 Hello, this is Carl Ackerman, the host of History is Here to Help, and today I'm with two lovely people, Eric Gray and Lynn Rhodes, and they have been working together to produce two wonderful, what I would call social historical books about baseball that are very lively and very wonderful. You know, it's so lovely to be here with Eric Gray and Lynn Rhodes. They have both, they've collaborated on writing and producing and being a business manager, as it were, in terms of the two wonderful books. And the first thing I'm going to ask, you know, both Eric and Lynn, but perhaps Eric first, is tell us about, you know, basically your two books, and then we'll go from there. Thanks, Carl. These two books are collections of stories from people all around the world about their experiences that in one way or another touch upon baseball. While they are sometimes involved play of game kinds of things, they're far more often human interest stories, stories about family, stories about why they love baseball, stories about funny or sad things that happened at baseball games. It's that it's, let's just say the book went in a far different direction than the way I expected it to go. You know, I should have precursor all this by saying that, you know, Eric and Lynn have had, you know, long careers with the Department of Labor and been very successful in their careers, and this is a new career for both. And Eric and Lynn, both of you, my question is, how did you come to this? Because, you know, it seems a bit different than your former life where you were helping people in many different ways with the Department of Labor, but this is, this was certainly a change. So why did you get into this? What made you interested in this? And this is a question for both of you. I'll lead off with this one, so to speak. Lynn and I were at a ball game in 2011 with our daughter and our friend. And baseball being what it is, it gives you the opportunity to sit and think, just look out at the field, chat with your friends, you know, whatever. It's the pace of the game allows it. And I just happened to idly ask them, what was your favorite moment at a game? What was your favorite game or favorite moment at a game? They gave me their answer and I just went and asked a bunch more people about their favorite moments. And really that's how it began. I just began my quest asking people for their stories. And Lynn, I'm gonna follow up with you. So, you know, Eric began to do this. And so what was your role? And, you know, how did you feel about this? And did it ever interfere with you going out, going to a Giants game? Because Eric was home writing, so I'll stop there. I think the thing that Eric spent the most time doing, and it was really eight years between when the quest started and the first book came together, is wherever we were, whether it was at a ball game or at an airport or at the San Diego Zoo, Eric was talking to people that had some indication that they might be baseball fans. So I just had to kind of stand by and my role was mostly to just gently remind them sometimes that we had to be someplace. But mostly it was Eric collecting the stories over that long period wherever we were. So at some point, I think we decided together that it was time to stop asking for more stories and actually start working on putting it together as a book. So I think I had some role there, encouraging Eric to finally start putting it all together and figuring out how we can get it published. So that's a good segue into both for Eric and Lynn. And I'll start with Eric. So what are the stories that you are especially fond of? And I'm sure you're fond of all these stories and there's a large collection in both your books. And if you happen to have a copy of the books near you and you could show them to us today, that would be great. But what are the key stories? And of course, because the name of the show is History is Here to Help, launched by my good friend Jay Fidel. What were the stories that you think have a historical significance? And of course, in some ways, the history of the United States is marked by baseball and baseball marks the history of the United States. I mean, you think of Jackie Robinson as a clear example, but I'm gonna stop now and let you guys talk about the wonderful stories in your two books. Thanks, Carl. This is my first book. It's called Bases to Bleachers. And this is my second book. It's called Backyards to Ball Parks. And for the record, Carl has a story in this second book. You know, asking to choose what your favorite stories are is really quite complicated. In the course of collecting the stories, I've got by now almost 2,000 stories from over 15 countries. When I think about the stories from historical context, and I wanna be clear, I've never set out to write an academic scholarly book. That's not what this is. But in collecting the stories, some of them turned out to be kind of a historical significance. So for example, everybody knows that the movie, everybody knows the movie, The League of Their Own. Most people know that it is based on a real league. And in fact, I have a story from a woman who played in that league. Her name is Mae Belblare. And Lynn and I were lucky enough to actually meet her a couple of months ago in Phoenix. There's a story from a woman who, Japanese American woman, and she played baseball in the internment camps during World War II. And, you know, it's kind of crazy to think about it, but you know, that was the motivation for doing this baseball thing is because they wanted to quote unquote normalize life in the concentration camps. As silly as that seems, the fact is, it's a very interesting story. She played in that league. You know, there's a story from a guy whose grandfather was shot down in World War II and captured by the Germans. And he's convinced that a little baseball glove, chachi, like a key ring, ultimately saved his life. You know, these stories are just in there. There's an entire chapter in the first book on the Negro Leagues, which, you know, it's a variety of stories, one or two from actual Negro League veterans and others who just saw Negro League games. I mean, it's a variety of stuff. Like all the chapters, you know, are kind of have a variety of stories that don't necessarily neatly fit into what the title is. One of the things I really wanted to do, I was focusing on is getting stories from people who watch baseball in the 20s or 30s or 40s. And as we all know, you know, those people are not with us in great numbers anymore. So I came across the idea of getting asking people to give me stories that maybe their parents or their grandparents told them. And it's in a chapter called Stories Handed Down. And there are some, a number actually of Jackie Robinson stories in the books, as well as stories like somebody being at the game when Babe Ruth made his famous point, his call of a homerun shot, or being at the game when Lou Gehrig retired and he made his famous today, I'm the luckiest man on the face of the earth speech. So I'm actually getting goosebumps now when I think about that. So there are stories of significance. There are stories, there's a couple of stories that really have to do with race, but how sometimes race can be bypassed just because of love of the game. So let me ask a question to Lynn now also. So while Eric is writing these stories and what was your communication like about these stories? And I have to precursor by saying that I was there when you were trying to name the second book. And it was one of the most interesting, I was all ears. And I listened to you guys go back and forth about what the book name should be and why it should be this. And I'm glad that you finally came to a conclusion, but what was it like having these kind of wonderful discussions because it's really a credit to both of you that being married, that you have these kind of wonderful discussions about these two books. Well, I got to say I probably heard almost every, just for the first book, Eric collected over 1200 stories. So he had a lot of decisions to make when he put 250, 270 of them in the first book. I probably heard almost all of the stories at one time or another when Eric received them, especially ones he was really excited about and definitely participated in helping him whittle them down because there were some that were very similar. We talked about the stories. We decided which one was maybe the better story for whatever reason. It wasn't always the best written story. It might've been the one that had the most interesting interesting topic or the way it was put together. So I heard all the stories. I probably talked to Eric about most of them. And again, we talked a lot about how to put them in the book. And I think I made a bunch of suggestions, some of which Eric took and putting the book together and chaptering the books. And yeah, the titles of the books, that was a project for the village. That went out to many people where we got input from a lot of people. And there were nuances too, right? There were nuances in the titles. I think we both liked the alliteration of bases to bleachers. So, and a friend of mine suggested a collection of personal baseball stories from the stands and beyond. I mean, bases to bleachers conveyed kind of a range of where stories would come from, right? And I liked the alliteration and wanted to do that again for the second book. The fact that the second book also was a pair of bees, backyards of ballparks. I mean, that wasn't intentional. We tried lots of things. And for a variety of reasons, we just happened to have another pair of bees in the title. Yeah, well, we did some research on, you don't want to use somebody else's title, you don't want to. I was the one that did a lot of the research to see what would work and what didn't work and what had already been put out in the world. Well, as I recall, when I was in your living room, you were talking about bases to bleachers too and playing off that TWAO and TOO. That was one of the possibilities, yeah. So I'm glad that you came to a resolution at all. But before I go on and I ask you, well, let me ask you the question. But let me ask you first is, so if you wanted to get these, one of these two wonderful books, is it possible to get them on Amazon? How do you get these books? Yeah, the books are available online, whether it's Amazon, Barnes and Nobles.com, any online independent bookstores, they will order the book. But I also want... I was gonna say online, you can get them. There's a number of wonderful websites that participate in funding independent bookstores. So I'm trying to remember those. However you want to do it is fine. But I also want to say that anybody who wants for what it's worth, anybody who wants a signed copy can get the book directly from me. So I don't know, Carl, if there's a mechanism for putting my email address or whatever, but or you can contact me through my website, which is basestobleachers.com. So anybody who wants to get the book signed, again, for what that's worth, they can get the book directly from me. Also a lot of the online sources are identified on the website. So we have about 14 minutes left. So what I wanted to do now is just to tell some of the stories because that's always the sort of the highlight of anything, of any book, to get sort of a taste of these wonderful stories. So Eric, I'll probably go to you on this one. Okay. There are so many stories and they're so reflected even in the chapter titles. Like there's a chapter in the second book called To Catch a Ball or Not because sometimes that not catching a ball is far more interesting than the story about catching the ball. Each book has a chapter on family. In the first book, it's called Generation to Generation, Baseball, Family in Baseball in the second book because I knew that that was so, such a core chapter, the first book that I knew that had to be in the second book as well. And it's called The Bats and Balls and Gloves, That Bind. One of the stories and I have a few stories in each book. Lynn has a story in each book but honestly, one of the stories that's most important to me is how this didn't even take place at a game. Lynn and I were watching the game on TV when Matt Kane threw his perfect game. And during the course of this exciting event, we started texting with our daughter Rachel who works the press elevator at the park. And then we wound up texting with David, our son David in DC, who knew we should be going to bed but how could he have gone to bed? Not only watching the Giants throw a perfect game, what was going to be a perfect game, only the 23rd in history but this was our favorite player, Matt Kane. So, the importance of the story is not the perfect game. It's how this game of baseball once again, connected our family. This magical game has been a connection to our family that has continued now through the next generation. And if there's a third book, the story about how we took our two-year-old granddaughter to her first game, that's already written and will be in a book. It will be in the third book. Well, Eric, let me just interject there. It sounds like you have another book waiting to be written about family values of baseball. Okay, continue on, sorry to interrupt. Well, no, that's all right. Again, each book has a chapter on baseball and family because that was one of the most common stories about having a catch with grandma or going to a game, the first game with dad. It was just such an important part of so many of these stories. And another thing that I discovered in getting these stories, as I started to group them, and as we say in California, the chapters kind of happened organically because the stories just fell into a series of themes. And one of the chapters, again, it's in both books, different titles, is what baseball means to me because I came to quickly understand that baseball is a lot more than just, oh, I love this game to a lot of people, people who really just feel like their lives were changed because of baseball. And that, to me, was, I guess, surprising. I just hadn't really thought of it in those terms. I mean, Carl, I couldn't tell you a million stories. I could tell you the story about my friend who was in a bar and having a drink with someone and didn't know it was Ernie Banks. And when her friend told her it was Ernie Banks, she went back and got his autograph and said, wow, you must have been a great basketball player. Everybody thinks so highly of you. I mean, it's so hard for me to think about which of these incredible stories is a story in the first book about a guy in Texas, his name is Frank, who as COVID was kind of beginning its descent. Winding down. Winding down. His wife just kind of set up having a catch with people in the neighborhood and people showed up and there was a reporter there and it was basically, what a wonderful story to kind of celebrate the semi-return to life as we knew it. And you've written about, you talked about a league of their own, which is correct me if I'm wrong about women playing baseball, especially during World War II when the men were off fighting, but you've also written stories about, as you mentioned, about the Negro Leagues when the African-Americans were prohibited from playing in the major leagues as we knew it because of the many laws that segregated in the United States. But what I wanted to ask you, but you're very inclusive. You even included or talked to the person from the Negro Museum here where I am today in Kansas City, Missouri. And so, tell us about how you got these stories but almost as importantly about those stories that you found particularly near and dear because of the history of your fathers or grandfathers generation. Yeah, well, let me start with that Negro Leagues. Well, it wasn't a Negro League story, but let me start with the story you're referring to. So, a guy gave me, for a story to be as people will say, bookworthy. And I never used that term, but other people did. Oh, my book, my story isn't bookworthy. It's got to be more than just, I saw Hank Aaron's 715th home run and for those of you who don't know what that is, that was the home run that beat Babe Ruth's all-time home run record. So, if you tell me I was at the game when he hit that home run, but that's all you tell me. Well, good for you is a great memory, but it's not, there's nothing bookworthy about it. Through a connection, I got a story from a man who talked about watching the game. He was a 12-year-old boy in Georgia and he talked about watching the game on television and he goes on to talk about the fact that some people think records are meant to be broken. Other people think that records are not meant to be broken, especially by a black man. And he said in this house, there was no question about wanting this record to be broken. And as Hank Aaron hit the home run and ran the bases, Bob ran the bases with him. He ran from his easy chair to the bookshelf, to the television, to the chair, or whatever it was, the sofa, and back to his chair. And that is just a remarkable story. And of course, this man turned out to be the president of the Negro Leagues Museum, Bob Kendrick, who spent 30 minutes with me and Lynn when we were visiting there. And it's just a remarkable story. And the story continues on to when he met Hank Aaron at a game when they were honoring him and how he had Gates Ribs with Hank and his wife, Billy, and how it's something he'll never forget. There's a story from my uncle and there was never going to be a chapter in the book about watching on TV or listening on the radio. And I, because I got a couple of them and it just wasn't, you know, it just was something I wasn't going to entertain. My original thought was you were in a game. And my uncle's story was about how he and my dad and their other brother were crowded around a radio in 1934 in their kitchen as they were listening to the second ever All-Star game. And Carl Hubble, who is a Hall of Famer, struck out five American Leaguers in a row. And my uncle said, I knew it was a great thing but I didn't realize how important it was. And he juxtaposed it with watching Jacob DeGrom and his All-Star debut strike out three batters in a row. And he said, that was great but it made me realize how unbelievably important and memorable that game was 80 years ago or, you know, whatever it was. And in those are the stories that just kind of, they just make me smile and they still give me the chills when I read them. Do you think that this is both for you and Lynn that your attraction to baseball came because you were New York, you had teams in New York, Eric, and of course Lynn comes from one of the great baseball studies in Chicago. I mean, what is it that made you two particularly attracted towards baseball? You know, because I think that's sort of the nucleus before you can write a book like this. And in addition to that, I have to say about both of you it's always nice to see you, you know I've gone to games with you at Candlestick, for example before Oracle was built. And, you know, you have a whole, I mean, you know Lynn dresses up and she wears earrings, you know that are SF joints and of course all both you and your children are dressed and you know attractive San Francisco paraphernalia but what made you guys really geared towards baseball and what was it your origins in these two wonderful cities of New York and Chicago? Lynn, you could feel this one first. Well, okay, I, you know I never went to a ball game in Chicago but I used to watch the games on TV with my dad mostly on the weekends because he works six days a week and at that time the Cubs only played day games because there were no lights at Wrigley Field. So we watched a lot of Cubs games on TV. I lived on the South side. So I thought I was a White Sox fan but I probably knew more about the Cubs because that's what I watched with my dad on TV. But I've kind of lost interest as I was getting older when we came to San Francisco and our kids we took our kids out of taking our kids to the game. And if you want to go from there, Eric. Yeah, I mean, I grew up a Yankees fan because that's all there was at the time. And when you have Mickey Mannel running around in the center field and hitting O'Bruns what more could you possibly need? I became a Mets fan. I went to Mickey Mannel's retirement game. That's a story that's in the book. And then when I moved out here to San Francisco I would go to games, you know a couple of times a year when the Mets were playing the Giants and Lynn would come occasionally but I'll tell you how Lynn got involved with baseball. It's in the introduction of my first book I talked about taking my kids to their first game and how Rachel brought about 200,000 books with her because she knew how bored she would be. And she never read a word. The only thing she read was the scoreboard scorecard I bought and the scoreboard and how at the age of 14 she started working for the Giants. And there is no doubt in my mind that Rachel's love of baseball is what got Lynn involved. It's different now even than it was 25 years ago. But when your son likes baseball that's like duh, well, of course he does. When your daughter likes baseball that's a whole different level. And that's when Lynn started getting involved because then we bought a season ticket a season pack season ticket package that we went to 15 games a year or whatever it was. And that's where Lynn's love of baseball emerged. It was really because of Rachel's love of baseball. And that's a good segue into the last we only have a couple of minutes left but I wanna let you guys finish by talking about so what does Rachel do now? And has she had any interesting experiences at Oracle Park? Well, yeah, I mean she runs a press elevator so everybody in the park knows her. The announcers, the former players anybody who uses the elevator she has a story in each book about people she's met in the elevators. And one story involves Orlando Sopeda and the other story involves Jeff Kent and they're really great stories. His story in the second book is in the chapter ushers and vendors and bullboys, oh my. David still loves baseball, at least until COVID I went every year to take him to see the giants generally lose to the nationals but he and his wife and his daughter are giants fans and as I said before, taking Juliette to her first game was spectacular. Yeah, we make sure they're outfitted in Giants gear, Carl. That's correct, right. That's okay, that'll do it. So we have only a minute left but here's what I wanna ask you and if you could make your answer sure cause I wanna leave you the last word, what's next? Eric, what's next, Lynn? Well, for me, as I said there might be a third baseball book but my next project is one of a similar nature. It's about people's concert and music memories because music is just so important to me and it's been a major factor in my life. With 22nd left, Lynn? Well, I assume my role in relation to the books is gonna be the same with that book as with this which is listening to the stories, helping Eric figure out which ones are the great ones cause sometimes he doesn't realize it until you get some feedback and I do all the... I keep all the books and I make all the other stuff happen. So just keep on. Lynn's role in this is far greater than I can explain to you in a short period of time. I mean, she didn't collect the stories but man, her involvement in so many facets of these books is huge. Thank you, Eric Gray, Lynn Rhodes. This is history is here to help and your host Carl Ackerman. Thank you very much for a wonderful discussion and everyone should go out and buy these books. Not only if you love baseball but if you love family and you love life these are the books to buy. Thanks Carl. Thank you Carl for having us. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.