer Yeah, totally fair okay Cruel gas cruciator. Oh boy. Oh boy. This guy changed a lot and did he get this is where we begin the uh Stealing of another army's allegiance abilities and handing it to in a controlled way to one of your heroes So do you like thought do you like coalesced? I mean I do So let's just give that into a in a bubble to a hero. You're going to see this Kind of thing repeatedly. So the cruciator six wounds other than that. He's basically the sort of standard profile Um And His ability I mean the reason so now we get into the part where it's like everybody's got an ability Let's do is the ability worth taking them, right? That's what it comes down to. Yes, right, right? And so because it's just this one ability heroes So the mr. Cruel gas, he has uh, if this unit is within 12 inches of any terrified units So just having a knight haunt within three inches of a unit makes it terrified Subtract one from the damage inflicted to a minimum of one by each successful attack that targets a friendly knight haunt unit Holy within 12 of this unit Whoa, that's real good now. You got obviously that's a bubble to maintain but Coalesced is good. You just got a you but you do need to be thinking about there's an interesting rule check up here Sure hit it. There's a there's an interesting rule check up here because He is checking for a terrified enemy unit within 12. Yes. Yes If if that is true Yep, if that condition is true all other units No matter what the situation is, right? Yeah reduce damage by one. Yes So what that actually ends up doing is you get a 24 inch bubble if one One enemy unit is within 12 of him. That's terrified. You get a 24 inch bubble across Where all units within that bubble reduce damage by one. Yep That's pretty good. It's good with no retreat Yeah I mean, it's good. Also. I I it is I agree. It's good with no retreat I also think it's good by the way with tom's sort of hero hammer type of build Yep, right because it's very easy to keep all of those heroes within that bubble range No problem Unlike maybe sometimes a big unit might you might sometimes have some challenges with some piling in or whatever But like all of those heroes suddenly become hard as a coffin nail Yeah, right and right now as it's currently worded if you have multiple of these guys it's Um, and so like if you have two Then like that mall crush is thrown around one damage attacks Oh, yeah, because uh There's no reason it doesn't stack right now Right, right. Yeah, I say right now obviously because one ball stings if If that if that survives the FAQ or if your event happens before the FAQ drops Sure Like a co will I love this guy at 150 points. I just think he's such a powerful tool He's such a powerful defensive tool when used well I just think he could like this is a uh a fulcrum you can lever a game on like a game went on Yeah, right here. He's first in every test I think Yeah And let me just say Do not sleep Sorry brother Do not sleep on four neg two rend attacks. Yeah, sure sure his range attack. Yeah Yeah, because they're on threes and threes So I regularly like would choose a unit to shoot out Or to like kill like uh the battle line unit like uh, and they might have like five wardens left, right? Well, that might be you know, like he's gonna play on burning a bunch of pennies or defenses or stuff like that in the combat phase Yeah to preserve those wounds But suddenly when you're doing wounds in the shooting phase A couple of splash wounds here and there and then you combine that with like right nor shooting out some mortals here and there Suddenly like you're going to snipe out units and thin stuff out way quicker than most people anticipate Like these how are these as well Yeah, it's like I love love love love his shooting attack Yeah, I'm sad that I don't get re-roll hits and wounds like I used to Do Because I gave him the arcane tone which gave me yeah sure sure of course I mean I'm glad most re-roll hits and wounds is gone from the game. I'd like to see it all completely disposed of sure at any rate Yeah, so I think this guy's a take from all of us, right? Like he's he's a top pick He's he's an entire draft pick at least one Unless the message goes to like all damage one, right? Yeah, sure. Sure exactly right now. We're dealing with And then he's an easy cut Like it's funny because if that happens, he's an easy cut and there's a ton of other things. I'm going to put it instead of that right Yeah, let's go from one strength to strength here Uh the dread blade hero. I very much like this guy as well He's at the five wound so the lower end, but he is faster because he's got his little spectral podium as well So 12 inches His attack profile is in the middling range, but obviously you're not taking that guy for this For that reason, I mean he's he's okay. It's not like he's bad or anything But that's not the reason you select this dude at the end of your movement phase You can remove this unit from the battlefield and set it up again on the battlefield more than one inches from all terrain features and objectives and more than nine inches from all enemy units Uh, and then once per battle round if your general issues a command This unit can issue the same command in the same phase without a command point being spent If it does so that command must be received by a friendly night hot unit. It's only once per battle round, but man. Oh man Do I love that ability? Doubling up being able to break every rule simultaneously Where I get to like double a command ignore the fact that I can use the same one twice Uh not spend a command point to do it Different place Yeah, exactly in a completely different area of the battlefield No care about range. He's over here the unit's over there Let's party. I love this for so many stupid reasons by the way I say that because I actually think the real power of this is just like Okay, I'm gonna throw out a situation the two of you How many times have you been in a situation in a os 3.0 where you really wish you could have made two units run six Oh, yeah I mean more so with armies of the barge, but like if my deep can it could run It could go six and then charge Yeah, like how often is the case where you're just like man I really need these two units to be in this one place to threaten subject Uh, the support hero coming up behind the all front line. Yeah, you want to keep with it Or or reroll charges being able to reroll two charges I mean I take my triumph universally. I almost I almost universally build lists light And take my triumph as the reroll charge triumph because I think it's actually the important one Especially with this army with wave of terror So like yes, absolutely like that's just that's just stacks on stacks Yeah, because of the importance of landing your charges and wave of terror So Like and you know, sure could he just double up on A lot of attack or just corporate whatever Discorporate is I mean it depends on what you're doing if you've got somebody fighting last And you really your situation right with the giant like you really got to bring him down And you know, he's stuck fighting last like hey, maybe we're not going to go Let's double up on the aoe and just really try to smash this thing in No, you're just going to move your chain gas near so that everybody gets the plus one to hit without ever having to use aoe Sure, sure fair enough. I mean like like I don't think I don't think people understand just how Command point efficient this army is with those chain down. Yeah. Yeah chain gas a real because you're Because you're not doing and we'll talk to change of gas here You're you're almost never using you're like you don't use all-out defense, right? And you're almost never using all-out assault. You're almost never using unleashed out for the army Yeah, like it's like the It's like the turtle. It's like that has a you know, holy within 15 Plus one to hit and possible to save or that just saves you a lot of all-out attacks and a lot of right All-out defenses It absolutely does your chain gas aren't going to be everywhere and they're always going to be alive Is what I'll say but sure Um, but the point is yes discorporates another great one. You're not wrong That one feels like the most obvious one like look I don't think it's groundbreaking here to say doubling up on commands without spending additional command points. It's super good in a O.S. You know Yeah, it's borrowing from the cabbage nice I mean What I don't I don't like if that if you don't understand why that is so stupidly good Right, I just like then you haven't played a game of a os 3.0. That would be my statement Right and again at 1 to 45. I'm completely willing to pay that for what I'm getting out of this dude For hippity hoppity command point doubly perfectly competent in melee Got him. Yep. You can you could see yourself running too Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Yep All right, so he's we're definitely a buyer on him. Okay, let's keep by the way if you want to be super cheaty You could run him with Nagash And have nothing gosh general for you sure So then would he issue the word save twice? Yeah and get plus three well in but plus three to three different units And so you could what you could actually then do with that is um You could like cast the seal of shyish to go down to like a five and then he bumps it down to a four And then two others are going to be at five ups like it's just It's really good. Yep. He's super good All right, the lord executioner, uh An absolutely gorgeous fig that i'm sad to i was sad to never see on the table. Maybe that will sometimes change here Uh, so he's five wounds, but he's got a good attack profile. Um, so he is now to ren too So again very with five attacks strong attack profile on the non-named uh hero category His special thing is That at the start of the combat phase you can pick one enemy unit within three inches of this unit not just yours the Yeah, good. Yeah And then subtract one from wound rolls for attacks made by that unit until the end of that phase Quite a good debuff neg one to wound is always good As mentioned there is an artifact that can do this as well Although I would argue that having more instances of the potential to pass out neg one to wound around the army Is not exactly ever bad. Um, this dude also packs his own built-in five up ward Which, you know, also isn't a bad thing Uh, and so You know, I like this guy at at 140. I like this guy. I don't think again He's get my rating of him would be he doesn't make every lists Uh, not even close, but I could certainly see him in some lists He's got extremely utilitous debuff that works off turn So you don't have to rely on your charge abilities only it synergizes very well with all your charge debuffs Uh, and you know, he's relatively punchy for what he does for his points Again, you talk about like power per square inch like this guy is on a truly tiny base For for how hard he hits he's on a 32. I believe no, he's on a 40. He's on a 40. I think yeah, because he's got his floaty tentacles and That thing Yeah Yep, yeah Nico what you take on the lord executioner Yeah, I'd say solid as you say it's a really good debuff The problem is he's just competing with the two we just talked about and he's like five points or 10 points cheaper So it's just a little bit edged out sometimes. But yeah, if you're going down the hero hammer Yeah, yeah, it's a lot Yep, I think he can be an like if you're in the hero hammer, we're like, well, I'm gonna take six of these I'm taking six heroes. I think you would I'm taking six meters Yeah, he would often in some lists be my be a choice in there very easily Very easily Okay Cool good stuff. So another solid pick uh the guardian of souls tom take us through the guardian of souls Man, this dude has been a staple in my lists Since forever right and I actually like that was the innovation going into adepticon as I started running two of this guy and basically He's as good as he's always been Okay, he uh He has a standard hero profile on five wounds and he's on the low end of the attack profile But again, it's still three attacks dishing two damage a pop And so like he has the wizard storm cast profile He has the wizard storm cast profile like and again So his big thing is he's gonna pass off. He's gonna do two things and I think he does both of them really well One is he gives out a plus one to wound bubble for melee weapons for knight haunt units holy within 12 and Which like that for like Chain rafts. That's not a big deal because before like I was using it with chain rafts and moving them from fours You know giving them re-roll once because their ability changed to be plus to wound because um What are the other guys because uh heritans are plus one to wound like they're often going to be plus one doing on their own Like hit that plus one to wound is actually very limited on the units. It's going to apply to So most of the time you're only going to use that with either grim gassed reapers Or all of your heroes. Yeah a bunch of heroes. I think that that's where it shines Is that he sits in the middle of your hero pack and he's like let's go Right with and giving moving everybody to choose to wound Yeah, which is kind of a big deal. And then the other thing obviously spectral lure um One thing that you'll notice in this book for anybody that was familiar with knight haunt is that a bunch of the model restore abilities have all evaporated Like we used to have a good like we used to have one on the black coach, which is the d3 Models that's gone. We used to have one as a command trait. That's that was a d3 models. That's gone Um, there's only really two that have survived one is the spirit torment and the other is the spell off guardian of souls Um, it it restores a d6 wounds worth of models So it's not a d6 Like models as as a lot of those other abilities were but you also don't have a lot that's doing this anymore Okay, that's restoring models his spell does Um, and what's fascinating is it's a 24 inch range. Yep And so he doesn't have to be humping that unit to put those models back in that unit. It's a crazy range on that spell That's right wild That's right, and I mean that's what it is now Like and I was running two of these guys and before like they on cast they would restore two d6 rasts instead of a d6 So like it was really good But even a d6 is great. It really is and again because not a lot is doing this Um, I rate him really high nico. I know you don't rate him a thigh, right? They've been like nudging up the costs of like monocaster wizards You know consistently through version three and this guy is kind of the tycaster price point and the tycaster buff is incredible Plus one of we you know is also very good. It has to be said, but You know his spell I would take him if I'm taking that tome artifact for the guaranteed life form That is solid. You can squeeze that in. It's great Other than that, I think the problem is compared to the spirit torment So he's if he gets his cast off and it just six is not bad, but d6 models back in every other turn No hardly turns in the spirit torment. It does one thing it does it brilliantly Which is bring back three models every end of combat phase Guaranteed it could have been range, but other other than that guaranteed And a really nice timing because potentially it can add the models You know and then they can score immediately Um, I just prefer that for the reliability. I found with the soul renders for for um And nomati are excellent at doing d3 plus three and the spirit torment is like a cheaper version of that I think he's like nine. No, he's 150, but he is cheaper and just it's guaranteed and there's both turns So it's like six over about round versus d6 But yeah, as I say if you if you get the life storm guaranteed and the plus one of wound is a nice nice convoy Yeah, I think I think I come down in between the middle of the two of you Is why is my take like I like this dude But I think he leans tom more into your hero Hammer type of of build absolutely. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, and I think that's where he performs best Yeah, yeah, I mean the the point will is is well made and I'm glad you stated it That the plus one to wound often gets duplicated because of other abilities already existing on scroll with with your units Um, I saw somebody say it's I think uh, maybe grand alliance death said he thought it was a nonbow with, uh, Frankville touch or whatever and I don't think that's true Because only one in six year attacks auto wound Why not also make more of your normal attacks that do you don't roll six to hit wound as well? I think it's supplementary, right? But it's still good. It's supplementary on the attacks where you're not doing Way of dice, right? Like yeah auto six the wound help with weight of dice But when you have high quality attacks like kurdos Every single one of them needs to land right, right exactly Although or something it's it's not too. It's manageable. It's not the end of the world Right. Yeah, one of them doesn't shut off the other It's not like compared to like if you had like sixes to wound do more for wounds that would and you lost that opportunity That would be more of a problem Right. It's in the malls a big deal So I think this guy is like up for consideration. I actually don't you're absolutely right niko about the average cost of casters drifting up Um, like we can all thanks lanesh for really breaking ground on this because they were the first one to promote all of their single casters See like 150 points um So but I do like this guy's buff especially in certain lists and you know Spectral lure the good thing about it is that range. I agree with the variability of it. It is a cast that's hard to do sometimes but man that is just like That is a wild range to be able to restore models. So The fact that it's so flexible What I found often was like I would like retreat out of combat right and then like One of the first things I would do is I would rally And then I would hit with the spectral lure and like just begin like filling that unit back up Um, and again, it's not the 2d6, but again a d6 grimgaff reapers. I'll take that He doesn't mean in the same turn people just to shortcut because the way you just described Everybody was gonna like oh feel like no, like I'm just about to invite some pushing up the glasses going home actually If you have a phase before the movement phase tom Yeah, of course not. We know what you're saying on the next turn. Yes. I got you. Of course I've done an exact exact kind of thing with with like, you know five Reavers survivor, you know 30 block of Reavers survivor charge from a cabbage kills 25 of them The other five were out of combat. They rally immediately They walk away from him. They shoot him a bit Then I do another rally and then I do, you know, the sole render is bringing back D3 plus three models the next two times and then suddenly there's like 17 guys Yeah, it's you know, those kind of things can be devastating. They don't quite wipe the unit Yeah All right, let's keep going. Let's talk spirit of torment and our non-hero Yeah, I'm gonna call these guys warlocks because they remind me of like eldar warlocks. It's like random two wound buff dudes Um, they're my they're my boys. This is this is my this is my the core of my my strat on the This last weekend. Yeah, so I like both of these these guys um So spirit of torment first or spirit torment. I know it's not of but I want to put the of in there so bad Why is there not an of in that name? It drives me crazy at any rate This is what you are already describing Niko and this is like super crazy good at the end of the combat phase You can pick one friendly knight haunt summonable unit holy within 12. It's still a fairly generous bubble You can either heal up to three wounds allocated to that unit or if no wounds are allocated to it You can instead return a number of slain models that have a combined wound characteristic of three or less Fantastic stops chip damage from ever being a thing against your army just by his existence Um, okay, all your summonable units just become immune to nonsense chip damage um, yeah, it's fascinating because You used to have to kill enemy models in order for this to trigger Right and now it just it's just a heal. It's an auto heal. Yeah, you can be miles away from the battle Yeah, tech just absolutely hates this kind of thing like what he's doing is tech native and then like bang bang Yes, he does really back through back Yep, uh, so I like this guy a lot and again his attack profile is fine because he has neg 2 2 damage And I has three attacks, but it's it's fine for what he is. I don't but that makes you run Two inch range catches people out I had a my beast of nergal player came in with sloppity and he was all excited and came in and hit my chain rast and pinned him and uh And the near beast died And this guy was like stuck and unable to pile and he's like, okay Well come back over and I'm like not actually With my neg 2 render attacks, you know like all three of them fully buffed up just stripped the save right off and went You know six damage straight to the wards like twos and twos baby And then yes chain guests who are obviously actually not a hero But show up just they they kind of like sneak into the pseudo hero section here basically Because they're like a utility non hero buff unit basically And you pair them like they only work when they when you have a torment on the table Which is a real big distinction yes So uh add one to hit rolls for attacks made with melee weapons by friendly night hot units Holy within 12 of any friendly units with this ability While a friendly spirit torment is on the battlefield not near him. He's just got to be somewhere. He's got to exist That's more generous than it used to be right because they used to be they had to be near each other 12 of They you There was a price point where um You know previously where people were thinking about spamming these as like an actually semi reasonable shooting in it when it popped up Um level 75 probably a bit too pricey now but Yeah, really good utility and the bit of the bit of damage as well And you know as we said like chipping a couple of models Chipping a couple of wounds away with your model wounds apps and your candles and these 15 inch shots is Can be really handy Yeah, yeah, these guys are perfect to keep to be the the units that like get pulled for me like when I could Deploy in the underworld like these almost always were deployed in the underworld because There's no reason not to you because you're going to pop them up nine inches out Which is where they need to be right right in order to spread their buffs And then when you pop up nine inches out those 15 inch they still get their shooting Is your shooting attacks happen after your movement? And so like it's just like they get to do all their things they get to buff they get to shoot And they just get to hang out right I love and these are the secret to the hero bubble because these guys hang out like they'll zone like the back of your hero bubble or whatever Right, and so they still get That's funny because these guys got worse by the way Because they used to they used to do a number of attacks per model to like all enemy units within three inches Which was what I hear that but I like with two of them at adepticon I did like 27 attacks against zombies. It was great. Um, I'm just saying I hate They're so dumb We'll get to another example one of those that still survived. Um But uh, I mean what I'll say is this I like I love these guys I wouldn't go any I wouldn't go home without at least one set of these shakeouts Yeah, I mean the attacks got worse the melee theoretically, I guess right um, but the the the thing you were taking them for This buff got so much better Because of not needing to chain the characters around That's the right, right, right Well in right north condemned they were pushing out a 15 inch re-roll hits bubble Without having to chain So I like it like that's like with right now. I'm not counting that because that was never going to Literally the second that got published five minutes later. We were like this is not going to stay so like it was never real I'm glad you got to manipulate it and utilize it, but you know Okay, it's great. It's a great weekend. Um They're great. Uh, yeah, good stuff and like four wounds on a four up six up is actually a lot harder to remove than you think The last thing I want to say on these guys before we leave them is I want everybody to remember the gassed flails profile Yeah, and and the number of a shooting attacks and the various the like the profile and number of these shooting attacks Vis-a-vis the points because it's two of these dudes. So I'm getting four attacks on fours and threes neg two one damage for 95 points Which is like I would have a 15 inch range 15 inch range. I just want us to lock that that profile in our heads For later for later. I won't spoil it, but let's just let's just all keep that up here for later. Okay Yeah, all right, great No reason Uh, the tomb banshee most improved flare award right here Uh, I love the tomb banshee. I love that they actually tried to make this ancient hero that you can buy for like eight dollars I mean, this thing is so cheap. If you could find it still in its little clamp back, right? Uh, so she has a little range attack that is whatever it is. It's fine Her reason the reason you take her I love by the way. She only has two attacks By the way, tom. She's like below the three attacks thing because she's I don't count her She doesn't exist in my mind. Oh, I love this little hero. Okay. So what I what I enjoy about her. She's is I'm I'm I'll I'll take lead on her because I have something I really enjoy about her and something I don't enjoy about her What I enjoy about her is I think she has again. We're stealing other people's ability. This is kind of how total eclipse Uh, should have been but it's against one unit Correct at the end of your charge phase You can pick one enemy unit within 12 inches of this unit and roll a die. Now. She didn't have to charge. It's just that's the trigger time Right. She just needs to be around Yeah at the end of the charge phase Your charge phase your charge phase. Yes. Um, but Well, this lasts longer than just the resulting phase But yes, add one to the roll if the target is terrified Cool. So if somebody else charged them within three inches, then you're doing this on a three up So on a four up or three up if they're terrified Your opponent has to add one to the number of command points that are spent to issue a command to that enemy unit until your next hero phase So that that thing actually sticks around potentially quite a while On that if you get double it would be nice. Yeah, right Now my issue with her is I really like that ability like I really do I love the idea of bleeding out there their unit. They want a buff Okay, and making it very hard because like everything gets harder on that unit Right. They want to redeploy that unit. I hope you're willing to spend two command points to do it Yeah Because again that like that unit didn't necessarily have to be in combat Yeah What I don't like about it is What's that Nico go ahead? I'm sorry imagine it's man friend or something He's got like that hero phase command ability that he really wants to use and right Everything gets more expensive for a long time but My issue with her is 115 points is just slightly too expensive For what she does that's the you'll never using this ability if it was on a two up with the plus one Yeah, sure if it started at three and went to two or something like that Another yeah another little gripe is like the wording should be like You know when a unit receives a command receives a command because I've said issue two instead of receives Right, and then it's when you use it you spend one more but you know, that's not everyone understands what it's getting at But it's just unfortunate if it was like all enemy units within 12 inches Or I mean that's so strong. You'd have to like jack her points way up or something like that But it would be more reliable and usable like She has to be in she has to be in the pocket at the 12 inch mark To utilize this so in threatening range, right? I understand And that unit has to be the strategic unit that they're going to want to issue commands to which may or may not be the case I mean, I that's why I moved because I knew that was the one they're gonna want to issue to It's generally pretty obvious who they want to issue to the units you're fighting That's not And it fails 50 percent of the time it fails 33 percent of the time often But yes, like because you can often have them terrified at this point Yeah, I just I'm not spending 115 for that I'm just not doing it It's definitely a bill where you take like turd os and you take a linda and you take Maybe a couple of tune banshees and you really lean into this commandability frustration Right side of things, but yeah, it's worth trying to think To me, I would love her at 95 points maybe even 100 That's where I would really be in love with her It does stack interesting as if you had two tune banshees It does. Yes, because it's just add one Yeah, so multiples of them screaming at a unit can make it just prohibitively expensive to actually use command points on a unit at all That is true That is a little more interesting. I wouldn't buy her for 75 points Wow, no, I take that back. I would buy her for 75 if I have 75 left in my list and because there are no other Your spike is showing right now Because it's a real role is too hard for you No, she's just not reliable like that's what that's what I just said. You're just Raising what I just said And she's taking up a one of your six euro slots with like you are competing I don't have room for her. That's fine. She a leader Definitely Just thinking about that is a great question that I don't know is she actually taking up a leader slot Is sadly Can rate is a leader She probably is that would have been a great trick if they had left like the uh Yeah, she is a leader guys. Yes. She is she is if she was not I would consider her at 100 we'd go back home like any any cheap unit has that extra utility There's only being an extra charge roll an extra real charge the next turn But I would rather have four banshees on the table than her and four banshees are more near born and they're 105 I understand I I like her. I I I stan her I like to see these super old heroes get used. Let's talk about the last hero Carnraith. Yes, this guy who a good old boy Who who still has the I get a number of attacks equal to the number of models within three inches Is this the hero we need for the upcoming horde meta tom in my first build My very first list he made it As my general And do you know why I'm ready So that you lose less when he dies There is a command trait That gives you reroll all hits and wounds If the unit you are attacking on your general if the unit you are attacking is not a death unit Yeah, there it is and so This dude this guy Running in on any like multi model unit, right like With his reach would go in Would be like could be on twos and twos reroll all hits reroll all wounds and get like 20 attack I think yeah, it's potential, but there's not enough in the meta the problem is there's not enough like multiple unit Uh multi like multi model Stuff to utilize him Thankfully is quite an innocuous model compared to everything else So the possibility of your opponent forgets this is the case and puts 30 witch elves, you know Base to base next to each other to maximize their attacks and then oh whoops But like if they are paying attention then Imagine what this would do block of witch elves with that command trait Like he could almost single-handedly lift that unit If you were ambitious, you could give him arcane tome with with uh Flame blade exactly flaming and I can't believe you're standing the car and wraith when you are so negative on the two banshee It's ridiculous like the iris I feel 32 male base. I believe I know I would feel the car and wraith in a heartbeat over the banshee Wow, but then you then you play sons or angels with pigs It's just like sure and and and that happens sometimes too. Yeah I mean what the point is both are super niche niche heroes. Sure. That's my point I and you're gonna want to take a moment to say I'm I'm super glad they tried to give Both of these old old old heroes that has still just been hanging around forever Like some use like people could use these and not feel like a moron is what I is what I like We can argue about their overall efficacy But I actually love that these old sculpts that they're you know, these are cheap They're cheap heroes. They're cheap models and people that have probably have them in their Collections and it's just cool that they like hey, they can do something. That's great. I was looking for a reason to paint him That's great. Okay Also 115. I think we said that Yeah All right, let's get into battle line boys. Here we go. Get into them units. Okay Uh, okay Uh so Grimgast Reapers formerly the only unit from this army that people often liked In a certain time period of the past Yeah, uh, and now here they are Basically eight inch move like everything in this army now four up save Two attacks each of two inch range fours threes neg 1 1 damage and they get one more attack Of their little sights if there are five or more models in the target unit So they go up to three attacks each so on and so forth All right 160 points for 10 and they are battle line I should have made that note as well, but they are battle line. Um Tom how you rating how you're rating ggr's Uh, I did not rate them real high initially. Okay, um and nico actually turned me around. Um through some conversations on them So I um and actually I'm painting up 20 right now I think that they are the wonderful like they are a wonderful switch unit And what I mean by that is I think that they function both well both as an anvil and a hammer Okay, um, and they're the only they're one of the only units that I would rate as both of those things That they can serve based on whatever buffs they're carrying Because one of the differences is like unlike chain rats. They're actually sitting on a four up save instead of a five Sure They're actually at a 10 bravery instead of an eight. Yep Um, so they actually in large numbers do make a great anvil Right, but because they're two inch reach you're actually going to get them in range to do damage Unlike all the other 32 mil units that we're going to talk about. Yep Um, and when they receive the buffs like if they're in my buff window, right? The plus one to hit plus one to wound passive they're on threes and twos That's pretty good Like they're going to confirm a whole lot of hits So, you know, you're regularly going to throw out 40 attacks sometimes, you know, you're going to fight in two ranks basically And so if you run 20, you'll basically have a line of 10 Honey combed out and get all 20 in 40 attacks I don't expect to utilize the five models plus one to attack Like you're not regularly going to use that in this meta that may change Yeah, I'd say it stops on these guys because if we if we do if if the incentives actually switch and we see more horde type action Or larger units than these guys these guys the values are just so he goes up. Yeah Now nico, you're pretty hot on these boys I am I mean for all the all the reasons tom tom's sadly the two inch reach is an absolute game changer I've been seeing that with thralls recently. It's just incredible Uh, they do receive like the minus one to be wounded and the the fiber ward spells really well They run in a they run nicely in a 20 probably wouldn't go for the 30s. It's so many points in one place Yeah, um, but obviously we treat in charge. They are, you know, very able to reach a reposition Um, yeah, I like them a lot, you know clubmate ben murphy is really keen on them at the south london legion as well um Yeah, they're a big winner for me to be honest that they're really if you want a big Hammer in this army. You're pretty much between them or the incarnate of guh um Because to get one thing that used to call out attack and everything else on to actually You know kill something and want to go as opposed to with the msu style Right, so things at the same time. These are the things to go for and obviously one damage means they're Not being affected by um, you know coalesced or uh, other knight or armies with appreciators. So Nice, really. Well, they can be terrified. So you Well, appreciators will never work against other knight haunt true true All right, so oh, just want to answer this real quick. Hey re blue Thank you. Do I have a preferred worm or 40k or aos army that you love painting? Uh, yeah, sure. I mean skaven and slanesh would be the easy answer there But I mean I have 20 painted armies. So clearly I like a lot of armies 21 now technically I guess if you count the 40k armies, you really love slanesh And if you don't believe them all of his armies look like slanesh at a distance because he uses the same colors So That's slanesh is the answer. That's not true That is not true. If you walk into my room 60 60 pink and purple that might 66 percent of your armies. Oh, Nico might be more accurate. Okay uh chain rasps So our our our weedy battle line Uh, Nico, let's flip the script here 110 for 10 by the way, and they're you know Two tax force for is no red one damage and they get plus one to wound if they charge What you take on chain rasps on the raspy rasps and obviously these guys are about a line as well I think in in three of the sub factions you're just taking these guys as 10 man chaff screens in the Grieving lesion with a no retreat. I think you're taking A 30 a 20 of chain rasps and then 20 grim gas because you're wanting those as tagging units where you're gonna charge into a chaff screen and then have one model 2.9 Is away from sign behind the chaff screen or to the side of the chaff screen And then they are stuck with no retreat. You can potentially layer on defensive buffs as as needed on The chain rasps and they will just sort of grind away They don't synergize as tom mentioned with the guardian of souls. He's probably one of these I'm a little bit cooler cooler on him The plus one of wound But because they're on 25 mils, they will do some some work over time And with you know with multi-charging you could potentially get them to quasi rend 2 which suddenly just drastically improves what they'll what they'll do um But yeah outside of grieving lesion you're looking at like here is a cheap 10 man line of chaff Still like him in 20s like I still have a 20 block even in my emerald List because they are it is a great tar pit and it'll be objective Um, like if you can revive reliably put these on fives and fives, which you can um Then like they it's 20 wounds on fives and fives man. That's that that's plague bearers, right? That's better than plague bearers now because plague bearers are sixes and fives rendible um And on 20 wounds and so I like I love I still love a 20 packet chain raps as it is I I my entire Offense was built on like these guys on threes and threes re-roll right There's reason for these re-roll hits threes re-roll ones to win. Uh, and just Then being on threes and threes auto confirming on sixes now Right. Yeah. Um, I like I I like, you know 20 of these guys is 40 attacks Yeah, that's pretty good Good for them on the four up to we're normally because it's like effectively two hits for every six And the other thing is they have a battle tactic for chomping on a on a hero or a monster Which could be the five green guy. So So I like them is my point and and I will still run them Yeah, like at all of my builds. I am still running chain raps And so they are super efficient and not just as like a tenor but as a 20 Because they are like if you don't remove them They are a real problem because they will rally back up. You will spirit ornament Like they will be an issue. And so I just I'm still really high on chain raps even though 110 like That's a lot of points for for a For a lower tier battle line, but whatever Yeah, I what I think is interesting and and I'll kind of save my thoughts here as we go forward But I actually what I love is how you can mix the different battle line in this army Like this army has a lot of really different interesting battle line And I actually think the way like the lists I've looked at have all mixed the different battle lines To different purposes like I want to use a lot of them two different ends And I think that's actually a really really really good thing Like gosh, I wish all armies were built like this where you look at all the different battle line units and you go Yep, I can see a roll for that. I want it to do this I want to use one of those battle line one of those battle line one of those battle line Where you're not immediately just trying to like get this crap out of the way so I can get to the good units Right now these These guys have a function and grim gas battle line good function these guys function. They fit a roll. They're doing it They're doing it pretty well Okay Blade geist revenants revenant So these are our boys who go battle line in the blade guys revenant crimson doom Uh and you know they're the key with these guys is they are on 32s And that's a challenge with the one entry with the one entry each Um, they have two attacks three three snag one one So a slightly better base profile Then grim guests right because the three to hit versus the four to hit And they get plus one attacks character to their attacks characteristic if they charged So they have a more reliable higher attack number And uh, yeah, sure because of the retreat in charge. That's that's usually true Um, I mean it depends again. Who knows what the meta looks like like if the meta suddenly flooded, you know post Skaven post sylvaneth post ghb if the meta is flooded with big horde units Then it might be more consistent that you're getting that that bonus attack off turn even Then you're just on your turn retreating and charging But whatever I don't want to get into they both have a plus one attack mechanic Meta determinant as to which one is is actually valuable or more valuable or whatever Right, but the big challenge with these guys is obviously the Uh, the one inch reach on a 32 mil model, which means either you have to fight in the very specific like magnet tray Honeycomb honeycomb To get all of your attacks or you just got to accept it like some dudes aren't fighting Right. Yeah Yeah, and I like I For my last few events. I've run heritons, which are I've been running 10 models. They're on run them in tens 32 mil bases one inch reach And the reality is is that like they're just sometimes where I couldn't get a whole unit in Yeah, and it's a very real possibility They're cheaper and they synergize better with uh, the the touch exploding plus six is auto read Yeah, yeah at the end of the day Go ahead, Nico. I was just saying like I only see play guys revisions being run in tens and Probably only in in the scarlet, but when they are in scarlet, I think they're an excellent option because they're just doing Very solid like three three to four model wings for every 10 10 of the charges that the ability to focus fire that and then have the potential for for extra Debuffs to save with the small number of models actually are are hitting is is potentially quite savage. So Yeah, I'm interested in them, but strictly in that sort of faction Agreed that is the place to use them Yes, because then you can like take a bunch of the MSU units multi-charge and hopefully just blow through something And where it's like well my coherence doesn't matter because you're basically dead on the charge already I only need a few guys to fight you to clean up whatever's left. Yeah Yeah Okay, craven throne guard battle line if kurdos is your general. No, you got this wrong. Oh, yeah in the army Yeah, he just has to be in the army. Oh, is that kurdos shows up kurdos shows up and these guys are like, oh, thank you. You're right. Yeah, he's like i'm ready But I still would never include a unit. That is the most nice at tumble have a be about this unit Yeah, that's exactly right. Thank you. Why didn't when I sent this out for review Why didn't you tell me that with that? I had this error here because then but I wanted to tell you in front of 250 people live That's why well, that's good. Yes. That's fine. I was just reading. I appreciate you All the hard work that I do for this show being being uh, we're you know, that's great Uh, the real that's my flip it reason. The real reason is is I didn't read it. Got it. That also makes sense Yeah, okay, so this is the disappointing cross moves, right? I mean, can we say this any other way? They're fairly disappointing They're like 230 for for 10 effectively. So like whereas like reavers are 170 Even like slanesh ones are better value than this I mean silent silent weekly and And I the south of the legion have really tried to make these work I think they do have this rally thing So on five ups they rally and that is a lot better on a shooting unit because you're less likely to be unable to Rally from being in combat and in theory you could deep strike them You can you know have a unit of 15 and it's actually quite hard to get rid of a 15 As we just kind of discussed with chain rest Um, however, that's still so many points. Um, and the output is just weak You know, one good thing about the output is that spiritual touch does work on it So the six is to hit will auto wound. It's just not enough And but none of your other buffs work Yeah, none of your pluses to hit and wound. Yeah, none of the plus to hit. None of the bubbles work No, they're only rerolls. So they're just Yeah, it's a real stretch of that price point But you know, that means Potentially they can go down but they really need to feel like a 15 inch range They need Something better than just ignore a line of sight because that doesn't help very much at 12 So I read there they're like obviously these guys came out in the box, right? And you read the ability this unit can target enemy units with shooting attacks Even if the target is not visible to the attacking model like, okay, cool with my 12 inch range I don't know what building is in the way that I'm actually shooting through But that's fine In addition enemy units targeted by shooting attacks made by this unit do not receive the benefit of cover for those shooting attacks All right. Yeah, Nico, did you ever when did you start playing warhammer? Nico? Uh, when I was 15 probably Okay, so what year was it like I'm not trying to get your age What edition did you start in 99? Okay, so you were at the tail end of fifth edition, right? Yes So in fifth edition else Yeah, there was a unit In the dogs of war called lumpencrups fighting cocks. Okay. They were little halfling archers Yep, and I love those little guys. It was a little halfling archers and lumpencrups Had a they were they were a similar issue unit, you know little little bow dudes And they had an ability that made them immune to way watcher traps Okay at the time Wood elves could pick woods terrain like add woods terrain on the board if they had a unit of way watchers in their army And trap those woods and if somebody else walked into it, then they took some some hits of a certain strength But but don't worry lumpencrups could go in those woods and be immune to the way watcher traps And the constant joke amongst our group was how many points am I paying for that? I would like to give that ability back and save whatever stupid points I don't care if it's one point per model. I I will take it Okay And all I can think of when I read these guys and see that I you get to ignore cover is like How many points am I paying for that? I just I would just just make them cheaper Yeah, I mean I now let's refer back to the previous joke about chain guests right 95 points 20 points cheaper So out of these five guys I get 10 attacks on fours and fours neg one one damage Whereas out of the literal four chain guests who are actually doing other things by the way or two chain gas, right? Who are other things by the way who are buffing a unit in a good way? I'm also getting four attacks at fours threes neg two Uh one damage I think on average they do more damage than these guys do Like on the numbers I haven't count that out with a six to auto wound, but it's competitive. I'll say that much. Yes. Yeah Oh, yeah, I haven't count out with a six to auto wound. Yeah, right so My my point is is that like these guys are such a miss and it makes me sad because they're a cool idea Yeah, I have a bunch that aren't built and aren't going to be built Yeah Like just that range is too short. The attack is too weak You know, I don't or or the points are too high something Right, like there's something not right here. One of these things needs to move Yes, this is what we call a bad scroll. Yes That's that's all from the rally thing the rally thing has potential particularly if they were like 10 20 Okay, so let's say that they rallied on four new points with new points. Yeah, I mean that's Like yes, if you change all of those other things Right, yeah, they have add good ability in the rally thing. Unfortunately, it's attached to an otherwise bad war scroll. Yes, exactly. Yeah All right, they compete with glaive wraith stalkers for the worst glaive wraith stalkers, uh, so Obviously the reason that you might like glaive wraith stalkers is that they do have a two damage base Which is you know pretty rare outside of the heroes in this army Um, but they are a hundred Kind of finish the stats. There are 105 points for four models Okay, and the cool thing about them. Look, I do want to say the cool thing about them because I don't totally hate those guys That's I do but continue. I understand. I don't think they're good, but they do have a need ability all right The cool thing about them is that you basically pick a unit at the start of the game The start of your first hero phase as it were And if this unit's on the battlefield, you can pick one enemy unit to be its prey After this unit makes a move if this unit finishes that move closer to its prey Which is very easy because you just pick whatever's in the back corner of their army effectively most times, right? You don't need to even really move toward that thing. Like if you're moving like this, you're still closer right Then you get plus three to charge and it's cool because they also have a built-in plus one to charge So they have plus four to charge which is cool If Moved that the wave of terror number then I would agree. Yeah, which it does not it's unmodified obviously Yes, it does. No, so now it's just it just doesn't do anything like Can can we skip spirit host and we'll come back to them because I really like them But I want to I want to review this scroll immediately next to the banshees It's really important that we see that same price Yeah, that's same price. I try to find a combo with like with orac, but unfortunately doesn't work You want to move and then teleport you could maybe like and they don't get to do an objective But it doesn't work timing wise a start of movement phase So let's skip over spirit host and we'll come right back to them and and consider mirror more banshees Okay, that's because mirror more banshees have the same profile one wound for four models for 105 eight move 10 bravery for upset, right? Their profile alone Is Two attacks same fours and threes neg two rend two damage each Yeah, so they get double the attacks Better rend Same stuff same points same models And instead of giving them The ability to close the gap They into the mirror more and banshees get probably one of the most powerful spell abilities in the game right now. Yep Yep, okay, and what this bubble is is Um, and by the way, this wording has changed somewhat From when it got released in the box till it made this book, which is a fascinating change It's more powerful now than it was in the box So now it's you roll 2d6 each time an enemy wizard successfully casts the spell and is not about and chooses for the effect of the spell To apply to a unit wholly within 12 of this unit. Yep Or when an endless spell finishes a move within six inches this unit If this unit has three or more models you're gonna add one to this roll If your role is greater than the casting value of that spell or endless spell not the dice rolled No, the casting but whatever the number is on the scroll Yep, then the spell is unbound before it has any effect or the endless spell is dispelled Um, and so what's interesting is that this spell um Like this gives you a second unbind against spells at the easier value and all it has to do is it It has to affect one of your units wholly within 12 It's Yeah, they try to like you got banshee's floating around a lumeneth unit and they try to power of haish themselves You can shut that right down. Yeah, you will eat their power by age. You'll eat their mystic shields You'll eat their arcane bolts. Yeah Yeah, it probably needs uh an f a q because like chooses for the spell to apply to like imagine like Techless is doing his protection aura. Is that choosing to apply to it's just kind of This came up in our game because I ran four banshees And the to ruled in my favor Okay, um, and so like I got to like I rolled there's only two units unfortunately That was in the bubble at the time But I got to roll up two bites and if either bite would have hit Uh succeeded the whole spell would have been shut down Yeah, because I I'd be inclined to think that it's either going to get a rata to be like picks a picks a unit within 12 Well, it used to be pick and they changed it to this They changed it to this from the pick of you Okay, um Yeah, and so it's a real like And the question is it's like let's say that A spell like his multi target, right that hits a bunch of different units Are you rolling 12 times or however many units are in this? Like techno just would never work. Basically. Yeah. Yeah, the techless spell would just literally shut down every time he tries to cast Oh, you are struggling against a 10 So I missed the energy units as well, which is really nice. It's like mystic shield Yeah, so I I rate these guys really high But I struggled to fit them in less Regularly. See this is everything. I I've totally come around on these banshees, Tom You know, I always hated this unit. I was hot on it and they never did not for you, but you kept liking but now But now I like that model. No, it's honestly. There are other offensive profile is perfectly good. Like it's it's good I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying it's good But I don't but that's not why I'm putting them in the army That spell eater ability is so good the utility on that's so wildly good The fact and it's what what The penny dropped for me Literally when I realized it could be on buff spells as well because all good spells right now in the meta are buff Like a merc knob is crying about how much better this is than Yeah, and like but I know you I know you're kind of like flippantly dismissing the offensive power of these guys But I'm not saying it's not the reason they win me over I had four of them in my list this weekend. Well, they were still 70 five points then They're 105 now But I had I had one unit of four in there and in two different games in one game. They lifted a lord of afflictions Because it's it's eight attacks on with in the buffs in the bus circle. There's threes in toots sure Yeah, um And neg two rend two damage pop and then I in another out they lifted the nemardi king Yeah, I have those like final sort of 200 210 points And it's either like do I take kudos? Do I take two units of these? Do I take, you know these? I think an eight pack of these in I think an eight in um, I think an eight of these in Uh hunters is really interesting Because it because it becomes it's your secondary wave It's your secondary like reactive hammer It sits in the back line buffs to everybody because eight is a huge like a huge spread Right. Holy within 12 of eight of these guys You see that sits behind the line And they come in and then it counter charges And just like, you know, again eight of these is 16 attacks right Um, that's a lot Yeah, it's definitely a good unit Yeah, no, I mean the Look the same weakness and achilles heel that's always been there for this unit is still there for this unit Sure, sure, which is these are four wounds for 105 points Yep. Yep, right, which is why I like a double reinforced unit at at eight wounds Because it gives your your refill abilities the the opportunity to actually catch the unit before it explodes, right? Uh, so Yeah, I mean you're you're absolutely do the comparison between the two and you're right This is the challenge what I was going to go for was I love great glaive wraith's little chargey ability But when you compare this is the story I was going to tell the little utility of this Compared to the utility of this Yeah, like forget even the attacks exist, right? Right. I mean obviously the attacks are better But just forget those even exist you look at the utility of the two things you're getting four wounds for 105 points Let's assume I'm getting it just for the utility. It's not even close Right, right, right. That's the trick Yeah, okay. Let's talk about everybody's favorite new battle line. Uh, a lot of people are going to get real frustrated Assembling this kit. Uh, I can't wait to see All the people like I picked up some yeah some spheroes. How do you assemble these? Uh, because these guys are real good now These guys have been at battle line choice like one of my units I've had a unit of these in basically every list I've written I love them. I just love them Um spirit host three wounds each their elite cool beans neat. I don't know that that matters at all in this case But sure why not? Uh, they make a bunch of attacks. I don't really care about I'm buying them completely for for drawn to war Uh, which is they as I said, they are about a line, by the way And there are 125 points for three before you allocate a wound or mortal wound to a friendly night haunt hero Uh, or instead of making a word roll for a wound or mortal wound that would be allocated to that hero If any friendly units with this ability are within three inches of that hero You can roll a die on a three plus that wound or mortal wound is allocated to a friendly unit This ability instead of that hero and cannot be negated Thank you for putting all the correct wording in here, by the way Making it so they don't get their word roll against it I have no idea why the fire slayers heroes are the one thing that cheats. They shouldn't please strike that from the record It's stupid. Um, this should this is the correct way to write this ability Good Okay So effectively you just have if you use this bodyguard, you have no words say the tool effectively which means Straight onto the spheroes to the extent you roll the three Which is a good way to do it because it's a genuine sort of trade off Yep, yeah, and again, they're summonable You can refill because they're at that magic number of three wounds It actually makes it advantageous because you can do things like Many of the things that can drop stuff back in has a can drop either a whole model back or still hit the three that they need To drop them back or whatever I love these guys. I love that they can bodyguard for any of your heroes This was I think tom one of the major requests of basically every night hot player was give us some option To make our heroes more survivable and certainly giving them the equivalent of like nine ish extra wounds on a three up to transfer over Is a way to do that. It's huge. It's so huge Um, and my favorite point is that they're not like dedicated like it's not a dedicated red right, right, right? So like what happens is this is this unit? Sits in the middle of my five heroes Right that all travel together is one big pack Well, we should point out if you've got two units then you can start Yeah Yeah, you'll all treat them both on one wing each because you allocate one wing at a time Yep So again, just going down the battle line road Right of of like having different battle line units of different purposes most of my lists were like a unit of of Grimgast's a unit of chain rasps a unit of these guys And i'm pretty happy with my battle line in the three different roles that i'm doing here Like all my battle line are doing something I want them to do you miss the hex race for mobility That was the other one that you just we're gonna get there. Yeah, we're gonna get there. Don't worry. I love me some hex rates, too Yeah, yeah um Yeah, they're they're wonderful. They're gonna show up in almost every list. Um Because like what do you love more than olander olander guard? You know with a three upwards a from spirit host if you want sure Uh, I agree with your assistant ref who said they're actually surprisingly decent too with the auto wounds on six And the ability to get effective rent from the charges. They actually can do a little bit of work Especially against like other enemy sort of chaff type stuff. They will swarm and kill Okay, um dreadscythe heritans Who are battle line in the? Quicksilver dead. There we go. I had to think of the their proper name Uh, did they call them the quick silver dead as a reference to the quick and the dead? Is that what that is? I don't know. I don't either. I think they're trying to explain why the dreadscythe heritans have weapons for hands And so they're made out of metal. Does that make sense because the dreads like the quick silver They're all yeah, sure. They they have little yeah, because they have uh t2 Robert patrick terminator liquid metal terminator hands. Yeah, I think I think that that's I think that's where it came from It was so funny. I had these there this weekend like out of unit 10 and everybody's like, what is that unit? These no like most people who've even who've seen night haunt have never seen dreadscythe on the table ever Um, in fact, this was the last unit review Do you remember this was the last unit revealed for night haunt during the launch of aos 2 like this was the last unit we saw So most people didn't even really notice it in the initial launch either. Yeah. Yeah, and they were not good Um, it's interesting. I I have real mixed feelings about these I I was really high on them initially and I have cooled on them pretty significant. Okay Um, nico, do you want to talk about them? Yeah, sure I mean I had a similar trajectory as and I went out and immediately bought 50 of them when I saw the no What's thing in in that sub faction? I I do think You're probably taking no more than a minute minimum unit 10 in any other sub faction Maybe just for sort of utility and they got another one of these minus one to wearing buffs and one of the reasons I like them was that that debuff Effects the enemy units and therefore Benefits the incarnate of good who was most of my list. So that was nice Um, they are efficient in terms of the exploding sixes Uh, they have a nice sort of self. Well, they don't have exploding sixes anymore. You're saying they're auto confirming sixes, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry because effectively they're getting you're getting the math of an exploding six out of it when they're four Sure, sure I like unlike the the blade guys for evidence They're just not efficient attacking in it in fsu because they're not the blade guys doing those nice three more rings for every 10 Whereas these guys are just relying on their attacks of like the champion and like a couple of guys You can squeeze into the space you have available while the others are trying to do the same next to them Relying on hitting those, uh, you know eights and tens and whatever for the wave of terror debuffs um, so They are a less efficient way to do damage than the Than that and a less efficient way to do damage than Hex race that will come on to So other than the fact that they that the meta currently is very high on what says is Knight horn and docker boat is going to add to that They are not great So give it time and if the meta changes, you know back to like almost, you know, based on armor say or based on volume of models They will sort of fall away Yeah, yeah, I mean what I'll say is this their murderous bud less will trigger All will almost always be on, you know, like you have enough ways to do like mortals on charge and stuff like that in this army Yes, yeah, or do like or Right nor burning a candle or whatever right like there are tons of ways to trigger So you really need to look at this and just consider them. They're on threes and threes. Yep Yeah, okay. It's 40 attacks out of 10 models on threes and threes Which is good weight of dice is a good thing. Yeah, right But They could be chain wraps or grim raps grim raps right right Yeah, all right Chain wraps also get 40 attacks on threes and threes. Yeah, yeah, sure I think that I think I'm in the same place as all of you on these like I I where I don't know what to think about them fully because they seem so dependent on what you're fighting and You know being in quicksilver and what's the armor profile of your enemy look like and Did you charge and get the neg ones to save or multiple neg ones to save and like there's just so many variables that could make them Explosively good or just total garbage Basically, no, I agree. I agree with that completely and that's the challenge that I ran into in list building Is that I started heavy in quicksilver And then I began to like adjust and then I migrated to emerald and by migrating to emerald They lost value there and originally I still had them as my counter attacking unit like my counter punch Because they still serve that function really well But then I began I was like but would I rather have like spend the extra 50 points and have eight banshees? Well, yeah, any day that we get rather have you know, even though it's only 18 or it's only 16 attacks or 17 or 16 attacks rather than 40 Like the the value of those banshee attacks are like Way higher plus the utility unit and so I just like I just struggled with this unit and to the point where Like I Vince I had asked you to get some feedback on a list And I ended up just trading this unit for my uh, hex rates Got it. I mean, yeah, we're gonna come to it in a second. Hexies are coming up soon. Um, yeah I mean, let me say this I would just love one time to charge a unit of plague bears with a good unit of Herodans and uh, and watch what happens there because boy would you want to do hi bears? I want to do Uh fires. I want to do hearth garbors. We're sure just pick them up I would accept either because I hate both of those units. Yeah, just just killing them out would be great Okay The black coach I want to keep moving because we got we're we're deep into this now. I want to I want to make sure um Is anybody going to defend the new black coach? At 335 points is what he is now Too much Okay, so here's the one like It's got to kill let's let's talk about the scroll a little just real quick It has it doesn't just power up on its own like you don't just roll dice at it anymore It has to kill things to power up If it does power up to five It gains a four upward instead of a five upward because it doesn't it only powers up when enemy models die Yes, correct Each time an enemy model is slain or fleas within 12 inches of this unit. It powers up. Yes It doesn't have to directly kill them other things could they could be incidentally killed by other things, but yeah, certainly, certainly Okay, if it so if it gets to five if it gets this little power counter to five It goes from a five upward to a four upward And if the value is six you can choose to go bam and shoot with it Um, and on a two up you do 3d3 mortal wounds Okay It does as I said it does have this built-in uh five upward And it does, you know some impact hit mortal wounds right and You instead of picking this unit to make a normal mover a tree You can say we'll travel the underworlds to a new location if you use our move from the battlefield And set it up again more than nine inches away. It has its own built-in teleport Okay all right now Is this thing How do I want to say this Is it just that it's too expensive or is there value here like could this have a price point where you'd be a buyer Need 200 points That's way lower than 200 is necessary But go ahead and go what we say I would say like 290 maybe I think the problem is like it's pretty much the same price as a linda So i'm going to take a linda over this or i'm going to add on another seven to can actually get the monster keyword While we're staying in this current meta and then I've got monsters take over and right It's from that, you know, and it's not a hero either. So you know, you can't turn it in You can't turn it into a monster. You can't Uh, you know give it artifacts, etc. Etc The impact hits are pathetic considering the size of the model like that's just grim like pick one unit Not even every unit with the right I mean x-rays do the same x-rays do the same damage on impact Yeah, um And the the the laser gun is Is is good But it's just too expensive for me. I'm afraid it's let me ask you to improve war scroll, but the points went up by more Let me ask this. What is this unit doing in this army? I mean, are you asking what they intended it to do or what it's actually doing? What is actually doing on this war scroll? They intended it to be a distraction card effects. Go ahead, dingo I would say it's like a weird grab bag because it's kind of a tank with like effectively 18 wounds And it's got the laser cannon that powers up But it's not 18 It has it has to be at a five up power Oh, so there will be some matchups where this thing never powers up No, 18 wounds is on the five up. It's always got a five. Oh, sorry. Yeah, that's the map 18 wounds is That's the correct math for a five up word Yeah, because you would negate a third of the wounds dealt to you and then take 12 Wards where it would have 24 effective wounds if it was at a four up all the time. Okay. Sure. You double the four ups Yeah A weird mobile anvil with this laser cannon bolted on and some really bad impact hits It doesn't have any synergy for any other units near it. Oh, and it can teleport but it's It's a grab bag to me So when I used to run my coach before it did two things two very unique things in this army The first is it restored a d3 models nearby? Sure. Yes Okay, and it was a models. So I was actually putting like hex race whole hex race So that was the first thing that it did the second thing was it had extreme mobility Because what it did was it was a base 14 inch move My pendant the pendant of fell wind gave it plus three so it had a 17 inch base move when I would move it And it had run in charge after power level two and retreat in charge after power level four So like 20 plus the charge potentially Right. And so what I could do is I would jump this across the table 23 inches and charge something And stick it like jam it down somebody's throat when they had zoned out the area Like even if they had zoned out the area I could get it in there and just like put it in the middle of the back of their line and pick out a target And I sixes to hit on like 15 attacks previously mortalled Yeah, right. And so like when it came in I could kill a five wound hero Sure, you know like so it did those things It doesn't do any of those things anymore And if I'm taught like if I want mobility hex rates do it better Yeah, like if I want a laser Olander does the laser better or I can cause yeah And Olander's a hero and she and and and better better tank potentially as well Yeah, she almost has the same movement as the coach Yeah Yeah, yeah Like I just don't like I see this and it it makes me weep truly Because this Because this model Like very few times in my life have I painted a model in such a way that like it stops people when they walk by the table to stop and look at my coach Inevitably people will stop and like Oogle my model because of just how beautiful it is And you put it off flying high, haven't you and I have it flying high like over mausoleum and like and it just like it was like it's truly The definition of a centerpiece Yeah And that and that coach will not come off my shelf anymore Yeah, my okay. So here's my statement on this. I think actually what's killing this model I I agree it's slightly too many points. I I think you're crazy at 200, but I mean it But Nico's probably in the more right area, but like the rules problem this thing has Is it should have never lost run in charge If they had just kept it with run in charge I could have handled the movement reduction as it still could have got somewhere valid Okay But the problem is at 10 inches. It's just not going far enough to do what you need to do Visibly the other movement options you have in this book Yeah, and and yes, it can teleport but that's not an effective You know replacement for being able to move when people can zone you out and board control and stuff like that That's the issue because the teleports like against a good opponent You will never teleport into their backfield ever Right, absolutely And and the fact that it's so I actually agree with assistant ref's point that its base is so big That it can often be hard to even retreat and charge Right because it'd be hard to get to a place where you're just legitimately three inches away from everybody else Because it's on the the imperial night base Yeah Yeah, one of the I just That's there I and then again, I would rather ally in a mortis engine Yeah, people get my little attack Yeah, seven four points for the incarnate and he's giving you you know re-roll charge roll buffs He's giving you spam or attack on your msu Giving you no retreat to go with a no retreat sub faction And he's a monster so your monsters take I mean this guy Blackcoats be fair does unlock a battle tactic But so does the you know having a right I just Like it it pains me because of just how bad it is For like how it's not doing So many things that it it could be doing or should be doing And the reality is is that there are multiple games that I played this weekend Where the coach would have never turned on ever. Yeah, sure. Well, absolutely like in the current meta It's a real tough sell because you have like It just it's never to power up against the chaos beat like against my uh, Nurgle uh beast of Nurgle army that I played it never would have powered up Right is like just there weren't enough beasts kind of like the way the battle played like there's just never enough beast for it to actually turn on Yeah, I mean I I stand to bet him at it'll never turn on Look the mortis engine is going to give you similar shooting power Like mortal wound projection power as the laser gun for half the cost almost Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, because this thing doesn't actually go slam into people and slam jam bam Like it used to if it had run in charge in a higher move. I could see the argument Because then it would be playing in a different space It prepares unfavorably to pterodons, sadly Uh, oof All right, let's keep moving. Uh, is there anything we'll say about the briar queen? Is this I didn't even read this I never read under So I'll say this Uh, I looked at it, right because like I'm I get one for free for midwest meltdown So like I'm painting it I'm trying to figure out like where it fits her spell is nice Uh, it's a pick a point 18 inches um uh A roll 2d6 for each enemy within six inches at that point, right? So this is another six inch bubble Right if you roll over their movement Uh, or you roll a double You do one mortal wound And it halves their move Yeah Okay All right But it's 280 points, but here's the interesting thing The thorns of the briar queen the unit that comes with this Is six chain rasps But they're two wound models and they're three attack models Yeah, they're just better. They're much better chain rats. She has the elite chain Right, so it's actually a really interesting chain rasp unit because You're the the unit throws out 18 attacks Sure out of a unit of six models and so like it's not terrible But you are paying a full price for a full chain rasp unit and a full wizard is basically what you're paying the price for Yep Okay, so that's what I would say so it's not good But it's like appropriately priced as much as people hate me to say that given how they buff to everything else up Okay, that's fair All right, let's get on to hex wraiths I won't say we saved the best for last but we saved a good one for last. That's for sure of the units Yeah Uh, actually it's 12 inch move two wounds. Of course, they're pony ponies because they ride ghost ponies Uh, and two attacks each three threes neg one one damage Great fantastic And then I'm going to read the second ability first actually Sure, sure After this unit makes a charge moving a big one enemy within one inch and roll a die And if you on a two plus they do d three mortal wounds basically the same thing the black coach does so they have impact hits on every unit Yeah, uh, they're 160 for five by the way as it says on the screen But then the real reason you take them and it did like all that's a fine profile, by the way I don't have any problem with any of that These guys are battle line as well And the the thing that I absolutely love phantasmal advance like I don't know how this rule Actually got printed because this rule is crazy, man At the start of your movement phase you can say this unit will perform a phantasmal advance If you do so double this unit's move characteristic until the end of that phase, but they cannot charge So these dudes can just go 24 inches Straight up No, no, no They can go 30 inches straight up because there's nothing saying you can't charge. This isn't saying they only can only do a normal run Right run. Yeah, like that's what I meant. Sorry. Yes. They can uh, they can trigger all six Sorry, they can do a six auto run. Yeah. Yeah, and and jump to 30. Yeah, I'm saying it's it's like So good Just be again the difference between teleport versus raw movement and the fact that then by adding these guys in And depending on your hero structure, you can have both abilities Working in tandem where your entire army Tom, you know, I'm addicted to mobility. Yeah. Yeah, like I mean, it's it's how we kept caverns Cameron's Mall crusher out of the entire game is we just pivoted just pivot pivot pivot Yeah, yeah, and so right being able to take your between the earlier like that's actually the build I like by the way, just so we're getting on to like sort of my we're not going to do this tonight We will do a list show in the future. Don't worry Um, but like getting on to a sort of concept I like um It's I love when you can literally just reposition your whole army Yeah, right every round. I mean, this is what I built my whole cities of of of sigmar army I played around right was just like everything can just be positioned and spin and pivot around And the my hero collection focuses on like all rack and the dread blade And stuff like that so I can be pipped so I can be teleporting and double teleporting reposition And then hex wraiths to just be like Way over here wherever I want to be right so Yeah, uh, yeah, I mean Vince I'm hearing a lot of list building and a lot of like my night haunt. Does this mean you're making night haunt Are we doing double night haunt this fall? We are not. No, absolutely not. Are you sure? I'm I'm hearing a lot of night haunt. You are but no, um, I just I mean every time we When we get a book I do make lists with it because that's how you be informed on what you can actually do, right? It's good to actually sit down to try to build lists But no, you're in front of me But no, I'm not getting talked into ghosty boys. Tom. Sorry just not my arm Because we could do double night haunt. You could do all the horsies in the world. Stop it. It's not happening Okay Imagine 30 24 inch move for everything. Yeah, I got it. Nico. What about anything else we missed about hex wraiths Yeah, so they can basically do a very similar build to the The black ice revenants in scarlet where you're where you're relying on ms unions Retreat and charging and doing the mortal wounds. It's Basically a trade between speed versus a bit more damage for the for the black ice revenants Simon we clear the club and Arthur are extremely excited about x-ray spam and as you say the the ability to move block and just general utility Go and go and score savage spearhead Whatever whatever you want to do with that 24 30 inch move is incredible But I think they used to have two inch melee reach on the side which they've lost which is a shame but Yeah, otherwise, you know very solid profile Cav bases can be a bit annoying at times But uh, yeah, it's a it's a really tempting option So you got all those you've got, you know, very solid choice between and you want to spam hex Our x-rays do you want to spam? Bodies do you want to spam? Black ice revenants or or harridans? I think they're all they're all strong. I think harridan is probably The it's definitely the least interesting and probably the the weakest because it's match up dependent on annoying awards sales but All of those, you know, if you like the models or we're happy, you know, all of those sort of builds are viable Yep. Yep. They're great. They're super great. So, yeah, again Glad to see I'm still probably the like Very old one of the oldest scopes. Yeah, I was gonna say well I'm trying to think of the tomb banshee and carnraith are older Which would be the other two in competition with these they're still very viable They probably all dropped at the same time for vampire gills I'd have to I'd have to go back and look at we need we need hooves We need hooves of doom in here to tell us when there's the year these models were released At any rate, uh Grand Alliance says that I don't really like them as a max size anvil He said discorporate and a crusader in the middle. I'm sure Absolutely. Okay Endless spells there are three of them I don't like any of them except the terminexus. Am I wrong? Really? No, like it's funny Like I've looked at it and I actually like the damage of the other two Like I really do um The shyish reaper because it can pivot Like it can spin so it's automatically going to catch Right, it's already it's automatically going to catch everything around it. So anything it's next to when it moves It will it will hit um and You roll two dice for each unit it passes across sure, right? And You add one if the unit's terrified, which if you're stuck in melee like you're terrified, right? We've talked about this Sure um On if you roll uh equal to or greater than the unit's save characteristic Which let's let's just be clear. There are tons and tons and tons of low say like three up save in the game now Sure, and you're getting two dice per unit every dice Dice plus one is most of the time what it's going to be is a d3 mortals And so you can regularly do two d3 mortals per unit that gets touched by this Okay I mean, I don't disagree with anything you just said But the problem is I'm not sure that low save is going to stay the case number one, maybe not my My downsize that is the threat range of you know, only within six of them and there we go That's it. That's what kills it for me Like the reason I like terminexes And I don't like the reaper or the vault Is because terminexes still has a decent reach to it Yeah, not as good as it used to be but still good I just hate endless spells that people can see coming a mile away or I have to wait until late in the game when we're up in the mix to cast That's a problem. You will the difference is is that you will have Right nor that's in the mix and that's one of the differences is that right nor will We'll almost always be in the mix. Sure, but I want him to cast terminexes Sure, like that's the problem Or life swarm or umber or yeah or or or right like yeah, they're all more expensive than life swarm And that's when you're off and running Yeah, one I but life swarm can either bring back the one where we're more guaranteed or I can heal your heroes It's just a massive utility for the arms It's tough So let me affirm though like the other and I like the other one too that does a bomb like I think that against some armies It'll be really effective But in general I'm only going to buy one damaging Endless spell and that's the problem and I'm going to buy terminexes the best one Right, and you know the funny thing is is that for the first time ever with terminexes When I was like thinking about my moose and like how I position my army and like in this new book and how it changed But the old one Terminexes was was basically exclusively an offensive tool that I would chuck forward Hmm Okay What's funny is that in this new world of hero hammer where I'm going to have like like a bucket Of of little killer heroes. You can also just become a healing thing. Yes, even more reason why I like it hits us all of them Because you needed to make that decision at list building Right, right on the fly. You can just flip it from damage to healing. Yeah, correct It's not even when you cast it. It's just every time you just this is what it's doing now You know, you know, what's better than life swarm that heals a model or a unit for d3 Something that heals all units within six inches d3 It can't restore my life, but you can restore models Or it was even six to To a single year and one term which could be huge on the calendar Certainly, certainly, but like being able to like push your hero thing in engage And then have the terminexes off the back of your bases catching only your heroes and not theirs Like that's a very real possibility when you draw. Oh, yeah If they don't have they don't have shooting that's really quite terrifying or like super hammers that were just one shot something Right. Yeah. Yeah, because it'll it would if you don't get if they don't get rid of it It will tick for a d3 healing every hero phase Yeah Yep So there we go. That's it. Good stuff. We got to the end there gentlemen Uh, so it's still really good still really good uh Turns out the difference between 12 inches and six inches is a big deal. So, uh Gentlemen Nico, thank you for staying up so late. I really appreciate it. I know it's late there For all of you who are out there if you haven't already hit like hate Why don't you do so? Especially if you like this new night home book. There's another tremendous success for me. That's my final final statement Uh, 3.0 tomes, especially after the initial two where we had a little bit of rockiness in the initial two for obvious reasons I it's just been strength to strength to strength since then. I couldn't be more excited. These two just continue the winning Uh, I mean, we'll we'll talk about doc next week tune in come back next week for daughter's cane, but spoilers I really love that book too Still really good And so You know, I just think this is an absolute win. I love seeing the ghosts become a viable multi path Interesting army with lots of different list building potential where people can use a lot of the models that they love And not be a dumb dumb like oops. Oops. Sorry. You built it wrong because you happen to love these models I hate that right and now there's so much in this army. You can use and have success. I just think that's an absolute absolute win Yeah, it's it's even better than no, but like because no, I've got the blight kings who are kind of the sad cousins the rest of the battle line options Well, I think blight kings are just biting their time until yeah, they were great last edition So, you know, they were great last edition. So I'm sure they'll be they'll be fine in the future. Yeah But anyways, there we go. So thank you everyone if you haven't already hit like hit like subscribe We're here every week. Obviously Uh, don't forget we do have a patreon focused on the hobby So if you want to take your next step in your hobby journey, um, that that is focused on review and feedback And that's a great discord community around it Uh, but hit all those things. Don't forget. There's also merch down there. There's a merch link down there This is the shilling part of the show. Welcome to the shilling You can hit that merch Uh, you can buy your team tyler or team tom merch to show who you support Don't forget, but niko. Thank you so much for coming here, buddy. We really appreciate it You're really fun. Thank you so much Absolutely And for all of you out there, thank you so much for watching. We really appreciate it as always We'll see you next wednesday