 This is, start with start friend. Just submerging yourself in 44 degree water for six minutes sound fun to you? I promise you only shake for the first couple minutes. Well, thanks to people like Wim Hof and Joe Rogan, this practice has actually been gaining a lot of popularity. The benefits of ice baths or cold water therapy include reduced inflammation, pain relief, and can even boost your immune system. Some people fill metal tubs with bags upon bags of ice, while some people like Diego have a blue cube. Blue cube makes high end ice baths to keep the water chilled, flowing, and filtered. So you don't have to refill your tub every day with hundreds of pounds of ice. In today's episode, we talk with David Haddad, the co-founder of blue cube about the early days of starting blue cube in a barn in Oregon. The science behind why cold plunging is good for your health and how long you should stay in an ice bath to reap the full benefits. So grab your towel or blanket before we plunge into this week's episode. All right, welcome to the podcast on today's show. We're talking to David from blue cube. Thanks for coming on the pod. If people don't know, what does the company do? We make cold plunges, cold exposure therapy. It's awesome being here. Thanks for having me, Diego. Been trying to meet up for a minute. And we are pinnacle expression of cold exposure. That's how we like to see ourselves. So the cold thing, it sort of has taken off in the last probably two years where it's like next level, I have one now. People like Joe Rogan talk about it all the time in terms of like the benefits and stuff. When did you guys start the company? Or what was the thing? Were you guys always in sort of this cold immersion or what was the beginning of the company? So our founder, Thomas, he founded it in 2020 and he was looking to buy a high end bath for himself and being the entrepreneur that he is when he looked at the competition and kind of examined how they were being built. He's like, wow, I can. You can build one. I can build a better one. And he had, you know, taste and background in wood owning nice home. So for him, it made sense not only going high end but making it out of particular woods in a particular way that he wanted. He felt that other people would appreciate his taste. Because there's really nothing else on the market, right? There was no like higher end version. There was some competitors, some other people, but the way that they were building it, Tommy saw right through it and was like, wow, they're using really low grade parts but you know, charging an arm and a leg, I can do it better. Yeah. And then what was the first version of it? And was it always, so we'll talk about the moving water component to it too, but was it always, what was the first version of the whole? First version, we had stronger flow than everyone else, but flow was not the target. It was mostly stainless steel encased in basically a wooden cabinet or a wooden piece of furniture. We like to think about it. There was no tray dressing, no trim at all on the cabinet side. It was literally a stainless steel built into a piece of wood as a prototype. He wanted to make sure that the wood and the stainless and everything can kind of fit together how he wanted. And at the time, so 2020, do you guys think you're making a gamble on the cold plunge? Are you thinking maybe this is a fad? Are you thinking like this is for sure gonna hit? Like what is going through the process, like internal workings of the company? So Thomas, he already saw this category and his mind, it was already like, it's just a matter of time. He was hounding me at the end of 2020 and I actually did not believe this was gonna be a category. I was a MacGyver, I was doing my horse trough and the ice, I was doing the cold showers. And in my mind, I was like, why is anyone gonna be spending this amount of money when they can either do cold showers or do horse trough? And it wasn't until he invited me and I went up and I experienced it, I was like, ah, this is a cold dose that I'm not getting. And the way it simplifies my day where there's no setup times, I can get a predictable, reliable dose, I can go as aggressive as I want. I started seeing the feature set and I was like, okay, yes, over time, it's gonna formalize into an actual product category. But I was, I did not believe it in the beginning. And at the time, like how much research is out there? How much research are you guys doing in terms of the benefits? Cause it seems like everyone's an expert today, but at that time there was very little research. It was a Wim Hof. Wim Hof was the main, I think, proponent. And that was enough for me. And I think a lot of early adopters, relative early adopters, right? Cause people have been doing this forever. But I think the new phase really started with Wim Hof. When he got big, it exposed it to the masses. Yes. And then his, I think, his own study that he did, proving that he can regulate his immune system, how the cold was a powerful impetus for him to get over his tragedies. It was kind of like, oh, this is worth exploring. Yeah. It's so funny to think about it from my perspective where before I even got introduced to this door of like the Joe Rogan's, the Wim Hofs of the world, which leads you down like a black hole of just doing the research. The only people that really had ever done this or the only time I had ever done this was in Florida when I was doing this cycling event. And we ended up spending a day at this like athletic, like the pure athlete gym. And this gym had everything. But it was only for like the elite athletes. We just got to go for the day because out of courtesy, we were doing this charity bike ride. And that was the first time I had done a cold plunge. And I like loved it. I like, I don't know why. Love the first experience, first plunge. I just loved it. And it was like this super beautiful spa type setting. It was next to a hot tub. And it was like, unbelievable. I was like, this is it. Like I really, and I felt it the next day. But then I had gone 10 years without ever sort of experiencing any sort of cold therapy at all. And then the Joe Rogan stuff starts going, popping off and then that leads me into this, this dark hole of, okay, research. And then it becomes like, which one do I buy? Right. And so the first step was like, okay, I could, I could get the trough and I could Uber Eats ice to my house every day and then add water. But that takes a lot of time and effort. And then so much time, not that fun. And then it also feels kind of wasteful. It's like a lot of people in LA don't, they don't have homes where you can just dump a tremendous amount of water. Like there's no yards. A lot of people don't have yards here, right? And so it's like the thought of doing that just also feels very wasteful. And then it's like, okay, do you want to just let the water sit there for two, three days? You know, let's say you're lazy, right? So you use it once, you know, like that's disgusting. And then a Titan LA. Mosquito breeding ground. Right. And then it's like the water's warm. So I'm like, that doesn't seem right. And then you just, you start walking through this analysis and you're like, wow, like there's really no cheap way of doing this if you want to solve for time. And then you get to the point of like, okay. And then the blue cube has this, like the water's always in motion. Why is that important? What's the thing there? If you don't have the water moving, you'll cold adapt, I think within a couple weeks, maybe a couple months, depending on the person. And then you're not challenging yourself. You're basically cheating. And even if you use a lot of ice, you're self insulating and you can move. If you move around, you're breaking your thermal layer and you're allowing yourself a more acute dose. But ideally you're in a body of water that's moving. That way the heat is constantly being stripped from you. And per second you're adapting that much more to the cold versus, I don't know if you have tried like some of the other competitors or even still water recently, but I've been doing it just to always go back to like day one. And it's night and day difference. Is it really? Yes. It's so much easier. So much easier. What happens that your body just heats up like faster because nothing else is in motion? Like the first 30 seconds to a minute, it's like, okay, this is cold. And then you get used to it. And then it's like your body doesn't have that fight or flight going off. Like you do in the blue cube where it's like every second you're like, crap, crap, crap. I've been doing this thing recently. We're all dunked my head. And somehow that breaks it all up for me. I don't know, it's probably really stupid. But I just do it. Cause it's like, when I get bored in there, I'm like, fuck, this is cold. I'll just dunk my head. I'll go underwater for a second. And it's like everything resets. I think it's the shock. It's like, I think your head's in shock again. So you kind of forget. You're like, you don't know how long it's been. You don't know the experience. And you do it, let's say after like a minute or two minutes or however long you're in. It's usually when I get bored and that usually is like 130 to two minute mark. It's in that window and then I'll do it and then I'll get bored again. I'll do it again. And that's how I know. I'm like, oh, I'm approaching six minutes. That's not a bad strategy. Yeah. What other science can you tell us? Like what's, when you guys think about this, do you guys geek out around the science? Do you care? I do. It's one of those protocols or one of those habits you can build that really is a primer to resetting your nervous system and your metabolism. I feel like it's the most elegant approach to that. And I think we're just beginning to understand all of the benefits. Obviously, you mentioned that you did it for athletics. I think a lot of people start there. I think the biggest conversations are gonna be around the mental space. I don't really think there's anything like the cold that can help somebody ground and completely reframe their perceptions around their hardships, around trauma, around the difficulty, even of the day ahead. You go in cold punch, all of a sudden, all the anxiety you had around whatever pressures you have in life, your perception around it changes. And there's other tools like, you know, shrooms, psilocybin, mushrooms, I think are really powerful, but they come with side effects or you need to focus more on titration. Whereas the cold, maybe the only side effect is like hypothermia if you overdo it, but it's really hard to miscalculate or have a bad experience from the cold. I think there's gonna be so much about the mental space. So the thing for me is I typically do it more if I'm in like the middle of like a fundraise or I'm trying to close on a building because it's like, I tell everyone here, it's like, it's the hardest part of my day and I'm choosing it. And so there's something really beautiful about that where like, I'll start my day, I'll do the 9 a.m. thing. And then the rest of the day, no matter how much rejection I'm getting from the world around this idea I'm trying to bring into the world, to Los Angeles, it doesn't matter. It's like, oh yeah, that's just part of it. Cause I've already done the hardest part of the day. Right, right. And so there's something about the mental piece for sure. It's really interesting. You're like choosing torture is also really interesting. So like, I've seen Joe Rogan, he'll do it for as long as he can, like 11 minutes, or like 20 minutes at like 33 or 31 degrees or something. Basically just above freezing. Give people like that are listening a window into where to start and then ideally, like maybe where you're at today. That video that you're describing, if Rogan knew what he knew now, I don't think he would do that again. The only reason why I say this is somebody approached him nicely online and was basically like, that was complete overkill man. Like you're a big influencer, a lot of people are watching you. Maybe you shouldn't go so extreme cause you can get hypothermia, you can die from excessive cold. So he was approached by some people and I think he kind of understood after that, okay, I don't need to be a Superman anymore in this. Cause it is a diminishing return. You don't want to do it to the point where you're spending half your day trying to warm up again. You want to get your dose, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger unless it kills you. So. There's a fine line and as far as like minutes spent in the cold plunge, what is that fine line? Where should people start? Give like the beginner's guide to it. Beginners I think in the fifties. 50 degrees. 50 to 59 degrees is an awesome place to start. And that feels like probably a cold ocean. Yes. For people, okay. Cold ocean and within a couple of minutes you start getting that fight or flight and then after maybe like five to six minutes you get a really nice dose. Depending of course if the water is moving, if it's still water, you may need to be in there much longer. But I think starting in the fifties is great. I think shooting for. 20 minutes, yeah. The research is suggesting this is Susanna Soberg's research, 11 minutes per week. In her cohort, she was also doing sauna sessions with those people for about 57 minutes per week. But it does seem like there is a threshold. You know, if you're at 59 or below Fahrenheit for 11 minutes per week, you're getting that metabolic activation or your body's going through some type of adaptive response. And you can break that up however you want. Yes. One of the hardest things that we had to do for this podcast is something so simple. It's to get chairs. We had been using these plastic chairs and they just weren't cutting it. And not only were they ugly, but they were also massively uncomfortable. So when we had the founders of Sundays on the podcast, it only made sense for us to get new podcast chairs. So they shipped us a set of count on me dining chairs. So if you're interested in upgrading your chairs too, whether that be in your house, office, podcast studio, or anywhere in between, check out the link in the description to pick some up yourself. We can't recommend Sundays chairs enough. To go back to the people if they're new to it and they're in the 50 degrees, how long should they be in that before they go into the 40 degree area? Or does it even matter? It's all based on your journey and your tolerance at that time. I think like I had one customer I was talking to yesterday, he started in the 50s and his goal was, okay, each week, I'm gonna go down to the degree. You know, I'm gonna give myself that grace. And he started in the high 50s, now he's at 44. And he likes it at 44. And that's where he's at. We experimented a little bit. We did this thing where I think we put it up to like 50 or like 48. And the beginning shock is still there, but, and we all do six minutes. At the end of it, the six, it's better at a lower temperature. We kind of concluded that. Like we all felt better at a lower temperature for six minutes. So then we did this thing where we did it in like the 30s. Like it was like 38 degrees. And it was like interesting where the initial shock was more than the 42 degrees. But then it was kind of the same. Like after the six minutes, it didn't feel very different to like the 41 degree range. Interesting. And so now we just keep it in the four, like it's like, I think 41 right now. And it'll fluctuate between 40 and 42. At blue cube, I go in every day with Cheyenne and she's a bodybuilder. And she loves the cold because of what it does to her body and the priming it does. I definitely think the colder temperature leads to a more acute fight or flight. And definitely, I think temperature matters a lot in terms of if you want to get that maximum dose. But again, this is for someone like you have to build up to that, right? You can't just do that your first time. Right. And then expect everything to be fine. You may have a crazy response. When it comes to like the different versions you guys have, how many different versions do you have? Why the different versions? So we have the Malibu inline and the Corechill for now. There may be some other products that we release. The Corechill was inspired. We wanted to create like almost like a sub brand, something that could be pure residential. It doesn't have as much chilling power, but something that we can have just for residential purposes. The Malibu is almost like our overbuilt flagship type of product with the full deck, full chilling horsepower. And then the inline, this was putting the guts in line with the tub. We were inspired by like cars. That's why we called it inline. Inline mode, yeah. Yeah, inline motor, exactly. And some people appreciate that look. Okay. More than the Malibu. And you can change the temperature on all of them? Yes. And does any other company do that? Or are you guys the only one where you can change the temperature? You can change the temperature on the other ones. They just have not embraced flow rate as much as we have. We really embrace that because we think that that contributes to that pinnacle cold exposure experience. Other companies, they haven't pivoted. I'm sure it's going to be the standard. Yeah. Yeah, I hate it by the way. The flow? Yeah, I've grown to love it, but at the beginning I'm like, fuck this. Like I just, yeah. Because you definitely feel it. There's definitely a difference. You definitely get an intensity factor from it. And give people a window into the price of each of your existing units. So we start off with very high-end Malibu at 27,000 right now. And then our core chill is at 16,000. So that's pretty much our range. We want to go down market eventually, but just given our capacity constraints and wanting to build with integrity, we're kind of stair-setting that. And then for the people that I get text all the time which cold plunge do I get and why, right? And then I'm the guy that becomes like the spokesperson for the blue cube. How do you view that? What do you say to these individuals in a way where it's like, they're all good. They're all different. Here's why, like what's the sales pitch or what is the differentiator? Besides the flow, obviously the flow. But if you're someone who's just buying one, you don't even know what the flow is for. You're thinking the flow is just for filtration or you're just making things up, right? So no one at that level, that buyer doesn't understand the value of the flow yet. Maybe in a few years, they will over a few months. Right. But for that person that's just like shopping based on price, what do you? On price, it's, you know, we're not cheap. We're not billcheap. It's hard to convince somebody just based on price alone. But as far as other feature sets that I think were really competitive in ergonomics. So no other company has a tub that's really slanted where you can set, get into a set and rest position, comfortably extend your feet out, comfortably do a full plunge, easily accessible at 28 inches tall. Like some of the other companies either have to high step too much or you're gonna be low stepping. For the lower end models, the guts are completely exposed on the side. And it's not made out of, you know, schedule 40 piping. If there's any, let's say, failure points in some of the other machines, it's an arm and a leg just to replace the parts versus having unions, easily replaceable pumps or chilling motor if something were to fail. So I think as far as serviceability, accessibility of the parts, ergonomics, and overall experience of the coal plunge, we are superior. If someone values that, they're gonna get a blue cube. If they're looking for the most cost effective way just to start doing cold exposure, I would say, yeah, we're not, we're not gonna provide that value to them. What do you think the future is for the company? Like, what are you guys working on now? How are orders coming in? Is it bananas? Cause obviously we're still in a craze. It's definitely bananas. And the next step is getting a larger facility, getting more machinery so we can have our manpower be more effective and efficient on the job. If someone orders one today, how long would it take for them to arrive? 12, 14 weeks. Yeah, lead time is definitely a killer in this. Cause of all the craftsmen, the wood. Yeah. And so we want more machinery. Again, not to eliminate the hands-on but to allow them to do more. Yeah. How big is your space now? The manufacturing space? It's around 3,000 square feet. It's not that big. Oh, that's small. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, we started pretty humble. Wow. Like, total. Totally needed a bigger space. Yeah. We like to say we're in a barn in Redmond. It's not really a barn, but it feels like it. Yeah, pretty much. I want to go down the rabbit hole of athletic performance. I know we were talking a little bit before this. You know, I got introduced to cold lunges in college when I was a swimmer and we would do our practices and then we would go down into the physical therapy room where they had a cold pool and we would just sit there. And I think it was in like the 60 degree range. So we were down there for like 15 minutes at a time. And so I always associated it with recovery. And I'm curious if there's a benefit to doing it before a workout, just as there is doing it after a workout to reduce inflammation and swelling. From my personal experience, yes. From that of several of my customers who are either like Olympic athletes or professional basketball players, it does seem like it increases both stamina and power. And... If you do it before. If you do it before or if you're just on a schedule of doing it. Why? There's a lot of, I think reasons perhaps why, but it does seem like the mitochondrial biogenesis or uncoupling that occurs where your mitochondria gets so freaked out it literally, they literally divide and you have greater density of brown fat or even browning of muscle. So you just have more mitochondria density in your cells as a result of cold plunging over time. And if mitochondria are the battery centers of our cells, it kind of is logical to conclude that we can have more energy output as a result of that. So for power, for stamina, I do think there's gonna be evidence suggesting that it does increase those. I would imagine though, that you'd also need some amount of time after leaving the cold plunge before you start working out, like you need time to warm up and loosen up your muscles again because like if you go, you obviously don't wanna go from a cold plunge into a workout because that's a great way to injure yourself because everything's so stiff and you're still trying to recover from that. And I would have to imagine like, at least from my own experience, like at least like an hour or two in between just to get the body loose enough to work out again after that. Depends on the person. It could be even as little as like 10, 20 minutes. How's your snap back? Have you paid attention to like you go into the cold plunge and then you're in that state of being cold. You feel it going through your veins. You're trying to adjust. How long does it take for you? It depends on the day. So like I've done it on cold rainy days here and it takes a lot longer because I don't have the residual heat from the sun to warm me up. And on those days, I will be shivering for up to 45 minutes after the cold plunge. On warmer days, I can be fine within like 20 minutes and like start to feel like myself again. And so it really like cuts the time in half depending on the temperature outside. But I've done it personally where I think I cold plunged and then I two hours later went for a run and I felt great. And so that's where my own like two hours for a workout kind of like, okay, I need to give myself ample time afterwards. That's kind of like my snap back was between just trying it out before a workout as opposed to after a workout. Keep studying your body. I think it's different for everybody. For me, it's around, let's say I cold plunge, I come back in, put on the gym clothes or whatever it is that I wanna work out in, start stretching. Yeah, around 15, 20 minutes, I would say my body's in a position. It still feels cold, but I'm able to start working out for sure. And I think everyone's gonna be different to your point. Some people may be really stiff. I'm probably like 30 minutes, I think, probably 30 to 45. It's cold, I'll be shivering for a while actually. And if it's like hot outside in the sun, it's still maybe like 30 minutes. Owen's like immediately, it's amazing actually. He's like fine immediately. It's kind of crazy. Even with longer plunge sessions? Yeah, I feel like he's cheating. He's just like, I'm shivering and he's like, what's going on? He's like, oh, I'm gonna go get a coffee. Like he's like fine, super weird. Some people, I don't know if you have Scandinavian descent. Yeah, some people are just really cold adopted. Wow. By nature, their ancestors had to deal with it. Some people can't even put it in their hands. The blood flow is so bad. Is it because of the receptors on your hands and your feet? That and your body's making trade-offs. So when you're in that level of cold, warming up your heart and your core is more important than your hands. So your body's literally like, oh, we don't need hands here. We gotta keep the core warm. And then my hands used to hurt like crazy. They still do, but I like it because I noticed my hands run hotter. So like my ability to tolerate cold in my hands has increased dramatically from incorporating it into the plunge instead of being out. Cause I used to do that too. My hands used to hurt like crazy. Okay. How did you and Thomas first connect? We connected here in LA, Santa Monica specifically. I was in another startup in time, cannabis-based startup, and he was going through a divorce and my co-founder was neighbors with him. So he was literally walking outside. He was looking kind of depressed and disheveled. And my co-founder was literally like, hey man, is everything okay? And he came over and he's like, you know what? Everything is not okay. I'm going through a divorce. This woman's taking all my stuff. Like, you know, I'm being cut in half, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, how are you guys? Like what's up? Right. And then we told him about what we're doing and he comes from a family of entrepreneurs. He loves startups. So immediately he was like, oh, have you thought about fundraising like this? Have you thought about the customers like this? And we started driving and he would come over and like cook dinner and just talk business with us. And after that cannabis startup kind of folded, we raised capital, but in 2020, kind of all cannabis investment dried and we were going to be partnering with Ease and some of the larger delivery companies. And they all kind of chopped all of their officers and were exposed for burning money. So we decided not to continue, but that's how I met Thomas. And then he kept hounding me that he's building this coal plunge in Oregon. Come visit him, come visit him, come visit him and finally I did. Wow. What's some of the most interesting science that you've stumbled into? I think we're going through evolutionary renaissance. I think Darwin is almost like coming back in a very big way and smacking all of us in the face. I think the hormetic stress response is by far what this decade I think is gonna be known for. Hot, cold, fasting exercise in combination is I think the ultimate biohack. Of course, good food, sleep, sunlight, family, relationships, whatever it is. But I feel like practicing the hormetic stresses on a daily basis is where it's at. Interesting. Do you have any anecdotal information on how your client's life has been impacted? Like just from a relationship standpoint, so not recovery, not just from a purely like I'm a better human type thing. I'll show you the video after this. Yes. I had a customer give a testimony on Monday. He calls it, this is a game changer. He thinks it's a complete game changer. His family's convinced that he's a much better human being. And he thinks that the cold is so powerful, like if someone is going through this every day, it fundamentally changes your chemical makeup. Again, he's not quoting science, he's not saying this is guaranteed, but from his experience he's like, my chemical makeup is clearly different. Like how I narrowly perceive the world is different. My wife would attest to that about me. She would say the same thing? I think I literally just became a better husband. Like I was easier to get along with. It was weird. Like I wasn't stressed as much. Yeah. You know, I think as entrepreneurs than you're doing, when you're trying to like, you know, hit home runs, let's say, when you're going for it, there's a lot of stressors on your life. There's something about cold planning that resets those stressors for you. And so then life doesn't seem nearly as bad. It seems more fun in fact. And so I just became like more fun in her eyes. That's fascinating. It's really interesting. For me, I just thought I was like, like things didn't really bother me as much, right? Cause it's like, I just cold plunge. There's nothing worse than that. Whatever happens now is, it doesn't really matter that much. I'm not in cold water freezing. You know, it's interesting. And so I'd say she'd agree. I love how she noticed that in you too. I think this goes back to the whole, I think the mental change is going to be what's talked about. Cause yes, for athletes and all that, the change is profound and it can save careers. It can elongate their ability to be competitive, whatever it is, but having your wife say, hey, you know, Diego's different. Diego, he's listening to me more. He drinks more wine now. He drinks more wine now. Nothing phases him. Yeah, it's weird. 100%. That's what's going to be talked about. When you think about what Tony, so Tony Robbins has been doing that, do you know his routine where he'll dunk himself in hot and then cold, but it's a quick dunk and then he's up. It's almost like a hole in his backyard that he has where he just goes in and out. But it's quick. He does it like three times, I think. Hot, cold, hot, cold or whatever he does. But every morning. But it's quick. So I would say maybe a collective 10 seconds of dunking. And then he's done. He's been doing it forever. He thought it was like a game changer. I guess the question I'm trying to get at is, is there any difference of being in there for what Tony Robbins does? Which is like a quick, quick dunk and then he's done. Or someone who's like doing it for six minutes. What have you seen in terms of like the time? Does that really matter at all? Cause the shock is the same. The shock is the same. I think it depends on what temp. And it depends, cause you probably experienced this too where you know you got your dose. I don't know when that happens for people. It could be 20 seconds. It could be 30 seconds. 40, it could be up to a minute. But you know when you're like, I got it. Like I'm good, I'm ready to exit because even if I stay in for another minute, great, but I already feel completely reset. So I go for that feeling. When that feeling is, I think it's different for people. But at like 37 degrees, people should be getting that between 20 to 40 seconds. So I would say a dip and then jump out is probably not nearly as effective as like sit with yourself for at least 20 seconds. Cause that 20 seconds is enough to, you know, your adrenaline spikes, the whole reset occurring if the temp is low enough. So that's interesting. Cause we always talk about it amongst the team where it's like the first minute to a minute and a half absolutely sucks. And then after then it doesn't really matter. And so are you suggesting that maybe we should, like after that minute and a half is over and we start to like get used to that feeling of cold. Like, you know, should we just hop out at that point? Again, it depends on, you sound a lot like Thomas by the way. Cause for Tommy, it's like after the two minutes, he goes to like another where he gets adjusted. And for him, it's like after four to five minutes, then again, the adrenaline spikes and it's like a new wall or a new thing you have to overcome. And I definitely think if you have the capacity explore that, you know, don't take what I'm saying as the gospel or what anyone's saying. Cause it's very individualistic. Yes, it is very. It's almost like weight training, right? What is the right weight training routine? Well, it's based on your strength, how long you've been training, what your goal is. I feel like cold is kind of the same way. So as a business, obviously we're experiencing a moment in time where the cold plunge is becoming a thing. People are aware of it. There's enough people talking, influencers talking about it. How do you guys approach marketing and selling, you know, you're specific, right? You have competitors, obviously. And so how do you guys think about that? What is the overall strategy around just getting these into more homes and more gyms, more spas? Our next campaign is we want to take, we have awesome customers already and just showcasing, you know, the high end in their homes, how it does complete your sauna, your pool set up, your spa set up. I had an architect, several architects tell me they think every high home is gonna be complete only if it has pool, spa, sauna and cold plunge. So it's almost gonna be a standard for the high end home and I think highlighting that standard and showcasing that standard in beautiful homes, high end residences and resorts is something that we need to do much, much better job of. Does it more like marketing, social media, more videos, more? Yes, and more generated content. Yeah. And showcasing, you know, people using it in the high end homes. Yeah. All right, Dave, what else do people know? What else should they know about Blue Cube? What's the future look like? Where can they buy one? Visit us online, bluecubest.com, call me up anytime. Thomas I think picks up literally straight from the website. We could do a FaceTime over how these things are made and in general I think everyone should just start, you know, cold shower and slowly graduate. Yeah, you guys were great. I'll share the story, we'll wrap on this on how this happened. So I wanted to get one and so I called just the number on the website because the only question I had was will it fit through a normal door? Obviously, we have a studio here and so I wanted to make sure it fit because so many times these things don't. And so I get on the phone and I think Thomas picked up and then he passed the phone to you and you guys are like, tell me everything, where's it going? Oh, you have a studio, what's the studio for? And then I was like, guys, I just wanna know if it's gonna go through the door. That's it. And you're like, no, no, where's it going? Show us pictures. And then we were on the phone for maybe like 20 minutes and you're like, oh, you have a team, you gotta get this one, you gotta get this one. And I'm like, I didn't call you to be upsold. I just called you to see if it fit through the door. And they're like, what's, you got a logo? And I'm like, oh my God, what is happening? And then it all worked out and you guys gave me a sweet deal. How did you find us speaking of? Yeah, no, I think I had just narrowed it down to the two I was gonna look at. Maybe just the one, I just liked the look of it. You guys had a cool look and then the flow, I realized the flow was important. And honestly, the thing that I was looking for the most was, obviously there's a team. To me it's like, it's only fun if you share these things. And so the temperature was a huge one for me. Being able to adjust the temperature, I thought was like game changer. Because you don't wanna force someone to, I guess get into something that's, maybe you can handle what someone else can't. So that was the thing I was looking for. And I was like, oh, they have it and they seem to know what they're doing. Well, I'm glad you found this. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for coming on the podcast. Yeah, I appreciate it. No thanks for having me. If you made it this far, I bet you loved the episode. So you should join our YouTube channel membership for only $2.99 a month. 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