 People, the final item of business is a member's business debate on motion 3242, in the name of Graham Simpson, on honouring emergency workers. The debate will be concluded without any questions being put, as ever, if a member wishes to speak in the debate. I'll ask them to press the request to speak buttons now as soon as possible. I call on Graham Simpson to open the debate for around seven minutes, Mr Simpson. Thank you, Presiding Officer. Can I start by thanking all the members from across Llany Britle police historical society, asking me to look at two cases in which he believed officers had been overlooked for posthumous awards, allowing me a bit of time to go over the cases in chronological order. The first involved constable George Taylor, on 30 November 1976, Robert Moan a Thomas McCulloch yn ystafell ar y drafodd y Cymru. Fy gydag, mae'n gweithio'r newid a maes ydw i, a mae'n gweithio'r newid yn ystafell. A llwyfodd, Robert McCallan yn cael ei wneud yn cael y gynnig, a mae'n ddod o'r amser o'r maes yng Nghymru, y Cyfrinol Cymru a'r Constable Taylor. Fy gydag, mae'n gweithio'r newid yn Larkhall yn y 5th ddyddol. Fy gydag, mae'n gweithio'r newid yn Larkhall yn ystafell. Mae'n ddod o'r amser i ddod o'r amser o'r cysbyt yn Larkhall. Mae'n gweithio'r newid yn hir yw, ac mae'n gweithio'r newid yn Larkhall yn Ystafell a'r Cyfrinol Cymru. Mae'n gweithio'r newid yn Larkhall yn 1984. Mae'n gweithio'r newid yn ystafell ac mae'n gweithio'r newid. Mae Lleith Gwyl iawn yn Larkhall yn ystafell, yn 1974, a chyfnodd y Gwyl iawn i'n gweithio'r Lleith Gwyl iawn i'r Gwyl iawn i'r Lleith Gwyl iawn. The Queen's Gallantry Medal ended the anomaly where the order of the British Empire for gallantry was awarded for lesser acts of bravery than the George Medal but took presidents over it. The Queen's Gallantry Medal is awarded for exemplary acts of bravery by civilians and members of the armed forces where purely military honours were not normally granted. It's been awarded posthumously since November 1977. In December 2020, I wrote to Home Secretary Priti Patel suggesting that the Queen's Gallantry Medal would be appropriate in the cases that I've outlined. Since then, I've been passed around various ministers, Chloe Smith, Alistair Jack and more recently, the Cabinet Office Minister, Lord Tru, and there have been ministerial discussions about it. The upshot is that a case won't be considered if it's more than five years since the event occurred. We do know, however, that in the case of Constable Taylor, he was nominated for an award shortly after his death. There was a report from Chief Superintendent John Lauder to Chief Constable Patrick Hamill nominating individuals for awards dated 28 March 1977. The Chief Superintendent recommended Constable Taylor for a Queen's Bravery Award, a letter dated 29 April 1977 from Chief Constable Hamill to the Secretary of State for Scotland at the time, Bruce Millan, endorsed Constable Taylor's nomination. Following that letter to the Secretary of State, there's no further record of Constable Taylor's nomination. Every English officer involved in that case subsequently received their awards. The Scottish officers did not. I've been in touch with Chief Constable Ian Livingstone. He's recommended that the sacrifice of both men and wants to honour them with the highest accolade that he can, the Chief Constable's bravery commendation, and he's to be commended himself for doing that. So, there's no UK award for these brave men and other officers like them, which brings me to the idea of a brand new award, which could fill the gap. It seems to me that if any member of the emergency services loses their lives in the line of duty, their families should get something that says the nation values and thanks them. If a member of the armed forces is killed on operations or as a result of terrorism, their next of kin receive the Elizabeth Cross as a mark of national recognition for their loss. Quite right too. I believe there should be something similar for members of our emergency services. The Police Federation of England and Wales, the Police Superintendent's Association and the Prison Officers Association have all arrived at the same conclusion. I've written to the committee on the grant of honours, decorations and medals who make a recommendation to the Queen and it would be great if the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government could get behind this. This would be for George Taylor, William Ross Hunt, Yvonne Fletcher and many others in the Police, Fire Service, Ambulance Service, Coast Guards and I would say Mountain Rescue too. Heroes, all of them, brave to the call. Thank you very much Mr Simpson. I now move to the open debate and I call firstly Gillian Martin to be followed by Pauline McNeill for around four minutes. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I'm grateful to be able to speak in today's debate and I want to thank Graham Simpson for lodging a motion which I hope gives us all the opportunity to recognise the efforts of the emergency services. In my case, particularly in the north-east, I know that the substance of Graham Simpson's speech is about the particular lives of the officers that he's mentioned. Mr Simpson's outline today exemplifies not only the bravery of our officers but the potential sacrifice that they and their families make and it's only right that we recognise that. I want to talk about what our emergency services do to keep us all safe in the north-east during the recent storms, which caused so much damage and put so many people at risk in the north-east. During the storms Arwen and Malick, emergency services and workers were in situations that were considerably more dangerous than anyone had anticipated, particularly in storm Arwen. The conditions that they had to work in meant that they were at considerable risk themselves when all of us were told to stay safely indoors. I still remember driving home as the storm began to hit the north-east from a constituency meeting in a farm where the lights were flickering and the windows were shaking throughout. On the way home I realised what was approaching to be a very damaging time for the north-east and how unsafe it was to be out in the storm. On that Friday afternoon driving home in the road between Old Meldrow and Methwick, huge tree branches were already starting to fly past the windscreen and that was just the start. Overnight, fully matured trees were down, blocking roads and bringing down power cables and our colleagues in the place and fire services were mobilised immediately, responding to road blockages, falling power lines, live power lines and coordinating the emergency response in really quite dangerous conditions. Sadly our police and ambulance crews also had to respond to one fatality due to a falling tree that crashed into the car of a young man in Haton Fentree road at the height of storm Arwen and another during storm Malick in Aberdeen City, but it is an absolute miracle that none of them were injured in doing so. The fact that there were no subsequent fatalities either in any of our emergency workers or in any of our civilians was remarkable given the extent of the hazards that the storm presented and this is a no small part to the effort of those emergency services in terms of their messaging, their immediate response and indeed their bravery to the work that they were involved with in subsequent days removing debris and closing off areas where trees were still at risk of falling as I say there were many live power lines. The damage caused by storm Arwen was enormous given the particularly unusual wind direction and its intensity and Superintendent Murray Main said that the magnitude of the event had been both significant and unprecedented. Superintendent Main is to retire shortly and I thank everyone who signed my parliamentary motion recognising his years of service and in particular his leadership during those recent storms. Presiding Officer, it has always been the case that our emergency workers will go where the rest of us can't and shouldn't, but they face abuse, they face violence and danger every day and I commend the bravery of the officers mentioned in Graham Simpson's speech in motion and support his calls for posthumance recognition. Indeed there is a north-east element to one of the officers that he has mentioned, the case of George Taylor. The man who killed George Taylor was incarcerated in Peterhead prison and was deemed to be one of the most dangerous prisoners ever to be incarcerated in the old prison there. I support Graham Simpson's call for posthumance recognition of our officers. Our emergency workers always deserve our gratitude but in the past few years more than ever and I once again thank Mr Simpson for allowing us time to put our thanks on record today. Ms Martin and I call on Paulie McNeill, who will be followed by Russell Finlay, again around four minutes please. Thank you Presiding Officer and thank you to Graham Simpson for a really excellent motion and a really important subject. I have a great deal of respect for emergency workers. In fact my husband Joe was a police officer when I first met him working in CID and I confess that my heart was in my mouth if he was called out to an incident and he went out with his handcuffs and his baton not knowing when he would come back. I have some understanding of that feeling. I also represented ambulance workers without for Gmb Scotland for a while now. I was genuinely shocked at the level of risk that ambulance workers take on a day-to-day basis so we can never be thankful enough for the risks that emergency workers take. In the pandemic I felt that police officers did not get the full recognition that they deserve while I think is day-to-day bravery of what they did being on the front line when the Covid virus was at its height. A number of police officers subjected to assaults every year is rising and the latest figures for Police Scotland indicate that police officers and police staff were victims of assaults numbered over 3,000 each year over the last five years. As we have heard, the murders of Constable George Taylor and Detective Sergeant William Roth Hunt, whilst in duty, are shocking reminders of what the police can face, simply doing their job. I commend the work of Lancashire Police Historical Society and the work of Graham Simpson in leading the campaign for a posthumous bravery award for those two officers. Campaigners believe that both Constable George Taylor and Detective Sergeant William Roth Hunt are intended to a variety of honours, including the George Medal, the Queen's Gallantry Medal. I understand that the campaign is supported by Chief Constable Ian Limsing, who has backed families and offered a Chief Constable's bravery commendation. I also understand that a UK Government spokesperson has said that the rules on posthumous gallantry awards stipulate that the events must have taken place in the last five years. That means that it is regrettable that it is not possible for either to be formally recognised. I do not really think that that is good enough. It is clear that the sacrifice of all officers past and present who die in the line of duty must be recognised no matter when their death took place. I believe that the pandemic woke us up to this incredible bravery. I agree with the motion that we need a new award for police officers, firefighters, paramedics and prison officers killed in service. While nothing can ever truly make up for lost life, at the very least, an emergency services medal should be received by the immediate family of those who die in the execution of their duties to acknowledge their sacrifice. I apologise to the chamber that I have to be across party group this evening. I will not be able to stay for the minister summing up, but I did want to say that I fully supported Graham Simpson in his work. Thank you very much indeed, Mr McNeill. I now call on Russell Finlay again for around four minutes, Mr Finlay. Thank you very much. I would like to begin by crediting Graham Simpson for bringing this extremely important subject to the chamber and also welcoming Adrian Hunt and George Barnsley here today. I would like to begin by declaring interest in that my wife is a serving police officer. While I am standing here talking, she is out there protecting people and putting herself in danger. As politicians, the biggest risks that we face is being heckled from the other side or tripping up over our own words. As police officers, you face real dangers every single day and real unpredictability every single day. Just last week, I received an email from an officer who said, Put yourself in our shoes day in, day out, I find myself more often than not using the phrase there but by the grace of God when it comes to how officers are not seriously injured on a more frequent basis. Now he blames a lack of funding and he talks about the need for more tasers, which is a whole other debate, but he adds it will take one of my colleagues to be killed before fingers begin to be pointed. Now I get that and I couldn't agree more. It is the welfare of frontline officers that matters and indeed all emergency service workers. Sometimes we think the main dangers from violence on our streets but many are exposed to horrific incidents that can cause severe mental health problems. At the end of 2019 and the beginning of 2020, there were a series of reports on the media of police Scotland officers taking their own lives. There were four over four months up until January 2020 and at least eight apparent suicides in recent years. The thing is we don't know how many there actually were and why is that because according to a freedom of information request made to Police Scotland revealed no record is even kept. I then asked the Crown Office about how many of these tragic deaths of police officers were subject to fatal accident inquiries and to my great shock the answer was none. So officers are dying and no one is taking the time or the interest to find out why. Now we know suicide is complex but surely fatal accident inquiries should be an absolute given. How can we hope to prevent further suicides if we cannot learn from those that have occurred? I ask, do we really take the issue of police welfare as seriously as is sometimes made out? Now Deputy Presiding Officer, as I've said already we owe not just police officers but all emergency service workers a huge debt of gratitude. Graham Simpson has very diligently spotted a gap and he's doing something about it and I think that speaks to the power of what us as individual MSPs can do. I look forward to seeing what the committee on the grant of honours, decorations and medals says to him and I agree that it would be helpful if the Parliament and indeed the Scottish Government could support the aims of his campaign. But let's also make sure that the mental welfare of all officers is paramount. Thank you. Thank you very much indeed Mr Finlay. I now call on Keith Brown to respond to the debate Cabinet Secretary for around seven minutes. Thank you Presiding Officer and thank you as well to Graham Simpson for bringing his motion to the Parliament and the members that have made contributions to the debate. First of all, the motion asks us to recognise the campaign led by the Lanarkshire Police Historical Society for officers murdered in the line of duty to receive posthumous UK bravery awards. It specifically mentions, as Graham Simpson has done, Constable George Taylor and Detective William Ross Hunt of the former Strathclyde police force who sadly lost their lives in the course of duty. Today we have heard cross-party support to recognise the campaign and we already know that it has the full support of the Scottish Police Federation, which represents front-line officers. I just want to say one word to Graham Simpson, if I could, about just keeping on going in relation to RSI when I first was elected to the Parliament that was involved in a campaign to have those who were involved in the Arctic convoys recognised with an honour and a medal. Resisted fiercely by the successive Governments over a number of years, many of those were civilians, not military personnel as you know. Eventually we won that campaign, took a long time and had the privilege of handing over some of those medals to some of the veterans. Maybe that's the precedent that he wants to use in the campaign that he's involved in when talking to the UK Government. That was much more than five years ago and yet there was an exception made for it. It does seem incomprehensible to me that someone like Yvonne Fletcher has never received an award. I just don't know how that works. It's only right that members and wider society pay respect to such police officers and that we remember them and their loved ones, some of whom are here today, as has been mentioned, who have suffered that loss. The debate has been valuable in demonstrating that and we would support consideration of a posthumous UK bravery award. All UK honours and medals, as has been mentioned, are in the personal gift of the Queen. Official recognition is developed on behalf of the UK as a whole and is not directly within the gift of the Scottish Government. Just to go back to the point about tenacity, I also had a case that came to my constituency who had seven medals for his time in the military, the last one of which arrived at his post in Germany the day that he left. It was then lost and the trouble that he went through to get that medal replaced, which was extremely important to him, was incredible. Eventually, it was Mark Francois, who was a minister at the time, who agreed it. Even after he agreed it, the civil servant said, no, we don't do that. I had to go back and get the minister to say, can you tell us civil servants? I know that those things are sometimes difficult, but that persistence and tenacity, which Graham Simpson has shown, I think, can bear fruit. As we have heard, the chief constable has written to both families of Constable George Taylor and Detective William Ross Hunt to offer them the highest award that he can offer, the chief constable's bravery award, without prejudice to any consideration of any national honour. It's also right that we look beyond, which has dominated the debate to some extent, police officers to others, as Gillian Martin mentioned, who risked their life while on public duty. We've recognised the important role of other emergency workers and we've heard the call for a new UK award for all emergency workers to lose their life while serving the public, so we would also support full consideration of this wider proposal. It's important that we recognise and honour, of course, the police officers, the staff and the other emergency service workers, who show their continued commitment to support the public on a daily basis. Every day, emergency service workers across Scotland put themselves in harm's way as part of their duties and often go above and beyond what's expected of them, and the hard work, dedication and bravery has helped to make Scotland a stronger, safer and more secure country. I thank the cabinet secretary for taking the intervention. I welcome his words and his advice to keep going. I should stress that it's not my campaign, I'm involved in it, but there are many others as well. Is the cabinet secretary, given that he's expressed support for it, is he prepared to write to the UK Government expressing the support of the Scottish Government? That question was asked earlier on. You'll remember I'll be aware that I've twice expressed explicitly support for the campaign, and I'll say more on that further down. If he would give me the chance to take under some advice about the protocols in relation to that, then I'm happy to come back to him on that specific matter. What I've said in terms of support for the campaign is now on the public record. He can see that from what I've said, and that will be in the report from Parliament. It is important that we recognise those individuals who work in emergency services and the dedication and bravery that they've shown. We are committed to ensuring that we continue to protect their emergency service workforce. It's simply not acceptable that they should be attacked. It just has always puzzled me, and that's putting it lightly, why people attack, for example, fire crews who go out to protect people life and property and then get attacked by people or abused and sometimes even risk losing their life while going about their daily duty, things thrown on to vehicles and so on. I would speak for all of us when we say that we will not tolerate any attacks on the police or other emergency service workers. Nobody in any event should face abuse or violence while staying at their work, so we fully support our police, prosecutors and the courts in dealing with people who offend against any emergency workers, and courts have already got extensive powers recently reinforced to deal robustly with those who carry out such appalling behaviour. In Scotland, a life sentence is mandatory for murder and is available to the court as a sentencing option for anyone convicted of culpable homicide. It is, of course, for the independent court to decide the sentence in individual cases, and in doing so, the court will take into account the fact that a victim is or may be an emergency worker and the fact that they accused of committing a crime when the culpable homicide occurred in reaching their sentencing decision. Again, the Scottish Government supports the chief constable's pledge, and he has expressed his support in relation to what has been asked to make representations at the UK level. That outlines his commitment to reduce the impact of violence on the police workforce, to improve safety for officers and staff and to provide appropriate support to the victims of any attacks that occur. The Scottish Government has also introduced restitution orders, a financial penalty that can be imposed on offenders convicted of assault on police, sending a further signal that such behaviour is unacceptable, and it is our intention that we have made efforts to make sure that those monies, when they come in, are used in support of the police against whom those attacks have been made. I again, just to make it clear, support the intention to honour emergency workers. Going forward, the Scottish Government again supports calls by Graham Simpson for consideration of poshumist awards for emergency workers who lose their life also on duty serving the public.