 This week on the anxious truth, we're doing a success story. We haven't done one of these in a long time My friend Katie is going to join us. She's going to tell us how she got from Literally crippled in her house during benzo withdrawal To traveling to europe on her own with her little kids and living her life again. It's going to be good. So let's go Hello everybody. Welcome back to the anxious truth. This is podcast episode number 224 224 We're recording in july of 2022. I think you're going to hear this in august or september. I'm not sure Welcome to the show. I am drew linsellata creator and host of the anxious truth This is the podcast that covers all things anxiety anxiety disorders and recovery. So if you're new to the podcast, welcome I'm glad you're here if you are a returning listener. Thank you for coming back. I appreciate that So today we are going to do an anxiety success story. We have not done one of these in a long time I used to do a bunch of them. I haven't had a chance to do one in a while And katie story is really good. I met katie about 18 months ago accidentally on instagram When she popped into an instagram live with me and josh fletcher She was in a really bad place at that time And I have watched her in my facebook group over the course of the 18 months get better and better and better And now she is living pretty much a normal life again. She's traveled to europe on her own. She's working again Life is good. So katie's going to tell us all about where she was where she's now What she still has to work on and what she did to get there because I know that's what you guys all want to know Before we get to the interview just a quick reminder that the anxious truth is more than just this podcast episode There are 200 and somewhat other free podcast episodes There's my morning newsletter via email call the anxious morning. That is free There's a ton of social media content. That is all free There are three books on anxiety and anxiety recovery that I've written They're helping tens of thousands of people worldwide overcome this problem. You could check those out too Those are not free, but they're certainly not expensive Every one of those things can be found on my website at the anxious truth.com So go check it out and if you are following my work and i'm helping you and you would like to help me keep it Free of advertising and sponsorships all the ways to do that can be found at the anxious truth.com slash support That is always appreciated never required. Thank you to those of you who are supporting the work And those of you who are just here listening Liking sharing. I appreciate all of you guys. Thank you very much. So let's get to it Let's get to the interview with katie. It's about 25 minutes to a half hour long I think you're gonna dig it and I will come back at the end and wrap everything up as usual Hello katie Hi Welcome Thank you you so We are gonna have don't be nervous. We're just gonna have a little chat as if we're just chilling and having a cup of coffee um I let everybody know in the intro that you are here to sort of tell your recovery story dot dot dot so far I know you're still working on some stuff, but you've come so far That's why it has a little bit of a dual meaning So let's just kind of walk through it a little bit Like well, we'll give everybody sort of the reader's digest version of where you are and like what you did because everybody's going to know How did you do this? Like so let's start with where you are kind of where you are and then then we'll fill in the middle part Like how did you get there? So I met katie about a year and a half ago roughly completely randomly Josh Fletcher and I were doing an instagram live one day And this person katie decides she wants to come on with us And that's how I met right so you came on with us and you talked about Where you are at the time which was not not such a great place. What was going on back then? Um, so I don't really know how social media works instagram and stuff I didn't I probably didn't even realize it was live and my brain was really jumbled around at the time because I was deep in the middle of a benzodiazepine withdrawal And I think it's safe to say that that was the worst in my life that I've been Mentally and I've said that a few times over the course of my life, but looking back I think that might have been the one that was like the worst mental health of my life and so, um Yeah, and I popped on instagram And I think you saved it So you would the where you were at the time that was it that was a tough spot you were describing Yeah, you you kept describing that I need to lay on the floor and put on my fan You were knee deep and I must Yeah, like deep in the physical symptoms of like the worst anxiety symptoms I've ever had and I'm not I'm not, you know, not used to heart palpitations and sweating and blurred vision and You know depersonalization all that this was that on steroids going through medication withdrawal was Was something that I don't ever wish upon anyone and Yeah, just all the physical stuff is like I couldn't get comfortable. I would literally just lay on the floor And I had like this acute pressure mat or something and like different, you know, I'm like weighted blanket and Um, you know, I just couldn't get comfortable. Just I don't know I don't know. Well, you've yeah, you know, you've gone through medication withdrawals before so Yes, my I was in benzo withdrawal. It was an ssri situation, but I do remember like nothing you do stops Yeah, nothing you can't get comfortable until it's out of your body Which is what it is. So that that was a that was a dark spot for you. You seemed You seemed like you were a little bit running out of hope. I remember it was a little bit heartbreaking to listen to you talk that day You were convinced that things were not going to get better to a certain or that you couldn't Yeah Yeah, I had zero hope and actually I think during that time. Yeah during that time I I've I called 911 a few times. I went to the hospital a few times and I remember the doctors telling me, you know, after you're there and they are for hours and hours and hours and You know, they would always say the same thing. We can't do anything for you We could give you more Medication but that scene it seems like you want to get off of that Which is why you're having these withdrawals and you're getting off. So Since we're not going to give you more medication. Um, there's nothing we can do for you. So I just after a while You have to stop calling 911 because the bill's just pile up. Yeah And you realize they're not they can't do anything. Anyway, I don't want to make too much about the withdrawal But I know a question that people will probably ask is Were you told now in my situation? It was anti-depressant and I was told you got to go back on it It depends on because the doctor is aware of the addictive addiction problem. So yeah told you need to start taking this Xanax or whatever again. Yeah. So I mean basically the reason why I was on is because I was in another dark period and which led to the darkest period, which was the withdrawal. So it's in a very dark period for about a year or two, maybe three years and I was just having several panic attacks a week. I developed Really bad agoraphobia monophobia. I couldn't be without my safe person my husband Couple other family members that were you know, my safety people couldn't be without them for You know one minute would go by and if someone wasn't there It would just be you know panic attacks panic attacks if they had to go to the store I mean my husband came home a few times to the police at my house because I had to call someone To sit and be with me. I couldn't be alone because what if I had a panic attack? what if I had an emergency and It was so bad that my doctor said I just want you to take this pill once a day So I started taking the pill once a day and after a couple months I was feeling really good and I was like, why haven't I done this? All along I feel great. You know, this is what all my friends talk about like, oh, I got on a medication I I feel so much better. I felt all better. So I stopped taking it And then that's when I got in trouble because you can't just stop taking it No, especially a benzo do not just stop taking it. You can't do that. Yeah, and that's you did you call turkey that Yep, and I didn't know that so, you know that after about a week. I Yeah, I worked out a taper with you know I actually ended up calling the pharmacist and we worked out a taper together And then I called my doctor and she approved of that taper So that was the that was the taper that I met you during Okay, which is certainly a difficult process to go through no doubt about it. So Um, okay, I get that So let's talk about so you're in a dark place at that point You're in the middle of a taper and all that's the problems that that brings and difficulties that bring Egor phobia is in full swing. The panic is in full swing. The monophobia is in full swing Um, I know that you had at the time. I believe you had a camping trip or something on the horizon And I remember dreading how am I ever going to go to that? I don't want to miss it Like I remember it was I think I posted it about that at least three times I'm sorry. No, it's okay. I apologize for that But I remember you telling us like how am I supposed to possibly get on this camping trip? You didn't want to miss it Yeah, and I went Yeah, you went I remember that I remember when you did when you did go So that's where you were then. Where are you now? I mean I I just for full disclosure Katie is in my facebook group She pasted she posts her progress now and then I've seen you do all kinds of stuff So where are you now? Um Well, I'm still in my house. No, just kidding Um, well as far as the stuff that I've done over the past year So a couple months ago most notably I got back from a multi international trip with my family that I planned Um, and I went back to work and I can stay by myself in my house for You know unlimited time I take care of my kids fully by myself now like I have little kids and you know I can take them to their events now pick them up from school. I've driven on the highway I wasn't driving at all when I first met you on instagram and um, yeah, and I mean, I wish I could tell you I just took a supplement and became all better But it was really just like the work that you have us do like in your book It's really just doing the work and I'm probably In like one of the best mental health places that I've been in in the past 10 years and um And yeah, and it's just you know, it's It's been it's been a journey and I want to say like thank you for being patient with me because I've posted probably a hundred times in the past year And you're just so patient and you're patient with everyone and I just I really appreciate you taking Your time to like help people like me and I've seen you help hundreds of people So, yeah, thank you. My husband says thanks too. Oh, you're welcome. That's how I said he's welcome But you did all this. I didn't do anything. I always just left a message and you picked it up and ran with it So you get all the credit here. I don't get any but but I think so People will ask I because I know the next question I'm here to ask questions that I know people will ask you if they got to talk to you Which is well, do you have do you have anxiety now? Yeah, I have anxiety and I panic attacks is just part of my brain Just whatever. I mean, but I have a lot less like a lot less. I mean, I probably haven't so I came back from europe Three months ago, I think and um So what happens now during my panic attacks is yeah, I had one day in particular and it was just Really horrible day, you know everything that could go wrong went wrong and um Someone without anxiety would have had a problem that day And I had a panic attack that day. I probably had, you know, two or three panic attacks that day But they are not anywhere near as intense. So I don't know If your panic attacks are like mine, I assume that they're all Similar where you get that like wave of adrenaline kind of hot It's like this whoosh and I call it like a panic attack aura. I don't know if I made that up. Maybe that's a thing I don't know. So I get like I get like yeah, because I have migraine sometimes too um, so I get that panic attack aura at the airport in paris and um Like I know what it is now like I know the bodily sensations and um, it's more of an annoyance at this point And you know, I'm just like, okay Pause there have you know notice that I'm having the panic attack aura And I'm like, yeah That makes sense that I'm having a panic attack right now It truly makes sense and I like acknowledge that it's there and then I pick up my luggage and my kid's luggage and we keep walking through the airport, you know, so I don't know. I I guess I guess what I'm saying is I do have panic attacks still But they don't get to the point that they would get in the past um physically because I guess I'm just not scared of them anymore because I don't um I don't Fear them so much anymore. They're more just annoying. Yeah. Yeah disruptive Yeah, yeah, and I'm just like, okay. Yeah, that makes sense that I'm having this huge wave of adrenaline right now That's something my body and my brain do together and I still need to find my gate at the airport with my kids and I don't have time to lay on the floor and find an acupressure mat So I gotta keep I just gotta keep walking with my family to the airport So you are walking through Charles de Gaulle airport. I'm guessing in paris Having a panic attack carrying your luggage in your kid's luggage. Yeah Yeah, and I have to get macaroons and croissants. So like I go in line to get the last, you know, hurrah of Paris goodies and stuff like that before I go on to the next destination and because I like to bring something to my like Next B&B hosts for the from the destination that I'm at currently whether it's home here or from, you know, somewhere else Anyway, so like I'm having a panic attack and like texting the next air B&B hosts and like, hey I'm like, can I grab you something and they're like, oh my gosh, that'd be amazing So like I like still go ahead and I do my stuff that I'm going to do and um While I'm Yeah, you know, like the anxiety symptoms and the adrenaline's going on in the background So I've kind of like learned how to just Turn it turn my attention off from that like because I don't I don't need to pay attention to it anymore Because I gotta do other stuff now Just as a point to illustrate for people listening and I know that a lot of you guys are listening right now thinking How on god's green earth did this woman walk through? So katie lives in northeastern u.s. We don't say exactly where but you're on the other side of the world in paris With your kids by yourself having a panic attack in this giant airport And and walking just while it happens But I just like like I know you're thinking that it's impossible But we'll get to like all the things that katie did to get there But I just want to point out that in that situation the experience becomes so different because the front part of your brain Like the reasoning part actually had a say there We're gonna do this like it was able to weigh in and had room to weigh in and by the way I that's right I need to text my next host and and I'm going to go buy Goodies to bring with me like that's that's prefrontal cortex stuff That's like your reasoning logical brain kicks in and and can actually Do things even while your lizard brain the lower part of the brain is like ah danger Yeah, I Yeah Yeah, I just kind of like Turn like it's like I don't know. It's like I'm tuning into radio stations It's like there are multiple radio stations going on in my head and the The lizard brain like wants like you to tune into that one But I'm like I got to tune into this one for a second because I got to find my gate and get my order of christians We have a new metaphor here wlzb lizard brain right now The bfc prefrontal cortex radio on the air What a different experience it has to be from the point where a panic attack was all consuming and you could do nothing But just lay flat and and hang on and trial. Yeah, yeah, okay So I mean first of all it's a tremendous trip, which I enjoyed watching you document And it was so great I actually love when you post because you're so encouraging now and you're so kind and you're so giving your time In your experience, which I appreciate your help your experience is helping other people now Which I love and I and I appreciate so much So everybody's going to ask here. We're about halfway through the podcast now How did you do it and you know they asked you that because you've heard them ask you in the facebook ground But how how did you do that? So what did you do? What did it look like? What are those 18 months in a nutshell? No pressure just consolidate 18 very vital months of your life into about 10 minutes. That's all you gotta do Sure Well, it was so I have I kind of like broken out into all my different phobias like My driving phobia my monophobia My agoraphobia And I I sectioned those out into their own exposures So I knew that I was going to europe probably seven months before I went That's when I booked the trip and for that like going on a trip exposure I couldn't go I actually hadn't been on an airplane in three years prior So I can't really go on an airplane to test out I have A huge fear of airplanes That's probably like the biggest fear that I have that and like the dentist, but I think that's common But um, so I couldn't really like build up to like You know practicing going to Europe or anything So I practiced in other ways. I think one of the things that stuck in my mind when um I was talking about how do I practice for different phobias that I can't really practice for and you said to me one time Maybe last year or whenever it was um driving is a really good Uh exposure for practicing for other things such as Monophobia and stuff like that. So actually really focused on the driving exposure. Um, so The first time so what that looked like if we want to talk about one what the driving exposure looked like is me Having not driven for a few years. So I sat in my car and Just had had it in the driveway Just I couldn't even turn it on. I actually had a panic attack in my car just sitting In the driver's seat and I had a panic attack and I cried and cried and cried And then I went back in my house and I didn't go back in my car for a couple weeks And I told my husband. I'm like, well can't drive and he's like uh Wouldn't drew say to go do it again? And I'm like, I hate that I've told you about drew and like what to do and stuff like Because he was like Because he was like my mini drew in my ear. I'm like, you know what? Ah forget about forget about drew and he's like, no, I think drew would want you to To go back out there. So yeah, so I went back out there and um I started my car and I went down my driveway And that was that for that that time and yeah, so over the course of Several months, maybe maybe it took the whole year. Um Yeah, it was just, you know driving around my neighborhood just like really and then and then I have kind of like a big main road Attached to the to the road that I live on and uh, oh my gosh, it took me so many times just like Sitting there at the stop sign And then I went down that main road, you know with all the trucks and all the traffic And I just went to the first the first next road And then the time came to get my state inspection And I had to drive my car to it because it was one of those drop-off things so and my husband was driving his truck and um Yeah, that was the first time I went on the highway that day So I had about a year to practice up to that, but yeah, I I live in the boonies So there was a lot of practicing going around before I had to go on the highway to go to my state inspection but um, I had such a high actually, um Driving on the highway to my state inspection Like afterwards, I was so proud of myself because I kind of like couldn't wait to tell the group about it and um That I I was like, hey pizza's on me tonight and I'm gonna go get it And I like drove even further and I went and like got my family pizza And I did have a full blown panic attack in my car on the way back so You know a little rusty, but like yeah, I've just been driving. I've just been driving, you know, you can't Like of course, of course I was going to have a panic attack just because I was just so excited And that's what happens to me too is sometimes I get so excited that I have a panic attack I think that's normal. Yeah, any big emotion can morph into that quickly Yeah, so that is kind of what helped me go on the trip to europe is just building that confidence like you say You know, I got I got so much progress in my driving exposure that that really built up my confidence for a lot of other things Including the trip and then when I came back to Europe from europe um I got offered to teach a class unrelated um To my trip obviously, um, and I got offered to teach a class at my local community center and uh Of course, you know, the amygdala starts screaming at you. It's like say no say no You haven't taught in years and years. It's gonna be horrible and i'm like, you know what? I just got back from europe Yes, I'll teach the class. It's fine Oh that statement right there I was okay Just in for a second to again just for illustrative purposes Well, I'm okay driving in my neighborhood, which means I guess I could be okay driving out of the neighborhood Which means I guess I could be okay driving on the highway Which means I guess I could be okay bringing the car for an inspection getting pizza Or going to europe or teaching a class. Yeah, it's all the same thing So I swear I didn't pay katie to say that I swear And in the end were you practicing were you learning how to drive again, or were you learning how to panic better? Oh, I was definitely learning how to panic better Just turning off the the noise that I didn't need to pay attention to And honestly during that class even though I hyped myself up so much with it with the anticipatory anxiety I think I posted about that too so much anticipatory anxiety. The class was absolutely fine There was this one point. I was like I could have a panic attack right now, but Who needs that I'm not going to This the anticipation is is always I guess I can't say always almost always in my experience worse than the actual event Oh, yeah, almost always. Yeah Um, let's talk about the anticipatory anxiety for just a second because now you're challenging yourself, right? You're now that's it. I'm on the way. I'm doing things. I'm not going to stop That ramps up because now you know I'm I am committed to take a trip. I'm committed to go to the family barbecue thing I've committed to go out to dinner. I've committed to the kids concert or whatever And now you have to go through like avoiding is easier because there's less anticipatory anxiety Oh, it's so much easier to just avoid Yeah So how did you you know, was there any secret sauce in in the anticipation in your experience? How to deal how we that you didn't let that drag you under? um I think 7% slower was where that came in with the anticipatory anxiety that and it was really perfect because you were just starting to do I don't know if it was podcasts on that book or you would start to talk about that book a lot And I was like, this isn't exactly what I need to hear right now at this point in my journey Because that's when I was having Very bad anticipatory anxiety over going to europe obviously that was that was a big one and um And I really you know, I found myself getting wound up Weeks before the trip and then I would just you know Put it in my head or maybe like something From yours popped up on my phone like oh, you know, and I wouldn't even necessarily have to watch your live streams Or your you know, but just that little kind of like reminder like oh drew is talking about 7% slower right now And i'm like, okay. Yeah, duh. I need to stop Stop the hamster wheels turning and just pause and literally just wash my dishes that i'm washing and You know do this other tasks that i'm doing right now. I'm not in europe right now right now. I'm doing something else And yeah that book 7% slower is really helpful for anticipatory anxiety Who knew didn't pay her to say that either I'm gonna have you on every podcast Click the link below for the 10% discount Oh my god discount code macaroons So good so you you wind up you wind up going on this trip You're doing all these things amazing So in the end it comes down to step by step going at the fear and you how many times give me an estimate throw a funny number I mean, how many panic attacks you have along the way uh On the tree. Oh, I mean like from the first day. I met you To you now where you are now More or less when you started actually going toward the fear oh less definitely because I just you know got to pause and look at it and see it for what it is which is just you're amygdala just trying to Keep you safe from the scary thing that isn't you know really dangerous I guess you know less now but during the in the process Oh in yeah, yeah, so in the process. Yeah, I mean I definitely had to like go through um panic attacks to get to the thing You know like a lot of the drives for example, I'd be driving down the road. I'm like, okay. I today I'm driving You know and during those exposures I would plan out the route and I'm like, okay today. I'm driving from a B and that is further than yesterday And I would have a panic attack from a to b But that was the plan for the day. So the panic attack even though it was happening. It didn't matter So Yeah, it was just you drive from a to b and I learned that like by planning to drive from a to b and having a panic attack Especially on the days that I had the panic attacks during the exposures That was where like the training really like Happened with that part of my brain That was for so long Used to being in charge like that part of my brain was totally in charge of my life for years and so it went through like A regimen of like It was like a workout program. I was like gonna star in a movie. I needed I needed six pack of abs Is taking me six months to do the work. I don't know. No. Yeah I don't know if that makes sense. No, it does make a lot of sense. It makes perfect sense I mean, you're saying all the things that Clearly Katie's echoing a lot of the things you guys hear me say again and again again I mean bring her on here as as proof of that. I'm right or anything like that More so as as encouragement that like no, no, you really can do it like I don't want to put words or emotions In your in your mouth or your head Katie because I can't ever be you but I mean the difference in you now. It's not like, you know, we don't really know each other It's not like Katie and I have been talking for the past 18 months, you know, I followed her in my Facebook group but the change What a difference from then to now. I mean like a different person At least the part of you that I can say tremendous you. Yeah. Yeah, like, um I don't know. Communist confidence Oh, yeah, thank you. Yeah, do you have things that you think you still need to work on? Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, I think it'll be a work in progress for a while So right now I'm actually planning a solo trip back to Paris because So I have little kids and there was a lot of things that I Couldn't do with my little kids like so I love art and art is a huge part of my life and I didn't go in the Louvre. Oh, no I know I know because my Little list one when it would have been a terrible terrible time. So, um Yeah, I was kind of standing there and thinking And I told my husband I said I should just come back here by myself because he's not obsessed with art either and Back in the day a long time ago. I loved going to places by myself I took solo trips all the time like back when I was a young fearless person and I would love to do that right now. So right now I am in the process of planning a solo trip back to Paris to just go to the Louvre three days and stare at each painting and I don't know just like Do a really boring katie trip that no one else would want to do and do it on my time and so I've I've always felt like If I can go on a solo international trip and if I can go um drive on the highway for a long time by myself and um I think those two things maybe go to the dentist without freaking out Then I will consider myself completely recovered. So I'll let you know when I get back from Paris by myself Sounds like a plan now. Those are things that that's that last three percent five percent That takes a long time because you don't get to go to Paris every year. Yeah, like right now. Um, I need to save up money to go So it doesn't happen for a while. Yeah, you can't practice that you can't like do like Oh, we'll just practice by going to england before we go to know you can't do that Um, and the same you don't have a reason to get on the interstate and drive to chicago every week So yeah, those are the things that just come up when they come up. You'll get there It's gonna. Yeah, and I actually am going to england soon So I kind of will get to practice my husband travels for work sometimes and I sometimes tag along And he's gonna have a long conference while I'm there and I might do some solo exploring while I'm there So that's kind of that'll lead up to that Paris exposure Yeah, that sounds like a whole lot of fun Well, I don't want to let you hold you up too too much longer You've shared so much and been so helpful and I appreciate you so much. Thank you for taking your time So let's leave people with with a bit of wisdom one bit of wisdom You think you can give them because everybody always wants to end with the mic drop like the big This is the this is which came for if you had to talk to 18 months ago, katie Yourself in your darkest time. What would you tell her now? probably You got to do two things and it's the first thing is make a plan to Go from the point where you're starting which is Basically, I was starting from like not even being a person Just sitting in my room. Just not doing anything Make a plan a step by step how you're gonna Do your exposures and get out of your room like I did I literally started by walking to my mailbox and So make a plan that's the first one and then the second one is your attitude You have to want to do this. You have to want to actually change You can not change if you want to You can keep living like that. But for me, it wasn't an option. I don't really have depression quote unquote depression but my panic disorder made me very depressed and I I couldn't live like that anymore because That wasn't living so to me it wasn't Maybe someone else is okay with living like that, but That's good advice everybody hits their everybody hits their breaking point and that's different for all of us It looks different from everybody You found yours and that's what motivated the change. So you did tremendous tremendous work, katie I can't even you should be so proud of yourself I wish it was just as easy as a supplement You know what in all honesty me too me too If there was I you know, I say this all the time by giving you a magic 10 words and a pill to take I would totally do that You know, but I'm I'm much prouder of myself than Um for doing this because it was it was really hard and I and I think that's where a lot of that Confidence and calmness comes from now is I went through a year of really hard work and it paid off and I'm really happy now. So Yeah, thank you drew like really thank you No, thank you did the work you get the credit. Yeah, but you you spent all your Thousands of hours putting it out there for free so I could have access to it Look, it sometimes it just makes it feel like I lived what you lived and now I feel like it wasn't for nothing There was a reason for it. So that's that's all You did great today You're a podcast star. Thank you so much for coming. You're always welcome back If you want to tell us how your your solo trip goes We'll do the next podcast when you're on the top of the Matterhorn by yourself with your goggles on Yeah, I'm scared of heights too. So maybe so maybe not that we'll see Anyway, so if you guys are watching, um I'll post this since you're in the group I'll post it in the facebook group if you're in the facebook group and want to ask questions underneath the post that I put for this episode I'm sure katie will Answer but otherwise if you have questions anywhere else on youtube or whatever, I'll do my best to answer them for you And um, yeah, thanks for coming. I appreciate it Yeah, oh and I would say it's better to ask questions on the thread I guess because I have a lot of people that um private message me and I think like as long as we're talking In the open then everyone can benefit from it Thank you. I appreciate that. So if you're in the facebook group, please Don't bomb katie with private messages. Just ask underneath this video All right guys, I'll be back in a minute to wrap it up katie. Thank you so much. Thank you drew Okay, we are back to wrap things up. I hope you guys got something out of that interview with our new friend katie I know I had a good time having her on the podcast and getting to know her a little bit more Lovely human being eager to help very kind and generous and sharing her experiences and I appreciate that Just a couple of quick takeaways before I end this episode I want you to remember some of the things that katie said katie talked about hitting a point where The pain of staying where she was was greater than the pain of going through this difficult recovery process Everybody hits a point where they decide It is really hard to do these scary things that drew talks about But that's better than staying where I am. So katie had to hit that point And the second thing is she really took the time and I admire katie for this and I thank her for this You know, she was thanking me for her help But she made it really easy because she took the time to become really familiar with what I was writing She felt that it did apply to her So she she became really familiar with it and then she made herself a plan and she executed that plan Without fail it did not matter how she felt and you heard katie specifically say that some of the most valuable days In her recovery journey were the days when she did have panic attacks during her exposures where she did Face some adversity where it was challenging. Those are the days that mattered the most If you take anything away from this podcast episode Aside from the fact that you can do it just like katie did take those things away Have you hit the tipping point where the pain of staying where you are is greater than the pain of going forward with recovery? And are you willing to make that plan and stick to it? Knowing that the bad days are actually the best days when you look back When you get to the other side of the journey So that is episode 224 the anxious truth Thank you again to katie for coming by to share her story if you're watching in the facebook group I will post this video in the facebook group. You can comment below if you're watching anywhere else By all means on youtube or whatever send it a comment and I will do my best to answer the questions for you But that is it. That is the end of the episode. We know this because Music Afterglow by ben drake you guys know by now That's the song at the beginning of the end of every podcast episode You can find ben drake and his music at ben drake music dot com go check him out Tell him that I said hello Thank you ben for letting me use afterglow If you are watching the podcast on youtube by all means subscribe to the channel hit the like button Subscribe hit the notification bell leave a comment Love the comments on youtube if you're listening on spotify or iTunes or some platform that lets you rate or review the podcast Leave a five star rating if you dig it take two seconds and maybe write a quick review It helps other people find the podcast that really helps me out and it helps them out And I thank you so much for that So that is it. We are out of here. Thank you for coming by I will be back next week again I do not know what I will be talking about but I will be here and remember as always This is the way