 Rhawer that I am y gallu'n hyn, mae'n daith i'r cyfrydd o'r cyframe yn hynny. Fe yw'n meddwl am y bydd ythafodol cly運 yn meddwl ar y cyfrifysgottol. Mae'n hyn yn cyfrifysgotor Jeff Harvey, ymwneud yn y cysylwyr ar y cysylltu. Fe oedd y bydd yn wedi eu cynllun o'n cyfrifysgotor, yn ddwy'r chesyllif ac yn ymryddedig. Center Apologes, Hiysochus actually a delegate at COP in the United Arab Emirates. I think that we're very lucky to have an usual chair who is so involved in the issues we deal with at an international level. For the information of members of the public, to achieve the Council's targets on climate change and its environmental commitments. If I could ask those joining remotely to ensure their camera and microphone remain off unless they are addressing the committee. For those in the room, please ensure your microphone is close to you when you speak. As I said earlier my name is Councilor Jeff Harvey a'n symptomsau ond nifer, mae'n fawr yn ôl, ac mae'n myfyddu hwn o'r bynnag, yn yr ystod, i'w ddechrau Dr Martin Cohn. Yn rydych chi, mae'n fawr, os ydw ydych chi'n gweld y dズddanc hynny, i'w ddweud yma, i'w ddweud y D ру, o'r ddweud. Mae gweithio, drwy'r byd, mae'n dda'u sylfaen yma ein rydw i'w ddweud yw мо Llywodraeth Cachsden, yn yr hynny. Gwyneth agII arall yn fy fите, Pw nif studiaeth yma i'r wirio swydd, mae'r cynydd dotwnau ar zerfynu i parnef. Fel ynghylch hefyd ymateb, mae'r gwneud hynny yn fée ym bullied plant i'w cynydd tw gridol. Felly mae'n company adlit mewn IP Manl yn dwe uchiff dryfynu yn y verk 냄새. Nid ydych telefon nhw wedi'n rhoi, struggleno ladad li, drwy fynd i'ch f camera esos fraction. Yn charges fe allan hynny am 180 mker buses yn Diumgell Всё Mrel Sab, ar brunt gael'i gallu, mae'n profi wedi amneddwyei yn y bêl. bookessio ddiwan fry prif. Hi, afternoon, everyone, councillor Henry Batchard, I'm the Cabinet Member for Environmental Services. So, not planning on actually taking part, but here as called upon. Thank you. We have a number of officers with us today, Rebecca Weymes Wood, Paula Gibbons, Lawrence Dermanry Hodden, running the meeting that I think we've got as well taking notes. mae'n gweithio i'r cornydd Matthew Exton ac yma'r cyfnod yn ffwrdd o'r ddechrau. Mae'n ddweud y gallwn yn ysgrifennu. Rwy'n defnyddio, ond mae'n ddweud o'r ddechrau. Rwy'n ddweud, mae'n ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud. Mae'n ddweud o'r ddweud. Rydw i'n ddweud yma'n ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud? Eli Haens. Rydw i'n debyd yma'n ddweud o'r ddweud o'r hypnod yn ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud o'r hypnod. Rydw i'n ddweud o'r ddweud o'r gyfanbau. Rydw i'n ddweud o'r ddweud o'r gyfan combiningydd o'r ddweud o'r ddweud o'r gyfan, dyna'r gyfer Yrfaith Llyfríu, dyna ddweud o'r drosbu Llyfrgell newydd o'r llai yn Llyfrgell, conference last Tuesday at Coblin Village Hall. I wasn't able to be there myself because I was at the Auditon Governance Committee, which clashed with that, but I did really wish that I hadn't had to be at the Auditon Governance because it sounded as though the conference was a huge success and would have arguably would have been more interesting than the Auditon Governance, but I can't say that because I think both have their merits, but I wonder at Alla, would you like to give us a sort of brief synopsis of the day and the events and the outcomes? Yeah, absolutely, thank you very much. Yeah, so the conference was chaired by Councillor Brian Mill and featured five guest speakers. We had Chris Park in from Coventure County Council who spoke on the county's work to develop an energy strategy that ensures communities benefit from the energy transition and Malcolm Byrd of Steepham Ward and Parish Council shared their journey to access funding and instal a community electric vehicle charger using our grants and about the chargers usage patterns and what that indicated about EV uptake in the area. Alison Giles of Girt and Parish Council described the creation of their local nature recovery plan for the village and Helen Dye spoke on the natural Cambridge share and the process of them making a local nature recovery strategy for Cambridge share and Peterborough and some funding available for grassroots nature recovery projects and then finally John Connell of Greater Cambridge shared planning explained the mechanics of the opportunities presented by the new biodiversity net gain duty. So the conference was well attended. I think we had about 70 people there at our count and yeah we're particularly great for the backing of the event by councillor so thank you very much to everyone who's able to attend and then we had 10 parish councils represented at the event including Hasting and Imprinton, Cotin, Barrington, Swayzee, Gamlingey, Iquiton and Oakington and Westwick and then we also joined by representatives from a number of our district's climate action groups including Cambridge Carbon Footprint, Cambridge Shear Climate Emergency and the Hasingville and the Halton Eco group. Other attendees also included SEDC officers, officers from Huntingtonshire District Council and the County Council and there were just a lot of the public there who weren't necessarily affiliated with our group. Yeah so overall early feedback is suggesting that the strengths of the event were in the quality of the speakers and the discussions that those speakers prompted and participants are reporting that they were encouraged and inspired by volunteer led grassroots projects sharing their successes and learnings. Besides some practical issues with lighting and sound and participants also suggest that in the future a breakout activity or some kind of workshop might help to harness the enthusiasm and the expertise that is in the room to stimulate further action and then officers will seconded this. We hope to build on the success of this year's event by holding another longer conference event next year which will allow us to include a workshop or a kind of breakout activity as well as a supplementary evening or weekend event to ensure that all those who wish to participate can because obviously this was during a weekday in the morning so we're also keen to broaden the demographic reach of the event and bring together a wider range of voices. Yeah I'd just like to extend a special thanks to Councillor Milne who's not here but thank you very much for him sharing the event and facilitating Q&As and also to Cotton and Parish Council who helped out a lot in the run-up and on the day. Thanks. Thank you very much Rola. I must say although I wasn't able to go to this particular event I've attended other similar events and I'm always sort of amazed well not amazed but just really gratified the level of grassroots interest that we were so lucky to enjoy in South Cams and really feeling that support for everything we're doing and I think we'd join the other councillors, my vice-chair and Peter Haley's not here at the moment, just thank the officers for organising what seems to have been such a successful day and sorry yes Councillor Fane. Thank you chair like you I wasn't able to be there for similar reasons. I noticed that it was held to time with the COP28. I think that was a very useful report but I wonder whether we could have something on the website to report or circulate to highlight some of the comments made by the speakers. I find that very helpful. I don't see anything on the website at the moment. We've got the announcements on the website but not the outcomes are very helpful. Absolutely, we're still collating feedback responses coming in so some quotes and yeah a bit more than that would be great. Thank you. Thank you. Once again, congratulations a fantastic day it seems. Next item on the agenda, apologies for absence, do we have any I think we probably do? Thank you chair. Democratic Services received two apologies today from Councillor Pipp Haley and Councillor Natalie Warren Green. Councillor Fane has kindly stepped in and substituted today. Thank you very much. Declarations of interest, do any members have any interests to declare in relation to any of the business on the agenda today? Obviously if an interest doesn't come apparent later on in the meeting you can always flag that at the time. I think we have any decorations of interest so minutes of the previous meetings is our next agenda item. Do we have the minutes from the meeting on the 12th of October after approval today? So do any members wish to make any amendments to these minutes? We can take that as having approved the minutes by affirmation. Yeah committee therefore agrees to approve the minutes of the meeting held on the 12th of October 2023 as a correct record. So agenda item four is the air quality update report. We have a number of recommendations laid out for us in the report but before we discuss these I'd like to invite Matthew to present the report to us. Thank you Councillor Harvey. I've produced a couple of slides just to make it a bit more user-friendly for you so there would be one second. So yes thank you for the opportunity to give this air quality update. There's a little quite a few bits to update you on. I would not discuss the air quality here for about a year and a half so there's a fair bit so I will try and go through it as quickly as I can. So just a quick reminder as to why we're here so obviously we have statutory duties around air quality often known as the local air quality management regime so LAQM. They're set out in the Environment Act 1995 and we've produced a yearly report presenting the results of our monitoring as known as the annual status report. I'm happy to confirm that they have approved the 2023 report which is available on our website and it's available as appendix B to this report. As part of that annual report we have to compare our monitoring results to national objectives. All objectives were met in 2022 which is the reporting year for the 2023 report and that means that we currently don't have any AQMAs which air quality management areas they're special areas where objectives are potentially going to be failed. We did have one along the AQM team which was revoked in I believe it was January 2021 and there is now an expectation that local authorities without any AQMAs would have an air quality strategy and there's a sort of a change of focus from DEFRA from simply meeting targets to sort of improvement of air quality. Why do we want to improve air quality? Well it's a nice infogram here from UK HSA, a health security agency, sort of outlines a number of the conditions that are linked to high levels of air pollution and as well as the conditions listed up there that we've probably more well like asthma and lung conditions and there's emerging evidence of links with Alzheimer's and dementia and there's been a number of reports recently linking air pollution to a number of different conditions such as postnatal depression, antibiotic resistance it was linked to a higher prevalence of Covid at the time of the pandemic as well so yes it's a wide range of conditions that it can potentially exacerbate or cause. And it's estimated that long-term exposure to air pollution in the UK has an annual effect equivalent to 28,000 to 36,000 deaths which is pretty, pretty high stand. Yeah incredible numbers so it's really important that we take action and also to note that the committee for the medical effects on air pollution and they have now confirmed that there's no safe level of PM 2.5 so particulate matter 2.5 microns in size so there's no safe level so anything we can do to reduce levels will help to reduce those conditions up on that. So what do we do? So we have a strategy in place already and one element of that strategy is monitoring and so we monitor throughout South Camps District so we have a number of diffusion tubes I've got a little diffusion tube here so these are very small and simple devices but they're really really good for measuring nitrogen dioxide and they're really good for understanding the long-term trends associated with with traffic pollution and nitrogen dioxide is mostly linked to pollution from vehicles especially diesel vehicles. So we have about 35 of those I think yeah and so we have three continuous monitors these are the very expensive monitors that are authorised by DEFRA and they go on to the national websites that help to the national modelling and we've currently got them in Impington, Haarston and North Stowe and so one of the things to note in the report was we've moved a couple of our monitors or we've installed new monitors and we're decommissioning some of the older monitors and so we've decommissioned the ones in Orchard Park and Gerton and we're refocusing on the areas of growth which is why we've got one in North Stowe and areas that haven't been monitored previously so that's why we've got one in Haarston and we're aware that the Orchard Park one was installed to monitor the improvement works to the A14 and there was a requirement for that to be in place for at least three years after those works had completed and we understand that three years has now passed and if there were any sort of ongoing concerns about the Orchard Park area we will retain some diffusion tubes in that area and we also have the continuous monitor in Impington which is adjacent to the A14 a couple of kilometres along the A14 so we still have quite a comprehensive understanding of that area and then obviously we have our Zephyr sensors so that's one of the sensors on the on the photograph there on the presentation so these monitor a number of pollutants particulate matter and nitrogen dioxide and a number of others such as ozone and nitrogen oxide so these are really good because they give you instant data but we can also move them quite quickly we can just mount them on a lamppost like that they run from the solar power so they're really good and we've done a number of studies at schools and to help raise the awareness of impacts of pollution around schools obviously children are particularly vulnerable to the pollution as their lungs are still growing so that's why we've done these studies and so a little bit more about the Zephyr school studies and so we've looked at six schools and Cambrorn, Haarston, Hysden, Milton, Northstone, Swaversea and at all locations the measurements we we've got were well below the national air quality objectives and in about four of the six schools they were below the who guideline values which we'll go on to discuss a little bit more later for nitrogen dioxide and we've we also were able to determine that levels of nitrogen dioxide were generally higher during the term time than they were to the school holiday periods but as you would expect they will be busier busier more cars during the term time and that was obviously linked to a higher levels of nitrogen dioxide and that link wasn't as strong with the pm 2.5 particularly a matter as that tends to be driven by non-traffic sources so burning regional and domestic events sorry that's an international event sorry so um yeah so traffic does contribute to pm 2.5 but not as strongly as the nitrogen dioxide however um we weren't able to conclusively say that levels were higher during the school drop-off and pick-off pick-up times and I'm going to show you a graph next so this is 24 hours of data from the Zephyr showing levels of nitrogen dioxide and what you would expect to see is a pick-up and drop-off peaks of pollution but unfortunately because nitrogen dioxide is quite strongly influenced by UV and so light breaks down the NO2 and so you don't necessarily get high levels of NO2 when you've got the high levels of traffic so you can actually see when the sun's up between about 9.30 and 5 on that first day and about 8 and 7 or 6 on the second day there's not really any levels of nitrogen dioxide so it's very difficult to draw sort of very short-term conclusions so if I'm moving on to the next thing so we've been asked to look at using public space protection orders to try and prevent vehicle idling outside of schools um so um so the first thing to note is because of what I've just discussed it's very difficult evidencing directly the vehicle idling to any higher levels of pollution although we we do we do know that the idling cars will be producing pollution it's very difficult to actually evidence that with the monitoring and with the equipment um public space protection orders can be very quite administratively difficult to set up um and there are also um there are existing powers under the road traffic vehicle emissions fixed penalty england regulations 2002 which i'm sure you're all very familiar with um so you can actually use those um without undertaking any sort of authorizations and you just have to have an authorized officer and they're able to um issue fixed penalty notices of 20 pounds to vehicle to idling vehicles however other authorities have found the enforcement of any kind is quite difficult and the best packed practice from around the uk appears to be um positive engagement with the communities and education is more effective than um than the the sort of stick approach of vines and there's there's a few examples there of of catch lines and posters from other other authorities to undertake promotional positive engagement work and so one of the uh i think recommendations is that we don't actively undertake enforcement that we put together a a program for positive engagement with starting with schools and other other local organizations and i think we will try and bring you back a sort of more comprehensive plan on that in the spring and so that's one of your recommendations that you endorse that um and then moving on to the other sort of main topic that we got to cover today so um a greater cambridge air quality strategy so um yes so a greater cambridge air quality strategy between south cambs and cambridge city so it would have the bonus of aligning with the the emerging local plan and the joint cambridge um greater cambridge planning service and it would make it much easier to enforce anything around planning and it's also allows for better and smooth partnership working on cross cross boundary infrastructure products so so many of the infrastructure projects are are cross boundary all of the busways, the parking rides and the camborn to cambridge project that's being worked on at the moment and so there's a lot of cross boundary on the infrastructure projects and and if we're both aligned on our air quality strategy it will help them on on the support for those projects and it also helps streamlining with other key stakeholders such as the council and public health departments the greater cambridge partnership and the combined authority um and and it also has the potential for allowing for wider more impactful awareness raising campaigns and so as it I believe we know in the report um cambridge city council have already endorsed a uh working towards a joint air quality strategy um any strategy would be bought before this committee before being um formally adopted um and we we hope to work work towards that quite quickly and bring that back to you in again in the spring as I mentioned earlier we already do have a strategy um and we're not we're not planning on reinventing the wheel it's very much an improvement and a continuation of the existing strategy and so you'll see uh the moment our existing strategy has three focused actions um and the draft strategy that we're we're trying to work up with cambridge city at the moment has four key priorities so as you can see they they are a lot three of them align quite well with the existing um actions so policies community engagement monitoring and so they're the only newer key priority is for um looking at infrastructure for more details um and so yes so one of the recommendations is to to uh for us to go ahead with uh moving ahead with with working on that joint air quality strategy and the out there recommendation is that we work towards um adopting world health organisation air quality guidelines as an aspiration to work towards um so as mentioned earlier we are already achieving all of the um uk limits um there is a an annual mean for pm 2.5 of of 10 micrograms but that's only going to come in um by 2040 and the world health organisation are recommending a value of five so that's half of what um the national government are looking to achieve in another 17 years time and we know that five micrograms per meter cubed for particular matter is going to be a very difficult target um but we want to be ambitious we want to have improved health um and we don't want to have a slide in um in the air quality we don't want it to get worse um we all know that there's obviously significant growth in the area and if we don't have um if we don't have a target to work towards if we haven't got anything aligned with the um the local plan then we've got nothing to um to to get the developers to do the right things in terms of air quality um and obviously we don't want air quality to start sliding and getting worse rather than improving as it should do so we want to be ambitious um the air quality strategy may have some interim targets because we've recognised that the the some of the targets might be difficult to achieve in the five-year period that this air quality strategy is is um aimed for um but yeah but we we want to be ambitious I think is the main point there um and that is your the sort of the last recommendation I believe is that you endorse um the the use of um the World Health Organization guidelines and that I will believe that's it and I will leave it there and um yeah okay thank you Matthew um or not only for that um informative presentation but also the the depth and breadth of the report that we've had in the um agenda papers which um there's so much data and so much of interest in there um thank you also I think I believe you're fairly recent um to South Council and uh glad to see you fit the ground running with a fantastic report so thank you very much um members do we have obviously we've already got one um questions of clarification for Matthew and his colleagues thank you chair and thank you Matthew for the presentation when you talk about continuous monitoring what does that mean in practice I'm sure there's not some poor soul sitting staring at the screen 24 hours a day how often is the data examined yeah thank you Councillor Samford good question um so the data is collected continuously um so the the the DEFRA continuous monitors that we have in three locations they are they take a reading every hour um and that is reported back to us and we can look it up online um at any time so if we have a particular concern about something or we we've noticed at a particular event that we might uh might won't think we might have a particular interest in we can go and look at that data at any time and and then yeah we get yearly reports so that we can um we can collate it and and look at it and as a as an annual objective um annual mean objective um but yes we're not we're not sitting there staring at it all the time but yeah it's being collected um on an hourly basis and the ZEPFA sensors they are collecting data I believe it's every 15 seconds they take a tiny sample and then that can be averaged we can look at that data is it as an every 15 second or we can average out to be looking at it on a 15 minute interval an hourly I tend to look at it an hourly interval so that it lines up with the um with the continuous monitors and the the only real drawback of the ZEPFA monitors is that they're not DEFRA approved and so that we can't use them for our our annual reporting however I think I included a graph in the in the report um which shows that actually the ZEPFA data is is very closely aligned to what we're getting from the from the other um continuous monitors that are are DEFRA approved and so we do have high confidence that they are they are telling us accurate information so hopefully it answers your question yes thank you yes councilor Faye actually my question chair related to that graph which I think is the one at the end of appendix A it seems to show some one or two remark of the high levels particularly at Haarston but what I'm not quite clear about is it shows that the key doesn't distinguish between the continuous monitors and the ZEPFA sensors so this is presumably for one or the other I couldn't see any basis of comparison within that you're saying that the the monitors are producing similar results allowing for different time frame are they uh apologies if the graph's not clear so um so this is um a graph showing uh the levels of particular matter 2.5 or pm 2.5 at all of the sites um so it's the same scale um so it's the same time frame for all of them um so pm 2.5 is typically um it's typically dominated by sort of regional events so you'd expect all of the monitors to be picking the similar levels up at the same time unless there's something particularly local like um like what appears to have happened at Haarston um on the first half of that graph um where where you get the particularly high levels that may have been a a local bonfire or something like that possibly has caused a slight a temporary spike at Haarston which hasn't been picked up at the others um but yeah they're they're all measuring the same thing at the same time in different locations and they're all getting similar data so hopefully I'll find it maybe not thank you but um it wasn't clear to me whether this is showing data from the continuous monitors or from Zeffa clearly the same line can't be showing for both um which is this all right so um the so the key show so the the blue the orange and the gray lines of the three continuous monitors that we operate so at Haarston, Impington and North Stowe uh the yellow line is the Zeffa monitor and and then there's a light blue line which is a background monitor in Wick and Fen which I appreciate isn't just in East Cams but that's uh operated by DEFRA that's a sort of a background um control monitor as it were okay so there's no comparison between the PM the continuous monitoring of the Zeffa at the same site because they're being used on different sites the Zeffa is only being used in yes it's different sites yes I see thank you just yeah yes um councillor dr Lucy Wreck up you had a question um thank thank you um I was looking at the um the air quality at england.co.uk website from the continuous monitors at Haarston, Impington and I forget sorry at this moment but there doesn't seem to be much data available for Haarston there's three data points but I couldn't see any for the others I just wondered if that's because it takes time to get that data in or when that data might become visible I'm going to let Connor answer that one uh so since we've had those new monitors uh we use a third party company to collate the data and uh they have not put the data on as of yet we have been in contact I think only last week to query that um and we're waiting for them to get back to us and hopefully back date that data because it is all stored on their own servers as far as I'm aware thank you so I was reading recently about PM 25 in relation to vehicles and the comment was made that tyre wear produced about 2000 times as much pollution as the actual emissions do from the exhaust so that clearly is an important contribution towards um towards it uh it's difficult to measure it's in because it includes also a lot of ultra fine doesn't it as I understand it um I just wondered what whether something should be mentioned about this and other precautions and how one might think about how one might tackle this measuring it because it's difficult to measure in the future um I'd also like to know which which type of traffic is most likely to be is it fast heavy goods traffic is it small vehicles which which is the biggest risk therefore where's the likely the biggest input uh and how where it's another aspect that seems to be important is that uh the 2.5 and ultra fines tend not to show a large change away from the road I know there's not a big decline like there was for the other bulletins I'm presuming that's because they're very fine they're carried a long way right through the atmosphere so we're getting pollution from outside our area what sort of things can we do about that how can we feed into the national strategy um because presumably then it matters really what we do over the whole country for that and just like some comments on that and can we can that at least be mentioned as a as a challenge for the future in the strategy and I understand that the the government is talking about going to World Health Organization um limits on on this in 2025 but I'm not sure that that's something you've heard or what the latest is on that uh thank you councillor can't yet some really good questions there um so uh yeah so PM 2.5 from um non exhaust emissions um so uh there was a report by the air quality expert group um in 2019 um and so about 60 percent of PM 2.5 at that time uh was they estimated from non exhaust emissions so that's uh breaks and tyre wear and the remaining 40 percent obviously from the exhaust and that will be changing as more and more people adopt electric vehicles so there will be the proportion coming from exhaust will will be obviously decreasing which means obviously the tyre wear will be increasing so that is becoming more and more of a um important topic to to look at um so yeah measuring it locally is almost impossible to split out where the different sources of PM 2.5 come from uh it's um yeah something I'm I'm really quite interested in but yeah as yeah there's there's very little way of of saying how much of of what one measuring is coming from a uh from domestic burning how much of it is coming from um is secondary PM from from agriculture from that's just converted from ammonia how much of it is from tyre and brakes how much of it is from exhaust so it's it's it's difficult really difficult to um yeah it's really difficult to to pick out what's coming from where um obviously there are occasions when you can look at the data and you can see a peak um so for example we could see a peak on um bonfire night and and that we can assume quite uh confidently has come from from the activities that happen on bonfire night so there are times when you can see see trends in the data and you you can draw some conclusions but um um yeah it's not really possible to to measure the smoke sources locally um and so we have to rely on on the research um that others have done really in that regard um sorry did you want to come back to you I just wanted to comment that I've read that um tell me a comment on that that the electric cars tend to produce more uh tyre wear because they're heavier than uh petrol or diesel cars and therefore they're going to electric cars while it might reduce uh exhaust emissions may increase um tyre um tyre emissions is that likely to be a problem how much difference will that make again that's a really good question and something I've um I hear quite a lot to be honest it's a question that's um yeah comes up quite often um there is a really good article by the RAC which looks at this in quite good detail and and I can circulate that after the meeting if people are interested um but um to summarise that to obviously uh the 40% that's coming from exhaust is immediately taken away um in terms of the non exhaust emissions of the braking tends to be much more done by um regenerative braking so they're using the motor to slow the vehicle down rather than using the brakes so the particular emissions from the brakes tend to be uh much lower there was some there were some reports that uh the tyre wear would be incredibly more but in practice um people running large fleets of electric vehicles um haven't found a great deal of difference um certainly myself I drive an electric electric vehicle and have um the the front tyres are a little bit worn but the rear tyres are pretty much as new after about 25 000 miles so I don't think uh I know I'm only a sample of one but um but yeah um that that seems to be worn out by the um the information in the RAC report um so it possibly makes a slight increase on the tyre but I think that's very much offset by the the reduction in braking the reduction in the exhausts um so um the other questions that you mentioned which vehicles so obviously uh larger vehicles yet will will produce more emissions so um in the same way as large buses and lorries have contributed more to to nitrogen dioxide they are likely as well to produce contribute more to to PM pollution um and in terms of the cross boundary particulates yes that's a again that's a really difficult one um and I think it's it's a challenge um that's that's going to cause a lot of work over the next next few years um I think things like the joint strategy for example and cross boundary working is is going to help um bigger projects to to um help produce traffic but yeah every local authority just has to do their their bits in their own area I think is the approach um and you know we're not just doing it for ourselves we're doing it for our neighbouring authorities and hopefully uh they're doing the same for us in return um so so yeah it is a I think it's something that that I recognise I'm not definitely deaf or I've recognised that there's there's a wider wider issues there um yeah on that commenting on that uh the final challenge of five micrograms and what it is but uh I can remember that two five two point uh no no point at five okay um for the articles uh it seems a very high challenge that's because I remember looking at a map this is a sort of challenge it's typical of the tb even in the Arctic how likely do you think it is that we can actually get in get near that yes and so I think the world health organisation at the moment I think they they estimate that I think 99% of the world's population exceed their their world health organisation um target for the 2.5 p.m 2.5 um so yes we do recognise that it's a very ambitious and difficult target um and I think that's why we we talked about having some interim targets and I think I mentioned in presentation so yes I think interim targets that are achievable and then hopefully uh move on from there I think yeah it's not something we're going to achieve overnight definitely thank you um I just have one question myself um from the slides um and we were talking about um p.m 2.5 being more of a sort of background and regional effect compared with nitrogen dioxide and I wondered um what the would you degree that it seemed to me that nitrogen dioxide is probably a sort of relatively short-lived effect on what on the body because it would probably quite quickly metabolised um just guessing whereas I think the the danger with the p.m 2.5 is it kind of crosses the barrier into the bloodstream and then you know once it's in it's kind of there for a long time so and therefore presumably it has um a sort of cumulative health impact that nitrogen dioxide doesn't so if you sort of take the cumulative um sort of area under the curve if you like and compare that with the nitrogen dioxide does that mean that p.m 2.5 in relation to it's it's the the the target's raining for is is that actually a much more serious concern than the nitrogen dioxide or are they sort of on a path uh yeah thank you councillor Harvie really uh interesting question um so yes you're absolutely right so um the the the ultra fine particles they will um cross over into the bloodstream when you're in your lungs when you're breathing and then I think the reason they're linked to things like Alzheimer's and dementia is because those those ultra fine particles then get potentially um into the um into your brain and and they yes you're right once they're in there they're very difficult to then get out so there is a cumulative effect and so so the question was is that is that more of an important target is yeah if we could do something about only one of those two would would it be p.m 2.5 is the most important one to address um perhaps we're just going beyond what we as a mere observers and it's we need some sort of uh research person to tell us the answer to that I would like to say that I think we'd like to tackle them all yes will be my diplomatic answer that's a very good answer thank you um okay so um can't just um I know Matthew covered them so um I'll just run through the recommendations to the committee and then I think we've got a further opportunity um to discuss the report and the recommendation so we've got um four recommendations um in front of us today um so I haven't got the report open so which page that's on but um recommendation a review and comment upon the updates on the air quality strategy which I think we're going to do anyway um note the conclusions of the use of public space protection orders and recommend to the lead cabinet member to progress a positive engagement campaign rather than a sort of more enforcement based approach um on the vehicle idling issue um and see recommend to the lead cabinet member to progress an early revision of the south cambridge air district council air quality strategy as a joint um greater cambridge air quality strategy with cambridge city council with the finalized strategy coming before the committee in spring 2024 and then finally um recommendation d to recommend to the lead cabinet member to adopt the who health organization air quality guidelines as the air quality standard to work towards across um greater cambridge as as as our new target um so can I can I reopen the floor then to comments on those recommendations are are we um do you think we're we're um well let's have a discussion first but um then I'll ask you after the discussion whether we're happy to um agree to those recommendations um do we have any other further inputs councillor sand good I think you just got in there first thank you chair fairly random thought around point b um we're getting um civil parking enforcement in the next couple of days I believe and some of that I assume will be around schools to make sure that people are parking legally to drop off and pick up times could we give the what used to be called traffic wardens I think they're called civil parking agents now um leaflets just to hand out um particularly to drivers who are sitting there with their engines idling unnecessary just to explain you know one that's a bad thing I'm not sure who could take that forward I think thank you yeah well thank you councillor sand but that seems like an eminently sensible possible avenue and I do to any of the officers perhaps our officers already got that one in hand but is there any comment on that as a an idea or a proposal um yes so just quickly say um we have uh in my previous authority we have done similar to that and so it is it's something that I can look into I must admit being quite new I'm not sure of the appropriate people to speak to um but I can take that away and look at that so so can can we sort of therefore note um that is a possible approach to investigate um as a committee but I was happy with that um council oh I think actually was councillor dr lucy redrup um was next is it okay yes fine I just wanted to comment on what you were saying that oh okay oh okay I just wanted to say that as I understand it I don't think the small parking officers can actually enforce the binding because that's a road thing well then it's a highway thing well then uh yeah parking doesn't mean that they can't be advised specifically didn't say enforce it just handing out information on it should be um council redrup thank you chair I just wanted to state my thoughts on recommendation d about the world health air quality guidelines and I just think although it is still sounds incredibly difficult I think it is really important and you know it's about our health our children's health etc so I think I think being ambitious is is is really important I'm pleased to see this as being put put to us today it's something that I've asked about before from the air quality team so I'm really pleased to see it today thank you yes thank you and I sort of certainly um agree with that that um we will we always need a a stretch target don't we even even if it's um a tricky one and of course we have got the world health organisation behind this um and I'm sure they have arrived at that figure as a kind of somewhere between a stretch and something that would be achievable and I suppose given that this is a a sort of background effect as global hopefully global burning of particularly coal I imagine um diminishes there'll be less of it swirling around the globe and maybe that makes things easier so yes I think we absolutely I mean yeah if the committee will agree later on I would agree with that um do you have any other inputs from the committee I have one myself but or maybe I'll I'll go ahead with my I just um um similar theme to that the changing composition of vehicle emissions as we go to EVs I wondered um you know given the importance of PM2 sorry PM2.5 and as we see more electrification of the vehicle and transport fleet whether um these other sources will become um but the sort of dominant problem if you like and and I do still worry about and I know I've raised this in a previous committee um the impact of particularly in oil burning villages um the impact of um oil burning um boilers um I worry about the cost of living crisis because I suspect that people um know evidence of this but just human nature are probably having their boilers service less often and I know that unless you regularly replace the atomizing jet you know your performance your boiler will decrease um I also worry about the number of um oil burning range cookers that we have I did challenge the market leader um to produce their energy efficiency figures and they said well we don't actually know how efficient our um cookers range cookers are because um they're not classified as um a heating appliance they're classified as a cooking um appliance and therefore we're not required to know what this is but I've done my own um research on this and I found when I measured um the um a range cooker the thermal efficiency was 40 percent which is quite shocking um compared with a modern condensing boiler um which would normally be 90 percent but also the the sort of um combustion technology is is Victorian you know so I can imagine um there is um you know a problem there that will perhaps while it's tolerable at the moment as we gradually reduce the um road traffic emissions it will become something of interest and I I did wonder you know with all this wonderful data um in the report uh we've had whether there would be a way in future sort of um or maybe it's already in there comparing um oil burning villages with gas burning villages to see if we can actually see um if that oil burning domestic oil burning is actually contributing to the background level of um pm 2.5 I was also wondering another approach to try and sort of um isolate that as a factor might be to work um proactively and in advance with the county highways people um and and when we know there's going to be um you know a lengthy road closure for whatever reason whether there's an opportunity there to um sort of establish a baseline and then take some more measurements without traffic and you know see if we can actually um get any useful information out of that just just really a few thoughts so um if nobody else has any further questions or inputs um sorry yes you know just one comment to um just an observation that you didn't find much impact of um sorry of people dropping kids to school in terms of pollution in particularly whether pm 2.5 and that's what we've been saying that's not really surprising if the main source of pollution is from from from brakes and uh and tires rather than from emissions uh from the exhaust pipe we would expect that not to make a major difference on 2.5 it might make a big difference on the uh on the mattresser but the uh you wouldn't you'd expect it not to be big on the other that's that's more dispersed where the dribbles are traveling faster and yeah and accelerating more rapidly so yes but i think i may count on the car and i think what matthew was saying earlier on was that actually as an overall picture the the level of pm 2.5 is mainly from non-trafficks or mainly from non-traffick sources and therefore uh as the years go by become more important to um sort of focus in on the non-traffick sources and see if we can see um in a bit more detail what the picture is there um because i'm sure it can't all be sort of um blowing to us from we've kind of really off-shore that heavy industry so probably a lot of that is coming from elsewhere but um i'm sure we are responsible for at least some of it so it'll be interesting to know um okay so going back to our recommendations um can we can we um are there any particular recommendations any member would object to endorsing here i can't see if everybody would be um they will look um to me uh very very sensible um so can we take um that by um affirmation then thank you very much um so i think that item is is now concluded um and item five on our agenda is an oral update on the greening of south camp the the greening of south camp's haul project and um rebecca is going to give us an update on that thank you all right um so um i'm just giving this update on behalf of the project team um specifically this has been provided by shawn mason who's on the project team so um and he does he apologised for missing today's meeting um um but has asked me to do the update so um so in order to enhance the um the management of the project currently they have now taken on board um a technical project manager alongside an employer's agent and the clerk of works um and they will be overseeing the completion of the project and the systems procedures and reporting um have been induced introduced sorry to ensure that um problems are being reported and any rectification plans are being put in place to address those issues so there's there's a bit more oversight there um the construction place plan is currently being revised and detailed to monitor the remaining works closely and mechanical and electrical works have been checked with the client team to update um that particular aspect of the construction phase plan in the most recent quarter they have principally tested all the electrical vehicle chargers and fixed issues that have been identified and replaced any faulty units they continue to track their performance and ensure that they are working properly and replacements were undertaken at the cost of the contractor a design rectification by a contractor has been proposed to enable the chiller and the solar car ports to operate concurrently and further work has been undertaken to the design before approval could be granted for that and then again that will be undertaken at the contractor's cost the programme of works comprises a number of separate works and including the solar car port the car park the electric vehicle chargers lighting cctv building management system fire alarms and the heating system itself which is the ground source heat pump so the focus of the team's current attention for this period is on the heating system itself with it being the time of year and to ensure that that is performing correctly and um to optimum performance so that's what I have thank you very much um do you have any any questions from the committee oh councillor peace pain sorry thank you very helpful to have that update so i'm assuming the eb chargers are now all working effectively but my if I may have a question also because I see it important that we demonstrate the benefits of this what displays are we planning for instance of the performance of the solar panels so that visitors for instance to this hall can see what the benefits might be thank you that's a good question and I don't have the answer to myself but I will ask you on this that is a good question um and you know personally as a an eb car user I come here and I know well I've seen people use them I haven't had to use them myself yet but I know that they are working but yeah the displays could be clever I have to say councillor redwrap and I did have cause to um thank you all for the provision of the eb chargers because we arrived here with zero miles um to the audits and governance committee last was it earlier in the week so um we will have been stranded otherwise uh so it did work very well so um I don't know very um items of other business that we can I I did have one item I noticed that today um and this relates to discussion we've had previously in the climate environment by the committee over you know um heritage assets and how far we can go in terms of upgrading their energy performance and and the sort of planning balance between you know harm to heritage assets and public benefits on it I just noted that um heritage england um publish new guidance on that which um today in fact which which which does sort of um you know in certainly they've shifted their dial very um slightly I would say in favour of giving due recognition to the the importance of addressing climate change um so I think we've sort of penciled in um a re-visitation at some point in our programme for that but I just thought that was an interesting thing as it was published today to mention um so I don't think we have any other items um so the next meeting will be on Tuesday the 13th February um I see from my notes here that um there's also an invitation for other members to contribute sort of items which might I think I've just um mentioned one but I know that's already in in the sort of forward programme are there any other um items that we might um look to put under our microscope if you like Peter Fane chair I don't know if this may be a matter for other committees but it's not one that's normally covered by the planning committee for instance it's the introduction of um biodiversity net gain and the impact of that in terms of meeting our biodiversity objectives I think it might be worth this committee looking at that okay yes of course so on that point um councillor Fane so we um we are still continuing with our series of workshops for CIAC and we've only had one so far I appreciate so I'm calling it a series but it will be a series and indeed the next one which um it is planned on biodiversity good so that is in our case and um Eleanor is actually working on the on the current timetable for those workshops so you all know about that in due course thank you very much okay well so with that I think um you can hear this meeting so you are too close and thank you everyone for your attendance thank you