 If you are here for judging a book by its cover how inclusive is your community then you are in the right place There's supposed to be a picture here, and I don't know why it's not show I am Alana Burke You can find me on Drupal.org or Twitter at a Burke 626 And you've been finding me on Slack where I'm also an admin at Alana Burke We're going to talk a lot about how welcoming open source communities are and we're also going to talk about the Drupal community So do you think that people feel welcomed in the Drupal community? You know as anyone here, you know raise your hand. Have you ever had or witnessed an Unwelcoming experience in the Drupal community Yeah, so that's more than half of the people in this room, and it's not great What about open source in general? Have you ever witnessed or experienced an unwelcoming experience in an in an open source project in general? Yeah, again, that's almost everyone in the room That's really bad and the numbers also say that people don't feel welcome in open source so GitHub did this big open source survey in 2017 and I just want to point out a few really Numbers that I thought were really important so 18% of respondents had Experienced a negative interaction in open source 50% of respondents Witnessed a negative interaction 21% of respondents Stopped working on a project Because of a negative experience That's one in five people who stopped working on a project Because of something they experienced while working on it over 50% of respondents encountered dismissive responses And that's a huge one That's something I've definitely encountered from the first time I ever Asked a question about how to install Linux on my laptop when I was in college To even today as someone who knows a lot of people and generally Unfortunately, that's something that gets you a little more respect in the Drupal community but I still sometimes ask a question or raise an issue in an issue queue and I still get a won't fix or Works as designed or this isn't worth it and someone closes an issue And I think really you're gonna you're gonna be like that, but a lot of people are just like that And that's not okay So there were also a lot of questions about like what's important to you in a project And you know, what do you think really matters in a project? So 60 for 67% of respondents said that the license is very important when deciding whether to contribute to a project So they wanted to know, you know, how is this code going to be used? Who can use it and how are we controlling that? and When it came to you know, what's in the project and you know, what do you see in the project? 93% of respondents observed incomplete or missing documentation And documentation is really important because when you come into a project you need to know how to use it You know, what what is this code? How does it work? What does it do? What am I supposed to do with it? So I thought those numbers were really striking and I wanted to point them out across this really great quote on a post By hoodie on it was about welcoming communities A lot of people enjoy contributing to open source projects and open source projects love contributions and yet I keep seeing newcomers struggling to contribute and project maintainers struggling to find contributors, so What's the catch? But I think this is the question that we're constantly asking we We have all of these people who want to contribute and we've all of these people who are begging people to contribute So what why is this a problem? It it should be the solution to its own problem and yet it's not So clearly there's a problem here that we aren't finding and we aren't addressing And I think the issue is that open source isn't welcoming It isn't inclusive and the people who want to help don't know how and they're scared and they don't feel like they'll be Accepted and that is the problem that we have to fix. So what makes an open-source community welcoming? I did a lot of research and a lot of looking around and a lot of digging into my own experience and This is certainly not an end-all be-all list But I identified a handful of things that I think are really important and Certainly the best start at making sure that your open-source community is welcoming so You need a good code of conduct that is number one You cannot go anywhere without a good code of conduct if you want to start an open-source project When you initialize your repository, you should make a code of conduct You shouldn't go anywhere else first. You should make a get ignore file a read me and a code of conduct Your events and speakers What are your events? How are you organizing them and who's speaking at them because who's on stage matters? These people are going to go to your events They're going to see who's on stage and they're going to assume very rightly that the people on stage are important to your project and if they don't see people important who look like them and That they can Identify with them. They won't feel that they're welcomed in your community And of course very sensibly the ease of entry and the ease of contribution in your project if people cannot contribute to your project They're not going to feel welcome to do so if they can't figure out how to do it. They are not going to do it There's of course accessibility Which covers a wide range of things from your Tech accessibility, you know, can someone actually access your project on the internet and use it to sort of the more general things that could span from your you know are your events accessible to You know how you make You know make your your project and your existence accessible and we'll talk a little more about that Your leadership your project has to be led by someone Do they seem welcoming How do they run your project? Do they look like welcoming people do they look like the people you want to contribute to your project? Your website and social presence, you know Someone has to find your project and find information about it in order to contribute They have to communicate with other people in order to contribute does your website and social presence lend itself to that and Mentorship and documentation if someone is new to your project They need to talk to someone to learn how to contribute they need to read Documentation to learn how to contribute to your project. Do you have that in place for new people? So let's start by talking about a good code of conduct Do you have a good solid code of conduct that is? Prominently published and easy to find Do you have things like an anti-harassment policy? Is it clear how you handle conflict out of conduct is the most? Important thing in your community. It has to be robust Don't worry that you're being too specific or feeling like you're being catastrophic Because if you're too broad you might regret it later You may want to supplement your code of conduct with things like an anti-harassment policy Which should be very specific an anti-discrimination policy Which should make it clear that you do not tolerate any forms of discrimination And you also need to have a separate events code of conduct much like Drupal con does To make it very clear What behaviors you do and do not tolerate at events in person and also a value and ethics statement? Can help outline what the values of the community are and what values your community is expected to embrace? And it can really help the community get an idea of like You know, this is what we as a community want to strive for this is the kind of people we want to be and You know if you've got people in the community that aren't the kind of people you want to be I think it can give them an idea that like hey, maybe you want the kind of people we want to have here I think it just sort of makes things a little clearer Leadership this is really important and I think this is a place where tech specifically struggles What does your leadership look like? Because diversity starts at the top. It does not start at the bottom. Are your leaders all white? Are your leaders all men? And look at the breakdown of your leadership are all the technical roles men One of the things I do whenever I am looking at a company or a project is you know To look at their leadership page or to look at their you know their team page And I look at the breakdowns and sometimes I look at the overall gender breakdown or the overall You know breakdown of people of color is okay until I look at their roles And then I see that everyone who isn't a white man is in some kind of support role You know, they're not the developers And this especially happens in leadership where all of the technical roles are men And then everyone who isn't technical is a woman And that Isn't really progress Because women are just as technical and women are just as capable So if all of your support roles go to women, you're still not getting it right Official versus unofficial leadership is a really tricky topic It's something you have to be really mindful of this So in open source People who work publicly on your project are going to emerge as leaders People who contribute a lot people who speak at your events People who have a lot of knowledge So you need to be aware of these people And be aware of what kind of people they are Are they warm welcoming kind and helpful Or are they toxic Rude and dismissive Are these unofficial leaders the people that you would choose as leaders in your community? This is a really tough one, but toxic leaders in your community Are often a really huge issue in open source projects And it's something that needs to be addressed And there isn't really a one You know solution fits all kind of of answer here And I think each community really has to look at this and see what their specific problems are and how they're affecting the community But you know talking to their leaders You know figuring out maybe we do want to have some more official leadership But it's it's something that we can't just sweep under the rug So some ways to help address it are you know Hopefully you've already created a code of conduct and an anti-harassment policy to address the very specific behaviors coming from any toxic unofficial leaders if not Rewind create a committee and do that with those in place You should better be able to address this But first you have to define a goal. What do you actually want to do? Do you want to change the behavior of these people? Do you think that that's possible? Do you think that that is fixable? Do you think that you can prepare the relationships in this community? Or do you want to ask this person to step back? Do you think that you can ask them to step down or leave the community? You should also ideally have someone in your leadership trained In mediation and prep to do this if not you need to bring in some kind of professional This only gets worse if you have inexperienced and untrained people trying to address this Then you've got to sniff through Potentially legal problems and it's not how you want to move forward Next up. Let's talk about events and speakers. What makes an event inclusive? First off accessibility That should be obvious But there is so much that events need to do if you look on twitter You can find thousands of threads about event accessibility from wheelchair access to meals Quiet and prayer rooms be aware of all of the things that your community needs childcare nursing rooms There's a huge list And communicate what will and will not be available People understand that not every event can afford to do every single thing for every single person But it's most important that people come to your event or don't come to your event Because they know exactly what you can and cannot provide Don't let them get to your event and then find out And also How easy is it to get to your conference? How expensive is it? Do you always hold it in the same city? Do you have scholarships? Do you pay funds up front? Or do you reimburse them at some magical later date? Do you help with visas and other paperwork? That stuff really matters How people can actually get to your events You know plane travel isn't magic. People have to pay for it They have to figure out how they're going to do all of those logistics And the more that you can help with that The more you can ensure that you have a wide range of people go into your events And not just the people who are privileged enough to have employers who can do all of that for them Speakers are the people who make up your events And no matter what you do if you don't have a speaker lineup that doesn't look like your community Your community will be perceived as your speaker lineup So if your speaker lineup is predominantly white and male Your community will be perceived as predominantly white and male So do whatever you can to make your speaker lineup as diverse as possible This goes especially for keynotes Because your keynotes will be the most advertised They are the most special pieces of your event There is no excuse to have an all-white or all-male lineup of keynote speakers Never and I never want to hear an event say they're all we could find they're all who were available You didn't try our social events are another really important thing Do they all revolve around drinking? That's not very inclusive lots of people just Don't drink don't want to drink don't want to get drunk with a bunch of strangers Don't feel comfortable around around a bunch of strangers who are drinking It doesn't matter why you don't get to ask why just try to have events that don't revolve around alcohol Are all of your events really loud people get tired of that? It's not a great way to have conversation So consider having some more relaxed alcohol-free socials like Board games with food and social the food and soda Do remember that tech events are a whole bunch of nerds Board games with pizza and soda are probably really just fine with everybody at your event Not to stereotype, but I don't really know that many people who would be super bummed out if that was one of many options And make sure that your events code of conduct is Strictly applied to any and all social events stemming from your event your marketing Make sure that your marketing is also inclusive Don't try to make the event look like something that it isn't But if you do have the diverse lineup and diverse attendees Show them in your marketing materials Advertise your inclusive events Communicate all of the accessible options at your conference. Let people know what you're doing Let's talk about your website and your social presence People see when they visit you online They should see the really important things Your code of conduct Which should also show them a page that includes anything about how to report conflict or issues You should show them how to contribute Open source is about contribution. So this should be front and center on open any open source project page You should also show who contributes You want folks to get an idea of who else is in the community. This is a community that they're going to join You know not showing people who contributes is like asking people to join a club that they don't know who any of the members are So I think it's really important that people have a sense of who else is in this community Before they commit to it Social media is a really important part of communication these days. So do you have clear social media policies? clear commenting policies You know People are going to be rude and nasty and negative to you on twitter It doesn't matter if you are the ego waffles account or an open source project Someone is going to be mean and rude to you Do you have policies about how you handle that? Because you need those And do you have policies about you know, how you respond to people? Do you have a good social media team that is well informed? and You're helping people who ask you questions You should also have an idea of what kind of persona you want your social media to have you do not have to have an overly friendly social media account But do you have an idea of the kind of vibe that you want to be it is totally fine to be dry and informative But just make sure that you're consistent. So people have an idea of what to expect Use of entry and contribution How easy is it for people to contribute to your project? Open source is about contribution. So it should be as easy as possible to get started contributing to your project Make sure you have a path to contribution for everyone For developers for inexperienced developers and for non developers Documentation is important And it's a valid way to start contributing a lot of people You know, they start to look at a project and they realize there isn't documentation Well, creating that documentation as you figure it out is a really great way I find myself doing this a lot when I'm, you know, starting a new project Um, you know at a company and I'm like, oh, none of this setup documentation is here So as I get my setup done, I write the documentation and my first commit back to the project is usually All of the setup documentation for the setup that I just did Include environment setups in your contribution setup and keep it easy You know, remember that not everyone is experienced with dev ops A lot of people do not know how to spin up a local environment. So don't assume that they do You know, at least include a link To a very good how to and not just like, oh, hey, you know, just install such and such on your computer And then do this a lot of people don't know how to get to the such and such part Don't gatekeep contribution Don't make people jump through hoops Let people contribute And if their contribution is bad, you can point them toward mentorship resources and documentation before accepting it That's what pull requests are for. We already have a system for bad contributions Don't keep people from submitting their bad contributions So some ways to make sure it's easy for people to contribute Tag issues specifically for new contributors Tag quick fixes and things that are three minutes or less And tag documentation that needs to be added or improved Be patient and kind in issue cues You are a newbie once too Be nice Rootness dismissiveness and unresponsiveness Are some of the main reasons that people do not contribute So don't tolerate anyone who is any of those things in the issue cues There's never a reason to be rude Tone can be difficult online I personally tends toward being Overly polite and overly friendly because I don't want anyone to misinterpret my tone You don't have to do that But you do have to avoid being rude and dismissive and unresponsive Mentorship and documentation The good community supports itself and the people who make it up This includes mentoring and ensuring everything is documented properly It's your community cookie I know a lot of communities have been accused of that Do people feel like they can talk to the existing contributors? Or do they feel like that's some really cool social club that they don't have access to And do mentors reach out to new contributors To new contributors Or have them actually do some of the work How proactive are you in bringing in new folks? Do you reach out to them or do you just assume that people are going to reach out to you? Everything needs to be documented Not just the code Document how to contribute How to mentor Document how to add documentation All the documentation has to be in the same place It should be clean clear. It should be searchable Open source code is only as good as its documentation What good is code if people do not know how to use it? And then there's accessibility We could give an entire talk and I have an accessibility But a good community supports itself and the people who make it up This goes from everything to codes of conduct To mentoring to documentation To your events Do research Reach out And make sure that everything you do Is with humans in mind and with the needs of the humans in your community There's no point in writing code if you don't think about the humans that the code is for And the other humans who are writing the code Sometimes we think too much about the code and the machines And we don't think about the other people And I think that's a big shortcoming of tech and of projects is that we sort of You know we we lose the forest for the trees And we need to step back and look at the community again Because if we're not thinking about the community and the people and all of their needs And sort of the the greater idea of accessibility and not just accessibility as you know our attacks We're really losing some of what we need You know accessibility is everything from making sure that we have food that everybody can eat To the you know the sign language translators She making sure that the signage is You know big enough that everybody can read it She making sure that you have color contrast that everyone can read She making sure that we have wheelchair access to making sure that you know People can get scholarships and that we're you know giving tickets to speakers Everything about making sure that you can get people in the room and that they understand What's going on that you can get people working on the project and that there's no barriers It's about breaking down barriers So just keep that in mind in everything that you're doing So the next thing that I did was I took a look through a handful of popular open source communities To see how they sort of Fulfilled the handful of things that I just broke down All that I did was look through their websites and google I didn't use any of my contacts. I didn't shout out on twitter to say hey You know if such and such community has such and such I didn't do anything like that Um, I didn't I probably dug deeper than the average person would but I didn't use anything that they wouldn't have available to them So let's see how they stack up. Here's wordpress their Community link is make dot wordpress dot org and they're on twitter at wordpress So their code of conduct there is no link to their code of conduct on their home page They do have an events code of conduct But if they have a community code of conduct, I can't find it They have a stack exchange code of conduct They have a code of conduct template for events and meetups and they found a proposed community code of conduct That's a pretty short pretty big shortcoming um I could not find anything about how the project is governed or project leadership Um, there's a link to matt mullinwegg's blog, but that's it. There's nothing about how the actual project is governed or let um As far as events and speakers word camp us is cheap and focuses a lot on accessibility From food and allergies to nursing rooms and childcare They even provide sanitary products in the restrooms at conferences. So that was pretty nice um, the website and social presidents The website's pretty good. I don't have anything negative to say about it But there's really no sense of the community as a whole it's very much about like Wordpress the thing the project and nothing about the people that make it up For ease of entry and contribution there is a nice get involved link on the home page So pretty easy paths to contribution Couldn't really find a whole lot about accessibility other than they do seem to um Be pretty aware of it. So I think um That I meant to put something in there that they they done a pretty good job of it And I think the documentation is pretty extensive and easy to read I didn't really find much about mentorship specifically so wordpress Aside from not having a specific code of conduct. I think wordpress is doing An all right job overall. I would probably Do stuff in the wordpress community if you know if I was thinking Hey, I want to contribute to wordpress and this is what I found I would probably ask about their community code of conduct first But other than that, I feel pretty good about it Kubernetes is another really big one. Um This is their community page at kubernetes.io.com slash community They do have a very prominent code of conduct and they are on twitter Oh, yeah, it's my text went off the thing. Um, so they have a prominent link on their community page to their code of conduct They found absolutely nothing about their leadership anywhere Their events and speakers were sort of it was hard to find anything because there's a lot of like different Like kubernetes events all over the place. So I couldn't really find any like official events Um, so that was kind of tricky The website and social presence they're like it's like pretty jargon filled So if you didn't already know stuff about it, I think you would be pretty Like put off um, it wasn't very like inviting like hey come learn about kubernetes and Like do stuff with us social media was pleasant and informative There's a contribute button in the button in the homepage footer Couldn't really find anything about accessibility wasn't really much out there Again, it was all very like their website was pretty technical Um mentorship and documentation didn't really find anything about mentorship But they had a lot of documentation. So this was a very like technical So unless I was technical and I already knew what I was doing This would probably Put me off which is already kind of my feeling about kubernetes was like I don't really know much about it So i'm just gonna not do anything much So mozilla.org And this is the sort of long link to their code of conduct, which is like they call it their like participation policy But it's very much a good conduct They have a very prominent link to their code of conduct on their community homepage Their leadership they have the mozilla corp and foundation Um, that's all laid out very well They have quite a bit of gender diversity in their leadership, but it's still very white Events and speakers they have a ton of like free and low cost events that are online and around the world So I thought that was pretty good. They have like this huge event list that ranges from like small meetups to bigger things and I had to do some research because they were all presented in their local currency And some of them I thought were thousands of dollars, but they were actually thousands of rupees Which was like 12 dollars. So I was like, oh, hey look, these are really cheap. This is great Um website and social presence. They have extensive websites and social media, all of which I found pretty welcoming, very inviting They um, they actually For use of entry and contribution They use the term volunteering a lot, which I thought was nice. You don't really see that in the open source Broadway use the word contributing a lot mozilla uses the word volunteering more, which I thought was kind of nice It brings it more You get more of a non-profit feel I mean and the mozilla org is a non-profit, but so are most open source projects But um, it gave it more of a traditional non-profit kind of a feel like hey come work with us And they very much had a lot of non-code stuff like That they made very prominent like come volunteer at events help us run events and I I really liked that So they very detailed paths on how to contribute and how to volunteer. I thought that was fantastic um And I think I accidentally copied the same thing into accessibility, but they they're very focused on accessibility all kinds of stuff um And they had tons of documentation and tons of help like mozilla a plus I actually looking at this I was like I could work on mozilla like this is I'm pretty into like how they presented everything. It was really good So I felt like that was a very welcoming community And I have linux There's linux.org And turns out linux does have a code of conduct. I had to google to find that in the linux kernel It's um They recently adopted the contribute a covenant It was hotly debated linux people didn't like it Linus Torvald decided they were going to have a code of conduct though. So he committed it and then they had one um, it's impossible to find Uh linux doesn't have a nice website of all of their documentation. They have um linux.org is just a forum So the code of conduct is just like nested in folders in Inside their git repository So I had to like find the link to that So that was great It is the contributor covenant, which is fine. So like I will give them points for that but It doesn't even it worries me that like people aren't even adopting it if they're like against it like you can't just like militantly Give your project a code of conduct and say like now we have a code of conduct if people aren't going to Agree to it and you also can't just bury it deep in your code and just assume that people are going to find it The leadership of linux foundation is so overwhelmingly white and male. It's depressing Uh events and speakers run by the linux foundation are very expensive. They do offer scholarships Um, but they're very expensive Like I said linux.org is just a forum The foundation has social media. The project does not like the project itself doesn't It's so very old school. Like no social media and no website. They just do their stuff Easy mentoring contribution makes me want to cry. It's impossible. It's designed as such They have this whole rigmarole where you have to like email someone and they send you some tests And you have to like pass all of these coding tests and things Except that that's not even available anymore because they don't want any new contributors So you literally cannot contribute to linux right now Nothing about accessibility no mentorship and any documentation is again buried inside of the actual repository of the linux Colonel so good luck with that and there's dribble So let's see how dribble stacks up. We of course know it's dribble org dribble.org slash dc oc is our code of conduct And we have many different twitter accounts. The dribble project twitter account is just dribble We have a link to our code of conduct in the footer. So it's very easy to find we also have an event code of conduct If you go to the code of conduct page, there is a sidebar with a bunch of stuff about governance and other information Our leadership, um Our structure is fairly typical and clear to anyone who cares to look The dribble association is a nonprofit with a board of directors jerice is on that board Events and speakers dribble con is expensive It's held in western countries We don't pay our speakers and while we do have scholarships. They are a reimbursement strategy Which doesn't really help people get on the plane However, the track teams have been making great strides in diverse pie in the speaker list The dribble con event staff has been improving the conference in terms of general accessibility Prayer rooms quiet rooms pronoun stickers. No photography lanyards and things like that So I do think that our events are of a fairly high quality, but I think we could do a lot better We have a very informative website and a good social media presence with a good social staff I don't know anything about our specific policies because I That's not my job, so I don't work for them But I think they do a pretty good job from the interactions that I've had and observed We have a contribute button fairly prominently on the home page. Um, I think Those paths if if you follow them are pretty good in terms of you know contribution paths Um accessibility is a pretty major initiative and focus Both on the technical side and I think people are really realizing on the human side that it's very important Um, certainly from the event staff and groups like dribble diversity and inclusion I think we're really trying to make that a much um a much more prominent Focus in general in the community And we have, you know the mentor initiative for mentorship, which I think is fantastic You know, we have contrib days at almost every single event with with mentored sprints, which I think is I can't imagine we could do much more in terms of that Um, you know, there's there's mentorship on slack. Um I think You know, like I said at the beginning, I think if there's A gap that exists. It's because the more general community may not feel welcoming I don't think it's because we're not trying hard enough with mentorship And documentation, you know has its own home on dribble.org Of course, there's always missing documentation But as an overall documentation artist architecture, I think we're doing a really good job there So, um, I forgot to put the final slides in here Um, but if you have any questions, we can do some q and a Don't forget to go to the sprints And if you want to review this you have to go through the app And then tap on the The review link and then let's you review it because we can't review them on the website And we have like one minute if there's any questions I think it's not a question, but um, I'd like to say thank you for bringing up the Um, we were talking about how people see your projects And I was thinking about that also from like a personal perspective. How do people see me or or You know, how do we present ourselves, you know, individually? And and I thought that I could relate to that as well. So thank you That was all Yeah, if you want to comment on that, I don't know No, I think it's important. It's something I think about too. Like I think I've been put in You know through You know gdi and being a speaker and being on the truck team I think I've been sort of put in one of those positions of unofficial leadership So it makes me think about you know, how I carry myself and how I acted events and things and either when I'm tired and grumpy I try to be as friendly as I can or I try to you know If I really don't want to talk I try to bow out of conversations like as politely and gracefully as I can Instead of just being like like no, I don't want to talk or things like that And I you know try to have as much of a persona of like friendliness and helpfulness as I can even if I'm not feeling it Because I think it's really important that You know that I do that that I am friendly to people who feel if someone feels comfortable enough to talk to me and come To me then I think it's really important that I interact with that person So I think it is important that we think about how You know, how we are viewed in the community I'm not sure like My my thoughts haven't been finished on this but we are only on a minute When you started talking about You asked us a question. Have you ever experienced or witnessed Hurtful interaction in open source and in Drupal especially I I did I mean I was thinking Of course No matter how Well your code of conduct is and no matter how well you Focus focus on guarding that there will of course always be like people That do that I you can kick them out after the first Happening but you will always always always have that so I was just thinking like You are asking for the worst Experiences because I do I have experienced those things but Overall, I do feel very welcome in the end like it turned for me it turned out in the end So I just wanted to I guess focus on that like it's not all bad There are bad things, but luckily There is still a very big Parts of this community that is welcoming and that is Respectful So Yeah, I guess I just Would like to add that No, I think that's so important and it's a good point that you know Hopefully the good always cancels out the bad But I think part of it is also making sure that we can get rid of as much of the bad as we can You know if everyone is focused on being as welcoming and as inclusive as possible And everyone is thinking about being you know the most polite the most welcoming the most kind that they can be Then we can cut down on as much of the you know the rudeness the dismissiveness the bad behavior as we can and everyone You know if everyone were on their best behavior all the time You know because there are people who have had one really bad experience and it has ruined them for them You know, they've left the community. They haven't felt welcomed. So if we can cut down on that and just Make the community as good as it can be because then when that person tweets about it and someone else sees it And then they're not going to join our community So it's kind of things like that like how are people seeing our community? How are they perceiving it because they're going to perceive it through You know if they're going to perceive it through the eyes of someone who had a bad experience Then that reflects really badly and we can't fix that So if we can just start fixing it at the root and say like This is who we are. This is the kind of people we are we are kind of nice welcoming people We are helpful. We have good then you know, we can just People are going to be people people are going to bad days people are going to be mean it's going to happen But if we can just come from a point of view of hoping that none of that happens I think we can really make ourselves better Yeah, I agree with you 100 of course There's one more issue in my mind I'm a pretty insecure person like and it doesn't show It's kind of like there and I'm like, okay, I see you insecurity But I'm not going to do a lot with you because it doesn't help me, but I do feel it. So I understand from that perspective what that's like and if I'm like a new person and I And I see a project and I read the code of conduct and it's like really strict I'm like, we have to be nice. We have to do this. We have to do that and I'm like, oh my god What if I have a bad day? What if I say the wrong thing? Are they going to be okay with me being human? You know, so I think it's important to also Kind of like let people feel that we're all human And we there's room for that. That's okay That's an interesting point and one I hadn't really thought about that people would feel pressure to be too nice But I'll have to think about that. I hadn't really thought about it Okay, one last question because we're running out of time I just wanted to say thank you I only saw the last part but I what I saw I really liked Maybe one one thing that I observed is We had for example the local Drupal association leaders meeting this week and I think I counted two women and like 29 So while I see a lot of diverse leadership already in Drupal I think especially when it comes to the local associations that I know We have a way to go and I think it would be nice Yeah, if we found ways to collaborate to improve the diversity of leadership in our local communities I agree a hundred percent Okay, thank you everyone. I think the next session is coming in