 We are less than a week away from the batley and spend by election and the contest seems to be getting increasingly dirty on the one hand, as we talked about on previous shows, outriders for the Labour right are getting ready to blame a labour defeat on supposedly racist and homophobic Muslim voters. Those are lines coming from both labour sources and centrist journalists at the same time. There are some genuinely unsavory activists piling into the constituency. Earlier today, a video from Byline TV showed Labour candidate Kim Leadbeater getting confronted in the street. This is where I live. This is my community. Don't come here and shout at me in the street. The Muslim community of Batley and Spen deserve better than this. They deserve better than this. I'm asking you, are you going to support Muslim parents? Are you supporting us? Kim, I'm here. Answer the question. Why are you running? Kim, I'm here to talk to you. Are you going to support Muslim parents who don't want their children to learn about you? So speak to this gentleman. We are going to chase Labour at every step. Now that was a really, really horrible video on every account. You've got to remember Kim Leadbeater, her sister five years ago, was killed in the constituency by a far-right activist. So to have a group of men aggressively haranguing her in the street is really, really horrible to watch. At the same time, some important background there is that Kim Leadbeater is gay, and so you've got these people shouting at her, are you going to be backing LGBT education in schools? Obviously, it's outright homophobic, but also she's clearly being targeted because of her own sexuality. So absolutely appalling, disgusting. It's also important that the man harassing Kim Leadbeater isn't, in any way, representative of the Muslim community in Batli. In fact, he's not even from Batli. So he's called Shaqil Afsar, and he was one of the leaders of the anti-LGBT protests in Birmingham in 2019. There's actually an interview with Irwin Jones of him from those protests back then. So he is not a representative constituent. He's a reactionary and a trouble maker. Now, the original tweet from BylineTV identified Afsar as a George Galloway supporter, who's obviously George Galloway who's standing against Labour, ostensibly to try and get rid of Keir Starmer. Now, that was also repeated by Keir Starmer, by the way, that this was a George Galloway supporter or part of his campaign. Now, that has been pushed back against by Galloway. The extremist who harassed my Labour opponent today has, I'm told, previously been thrown out by my security from one of my public meetings. He is a provocateur. However, despite that attempt for George Galloway or by George Galloway to distance himself from this activist or this provocateur, speaking to BylineTV, after that incident, Kim Ledby to told them or said that Galloway had in fact been laughing on the other side of the road. Sadly, over the last sort of 24 hours, things have become slightly less civil. It's been a tough day today, I have to be honest. We were out campaigning outside one of the local mosques and suddenly there was a big group of mainly men, I would say, who started shouting at me in the street, trying to say they were asking me questions, but they certainly wouldn't give me any chance to answer any questions. Some of them not local. George Galloway was at the other side of the street laughing and I was extremely intimidated and this is not good for our area. This is not what people need. I don't need this, my family don't need this and our community doesn't need it. That is not how politics should be done. We need debate, we need discussion, we probably need disagreement, but we don't need abuse and we don't need intimidation. But I am worried about some of the more sinister elements of other people's campaign, shall we say, and it's very upsetting to think that other people think they've got a right to come in and cause disruption and so division. It's the last thing this community needs. So what we're seeing here is on the one hand, as we've talked about on previous shows, an obvious attempt by Labour outriders to tar the general populace of bat liars reactionaries, but we're also seeing, as you saw from that clip and that response from Kid Ledby to that, this is actually becoming quite an unpleasant by-election in many ways. That scene I think everyone who watches this show will agree was appalling. How this fits into a broader narrative about the by-election is a difficult question though. Lots of people saying different things online, lots of people who've been on the ground and here I'm going to defer to you, Aaron, because you were there last week and in fact you have a feature on the by-election published today on the website at navaramedia.com. I do recognise checking that out. So having been there only a week ago, Aaron, what's your reaction to the video we just showed of Kim Ledby to getting harassed essentially by an activist who wasn't from the constituency, but is trying to tap into something, I suppose? So on the one hand, you've got obviously the backstory about the school teacher in Batley. I'm surprised in a way it didn't happen sooner, even if Galloway didn't stand. You've had issues with the Reform Party, Lawrence Foxtron, I got there. I believe, we're talking on Friday night, I believe Tommy Robinson is going there tomorrow. There is a large minority population, their large Muslim population, not just Kashmiri, also Gujarati. And so it could be something of a flashpoint for the far right. You had BMP councillors in the area I think 15 years ago. So it's going to be a very volatile situation of course, the tragic death of Joe Cox in 2016. So I should say the murder of Joe Cox by a fascist. So it was always going to be quite a potentially politically volatile situation, especially like I say with the teacher more recently. My experience when I was in Batley and Spen was really good. The people I met worked really nice and that included people who were going to vote Labour, people that were going to vote for Galloway. I even met some ex-Labor members who were going to vote for Galloway under no illusions I should add. And I tried to put that as best as possible down on the piece, because I think a lot of the chivalettes and the kind of the assumptions that are made around this are really very frustrating. One is, oh, why don't local people understand that Galloway is a Charlotte and he's in it for himself? Many of them think that and they're still going to vote for him, or it's all about Palestine. Yes, Palestine is one issue, but this is also a place which has seen its magistrate close, its prison close, seen its A&E downgraded. The minute you get into Batley as a town, Batley and Spen has several towns in one village, the minute you get into Batley as a town, you realise the roads are really shocking. And it's like all of those really important things for those people, which really matter, are completely sidelined by the national media because they want to talk about the personalities. And people have pushed back on my piece about Galloway, saying, why don't you say that he's XYZ? You want to Google George Galloway? You can see a thousand one stories talking about that. I want to talk about people in Batley and Spen, what they care about, why they're voting the way they're going to vote. Because realistically, Galloway may come second, he may come third. I think it's very unlikely he's going to win, but he's going to get a lot of votes. And we have to examine why. That's not because all the people voting for him are stupid or racist, far from it. And it's a very broad range of people that I spoke to, by the way, that will be voting for him. That's a really important story. And fundamentally, I think if you can understand that story, you can get a really good grasp on why Labour has such big problems right now. Really big problems. And they're not going away, by the way. They're going to intensify. They're going to get much, much worse. Of course, solidarity with Kim Ledback today, disgusting scenes. And I think they shouldn't just be condemned. I think George Galloway needs to make quite substantive measures and moves to stop people doing that and really trying to discredit it in a really strong and affirmative way. But that is not the story. That is not the story. The story is about left behind places in this country. And it's mocked by the media. Oh, left behind because Nigel Farage is the champion of left behind. No, there are some places which really are left behind. The number of people who are economically inactive in battle is really high. The high street has been totally smashed. People I spoke to when I vote Galloway said 15 years ago, the high street was lovely. And now it's all just takeaways. Right? As much as people like a takeaway, you need more on the high street. Those are the things that the media should be talking about. But they're not. There's been that piece. There was Owen Jones' brilliant video. People should watch that. And there was a great piece by Maya in The Guardian, a piece of reportage. But other than that, you're basically... Sorry, I should say Lewis Goodall at Newsnight 2. Other than that, you're not seeing the journalistic industry, the media are not covering what matters to these people. And I think that explains a great deal about the levels of political apathy we see in this country. You say that George Galloway should come out strongly against this and try and stop it happening. I mean, in a way, I think it's hard for any leader to stop anyone doing something in their name. I mean, in this case, it's not even clear that harassment was done in his name. At the same time that we do know that George Galloway, as well as running on a sort of like, I'm pro-Palestine and anti-labour, does run on nowadays a sort of socially conservative platform where he's always railing against woke culture and gender identity, et cetera, et cetera. So it does seem to me that whilst he is happy to distance himself from this person who's harassed Kim Leadbeater, I think he seems quite reluctant to actually speak out in favour of gay rights because he thinks that that might lose him some votes and that he is leaning into, as well as talking about important issues like Palestine and Kashmir, he is trying to make sure that he doesn't put off anyone who is socially conservative and homophobic because he is desperate to court their votes. Do you think that's an unfair characterisation of the strategy he's pursuing here? I think it's plausible. I think it's an important point to make, Michael. Do I think that George Galloway has a problem with gay people? I don't think his stuff on trans rights, I think that's a different conversation. In terms of gay people, I've not seen the evidence. I mean, if people can submit that, I think his person position on trans rights is somewhat different and obviously I don't agree with it. But what you're saying about he would never call these things out, he would never sort of publicly admonish anybody who may be a social conservative. I think that's correct. But he's not unique in doing that. There are many conservative MPs and I think, actually, many Labour MPs who lean into those same things. But because he's a one-man ban, it's a lot easier to pick out. Brexit was a classic example. I don't think Brexit was racist, but clearly there were many, many racist arguments, anti-migration arguments, that went into the Brexit debate. And many MPs knew that many people who vote for them in their constituency, Labour MPs, knew that many people in their constituencies would no longer vote Labour if they say, actually, immigration is good. I think that's a sort of tendentious argument in so much as that applies to all politicians. Now, the question is how destructive is it? Well, I think in this immediate context, it's a seat where an MP was murdered. It's where a woman is being confronted by a group of men. I think in that particular context, yes, you need to have a really strong questioning of his views on these things. But I think it is unfair to say he uniquely as a politician gives these things can't blanch because I think lots of politicians do that. I think that's a lot of politics, Michael. I don't agree with it. Again, it's one of those things where, on Navarra, we talk about these things. I obviously don't agree with it. I'm a passionate defender and supporter of LGBTQ rights if there was a political party that was opposed to it. Anyway, I wouldn't vote for it. But I do think it's unfair and inaccurate to say that all parties don't participate in what you're talking about to a degree. I don't think it's exceptional, but I do think that it's grotesque, I suppose, to be fighting a campaign against a gay woman who's being harassed, essentially, for being gay and not saying anything which suggests you're supportive of LGBT rights because you're courting people who don't believe in LGBT rights. I think that there is something quite morally disgusting about that, I suppose. And I'm not saying that's completely exceptional. I mean, I know there are loads of politicians who do this about all sorts of issues. I mean, we've talked about it a lot on this show when it comes to Gypsy travelers, for example. But I think it is worth being clear here that Galloway's refusal to come out in favour of gay rights is a real, real problem. No, no, I mean, I said that at the start. I said I said he should have a really strong position on this. He should condemn it in the strongest possible terms. And he should say explicitly, solidarity with Kim Ledbetter. This is not in my name and take concrete steps to stop it. I mean, when I was in, when I was in Batley and Spen and talking to various people around his campaign, they were aware that these elements do exist and that they would come in. And these are two separate questions in a way, Michael. So on the one hand, this gentleman is not part of the campaign. The people that were intimidating her are not part of the campaign. But then you're separately saying, because of George Galloway's, and that's one, let's put that into a discrete box for a second. And there's a separate point you're saying with George Galloway needs to publicly state his support for LGBT rights because of this first thing. I mean, they're two separate questions. The first thing is reprehensible. The first thing is reprehensible. The second thing I don't agree with, I don't think it's progressive. I don't think a socialist has that position, but I do think they're different. I think the first thing kind of makes you a monster, right? The second thing I think, again, we're saying lots of politicians behave like this. If I was in Batley and Spen, people said, oh, you support Galloway. If I was in Batley and Spen, my preferred candidate would be Kim Ledbetter. I think a lot of people feel like this. Kim Ledbetter, for me, is the best candidate. But a lot of people also look at Kirkley's Council, which was Labour Run. They look at Kirstama and they say, I like Kim Ledbetter, but not as a Labour candidate. So if I lived there personally, I'll be honest, I probably wouldn't vote. I probably wouldn't vote. Or I'd vote Kim Ledbetter. What's really telling here, Michael, is that the Labour aren't going after the Tories, they're going after George Galloway. The reason being, I think because the Tories have got this sewn up already, and it's about coming second. That's my suspicion. And that's the kind of the subtext that they attack on Galloway. Yes, of course, it's justified because it's something appalling and abhorrent happened today. But I think we're going to see more of this over the coming days, because the enemy for Labour now in Batley and Spen, it's not the Tories, it's George Galloway. That tells you, again, something quite big about the kind of erosion of the Red Wall. And Batley and Spen is not a typical Red Bull Sea. It was conservative till 1997, has a large Muslim population. But that is really telling, Michael. If you said four months ago, Labour will lose Hartlepool by 7,000 votes, and they'll be targeting George Galloway and the Batley and Spen by-election, your jaw would have dropped. You would have said, wow, we, Kirstama cannot survive that. The question is, can I?