 full microphones. Alright, so we are live on YouTubes. I'm going to start recording my hijack now. Hopefully no one will call. It happens. By the way, we got out to Brian who was very doting both before and after his speech where I talked today at South by. He was very supportive, offered to come back as soon as he got off stage to TD, which I think was 90% him wanting to support the program and at least 10 very, very real percentage points of him really enjoying TD. I think that there was a catharsis to him. Yeah, he's awesome at it. Yeah, it's an underworked muscle for him and because it's his studio, he can still just talk about whatever he wants. He can still just butt in and say, like, oh, yeah, I'm a guest now. Also, anyway, go back. Eric, I don't know if you do IRC ever. Does Eric know how to get into our chat room if he would like? He doesn't have to. I haven't chatted before. I don't know the address for this one though. Same one for night attack. Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, I don't need to tell you how the show goes, you know. Yeah, you know. I'm sad I'm not there. What would be Eric, what would be the best descriptor for your role at the Daily Dot? You could say tech policy reporter. That's kind of what I do most of the time. I'm sort of officially an editor, but it's mostly tech policy writing. Yeah. And then following Donald Trump's Twitter. Anybody else getting echo? I'm hearing the stream back. Oh, never mind. Pretend I didn't say that. That's from Diamond Club.tv. That didn't happen. I think it's fine. I'm a professional. It happens to all of us. Don't worry about it. It's fine. The moment of panic. It happens to the best. Alright, so Roger, are you recording? Just wave if you're recording. Okay. So why don't you put yourself behind the Roger picture. And I will stick around but unmute unless needed. And then, Bryce, are you recording? Yes, we are. Feels like we could do a show. Alright, it is 3.30 local time here in Austin. Let's... Can you test the theme song so I can check the audio on this again? Oh, yeah. Remember, that's not the first thing that plays though. Is that good? Yeah. Alright, y'all ready? Sure. Alright, let's go ahead and start this off. Do you struggle to get everything you plan all done in one week? Do you sometimes wish you had an extra couple of hours or maybe another day? We here at the Daily Tech News show think the same and with your help, we can add an extra day to your week. DailyTechNewsShow.com forward slash support with your help. Day 6, coming soon. This is the Daily Tech News show for Friday, March 11, 2016. I am Justin Robert Young filling in for Tom Merritt, who is currently giving a talk at the South by Southwest Festival, the Interactive Weekend here in lovely Austin in the great state of Texas. However, I can't do the show by myself, so I had to bring in, I had to recruit not one but two amazing guests. Let's start with the man who is physically sitting to my right, ladies and gentlemen, super smart person and all around rad individual inventor and a rack and tour. Jaime Ruiz, welcome back to the program. Justin, it's great to be here. I couldn't be in Austin and not be here. Well good. Well then we have fulfilled the prophecy. Also joining us is somebody making his debut on the show. He is the tech policy reporter for the Daily Dot and man, when it rains it pours for your beat. We have a ton of stuff to talk about. Eric Geller of the Daily Dot, welcome Eric. Thanks Justin, it's great to be here. Alright, well with that, let's go ahead and kick off the headlines. The U.S. Department of Justice filed a reply to Apple's motion to vacate an order for Apple to assist the FBI in accessing data on an iPhone 5C. The prosecutors wrote, quote, there is no reason to think that the code Apple writes in compliance with the order will ever leave Apple's possession. Nothing in the order requires Apple to provide that code to the government or to explain to the government how it works. They also noted that the phone was powered down when recovered and the owner had changed the iCloud password before the FBI obtained it. A hearing is scheduled for March 22nd. Circle that one on your calendars. Eric, there was a bit of a kerfuffle yesterday when people were parsing the language on this, on whether or not the FBI was aware of the difference between the password on the phone and the password for iCloud. Can you make some sense of this? Yeah, so there's actually two parts. There's that and then there's the question of the difference between what you choose to back up through iCloud sync and other data that gets backed up to Apple's servers. So the government was saying this dead terrorist had turned off various types of data back up. So even if we could have gotten some of his data through iCloud, that wouldn't have been available. In fact, that's only one way that you can transmit data to the cloud. Apple also gets data from your phone that isn't in that settings toggle on the iCloud panel. So there is an interesting question there of how much technical expertise did the FBI agents that were writing or supporting this brief even have? And you can bet that Apple is going to bring that up on March 22nd when they go to this courtroom in Riverside and brief the magistrate judge on this. So we talked about this on the show quite a bit. It's obviously going to be one of the defining news stories of the year, even this early that's very clear. But from your perspective, you followed this very, very closely, has the FBI stumbled in how they have responded? It seems like not only the tech-friendly press is very much kind of tilting this in Apple knowing what they're talking about in the FBI and not, but it seems like there are kind of some unforced errors on the FBI side. Oh, for sure. I mean, early on when they found out that this phone was in the car that they had detained or that they had taken possession of, they asked the county health department, which owns the phone because the terrorists worked for the county health department, they said, can you reset the iCloud password? And of course, what that does is it prevents you from connecting to a known Wi-Fi network, which could trigger an auto backup. So one of the ways they could have gotten some data is if they had done that, left the password alone, not tried to directly access the account, but plugged the iPhone into a power source connected to a known Wi-Fi network. They certainly could have gone to the couple's apartment for that. Instead, they said, we want you to reset the password. You can imagine, for me anyway, it's very difficult to believe that anybody with real understanding of how iCloud worked was involved at that early stage in terms of what are the steps you would take to get access. Well, you wouldn't do that if you knew that that reset turns off the possibility of an auto backup. And I think it's really, it behooves the FBI and the Justice Department to stop making these claims that Apple is just trying to protect its reputation and really admit that it botched this early on. And I think you see from Apple and from a lot of people watching that the FBI's reputation is just getting worse and worse at a time where it couldn't be more important for them to have a good reputation with these tech companies. It also seems that one of the central issues that they're going to deal with on the 22nd is whether or not, as the FBI made their case yesterday, they know exactly what the possible ramifications of what they're asking for are and the erosion of a public perception of their knowledge seems to be counterfactual to that. Yeah, I mean, you know, I've said this before, but if you think about how precedent works in a courtroom, we know from the past 15 years of looking at intelligence, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which was the subject of a large part of the Snowden leaks, that once you get a judge somewhere to accept a novel interpretation of a law, particularly a law where there isn't a lot of existing precedent, and in that case it's the All Ritz Act, which is the basis for this order, it becomes a lot easier to go to another judge and say, we got a judge over here in California to grant us this power. Now we want you to make Apple write some malware and send it to a suspect's iPhone in a software update. There is no clear cut prohibition on that kind of request, and so for Apple, you can imagine Apple sitting here saying, we largely avoided a lot of the reputational issues from the Snowden leaks, because we weren't voluntarily helping. Our data centers weren't being tapped. Google and Facebook got caught up in that. Well, now they're worried about what happens if we become an agent of the state in these situations. You know, you've already got tech blogs telling people how to turn off automatic updates, and that's a terrible idea for security, because Apple pushes bug fixes. They're genuine all the time. Imagine if, you know, if Justin, if you're scared that the FBI is going to try to send you malware, I wouldn't blame you for turning off automatic software updates, and yet that could be really bad for your own security. Turning now to the FCC, they issued a notice for proposed rulemaking that would require internet service providers to get permission before using customer data like browsing history or location data to target ads. ISPs could still use anonymized aggregated data without permission. Another provision would require ISPs to notify customers of data breaches within 10 days of discovery. The proposal is up for a vote on March 31, along with the earlier mentioned $9.25 internet broadband subsidy for low income household followed by the public comment period. We're going to get a little bit more into this because it's something that you delved into, Eric, today on The Daily Dot, but this seems, I don't know if it's possible for me to say it considering that they're public perception, but the more I read about this, the more I have a little bit of sympathy for the ISPs here. Yeah, I think it's interesting to think about the way in which they're being separated from, say, content companies, you know, Apple collects data, it's not big on advertising, but certainly Google is almost entirely about advertising, and so you can understand how the internet service providers might say, well, why aren't you applying rules like these to them? They collect even more data and their entire business is about that. On the other hand, the way that the FCC reapplied, or I should say applied net neutrality to the internet, to broadband, it effectively forces them to create these kinds of rules because these rules need to be applied to what are called common carriers. And so the ISPs can't exactly say this is coming out of nowhere. On the other hand, they are certainly the party that is perhaps the least interested in building a business just out of advertising, because they provide functional services. Yeah, yeah. I got some theories, but we're going to get into that in the in the discussion topic. Speaking of the FCC, ours Technicoraboard's Chinese networking hardware vendor TP-Link will block the ability to install open source firmware on its routers sold in the US on and after June 2nd, 2016 in order to comply with FCC requirements. In its FAQ TP-Link states, quote, the FCC requires all manufacturers to prevent users from having any direct ability to change RF parameters. That includes frequency limits, output power, country codes, etc. Last year, the FCC proposed a rule prohibiting the ability for users to alter frequencies, modulations and power levels of RF equipment to prevent RF interference. TP-Link says it will ship country specific firmware with their products. Jaime, you are an international man of mystery. I assume that you might be smuggling a different country specific version of a TP-Link router in your duffel the next time you visit, not to incriminate you. I can either confirm or deny it, Justin, but no, this effectively would limit your capacity to install DWRT, for example, which is the most common way to upgrade your firmware on your router and allows you to connect directly to VPNs, etc. And yes, this is very bad news for a lot of people who VPN to watch Netflix, for example, country specific locks. Yeah. In its Q1 2016 progress report, Yahoo Chief Architect at Moz Miamon, sorry, announced the company will close games, live text, and the boss search platform and regional sites Astrology and MacTube games ends on March 13th, live text and boss will close at the end of March and the regional properties will shut down over the coming weeks. Yahoo will focus on its core properties again, the ever-shifting core properties of Yahoo, which as we stand right now at 342 local time here in Texas is mail, search, tumblr, news, sports, finance and lifestyle. Please continue listening to the Daily Tech News Show for further updates. Eric, is there any surprise here that there's a little bit of a pruning or clarification of Yahoo while rumors swirl that they're trying to make themselves a little bit more attractive to sell? No, I mean, it's funny to think about how many things Yahoo has tried and said, we're going to be about this now. I mean, they bought tumblr, right? I don't know where that's going. But I mean, people still use Yahoo mail. So maybe that's good for them. I don't know. It's very hard for me to see. I guess I on the one hand, I say who would want to buy Yahoo? And on the other hand, they do have a vast user base. And we were just talking about advertising and data mining. Somebody's got to want that, you know? Well, certainly so. You know, it was not long ago that they were looking to be a premier content destination. And you know, where have you gone? Katie Couric, a nation that's lonely eyes to you. General Motors will buy San Francisco based self driving startup cruise automation continuing its forward thinking invested in acquisition strategy. According to the Verge GM will use startup the startups offices as an R&D facility and incorporate cruises technology and personnel to speed up plants to develop and launch self driving cars. Cruise automation boys 40 people and launched in 2014. Although terms of the deal were not discussed, recode cited sources saying GM paid a billion dollars for the deal. This follows GM's investment in Lyft and starting their own car sharing service. Maven. Jaime, this is an interesting company They initially had a lot of buzz about retrofitting your car to give it self driving capabilities. This was very, very limited to a few auto models. Do you think that this is the best place they've since pivoted from that? But but do you think that this is something that the GM is wise to invest in? Well, you have to consider that they also made a huge investment in Lyft, for example. Yeah, so they might be thinking of, you know, setting up a self driving overt type service. So it might be the best place to invest. Yeah, you know, this this feels in the tech world, you have the aqua hire deals, right, where it's really more about the brains than it is the product. And that's what this feels a little bit like is just get good people who are plugged in more on the California tech side and less on the Detroit auto side, right, and and use that to guide where they're going. But it seems like GM is making a lot of in a vacuum watching from the sidelines, smart moves in the space. Stevie zero sent us the news that Amazon Echo has learned a new skill, paying your capital one credit card bill. According to venture beat Alexa enabled devices will now allow capital one account holders to access information in checking and savings accounts and to pay those pesky credit card bills. Once you set it up, just say, Alexa, ask capital one to pay my credit card bill and other related phrases. No word on whether Alexa, don't let me use my capital one credit card anymore is an option. You know, this is something that we've we've talked about a few times here on the show that Echo wants to kind of just be the hub and they will make they will take control of your life one weird deal and one weird plug in at a time. This seems like another one of them, but I don't know how much this this always, you know, Jaime, whenever these services going to get into credit cards, yes, I feel like it's not necessarily a public thing, right? You don't necessarily want to be yelling about your credit card. It's a private. You just want to do it on your phone, maybe and also you you still want to be in the loop. You don't want your house to pay, you know, your credit card bills and everything you want. You want your robots to consult you once in a while. You don't want them to to have the capacity to live your life without you. So, Alexa, asking you to pay your bills, yes, that that almost seems like that you get hectoring very quickly. Yeah, I'd be lowering my self esteem as Alexa reminds me that my bill is indeed two months overdue. Yes, this is true. The next web reports that tomorrow ad block. All right, get ready, everybody. This one is a doozy ad block, the company for which it's not just a clever name blocks ads will show its users banner ads to protest online censorship. For 24 hours, users were will see messages from Edward Snowden, the Russian punk band pussy riot and Chinese artist Ai Weiwei as part of the World Day Against Cyber Censorship TLDR ad block will serve ads tomorrow. Eric ad block has recently had a huge dent in its online reputation when they revealed that there would be a program where they would whitelist some ads. This seems like red meat for the nerd set, although a little misguided as again, that they are ad block and now they are ad service. What's your take? Yeah, I mean, this is, I think for a lot of the people who just want an ad block of it works. This is maybe the only thing that that would get them not to criticize it, right? A lot of a lot of people who are tech savvy, understand online censorship and know that it's a problem and can, you know, maybe they'll grit their teeth a little bit. But for me, if I see this, you know, if I'm an ad block customer and I see this, I'm going to go all right, whatever, more people need to understand that censorship is a problem. More people need to hear from, you know, Ai Weiwei. There are going to be people who are mad because a product doesn't work the way it's supposed to, and that's fair. On the other hand, I don't know, I'd give them a pass on just this one thing. Maybe that's because I'm in my journalist transparency censorship mindset, but yeah, I mean, I is this the very nature of preaching to the choir, though, if you have if you have ad block, there's also like to quote Paula tradies, you who can stop a thing controls the thing. So it's a little, you know, ad block, flexing its muscle and saying, Well, if you want your ads to run, you better talk to me. And so or Ai Weiwei apparently, right? Remember, all those times you said you wouldn't pay or you would pay anything if only you could see those first run movies from the comfort of your own home. PC World reports that a startup called Screening Room is trying to make that vision an expensive reality like $150 set top box plus $50 per movie plus a 48 hour viewing restriction and two tickets to see that movie again in the theater of your choice. Why the high price? The company is currently in the meat in meetings with major studios and and this is the real key here. Theater chains like AMC, meaning exhibitors who have been the enemy of deals like this in the past would be getting a cut. You're going to read a lot of these stories about this where it talks about free tickets to the movie theater where you can see it. No, no, no, no. The reason why this is $50 is because you are going to buy at whatever subsidy to tickets from an exhibitor so they can still say that they sold tickets while you were watching it at home instead of buying a babysitter for the evening. Jaime, you are the only parent here. Is this attractive to you? Yes, it is. And for example, a good friend of mine just finished or set up his home theater and $50 for a first run movie. You know, he has 10 seats. It seems reasonable, $5 per person. You know, I think it's actually finally the correct solution. It's the right price range and $150 for a set top. That's high. That's very, very high though. A set top box that only does that or at best, it duplicates a lot of functionality that you can get a lot cheaper on a lot. I mean, we don't know how functional this will be, but very well-liked and popular set top boxes. That seems a bit... A Roku 3 is $99, so $150 for a special one. And we have to remember people who have these home theaters spend a lot of money on their set. So maybe is that where this is directed? Oh, most certainly. I can't imagine just, oh, kids gather around the 29-inch. Sure. No, this is for people who, after retiring to the grotto, file in into the personal theater so they can watch Ten Cloverfield Lane. The United States of America has a chief information officer. I don't know if that's news. It's probably not. His name is Tony Scott, and today he released a blog outlining the Obama administration's plans to bring open source computing to the U.S. government. Well, send me open. The request for public comment says, quote, new software developed specifically for or by the federal government and, quote, would be made for, quote, sharing and reuse across federal agencies. The plan would also include a pilot program that would result in a portion of the new federally funded custom code being released to the public. Eric, we talked to you today from Washington, D.C. This seems like an interesting proposal, and all I can think about when I read it was like, okay, so they want to fork off their own open source code that they can use to not pay for major licenses and then kind of share it with everybody, kind of in the same way that Obama's chef, like, shared his beer recipe, right? Yeah, and I mean this is part of an effort by the president to just in general open up more data to people and get what the government is doing to sort of spill out into the public. I think right now as we're recording this, maybe he's done by now, but the president is at South by Southwest talking about the power of data and technology he's trying to recruit people to work for the U.S. digital service which fixed healthcare.gov. So this is all kind of a piece with that, with that mantra that he has to, you know, we can't fully open up this data because some of it has proprietary, you know, national security code or what have you, but to the extent possible, we want to make sure whatever we do has some residual benefit to the private sector. I mean, it's a politically smart strategy, right? If you're going to have, if you're going to spend taxpayer money on new systems, complicated new systems, expensive new systems, you want even more so than normal the public to feel like they're getting something back from it. I mean, it's, you know, it's very easy to say that everything we did with the moon landing has produced benefits for society and that's why we should fund NASA. I think this is kind of part of that, is saying we're going to be spending money, you know, federal IT dollars on these new databases or what have you, but you're going to get something too. You're going to get ways to use that code in private sector applications. Well, Obama's certainly hoping that the nine most popular words in the English language is I'm from the government and I'm here to code. Exactly. Submit your stories, as many of these were, to dailytechnewshow.reddit.com, but that wraps up our headlines. Let's get into our discussion topic. We couldn't have Eric on the program without getting into some real dirt under the fingernails, nerdy tech policy coverage. So let's go ahead and start it off. The new Rockstar, you know, just lauded and fawned over by Nilay Patel at the verge this week. Tim Wheeler of the FCC now comes out and has the new proposal to limit the ISPs ability to use customer online activity for marketing purposes. The ISPs then respond, wailing and gnashing their teeth, that this is an unfair limitation of what they would, their abilities to use this data. And that, as you pointed out earlier in the show, Google and Facebook primarily, which very much rely on advertising already do far more than the ISPs are even hoping for. Again, this seems to be a little unfair, but as you mentioned, Eric, this is just part of the new normal of our post-net neutrality world, right? Yeah, and also, I mean, the ISPs, you know, as much as they want the focus to be on Google and Facebook, they do see all of your traffic, you know, everything you do unless you're using a VPN, unless you're encrypting a particular application, that's all available to them. And so I think the FCC knows that as people understand that more and more, they're going to want some restrictions. It's interesting to know how they've divided this up, so as you mentioned at the top, there are sort of three categories here. They can use anything that they need to gather for the purposes of providing your service, so they have your billing address, they don't have to tell you that they need that, they can just use that. You can opt out of a second category, you can opt into a third, and there's interesting, in the opt-in category, it basically is a catch-all. It's everything that wasn't included already, and I think that's what worries the ISPs, is yes we can use your billing address, yes we can use other things in order to market you services, and that's the second category. So you can opt out of that, but you're probably not, and we know that, and so they can sell their own product, right? And affiliates, so if Verizon, if you subscribe to Verizon's landline service, Verizon can give your email address and your information about your subscription to Verizon Wireless, so that it can try to sell you cell phone service to dovetail with your home internet service, but that is, again, that's very limited, you can imagine very few situations where somebody might be scared about that, because again, I don't need, if I'm Verizon, I don't need your browsing history to tell Verizon Wireless, hey you should try to get this guy as a customer, so that's information I can't share unless you opt in, right? Browsing history, what apps you open, you know, this applies to mobile too, so Verizon can see what apps you're using because it watches the traffic, that's not information that it needs in order to market to you, so that is in the opt-in category, that third very broad category, and as much as, again, we talked about Google and Facebook, that's a little bit different only in the sense that when I sign up for Google, I know because I'm using, I'm actively using Gmail, I know that it has to serve me ads, I know that it has to search my messages so that it can index them, I don't think about the ways in which subscribing to the internet opens up that exact same data to my ISP, and even if I think about it, it's certainly not what I would consider to be part of the trade-off, it's incidental, I can't get around it, and so that's the FCC's perspective is, you know, you've got Tom Wheeler saying, why don't we put some protections in for data that people don't associate with internet service the way they might with, you know, using Facebook? I think I called him Tim Wheeler, it's Tom Wheeler, sorry, go ahead. So he hates that, you're never going to get to talk to him now, he hates that. So Eric, if I understand correctly, they can use information for their own purposes but they cannot share it with the third party, they cannot sell the fact that you watch, you know, Hazel Cards on Netflix but they can use the fact that you use Netflix a lot to to sell you an additional service. Sure, and again, this, what's interesting here is the FCC had a press call and they made it clear that this doesn't apply to non- internet service content, so for example, you know Verizon owns AOL, it can't try to offer you AOL services based on what it knows about you as a Verizon customer because AOL isn't an internet subscription service, right, it's different from Verizon wireless in the sense that AOL offers email and I don't even know what AOL does anymore but it certainly doesn't do anything like Verizon or Comcast. You can only transfer data to a subsidiary or to an affiliate if they provide a service that is like internet service, in other words something analogous to that, so you can't, you know, if somebody owns Netflix, if Verizon bought Netflix tomorrow, it couldn't give Netflix information about you in order for Netflix to get you as a subscriber because that's not the same kind of service. So here's a quote from AT&T's Bob Quinn who's the Senior Vice President of Federal Regulatory Affairs. He says, Internet providers do not currently live in a regulatory free zone, so he wants to have you believe that this is not the wild west for them, they also have to be guided by the Federal Trade Commission. So why does the, you know, I guess what they're asking and here's my more general question for you, how long has this been bubbling up from the FCC to regulate this? Is this something that was a bit of a surprise or was this on the horizon for a little bit from the FCC's agenda? I wouldn't call it a surprise, I mean certainly just in the last few years as you've had, you know, Chairman Wheeler look at net neutrality and competition is his big mantra, that's what he always says and, you know, you can see how that sort of fits in here because the more you know about what your internet service provider collects, the more informed you are, the more you're able to make an informed decision about what to buy and so there's a competition angle there, but this specific proposal, it did surface just in the last, I would say the last year or so in terms of taking a lot of this away from the FTC, it's interesting to note that, you know, these companies really do want to be regulated by the FTC because the standard is much lower, or I guess I should say it's much higher to violate it, the FTC has a system that is basically built for an era before this kind of data collection, so there has to be something demonstrably unreasonable for example, I forget the section of the FTC statute, but it's a much more nebulous violation and so it's a lot easier to get around it and now that that's being tightened up, everybody in the industry is saying leave this to the FTC, they've done a pretty good job so far, but I think the FCC's point is this is a new era and there's new ground for different types of violations that weren't anticipated when the FTC's rules were written. It does seem like there's a tectonic plate shifting where now government is being forced to understand how different and far we've come, technically, and certainly a part of that. All right, well our pick of the day is from Chris in a sunny St. George, Utah. He writes Amazon gift certificates are a great tool for dealing with preloaded debit cards that are often sent out as rebates. On their own, those debit cards are awkward to use and can be frustrating if they're denied at the point of purchase. The company's issuing them, know this, and count on a percentage not being cashed in on the expiration date. For example, Staples likes to send out these debit cards and my most recent one had a six month time limit. So what do I do? I immediately use the debit card to buy an electronic gift certificate from Amazon, email it to myself, and then redeem it, so I have it on my credit on my Amazon account. As a prime member, there's no doubt I'll be able to use the funds on things that I want or need. It doesn't matter when the balance of the card gets low as Amazon will automatically apply that first and then when you ask to put the rest of the purchase on your card. Great, great, great tip because he is right. Now a lot of these things are just, they're meant to expire. They are there. Put out their understanding that a lot of that money will just go to waste, so instead put it on the everything store. Everybody use Amazon, right? Send your picks to a feedback at dailytechnewshow.com and you can find more picks at dailytechnewshow.com slash picks. Messages of the day come to feedback at dailytechnewshow.com as well in regards of the name of the next Android OS release. Brian writes it's got to be Nutella because it couldn't be Nutterbutter or even Nerds but since Google probably isn't going to pull a full KitKat, I'm going to go Nougat for the N Android release. It's still made of nuts and doesn't require a weird marketing deal. Eric, what's your favorite here? Nutterbutter, Nutella, Nerds or Nougat? I was going to say Nougat. I'm glad that we've got that out there. I like that one a lot. What do you like, hi man? I like Nutella. You like Nutella? Do I like Nutella? Yes. I think that would be both. I think it would be certainly a coup for the Google HQ lunch rooms. I'd love to see a Nutella deal. I mean think about the possibilities. You could get some free Nutella with your phone. I'd love that. Oh, yeah man. All right. We're going to get a little too excited here with the Nutella conversation. Arne from Germany here. Just a few words concerning your discussion from yesterday and built around ad blockers and browsers. If browser vendors think about implementing a less controversial form of ad blocking, meaning potentially less threatening for ad providers, while still being a nice marketable feature for their browser, why don't they put in an opt-in ad blocker? This could be a block the annoying ads on this site button. That way the users wouldn't blanket block all pages with the need to then whitelist certain pages again. Sure, they would see ads by default, but they would still have the handy and easy to understand tool to block out the bad players with a single click. I'm sure that there is a plug-in that already and naturally the sorry, the certain pages again later, sure they would see ads by default, but they wouldn't have, they would have a handy and easy tool to block out the bad players with a single click. I'm sure that there is a plug-in that already and naturally for the more tech savvy user would want more things like blocking tracking or finer control, but I think this would be a great feature for the average user who is just using their browser as it is. They are still the vast majority after all and it'll be a middle ground that even Google could be implemented, could see implemented in Chrome. Eric, this is our discussion yesterday about the idea of the Opera Browser putting in an ad blocker baked indirectly and whether or not we could see this being pushed forward with either Microsoft, Apple or Google. Do you think that some form of ad blocking could come baked in to one of the major players? I would say if anybody is going to do it, it would be Google just because I feel like Microsoft, Microsoft has been slow to add these kinds of things. I'm not really sure on Apple's position where it comes down on this, but Google seems like the company that would say we want to pretty up your experience as much as possible. I would also say that ads can inject essentially malicious content without you knowing it onto your system. There's a big security argument for ad blockers as well. It's very controversial among my colleagues, journalists who are paid on ad revenue, but ads are a security vulnerability and if anybody would make that argument it would be Google. But yeah, it's hard to predict just because Google's got relationships with publishers, right? I mean, that's the other thing. All these companies are starting to partner up. Apple has the Apple News platform and if you're partnered with the New York Times, you don't want to be offering a built-in ad blocker because that has lost revenue for the times. Well, I mean, and also as we discussed yesterday, Google the biggest ad sales company in the world. Yeah. The business of ad blocking would certainly be something that, you know, even talking about the FTC, you know, that's that I think that there's an interesting implications there. Yeah. My only concern with the clarification of ad blockers is that it makes the internet a pay as you go kind of thing where everything will have a subscription because, you know, ads will not be the main support. Yeah. I mean, you know, you can certainly draw the line there, but Arne from Germany, thank you so much for your email. You know, the only thing that I would say is that I think Eric made the crucial point that a lot of the most dangerous ads, if we're talking about bad actors, are not necessarily intrusive, visually. They are the ones that are malware and security vulnerabilities and to rely on an aesthetic judgment to say this adds bad. I don't like it. It's doing things I don't like. I think is probably the least likely to prevent the really, really, really bad stuff. But thank you for writing again. That is feedback at dailytechnewsshow.com. I want to thank my guests, Jaime and Eric. Let's start with you, Eric. You are at the Daily Dot. You are covering a tech policy and so much more. Where can people find your work? You can go to dailydot.com. We have a fantastic politics section there and usually one of the stories in our carousel there on the page has my byline. I'm covering Apple FBI as much as I can and cybersecurity, encryption, surveillance, privacy, anything that affects the government and you and regulation. Chances are I am writing about it. You can also follow me on Twitter at Eric Geller, E-R-I-C-G-E-L-L-E-R. A great Twitter follow, I would say. Thank you. And also just finger on the pulse of any kind of Daisy Ridley news. That's what I like the most. Daisy Ridley, Star Wars, Marvel and DC Comics. That's me. Awesome. Jaime? Yeah. Where can people find you? At tensorguy on Twitter, holovec.com is a good place to visit. There's news coming soon in that area. And new thing, little side project, follow at Toots with a Z, the unicorn on Twitter. Toots the unicorn. Toots the unicorn. Just follow it. Well, just leave that there. Yeah, just leave it there. Toots with a Z. Toots with a Z. T-O-O-T-Z, the unicorn on Twitter. Yes. The plot thickens. Speaking of a thickening of, I don't know anywhere I'm going with that. Wow. Thickening love for politics and all that goes along with it. You can celebrate that spirit of democracy by going to thecondender.us. It is a card game that I created with some extraordinarily talented and prettier enhancement than me, people. It's a social card game, like Herds Against Humanity or Apples to Apples. You host a debate amongst you and your friends. I like to think that it's a real fun time. So head on over there, thecondender.us. We also, on Amazon, finally have listed our politically incorrect expansion. So if you've got Prime, you can get both the base game and the expansion right there on Amazon. Thank you so much for supporting it. Speaking of thanks, thank you to the patrons who make this show possible. If you would like to go ahead and support the cause, head to dailytechnewshow.com slash support the march for a sixth day continues. And I have on good authority that at the Night Attack live event tomorrow, Tom Merritt will indeed be in attendance and will reveal a new Patreon goal. We're, and I know what this is. I'm under embargo, but I can say that this is a very, very, very exciting milestone that I think people will be very, very excited about. Once it is revealed, you'll be able to find out everything about it at patreon.com slash dtns and a Patreon ancient bag. Don't worry, man. Buy a mug, tell a friend. It's a fun time all around. Oh, hey, and this weekend, we'll, we will here on the feed have a new day six from Peter Wells in Australia in the dtns audio feed. But if you also want a UK perspective, why don't you check out text message? What's on text message, Nate? We're going to talk about something a bit mysterious this weekend. Ever heard of the term tetrophobia or quadrophobia? Fear of things involving the number four. Well, interestingly, the Samsung Galaxy S7 has a quad core processor in the United States, but an octa core eight processor elsewhere in the world. Ever wondered why? Well, we're going to look into why and what the difference between those processes actually is. That's coming up this Sunday on text message, textmessage.co.uk, or simply techpodcast.uk. Thank you, Nate. Our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. Call us at 512-59-daily. Again, that is 512-59-daily. You can get the show on. Oh, here we go. No, there we go. Yeah, you can get the show live Monday through Friday at 4.30 p.m. Eastern at alphageekradio.com and diamondclub.tv. And visit our website, dailytechnewshow.com. Tom is back on Monday to get the outro right and talk to Veronica Belmont. Have a great weekend, everybody. This show is part of the Frogpants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program. And we're out. Great show, really. Thank you so much, Eric. That was amazing. And hopefully you had a good enough time that you'll be back on. Oh, sure. I'd love that. It was great to talk to you and thanks for having me. Yeah, it was great. Great info. Thank you, man. No, I think, Eric, you have a great talent. Darren Kitchen, who's on the show, also has this great talent of bringing hacker stuff and security stuff to a layman level. I think that for as much time and effort as you spend diving through some of the minutiae Apple FBI stuff or the FCC stuff, that it's really, really rad to have you on. Because I think you're a great communicator on the subject. Oh, thank you. It's kind of you. So we usually hang around and just hang around. If you have either A, a job, or B, a life, you're welcome to go to either of them or welcome to hang out with us. Yeah, no, listen, it's happy hour in BC. So you are free to roll out, Eric. Go find some sources. Well, I'm going to go see what Obama said. Apparently he commented on the FBI thing. So I'm going to go find that out. Oh, crap. But thank you guys so much. Thank you. It's fine. It wasn't a big thing. So I don't think I missed anything big. Just want to check in. But thanks, guys. It was great to talk to you. Thank you very much. I'm going to sit on that he's a female body inspector. Oh, that's weird. Did he comment on the traffic in Austin? Because it was. Was it thick? Oh, shoot, yes. How is he going to have traffic? They blocked off all the road. So Tom's panel got delayed by a half hour, which meant he probably couldn't have done the show. But only from the panel. Oh, well, that's, that's. Man, up until the outro, I feel like we did a competent job. It was a great job. And don't worry about the outro. That just. They were old Tom stories. They were all very. Yeah, they were meaty. That's because Roger picked them all today. Since basically like a clone of Tom's brain. Yeah, in many ways. Yeah, it would have just been all Hearthstone expansion news. So should I clip out the audio from my. So I had a couple of beans in my. Yeah, I believe Bryce is doing it and putting it in our Dropbox. I can't get into Dropbox right now. So I'm going to put it. I'm going to send us a link to your drop, whatever you got. Yeah, just send the Dropbox link in Slack. Now Roger, are you going to do publishing? And I'll walk you like kind of walk you through it. Sure, I haven't done it before. So I need to tweak the audit. We also have to pick titles. Yes, I like Alexa. What's in my wallet? There could be others. I couldn't think of a good what's in my wallet joke. I was trying to think of one. There's whatever happened to Katie Couric. A personal favorite of mine. But that's probably a little. That's not a Tom title. I don't know. But that's probably a little. That's not a Tom title. Add ironic. Can you reference two topics just to piss off Tom? Yeah. The phantom blocker of the opera. I like that. Wait, hold on. This is crazy. This is a sign of maturity. What you got? I don't see a single show without merit. Oh, no, there's one. There's one right over the top. Oh, there we go. There's Babcat. Sorry, we're not all grown up yet. No, one day. I dream of a world. I dream of a dance society. I'm not recording. I stopped. Okay. Cool. You're responding to Jenny from Yes, I'm from the recording. I'm sorry. What about Alexa, what's in my wallet? I like that. That's the title. I'm going to write it down because sometimes it goes away before I So I should clip out this audio first, right? Wait, isn't Bryce sending a nice handy No, I thought Bryce had trouble. Wait, you're sending it into Look, he just sent into Slack a link that you can download. That's you, Jenny. Can you forward that? I can do it. It's no problem. Can I just do it? Well, if you do, can you Yeah, I'll walk you through it off the stream. Yeah. Neshcom, has this been levelated? That might be one problem. It has not been. My levelator does not work on this laptop. Let me... I'll levelate it. Well, it's going to take too many... All right, do this. Roger, do this. Levelate it. It's clipped, right, Neshcom? Yes, it is. Levelate it. No, it's going to take too long. Upload it to SoundCloud. I need to change the file name and add all the title tracks at the start. Hold on, let me get my laptop out because my laptop still has levelator. This always happens. Something like this always happens. We are going to drop off the stream because now it's going to get ugly. Bye, everybody. Bye, thanks for watching.