 And Truman if you want to see if you can screen your welcome to do that as well while we're giving people under two more minutes. So, yeah, let's see what happens here we've got some homeschooling or remote learning happening here today so I'll keep it on but if it starts to get choppy I'll just take the video take the video off. Okay, sure. And so, well, thanks again very much to hyper ledger and to this special interest group for giving us the chance to connect with you guys and tell you a bit about what we're doing and what we're seeing, and, and then to have a discussion around ways that we may be able to collaborate and and I want to recognize and thank in particular Martin for reaching out already on on opportunities for collaboration. Back in the fall with the collabathon and an associated conference, which which we were, which we really appreciated the opportunity to participate in so thanks for that and we'll look forward to reciprocating as as opportunities come up on in the US climate world there. So, I'm joined by Houston Baltol and Michael team and who can say a little bit about their background. When they, when they speak a little bit later on. So, Houston leads product thinking for us climate and as you'll understand from his background he's, is there could be no better personality to do that and Michael team and is the project leader for us climate and open source through and likewise, we could really ask for a better person in those roles so I'm much less proficient and accomplished than than my two colleagues here, but I've been around the, the, the intersection of sustainability and business investing in economic development for more than a quarter of a century and and involved in data driven approaches to integrating what you know and when I first started out we're called environmental externalities into decision making in these areas. So, and throughout really the course of my career leading up to, to, to starting OS climate have had the opportunity to, to be involved in the successive steps along the path toward much more sophisticated incorporation of information about climate and sustainability in a range of decision making including in business and finance so I, I was on the climate change negotiating team during the, the, the administration and the lead on financial mechanisms for the negotiating team, and also the lead on global environment working with the multilateral institutions including IFC World Bank, etc. And, and, and then after the Clinton administration went to McKinsey and then into a firm that we, we grew up to be essentially sort of a McKinsey type boutique that focused on tapping sustainability as a source of growth and profitability for large corporations and the opportunity to do that working with General Motors for example on the team that conceived and launched the vault, General Electric, Dow and DuPont, large utilities like Duke Energy, investors in the community space including a range of different financial institutions but also Google. And so, and, and, and I, hopefully you'll find that this long biography is actually useful in connecting some of the, we'll talk about around OS climate all along that path that I described up until you sort of the mid, you know, sort of five, six years ago. The, we were undertaking various crude approaches at scenario analysis at, at looking into trying to peer into the future and understand in a quantitative manner is in, in transition, in the transition to deal with environmental challenges affected. For example, in technology policy and other areas affected markets and affected opportunity for companies for investors and the like. And, and that that that crude scenario analysis took, took XL right up to the very end of what it can possibly do and beyond. So to the point to the point where at McKinsey and then a company that I then founded with using some McKinsey IP, we were using Excel based models that started a team of analysts, you know, a week or more just to run three scenarios. And so, fortunately, right at that, at that moment, you know, sort of the, the, the well known to you all, the terrific advances in, in, in data science and programming languages, and, and cloud cloud, computing and storage clouds all came together. Fortunately, at a time when, when, when it comes to climate change we really needed the most. So, after having first tried unsuccessfully to start a for profit venture backs company to develop a platform of data analytics for climate integrated investing. You know, sort of the learnings were very clear that that there were structural problems in the marketplace that that that could not be solved or at least easily solved or quickly solved in a, in a sort of a normal market approach. And so, so we, I along with some of the people that have been involved in that company intersect took the took the hypothesis or the question to to Jim Whitehurst about whether or not we could employ the the open source approach and open collaboration to tackle the problem. And, and, and Jim convened a lot of leading lights across the open source community, including from the Linux Foundation, and others to look at the problem definition that we had come up with in a lot of the search that we had a rim user needs and where providers are coming from the like, and they came back with a resounding yes that this was a great. So, I'm not that the, I'm not telling, I guess this group anything that you don't know about the truth of that but, but it was the beginning of a real aha for our, our stakeholders and a growing group of stakeholders on the user side in particular asset owners and asset managers who, except for a few quads and data scientists in their ranks, totally unfamiliar with open source. So, so that was, I mean, that accounts a bit for the fact that so the story that I just told you about about going to Jim Whitehurst that played out in in May and June, 2018 so it's been a while and in part because of the lack of awareness in the front office in financial services of how open source works, even I would say, suspicion about open source in a world where asymmetric information is the coin of the realm. So, so that's that's kind of the intro into talking a bit about some of the other trends and things that were that we're seeing, then, then we'll talk about what we're, what we're seeing, what we're actually doing in the project and and then leave the groundwork for, for talking about areas where we might be able to collaborate so a couple of other things on trends and and use and jump in with anything that you think I miss. So, so one of the, one of the most important set of trends is around voluntary disclosure of climate related information, both by corporations and by by institutional investors and and banks and financial institutions. And, and the sort of at the really at the center of that, although there's so many different initiatives is the is the TCFD. And so, that's not to say that that the that you need to say what that is there. Sorry about force. Task force on climate related disclosure. I didn't. Sorry, that's great. Stop me at any point if we if I or others among us use acronym, you're not familiar with I assume that you guys are probably pretty well aware of TCFD. They're not withstanding the fact that there is, I think real, or, you know, we observe a real coalescing around the TCFD, particularly in the in the run up to cop 26. And there is also a proliferation of of new initiatives of all the various stripes around data and analytics related to climate and even sort of next, the next issue out from climate I would say in the ESG space being that being biodiversity. And it's a, it's this is a natural thing that happens anytime, you know, an issue area gets super huge but particularly when there's a big deliverables moment where there's a lot of money financial support attention fame influence on the table that being cop 26. So, while they're, they're, they're, they're trends that we see that are driving some convergence, including around, around standards and metrics, the at the same time there's also some divergence. And, and then, and one of the things that we're seeing including as very recently as today in a discussion with the on diversity related to data is that a lot of organizations and institutions not just for profit commercial institutions but NGOs and academic that have developed data sets or tools that are that are not really open source but are proprietary, but and are linked to, they believe their, their, their, their lifeblood in terms of funding one way or the other that that there's a real suspicion and actually a concern about open source as a competitive threat. So actually Scott Nicholas was on the line in this call earlier today, which involves some very heavy hitters, whether you know, from agencies major pension funds, etc. sort of giving an open source 101 to that community. Another kind of key area of trends that we see is that in the, in the failure of both corporations to quickly enough align to Paris Accord temperature goals and to realign their business activities accordingly, and financial institutions to more fully climate into an align their, their, their decisions both in a portfolio and an individual investing in finance level with Paris goals, regulators are coming in, particularly in Europe very hard to try to force it to happen. And so, you know, the, now, you know, I think for hyper ledger and for, and, and what Martin's doing at Yale and probably others here on the call and for OS climate. I think this is largely a tailwind and creates a lot of opportunity, but there's some particularities around how that needs to happen in practice that are also policy related so I mean, in terms of the regulatory drive drivers. The, you know, the completion of the green taxonomy, the, the, the promulgation of the next round of non financial disclosure requirements by the European Commission by, by the director general fees ma, coming out next month, along, along with some of the national level regulations that have preceded it for example in France, and, and the Netherlands and forthcoming in other European member states that these are all pushing for greater and greater mandatory disclosure and, and, and, and a longer and longer list of metrics around which companies and, and financial institutions are called to disclose. There's a tremendous amount of pushback in the year I mean there's a I would go so far as to say the, that that the commission is experiencing a revolt from the business community, saying, enough is enough where you're just layering on too much disclosure requirements, you know, we were getting there and we were pretty close on on climate before and now the taxonomy is just killing us. That's a, that's an, it's an, it's an important problem. It signals problems that perhaps the, the Linux Foundation and, and its partner initiatives can help to solve. So there's a real opportunity, I think for impact there. I mentioned regs that are outside of climate. So I just didn't give the laundry list of other sort of regulatory drivers there there are, there are quite a number of them and, you know, those that are watching what's happening in the US are maybe aware that the recommendations that OS climate helped to develop as part of the, the CTFC comprehensive guidance to us regulators on climate related market risk have basically been adopted whole by the by demonstration, who are moving aggressively on them and in fact started moving. Even before the, the inauguration. So that's, I think that's all very positive, but I was going to mention that sort of the, the, you know, some of the other policy context that affect, I think, what, what open source projects can do in this area. And one of those is around, you know, everything, all things digital in the European Union, and, and the, and in particular, the very strong move to, to cultivate the infant industry you might call it of cloud services providers in the EU with OVH sort of leading the charge that others involved as well. And the, you know, we've kind of heard heard and pretty really know in certain terms from the European Commission that to to play ball in the implementation of of various of the of the climate related and climate related regulatory requirements disclosure data architectures, etc. that that that the we've got to be playing ball with the European cloud services providers so that we there I say, I mean, you know that that that's for us climate I think it's for it's for anyone you guys may well be already sort of engaged there and and and ahead of us but we'll you know to the extent that that we're making inroads there that that can be useful as well for hyper ledger other projects, you know, we will be carrying the broader LF banner in our engagement with those those entities so I think I'll stop there that hopefully that that was that was somewhat useful to you guys I'm not really sure if it was happy to answer any questions. Also, Houston and Michael did I miss anything there on the trends topic. Well I can in my part just go a little bit more into the specific sort of data trends, if you like, for a couple minutes. Shall I go ahead. Can you hear me okay. Can you guys hear me. Yeah, okay. Well, yeah, so I'm a Houston Balzel and I have about about over 20 years ago I co founded what's now MSCI ESG research. It was called invest at the time and we set out to rate companies based on environmental and sustainability issues. We're time added social and governance and then we became part of risk metrics and then became part of MSCI. And so became bigger and bigger and I left a few years ago and my old team just keeps getting bigger and bigger and you know ESG broadly keeps getting bigger so we now have, you know, standard pours bought one of our frenemies for, you know, for all that time, which is Robico Sam Moody's bought Visio iris Morningstar now on Sustainalytics and there's ISS, which is now being bought by Georgia Boris so they're all sort of all these ESG research firms are owned by bigger investors now. And so the overall sort of ESG and climate are very big parts and strategic areas for these commercial data providers as the MSCI refinitive lcg etc. And for investors and other financial institutions who are using that data so the field just keeps getting bigger and climate as a some issue keeps getting bigger because of all the trends that Truman discussed. But also, as Truman alluded to, there's what my friend Linda from my old team and MSCI who's now the head of research there, calls the NGO food fight of initiatives frameworks, you know, there's just really complicated messy field and a lot going on, and interestingly, a lot of slits, you know, slipping the wheels and duplicated effort. There's certainly a whole lot of effort duplicated effort collecting data. So, normally, I mean, by now, larger companies that are big that are intensive matters of carbon generally are reporting that data in their CSI reports or and reporting through to the carbon disclosure project CDP. Although, there's still lots of companies that don't report and certainly a lot of companies that don't report everything because the scope three calculations are complicated and and, you know, many different methodologies etc. All of the for profit all of the for profit data providers are collecting this data one way or another, as well as nonprofit CDP, and they also have their own estimation models to fill in gaps. They're not necessarily transparent and users are ultimately very concerned about getting good data but also understanding how it's been built and whether their estimates and assumptions etc. And then all of this does exist behind paywall. So, on the one hand you can go sort of individually to CDP and get a report for free, or you can go to individual company, you know, CSR reports and find data in a PDF file or a spreadsheet somewhere. There's no publicly available full data set of that and we're increasingly seeing the demand for that and we're also seeing a lot of pushback for the sort of, you know, the pricing power that the data commercial data providers have. So, what we're trying to find in this in the open source, you know, angle that Michael knows well is to look for the pre competitive layer where we can build a good data Commons, fully open publicly available to all the investors but to all the others in the community to who can do a lot of good research and innovation on that data set. So our first effort is really focused on on the carbon area and that's not just emissions and scope one and two and especially scope three, but it's also a lot of the other things that we're that we need. We've done a lot of work on the science based targets initiative. That's an effort to look at companies climate ambition so see what targets they have what reductions they're planning to make see if they make sense, and then build that into portfolio analysis. So that's a fairly messy area right now. There's a lot of work on methodology that we need to clean up and that the members of the open source climate are eager to do and and also to improve the data and modeling related to that. So that that sort of whole data set is really one of the first projects that we're taking on and trying to wrestle to the ground right now. Is that that's a basic background on the sort of data set Michael do you want to talk about what you're doing and maybe some more about, you know, the process of sort of product development that we're undergoing. Before I do talk about the specifics of what we're doing in the in the data commons I do want to reach back and touch one thing that Truman said about open source. I think many of you know that I started the world's first open source software company back in 1989, but I think that this context relates to the challenge that we're facing today in 2021 with respect to getting the kind of data organized and available that we need. Back in those early days, I would look to convince people that there was money to be made in commercializing free software and the responses sort of came in two categories either the people who thought it was so facially absurd. They didn't even want to engage in argument. And the second category was those who are willing to at least argue for the sport of it. And what they found was that I was unwilling to concede on any of the disadvantages of free software and always talked about the advantages of harnessing the collective potential of unlimited development. And eventually they would say, okay, suppose you're right about free software. How do you operationalize it? And I say, well, you know, we use the internet and then they think they've won the argument because they they dropped the bomb that will of course everybody knows you can't use the internet for commerce. And I think that we're kind of in that position right now with a lot of the folks in terms of ESG related data, the set of assumptions that people have about how market data, market analytics, financial investment works, and what the future really depends upon. So throughout a lot of this work, it is a it is a challenge of marshaling what we know about open source and open data and and what the market is ready to do to participate. But that being said, yes. So just whenever before you you you proceed, but I don't want to cut you off. If it's not the natural spot to do that. I just do have a kind of a question about the framing and context for what we're doing so let me let me know what the right point is. Well, since I haven't really started talking about the data comments if you wanted to, if you wanted to say anything feel free before I jump in. So that's the question. So we, we have structured our remarks with an assumption that may not actually be accurate which is that you know enough about OS climate and our, our mission, our use casers and sort of the key players in our community at this point that we don't need to go over that but we can certainly pause and and spend a couple of minutes on that if it's going to be helpful so I don't know how to gauge that. Maybe just take, take a cue from the chairs or let, if anybody wants to weigh in on the chat will be looking at that but and and I do, I do agree that you guys do understand a lot about open source. I also understand very well. The dividing line between open source and open data and the ways in which the concept of open collaborative software development has a totally different regime of rights and concerns, compared with open data development. And this is in fact, I think that one of the main things that we are trying to bridge here in the context of the particular problem that we're trying to solve. So, so just in terms of those of those problems and I think because I kind of thinking through what I've, I've perceived that the CIG is has been talking about and thinking about and what hyper ledgers doing. Let me just, just walk you through one slide here. So, so the, the long term vision of OS climate is to address a wide range of use cases for climate and ESG aligned decision making across financial sector use cases corporate use cases. We're not talking about communities, policymakers, but, but we're focused in in the near term on addressing the particular needs of asset owners like pension funds and sovereigns asset managers banks and regulators and three ways. One, the data commons, which Michael will talk more about essentially a federated library of resources in a number of different areas of climate related information. And then the tooling models and some tools, although we don't want to compete with the marketplace for scenario analysis around both risk and opportunity and for alignment of portfolios and decisions on individual investment and financial decision instruments. And, and so here's just a list of the, the priority use cases that we're working on and I wanted to just tick through these because they they'll provide some context for what Michael's going to talk about in a minute so stress testing, both by regulators and by regulated organizations, banks, insurance companies, etc. Management, asset allocation strategic asset allocation portfolio construction, the research function, which, you know, sort of both buy and sell side but kind of a covering across a range of different uses and sort of internal clients in financial institutions, even for selection, and then analysis of securities and loans. But we're also, I mean, the, the, these same models can be used and data in the design and execution of benchmark strategies and products, as well as in disclosure reporting on that is, is extremely important is helping financial institutions and NGOs and governance governments and others engage effectively with companies and financial institutions and, and, you know, with a combination of of pushing and pulling forces to, to speed up the alignment of companies and financial institutions with Paris goals. So sorry, that's, that's, sorry for jumping in there Michael but I just wanted to give that context before you continue. No, that was, that was very helpful. And so, based on, based on our knowledge and experience with open source based on our recognition of this enormous problem, and, and the sort of the collective acknowledgement by so many of the people that Truman has just mentioned that the existing, the existing system is not working and they really are looking for a solution. The opportunity presents to bring the open source development models and open data to the ESG topic. And so, with this universal desire, the questions how, how do we do it. And first of all, as, as Houston mentioned, the ESG landscape encompasses a broad range of data with a wide range of uses and rights, and that includes public scientific data, public regulatory data, public corporate disclosure data, but also proprietary operational metrics, proprietary classification and scoring systems, public classification and scoring systems, etc. And one of the things that is, I think very interesting is to see how open data, transformed by open source can create more useful open data to sort of create this virtuous cycle of ultimately having a full sufficiency of data to address those, those, those, those key constituents across those range of uses. So for example, I'm sure you're familiar with how public satellite imagery can be transformed by open source classification engines that lead to things like public land use data sets, or disparate facility data can be aggregated and normalized by open source tools to create say a public registry and information about power plants all over the world. But what we're one of the major things that we're looking at right now as a technical project within OS climate is taking public ESG disclosures, which do contain a lot of information, but that but so many companies report things differently in different formats that it is extremely time consuming and expensive to try to turn that into some normalized and regularized data, but a open source extraction engine on these used with these public ESG reports could lead to the kind of open ESG data that corporates are looking for. So our current data commons is focused on the collection of these public data and public disclosures, the extraction of information from PDF and XLS into as reported data, the translation or production of normalized data in standardized metrics, and then the loading of that data into query or cloud optimized formats for use by the, the, the, the investor community. And then to do all that in light of the kinds of data governance, provenance methodology, validity and security questions that heads of risk and heads of reporting and the corporate community can all agree to. And so I think that this really sort of sets up the, the, the framing of the topic before us, which is what what might be the possible areas of collaboration with hyper ledger in terms of bringing solutions together to help solve this crime climate problem. Great, I am Truman and Houston and Michael free to keep more context I think that was fascinating and great to put everyone in a loving playing field about what OS climate is. It may be interesting to start hearing some some questions from from the participants that they could either punch in the chat or a mute and pose the questions, just being mindful to keep keep the questions short from from my side and I think Michael you are already alluding to it, two questions that come to mind of is in simple terms, where, where, where is the development at in a let's say a progress bar and how what are different ways in which the community can directly help in accelerating it since it's such a timely and urgent process, and whether there's been considerations of the use of cryptography and distributed ledger technologies to establish you talk a little bit about your ability different ESG frameworks, but be interested in hearing any thoughts around digital audit ability. So to be able to audit and trust the data in the low cost way. Since that's, that's one of the parts they trust and a big dichotomy in the climate space is achieving transparency alongside privacy. So be very, you know, those are just just, just to almost like grounding questions but see if that that helps inspire some thoughts, and then I see that already people are lining up some questions on the chat so feel free to pick them up and take as you go. Let's just start off with one super short story that I heard this morning from the chief investment operator for officer for Federated Hermes. And we're talking about we're getting ready for TV interview tomorrow and we were talking about why Federated Hermes got involved in OS climate and he said, six years ago. And in an interview of a person who became our lead quant and who later became our lead quant focused on climate and ESG. That person said, I've got a vision. And that's a vision of a combination of LinkedIn and a database that provides a common truth about climate in companies in the marketplace. And that was six years ago. And it still hasn't happened so that that that's that's one of the reasons why they got involved in what we're doing. And I think that ties in very much with your question Martin but I'll leave Michael to answer it more specifically. Sure. So, so in terms of looking at how how hyperledger can can contribute. First of all, there are there are ways in which we don't have the kind of privacy problems yet that I'm aware of that hyperledger is so great at solving and some domains simply because a lot of what we're focused on doing is collecting publicly disclosed information or or or otherwise regulatory information that is still, you know, very disparately reported. But as far as the provenance question as far as the security question with with asset owners making multi trillion dollar decisions, it is very, very important that they're working with data who sourcing they can very much trust. And so it is absolutely a question of how we are ensuring that that fits in and and and can first sit alongside what existing data providers are providing and then ultimately provide what the data providers are not providing, which is a transparent view of the ESG truth. Yeah, so for example there. I think probably a couple of folks on the phone that I are on the call here that I see are working with with RMI on some of their approaches of using Earth observation to to gather sources of information about corporate activities in oil and gas. So for from the from the investment user side, you know that that it's part of it's certainly part of our roadmap and and part of the of the discussions internally going on about our roadmap of, you know, not only sort of to have a of the truth about about reported information, but also really knowing very accurately the provenance of alternative data from a range of sources including Earth observations. Another question that's been asked relates to you know what has the OS climate project released to date and one of the things that I want to say is that while many of our members are very familiar with using open source technologies deep in their infrastructure. Many of the folks that we are interfacing with are are not at all familiar with that, but many of them have their own initiatives that overlap a lot of these different goals and so part of this early exercise in this incubation process is to figure out how to bring a whole group of people who are each individually solving the problem recognizing the insufficiency of that and and trying to collaborate and and making it work with respect to their compliance and and and regulatory requirements, respecting the competitive and also, you know, respecting especially concerns about anti competitive behavior and bringing that together and that's a that is something which is very much in process today and we're we're making good progress today. But in addition to that, there have been some other projects that have moved beyond the incubation stage. For example, the science based target initiative is a is a tool that helps companies publish their progress against climate they set it they set a target and then they can measure progress and so the SBTI tool was released last year and our members are looking at how battle line tool can be brought into the climate workflow. So the that was, I put a link in the chat. So that was the first project essentially of OS climate together with one of the OS climate members or tech finance and done under the auspices of the of the science based targets initiative which is a collaboration between World Resources Institute, WWF CDP and the UN Global Compact and they that that the partners, thereafter selected OS climate to be a stored and custodian further open source development. I mentioned in that context setting slide earlier that that alignment tools inclusive of the science based targets initiative finance tool alignment for decision making at a portfolio and an individual investment and financing decision level is is a top priority for for our members and but as Michael said we were in the we're in the careful process of of gauging within that this more specific priorities of asset owners and asset managers, including of some of the perspective members that we that we anticipate joining OS climate in coming weeks before we sort of embark on the next set of of work and fortunately that'll be that will leverage some some we hope some some intellectual property that's been developed by firms that are using the science based targets initiative finance tool right now. Let me I can tackle is there a data source for how Paris aligned different companies are and so the the answer is. No, not yet, but if you were to. If you were to sort of run the SBTI tool for all, you know, for all listed companies, you would get a data set that purports to up to be that. However, don't bother because a lot of work is needed. For almost all sectors. There is a single default temperature score and and given that they're only several hundred companies that have published targets and for which information is available to understand how they are how well they are they are achieving or moving toward those targets. The the the resulting data set is not robust yet. I want to make a comment on on Truman's comment. For for those of you who have not I I I came into this OS climate project with a lot of experience in open source software and open source communities and no experience at all in the in the world of ESG and I will tell you that it is an amazingly diverse, multi-valent community and and there are such communities in the open source world as well. We know that the that the life sciences have got individual contributors working on everything from the molecular level to the whole earth and and medicine and and therapies and and and and ecosystem health across all these different areas of the world. And it is a great success when something like open source allows these many diverse communities to actually all work in the same ecosystem and we have certainly seen many communities in the world. And it is a great success when something like open source allows these many diverse communities to actually all work in the same ecosystem and we have certainly seen many cases where individual efforts can sort of fail because there's not enough collective tissue. And in the ESG world it is it we are we are we are racing to build that connective tissue between these many different disparate communities and for me as an open source person, I know that these are the right answers for me as not an ESG expert. It is sometimes very confusing and frustrating to me how complex this is, but I have seen this solution work in other spaces. I am trying to translate it into the space and what the OS climate project is doing is is is is addressing this problem across these many different constituencies and so as you listen to the answers that Truman and Houston are giving. They are just representative of the larger the larger complexity of this particular problem. And I think that in the hyperledger community you may also recognize how it is that a small solution in a particular aspect of something can build a sufficient connection to make much, much bigger things happen. And that is a pattern that I think we should identify so that we can apply that to the community. And I think that in the hyperledger community you may also recognize how it is that a small solution in a particular aspect of something can build a sufficient connection to make much, much bigger things happen. And I think that in the hyperledger community you may also recognize how it is that a small solution in a particular aspect of something can build a sufficient connection to make much, much bigger things happen. And that is a pattern that I think we should identify so that we can apply that successfully to our work. This is a really interesting question from from Robin. Could you just maybe say your question out loud and and then I think perhaps you, you may be thinking of some other things that are going on and then maybe Houston can can can respond. Sure. You talked about gathering of data and make it public. And you want to give companies the tools that they can do that load or no cost. But I think in terms of CSR companies need to account for all their missions. And this is go one, two and three. So let's say I buy products from a different company. And of course there are some missions by the transport of the products and now I use those products for my own services. I need to have a kind of account for those products as well. And what I'm asking is if this company which produces the products and ship them towards me can just transfer this emission of carbon to my account. So it gets into my balance and I can use this as a proof instead of all the bills I received from company, a kind of trading system for carbon emissions, instead of just gathering data. Yeah, so that's an interesting point. And in fact, there are startups that I know of who are trying to do exactly that. And, and with a hyper ledger approach, I believe. So their idea is a bottom up, you know, measure it from wherever it's emitted, and not just not just a power plant or, you know, an oil well, but sort of measure it at the baseline and then create essentially, you know, a sort of like a bill of counting that moves in scope three, I mean, it just moves with the product in a in a sort of a, you know, hyper ledger way. And then the, the theory is then that you would, as you said from an accounting standpoint, it would ultimately be accounted for every every emission and would take care of, you know, double counting and would also take care of assurance. One of the startups that I know of is working with one of the big four accounting firms. So right now in the field that there's a lot of assurance work, so called by big accounting firms for these corporates and say well they, they, you know, do some auditing on their calculation of their carbon footprints and the rest of their ESG data for that matter. So the, the theory is that that would kind of change its focus to be, okay, more like those accounting firms look at accounting numbers they would look through these sort of hyper ledger accounts and make sure that they were accounted for the right way and built up from the bottom. So I think it's, I think it's an idea that is very interesting. I can imagine it would take a while for it to roll out and it's quite complex but I, but it's probably squarely in there if you were your group's interest. I'll look for the name of a couple of those that if I can get them at handle post them in the chat. So let me just see whether. So great. So, Martin, since you're going to have to step out anything that you'd like to have covered before you leave. Well, I think there's a, like I mentioned huge opportunities for us to collaborate and different hyper ledger community understands a little bit of the tool sets. And perhaps an interesting exercise we could do is follow up is a line a lot of what would you identify it in terms of requirements for a open open data and open platform comments for ESG and climate. And what are the things that need to be achieved. And what are the tool sets from the hyper ledger site that that might be applicable to achieve that. Since the sick has been working a lot on on doing that mapping in terms of broader climate accounting so we might create a, we might have an easy time creating a short list of saying well, to achieve this. So the tool sets and eventually we, we have on the programming sessions to to test different proof of concepts and applications, some which can apply to a broader climate accounting, but that can equally apply to ESG which I think would be very interesting to explore. So in the, in the, in the nature of trying to see how to how to take this in a more ongoing conversation and collaboration next steps, since we all share the same open philosophy. So that would be just one thought that that could be discussed for them. And, and that's, that might lead to something in the next couple months. And just one quick note around timing we do have the room for 30 more minutes if people do want to stay on understand some people may need to drop but feel free to stay on if you want to continue the discussion. Great and just one thing before Martin signs off. So, if you haven't already, maybe this has happened. You know, probably a similar conversation with the Finnaz folks might be helpful because, you know, they, they, we think we've kind of achieved some agreement, which is helpful on areas where they can get involved in climate and ESG, and it's around creating and clearance and custodial platforms and the like so so there could be a good fit there as well. Yes, that's a great point and we we've had a couple of conversations with them from the stick in the club with on front in the past. So it'd be great to pick up the thread of where where that is and see how to, again, maybe thinking about a relatively simple, let's say, quick workshop, where we map things out and and think about a couple key stakeholders that that we might want to do in the room. Yeah, one of the one of the ways we could perhaps do that, Martin, and actually LF energy would want to be involved in that as well. Maybe LFI is, is to use. There's actually LFI has a or, or Kubernetes one of the hat has sort of done a tool that's a landscaping tool, and we can do we can do that live using that tool. Same same web length of what would be kind of useful as next steps. I'll sign off but I think we we've got a great participation. Tom's also online and David. Thank you so much this is super exciting and hope that this is the end of the beginning of collaboration opportunity and really ship. Thanks Martin. We, we may have overlooked questions back up the the thread here. Let's see. I mean, the small enough group that folks can just jump in with questions as well. David have we missed anything here. So I think we've covered all the questions that are in the chat. Let's see. I think I think there was a question and Michael covered it partially about about, you know, sort of what where we are with respect to additional releases. And I would say watch this space for what will first be demonstrations in a kind of controlled environment like a webinar type environment in late this quarter early next quarter beginning at that time. And, you know, right, we're in a phase where, as I think Michael mentioned, the development work is is is quite sort of close closely held and executed primarily by a relatively small number of contributors that are coming from the members and that's very much by design and appropriate for for where we are at this point. But one of the, you know, of course, the, the goal is to is to transition in various parts of the work to a more classic collaborative open source project approach as soon as possible, and one of the areas where that it's likely to happen first, not the only one, but is around tools for assessing physical risk from a range of different kind of user perspectives. So let's see. Houston, you I think you put something in there but I didn't think there was a link. I put in climate all in for a calm. Yeah. Oh, got it. I see it was above. Yeah. So that's all info is one using hyper the one I described building up from the bottom. Great. So, happy to stay on the line but if there are no further questions, we can break and give you back your time. What do you think, David, should we wrap at this point or Tom. Can you hear me. Truman this is Tom speaking. Hi. Thanks very much for that overview and you know I have been waiting patiently so that other members can ask questions because we've had the benefit of talking with you all a few times already. David did. I see that you're still with us are there any items that we should. We need to talk about post presentation or webinar. If not, I'm not sure if David's on on mute or whatever. If I'm quite interested as you know we did a webinar two weeks ago on our previous. call in relation to a next gen standard system for climate and sustainability to connect with the new data systems that need to be created so that the data is transformable in comparable consistent knowledge. In terms of all of the types of ways to characterize climate actions that are out there. And so I'm, I'm interested to know to what extent within OS climate, the, the issue of standards is being tackled we have a working group within our sing. And there's some good work there but you know just stop there and ask. What you're doing on the standards front. I can start on that at because I think they're there are a couple of levels so one is is at the level of of standards around the metrics climate related metrics for. Corporate corporations and companies national institutions but also for various important factors, for example, and policy technology, etc. We are very studiously not a standard setting. entity there and are rather a standard implementer but also I think can be a place where standards convergence at that level. IE the, the, the, what, what metrics are selected by sort of critical masses of the, but the, the, of the, the necessary stakeholders can can be sort of tested and and implemented effectively so I give an example there and this is outside of. This is outside of climate but there's a, there's, you know, massive set of initiatives and work that are gearing up around biodiversity. But, but the, the lack of, of convergence around a, an agreed set of metrics and the, and the competitive juices that are flowing as various organizations set out to define those metrics is, is an area where we are that we're watching carefully so we're focused. We're focused on climate in the near term, but particularly as the French take, move toward their role in the presidency of the European Union. There's going to be just a dramatically increased focus on this also under the auspices of the T and FD the task force on nature related disclosures. So, yeah, so that's, I guess that's what we're, what I'd say at that level I don't know if Michael you want to talk about standards that more of the, of the data level. But one, one thing that I would definitely say is that as, as you said, we're, we're maintaining a very big tent and we are not trying to be ourselves in a standards position but to the extent that open source software can codify existing practices to the extent that it makes it possible for a standard to render its truth more clearly and better. That's, that's all to the good and ultimately in the, in the competitive marketplace of ideas there will be some standards and some metrics which really are the ones that drive decisions and climate alignment and the rest of that but our philosophy is to implement the standards that our, our members are using as their highest priority instruments, but to do so in an open source way that allows for very broad participation. Yeah, well, I agree with those things that I did think I mean what Michael was saying is that you will use what's out there but basically to the extent that we build a database that's not that's climate and then go farther into the sort of full ESG world. You know, there's so many frameworks what I mentioned before the NGO food fight, every time you look around there's another framework, and if we can, you know, make it much easier for a company to load their data indirectly so that doesn't have to be scraped comes to the database and then can be mapped to these different frameworks. You know that that's a way that it makes their life a lot easier and makes the data more useful but I think there will be a natural process of, as Michael said, you know, see which ones are most useful, get these disparate groups to sort of agree on at the same level, you know, some of the concepts that overlap their Venn diagrams of interest, and, you know, clean up the, the sort of landscape, it'll be very useful to have that all in one clean place that also right now, the different data for data providers have teams that do all this stuff, and they're replicating the work, it seems logical to be a pre competitive layer type, you know, opportunity. That makes a lot of sense. Thank you. Thank you for having an eye on the chat. If I don't, I don't see any other questions so for for staying in touch to keep to continue to learn more there's the website of course, any other suggestions for the members on the call from the OS climate team. I will not then be a pleasure of mine and Martin and David to facilitate the continuation of staying up to speed and exchanging some information because of the natural complementarity I think of our, of our groups and the overall mission. So, thank you very much for giving everyone this webinar. And thank you very much for the opportunity. And to talk with you all. And we look forward to figuring out ways that we can work together with with the group and with individual members of it going forward. Please pass our best along to to Martin. David, thank you for your help and Tom, of course, so we'll we'll look forward to continuing the conversation. Great. Thank you very much. Thank you. Bye. Have a great day.