 Welcome to another episode of End the Zone. I am your host, Chris Broussard. We have a terrific show for you today. We are going to interview Mike Wise, a longtime NBA writer with the New York Times, Washington Post, now the undefeated. We'll get some great stories out of Mike Wise. Look, knock down Jay. I hate to tell you I knock down Jay too hard. He had to take a break. He couldn't make it in this week. He's on vacation with his family in Hawaii resting up getting his wounds healed up from getting beat down too much or knock down Jay. But we'll get him back here in a few weeks. And of course, as always, we are going to start the show with my top five. So look, we're about to start the second half of the NBA season. So of course, the logical top five is one of the biggest five storylines of the second half of the season at number five. Joel Embiid's health. That's right. It's a huge story for several reasons. Look, he is the best big man in basketball. That's right. I said it. Joel Embiid's the best big man in basketball. But the question is, can the brother stay healthy? He is beginning to play in back to back games, which is great. But will he be able to stay on the floor consistently through the remainder of the season at number four? Oklahoma City and their improved play. Look, they've been up and down all season long. They caught fire in mid December when 18 and six over their next 24 games. Then they lost six of nine. So they're kind of a roller coaster ride, but I kind of like what I see because when it's time to turn it up, they turn it up to the max. They're two and oh against Golden State, two and one against Houston. And the big question, of course, the big storyline is can they play well enough together to keep Paul George in Oklahoma for at least one more season? Remember, he doesn't have to opt out. He can stay there for one more year and play with Russell Westbrook. At number three, Kawhi Leonard and the San Antonio Spurs. This is usually drama free territory down in the Alamo, but no, not anymore. Greg Popovich came out and said he would be surprised if Kawhi Leonard played at all the remainder of the regular season. That is stunning. I mean, that he'd be shocked if Kawhi comes back. Look, he is out indefinitely with this mysterious quad injury, but here's what's going on. The Spurs, they'll tell you that Kawhi, they think he just doesn't want to get on the floor unless he is absolutely positively 100% healthy and that goes way back beyond the quad injury. That's just how Kawhi has been throughout his career. Kawhi, on the other hand, feels like why are you pushing me to get out on the floor when I'm not yet ready? You pushed me in the first half of the season and you saw what happened. After nine games, I had to shut it back down. So stop sweating me like I'm just sitting out because I don't want to play when really I'm still injured. At number two, you know, we had to get to Lanzo ball, Lavar ball, and I'm going to add somebody else in. Isaiah Thomas, IT 4. Look, the Lakers were rolling without Lanzo or IT, playing their best ball in the season with Lanzos on the bench. Then they trade for IT. They're riding a four game win streak. IT gets in there, got his powers back, drops 22 in game one. But oh, they lost and they lost again and then they lost again. And they're on a three game losing streak since Isaiah Thomas is back. My question is how will Isaiah and Lanzo work together? Lanzo is supposed to be back in the second half of the season. So how does Isaiah's presence impact Lanzo ball? We know he's the point guard of the future, but Isaiah is trying to impress. He's trying to shine so he can get that big contract this summer. So it's going to be interesting to see how those two work together. Even if they not on the floor together and number one speaking of LeBron James, the Cleveland Cavaliers improvement. I love the trades that they made. I love them even before they went out and beat Boston and Oklahoma City. But I love the fit of these new players that they have. So the question is the number one storyline is can they improve to the degree that they can challenge the Golden State Warriors? The question is not, will they win the East? I'm telling you, they will roll through the East. But can they challenge Golden State? Give them at least a tough six game series. And who knows? The Warriors are not looking like they used to look right now. Maybe Cavs, the Cavs and LeBron can pull off the upset. If the Cavs do play well, do push Golden State. Who knows? Maybe upset Golden State. You would think LeBron James would just stay in Cleveland and try to keep winning in his hometown or his home region of Northeast Ohio. So keep an eye on the number one storyline. The Cavaliers improvement over these final 20 some odd games. All right, guys, now look, did I miss anything? I hit you with five. I threw out Hayward as well. You may have other stories though that you think we should keep an eye on in the second half of the NBA season. So tell them to me in the comments. Type them in there. We will look at them and then you never know. We might address you on in the zone. All right. Here we are with a man that I go way back with Mike Wise. We worked together at the New York Times, but we met in 1996 at the San Antonio, the all star game in San Antonio. Yes. And you were at the Akron Beacon Journal at the time covering the Cavaliers and we and we forged a bond through basketball. Actually playing basketball when I could and I think Chris still does. But yeah, yeah, we had a nice game though, man. Thank you. Thank you. I'm telling people don't sleep on you. Yeah. A lot of people they consider it like Mckeskey slash Tron Bradley. And you have to go back for that reference. But we had some good competitive media games. I remember we met. I think it was Trinity College in San Antonio. Yes, I just happened. It was my first all star game. First year on the beat. I just happened to see a flyer that there's like a media run at Trinity College. I ain't know any media hardly and I show up and you Sean Powell who's now with NBA dot com was Stein Matt Steinman. So I'm sure he was Curtis Bunn, but I never played with Bunn. But you are a calendar. Tell under I've played with but he wasn't at that one. Bunn I heard with Dunk Bunn used to cover the Knicks for Yeah, he was dunking in games and stuff like that. Yeah. And Stephen A would show up occasionally to and literally would not see the ball. I'm talking 20 minutes. Can Stephen A hoop I play with him. I want to I want to get your opinion. I mean hoop is like a that's a pejorative. I don't know what you would call that way what he does. He shoot look if he plays in a real competitive game with guys who play Dean now he could shoot a little bit. He could shoot a little bit of this and you know but look there was some guy from Washington. I don't even remember him Tom not remember the guy. He had like I heard of he had like bags under his eyes. He looked like basically he crawled out of a crypt and this guy shut Stephen A down and it killed him and I don't Kevin. Oh Stephen A was the greatest moment about Stephen A was when Rick Tellender used a page of the Chicago Sun Times to say who were the best media players and Stephen A made third team Chris and he shouted at him across the United Center media room and everybody looked back at him and said you got 13 because you don't pass. I remember that for people that that was during the NBA finals 1998 or telling the yep for the Chicago Sun Times writes a column and he has a first team second team third team all media and pictures and everything and to this moment like nobody read that page except the media and their mom is like mom I'm 35. I'm in the paper playing basketball against guys that can't you know they measure their verticals with the metro cards. I mean it was crazy got cut it out and frame me and you made first team. Yes we did me you. Kirkin Tim Kirk Tim Kirk chin never played with him but I heard he was really good. I didn't either. Jerry Bambry made second only because the Buker was upset Rick Buker second team. Yeah. A buker which was right. I think that was appropriate Rick Rick first team. Rick Buker if it was an exercise class like an aerobic size class he would have been first team. Yeah runs like without a chicken without a take you never know where he moved. He moves like Reggie Miller but in front of him. Unfortunately he shot like Chris Dudley. He was he was a marathon. Yes but no I heard Tom not was tremendous. Yes but yeah that those are good times man we go way back have some knock down drag out games and you you have covered when you start covering the NBA. I want to say 94 I mean I had done it as a backup beatwriter at this paper that went out of business in Sacramento the Sacramento Union and it was we had this guy's name was Don Drysdale no relation to the pitcher but he was a great beatwriter and he like let me know tag along with him and I would do I would get to do sidebars at the games at Arco Arena and I was like I want to do this and paper went out of business got a job copy editing at the San Jose American News and then talk my way into the New York Times and cover in the New Jersey Nets. So it was that that was sort of when I went to New York in 94 it was like a not only a professional validation was like a personal validation like like look at you homecoming Queen look at me now I got a time's job. That was our New York Times moved on eventually to the Washington Post. They offered me a column in 2004 I worked there for 11 years and it's like I think it was my favorite place in terms of just finding my voice and being able to say what I wanted to say and then I took a job with ESPN's undefeated in 2015. Okay. So yeah I've been there for three years. So 94 you start covering the NBA you covered you were there for the Michael Jordan's some of his greatest years. Yeah. It's amazing a spoiler and playing the Knicks playing against those Knicks teams. Yeah I was there for the 55 point night. Oh but when he came back. That's right. He is second from a second timing. So I'm going to ask you because they're the big debate is always who's better LeBron or Jordan. You've seen both up close. What's your take? If you if LeBron stopped his career today I would have to put Michael Jordan number one. If LeBron James plays five more years and wins one or two more titles I don't think there's a question who's number one with the longevity with he probably will play four or five more years and I'm not going to you know look Michael always talked about the love of the game. Okay. The love of the game to me is never retiring to go play baseball. I mean I understand you're exhausted. I know that the media demands were incredible. The love of the game LeBron James has shown just as much or more love of the game as Michael Jordan. I love Michael Jordan Michael Jordan will always be in most players hearts most people's hearts who saw him the greatest player because of his dynamism you know the dynamic way he played and he was he was powerful but he was graceful and in a weird way I think LeBron James I don't know if you agree with me this Chris I think LeBron James is handicapped a little because he's so big and strong it's like he's like he's not as graceful yeah like it's just a big bull going to the rim and it's Duncan and it's and he's not as graceful and yet he's a better playmaker he he's a he's a better passer I he's not a better defender but he's a but he's a very good defender and one of the best in the league and so I look at LeBron James as you know I mean when he said make room on Mount Rushmore to me he's already there. Yeah I have the second best ever behind Jordan. I believe I'm with you I believe and then you know you could if you wanted to go centers Kareem Russel if you wanted to go guards you could go you know bird I'm sorry forwards you go bird magic. I don't know about you if I started a team today just because I fell in love with basketball the most during the 80s I'd still take magic to start a team really because he's giving up to everybody yeah especially if you're taking a bunch of stars yeah he would be like the perfect playmaker for a bunch of stuff because magic didn't care about if he had two points or 22 points yeah and then and then and then your next pick is going to be LeBron or Jordan you can't go wrong now it would be great to have so but that's you know that but yeah I think one a and one b and LeBron is right he's on my Mount Rushmore players now and and it's amazing because I've never seen a guy get more grief that's on a Mount Rushmore right well you mentioned and again you were covering the league hard intensely at this point Jordan when he said when he first retired actually weren't covering the league at that point but when he first retired he was burn out after winning the three and I've said that it's difficult for teams to make four straight finals let alone individuals and LeBron has made seven straight and as much as intense as the media scrutiny was on Jordan it was nothing compared to what LeBron James goes through oh so I do think Jordan's better but I think LeBron needs to be giving credit and one thing he's done better than Jordan is handle the scrutiny he hasn't gotten burned out from the the social media scrutiny the media coverage going to seven straight finals and things like that I am almost Michael Jordan should get on his knees and say his blessings every day that there wasn't social media during his time because he had some of his own personal foibles off the court that we didn't find out until about labor later and most of them involved in fidelities that were widely reported look so did Tiger Woods but but you could say it blew up in Tiger Woods his face and and if Jordan had lived and Jordan had played in that in this era and this is the thing about LeBron I never get the LeBron hate I guess you could if you were a fan of an opposing team and he just dunked on your season every year I could get that but what I can't get is this guy that you've never seen a mug shot of him anywhere you he's not have any criminal record he's a his biggest flaw is how he's handled departures from where he's at that's it yeah I mean that's and so I can't I don't know I just I I'm always blown away by the criticism that befalls LeBron James yeah it's personally off the court yeah no obviously the guy in this era to stay squeaky clean off the court is incredible something with LeBron you know this weekend Laura Ingram you talking about yeah I never heard of her no I'm not what was your take on that whole episode where she says shut up and dribble basically to LeBron for talking about Donald Trump yeah well one look as you know now polarization makes you popular in this country yeah it didn't used to before you're like oh that person's a little edgy nowadays it's like if you're polar if you got half the country hating you and half the country loving you you've won and and I think in that way they both won this weekend because she appealed to her base he appealed to his the the sad part of it to me is and the hypocritical part of it to me on her on her platform is like we like me other conservative liberal pundits all over this country all we did is get on Michael Jordan Tiger Woods and others for not speaking out socially for not being closer to their neighborhood communities and being loyal to their sneaker and peril companies and their golf driving companies before they were ever loyal to the things that we thought mattered in society and we were trying to be the we were trying to be the social conscience and compasses of sports and and now that these guys there's this renaissance of social conscious athlete activism and suddenly we want to tell them to shut up and dribble again when you want to stick to sports it doesn't work both ways I feel it's incredibly hypocritical well and and and if you're going to if you're going to take him on and say that you should take on some people who agree with your views to and tell them like hey if you if you essentially do not like what he said but you agree with whoever whoever could shillings take on the president then then you need to also say Kirk you're just a former athlete that's what I mean Kirk you're just a former what are you doing and so so so that part of it bothers me a little bit I also look LeBron's LeBron put into an awkward situation but he also he entered that arena once once he went there yeah once you drop an f-bomb on the president I think there's a lot better ways to criticize any leader of the free world than dropping the f-bomb on him yeah and I think what happens is the president uses that type of language and did and he was running and and was you know rip people and criticize people he doesn't have the decorum of a typical president so now it's opened it up to people going to criticize him in the way he he goes after other people but you're right on Laura Ingram I mean she's had she's told entertainers shut up and sing she's told athletes obviously shut up and dribble but yet they'll have Kurt Schilling and other entertainers that agree with their turn on the network so yeah look I love that LeBron I love is more than an athlete a model yeah because you know too many of the kids that look up to him particularly young African-American boys so and I understand where they're coming from but it's not the way you want to go about it too many of them think it's NBA or NFL or bust and there's nothing else they can do and so for him to come out and say there's other things that you should be concerned about other things you should be interested in as the greatest athlete in the world I think that's tremendous so he's handled it well and the distinctive sports thing too is I think it's dangerous because if you're going to say that you know if JJ Watt hadn't raised all those millions for the people in Houston if shoot you and people in your of your of your real can platform and athletes white black whatever hadn't gone into schools and and encouraged kids to be something more than they were that that too is beyond you know anybody I think anybody that uses just their sport as a means to an end financial wealth individual security that to me there's something wrong with that I don't want them to shut up and dribble I want them to be more than they are I'm more than a sports rider yep that's right you aren't more than a TV host but I am more than a sports rider now that's that's a great point and that's the thing like people only want athletes not to speak out when they disagree with your view you know if the if people agree with the athletes take then they want him to speak out as much as you can because we understand how much influence athletes and entertainers have on our culture but when they speak out on something and they disagree with you that's when people don't want to hear from Tim Thomas the Boston Bruins goalie when they when the Bruins won the Stanley Cup refused to go to the White House because he did not believe in President Barack Obama's policies and he was widely criticized I didn't have a problem with it because it was his views I didn't necessarily agree with his views but if he wanted to express it that way yeah I still I understand all these guys don't want to go to the White House I wouldn't I just wouldn't I'd go to the White House I just wouldn't visit with the leader of the free world if you didn't want to see 45 of the great you know of our president it's it's the office it's not just the person there yeah yeah look I mean it's gonna be interesting to see what happens with these the next few NBA and NFL champions as you know when they're invited to the White House or even how the president respond no no he's shutting that down he's not having that there's not gonna be a ceremony after the next person after the next team declines his invitation you know it's at some point it's gonna be like he's gonna have to invite high school teams now you you also when you covered the Knicks you covered the New York Knicks for New York Times when Jeff Van Gundy was coaching yeah yeah that was like I'm carbon dated from that already right so long was when the Knicks were good that that's what I was gonna say like you covered the Knicks when they were content the last time they were contenders yeah what do you think is wrong with this franchise why can't they become a good team anymore yeah well I don't want to go all calling on you because he has some long metaphors and but he always works the story around to something really funny yeah but I'm telling you like there was one time when my life when I wasn't married and I was kind of like I have dated some really bad women and what is wrong with them and what if and my friend told me one day well of these 15 bad relationships do you know that there's a common denominator and yes it was me I was the problem Jim Dolan is the problem with the New York next he stained he stained the reputations of Phil Jackson Phil Jackson was the greatest coach in the hit Phil Jackson could have gone to heaven and basically you know laughed at red hour back and now he's like he worked for the Knicks and now he's like tainted goods you go to work for the new you go to work or play for the Isaiah Thomas Thomas Larry Brown Larry Brown's tainted Lenny Wilkins yes legends have gone to the garden and been and crumbled yes no question and so so I just feel like if you got a toxic top-down management and that management is afraid of whatever if a fear of how something looks in the media and you don't have confidence to sort of delegate to one person and say this is how we're going to run things and and it's a shark tank and it's been a shark tank up there for a while you know it's not just bad luck at this point I've seen the same thing with Washington and and it's NFL owner Dan Snyder there was a common denominator that that team has not been back to a conference championship came since 1992 it's is it owners owners and owners and the people you put on top to run the thing I was going to ask you for fans and listeners that might say well how can the owner ruin the franchise is it owners being to hands-on and getting too involved and not just hiring good football and basketball people and letting them do their job they always want to be involved yeah I think that's part of it Chris I also think that look when when a former boss of ours Neil Amdler went out and hired you he had people from the Boston Globe and the Miami Herald and the LA Times knocking on his doorstep to hire an NBA rider for the New York Times he saw something in you the Akron Beacon Journal he you weren't the exotic candidate from abroad you were in Ohio and he and he said and he but he saw your stories he brought you in and he said who's art gets the game more than this guy like yeah he's in Akron but I'm going to bring him to New York because so I think there's something to be said for identifying a young candidate that isn't the sexy Moxie candidate from abroad that's not Phil Jackson not Larry Brown like go take a chance on a David Blatt and make him become a Hall of Famer Eric Spolstra Eric Spolstra is going to go into the Hall of Fame one day whatever you think about Eric Spolstra he will go into the Hall of Fame one day because not because he worked for Pat Riley because Pat Riley said go coach go show me what you can do and so at some point if if a and that goes the same for GM to this Kobe Almond guy I met him. He just made he was in Gilbert said I don't want to lose LeBron James please do something Kobe Almond looks like pretty I would if if the Cleveland Cavaliers win the title if they even get back to the finals. He's my GM of the year. Yeah. That's a great great. He went from the worst GM even though he went for the worst GM to the greatest GM. Well speaking of that what do you think LeBron look none of us know what he's going to answer the question. By the way sorry about that you talked about the next you said the problem is the ownership. Yeah I just think yet what I guess my point my round about point is you it's okay to hire someone that isn't famous it's if the most famous person is carrying the clipboard on your within your organization or it's the owner if that's the most famous person in your organization you don't have a good franchise the person has to be the player on the court. That's right. So that's that's so look LeBron you mentioned Cavs getting to the finals. What do you think none of us know what he's going to do now this summer what would you advise him to do if he came to you and said what should I do let's say they get to the finals and lose to the Warriors in a competitive six game series. Yes. What would you think a competitive six game series yeah like one that makes you feel like they might be able to beat him next year feel like at the end of last year exactly and you got not much more competitive more much important that way where you look at it and say you know what with some you're there they might hear right there. I mean and I can I can tell you what he's not going to do based on the people I've talked to and you probably talk to the same people LeBron James is and I told Colin this to LeBron James is not going to a team that he needs to recruit talent to he's not going to any organ at this point in his career he's not doing the Miami thing he's not he's going to a ready made team that can get him over the Golden State Warriors that he believes can get him within within a year two years max because he knows his time is fleeting I don't other than the Houston Rockets I don't see that team in the Western Conference right now now you could say if you're the Lakers and you put Paul George there and you put maybe maybe you make it okay for him but LeBron James is not pulling that deal he's not putting that deal together and Paul went there how good would they be next year the Lakers they wouldn't be the Warriors they'd be very good I don't think they'd be the Warriors that's just me the Lonzo ball in three years I think they beat the Warriors oh so you like Lonzo ball I love Lonzo really so you would see what's the they puts that pass on kids on people's fingertips if I'm a coach I'm saying you know we'll work on your shot you're already you're already making the game easier for people that don't even know how to run the floor so if you're the Lakers how would you deal with LeVar ball is that a problem are you just ignored what we went from LeBron to LeVar ball real quick I was talking I was talking to someone who the Lakers have called this weekend have called to ask how should we deal with LeVar ball really and they told him this person told him just ignore him like any other parent don't don't even address I'm not sure you can do that yeah I don't know either I'm more look I I come from a different I come from a different take on this whole thing in that Scott Brooks had a great line recently they asked him about you know would you what would you like if you had a father like a bar ball and he was like I'd love to have like because my dad left and so so like yeah he is the Marine one of helicopter parents he is too involved and he's become his own sort of branding machine I mean it's amazing to me in this day and age that the guys on wrestling like I wish I could do it LeVar ball did I wish I could I wish I could be important and basically just be training kids on the side like and have no you know you got your formal education at Cal State Dominguez or Stanislaus say I don't know what it was but you know you were scored two points a game I look I'm more entertained by him except when he goes over the top I look at this I don't think you have the conversation with LeVar ball you just let him keep no running I think you have a conversation with Lonzo and you say and you say Lonzo no I don't say I say Lonzo I don't really care what your dad says anymore I don't really care what you I just don't want you to listen to him you're your own man you're your own man you need to filter you want him to be and you need to filter out what he's saying and you need to believe that this is your employer and you're and I'm not saying get rid of your family I'm not saying this isn't hoop dreams I'm not the coach a ping a tour telling you to get William Gates you don't need your family no I'm saying you need to block you you're a grown man now and your father has too much influence everywhere and you know I wouldn't even pay any attention to his quotes anymore laugh at him and he goes in this and Levant Lonzo say I already do and I already do but but I do think there's like that's the only person I worry about him corrupting I used to worry about him corrupting any of Steve Alford's recruits but that doesn't matter because they're all gone they're not going to use CLA anymore see I wonder if like is he that harmful he's only as harmful as you let him be well and maybe I mean like when he says now maybe he's just joking but or maybe he's just blowing smoke yeah but when he says Lonzo will leave the Lakers if they don't sign Leangelo and Lamello that could be messing with the bottom line well I do I do sign Leangelo I sign them as gate attendants in front of the Staple Center I just tell them that it's an NBA contract I don't really give them them I don't give them the chance to actually run the floor with my players are you kidding me Lonzo Ball like making the ball boy he's still got braces doesn't he still have doesn't doesn't doesn't doesn't Lamello still have braces I mean come on he does no NBA player I know has braces stop it already LeVar stop it God I'm so tired of him he's got to he's got to do something no it just it cracks me up like do you think even Genie Boss like she's back there going God how are we going to fit Lamello and Leangelo under the cap it's just it's going to be tough if we're going to get Paul George I mean come on they're not they're not no dad is telling him if my dad rests his soul if I wish he had the power to just say you need to sign Mike Wines he sucks but you need to sign him like like come on they're going to listen to that guy what do you think about Adam Silver's brought up we've been talking about the playoffs the calves getting there Adam Silver brought up changing the format pretend you know top eight teams in each conference still but you would seed them one through 16 so for instance I don't know who's the eighth seed in the East right now the number one seed is Houston so Houston would play whoever the eighth seed is in the East not the West what do you think about that that's a four game series I got a better idea why don't you just contract the Eastern Conference and take two of the teams and put them in the West because the Eastern Conference doesn't matter it hasn't mattered at all Cleveland is the only thing that makes the Eastern Conference matter now Boston yes they're interesting but they haven't got to a I'd like to see them with a healthy get Gordon Hayward I predicted the Wizards would go to the finals at the first of the season that's because you predicted Washington would be Cleveland yes I did not yes I did I predicted Washington would be Cleveland Wow and I did it because I'm an abject Homer and I'm in the DC area for 14 years and I'm just tired and the Wizards haven't won anything so you wrote a column did you write a no but I did go on espn.com I was the only person to put the Wizards in there and they were all making fun of me you really believed or you just were I just thought it was wide open I thought I said Thomas so you thought Cleveland had really fallen off obviously well and I thought that Isaiah Thomas was going to be hurt for a lot of the season I did think he fit in better and I just thought that the Kyrie thing was really going to hurt him and I didn't think I didn't think Boston or Cleveland was going to develop the chemistry they needed within a year to get back to the finals with their roster changes and I based it on I know it wasn't that bright but I based it on that Miami team that LeBron went to in 2011 like they were just they were a year away from getting over getting to the NBA finals when they got beat by Dallas which they shouldn't have but they were a year away and once they got there it was lights out you know the 1-2 they lost 1 but so I thought that it would take them a little longer I don't think that anymore I don't to your original question about 1-16 I of the couple reasons I don't like this idea 1 Adam Silver got that idea from Bill Simmons Bill Simmons would have to get royalties Bill Simmons is richer than any sports driver in America he needs to start a fun for sports riders at this point and secondly and secondly but in all sincerity I think the biggest problem with the NBA playoffs Chris and I don't know if you agree with me is the stars the best players I like to see them late into May and June or as far as you can and their teams too when Russell Westbrook and the Thunder were knocked out I was denied of the most exciting dynamic player of the last year that had won the MVP and he went from he went from going whatever it was six or seven games with the Warriors with when he had KD on his team to five games whatever it was when they got knocked out against four or five five and then so yeah and I was just kind of I was just kind of wait a minute so so to me I like I don't I don't if you're going to go 1-16 you're going to completely deligit delegitimize the idea of the Eastern and Western Conference and the travel thing is one thing but it just there's a reason you have the geography you do because these teams are in the East these teams in the West if you're going to just say there is no champion of the East and West anymore and you're just going to take the 16 best teams you you might as well just take the conference affiliations off of them the conferences yeah like I do like the idea of 1-16 even with the travel yeah yeah let's say Orlando had to play Portland Orlando played Portland in the first round you could spread they already you're a B-Rider covering that that thing and you're you're you're it's a 2-2 1-1-1 series yeah I'd be fine with it your paper wouldn't send you they're hurting in their media a lot of papers aren't sending people anyway that's true but I look you could spread this playoffs out a little bit longer you already get two games in two days in a lot of these series between games you know they're flying charter flights and we wouldn't be the media wouldn't be but they would be and that your point though is well taken because the league obviously does want the newspapers at these games so that's something they do consider the site of digital sites and the the guys who do their own handheld now I mean I'm like I'm like I'm I'm competing against guys who essentially got these little cameras that they hand hold now guys like 16 didn't even go to J school he's like he's breaking some story that my boss is calling me about why didn't you have what Billy Johnson had from you know like Billy Johnson's 15 I didn't know what news is he just recorded LeBron James yelling profanity Dr. Laura Oh God but that but I do agree with it I could get rid of the conferences yeah even out the schedule so you basically have each team playing most teams you'd play three times but some you'd only play twice you know and so everybody has an even schedule because it's not even you're a bigger visionary than yeah I'm that's what I'm looking at and one through 16 I'm too old and to to to steeped in that those conference championships meant something but also I do think I mean remember back in the day when we were kids and well you were a kid I wasn't but you know magic and bird played each other the reason they went two three two was because bird magic we're tired of doing two two one one at the finals at some point like back and forth yeah back and forth but remember they were also flying commercial back there well this is true but still I mean two to two to one and you're looking at the let's say the Wizards versus the Clippers in the first round yeah you can have some long flights long flights you're by the time you're finals you don't even know what time zone you're in you're jet lagged it's like you went to Australia three times and back but don't you think you see I just think the West is so much better than the East now this year it's a little close back to my point contract the East and make it get rid of them all it they need to do something yeah we really did that but I'd like what is the Nets one other than Din Whitty this weekend what have the Nets one lately no Jason K when he got to the finals right that was it we need the Nets as a franchise Barclay Center books concerts it books fights don't need a basketball team that's all they need well kidding New Jersey I don't know I don't know if he is or not I don't know if he is or not know where it is who's your MVP right now are you a voter no I'm not and it's crazy because they should give a vote you should be a voter I know who's her well I remember the New York Times didn't let their writers vote for a while yeah well I don't I do they I don't know if they do that I don't know if I voted when I was in New York post I didn't either I started out to ask me but I think if they did like you just did and I appreciate that is I would I mean right now James Harden yeah I mean so you agree we know LeBron's the best player in the world but you don't just give it to the best player like you could have given it to Michael George exactly you said that earlier like it makes sense like like James Harden and and this is why last year to me the the MVP to me is the wow person not just the person with the numbers but the person that you remember like damn how either a highlight or a game that game well how much do you how many do you the triple double E had 50 50 60 yeah I think it was the first 60 point triple double that was insane I went I just went and watched the game after and I go my goodness this is special Larry Bird scored 60 once in his career Larry Bird you know great it was a triple double that I can think of after LeBron he didn't it wasn't a triple double yeah he's the greatest small forward after LeBron I can think of Larry Bird has 60 points when James Harden did that a triple double and then and to me that's that's the same kind of wow factor Russell Westbroke gave me last year and so if you if the rockets and you're on a great team to me it has something you you cannot be a third place team and when you know the MVP I don't think you should and and then Westbroke last year I know and I and I made and I made a exception yeah I made an exception because a triple double yeah no just because he would have cried because he's still upset about KB not being there but and I didn't want to give him to get any more emotionally damaged because Russ we need him in this league but but the other one you know like like I mean Kyrie was sort of my front runner early he's falling I still get early man I still like Kyrie I I don't think there's anyone close to harden right now no you're right you know I mean I think I think I think Durant Steph kind of he canceled each other out yeah Brian had the horrible month in January Kyrie they're they're only playing they're like 18 and 15 over the last two months yeah I know they're struggling a little bit yeah hopefully harden continues to play with or it's really gonna get interesting yeah Did he trim last night how you look like it yeah there because usually you can hide snacks in it and eat during the game it's like crazy it's like crazy than Bill Waltons beard used to be like Walton had a crazy yeah and so did you ever think we see a trip anybody average a triple double again no I didn't no I didn't be and it wasn't because that it wasn't because Oscar Robertson was one of a kind which he is it was it was because everybody is so into specialty nowadays I mean Dennis Robin went to Hall of Fame because you could rebound it couldn't shoot you could shoot better than Dennis Robin I think I could yeah and but but honestly but it just became such a specialty league like either be a lock you'd have a lock down defender yeah you'd have a lock you know you'd have a lock down defender Ray Allen became a great well he was all around but but he became a great shooter and so I never thought you would get a guy that it was like so other than like a LeBron so multi-dimensional that was just and and his size too is incredible like how many times have we gone to playground when we actually could play back in the day and you'd meet a guy and he was like the same size as Russ Westbrook or John Starks and you went you went wait a minute that dude just jumped out of the gym how did he not get to the NBA and this guy did and to me there's like this demarcation line that somehow those guys got over it and some way and to me it's amazing like that I celebrate guys like that every day like John Starks should have been working at a Piggly Wiggly in Oklahoma he even says it himself and yet and yet he forged and he was wasn't he he was and he forged an NBA career out of heart you know and heart and I think a lot of everybody says oh Russell Westbrook athleticism I mean yeah okay when he goes up that's heart man when he goes up that he just dunks angrily yeah yeah I'm glad you brought up Starks because you covered Patrick Ewing when he was with the Knicks do you think he was as good as I came with Lodge wine and if they had won that series yeah if the Knicks had beaten Houston and 7 versus Houston beating the Knicks and 7 do you think people would look at Ewing as better than Elijah wine no because Elijah won was more effective on the the older he got he was almost more effective his footwork his footwork and everything well Patrick willed himself into what I consider the the greatest jump shooting center in the history of the game oh my I I don't think anybody had his range Keem was close but Patrick could shoot from 18 with consistency I think that you know he had some injury problems late Keem retired at the wrong time the right time and he won two titles yeah and so I you know if with Patrick he'd won two titles and Keem never got Keem never got one I would say that but you know look he's I mean he's still he's Patrick's in my top ten top seven centers of all time but he can live with being he can be lived with being considered worse than Elijah won now I mentioned you had covered the team when Jeff Van Gundy was coached when you see Van Gundy on TV now to call in these games are you surprised I mean when I covered him I followed you I covered him and he was we never we rarely if ever saw that side of Jeff he was always miserable he was always serious yeah you know every loss was a moral catastrophe for the team doesn't that but do you do you think that's more about Van Gundy or the coaching profession because I look for instance at guy who was it Doug Collins yes God cause like oh yeah Doug Collins heavenly analyst hellish coach he was miserable like they do like like you and he would get angry with every loss with every loss and I also think when we went back to Jim Dolan like like like he was Jeff was working in a septic tank for a long time he did you remember the lot you remember the all you guys would love this he had a framed saying on his wall in his coaching office that soon he purchased it said if you think everyone is against you you're let's see you're not paranoid you're perceptive that's what his whole goes is that was his matter you know is his his mantra in New York and and now he's sort of like like if I'm him I would never go back to coaching I don't care what they pay me he looks happy exactly I've always said look he do what he want once but I've always said I thought it was best for him never to go back to coaching yeah why would you he seems so much happier and he's funny and he's you know he's good on TV him and Mark Jackson agree yeah so what what is you wrote a book about Shaq yeah what was it called it was called Shaq talks back it was in it it was the New York Times best seller I it was basically I ghost wrote Shaq's autobiography for him it was I could write a book about the 10 days I spent with Shaquille O'Neal 2000 Orlando I mean stuff you would you would laugh your butt off it would never got in the book I was going to say tell us something that was shock us or we don't know about Shaq Oh which is the hole that you can't well you know he's a hunter right yes you know somewhat he he's I've been in his house where he has all the animals on the water he told me they just send him out there it's basically like it's not real hunting right no it's real hunting he went look at this the last day of the book like the he goes he goes you know bro and goes I go yeah what's up Shaquille and goes um he goes uh almost celebrate the end of the book you know and you're doing all the interviews I'm going oh that's great and he goes and I just hear this buh buh buh buh buh a chopper lands on his front lawn you know and some guy that is a Vietnam tail gunner comes out and he goes hey Shaq come on in and Shaquille O'Neal and his friends get all these guns where like I mean it was out in the sticks and you know first of all I got to sit in the back of the helicopter and Shaq is like Shaq is like I don't got enough room bro and he throws his legs over me and I'm just like this in the bag of helicopter and then he puts on the headphones and when we're going around the Everglades he starts doing the theme from Magnum PI like din din din din like just a big kid and then we get out of the helicopter and this guy I swear God is I don't know what the guy's name was but he's got all camo on he's got it am I allowed to swear on this and now yeah well they'll be been out right and he goes at one point at one point like and he gets out and like there's only white people at this thing right there's only white people with camouflage and he just he and the and the and the hunting lodge guy looks at him he goes shag you a big and son and then all of a sudden they were from there and we walk in and Shaq looks at the wall and all the guys who got the you know pictures trophy pictures of their kill up or he goes he goes look at this he goes I'm the only brother here ever ever and then there's one point where he actually goes on shoots this like rare caribou deer and I'm not a hunter I like to go fishing and I'm like kind of little squeamish and he goes come on out with me and he like literally from a high parallel from a long ways away hits this deer really and I will give him this the whole hunting lodge they give any animals that aren't taken they they they basically give the food for grow your own charities and stuff but either way he hits this and it's it's not dead and and the hunting guy gets out of the Jeep and he's like Shaq I'll get him for you don't worry put him out of misery and all of a sudden you remember the scene in Matrix where Keanu Reeves goes Sir do you have any metal on and he's just got like 18 guns like strap yeah like that Shaq takes off his vest and he goes I got it and he's got all these guys and he's got all these guns like he's like Keanu Reeves in the Matrix and he takes out this huge gold gun and it's a you know whatever a Desert Eagle or something and the guy looks at and he goes Shaq that's a home boy special boy like and you and Shaq like he didn't care that they were rednecks he had fun with them and you know and then he came up with some screenplay where hey right up a screenplay where I get kid some guy gets kidnapped and he's a son of a military guy and and then he tricks out one of these Jeeps with rims and they got music and they go wait who do we kidnap oh no and I go Shaq I go it's been done it's called Rambo okay you know like like but it was he couldn't make it up the whole that's he still gives me a hard time to that oh he didn't want to go hunting you just want to go fishing let me ask you this yeah Shaq and coat Shaq the Shaq Kobe Lakers yeah against today's Golden State Warriors who wins gosh if they played with those rules Shaq Kobe Lakers that inside outside game was so debilitating who would guard Shaq do I there's no way I mean yeah you can say who would guard Steph who would guard but that this game that Steph has created and I really do think this launch from the parking lot you know I'm open when I leave the womb I mean it's amazing to me but that wasn't the game then no if you played this if you played this stop and pop game I probably like Steph I mean I really think is I mean people really two different games I think it's predicated on how that how that game is officiated how that game is played if Shaquille O'Neal could emasculate the Kenbe Matungbo like he did in the 2001 NBA finals how could you possibly stop that you're looking at the weirdest thing I saw last year was and this I think it was during the NBA finals the conference finals Steph and Curry was going down the court on the left side and Kevin Durant was ahead of the pack Chris he had a layup he had a this is basketball 101 you give it to the man with a dunk or layup Steph Curry pulled up from three and Kevin Durant was like yeah we got three instead of two that never happened in our lifetime it was like the new it was like a new world of thinking about basketball and and that that the fact that that three pointer from 25 feet away became automatic as to Steph Curry and even in in a in a groove and that that was more important than Kevin Durant scoring a lap underneath it to me it said wow this is a different game we're playing now now that's I mean I can't tell you how many times I'll see a Tristan Thompson or Zaza Pachulia somebody get a read either get a rebound yeah or a pass and they're right there under the basket and they kick it out to somebody for a three-point shot I'm like look I understand you aren't the greatest offensive score but any you can lay the ball up and they kick it out for three yeah it's a different world it's almost like they're going by the Saber metrics of the whole thing like I had three for two every time and if we got a good three-point shooter out there let's give it to him and it blows me away every time because it messes with my mind like they legislated the big man out of the game almost yeah they basically said you know can you imagine like a Benoit Benjamin he wouldn't even get in the G-League now there's no way you have to be great to be yeah and you're in a shack though see most of the big men can't punish you enough right where they where they'll you where you have to say you know what even though they're only scoring two is still too much even though we're getting three shack could do that yes and that's the difference Mike wise great job man great story it's just a five minute pop like told my life story no it was awesome my man Mike wise New York Times Washington Post the undefeated great journalists glad we have you man it's great to see you doing so well and I know your family I know you're laughing I'll say my girls are in college now it's crazy yeah I'll just tell you what I'm not Lee once said to Cosell I like your show I like your style but please don't call me for a while thank you we'll sign off on that note