 Any proposed changes? Comments from the chair? Well, the comments I have, I think are gonna be taken up in items five and six. So, I get, one thing we probably should talk about is the next meeting that we have planned, and we can talk about this again at the end of our meeting, see whether we need to have a meeting. It's basically what I'm getting at. We're not gonna need a Memorial Day. So, I think at the end of this discussion tonight, we can decide if we feel we need to have a place to be narrow, or if we can just, so that's it for my comments from the chair. Unless there's anything else anyone else I wanted to add, general business comments from somebody and from the public about something, not on the agenda, there is no one to be present, so we will move forward to item five. I did go to the start of the presentation on Tuesday for this health issue, and we couldn't muster the court. So then, I'll have to move on to item five, she and I, and everybody else left. Was Bob a member of the committee? No, but he's actually in the same place. Okay, so three non-members. That's it. Fred, did you have a discussion? Well, I, no. I'm just here to discuss things with you. All things happen. Yeah, for me, I was thinking the same thing. Wait, the update after the next meeting, where? Okay, so back to item five, update from the city council presentation. Mike, do you wanna start us off? Sure, I can give a quick update on that. So first, I just wanna say Mike did a fabulous PowerPoint explaining what we've done in the last year, what we're working with, what we do, generally what we're doing to do, and where we would like their support, so we're helpful for framing everything for them, because there's a lot. Yep, a lot of new people. If you're a new councilor, I think there's a lot of different committees to worry in yourself too. Yeah, and just to get, to make sure the council's aware of some of the things that they make assumptions and just don't completely understand, Kevin was in the audience, was kinda watching the reaction of councilors on certain things, and some of them were kinda surprised to see that we were a department of four people, including me, it's like, oh, the planning department's just four people. That's it. So there was those types of things. I thought it was good, I was tired, so afterwards the next day I had to go and just ask Bill, I'm like, that went okay, right? He was like, yeah, we're fine, so. But I thought it went good, gave just kind of an update generally on what the department does, what the planning commission was doing, and then we kinda kicked off a little bit of what we wanted, although we kinda had to pull back a little bit, because the council is doing a strategic planning process this week to work on what they would like to accomplish as the new council. I think it was perfect timing, we presented the desire to prioritize the city plan and then prioritize, I mean, allocate staff resources for working on the city plan and gave a proposal of how we would start to do that right before their strategic goal meeting, so hopefully that will go well for us. Yeah, I think it was good, it was certainly good timing, but we didn't get the opportunity to kinda get a decision back from them that said, yeah, go for it, because they're doing their more strategic work this week and next week and hopefully in a couple of weeks. Yeah, I think we had a pretty good guess as to where people were leaning and what they wanted, so I think they'll see this as a great opportunity, not just for the city plan process, but just for all of their goals, because they really wanna, you know, different counselors have different ideas of what they would like to do, but all of them kinda tie back to the city plan being an opportunity to roll those out and explain how we're gonna accomplish the goal, so. So yeah, I thought it went really well. It's a good segue into item six. Sounds like a good segue. Update on the city plan, so. That's pretty neat, that's something that's very good for the school. Did a lot of the talking, but I did elbow my way into it. Who's the mayor of those? Yeah. Well, Mike was explaining the process that we were envisioning for taking off the city plan, flesh that out a little bit more, also stressed the amount of work that Mike does for us and how their support will be really important. And ensuring that he would have adequate time to work on this endeavor. So it was mostly bolstering the presentation that he provided, but then also elaborating a little bit more about the city plan. Any counselors comment on the city plans in general, or how about the number that we're bringing out? Get into any of the substance. Yeah, we didn't get too much into the substance, but there were, I mean, there were a couple of them that were here from last year's re-approval, so Ashley and Anne and Rosie and Jack McCullough was on the housing committee, so he's familiar with the plan. So I think everybody's got a general familiarity, but none of them have been here to go through an actual re-adoption process. That was pretty profound for you last time. Yeah. But I think that this process will be educational as it unfolds. Oh, yeah. So. I think it will be too. Very, very well. It's a great vehicle. I'm thinking about some of the broad issues that the city has. So to label this, we're now talking about item six, city plan update discussion. So as I mentioned, I able to move my way to the table and introduce myself to the council and explain that we're talking about, we're kicking around this idea that we would advise representatives from the various committees, in fact, the entire committee, to come to a kickoff meeting where they can present their top goals and in a five minute presentation, and then stay afterward and socialize and enjoy your refreshments. And then, kind of on the fly, I realized it would probably be useful if we had two of these meetings because we have one where everyone hears what everyone else's goals are, but maybe we can give them a chance to go back and discuss amongst themselves with our own committees, whether anything can be tweaked or tailored to fit, ductile a little bit normally nicely with some of the other committee's goals, come back together to another all committee meeting, and then we can figure out priorities from there, and I figured that some of this process in the front end will help streamline later. That was my think-o. I suggested that potentially having a second meeting to the city council, and they really liked the idea. They do want us to check in with them, which makes perfect sense, and it seems like that would be a great opportunity to do that after the second all committee meeting. So I wanted to get your feedback on this idea. The council was on board with the concept. It wasn't anything that we needed an official approval for. I just wanted to give them the idea of what we're looking to do. So what would happen at the second meeting? Would there be more discussion, or would it be like, pitching ideas? So I think two things should happen, maybe. More discussion, we would have to structure that, and the way I framed it in the letter, which we can modify in any way we like, but I framed it as you can come forward and say your goals again, if they change at all, but also where your committee thinks that those goals rank in terms of priority for the city goals, now that you've heard what some of the other goals are, just to give everyone a chance to see how theirs fits into the broader picture. It's possible that every committee will say our goal is the number one priority for the city, and we'll have to do it anyway, but I thought maybe giving them the opportunity might be a useful exercise. What others think? I think there's some real value in having everybody hear anybody else's plans. And you're bound to vote some thought, but they're pretty far away, so I like your idea of what those goals look like. If after the first meeting presumably, there's some follow up work for them to do, and that second meeting is a presentation of everything that they've all submitted, but it'd be curated in a way that brings it all together to get the goals we've got, or I don't know. I just don't know if we're gonna be asking too much if we want product as well as, because part of the goal of these meetings is to have people thinking conceptually without being too much attached to their work. I find that once you start actually working on something, it becomes harder for you to be flexible in thought process. So that was one thought. I mean maybe the end of the meeting could be talking about what an actual product is, that they should be doing. That's my only concern with that, otherwise I'd say, yeah, let's do that. We could make it a tentative second meeting. We can discuss the results in the first meeting and list ourselves and decide what we think the meeting would be. I think that makes that the idea of having something else that comes next is helpful, I think, though, for people, so they're not, you say, we're gonna come and talk about goals, they're gonna come and talk about just goals again. I think it can be that, but I think it would be helpful to have at least, it doesn't have to be like a defined product or something that's done, but at least the next step, whatever that is, or some other, like the element piece, so that we're moving, so I don't know what that would necessarily mean. So are we thinking not have the goals like necessarily stated in the first meeting? I think that's important to have it in the first meeting. You think it's important to have it in the first meeting? Yeah. I thought I was hearing that you were moving towards, maybe you had to say, like, asking for them to come back with goals in the second meeting in the first one being more of. I was thinking they might revise their goals, but maybe not, maybe that's not worth, maybe it's more confusing. Well, I mean, following up on Stephanie's, maybe the proposal would then be on the second meeting to revise your goals and then to start thinking about what would be some of the strategies you might use to implement those goals, just to start to get them thinking about those next steps. So it's not rehashing the same thing. It is a little bit, but we're kind of taking them to that next level, which will be, all right, now let's start thinking strategically. If you're economic development, what would you do to, you know, if your goal is to create more jobs or to create more, whatever, what is it, what's your thing that you're gonna do to help to move that forward? Or energy, or transportation, or housing? So we wanna reframe the goals piece and say, or maybe, how about this? What if the letter says we invite you to come in the second paragraph? At the kickoff meeting, we ask that you are a representative, and I have some template language here from your committee, present that committee's top three goals for the next 10 years in a five-minute presentation. So I think there's some, I put some common bubbles here to say, do we wanna ask for a range of goals, three to five goals, or limited three? And what do you think is the appropriate timeframe? 10 years or 20 years? So I think based on this conversation, we could say top three goals or however many number we wanna do for the next 10 years or whatever length of time we wanna do, but we could say in terms of, we could use the language to involve, maintain, transform of how, I think we need to explain that a little bit in the letter too though, if we're gonna use that. Yeah. If we wanted to, instead of using the word goals, we wanna pick a timeframe and say, in Montpelier in 10 years, what would your committee like to see different? Like pick three things that are gonna be different about Montpelier in 10 years, and frame them in terms of like, what are they maintaining, evolving or transforming something about our community? I like that it's more, what's the content and not, can we make sure it's exact, go online, do a little more concrete, it just feels like a nice, one of the concepts that we're trying to get to. And then the second meaning could be, pick one of those goals or whatever you wanna call them, and do a five minute presentation on the strategy with measurables of how we do it for those. We might get there and then. Or just what are, what are measurable targets for those? How will we know that that will have happened that we will accomplish wherever you want it to change? Mike, give them that for all of the committees. Most of them. Giving them the basic idea of what we're trying to accomplish. Not within this context for all of them, but most of them have heard the speech. About language? Yeah, but they really haven't, I really haven't spent a lot of time kind of teaching them. I mean, given the idea of what we had thought about when we were gonna do this two years ago. So. Well, I think that's a big part of the all community. One everybody over with your elephants. That's what it's about. Yeah. Well, there hasn't been a lot of time to follow up with them to. Yeah, I know. Or else they're deciding that. Because you got it, yeah. But if that's the case, then I think you gotta carry this thing up. This is what a city plan is. Those means to get there and we need something to measure it. And that's critical about your style of planning. Tell me what you want. Tell me how you're gonna get there. And don't just put your hands in there. Yeah, there's a lot of hand holding to force people not to, you know, and that's for all of us to not take the easy road and just say, oh, we'll encourage it. Or we'll market it. Maybe at the beginning and end of the first meeting, we should have lost some time for Mike and the planning mission to address those expectations. And I also agree, I think Leslie said earlier about explaining out in the way that John described it, some concrete things that will better what expectations are about those goals in this letter. I think the better we explain in the letter, the very first letter about this, the more they're going to provide us what we want. Mike, how do you want to see this city develop and your interest in staying away from the goals that makes people in a super world and not very far along in that process that you want to work with? So for the tedious task of editing, I'm just curious what language we want to use for getting away from top three goals. What do we want to replace it with? I think we'll put some things kicking around, but I'm not sure I know how to edit this right now. Yeah, I can try editing right now if you want. Sounds like educating and then asking for the first meeting makes sense. Then for the second meeting, asking for framework, whatever we recall it. Indicators. Yeah, okay, sure. Yeah, what are the benchmarks? What was the terminology you used within the plan to do goals and then what term did you use for the things to get to the goal? Yeah, we had strategies for the second set and those were really kind of breaking into which I presented to council, which was into those permits, programs, projects, policies, so we're kind of breaking things into those, how do you actually plan to accomplish those goals? Is it through regulations? Is it through one-time projects? And I think we don't have to necessarily get into all the nuts and bolts, but we could certainly for the second meeting when we send out the second letter. I don't think we have to describe fully how we would have the second meeting in this letter. I would think we could just go and say in the second meeting we're gonna have one where we talk about the concepts of how we would implement or we would be asking you to come in and give a presentation and how you'd implement one of your goals and we would give them not necessarily those specific things, would you do it through regulations? We could do, I think, more leading questions. Would you do it through regulations? Would you do it through a program? Would you do it by? Well, I think we could present that concept in the end for the first meeting. Mm-hmm. So, ultimately, we're supposed to pull all these things together in this planning commission. To be the second meeting is to find these goals and combat them. You know, I can see a lot of role in that, and I can see conflict. It's how it always is, so I imagine it will be. And I'd like to know what the conflicts are. That's what we need to come in. So ask them to identify goals that they see as incompatible with the one that they're advancing. Well, we have our necks, and we're more about health. Transportation and energy? No, we have those in there. Rowsing in? Yes, through the preservation of these. Fallen, fallen. Housing, which I don't think it does, but I'm a separate unit. So now I'm crashing out and seeing what it's really about for goals and conflict, and if it is real to what extent. Instead of asking me about conflict, can we ask about common ground now? Can we ask, like, how can pastoral preservation help housing, help them housing? Well, I'm saying, I just think it's going to end, and we're left. So when we get the goals we're going to want to call it, we're going to have to say, well, A is A, and B is B, and we've got to talk to these people, because we're inviting them, and it's really sad. We're not the charge of the end of the first meeting. So now you've seen these other committees where you see places where you can collaborate with the semi-groups. All right. And then I'll ask you to come up, and talk to them about support, recognizing that we all have to be in the same challenge together. That's the first moment for them to start thinking about what each group is trying to do and how to move forward. What I had was put the second meeting and then we talked about implementation strategies to probably better for a second letter, like what you were saying, not to try to kind of think of the first one, but I think it might be worthwhile to try to give the categories of implementation tools, like regulations, ones you mentioned. I think a lot of folks might immediately go to regulation and think in that world, and to maybe force people to think about using a variety of tools to get to their goals, require something to be addressed in every, like pre-set of categories that we pull out. So, and you know what those are, right? We would, you know, kind of do broad categories. Yeah. I think it would be good to give that kind of format and ask for feedback on those categories. So those. We could, I mean, the other thing, it's depending on how we structure the meeting. I mean, we've got the presentations from the different committees and depending on how much of the time it takes. If there are any breakout groups or whether that's maybe at the second meeting, we work more or have a session where we have got great people into groups that's where you can try to ask people to think about things in different. You know, think about how you, you know, how would you address this? If you had to address this through regulations, but now think about how you would address this through a program, think of, think outside the box, would, is there a program or a project that you could do to accomplish the same thing? You know, we can require everybody to update their windows or we can give a tax credit to people who do that. It's not a requirement, but, you know, we're doing that with the sprinklers. We had a sprinkler requirement that was obviously regulatory and then we also had sprinkler tax credits to try to encourage people to do it. How they eliminated the regulatory one for homes, but the tax credit piece is still out there. So there's still an incentive for people to go through and put in sprinklers into their homes. And there's a lot of those that certain ones have an easier time. You know, transportation's easy to find. Regulation that works for transportation and a program that works because the CIP program are replacing a bridge as a project. So there you go. We want to put in bike lanes. We have the side money and we put in a bike lane. There's no regulation. So they'll have easier ones to go through, but I think some of the other ones might be more challenging. You don't have to get some of the bonds. Our process after the second meeting, they're gonna have to know that the buck stops here at least as far as passing it out to the council. And we told the council that was, that was part of my presentation last week was to let the council know that part of this is deciding who's handling what piece, public transportation. Is that transportation committee? Is that energy committee? Is that community services? Somebody has to be responsible for planning for that. And ultimately the planning commission is gonna be the arbiter of those areas where there's conflict, where energy committee might wanna see those old historic windows get replaced while historic preservation wants to protect them. Somebody's gonna have to be the one. We'll make the first round of recommendations and we gave them the heads up. They will be the ultimate arbiter of what our policies are going to be. But I don't think we don't need to worry too much about because I think there's gonna be few of those conflict points but they're gonna come out. Is this, would it make sense for the second meeting to be more of a like a community wide meeting rather than just the community? We can do anything we want. We can have four meetings. We can have 10 meetings. The two suggestions from the council, one was that they thought maybe we would benefit from a facilitator rather than having us do it. And then the second one was that there was concern that while we were working a lot with committees we weren't doing enough to do public input. Right. And whether different, whether there's a different avenue for that or this is built into this one. Right. So if the second one is more of a community wide one facilitated by someone like a Paul Costello. Yeah, I mean I can certainly ask them to explain that as part of their presentation. Would it make sense to do the, we talked about using the second meetings to flesh out implementation. And then for, once after that meeting it seems like this group will have a lot of information to kind of consolidate. Once we kind of put a draft together we possibly have a public meeting on that. It's the same. This is what we put together from everything we've got gathered so far from the committees. And it started the public stage at that point. What about this? I like what everyone's saying. I'm just gonna reshuffle it a little bit. Did you want that? Yeah, I know. Well we're bouncing off each other's helpful. So the first meeting I think we kind of all, we have to fine tune it but I think we've got the concept down. The second meeting could be inviting public and have more of a community wide discussion about the goals for the city at that point. And the third meeting could be developing the strategy for measuring whether those goals have been achieved in any way and then we would have that to work with. That way we'll have the public input before we'd spend the time working on the strategy. One thing that would be supportive of having a third meeting being about implementation would be if the committee's longer. Which could be a concern for some of the committees. So that again. If they would have longer between the goals coming up with the implementation. We can do this as much as we can. I mean I could just send an update to the council and we've decided to add in a couple extra meetings. But the concept that I pitched was that more process upfront is probably gonna help us streamline later so they seem supportive of that. I think after we have all this information and we've identified where the conflict points are and how we can present what are conceptual recommendations are to the city council priorities for the city. And get their feedback before we tell everyone, okay let's start really thinking in. One thing I've noticed through my day job is that people are asked kind of in the abstract to comment on something. You get like those sort of feedback. But if you put like a document in front of them to respond to oh my goodness you get all the feedback. So if we can think about that if whenever we do reach out to the public giving them something to respond. If our goal is to rather just kind of get a feel for things and have it be kind of not reactionary. Maybe not put something in front of them. But I think we would get a lot more feedback. We'd probably get more stronger opinions if we put something in front of people. So just like some of this is something to remind depending on what we want from the public. I think we need to pull together a draft. Yeah the problem though, you just have to balance that with the perception that we've made our minds up already. Having something that looks really polished can be a bit off putting. And I think the amount of time it's gonna take to put together a draft. I think we do need to have something. But I think if we're focusing on our goals and aspirations and just trying to get those ideas out to the public and start to say this is where we wanna go. Because ultimately we're gonna have to sit down and take a lot of time to actually put together the writing of the document. When it starts putting pen to paper and reviewing it with committees and stuff it's gonna take a lot of time. But we do wanna get their input early in the process so the public helps to set the direction. If we think, oh we're gonna go over this way and they're really not gonna be interested in having that be a policy. Kirby's point as well, thank you. It's a- It's the same thing you may buy, you'll pay attention to that. It is, it's a catch 22 though. It's not- If you don't have it there then- It's maybe not a great strategy to make people alarmed about what the planning commission's up to. But if you were to put out a proposal that looks kind of official as you were saying, you will get the most feedback that way because people will be motivated by the concern that this is really going to be pushed from the people down. You can put out a lot of the committee's ideas from the first meeting and ours and say here's what we heard. What do you like, what don't you like and what are we missing? That way we're not starting with, sure we should throw out any horrible ideas right away probably. But something tells me we're not going to get too many horrible ideas and get a sense of where people's priorities are. How would we put that out though? I mean I think that's the piece that we've got to figure out. The devil's in the details. And we don't want to have a draft of the city plan, obviously. But we don't want to have something that's too abstract, we won't get any feedback on it all. So maybe we're going to be working on this public document portal, for lack of a better word. We could use that. We just got to figure out how to present the information in a way on that. Whether it's through a memo. Everyone loves memos, right? Well, sorry, I'm a lawyer, I write memos. Maybe not memos. Like a bullet list of what the goals are. You want a map, I want a memo. I'm excited. I don't want to have to see it. But I think the point of having something of respect and responsibility, that's something that's fun, that makes me nervous, that makes something that's like concrete. And I never practically speak in word. Practically speaking, we're so far from that human being possible. That's awesome. But an outline that looks real or looks like these are what, the goals are, it looks like the goals will be at this stage. Yeah, we have one page. For a second meeting, I think we could have that from the first meeting, from someone who's made work. We have something that people can respond to, but also say that this is a moment of, well, we can give them an outline of, this is what our process is gonna look like with here. We'll have these other opportunities for you to get involved, so that they know what's coming. So it's not like a draft of the, I don't know where it came from. But I think, think of it's there. I think if we had, even if it's just a one page, not really type, but if it was just, that describes each of the committees that came up, what ended up coming out from the parks committee? What came out from the conservation committee? These were their goals and this is what they wanted to accomplish in the next 10 years. Now what does the public think about that? And you might hear from people like Ozen says, all the parks committee ever cares about is Hubbard Park. We wanna see parks that aren't Hubbard's park and we wanna see parks that are in my neighborhood. And that's great. That's the input we would wanna hear from the public is don't worry about that. And if the goals for the parks committee were Hubbard Park, Hubbard Park, Hubbard Park, that might be a valuable thing to hear back is, well, maybe we need to think a little less about that. I don't think that's their goal. I actually think their goal is actually the exact opposite. They are trying to get, to reach out to these other neighborhoods. And- Is it an example only? That's an example only, yes. But I mean, it's the same idea. You know, what transportation committee, how they prioritize, they see, look, our big thing is to prioritize complete streets and getting the bike lanes. And if you hear more from people that says we're actually more concerned about expanding and building on our sidewalk network or parking is the most important thing, then okay, we could take that under advisement. But I think if we had just a brief thing for each of the committees, the public would have something to react to, to go and say, this is what we hear from the committees. What does the public think of the committee's ideas? What if in between, after we have sort of an initial kickoff with the committees, we have an opportunity like a one-question survey that goes out that asks people, you know, what would they wanna maintain of all their transform so that we collect those ideas. When we present them, it's not just the committees, it's like the committees and anyone from the public who can submit at any time. We can collect those in the centralized place. The last play, I mean, it's really maybe it's only similar. There's not many meetings they have, none of the samples. So if we can promote, you know, alternative forms, ways for people to participate that aren't necessarily meetings which don't work for everybody. Yeah, I mean, now that I have a young child, I'm realizing why a whole demographic is missing during that hour, it was two hours. But I think the maintain, evolve, transform is a good basis to work from. But I think a lot of the comments that we heard in the zoning process, a lot of it came back to not trying to change my neighborhood. There was a lot of that maintain. And we don't want that to come across as being a negative thing. It's like, you guys just wanna change everything. It's like, well, no, now there's the opportunity to go and say, if there are things you don't wanna change, that's as valuable as hearing about the things that you do wanna have changed. So. Right, and be specific. Don't say you wanna maintain the character. Of your neighborhood. Of your neighborhood. That's the most useless thing anyone could tell us. What about your neighborhood? All right, so let's see where we are. The first meeting we're gonna ask the committees to have a representative give a presentation of areas that they would like to see maintained, evolved, or transformed. It would limit that to three to five items. We'll also give them a little bit of an overview of how to use that language. I think we're gonna have to do it in a letter if we want them to do that at the meeting itself. So I can take a crack at it and send it to you for editing, because I'm probably gonna get something wrong. And then at the end of that meeting, we'll say, okay, we're going to take what you told us today and write up summaries that we're gonna send out. Or no, you think that we should just do a survey without like a cold one? Yeah, I mean, we can put all of that up what those responses were, but then we can also, people can see those, but they can also just... Put out a cold survey? With some introduction to here's creating a plan, but I don't think I'll hold off necessarily. So we can do that simultaneously. How do we find a lot of people know about how to do this? I think from Port Form will get us pretty far. There's a lot of people in Port Form. I assume we could post a link on the... Then we'll send Kim to what a door. Yeah. Yeah. There's something here. You were volunteered to go to the North. Second. No. No. That's what I missed. I assume we could put a link on the city website and then we could put a from Port Form reminding people of it. Yeah. And a call to a reporter. But the first no. Yeah. The first no. Mm-hmm. In the second meeting, is that, where do we sit alone for that? Are we gonna do more public input there or are we gonna just take public input, not in the meeting? And do a second meeting, talk about strategies for getting, accomplishing this process? It depends on the form of the second meeting after we have the first. If we move towards like, I'm sorry, I was just gonna say, I like still having a second meeting for public input. Even if it's just to go and say, this is what we've heard from the survey so far. Give people, and some people, give people multiple venues to provide comment and still use that as an opportunity to get more. I think that the United Plan could be good for that. Brett, I don't hear that. There's a focus, but, so it's not huge, but I don't think we're gonna have, if we were to set the stage there, I don't think we'd be able to get some of the facilitator and ask about, if you go through the goals as they look like they are now, like if you go that way, goal by goal, or have people go around with their stickers. Yeah, that's the most just picturing people. Yeah, each committee has its own little section in the room and they have to convince the public that their goals are the same. So someone has to be standing there and talking about it. Some sort of breakout like that, I think it could be a couple. I think it could start with the, okay. What is that other? The churris. Extra sense, what's that? What is that? It's a more urban design, I guess it is. That doesn't tell me much at all. So. Like trying to have some sort of design problem and figure something out. Oh, I'll send you a comment. It's a problem. I'll send you a comment. You get a hypothetical to start to work on and it's supposed to start to get you thinking about how to, it's kind of an education slash public, it helps to educate the public on, here's your map, how would you, where would you put the 100 new houses? If you had to put 100 new houses in town, where would you put them in? And so you start forcing people into different scenarios where they've got to start to think about, do we put a couple in every place or do we put them all in one place? So, for our second meeting, I mean, I know Kim's opinion is that we should probably wait and see how the first meeting goes, which is a valid opinion, obviously, and maybe that's what we want to do, but the other suggestions I'm hearing are, we could invite the entire community to a big place like the Union School Auditorium and have an initial presentation about what we've learned from the survey results and how that correlates with what we've heard from the committees in the all committee meeting, give, have more of a general opportunity for people to give feedback or after that presentation, we could then say, okay, we're gonna have the committees in different sections of the room and they're gonna be able to talk more about why this is something they want to see over the next 10 years and you can go visit them so that way people can go from one place to another. I do think there's value in having something like that, maybe not as a second meeting, but at some point where people can wander around and really understand why this should happen or why these goals are conflicting or just what are doing more deep insight and if you can access any committee at one time or stop shopping, it might be really useful. So that being said, I don't think we have a clear direction of what we wanna do for the second meeting. We can just have, we can have an incentive plan and then give it from them. Yes. And then the first goes and then they're going to be expected. Yeah, we can be vague and say we'll present next steps and get public input. It seems that no matter what at some point, there will be an implementation oriented meeting with the committee, right? Yeah, so that's the third meeting. That would be the third meeting, yeah. We're still gonna have a second-dish public meeting and a third-ish implementation meeting. Yeah, I just think if I can be as detailed as possible in the initial outreach, then it's gonna save me from having to respond to a lot of emails and phone calls because people will understand what the process is going to be. Think of that first letter as just being as bold and as please present your ideas at the first meeting using these three terms, you know. Yeah, you have three slides and three minutes. Five minutes, three. Isn't there a lot of committees? That's a question for Mike. Yeah, I'll have to go and, every time I start to write them down, I always end up with keep finding more. Three minutes is good. Okay. And then we transition, that puts us up like five, right? Yeah. And I'll have to send slides ahead of time so we can have a long one. They're just like going, they're on a timer. Yeah. This is transportation, your energy's still talking. We're already on transportation, so just... We asked them to get, they'll have like an on deck thing and they have to stand on deck. You have to slowly walk those times. All right, obviously we're gonna put Stephanie and John in charge of... The planners are good at finding events. Yeah, I don't think we do need a facilitator. I could be the... MC. I could be the MC. We're all here today, folks, and then Stephanie's gonna hold you to the clock. I'm gonna switch the slide when you're done. When I decide to... I hate sitting in a dark looking screen and some disembodied voice talking. Yeah, well, I mean... I don't know how you're gonna plan that. Well, it can't be this, because I... It can't be this. I'd like you to add your somewhere else, maybe a smaller... Make sure they're standing right next to me. Yeah, but then we... I'm gonna shout out... Three slides is a good idea. Three ideas, three slides. I don't think we can get away from the PowerPoint altogether, Kim, which is I think where you're going. But, oh, I think there needs to be some visual errors. Exhibits. If you've got a presentation... If you've got a place where you can do presentations that's set up for it, you don't have to be in the dark. I mean, you can watch any of the... Ted Talks. Ted Talks. And, you know, they're not all standing in the dark. They're standing in the light and they've got PowerPoints going behind them. It's just a matter of getting the lighting correct on the screen. Yeah. So, where can they have it? I don't know the facilities here. There might be some here. I don't know what VCFA has. I don't know how good the pavilion last nation presentation is. I think the planning department should check this out and find out how we can have an effective... If we want the slide to look at a very specific way, and since I've got one template now we can present it with the exact same thing, or just says committee name one for five and remember that one for others. So, it's not like a huge paragraph. It's just two lines of text in your committee name. I like being able to see the speaker have a person visible or something's going on. I'm giving that a place out, but I... I think the auditorium just have the lights on at this stage. So, I think it's... Well, we've probably got a lot of negotiations for the last nation. So, I volunteered to call venues and I haven't. So, I'm wondering if someone else wants to volunteer for the child. Because it's available. I can see it. And I've got a lot of letter writing. I can't make any promises that the lighting's gonna be the candidate. Well, I don't know. It sounds like there's a pretty high standard. It sounds fair. It makes us a herd of such a place. Well, I've seen... I've been to places where they've had presentations and you're not standing in the dark. I do think the education department... Do you think... The only concern is that it's dark enough to see what's on the screen. Yeah, unless there's a place that's got a large screen television there. I think I know what our first goal is. You think they can bring their lights? Yeah. And that's up there. Sir, I think we could say you're in disorder. You need one person for your committee and if this person's on you, they have five minutes or you need to be up here so they can go next. It's a quick transition. And now, you're number 12. I just have to hold the audience's attention and you have to be able to have a good visual. So do we have a projector available? I think we'd have to look at what the location is. We can get projectors, probably. We've got... The planning department has one that's now, I think, on loan over at the senior center. Do we have a portable screen? We do, but it's not... It depends how big you're looking at it. So how do we prefer that it has that stuff? There's movie night on the state lawn in the summer. How are we doing that? Ha ha ha. That's... That's the equipment that we need, right? Right on the state house. Well, yeah. But I mean, that's the equipment that we need is for that. So I'm assuming Montpelier Alive puts that event on. So maybe just a call to Montpelier Alive could give us what we need about the equipment we have available. Yeah, and Groberg may have some ideas. I mean, a projector can go onto a wall as long as it's white. So if we have a good wall and we don't need it to screen. But... Oh, the union school might be better. It may, but I was just asking to see if we... If we're flexible if we can run our own or not. Oh, may or might I have a point of view on this? Yeah, it's going to be a small projector on this guy. Well, I mean, excuse me, that's our business. Projection. Educating people. Oh, yeah. Projection. That's another story. That's our next... That's our first city goal. Okay. It is a presentation space. Someone, we can't do anything. Don't tell us to screen. So for the first meeting, you want people to watch a projector that... We want to do, yeah. I can find a venue where that's possible. I think we can make it. Okay. We'll need a second projector to say who's on deck, but we can handle that. Someone in the back, can you tell the cards of that, like how much time you have left? What about like law school when you have the... Does that person also have the button? No, next. Place or play music? Yeah. Well, we have some fine-tuning to do for our first meeting, but I think we'll manage. Okay, so you'll check into equipment and venue. And I think that the timing for this, the last week in June at the earliest, because we have to give everyone an awful notice. Okay. Yeah. So June or July? Yeah. See what availability is. And what day of the week in time do people think would be good? I mean, nothing's going to be perfect for everyone. So we could do it at this time, Monday evening at our usual time, but that might not be... I think that's the way to do it. Yeah. I mean, it's good to get sort of cluttered. You're meant to be retired. I'll be cluttered. Okay. So I guess, you know, our meeting time would be June 25th. So June 25th, or I don't have another calendar. And I'll keep my fingers crossed. It's usually hanging time, but I'll keep my fingers crossed that it... Actually, I'm supposed to be on that week. Let's... We appreciate the July. Okay. And then July 2nd. Probably sounds like a, yeah, not a good day. Well, we're second and fourth, so... I'm going the first two weeks of July. I'm going the first two weeks. I'm going the first two weeks. I'm going the first two weeks. So... Second or fourth Monday in July? So July 9th or 23rd. Second and fourth is not at 9th and 23rd. There's also a fifth Monday in July. Not that... I think we want to push the late in July. I'll shoot for July 23rd in that mall. Yeah. Let's see. What if we do an off week for us? What about July 16th? Oh. That's DRB. Development of the board. We're inviting them. We'll just cancel their meeting. Yeah. I think the commission could do that, right? You're appointing our plan for us. July 23rd or 30th or 30th thing about that day. Oh, right, because the DRB doesn't meet us. So we're going the first two weeks. So we're going the first two weeks. I don't know anything about that day. Oh, right, because the DRB doesn't meet on the fifth. Right. Yeah, nobody meets on the fifth. Okay. The 23rd or 30th. Thank you, Kirby. Yes. I think my turn is up. Everybody's going to get reappointed. We'll get kicked out for the next month. You're all getting reappointed. Literally do wrong. In October? Uh... What's the point? Was there a charter change? Yes. Because what we've had in the past for the charter was that everyone gets appointed for two years, regardless of when you get appointed. So it's not like a seat that everyone... we're going to reappoint in the June meeting. And, you know, if somebody leaves in October, they're reappointed to finish out that seat for the next year or two years or whatever's left. That's not the way the charter's written now. Is the charter extended because of the charter change? They're going to go through and reappoint everybody's seats. So, everybody... presumably they're going to reappoint most of everybody, I would think. Yeah, and they're going to go back and stagger everybody and have a conversation. Do we know who's up now? I think that... I mean, I haven't heard, but I know if the legislature's going out, I assume they've approved our charter change. So, probably in the next few weeks, the council's going to go through and reappoint because they've got to redo the DRB as well, who's really messed up. So, they've got nine members of a five-seat commission. So, yeah. They've got plenty of alternates for any applications. Just like a house gets cluttered after a while. Got to clean it up. Yeah. Okay. So, the next thing is, do we want to talk about technology in the context of this letter? It sounds like the letter itself is going to have enough to address without talking about how we're going to file sharing. So, we can do that verbally at that meeting. Present it at the meeting. Okay. I did talk to Seth beforehand and where we ended up allowed us to say Seth could go home because I think it necessarily would have had a lot to go over, although we didn't ask about if we have any web options for public input. We could follow up and ask. The upshot, though, was that Seth will create essentially a folder on the city's Google Drive and then give me edit ownership over that folder for which I can add everyone so that they can edit it. And within it, we can create essentially a framework in the form of either forms or Google Sheets or how we want these different elements of the planned structure. So, part of it will be the what. So, the goals and measurable objectives. And then the how. So, actions, policies or strategies or whatever you want to call them. And then identify with all of those what do we need to know. Is it going to cost money? Who's going to do it? When is someone going to do it? Is it a high priority to a low priority? Right. Collect things in a systematic way and then allow all the committees to have their own if they'd like. And we can just have them all funnel into a single place so that you can see which ones are actually could be combined or it also allows this to be totally transparent. So, we can allow anyone to have a view access to what's in there and also the other part of this was to create essentially a site like a page for the plan that we could all control and add to and edit fairly easily and quickly. So, that could be a landing page for anyone to go either to find out about what's happening or to provide input. Also a place for all these other documents like the Economic Development Strategic Plan that was developed or the the NITS-0 Montpelier plans. They can all have one centralized place where you can go get a lot of that background information. That's great. Are there questions or thoughts or concerns about that? I got this because I didn't know anything about it. It sounds like we haven't had anything to do with it. Yeah. In the next meeting, you can give us a quick tutorial of how you're budgeting it working and then we can provide that for the all committees. We'll just make sure we all understand it first. Yeah, throw some drafts around if anyone else wants to try to tackle that initial piece with me, let me know. So here's what I see as the next steps for this. So I'm going to redraft this letter and send it first to Mike because I'm going to be introducing the language of maintaining and transforming the wealth and I'm going to want to make sure I've described it correctly. I will send it to the group but we're going to need the venue information before I send it out anyway. So I think I'm going to ask you to take a look at the letter draft for my identity but also if you can put together a list of all committees we need to send it to, that would be very helpful. Kirby's going to work on finding a venue for July 23rd and 30th. John's going to work on shared doc stuff. Stephanie are you up for drafting some language for a survey? Sure. We could all work on or take a look at the next meeting because we're thinking about sending that out, making that available to the public simultaneously with our first meeting so it doesn't need to be for our next meeting but I just wanted to put it in the radar but I don't think there's anything else. I think you're just funny. Can you be my cheerleader? Well you're going to historic preservation, you've got a lot. I think that's it. Is there anything else that you want to think of with this? Okay. More of a problem than that. Okay, so next item. Okay, there you go. Item 7. Consider minutes from April 23rd. Kim just moved approval. Can we have a second? I'll second. Okay, discussion. Kirby has a comment. I'm just going to point out that it says that I had talked to Eric from preservation and Eric wants the committee which I've interpreted to mean as a historic preservation committee to provide guidance for historical preservation. I don't recall Eric saying that I don't recall saying that exactly. It may have been I wasn't being very clear what I was saying but just to clarify for everyone in case they have that impression. Well... Eric and I just talked about opportunities for historic preservation to be used to work with us in the future the topic we were talking about is to address affordable housing and stuff like that. Probably just let these and then make it in here. So if you have... I don't... there doesn't need to be a change. Well, we want them to be accurate and if there are some things... Yeah, it's a little big. I would say... I would say just... instead of Eric wants to say Eric is interested in working with the planning commission going forward. Oh, okay. So... Okay, we'll do that. Any other discussion? All those in favor of Kirby's motion? It's still on the table. Okay. Kim and John are still on the table. John, is your second... I was wondering if we needed to... Is your second still applied to the... to approve the minutes that's been... Okay. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. They're amended and approved. Final item is adjournment. Do I have a motion? Okay, all those in favor? Aye. Okay, we are adjourned.