 very much so I don't think any of us anticipated such a complete success in the mission and what we really went there for. Well we'll get on to our questions. I wanted to ask you, you've been photographed with a lot of presidents and I understand the only one you have here, a photograph you have here with your family is the one with Eisenhower and why is that? Well there happened to be two over there and really they're the only, they came here with me so they're the, brought them from home. The one is at the dedication of Eisenhower Medical Center in Palm Springs and the other is the president, well after he was no longer president and I was governor but we're on the first tee of a golf course down at Palm Springs just before we set out for 18 holes of golf. Did you shoot, did you beat him? Well the funny thing is I did but I was in 1968 and those, those just those are all personal possessions and so I had those. Did he need something special to you? Yes I liked him very much and I think it was a far better president. You know there's a tendency in the part of some people today to look back at the fifties as if somehow that was a kind of a in a rut period and so forth but here's a man that his president came into office and already aware as we've all been aware for the last 50 years about government spending and his first budget wound up being about two billion dollars less than the last budget of his predecessor President Truman and five years later he had a budget that was still less than that five year, that budget of five years before of Truman's. So that's one thing that you think is a feather in his cap. Yes. Can you tell me now that you, you've been here and I know you have a sense of history because I understand you laid a wreath for Will, Millard Fillmore recently and whatever. Do you have a sense of what president you resemble or do you think about that? No I actually haven't. I really don't or haven't. Do you think about your place in history and what you want it to be, what you hope it will be? I know I see references to that every once in a while but no you're so busy with what's going on and what you're trying to get done that you know if I start thinking about history I have to start thinking that I won't be around. That's not fair. Mr. President I wanted to ask you does George Bush have the inside track as the next Republican president perhaps and do you think he's your best successor? Well I hate to comment on that. I've always believed that since they say that in this job you are the titular head of your party and I've always believed in letting the party make those decisions. I would rather comment on George's what he is right now as a vice president and I happen to think that he is the greatest vice president I think that I can ever remember. He has been more involved in all the doings of this administration than any vice president in the past and has been successful in the things that he's been called upon to do. So you wouldn't have to think take a week to think about what George Bush does for you. Okay. I wanted to ask you about something on prayer. I wonder do you pray yourself specifically for people in your administration or people that that you come in contact with and is there a certain time a day or a certain time of the night that you that you find yourself saying a prayer? Well there are a couple of times like that but that does not complete my schedule of prayer. I find myself turning in that direction frequently. Can you say any examples like say any examples? Well I don't I just can't believe that any of the other 38 men who've held this job could have ever held it unless they too look to prayer for help. And I think Lincoln said it best of all. Someone must have asked him that same question. And his answer was that he would be the most presumptuous block blockhead on this footstool meaning earth if he thought that for one day he could dispatch the duties that had come upon him since he came to this place. He said it in the first person. I'm saying it in the third. Without the aid and the enlightenment of someone wiser and stronger than all others. Yes I ask for help and I ask for help for others too that I believe I just was raised to believe very much in prayer and I believe in the processionary prayer. When I hear from so many people that tell me that in their church or their group of friends that they pray regularly for me I I think I'm benefiting from that. But do you pray at a certain time of day? You know how you teach children to get up in the morning and kneel down and pray. I just wondered do you have any old habits? No I have a few moments there at the end of the day when I think it's time to say thanks. And long about early morning when you wake up and the phone hasn't rung it isn't quite time to get up but I think it's a good time for some further conversation. Mr. President you got a chance to see your granddaughter Ashley. Yes. I wondered did you spend any time together alone? Yes. How was it? Well not alone. Both the families were together and we were all there together and oh she's very cute and very active. Did you bring her a gift? Yes. It was a stuffed animal turned out to be bigger than she was. What did she like it? What does she call you? Actually it was a I don't think it was a kind of like a Bapatha sound or something that she hadn't gotten around to being able to say grandpa. You know we all have families but because you a public office the estrangement in your family was played out in the public press and I was wondering as a father and a husband what advice you would give other families about mending fences and how you mended this fence. Why? Our problem was mainly one of distance and so this time when we eliminated the distance we eliminated the problem also we there was much love in the room and the two families together and whatever problems have been resolved. How do you deal with all those varied personalities? He is a father. Well I gave an answer once to someone with regard to my supposed failure with women in the world of politics and all and I said how could they how could anyone feel that I somehow was not having the attitude I should have when I have two very independent daughters. I must add something to do with that. At your press conference the other night you responded to some questions that sprung from the vigilante gunman and when I was going through some of your your folders in the office we noticed that that one of your biographers said that in the 1930s you had foiled an armed robbery yourself and I don't know if this incident is true but I have a copy of what is supposed to have happened but what happened according to the biographer is that a woman was being stuck up outside your window. Right below my second story window. Alright can you tell us what happened? Well I was half awake and I heard voices raised and I don't know why but lying there half awake I thought you know what if this were something and I was asked to testify what would I say was I thought it was a marital fight or some kind you know a couple having a quarrel and I said what would I say that I'd heard and I was saying to myself well I'm here to angry tone and then I heard this voice raised another octave and woman's voice saying take everything I've got but let me go and in about a second and a half I was at the window and they were right down there my apartment was on the second floor and he was standing there with a gun on her and she had a suitcase at her side turned out that she was a nurse returning to the hospital and evidently been out on a case or something the hospital was just down the street from my apartment and I've always had some guns around and that I went started for one on the mantle and then realized I didn't have any bullets and I wouldn't do any good up there in the dark and have an empty gun might have I was down there with him and so I just went back to the window and knowing that he couldn't see into the dark where I was and they were lighted by the streetlight down below I just told him that the drop it and get going he'd picked up the suitcase by that time I dropped it and get going or I said I gotta blow your head off I got a 45 up here and he turned around and pointed the gun up and realized he couldn't see me at all there in the dark but knew that I had to be able to see him and I yelled drop it and all of a sudden he dropped the suitcase and took off ran did you did you have a gun in your hand at the time no when I realized that it didn't I stopped halfway to the mantle and when I realized I didn't have any bullets I thought what's the use of stand up in the dark with an empty gun what would you have done if you know he had shot I don't know I'd never thought about that maybe I'd have fired a shot to let him know I really did have a gun if I'd had one with bullets in it but I knew that also to bluff with an empty gun up there was useless because I would have to to go down on the street there where I could actually do anything why then there would be a period when I was away from the window and nothing could be done but do you own a handgun now you've said you've often had them around oh yes I've always been something of a collector up at the ranch I've got a number of guns yeah but I must say just recently the last year or so I was in Iowa and for the first time saw again the young lady because then I put on a robe went downstairs when he ran away and walked over to the hospital with her and I must say she was very brave all she was complaining about was you know the size of him she said he wasn't even as big as I am so somebody had learned about that story and had found her now a married woman and they had her present at one of the appearances that I made down there and I for the first time got to meet her and that's good can I can I ask you this do you think that the Americans the American people's reaction is understandable to this vigilante gunman and do you think the right or wrong to have the attitudes they do about American justice and about the American judicial system which seems to prompt this well I think that we've have been through a period where whether it was an extension of liberalism or what it seemed that our justice system was more caring about the rights of the assailant the criminal and they were of the of the victims but I think there's been a change I think this comprehensive crime program that we've just gotten passed by Congress is evidence of that I think the fact that neighborhood groups have formed to kind of protect their neighborhoods and call what they neighborhood watch and so forth I think there is a different attitude now about that but but are they right to have been concerned I mean are they right to have this oh yes yes because crime was increasing but now for two years in a row yeah crime statistics have gone down the first time they've ever done this but crime was just running away with us and it still is to a certain extent even with the improvements we've made and I don't believe I'm not going to point a finger at the police it isn't a case of not apprehending the criminal about the courts well this is one of the things that I remember is as governor we started some programs of this kind with regard to judges there in the state where really most crime law enforcement takes place is in regard to state laws we found a judge who was himself surprised when we were able to point out to him he had never sent a person in his courtroom to prison and he as I say he was surprised and realized that his own he must have a kind of a inter-tenancy where he looked for the ways to avoid even in conviction sending someone to punishment and here was an entire record and we did some things at the state level there about getting all the facets of law enforcement together the people that are going to take charge of the criminals after they go to prison the judges the people in the courtroom the police and they all were amazed to find out that never had they ever bothered to try and understand the other fellow's problem the policeman had his problem he'd never gone on to what is the problem of the parole board and the judge and all of this and it made a difference there mr. president on another issue the abortion issue which raged during your recent election campaign being more specific I wonder what you would do if either of your daughters came to you and said they were going to have an abortion and it was not for reasons of help I have to tell you that I would do everything in the world that I could to be supportive of them and to help them and I would have to urge that they not resort to that because when again when I was governor legislation came up in California this was the first time I'd ever faced the issue and I didn't I realized I didn't have any position on it and when the author of the bill was very controversial sent word that he would amend the bill to anything that I felt I could sign I had a monkey on my back then and I probably did the most soul-searching and studying and interviewing and talking to others in the medical field and then clergy every kind of person and I came on my own to the conclusion that you are taking a human life and the only way we can justify that is in self-defense so therefore there are way reasons whereby I would justify it if a mother has a right to protect herself but on the other hand if the unborn child is a living human being we we cannot go on declaring it is right simply for whim or a matter of convenience to take that life and until and unless someone can prove that that is not a living entity then I feel that we have to oppose abortion on demand but but you said you would support your daughter now how about if she said I disagree with you then what would you do well of course in this instance they they're both of age and they're both married and I probably wouldn't have any authority over them my all I could do is be persuasive I wanted to ask you something you touched on earlier which was about your relations with women jinker Patrick I know you have long admired and you have said that you applauded her intelligence among other things that she feels that there's sexism in the State Department and in the cabinet and even here in the White House what is she right well she may have seen evidences of it that in her view that that is true and I can't say that everyone here in the executive branch has the same philosophy or the same viewpoint and things of that kind I saw any evidences of it I wouldn't stand for it I would cancel has she ever talked to you directly and said that there's an instance where you know I'm not being listened to or whatever she has never never has and I wasn't and I I simply read of the fact that she'd made those remarks in some address someplace but is it something you go back to her now I mean surely I understand you're going to talk to her later about a possible change in her position is it something that you would say to her now I've seen published reports what about this well no if I thought there was a reason sometime where she thought she was being unfairly treated by anyone because of that I would certainly want to know who it was and what the situation was so that could be corrected but I have a great admiration for her and think she has done the most remarkable job but the United Nations do you see her now I understand that she wants a new post do you see her working for you in some other position I'm certainly going to try and find a place that would be suitable and worthy of her because I would like to ever continue with the administration would you tell us what that might be no I'd rather not talk about it because anytime you talk about a job you're talking about something that someone else already holds and but as you've seen there is just a slight bit of moving around a slight administration many public officials in government and the Supreme Court serve to 65 70 75 with achievement I was wondering how you felt about mandatory retirement at 70 for the general population well I know what the reason is behind mandatory retirement and it's frankly it is one in which it's born out of a kind of a humanitarian idea in which they say you know true that people at certain ages are different than others and if you don't have a mandatory age limit then you are faced with the problem of going to some individual who actually is whether chronologically or not is too old for the for the job and having to pick that person out and say hey you can't do it anymore but maybe there's someone beside him doing the job just fine that that is the same age so this is one of the reasons for the mandatory age requirement I'm glad that it's been raised to 70 and recognizes the the change in longevity that we've had so I don't know whether I would ever suggest going out and and trying to force the private sector to have that if they don't want to have it or to cancel out some companies if they want to have it well I wanted to ask you following up on that obviously you've given aging people a very very good name but what is the worst thing about growing old what what do you find is the worst thing the hardest thing about growing old oh I suppose it's finding a few things that you suddenly discover you you can't do well anymore such as well like out there playing with the new puppy on the lawn the other day and I started off at what I thought was full speed and I used to run on a relay team and ran the quarter mile when I was young and then I realized I wasn't gonna run any quarter miles anymore but no I feel so good I suppose what I'd have to say is kind of an annoying little thing that you find yourself every once in a while you read of someone older and someone who's passed on and then you find yourself saying I wonder how many more and then you say no I don't want to think about that but you start counting so it's it's losing some of your friends and yes and also saying you know dare I dare dare I dare I think about how many more I may have I've I've got a rule of thumb that I passed on to many people older or younger than I am and that is anymore to simply say that getting old is something that happens 15 years from where you are whatever your age may be that's 15 years getting old I wanted to ask you a light a light question really during the campaign you had suggested that Bruce Springsteen sort of got at the heart of America as a entertainer can you tell us other entertainers that you think touch America touch what's going on touch the mood say something that the people are trying to say oh yes and without trying to pick out any right now let me go to the past for some some that really just were a part of Americana one was Irving Berlin in what way now tell us well look look at that list of hits look at his songs which had to do with with romance and I'll be loving you always and the things of that kind but also look at well God bless America he could and he in two wars he turned his talent in that direction you know he wrote yep yep yep Hank in World War one that was the great Broadway musical where all the money went to Army emergency relief and all the personnel were military well then he did this is the army for World War two and I was already serving in this I was in the service of second lieutenant at the time and the army sent me back to Warner Brothers which was the studio had been under contract to be in that picture which I made at a salary of a second lieutenant because again all the proceeds were going to which is what then mr. president which was what would your salary I think it was around 300 a month yeah but could I just tell you a little funny one about that he wanted Irving there was a flashback to yip yip yip I can't yep Hank and he wanted to be in the picture for that part of the flashback so there this little man stood in the World War one uniform in front of a tent and it called for him to be singing his own song of oh how I hate to get up in the morning you know the song that goes and someday I'll kill that other pup the one that gets the bugler up and spend the rest of my life in bed well he's singing that song he was not a singer and standing beside me on the set while it was being shot was a big husky grip I was working there and he nudged me and he says that the guy that wrote that song could hear him he'd roll over in his grave speaking of movies mr. president I was just curious in what movies you and Mrs. Reagan have seen recently and if there were any roles that you might have liked to have played well when I was making pictures I don't think about that much anymore but you know when I was making pictures yes I was I was in a running battle with Warner Brothers I was under contract there for 13 years and I was in a running battle all the time because they had me in the kind of like comedy drawing room comedy type pictures simply because that you know if you're in one that makes money your type cast from then on and they were successful pictures but I wanted to do some more outdoor pictures I wanted to play the arrow Flynn type of role and so forth fact I you could show your physique mr. president did you come at the Zorro roles Zorro or well when he played Custer now I had played the young Custer in the picture set of a trail when he played Jeb Stewart and then when they made the life of Custer and I'm I was a cavalry that was I was a cavalry officer I wanted to play Custer and I couldn't compete with him box office wise that I know he got the role but I remember once in an argument with Jack Warner about this I got furious talking to him about the roles and finally I blurted out to him I said if you ever do put me in a Western you'll make me the lawyer from the east we I was talking to Mayor Koch not long ago and he said he wanted Richard gear to play him in the movies when they shot mayor can you tell us even if it's totally outrageous like Richard gear playing their coach who should play Ronald Reagan in the Ronald Reagan story and who should play Nancy I'd like to play it who should play the days back and back in Illinois the man with the gun in his hand here at the window saying I gotta blow you away no I've you know that's impossible to think about that question has come up before and I have to say I've I've I've I've never been able to think of thinking a whole spectrum and say well well I guess I've just never been able to think of somebody making a picture of my life but no you can't think of someone that you would it's like we're supposed to always be the worst at picking out the best photo of ourselves and I couldn't do it tell me this we've I think the last time I was here I sort of asked you know what you saw yourself doing when you retire or when you leave this office I'm sure it won't be a retirement percent you certainly must have chopped all the wood on the ranch by now so what do you think you might do I mean Mrs. Reagan must have I understand she was not for a second term initially until you convinced her and and maybe you'll tell us how you convinced her of what her what her concerns were oh I think then what would you do I think she was worried as any wife would be that that maybe I go out as defeated and as against retiring voluntarily and so forth it there wasn't it wasn't a big a big difference at all when she realized that heard my reasons why I thought I had to what it was what were they give well with the job wasn't finished that we had gotten a good start I think we have I think we've turned the whole debate and government around from how much more to spend and how many more new programs down to how much to cut and both sides the argument is not whether to cut spending at all the argument now is how much to cut but the job just wasn't finished what's the most important thing for you to do between now and 1988 in your own mind the one thing you care about back in a solid economy and get us to the point that we if we haven't by then been able to eliminate the deficit spending at least we could see it point a definite dated which we could say this is where it will be eliminated and then set in motion a program for reducing the national debt and on the other the international scene to continue on what I think is well started and that is a program for peace and the goal is the ultimate elimination of nuclear weapons when you were or a circumstance when you might resign the office of presidency in midterm no unless something happened to me that I didn't think I could make it down to the office anymore which would be because I'm interested in your granddaughter is there a difference between having a grandchild and what a grandchild means to you and having a child is there is there oh yes I think there is I mean what do you look for the hopes for one versus the other what well I think the hopes are the same but I think being a grandchild is that wonderful feeling of that you don't you aren't responsible for all the corrections and all of that so you can just enjoy the grandchild with none of the responsibilities and said it's yes it's very nice I find myself thinking in terms of their future and what they're going to do and anything that I can do here I know that we're supposed to go I just I shouldn't do this and out there several rows out I shouldn't tell it isn't becoming coming from me but it's so set me up she resolved the age issue she was well six or seven rows back there in the crowd and she was holding on placard like so many people do in this one was homemade and the placard said he ain't old he's cute and all I know is that I was set up for a week ahead never got to meet her to thank her or anything for it but if she reads this she'll know that you'll have a lot of women writing it thank you you've been so gracious pleasure thank you very much I always I did that how do I do it down