 Okay, the recording started. Welcome back to the continuation of our lecture today on Christian apologetics. So, yeah, so thank you for sharing your thoughts and I'm just responding to Shri Kumar's comment. A past in that case, eunuchs are natural. I'm not sure what you were alluding to, but there are, okay, there are people who are born with physical deformities. Again, it's not God's design, but we know, as we've studied earlier, there's a deviation from God's original design. And then there's help that we, you know, medically provide or medically can provide. And then they, they, then, so I'm not sure whether you're talking about those. So Shri Kumar, what were you talking about? Like in, are you talking about the medical conditions people are born with or Shri Kumar's on the call, not on the call. Okay. All right. Shri Kumar's not on the call. So I'm not at the moment. So I don't see him yet. Okay. So I'm not exactly sure what Shri Kumar was referring to in that statement. So I'm not going to try and presume something. Let's see if he does come back, we will get an explanation. Okay. Let's move forward. Go ahead, Christopher. So we can't hear you. Yes, go ahead. No, I just wanted to understand. Are there any, I mean, biblical differences of, you know, levels of, of sin in, you know, you know, in the case of sexual improv, improbability or deviation or whatever. Because, you know, in case of, you know, a homosexual requires, you know, in a sense, special counseling. Would that also apply to, you know, people who are, you know, living promiscuous, sexually promiscuous lives and the church is aware of it. And that's, you know, they're still in that, in that, you know, they're still doing it. So just wanted to understand, you know, how would a homosexual be treated differently versus someone who is, you know, promiscuous sexually? The answer would be no. You know, for all, all call forms of sin have to be addressed, whether it is sexual and various kinds of sexual sin or whether it's, you know, other kinds of behavior, like maybe stealing or lying or sowing discord or this unity and all of these are sins. And they have to be addressed and they're equally sinful. I mean, I don't, for example, which is more sinful, murdering a person or hating a person. You know, in the New Testament, hate is equivalent to murder. What is more sinful? Committing the act of adultery or lusting after a woman in your heart. In the New Testament, Jesus put both as saying, you know, so our approach is that, look, we want the body to be whole, healthy and holy. And so whether it's hatred or whether it's murder, whether it's adultery or whether it's lustful thinking, we have to deal with all of it, you know, as sin. And, you know, we minister, teach preach minister to help people live victorious lives. So to answer your question, because we shouldn't treat any of these things differently, all treated them, you know, equally minister to them. But we do understand that there are things that we don't want to pass on to other people in the sense that if a person's, you know, living a sexually moral life, whatever form of immorality that is, others shouldn't look at that and say, okay, even I can continue living that way. Right. So there's a point in time where people have to draw the line and say, look, this cannot continue in the house of God. So we have many examples. You know, first Corinthians five, Paul tells them to deal with such sin in the church, he says, you know, you got to put that out. That means this man was living in immorality and then Paul says, look, as part of the discipline, you had to put him out. But if he changes, which he did, you restore him back into fellowship. So that's because we don't want that people to think that, okay, we are condoning it therefore it's okay and others can do the same thing. Yeah, because a little leaven leavens the whole lump. That's what Paul's explanation for us and for Corinthians five is. And so we need to deal with that in that manner. Is it okay, Christopher? All right, Samuel, your question or your comment? Thank you, Pastor. I'm still trying to decide whether it's a question or a comment. But I think I'm tangled a little bit in what I'm hearing. So, especially in terms of condoning or even trying to help a person who says or who thinks he's homosexual. Like one is, you know, I mean, one way I look at it is like, like heterosexual men can have sexual relationships with multiple women. But it's a self-discipline of hiding in the word of God that I will not indulge in such thing outside my marriage. And that's a choice, even though I can, but because of what I believe in, I will not. So I think, so in that context, a person who may say like, I'm attracted to another man. But so that means he is claiming or in some ways saying like my sexual preference is different. But I will not indulge in that. And I will do something like I will put myself in discipline and probably I'm not attracted to women. So I'll just be single. But I'm not given to my sexual treasures. And I mean, I'll probably never celebrate life. But then still, so he's not indulging the act in the act of homosexuality, but at the same time, he's acknowledging that he's he or she. So, so how I mean, so is a man like, let's say, you know, the man says like I've tried everything, but I'm thereby confirming that I'm a homosexual, even, even though God doesn't approve it. So I'm not, I'm not indulging the activity. So, so do we still condone him because of his declaration or because of what he has come to believe in? So that's what they say. As long as you're not committing the act of sexual, not sleeping at the same partner, but as long as you're declaring that's okay, which again doesn't feel right. So similarly, you know, in the case of transgender, a person who is not homosexual is married to opposite sex, but somehow believe he or she is trapped in a different gender body and chooses to address differently or address himself or his or her differences. Even though, you know, it's just the identity of people. I think if I feel it's getting a model, you know, if it was just, I think, confined to sexual preference, marriage, you know, it becomes simplifying decisions and it helps people. But now it seems to be getting a little complicated because of the identity as to coming in there and they may not be committing, but maybe addressing or using like a different way to address themselves. And I see a lot, you know, coming like even, even regular people these days put a he, she, him, or sorry, he, him, his obliques next to their names. So things like that where it's not the act, but it's just a message that you're sending. How do we respond to that? So our response is any deviation from God's design, whether it's thought word or deed is wrong. So the emphasis is not just on the deed. It's whether, look, I'll be deviating from God's design in thought word or deed. So we can even sit in thoughts, right? That's what the Bible tells us, you know, to think on things that appear righteous true. So even if my thought is deviated from God's original design, that's wrong, right? So any deviation from God's original design and thought word or deed is out of order. So that's the standard. So going back to the first part of what you presented, you know, it's, it's good that somebody's not actually engaging in the deed. But look, we need to align ourselves with God, even in thought and word. So I can't say, well, I've aligned my God, myself to God in my deed, but in my thought and word, I'm contrary to God. No, you know, we need to align ourselves to God, thought word indeed. So that's what we're going to work towards. That's what we should desire for, you know, and God can think about that change in the hearts and minds of people. And in the case of transgenders, you know, the, I'm not sure I have a complete answer, but we just have to say, look, this is God's design. Let's stay aligned to that, right? Celebrate the way, whether you're a man or a woman, celebrate the way God made you and grow in it and, you know, stay aligned to God's design. It's easier said on a call like this than in practice, but then I'm sure God will give us the wisdom, the understanding on how to work that out in practice. But as a principle, our principles, you have to stay aligned to God's design and thought word indeed. And how we work towards it, God will give us the wisdom, the grace to do that is how I would respond to both these ideas. It's clear. It's clear. Thank you. All right. Thank you now. Let's move to some other difficult topics. Okay. Divorce. Divorce. We know that, you know, God is not a proof of divorce. God has made marriage for a lifetime. And, you know, in marriage, there can be, you know, as people, you know, as two married people, husband and wife, they're joining together. There can be difficult things happen. You know, there could be failure, moral, financial, etc. And then there is the opportunity to forgive, bring healing, restoration. But then there are situations where divorce is permitted in scripture. One is in the case of unfaithfulness. Another case of willful desertion of an unbelieving spouse. And any violation of the marriage covenant, so which would include physical emotional abuse. That means two people didn't get married or enter into a covenant for so that one person could just end up abusing the other person. No, that's not the covenant, right? The covenant is that you're entering into this marriage to honor each other. So in the case of physical emotional abuse, there is a violation of the covenant in that sense. And so even there, and you can see this in Malachi chapter two, you know, God says, you know, when you're covering this, you're skirt with violence. So there is violence when there's violence involved, then usually the only option left is for them to end their marriage and divorce. So we understand divorce is not God's design. But yet in scripture, he has when there's a violation of the covenant that you've entered into. Yes, people can forgive. That's forgiveness is an option. For example, if there's unfaithfulness in the marriage, the other person has option to forgive if there is repentance and, you know, reconciliation. But if this, you know, the person's continuing to live that way, then there's nothing wrong in saying, look, the marriage covenant has been violated and God permits divorce under such situations. So you don't have to stay in that marriage. If the other person has violated the covenant, either through adultery, willful desertion, or in some form of abuse that's ongoing continuing and that's not being rectified, remedied, then, you know, we know that's not God's best, but then there's no other option but to end the marriage and divorce. And as pastors, as leaders, you know, you will face these situations. And I faced all kinds of crazy situations. You know, I think perhaps the most craziest was. I just had this one instance and we will move on and I'll keep asking if there are any questions, but perhaps the craziest was when two people, believers got married. And within the first three months, you know, the girl, now both were doctors, both were medical doctors, so qualified everything, you know, they got married. Within the first three months, the girl caught her visa and left for the US disappeared. This was a shock. This was really crazy. So just, you know, then looking back, we think that the only reason she got married was so that she could get a visa. And she could, you know, she could prove that, look, I am married, so I have to come back to India. So they gave her the visa and that's it, she left. So, you know, what do you do in a situation like that? The only option was for the man to, you know, file for a divorce, end the marriage and move on in life. But this happened within three months and I was like, whoa, you know, just really crazy. And this is like two Christians, you know, and the lady just disappeared in the US. So, you know, there are these different kinds of situations and we have to work with people. And, you know, we, we don't want to go to an extreme where divorce happens at the drop of a hat. But there are these situations where that's the only option as we see, you know, biblically, either an unfaithfulness or a willful desertion, which happened in the example I just mentioned, or there is ongoing abuse that is harmful. Right. So any questions on this subject of divorce? We know where the Bible, where we stand, we are all in agreement. Any questions on this? Okay. Yeah, I just noticed that you have, you may have addressed it, but notice that you had two question marks on the physical and emotional abuse. So, so I understand it's not actually addressed in the Bible, but it could be, you know, a reason for, for filing for divorce, right? But how would, how would one, how would one sort of the physical, physical abuse, maybe I can, you know, that could be sort of, you know, easier to understand. But how would we sort of define the emotional abuse aspect of it? Yeah, so the reason I put it in question marks is it's not that, you know, just because there's one incident of a physical abuse, things have to end in divorce. You know, right? There's always forgiveness, healing, so on. Emotional abuse can come in many ways. It could come through verbal attacks. It could come through just abusive control of the person. You're okay, you shouldn't do this, you can't go out, you can't do this, you can't do that. So there's may not be any physical harm to the person, but it's like, hey, the person is not able to live their life, you know, and so it can be harmful. And the reason I put it in question marks is it's not, you know, a clearly defined thing, but that's when, you know, you really look into the situations and look, can this be resolved? Is it just a lack of understanding, a lack of relational skills that we need to bring in? Or is it really something bad that's really harmful for the other person that's destructive to the marriage where the person doing the harm is unwilling to change, unwilling to receive, right? So we'll have to, you know, look at the situation, see, you know, to what degree, what is happening, and then, you know, then take action. So for example, you know, if two people are living together, husband and wife are there, but let's say the husband is just totally neglected his wife, there's no care, no love and affection, and it's like just, you know, and is suppressing the wife completely, no freedom, not providing, and then, you know, in some way oppressing the wife, you know, based on extended family, you know, as in India typical situations would be blaming the wife for not bringing enough money or blaming the wife and her extended family, all that. You know, so then that's very oppressive environments. Then that's where, you know, if the husband is not willing to receive any help to change, and that man just not happening, you know, not being restored to what the, what a real, what marriage is supposed to be. That's when you have to say, look, it's very harmful for the other person living in a situation like that. Yeah. So it is subjective. I've put question marks there because it's we don't want to do it arbitrarily or randomly. But we have to look into the situation and see what's going on. Okay. Yeah, I need to, you know, yeah, I see a comment there when people are not actively involved in relationship. Yeah. So our first goal is always to see if that can be remedied, you know, and in many cases, it just developing skills or relational skills, learning how to relate. Yeah. You know, again, one one incident when two young people were married. There was no violence, but the husband was very angry. I mean, he just used to flare up. Now, you know, and, and, you know, he would throw things around and all of that and the wife was so scared. And I think that marriage lasted six months because of maybe even less. I don't exactly know, but I don't think it lasted more than six months. And the wife was so scared because the husband, if he got angry, he would just anything can happen. Now, he had till that time, he had not really, at least as far as I remember, he had not physically abused his wife. But she was just so afraid that if he got angry, maybe her life. The next thing was her life would be at stake. But and he threatened things like, you know, they were living on a high story building. He was threatening like, you know, I will push you off the apartment, these kinds of things, you know, and this all happened within the first few months of marriage. Eventually, she was so scared. The only thing she did, only option was she left and she came back home to her parents. Because it was all because of the anger and the fear that came around with it and the trips that were made. Now, you know, at APC here in Bangalore, we require people before they get married, we require that they go through our marriage preparation course, which is about five months long. We take them through the marriage and family manual, which I think you are going through the semester or maybe next semester. And maybe I think you're going through the semester. So we tell them you have to finish this course only then we'll get you married. So we make it mandatory for them to go through this, you know, the five month course. But sometimes people don't do that. They just get married. And then problems happen and then it's like really difficult for us to try to fix it, you know, and that's what happened in this couple's case. I mean, the marriage course was available. We advised them to go through it. They didn't. And then suddenly after marriage, this whole thing happened and it ended in divorce. Because the wife couldn't stand to stay in that relationship. But it was very sad because I felt like, look, at least if they'd gone through the course, these problems would have been addressed. Or at least exposed and either the marriage would have been prevented or the problem would be addressed before marriage. But sometimes, you know, people don't make use of what's available to them. And this is what happened. So this is an example where there was no physical violence, but the emotional thing was so tormenting. The wife couldn't stay. She left. And she was afraid for her own life because of the threats. And yeah. Okay. So let's move on to the next. Let's try to move forward a little bit. Abortion. Okay. Yeah, we did divorce abortion. So abortions again, a very big issue. And we know it's wrong to take the life of an unborn child. And of course, you know, in the western world and other nations, especially in America, this is like a very divisive, very, very big issue. We know abortion is wrong. And but what about situations in the case of a young unmarried woman, in the case of, you know, if somebody gets pregnant, they didn't want to. There was or maybe somebody felt it's too early in marriage, or in the case of rape and those kinds of things. So there's a lot of other situations around it. Right. So our goal, of course, is to save the life of the unborn child. That's that's our goal. We, we want the life of the unborn child to be saved. But if the mother's life is at risk, of course, then you have to make a choice. Whom do you want the life? Do you want the mother to die? Do you want the baby to be alive? And so normally in that case, which okay, yeah, you know, the mother's life is at risk. I mean, okay. So here again, you see, there's the whole issue of faith, right? Now, we can't force people to take, to choose the path of faith. And they have to make the choice. So in situations like this, and as a pastor, you would face this, like, you know, a couple, they are the mother, the wife is pregnant. They've been going through the regular checkups and then the doctor gives them some news. Like, you know, example would be, well, the child is not, you know, something wrong with the child physically. I mean, it's the child is not formed properly. So the doctor recommends to abort the child. That's one scenario. What would you do? Second, you know, for whatever reason, the mother's life is at risk. So what should you do? I mean, to the doctors recommending abort the child because the mother's life is at risk. The mother will not live through the pregnancy. And what would you do? Right? So these are difficult questions because no, you cannot force the couple, even if they are believers, you cannot force them to walk by faith in that situation. You can't say, well, just have faith and the baby will come out all right. Or just have faith, the mother will survive the pregnancy. Now, if they choose, they choose to walk by faith, you support them. If they choose to take the doctor's advice and abort the baby, you support them. Right? So in my experience, I've had both happen. There have been situations where, you know, based on this news, the doctor said, you know, the child is not well-formed, you please abort. But the couple decided to go ahead with the pregnancy. So we stood with them, prayed with them. Right? Now, the child eventually died within a few days. Fine. But at least we didn't force them to make a choice. We just journeyed with them in faith. In other cases, couples opted to abort the baby. Fine. That's your choice. Don't feel guilty about it in this case because, you know, the doctor saw, you know, what was wrong, they advised and they went through the medical, went according to the medical advice. We just stood with them. We don't condemn them for their choice of abortion because there was a life-threatening situation or there was a medical complications involved and they chose to follow the medical advice. It's okay. We stand with them. Right? Then there are these other cases, situations where, you know, whatever woman is raped and so on. So again, we don't want to force our ideas. I mean, yes, we want to save the life of the child, but what if the woman chooses not to have the child? We don't want to force truth against their will. Like we said earlier, as part of our framework, we let them make the choice. We support them and stand with them. Right? Now, in these earlier cases that we mentioned, of course, we want to save the life of the child and, you know, we don't want people to just arbitrarily terminate pregnancies. We want to support, we want, you know, to preserve the life which I'll be so there again, we can guide them, but we have to provide options. So if we say, okay, you go ahead, have the baby, then we provide them options, we have to provide them options. And how are they going to care for the baby? What if they don't have the means to care for the baby? Yeah, you know, we'll have to provide options if you're going to encourage them to, you know, have the child and support the child. So while we know abortion is wrong, we will have to think of the various scenarios. We have to don't force our faith on people, but journey with them in faith, as in these cases that we mentioned. And in other situations where we encourage people to go through, we need to have the child. We need to provide them with support and options to take care of the child post delivery. Okay, so that is very quick, you know, perspective on that. I just want to see if there are any questions, any other thoughts or any other scenarios we need to address. Now, I know, you know, in the western world, and I'm just thinking about America, abortion is such a big issue that, you know, people, the church is divided, the people are divided politically, parties and based on this whole thing. And so there's the big question of can this whole thing be legislated, you know, can you dictate moral choices based on legislation? Are there all these big questions, you know? And so people have been fighting over it and so on. And, but at the end of the day, remember it's a moral choice, right? Legislation can be there, but there will always be loop holes where people find ways to work around it. But ultimately it's a choice of the heart. So we have to work towards that and helping people understand what is the right choice to make. And journey with them in faith, in love, as they make the choice. Some other issues that are becoming important are enough relevance to which the church has to respond. I think, let's look at these two. Climate change and environment and then genetics. So climate change and environment, you know, again here the Christian church is divided. One side, there are people who say, why are you even worried about this? This is a non-issue. Because anyway, there are going to be new heavens and new earths. Anyway, this planet is going to be destroyed. God is going to, you know, destroy everything with fire. So why are you worried? Why are you wasting time, money and energy on talking about climate change and environment? It's all going to end up in the fire anyway. So you have Christians and believers who are positioned that way and they don't think climate change is a big deal. Don't waste time on it, don't even talk about it, etc. The environment, climate change and the environment. On the other hand, you have people, believers, who say that, look, God put us in charge of the earth. In Psalm 115 verse 16, the earth is given to the children of men. So he's made us stewards and we are stewards of everything. We are stewards of the natural resources. We are stewards of the environment. And so even though we have the understanding of eschatology, that is what is going to happen, that the earth is going to be burned with fire and there are going to be new heavens in the earth. We do believe in that. But as long as we are on the earth, we need to be responsible and good stewards of the earth. So therefore climate change, taking care of the environment, deforestation, all these kinds of things are matters of importance. We need to act, we need to take action. We need to do our part in taking care of our environment. So you have Christians who are positioned like that. So you have Christians on both sides and having both views. Now personally, and this is my personal positioning, I believe we have to be responsible. We have to be good stewards of the environment. God has put us in charge of the planet. We have to take care of the resources that God has given to us. We have to do our part. Even though we know that everything is going to be destroyed by fire, there are going to be new heavens and the new earth, God is going to do everything good. But while we are on the earth, there are my believers, we have to be good stewards. So stewardship is important. It's a biblical truth and we can extend it even to our planet and the environment we do our part. But I don't feel the church should start fighting over each other over the matter if we can agree and work meaningfully on the subject. That would be good. And we don't want the issue of climate change to overwrite the main things that the church is called to do. So if there are people who differ in their opinion on the perspective, okay, I'm not going to argue and fight over it. Because there are more important things we're supposed to call to do as a church. I understand climate change, but I'm not going to make that the big issue. The big issue is preaching the gospel and glorifying Jesus Christ. Is that okay? Any thoughts, any comments? The last issue, social challenge that we will need to talk about, is about genetics. So as science has progressed, we have developed abilities, not only to study life at the level of the genes, but we've also developed the ability and techniques to modify the genetics, the genes, work with the genetic code and so on. So we call it gene editing and so on. So you can cut parts of the DNA and then work with that and so on. Or genetic modification. Initially, this was being used in various ways, like you can use it in agriculture to genetically modify certain crops, so that crops that generally grow in this kind of a weather can be adapted to grow in this kind of a weather conditions, which then helped crop production of fruits and vegetables and so on. There could be those kinds of improvements that were made. Okay, some people were okay with it, some people were not, but they were putting it to constructive use. But then as understanding and techniques increased, we said, okay, what about using gene editing to treat and heal sicknesses? So we understood that certain parts of genes are connected, associated with certain kinds of diseases. So what if we go in there and treat this disease at the genetic level? What if we take preventive measures? We edit so that we prevent a certain disease from happening, not only from a curative point of view, but also from a preventive point of view. Then that whole idea extended to, hey, how about we can make improvements so we can create a better human being physically by modifying the gene. So it's not just treating sickness or preventing sickness, but what if we edit to improve the kind of person that's going to happen? So we're actually modifying it to create new kinds of, I wouldn't say new kinds, but people that have better qualities or better physical characteristics or things like that, that are defined or identified, influenced by those segments of the genetic code. So this has opened up a whole big area where what does the church stand on this? Does the church approve of this or is this not approved? We began with using it for general purposes, trying to improve crops and vegetation and things like that. And now we are coming into trying to heal sicknesses, prevent sicknesses, and then now we improve the quality of life. And so where else is this going to lead us to? So I know we just have six minutes on this, but I want to hear your thoughts. I think what would be the church's response to something like this? Anyone? Yes. I think there needs to be a ten dividing line between what is natural and what becomes, gets into this unnatural kind of create something, to change something that comes out of a natural process. And definitely a creation of a gene or something that will make a human being better, I think it goes beyond a natural process. To prevent something, that's where that thin dividing line gets even more thinner, I think. So just my initial thoughts. But just related to that, and probably not really related to genetics, but I just wanted to also get your view on the aspect of artificial insemination and test your babies and all that, which is again goes into this real more natural and unnatural sort of creating something that outside of a natural process, creation of a test your baby, which has been there for some years now. And what would be your view on that? Yeah. So just in a really quick way, my thoughts, and I'm not saying, you know, this is like 100% biblical or something, you know, but I feel that as long as we use science for in a way that that is positive, that is good for us. But without overriding. And again, we don't mean it's pretty hard to say where bed is this end, where does this stop. But okay, use it for good things. Right. So yeah. So whether it's, you know, organ transplant, as Beth has mentioned, whether it's genetic editing in order to prevent a disease or cure a disease or find a solution. And it is working. It is people are, you know, living better and being prevent disease are being cured through that these techniques. So my thought is, yeah, that's okay. Right. It's fine because you are helping people. You are curing a disease. You're preventing a disease. So to that extent, I personally feel comfortable using science and developing techniques and so on. But what I'm not very comfortable with and I'm just using the word comfortable because, you know, I can't prove any of these things with chapter and words. I'm just giving you my perspective. But I am not very sure about and feel you have to be very cautious about is and we are trying to generate something better. And I think that's the question why not when you're creating a better person creating, you know, example is simple things like, okay, what if you can make a person of a better height by let's say by default they're going to be born at five feet. But what if you can do something to give them, you know, five eight or six feet. If they want, you know, something or or I'm just making this up. I'm just saying, you know, something that that's they that would be better or certain other characteristics. Why not somebody last why not, you know, you're that person's going to have a better quality of life. So why can't we do it. The danger with that is we don't know where it'll all go and where do you pause. So that's why I'm a little uncomfortable with that progression. But I'm perfectly fine personally speaking at the using science to put constructive things either to make something. Yeah, cure disease address a problem. And so on. But very, you know, how far all of this course is a big, big question. And I guess that the issue like what brother Manohar has put there is we don't want to put tempo with God's design. At the same time, we want to be able to use the knowledge we have for constructive healthy purposes. So at this moment, I don't think anybody, not even the scientific community and surely not even from the church has there been a line drawn saying this is where we should stop things. It's still in the process of debate. And both the scientific community is also asking questions, you know, where should this go where should the stop. But what I would like to point out is that, you know, the article from Catholic Church, of course, is that there is a look the church must be involved and engage in this because the church, you know, does need to have a say where do we draw the line where we stop changing God's design, but using knowledge in a very positive constructive way. You know, so the church needs to engage and be able to help in determining this, you know. So this is an area of debate, but I want us to think about it and you know, we'll see where things go, but the church needs to have a voice, and it needs to be the pillar and ground of truth, even in this area of science. Okay. So Kennedy has asked the question. How do you use drugs? Yeah, I would, I would leave it to the individual, Kennedy, I, I, you know, I wouldn't. I want to say I haven't really thought of that, but I would definitely leave it to the individual to decide, you know, where that would go. All right. Oh yeah, there's two babies. I thought there is, you know, if you're helping a couple have a child, I don't see anything wrong in that. I know it's outside of the normal process. Yeah. At least at this point, Christopher and I don't have a different answer but at this point personally I don't see anything wrong. And in the news we're reading about all kinds of, you know, it related to this area of babies and in vitro fertilization and so on. And we're reading a lot about it, but my thing is, okay, if a couple has helped have a baby, okay, you know, it's fine. But I haven't thought through on all the other ramifications. I'm just looking at it from the perspective of you're helping a couple have a child. Okay. I don't see anything wrong in that. But what are the other ramifications? I think we need to think about it. Okay. I know we, we've kind of gone into our break time. But let's just pray and we will dismiss. We will meet again next week, Thursday to kind of bring this course to a close. Can I just review everything and put things together. So we will be next week will be a last lecture on in Christian apologetics. Right. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But like I said, I haven't, you know, thought through on this whole, full picture on this. So I wouldn't, yeah, I wouldn't know for sure. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's just close in prayer. We will bring this Christian apologetics course to close next week. Let me meet on Thursday, the 18th. Could somebody just pray with us and we will dismiss. I would like to pray. All right. Maggie to pray, please. Yes, sir. Okay. Let's pray. Holy Father, we thank you, Lord. We thank you for the wisdom and understanding, Lord, that you've given us through your Holy Spirit, Lord. As we live in the world, Father, you give us wisdom and understanding. You give us intelligence. So we can work with what you've created and what you've made both for good and for the glory of your name, Lord. Even though the world might not understand it, people might not see it in the way that you would like it to be seen. But you give us this knowledge. You give us genetics. You give us everything that you created, Lord, so that we may glorify you and you make people to use for your glory. We preach this that you prepare our heart and give us knowledge and understanding, Lord, so that whenever the time comes for us to represent you, to defend your truth, to teach people about these things, Lord, give us wisdom, give us anointing, Lord, to be able to handle this in the way that glorify you and that points everyone to you, Jesus. Until you meet again, Lord, you pray for that. You build with us, protect us until next week in your mighty name, Jesus, we pray. Amen. Amen. All right. So next week we will meet again for Christian apologetics and wrap things up. All right. Next week will be a last session on Christian apologetics. We'll wrap things up. Let's take a quick break and we will meet in the keys to Supernatural Ministry next class shortly. Okay. God bless. Please take a break and meet again soon. Thank you.