 We should probably have that. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, get on the book out of these. And this is that. Awesome. Thank you, Mike. So, can we get it right here? Let's see. Let's have to shift everything. Yeah. This is what we're talking about last time. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Just a surprise. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, this main speaker. Paul. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You might want to say that apologize to the store. Yeah. Alright. Thank you, Dr. Okay. So the agenda, because of this. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Yeah. Okay. No. You're gonna be a I'm gonna be a I'm gonna be a I'm gonna be a I'm gonna be a I'm gonna be a I'm gonna be a I'm gonna So you're gonna call the planning commission meeting of November 29th the order Thank you, folks We're all coming tonight our agenda It just so you know what we're doing. We've got public comment and we've got the main street revitalization project introduction and community input meeting and then Discussion of municipal master plan, that's what is on tonight's agenda I'm sure you folks we're all here for the main street the revitalization project in discussion. So we'll get into that in a few minutes. But before we start, I want to introduce the planning commission. I'm Michael Bryan and I'm the current chairperson of the planning commission. And I'll let Terry, I'll start with you. Terry Ziegman. John DeLebriere, vice chair. Susan Eddy, I'm currently the secretary. Pal is the pouring. And Paul. Paul Dreher, the planning, planning and zoning manager. We've also got with us tonight, the public works commission. And I'll let you folks introduce yourselves. I'll start with Ryan. I'm Ryan Lambert, I'm the project manager with the public works. Corey Berman, secretary. Lawrence Bibliki, chair of the public works commission. Gregg Haas-Dellert. Also with us are folks from CCRPC, the regional planning commission, as well as VHB, the engineering firm that is the consultant on the project. And those folks will be speaking and doing the discussion of Main Street for us in a few minutes. So let me see, also with us, we've got some staff people with Ray Coffey and Heather, our economic, community and economic development person. Officer, Jesse Baker, our city manager, was going to be here, but she had a family medical emergency that she couldn't make tonight. And also with us in the back, I see Paul Sarn back there. And our mayor, Seth Leonard, must be inconspicuous, but he's back there as well. So thank you all for coming. We'll start with public comment. This is an opportunity for anyone to address the planning commission on any topic, not on tonight's agenda. And when wish to address the planning commission, I got to be careful in what I say here, but I guess I'm going back in time. But anyway, planning commission on any item, not on tonight's agenda. Hearing none, we'll move into the next item, which is a Main Street revitalization project introduction and community input. And I'll turn over to Paul to lead this discussion. Hi, so I'll give you a brief history before I turn it over to BHB. So I worked for the city as a consultant when we did the Gateways form-based code project. And in that process, we began envisioning what the streets would look like, the gateway streets. And we, through extensive community visioning, we came up with some images and some graphics that showed the street redone essentially with wider sidewalks, utilities buried, and travel lanes brought down in terms of size. Basically, the street was revitalized in the vision of the form-based code. That was reiterated and amplified in the Transportation Master Plan project. So the community has been working since 2014 with this kind of community vision of what Main Street could look like or should look like. With the development that has been part and parcel to the adoption of the form-based code, immediacy of that need became more apparent when we saw conflicts with power lines and buildings. So that brings us to where we are now. We became aware of funding sources that were available through USDA, ARD, and the State Revolving Loan Fund. And we were, at one point, we were asked if we had any projects that would be eligible. And this project has been on our minds and on the city's mind for, again, four years or so. So it immediately led to the front. With that, we went to City Council and asked City Council for initially tacit approval to begin pursuing the project. And they agreed to that a couple months ago. The next step was identifying an engineer who was pre-qualified and getting an initial estimate on a 30% completion document so that we could apply for the grant funding. We selected BHB when we had a proposal for a preliminary engineering report. We went to the council and asked for approval to move forward with a State Revolving Loan Fund loan, which is where we are now. So this is our first meeting. We've a kickoff meeting, so to speak, and we will be taking your input so that when we proceed through the next three months, our timeline is to be complete with this preliminary engineering report and 30% documentation of the final project by April. We'll be involving the public all along the way and getting input from you, but this is really the start of that process where we'll be unleashing BHB and our team here, Ryan, our project engineer and project manager and P, our engineer on staff to do the work that will be the project engineering report. So with that, I'm going to introduce Dave Saladino. He's our lead at BHB and he's going to walk us through the initial parts of the project. So before you start, Dave, so the process is you're going to go through the project, give us an overview of it, and then we'll take comments from the public. Two things, if you want to ask a question or give a comment, please state your name and also everyone here, if you would, if you have a chance to sign the sign-in sheet on the back podium back there so we know who was here tonight. Thank you. So up here, we're calling this the revitalization project and kind of convene as a presentation of the project. As Paul alluded to, we're still very early on in the process. So my hope tonight is to not to do a lot of talking, really do more listening. This is, as it's called out here, local concerns meeting. So we're going to give a little bit of the background how we got to this point. What does the project, what's the project area? Where are we looking? Get into some of the idea of the kind of innovation. I think one of the ideas that we're really trying to do and Paul has been great to kind of keep bringing up who want to keep thinking outside the box. And so what does this, what does Main Street want to look like in five, 10, 20 years and really trying to pump for some kind of forward thinking. With that, so we're going to talk project team, we've already kind of gone through that a little bit. Just touch on the scope that we're working through the project area, where it is we're focusing our efforts on, a little bit of the existing conditions. What does Main Street look like today? Touch on some of the previous studies at last to where we are today. And then next steps, that's really where we want to talk and listen kind of what are your thoughts for the future for Main Street. So with that next slide is project team. This is kind of a tip of the iceberg. These are the main players in the team. Mentioned the folks in the city. Jason and Eleni from the Regional Planning Commission. Jason is here. Eleni is. She was here. Was here. And then several of us from BHB. There's a number of other sub consultants that are on their team as we'll get into whether it's a pretty comprehensive project. So too much to list on this slide, but these are the main folks involved. In terms of our scope and schedule, I won't go through all of this. We essentially kicked this off probably less than 30 days ago, jumped right in. We've got, as Paul alluded to, a fairly tight timeline, really driven by the development of an engineering report and an environmental report for this section of Main Street by late March, really early April of 2018. That may seem like a long time, but given all the things that have to happen, it's a fairly condensed timeframe. So we're here tonight. Our survey, we've already started the survey doing all the boundary research. We'll be out starting next Monday, surveying the entire site, entire corridor. Those of you who live on Main Street, you may see those folks out doing a survey, as well as some drill rigs that are out there. You won't be able to miss those. So there will be a little bit of traffic disruption next week, probably the next two weeks, as we'll be doing some borings to get a sense of what's underground. Anything nasty that we don't want to know is underground, where's ledge, and so forth, so we can better calibrate our design. We'll be doing environmental resource review. Next step, the next major step for us is to develop some alternatives. So to look at different ways, how do the different intersections handle traffic? How are we handling bicycles and pedestrians along the corridor? What are the lanes, the lane widths, and so forth? So we'll be then back in probably a similar public forum in January to present those alternatives and get a feel for which kind of package makes the most sense. And then wrapping that up into an environmental report and preliminary engineering report in late March. So it'll be quick, you know, you blink and we'll be towards the end, so. Here we go. This mouse's card's too flat. All right, so the project area here, oh god, my pointer here. So this, just off the slide here, you can see the circulator down here. This is, these are the railroad tracks. North is up here. So basically coming from the Colchester town line, this is the schools, the school grounds here. So coming from the Colchester town line, down Main Street, just to that bridge over the railroad tracks. What's shown here, we'll touch on a little bit later, is essentially all of the publicly owned space, all the public right of way, within that quarter from Main Street down to the bridge. This roadway is classified as a class one town highway, which may not mean anything to you, but it provides a lot more flexibility for what the city can do in the roadway, as opposed to being maintained by the state. And they have got big plows, they often require lots of kind of wide pavement. So that's a real plus, allows some flexibility for bulb outs and who knows, roundabouts or whatever within the public right of way. The quarter itself is about 4,000 feet in length. The right of way, which is kind of publicly owned space, so from edge to edge, is roughly 66 feet, we're pinning that down more closely, but it's a fairly wide right of way. About 15,000 cars per day, two signals at Spring and Tygen Street, and then a mix of land uses on a quarter of a dissipation. Yeah, stay here. On this image, the second notch down on the left, that has public right of way, is there a screen that goes through there? It doesn't look like there is any image, but maybe there is. Is that right there? Is that from the form-based code that was? Yeah, that is from the form-based code. That is, you took that graphic from the form-based code drawing. That's right. So, yes, that is definitely from, that was an anticipated future right of way. Future right of way, yeah. This is a fairly long block along here, so ideally there's opportunities as the development happens to accommodate some more expand the grid a bit. Can you see that again? The question was this notch right here in the fuchsia. There's no street there today, but it's part of the form-based code process. This, these lines are based on boundaries that were set as part of the form-based code process to identify how the street should look and feel in the future. It's all the publicly owned, all of the city owned right of way. The idea at the time, the planning efforts, and Paul correct me if I'm wrong, was that this was a place where a future street could go as redevelopment happens, and so that was articulated through this notch there. Okay, so what is the project? And we've talked a lot about it. It's a fairly, it's fairly suit to nuts, and so everything above ground and below ground at this point we're assuming is fair game. And so as we look above ground, the street itself, landscaping, streetscaping, all of the stormwater, opportunities to expand stormwater treatment and stormwater infiltration and other green stormwater elements as those opportunities present themselves as we dig up the main street. And then below ground, we've got all the kind of wet utilities, water, sewer, stormwater. And then the idea is to also put the overhead utilities underground as we've got the entire quarter dug up. Sounds much easier than it actually is. It's gonna be all kinds of phasing and opportunities to make sure we maintain traffic flow, maintain all of the other kind of day to day operations while this happens. So what we're doing right now is kind of capturing all of these elements in a preliminary engineering report, as well as an environmental report looking at what types of environmental impacts there are associated with these improvements. So a little bit of background. Several planning efforts led to this. Paul alluded to those. There was a main street corridor study, transportation master plan effort, form-based code. All of those kind of focused on a desire to create the more vibrant and balanced street. Pedestrian scale streetscape, dense infill, mixed use. You can see an example as those who've driven up main street see the kind of the transformation starting. A number of funding, potential funding sources, a project like this has lots of, there's lots of opportunity. Once it's kind of a bit of a snowball effect. Once somebody is involved, other kind of agencies, it matches a lot of kind of available funding resources. So this is kind of a short list of those kind of sources of funding for both the design and the construction. So just to kind of snapshot of existing conditions, what's out there today, you all know this corridor, just to highlight a couple of things. We've got lots of wires above ground. We've learned pretty much everyone who's on these poles. We've got some high-voltage power going, three-phase power, kind of a trunk line running green mountain power. These poles are owned by Fairpoint and they've got three or four of these lines. So we're in the process of meeting and we met today with two of those talking about how would it look to get them underground, how many pipes do they need underground and so forth. You can really see how that kind of could change the just the look and feel of the corridor if you were to Photoshop those out of that image. Fairly wide travel lanes, I think it goes up to 14 or 15 feet in certain places, which can lead to higher speeds and you don't really need all of that space for just single direction travel. On-street parking for the most part on both sides, no specific bicycle facilities noted on the corridor. Number of these interesting offset intersections. We've kind of been curiously wondering, there's maybe four intersections that all seem to be about the same offset as you move up and so how to accommodate traffic and pedestrians going through these intersections will be a challenge. This is part of the designated truck route. The mix of land uses out there today. Fairly narrow, these are four and a half to five foot sidewalks, which are fine kind of in suburban spaces, but in a more urban area, typically look for something a little bit wider. At the north end, we've got this transition coming in from the interstate. As I mentioned, about 15,000 cars per day. So just to take through very briefly these previous studies, this is kind of where conversation, one of the earlier stages, this was three or four years ago, Main Street Quarter Plan, quite a bit of outreach, public outreach was involved in developing this study, lots of kind of investigation of what the future wants to look like on Main Street. The recommendations for Main Street were fairly robust, so looking at signal upgrades, pedestrian accommodations, improvements for safety for vehicles, new crosswalks, particularly looking at ways, ensuring that there's kind of safe passage for folks going to school. Then a few years later, the Winnowski Transportation Master Plan was developed. This has kind of snapped out of all the recommendations from the Transportation Master Plan. This here is Main Street, Main Street Quarter. There was a lot of public outreach for this, or several community dinner events held over at the O'Brien Community Center. The improvements here, intersection enhancements, pedestrian crossing, very similar, kind of built on and furthered the work that was done for the quarter study. Also noted here, there's quite a bit of discussion that I see some familiar faces, but at the time, talking about how to accommodate cyclists on Main Street. As you can see, this yellow line here, this is Weaver Street. What was captured in the Transportation Master Plan is that this is kind of the main, all of these yellow lines are kind of the bicycle network, but you've got this main north-south cycling route on Weaver Street, you can see the east-west, and those tie in down at the circulator. So that's one thing we want to kind of continue that discussion. The opportunity here as it was advanced in the form-based code is to potentially look at having cyclists downhill, sharing the lane with traffic on Main Street, and then a dedicated facility on Weaver Street to get uphill, so you typically need a little bit more space going uphill, and don't go quite as fast as the cars on the way up the hill. I feel like I should turn this over to Paul, but this was the form-based code district effort. There was quite a bit of public outreach that led to this. This is essentially a kind of an enhanced sort of an aspect of the zoning ordinance to really prescribe what the looking feel of a certain area or districts in the city as redevelopment happens, how they should look. This here basically knows, this is our corridor, this is Main Street. You can see what we're basically looking at is two different colors here. So we've got an orange and a red zone here in between Spring and LaFountain Street. Those sections here, you may not be able to see, but the red block was just back and forth and some input from the community was emerged as kind of a slightly different place with retail on the first floor and then mixed uses above residential on the top floors. So that's, it's characterized as the urban storefront, frontage zone. And so as that block redevelops, it has a slightly different requirements for the uses within that block. The remainder of the orange sections here are urban general frontage, which these are kind of example photos. Again, kind of close up to the street lines, three to four storeys tall and mixed uses, but no requirement for retail on the first floor. For base code also had some kind of laid out what the streets want to look like, what the intersections, the configuration for those mid-block crossings and so forth. So we wanted to carry that forward and not reinvent the wheel of this effort. So that's essentially that kind of gets us up to where we are today. We're kind of madly running around and collecting lots of information during our survey, digging into the ground. But at the same time, we're also looking at what does the future look like and we're starting, we've got our landscape architects and engineers kind of doing some sketch work. We had a design session internally last week to just start to brainstorm some ideas. Some of those things included here that we wanted to just get out there. This idea of a kind of a well-balanced right of way. In this graphic, we borrowed this from the city of Burlington. Those of you who've been involved, the city of Burlington is also going through a very similar effort. They also happen to have a lot of 66 foot wide rights of way. So this is 66 feet of width and so this is something along the lines of what I think kind of makes a lot of sense as we balance, as we look to how to apportion out that 66 feet to we need to accommodate the 15,000 cars but not at the expense of pedestrians and other uses along the border. So this has 10 and a half foot travel lanes as opposed to what we have now up to 15 foot travel lanes on street parking on both sides in this vision here. A six foot tree belt up and down each side with five to eight foot sidewalks on the back side. We've threw out some ideas here. These are basically curbless spaces without really any delineation. We've got the delineation of different colors here. The idea, these are fairly popular over in Europe. We've played around with one over in Warren. If anyone's been to Warren Village, we had a smaller version of this, kind of shared space get constructed. So the idea here is that you don't necessarily define the street as a street itself, which causes traffic a little bit slower. This example may, as we talk about 15,000 cars, this may be, would probably want to have a little bit more kind of delineation between the traffic and the pedestrians. But something along these lines is certainly on the table. Integrating technology along the corridor, opportunities to put in some hotspots, some wireless, interactive, maybe wayfinding points, kind of really target kind of where we're headed. As we put all of the utilities underground, there's certainly opportunities to tie in Wi-Fi, to tie in fiber to all of these kind of hotspots, tie in the transit stations with the next bus kind of information as we're going up and down the corridor. This is an example here of a parklet. So utilizing some of these parking lanes, either temporarily or permanently for some expanded cafe space or outdoor space, and then potentially looking at some roundabouts along the corridor. So that's just really just to get some thoughts going, and those are some things we've been thinking about. Now I'd like to really listen. I mean, these are some of the thoughts that we've kind of, or questions that I have that would be interested. We don't have to stick to these. Questions about parking? Is it important to you to have parking up and down both sides of the street on Main Street? Does it make sense to have the cyclists coming downhill on Main Street, uphill on Weaver? How do we, this urban storefront district, so between Spring and LaFountain, how do we make that look different? Open space, the recreational space right now, there's not really a lot of kind of open kind of park space or little park, pocket parks. Is that an important element that we want to kind of factor in here? Other thoughts for integrating technology and kind of innovation and anything else that we have. So, okay. Thanks. So I think I'm going to start with the planning commission, see if anyone up here has any comments or questions. Go ahead, Tara. I would love to see really good biking facilities. I don't like the idea of having the traffic, the bike traffic go up one way and down the other way. I'd rather see it on both on Main Street. I think this is an opportunity for us to do it right and to make it safe, especially for kids going to school so more kids can get to school and more kids can walk to school. I was at a lot of those meetings and I know there are a lot of people here that were at the transportation meetings and there was a lot of people that asked for bike facilities so I would like to see that. And I'd also like to see it, I'd also like to see it. I mean, ultimately it should be so that if you can go back to that slide that showed what the streets looked like but bike lanes should be inside of where the cars are parked not outside and definitely like a shared lane with a car is just unless you're a hardcore biker like I am, people are not going to use a bike lane there unless it's a protected bike lane, especially with 15,000 cars going every day. So I guess the question back to you then is, if we were to set aside five or six feet behind the parked cars, one easy thing to sacrifice would be the landscape strip. Or the parking. Or the parking, that's right. And is that an option? I'm not just asking you, I mean, that's, you know, we have 66 feet. You're asking me, yes. Yes. Dave, I just want to point out that for the purposes of this project and this initial phase of engineering, we are dedicating a fair amount of energy to looking at the Weaver Street as a two-way bike accommodation. So a dedicated bike lane, two-way on Weaver. But not a protected bike lane on Weaver. Well, there's no parking theoretically on Weaver. There is. If you go, we've had this conversation last time at the Planning Commission meeting. So I'll just say it here now. If Weaver Street is going to be where the bike lane is, if you go on Weaver Street, especially on a Saturday or a Sunday when church is in session, there are cars parked everywhere that, as a cyclist, I wouldn't want to be on that road when all those cars are there. For one, people getting in and out of their cars and not paying attention and somebody opens their door while you're going uphill. So the last note is the form-based code vision did have the cycle facility elevated, protected from the car travel lanes. So it was a separated facility. But I think we'll end up talking about that a lot more, but the VHB is looking at all the different options on the table. And the Transportation Master Plan also said a protected cycle facility on Weaver. I hear you and I understand it. I get it. I don't think that the way that traffic is there now on Weaver, it doesn't really make sense. And then where does it dump you out? When you're coming downhill, if it's going in both directions, then where does it dump you out down here? Right here, and then what? And then there's nothing. So anyway, that's my two cents. Thank you. So just in the sake of time, because a lot of people here, and everyone here wants to say something, I think we have to cut back on the, getting in the weeds, okay? So anyone else on the planning commission? How about public works? Any comments or questions before we, go ahead. Yeah, I'll just agree with what Terry had to say. If you're thinking the Sharrows are going to accommodate bicyclists, you might accommodate a few crazy people like me. But if you want eight-year-old kids to ride bikes to school so their parents don't have to be taxi drivers every day, you're gonna need protected bike infrastructure. And I think this is a great opportunity to do that. And if you took out parking on one side of the street, I think that would free up a lot of space. And if every business needs a lot of parking, I really have to question that, because if you go down to the rotary, you see all of those restaurants there, the ones that are doing great, they each have two parking spaces in front of them. Those restaurants are full and it's not because of the six people who came in those two cars. So I think we need to rethink parking on both sides of the street. Thank you. Thanks. Okay. So now, yeah, we'll throw it out to the folks in the audience. And I'm not gonna be real stickler, but I'd like you to keep your comments to under two or three minutes, if you could, so that we can hear from as many people as possible tonight. My name's Peter Burns, I live and ride and also walk. I don't, I'll first speak briefly about pedestrian safety. I've crossed the street here tonight with a highly fluorescent jacket crossed right at La Fountain. And I walked to the middle of the road and the car was coming barreling down. I raised my hand up and it just went right by me. So, and that's been an experience over and over again. When there's no crossing guard, basically cars are going so fast, they disregard, they think crosswalks are a suggestion, not a law. So I would definitely like to see safe crosswalks that can be used both at night and in the day for people to, so that cars need to go much slower and pedestrians need to be recognized as valid participants on the street. Also, I agree that Main Street is the place that bicycles make the most sense too often in cities. It's let's put bicyclists on the side road, let's get them off where most, let's keep them away from cars who are the main users after all of the road, put them on a different road that's not used as much and they'll be fine. And I just don't agree with that. I think we need to recognize bicycles are a valid form of transportation that needs to be given as much consideration as cars. Thank you. Thank you. I see a hand back there. I think it's in Holland. Can I, I'm sorry, what, your name? My name is Sarah, I'm a recreational, I live in the Cascades University. There are actual networks that are writing networks in Holland that they're not on main roads. And biking is a really huge, a really big part of the culture there. And they've set up systems that are not on main roads and people are quite happy with that, so I'm just gonna argue on the other side. Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, sir. The first back, we have a 54-valve view. I'll just hit the bullets. Project initiative looks interesting, but when we reach the circulator, we create a great piece of infrastructure uphill, north, lose my compass direction at the moment. But we dump a lot of improvements at a choke point, the railroad bridge, and beyond. We don't have connectivity through the circulator and through the bridge. So my comment is, are we working with AOT on will we work with AOT on this project to see how we carry this project through over to Burlington across the bridge when that bridge needs to be rebuilt, replaced? Choke point also at the other end where we have tractor trailers turning off, and I'm not sure the street name, but you go uphill, it might need to lead up to Weaver, and they're going into what I'll call an industrial park. That's within the project area? I can see, yeah. So another comment is, I'm seeing increased residential development, increased density, more cars. So what's the build out in the project area over 20 years when we start to see the older homes come down and we're allowing multi-story, multi-car complexes. So what's the build out for peak traffic flow with this? I hear a lot about slowing people down, but how does a four-story apartment complex put 20 or 30 cars out into an unsigned intersection? And so for eliminating parking, there is a lot of residential parking, there's retail parking. Where do people park when we take parking away? There are a couple large parcels that are undeveloped off the project area and what's the build out for those and what's that traffic impact to Main Street? How does the project influence snow removal and where do we put that snow when we push it? And offset intersections? Is there a plan to align them or is it some middle of the road? Literally, we're gonna just keep them offset and I wouldn't support roundabouts on this stretch of road in this project. Thank you. Thank you. There's a whole litany of things you want to know. I think it might be good to address some of those. Yeah, so we'll definitely be looking at traffic protection for future traffic growth. I think part of the idea, both will probably be conservative and assume that everyone's driving 10, 20 years from now, but I think part of the idea here once you get the density, you then have a transfer population, you've got people biking, they can work downtown and live uptown. They're not, everyone's not getting in their car in the morning and driving. So we'll probably assume that there's lots of traffic being generated and make sure that whatever improvements work, but the hope is through this type of development that that doesn't happen. Well, we lost two single family homes on Main Street over the last year. That's what we want to call that six cars, four cars, eight cars. We got a four story and a three or a two story. And you can't tell me that because I've sat through many public meetings, no traffic impact, no traffic impact. Every engineer who's a traffic engineer who represents a development initiative says no traffic impact. You can't have eight cars go to 60 and not have a traffic impact with people trying to get out onto Main Street. So there are a lot of choke points. I mean, the initiative looks great, but a lot of choke points, I don't know how to resolve it, but when a couple more older homes go up for sale and someone buys them and we have another multi-story, if zoning and the form-based code all allow that, okay, but what's the future traffic impact when the residential age is out and we have more multi-story buildings and more cars? It looks like we have the off-street parking capacity for those projects. My concern is curb cuts and the traffic getting out into Main Street more and more pass-through is now blocked by curb cuts. So just real quickly, the curb cut issue was dealt with in form-based code through alleyways and limiting the number of curb cuts on Main Street. But certainly as part of the engineering that's all that we looked at, you did bring up a question about the choke points at both ends of the project. And I don't know if Dave, if you're familiar with what's going on at the Lonnie, I don't know if I can call on you, but there are projects, exit 16, that are taking into account the traffic on Main Street and there's projects planned on Colchester Avenue and Riverside Avenue and Burlington. It means scoping for the bridge. Scoping for the new river bridge. Yes, and that scoping hopefully will address all the connectivity with the bike and pants as well as traffic. So we're doing that project as well. This initiative is tied to those initiatives. Yes. Right. Absolutely. And I would go so far as to say that when we cross the river, we need a dedicated pedestrian and bikeway, not something attached to the bridge. That's, yeah, that's the scope of this. And the scoping of the bridge is gonna address all that, but. And then, while we will likely have positive economic impacts from this proposal, we will have negative ones. Negative ones during the project when everything is torn up. Positive ones. So, you know, if the workers can use food trucks that can park, that would be really good. They may not go to the restaurants, but they might be able to buy a burger off a food truck. And that's a way to offset some of the negatives that will all suffer while this project is built out. Thanks. Thank you. Appreciate your time. Anyone else? Young lady in the back there. No, you sell it. You sell it. You sell it. You sell it. You sell it. My name is Sally Tipson. I do have some concerns. I do have a business up on Upper Main Street. Parking is definitely an issue for my business as well as I'm sure any other small business along Main Street. And the gentleman made a point about the duration of the project. It doesn't take much to affect a small business. And if parking is disrupted for a day, two days, or whatever, where people can't get in, it does make a difference. And I think the project is very ambitious. It looks great. How are you going to pull everything together? You're not going to make everybody happy, unfortunately, but parking to me is definitely something important. And it's not like we have a parking garage up on Upper Main Street where parks can go into. It's on-street parking. And my business, there's too much competition where if people can't park conveniently, they'll go somewhere else. Thank you. Can I just throw up? Yep. I mean, what if there were a parking garage halfway up? You know what, let's say there were a public space, would you still, you would still want your street front, your curbside spaces? There's none. There's a... Hang on a second. In the back, you've had your hand up for a long time. Thank you. I'm Kateria Hawkins. I live on Main Street and I'm a little bit stuck. I'm sorry, could you repeat your name? Kateria Hawkins. I grew up in Eugene, Oregon, and spent time in Portland, Oregon, which are relatively speaking, very non-vehicle friendly places. And it seems like this is a great opportunity and responsibility for us to consider alternative means of transportation. And I really support and want to reiterate what those who have been promoting pedestrian and bicycle safety have had to say. And I think it's kind of like preventive medicine where even though we currently have 15,000 cars per day on these roads, if we build infrastructure to allow pedestrians and bikes to safely use the roads and not divert them to other roads, but to be a part of the infrastructure that we can then affect health as well as the health of our city and try to improve upon all of it and that it needs to be a factor and it needs to be really, really considered. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Yeah, you. My name is Kateria Hawkins. I live in Manuski. I want to speak for the trees and just encourage the city to, even as you're putting in bike lanes and putting in car lanes and parking to consider the trees and how they are fitting into this landscape because to me that makes a pedestrian friendly environment that you have shelter from the sun and the elements and it's beautiful and that slows cars down. And in thinking about that, I don't, you guys have identified various sources of money for this project moving forward, but I think the city in general needs to focus on how they're developing their urban forest. The towns around us, Burlington and South Burlington and Wilson have much more elaborate plans set out by their public works and their tree boards and their city arborists who are really out there sort of organizing and developing their urban forest. And I feel like Manuski is really lacking in that. And it's something that I think public works needs to step up to. Can I just add something? Sure. Thank you for that. Another idea I love is rooftop gardens, which is happening in cities all around the world. So I'd love to see you spot for that. Also integrating stormwater treatment into the infrastructures. Into the, yeah. So I'll just say that in the meetings we've had to date, I've been a very solid and staunch advocate for the trees as well. And we've talked about the kind of, not just the trees at a regular interval 30 or 25 feet that the form-based code called for, but also the proper treatment, that six foot wide green tree lawn and the proper subsurface treatment so that the trees can actually grow. In the projections we did for the form-based code project, we showed the trees at, I think, 10 years, 15 years, 30 years, and the crowns being fully developed. And we did that on purpose because we also, and I think the city believes the health of street trees is very indicative of the health of the kind of businesses, the economic vitality, the walkability, all that stuff. So we're definitely not letting that one slide. Yeah. I heard Flayton in the news team. And I'm the same vein, I'm thinking about lighting and how inconsistent the lighting is here in this town and how it really affects us. And I think that should be looked at as much as, just to point out, our lead agency of architects was the lead on the project we've been up in St. Albans, the new main street, sector of main street up in St. Albans that has a lot of these elements, a lot of the integrated stormwater. Lighting was a huge component of that. Really tuning the lights with the LED lights, you can really do a lot to tune them to the right spaces where you've got pedestrians crossing, you can turn them up a bit in between blocks. You can really play around with those. The consistent, the tree planter with the supporting infrastructure underground was also an element up in St. Albans. That is definitely in the toolbox for sure. Okay. Hi, I live on Bound Street, like at the end. Like this is a really great presentation. And I think we do, like as a cyclist and a driver, we do need to slow down traffic on Main Street for sure. My only recommendation would be to get rid of one of the parking lanes and open it up for cyclists, both directions. And if you have to, I mean, we have to remember from the railroad bridge to, you know, where the high school is and the elementary school, I mean, it's five blocks, you know. Put a parking garage, like two and a half blocks, like in the middle, like big deal. You know what I mean? Like people can walk like a block to get somewhere. I mean, I grew up in Minneapolis where unfortunately, like it's an urban area where you take public transportation to get somewhere, to go see a movie or go shopping. I feel like we're so lazy as a society that we like need to drive our kids to school, like a quarter mile, when you can just like walk them. Or like you have to worry about like walking five blocks to like get a bouquet of flowers or like, we become so dependent on automobiles that like we just need, like, I mean, I love the vision of this main street. And, you know, if we have to have a parking garage somewhere, so somebody walks two blocks, so be it. Like, I mean, that's the point of being in an urban area, I guess. And by getting rid of one of like the parking lanes, we can free up that 66 feet of space for bi-directional bike traffic. Thank you. Back. My name is Kevin Hough. I'm new resident to understee. I just lived here five months ago. I live in Canal Street. I haven't seen in your drawings, I don't know if I can bring that drawing back up again, but any lighting plans for the roadway. Also, I wanted to talk and see if anybody got kind of investigated potentially using, I don't know if anybody's aware of solar roads. But it's a way for your community to actually generate revenue by repainting roads, turning them into solar panels. I know it's a little ridiculous here in the winter. But there have been some installations. I think the first one happened in Georgia this year. In the United States, there's been a couple of installations over in France. And apparently one kilometer can power energy for 5,000 residents. I don't know if that's true, but if it is, that would be incredible. So I don't know if we're really looking at taking a look at technology and we want to be a community of the future, this is cutting-edge technology. Thank you. We have, that has come, that's on the table. We had a talk about it the other day. They actually feed up to it. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Maybe, Jess, I've got a question and a comment. I think parking, honestly parking is really important for a thriving urban center. That's pretty critical. Another question I have is in regards to funding and the timeline for the project after the April timeframe, where the funding sources are coming from and if there's any expected tax burden on new ski patients. And that's all I have. Well, I think that we can't answer that with any accuracy at this point. I think what we can say is that we won't know anything until we get through this first 30% project engineering report and preliminary engineering report. So this is a necessary step one to figure out step two, three, four, five and the variety of funding sources that will come to bear. So we don't know... It would be wrong for me to say give you some definitive answer because I simply don't know that answer. But I do know that there is a variety of funding sources that will leverage against each other or with each other, pardon me, so that we hope to have as minimal impact on the taxpayer as possible. That's an overarching goal. Paul, in terms of this process we're under now, was there a grant for this money? Actually, Ashley with the state is here and we've applied for a state revolving loan fund and if there's any specific questions that would be used to pay for this phase of the project, if there's any specific questions about the terms of the state revolving loan fund or how that gets applied, I think Ashley is the expert in the room. Hi, I'm Ashley Lockton with the Drinking Modern State Revolving Loan Fund. Full disclosure, I am also a new ski resident and my driveway is on Main Street. In the focus area, in the yellow on the screen. I have a vested interest in this project from a personal standpoint but also professionally. The program that I manage is we do zero interest loans for preliminary and final design to many types of public water systems. We also have a counterpart on the clean water side that does zero interest loans for wastewater and storm water infrastructure and so we partner together on funding projects like this. We are one of the few funding sources for preliminary engineering and final design in the state for municipalities. So essentially what we do is we provide funding that we like to look at as a bridge loan. Zero interest, zero payments are required while you're in the planning phases, zero interest accrues, the value of the work that you do ultimately gets rolled into what other funding source you end up choosing for construction. Like Paul and Dave alluded to is that there are lots of options open and because there are a lot of moving parts here you're looking at world development, you're looking at the state revolving funds, you're looking at CDBG, you're looking at pedestrian grants. It's all over the place and I imagine that all of the funders that come to the table are really going to be very excited about partnering on this. However the first stage to all of these funding programs is getting a comprehensive preliminary engineering report and environmental report done and that's where the funding programs that I manage in my counterpart Tom Brown are going to play. So we are currently reviewing the engineering services agreement from the HB to ensure that it meets our requirements and the end product is going to be something that can be used for those funding opportunities in the future. The timeline is aggressive. I am not going to deny that and manage expectations. This is a big project. It's a big undertaking. I hope that it can get done by March but we'll see and in terms of the funding programs you know unfortunately a lot of them rely on federal money and so I know my funding program we have money available essentially all the time. As I told Paul and Jesse and Ryan is if you build it we will come. I mean when you're ready to build this project we will have the funds available for you. I don't necessarily know but we can only do the water wastewater and stormwater. Hold this closure on that. But some of the other funding programs are at the whim of the federal government so that's the only challenge with a project like this. The benefit is that you do have municipal bonds that you are going to have to pass in order to do the project anyway so there are funding opportunities always available to you but in terms of the immediate cost of the project essentially is zero to the community because of the bridge loan programs and with those loan programs there are some subsidization available on the drinking water side there is I don't want to quote it I think it's $1,000 in forgivable amount on the planning on the water side and then on the clean water side there's some other amount of money it's more than $15,000 but it's not the whole amount so bigger than the red rocks smaller than whatever the phrase is but I guess for me when I pitch the program to me it's the bridge loan it's the zero interest and zero payments. Great. Thank you. And the project if the project doesn't proceed the loan would have to be paid back but we work very closely with communities to ensure the project does move forward and we kind of as I like to say give them a loan with which to go we put it out a number of years for the repayments to start so for example we would set the repayment to start out about five years so it gives a significant amount of time for the engineers to do their work for the planning commission for the public works department to kind of look at all the alternatives I know that this is a more aggressive approach than the five years but we've seen communities come up on the five years and are like okay we're ready to go for bond vote and for us that resets the time so if a bond vote if they go out for bond then it resets the time a couple more years so Anyone who hasn't made comments that wants to, yes Hi I'm Sarah McGowan-Friegie I live on Malletts Bay Avenue and I just wanted to say that one of the things I love about Wendooski is that it is urban but it's also very convenient so I think getting rid of parking would be a bad idea and I also want to point out that I don't think it makes sense to design a project based on how you want to act I think it makes sense to design the project based on how you know people will act so I think it's great you know to encourage more biking and walking but I think you just need to take into account people are people and they're going to act the way they're going to act Thank you You're on the back Hi, I've made a couple of things a couple of questions and also just a comment to disagree with the last comment that if we look at big cities around the world there was a point at which they didn't have subways or big bus systems or anything like that and things can change and things get denser and people do change how they behave with transportation so we have good infrastructure for bicycling we have good infrastructure for buses and things like that I think people will use it and people may drive less than we hope So a couple of questions one is are there plans for the offset intersections any thoughts on that that you guys have already looked at and then also are there places to find more parking on the side streets that exist now is that something that's been looked at is there some area that's like no parking now that maybe could be parking and then along those lines also where were we thinking of a parking garage that got to that point of an idea of where that might be located Can I quickly just address parking so as we see new projects coming along we'll take the two projects that are under construction now the current parking requirement is 1.25 spaces per unit in addition there's is it three parking spaces for every thousand square feet of commercial use which if you project out that there will be eventually development up and down main street they are all required to have that much parking we are going to be so severely over parked in Wendusky that truly the need for on street parking will go away because those are all dedicated parking spaces to restaurant uses to residents to businesses and they're behind the buildings so we are currently requiring any new development to meet that standard which is plus parking for employees it's a it's a more than generous parking standard when we originally proposed the form based code we said 0.75 spaces per unit but the end number became 1.25 so again if we continue developing and we develop the parking required by zoning behind all those buildings is going to be to give you an example the block it's a yellow block if you took away all the parking there so there's 22 spaces there and you build one building on that block that had the required parking for that building you would have 24 spaces so you would accommodate all those parking spaces that are on street currently behind the building per requirement of zoning so I don't necessarily think that the idea of a parking garage is the highest and best use of the land on this street I think eventually we might even have to revisit our parking standards because I think they're generous and they're going to produce a lot of parking spaces so I want to just address both of those because it just the facts have to be laid on the table that as development occurs they are developing it in addition to units and commercial uses they're developing corresponding dedicated parking spaces for all those uses so just put that on the table because it's not a businesses aren't going to be newly developed without parking associated with them Dave can I assume you haven't got to the point of looking at the offset set we played around a little bit with some roundabouts the offset does tend to work fairly well with the roundabouts but that was today so it hasn't really evolved that much but you will be looking at that yeah and any other thoughts we'll be able to do anything great I think when you're designing or planning the back parking lots if they could be shared or connected somehow with other commercial properties if you could get off 9-1 Main Street if you could get out on the backside it would be good if you could jump on the Weaver Street let's say mine there somewhere instead of having to go to Main Street to get back to your home so I think if you could design some of your parking if they could connect somehow and again when they leave they don't have to go back to Main Street or they can find another way to maybe get to the school or something or short cut off from Main Street and I guess I think they're planning crosswalks I think when I drive through Bridgens I really like driving through there because they have all those crosswalks through there in our park and it's a really nice that's a highly traveled road to get to New York but to slow down you take your time through Bridgens it's nice to see I think what we want to see here is even that little crosswalk on Upper Main Street where there's construction that they just put in I think there should be more of those they should be putting those in now anyways without the construction to slow people down and there's little flags in the middle and what not people can see that they're coming to a crosswalk they should be slowing down thank you I was just curious Paul if you said it was 1.25 spaces per unit is that a measurement that's comparable to other like Burlington I'm not sure what Burlington's parking standard is right now requirement is for residential units but I know that the current tendency is to continually be reducing the standard or eliminating it most developers know how many parking spaces their prospective tenants are going to use and will quite frankly develop what they need because they don't want to shoot their own businesses in the foot or their own residences so I think in some ways the tendency or the trend is to be a little more laissez faire and let the market determine what the and before I was full time here I was full time writing form based codes we would consistently put in about 0.75 and even there find that we were over parking downtowns so especially when you start to have misuse development and increased walkability increased other modes one of the things that didn't come up here I did sort of tend gently but we really anticipate having a conversation with Green Mountain Transit and having rethinking our public transit along the corridor to make sure that it's as efficient and think about our bus shelters and all that stuff as well in this process so that it's not purely oriented toward cars and cyclists or pedestrians but also public transit I'm going to go folks who haven't spoken then I'll come back to other folks Richard Laughlin what's the preliminary do you have a preliminary timeline for the beginning of the construction of the project I mean I know obviously you're still in planning stage but you have some sort of like rough kind of timeline as to when this might begin it would not begin before spring of 2019 the absolute earliest that's the best I can give you right now that's my thank you have you projected the construction period looking at two years, three years definitely not three probably two we haven't gotten that far just off the top particularly with getting the switch over the utilities also getting all the the water and sewer switch over and out all of that takes more time just really doing the right thing anyone else that hasn't made a comment yep everywhere but Main Street and Manuski we usually come down off of the fountain because I've almost gotten hit a few times going down Main Street from cars that were crossing traffic to turn into other roads it would be wonderful that we can have a dedicated bike facility more south on Main Street and not on Weaver Street because I think coming out of the connector coming off the bridge coming out of other or southbound traffic out of Colchester this would be the ideal route and also bring a lot more people to bike on those routes straight up and down the street currently I try to avoid the kind of the the speedway on my bike I go through it in the morning because there's no other way I can get down through and go across the bridge but I try to avoid it as much as possible and I also try to avoid Main Street so if there would be some sort of facility that I could take that off of the fountain and go straight down into Brallington so I can continue my commute now that would be great I think it would be a draw to the city in general and a great investment Thank you someone else, yeah Hi, my name is Joe Perron I live on Union Street and I understand that Manuski is considering becoming a certified local government in the near future and I was just thinking that as we're looking into infrastructure on Main Street another layer to this project might also be enlisting a historic preservation consultant to give us an inventory of the historic resources we have on Main Street I know that the Department of Historic Preservation for the State last completed one in 1979 that is by no means comprehensive and the highest concentration of historic buildings in Manuski Army's gateway corridors so it's something worth doing and seeing how this new infrastructure will interact with perhaps things of value that we want to keep in the city Thank you Anyone else who hasn't made a comment Yes, sir I just like Greg Ruman, I live on West Lane as the man next to me mentioned technology I know that there's a lot of companies in the area that are looking to kind of continue the trend of businesses and I don't know if there's any plans currently whether it's a product on the telecom or a similar fiber I'm always really frustrated you only have a single cable provider choice in any city I live in and when we live in Burlington they were wonderful to work with and anytime I talked to someone from there it was always a pleasure as opposed to some of the other companies I've had to work with so I'm just wondering if that's in the discussions as we look at bearing cable lines and making sure that there is flexibility or getting them in to potentially provide that path forward for continuing technological growth in the city So I'll just quickly address that we have been meeting with the variety of providers and there are, there's pretty much everybody runs up and down Main Street and we are charging them with we're tasking them with bringing the facilities their facilities underground so it's Fairpoint, First Light, SolverNet VTEL CenturyLink Comcast They're they're all there Level 3 and what we've said to the ones we've met so far is when we're dug up when we're putting new conduit boxes underground for you we want you to think about innovating think about the most progressive design that you can think of we want to think about 100 years into the future, not 5 years into the future so we met with Fairpoint today for example and they're talking about Fiber into all Fiber, not Cobber, but Fiber going into all the stubbing off the main line that runs up and down the street and Winnicki happens to be not only a conduit the street is not only a conduit for cars it's a major conduit for electricity and all those utilities so it's an opportunity and that's the way we've been sort of putting it to them and they've been I think happily stepping up to the plate and saying this is great we're excited about rethinking what's going on on the street and how we handle our technology and it hasn't made a comment then I'm going to go back is it Rick? Rich? definitely it's a bad way of an alternative bike facility that runs south of the school complex and runs down on the east really side of town that could come back around to the circulator that might alleviate some of the conflict between the need for parking on Main Street and just having a loop around to the east and back around there is an undeveloped property that parallels Bellevue behind the homes of Jason to the school property I don't know what it can be used for but it would bring this off of Main Street in the beginning of the project and we might be able to loop back around and do a less congested less heavily trafficked road and still get us out of the connection back to the circulator thank you anyone else? I just have a follow-up question about the telecom question is Burlington telecom part of the conversation because it was my understanding that they're at um so are they part of the conversation for this project at all? I'm not aware of them having any lines on Main Street but for future conduits we can certainly start the conversation with them in the downtown master plan or the redevelopment downtown included a huge conduit without a bank that as you guys are well aware that the city owns and anyone can move through with the city's permission so that's how we're able to get Burlington telecom in the new city lights building so as long as the Main Street corridor connects to that system I wouldn't think there would be much issue in getting any new telecom that's nearby of the Main Street corridor nice name anyone else? sure Ray we have two dead end streets there three dead end through school and we have George Street and there is some follow-up like they're talking out there that there was a way to connect you know Main Street to George Street which is a dead end and now that should be looked at especially if that property decides to develop because that's a big long property that takes like 381 Main Street I think that probably runs all the way to George Street that's only by one homeowner though when that comes up that might be something to think of so that people going to school could find on the east side coming up the back way having to use Main Street can I add one more? perhaps this has already been thought of but as we narrow the width of the streets and if we eliminate potentially parking on one side I'm wondering if bus traffic if the bus would be completely when stopping blocking all traffic because they would have no place to pull to the side stopping traffic completely during bus stops that combined with the increased density of the area and presumably public transportation traffic could be more problematic it would seem it still remains to be seen but what I would envision is you know you lose a couple parking spaces but if you don't have a parking if you don't have parking spaces it becomes a bigger problem exactly then you have nowhere for the bus to go that's a good point thank you anyone public works commission after listening any other comments? just to follow up on that I think if the driver had to wait a few seconds it might be okay it would improve the level of service for bus riders if they didn't have to wait before they had to pull back out into traffic you can see all the cyclists fly by them on a rainy and traffic so if there's nothing yes I was just going to say one more thing I love the comparison to Pergenze and I think that one of the things that makes Pergenze so gorgeous is its plantings they have a ton of annual plantings that go up in some perennials as well and again I loved the idea of parklets I think Mount Plinyard has some great parklets which I think they did in collaboration with Vermont Technical College who has a landscape design program that I think they collaborated with and to advocate against the city to focus on that green scape and the maintenance of it and what that would take to make it beautiful it's just interesting in our design sessions I think twice we brought up on our screen in our office for Pergenze we distributed and brought that up as an example that's why we brought that up as well I think it is an interesting model because of all of the through traffic and handles while still kind of maintaining the character yes right okay yep you can and then Joe just to follow up on the plantings and the parklets and all that public art would be really great too that would slow people down a little bit Joe I would like to point out that on Weaver Street it's one of the largest religious congregations in the state of Vermont and there's no parking on the west side of Main Street there's no handicap accessible entrance that people can use because everyone enters that building from the east side of the building Mr. Mayor you're pointing to the sky just to comment maybe a little context too first of all it's really exciting there are communities that have these kinds of conversations and nobody shows up and we even have meetings where we're having important discussions right and people don't show up this isn't a decision project that's being considered in isolation this community invested a lot and put itself really on the line to redevelop its downtown to create a thriving economic heart and a heart for a community to build around and this community already had a great heart right in our neighborhoods in the meantime what we've tried to do is zoning this protect those neighborhoods and the character that exists there also building off of the momentum that started with the downtown from the building standpoint it helps alleviate tax burden on the people who live here single family homeowners creates vibrancy and we hope creates a little landscape people want to live in in the future zoning came along the amount of feedback we received and the ideas that we talked about in terms of what things should look like on main street and everywhere throughout the community was heavily heavily impacted by public feedback and comment so this is the start of a conversation and really encourage folks to email other ideas as they come about maybe Paul I don't know if you want to share your email address at the end it's appropriate whoever that should be but that feedback is really critical in that engagement it's really critical deciding how we move forward these are connected conversations that are not just happening anywhere there's been a consistent stream of public influence and really guidance to us about how we should be executing these things and what we should be looking towards and that's what we're trying to bring into fruition here is the feedback from the master transportation plan and the form based code planning processes execute that that people want to see so thank you all for taking the time to come out and participate to the community where you wouldn't be here but what I encourage you to please please stay engaged in the process and continue to give that valuable feedback as it is listened to I will certainly accept emails my email address is pdrayerdrehver atmydisd and what I'll do is as the comments come in what we did when we did the form based code or the gateways project we put them on a spreadsheet and the project team will review them and address them so that we address them through a variety of means but we'll also bring them up in future public forums so that we're making sure we honor our community's input so in terms of public meetings about this it's going to be happening with the planning commission the public works commission yeah the what we're going to do is the planning commission and the public works commission will jointly convene all public engagement meetings we anticipate having another bigger public engagement in February or January and I think we'll probably have one towards the closing date of March that one will be more about here's where we got to but again the planning commission will have as a regular standing agenda item updates for this project so if you come to the next planning commission meeting or the next one after that or any of them there will be an update telling the planning commission members where we stand with the project and what if there's any small or decision making needed to be happening so I would keep my eye on the agendas for the planning commission if you're interested in this project but again this commission is to do projects of this nature so we're going to house it with their authority vested by state statute so I think so planning commission meetings in December they're going to be do you know the dates just December 13th we won't be meeting twice not meeting on Christmas we're giving people a day off December 13th and then in January it's we decide on the meeting on the 28th too of December we did you said no you said you were available I think so you said something about kids being out of school okay well let's reconsider that but in January is it second second and fourth Thursday second and fourth Thursdays of January Public Works commission one of your meetings schedule I believe we're joining you on both of those December and then we are the second Thursday for December we're joining the meeting with you so we would encourage you to come to those meetings as always time for public comment and for comments on issues that we're discussing Jesse I want to stay in the loop and watch them on channel 17 if I can be back to writing this is a side note thank you to channel 17 who's live streaming this right now that allowed me to watch the beginning of the meeting from the surgery waiting room at UPM so great resource use it if you can't if you can't be here in person and provide comment through Paul thank you so yeah to echo the mayor's comments thank you all for coming tonight again we encourage you to continue to attend these meetings or watch them on channel 17 you have comments concerns, issues you can email Paul and he'll get them to the planning commission if you google Manuski main street or Main Street civilization if you google that the city's website comes up first we'll have the project page on the RPCS page up by the end of the week so there will be opportunities to the link for comments and presentations and information there anybody before we adjourn this anyone having last comments then we'll probably see you on 13th I imagine right thank you all for coming if you could take a minute to sign your name on the way out much appreciated thank you