 This is Think Tech Hawaii. Community matters here. Aloha, and welcome to Business in Hawaii with Reg Baker. We are a show that broadcasts every Thursday from 2 to 2.30 at the downtown studios of Think Tech Hawaii and beautiful Halaululu Hawaii. We are a show that focuses predominantly on success stories in Hawaii and their owners. There are a lot of challenges doing business in Hawaii, high cost of living, a remote location, very heavily unionized state, and a lot of rules and regulations that aren't always friendly. But we do have success stories and there are many businesses here that are successful and make it work in Hawaii. So today we have one of those individuals, Darren Fox, who is a CEO, owns and manages a company called Ocean Legends, an international diving academy, and expanding quickly has made some very successful accomplishments in the last year or two and has got a lot to talk about. So Darren, it's great to have you on the show. Thanks, Rich. Great to be here. So now tell me, first thing, how long have you been in Hawaii? Since 2006. So about 10, 11 years. Yeah, a long time. So you've been here for a while. Did you come and start the business right at the get-go or did you do something first? Actually, I was on vacation. I took a break from National Geographic and I came here and got into surfing and loved Hawaii and decided to stay. Now just out of curiosity, what did you do for National Geographic? I was a safety diver. I was a rebreather, a safety diver to make sure that we could get our camera crew to the depths that we wanted and made sure production was happy with our shooting. All right. So I would imagine you've done that all over the world? All over the world. That must be a great life. Yeah, Blue Planet was interesting. Yeah, I would imagine. Where did you originate and come from? I think you mentioned New Zealand? Yeah, New Zealand. Wellington, New Zealand. I was born in Southeast Asia and then New Zealand is home. All right. Very good. And that's where you got into the dive business? Right. Yeah, I was seven years old and my dad was my instructor and I had a five-minute briefing on how to go scuba diving. They start you early in New Zealand. That's good. And so you grew up over there and then, I guess, joined National Geographic. Right. And then traveled around the world. All over the world. Yeah. And of all the places you visited, you chose Hawaii. Hawaii, yeah. Who couldn't? I mean, who wouldn't, right? I mean, it's beautiful here. Well, very good. Well, we're very fortunate to have you here. Thank you. Now, you came in 2006 and then how long did it take for you to get off of vacation mode and start getting into, you know, starting a business? 2008 was when we first started the company and then we've been here ever since and we've expanded and, you know, it's been challenging, but it's been worth it. And what are some of those challenges that you encountered? I think it's just the industry overall. It's very competitive. And one of the biggest things was to be able to, you know, find resources, you know, tap into resources that could help your business, particularly it's such a heavy tourism-based industry. The competitive part, I think, was the biggest challenge that we've had. So the resources that you're talking about, you're talking about human resources or people to help you start the business and get it going or what type of resources? Just more people to help you start going, give you the right advice, location is a big thing, and your target market is a big thing. So it's a lot of pieces that you need to know when you're doing something with regards to tourism. So when you began and started and put the plan together is what you have today, what you originally started out to do? Not really, no. You know, it's been an amazing journey. People thought I was crazy to bring sophisticated rebreather training to Hawaii and, you know, they said, Dan, you'd be broke in a year. And here we are going pretty strong. So you proved them all wrong. I did, yeah. And we're probably going to get into that rebreather a little bit maybe in the second half. But when you first started the business, it was predominantly focused on tourism in the tourism industry and doing what for them? We were taking people out on dives, teaching them how to scuba dive, scuba excursions for certified divers, competing with every other dive center in Hawaii. Doing the intro dives? Doing the intro dives, yeah, shallowed into dives, total watching all those things. Now I don't know if I ever mentioned it to you, but I'm a dive master and I spent a lot of time in the water. And I used to go on the intro dives with some friends that I had out in Kokomarina and take, you know, one tourist on each arm and take them around. And sometimes they'd get so scared they'd just kind of freeze up on you. Yeah. And they'd just hang there and you'd be pulling two people along with you. Yeah. Happens every day. So, and that's how you started the business? That's how I started. Yeah. And I had a storage unit because I couldn't afford to have a shop and I started in a storage unit and a pickup truck. That was when I started. Wow. Yeah. So you really started on a shoestring? Pretty much. A very short one, yeah. And there's a lot of people that are watching this show and they're thinking, well, okay, how do you start a business and how do you get your customers and how did that work for you? Well, you just have to figure out what you want. You just have to figure out, be single focused and pick a niche market, you know, and do everything that you can do and put the elements together to then achieve that. So we went to all the big hotels. We did a lot of stuff on social media. You know, we met great people like you that kind of helped us, you know. And for us, that was the main thing, is to get our name out and to do a good job. And we figured the rest of it would just fall into place. And then the word of mouth starts kicking in, or the coconut wireless is the same. And so you get a lot of tourists coming in and I guess, do you, you know, and I'm just curious, there's an inherent curiosity, but how do you get the customers from the hotels to your shop? Do you have a van or something to pick them up and bring them over? Yeah. So you get on my pickup truck. So you throw them in the back, right? Yeah, exactly. Not really. But, and then we graduated to 16 passenger vans and one of them I still have today and I still own the pickup truck. It sits in my garage as a memento. And that's how we started. We shuttle service, full service shop. Really? So you pick them up, you go on the dive, you bring them back. You're still doing that type of business? Absolutely. Yeah, every day. Well, it's a nice revenue stream to come in. It is. And some of the tourists that come in have never really been in the water before and especially under the water. Right. Yeah, you have to get them really comfortable and there's a bunch of ways that you can do that, but at the end of the day it comes down to the instructor and we emphasize a lot with our professionals to make sure that they have the right training and they make people feel at ease because if you get that done, the rest of it in the water they're just going to have a blast. Exactly. And getting them comfortable at the two-foot level helps a lot when you get down to around the 20-foot level. Right. And when they see the turtles, they just forget about you and have to hold them back. Any pool work? Do you get into the pools at all at the resorts or anything? Do any of the introductory dives, your orientation there? Yeah, we first saw that we did some stuff with the Kahala and then now we have our pool that we use all the time and we do that and then we get them comfortable in the pool and then we take them to the ocean. So now is this your pool? No, it's not our pool I wish, but someday soon. You've been growing and we had a chance to chat a little bit before the show, but I was going to be excited about having your own pool because you've got your own boat, right? Right. Yeah, I have my own. So do you take tourists out on little tours as well? So you take them to little dive spots in a boat tour? Yes, we have a personal boat. It's a six-person boat and it keeps everybody together and that way we have safety, which is our biggest concern and then they have a good time because it's a personal experience. It is. Well, a boat dive to me is a whole lot more fun than a shore dive. Absolutely. And why don't you explain for the audience what the difference is? Well, if you go off a boat, you just hop on the reef and you're right there and it's a lot easier and if you go off the shore, then you need to have certain water skills to be able to navigate through a reef break or a rip cart and all those kinds of things. Or a wave. Or a wave, yeah. Yeah. So boat diving is predominantly, I believe, the best for Hawaii. It is. It's a lot easier. You don't get the sand everywhere and you don't have to cart the equipment as far. That's easier. Yeah. There's a lot of, to me, a lot of negatives about a beach dive or a shore dive and I would much rather do a boat dive. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so you've got the tourist component of your business and you do certifications with them or? Yes, we're a full service certification store and we take anybody who wants to learn open water, be a basic certified diver to being a recreational instructor and to be an international instructor. We do it all in our office. Very good. And do you have bilingual people working for you? Yes. We're a Japanese speaking instructor and we also have someone who can speak French as well and Spanish, yeah. Very good. Yeah. Now, French, do we have a lot of tourists that come from a French speaking location like Tahiti maybe or? Sometimes. Yeah. Do they speak French in New Zealand? No. No. No. So this is somebody other than your son. We speak Maori in New Zealand. Yeah. Yeah. And I used to joke with some people, you know, when I go to England, they say we talk American. Right. You know, and I suggest that they learn how to speak English someday. Right. Anyway, another story. So you've got, you know, the tourist business, you've got certifications, but you don't have to be a tourist to go to the school. No. I mean, there's a lot of local customers that you have to come in and get certified. Yeah, absolutely. And we have a lot of dive clubs here in Hawaii too, you know, local dive clubs that we support and we give them good deals on tanks and fills and service their equipment and just try to grow the community. And that's being our focus is the community. Very good. So how long would it take if somebody wanted to get certified and come in and go through your program for the basic certification to go do some open water dive? Normally how long would that take? Just takes about three days to get certified from a non-certified diver not knowing how to scuba dive as long as they're comfortable in the ocean and the water. In three days you could be a certified diver. And after that three days, I mean, a whole new world kind of opens up to you. Oh, yeah. It's a whole different world. It is. And there's so many different places and things to do when you have that open water certification. Absolutely. Matter of fact, you can even go in and have your tanks filled and you can do this on your own or with a buddy, which is always preferred. And if you've got a boat, you can even clean the bottom of your boat where you want to. So how young is the youngest that you've ever had go through one of these programs? Ten-year-old. Ten-year-old. You can be a junior open water and actually you can stop people off at eight, which is a bubble maker course where you can just be in a pool and they get to get the bug of scuba diving. And so when they're 10, you do the open water certification. It's natural. I used to get my boys in the pool in the back. Used to worry my wife to no end, but we used to go down and sit at the bottom of the pool and sit there and make faces at each other. But they got very comfortable breathing through a regulator. Yeah. I have a regulator system ready for my daughter. She's 14 months now, but she'll be five soon. And have you talked to your wife about this? I'm sure she'll be fine with it. Yeah. Very good. Your business includes other components, and we'll probably get more into that right after the break, but it's really taken off. You're starting to build the business here, and you're looking at other locations too, right? Yeah. California and Florida. Yeah. Changing lives every day. So that's a good analogy. Changing lives. You're really opening up. You also do some things with Wounded Warriors. Yes, we do. Actually, we have a very strong Wounded Warrior project that we do, and we support a lot of our veterans here, and our VA program is part of that. What is that VA program? It's where we promote vocational training for people who, in their careers, want to get out of the military, and they want to become technical instructors or recreational instructors, internationally recognized instructors. We create that pathway for them throughout our academy. Well, see, there you go again. Changing lives. Changing lives. Yeah. That's good. That's very good. You can actually go to your academy, pick what avenue they want to take or what they want to learn, and the VA would pay for this. Yeah, it's covered by the VA 100%, and also they can do it while they're active duty as well, because we have part-time classes. Very good. And then once you're through with the certifications, I guess they could probably transition into some sort of paid opportunity. Yeah, absolutely. With us, and then we'll also try to get them a job, whether it's here in Hawaii or internationally or on the mainland, wherever they want to do. Wow. That's very interesting for some of the people. Now, do you have a lot of people taking advantage of this right now? Absolutely. Absolutely. And a lot of it's word of mouth, and they ask around and we're the best program out there, because we're focused on the quality of training as opposed to the quantity, and that is a winning formula for us, and that has never changed since I learned to scuba dive to now. So I don't see it changing anytime soon. Very good. You know, I'm a former Navy guy, and so, you know, I'm used to getting wet and getting into water, and I know a lot of my marine buddies, but Army guys, they can swim too. Oh, yeah. Really? Oh, yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. They have gills. Very good. Well, we're going to take a short break here, and we're going to be back in about 60 seconds, and then we'll get a little bit more into the commercial side of what you're doing. Sure. But this is business in Hawaii with Reg Baker. I'm here today talking with an international diving academy owner about all the different opportunities that are available in the dive business here in Hawaii. We'll be right back. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. My name is Mark Shklav. I'm the host of Think Tech Hawaii's Law Across the Sea. Law Across the Sea comes on every other Monday at 11 a.m. Please join us. I like to bring in guests that talk about all types of things that come across the sea to Hawaii, not just law, love, people, ideas, history. Please join us for Law Across the Sea, aloha. Welcome back. This is Business in Hawaii with Reg Baker. We're here this week talking with Darren Fox about his business in International Diving Academy and Ocean Legends. We were just going to transition. We have finished talking a little bit about the recreational side and the visitor industry side and all the different opportunities that might be available for people coming out of the military or even for civilians that want to get into the dive business. Darren, you've got a commercial side of what you're doing that's really pretty leading edge and one of the first in the country. Yeah. Can you share that story with us? Yeah, sure. We're the first in the country to be awarded a training facility for all rebreaters and advanced breathing systems, which was a shock to me, actually. And the VA told me, you're the first in the country, so take a pat on the back. And I was like, wow, that's great that we could bring Hawaii to the global marketplace. Right. And well, not only to the global marketplace, but be number one. Number one. Yeah. That's excellent. Now, explain to us what a rebreater is. Sure. A rebreater is a machine that's designed to keep you alive artificially in a hazardous environment. So we can take people down to five, six hundred feet on this breathing system that computer controls your breathing rate. So your decompression and the mixes are all computer analyzed and it gives the diver kind of like an astronaut in space. Same thing, but just in the water. And when you say mixes, you're talking about gas versus oxygen. Correct. Yeah. Helium oxygen mixtures. Yeah. And that's a tricky business. You know, you have to be pretty precise with that. Yeah. You know, sometimes when you're going down five or six hundred feet, that's, um, that's pretty deep. It's pretty deep. And you know, under normal circumstances, number one, you would probably never go down that deep, but if, if you went down just a couple hundred feet, there's still a decompression process that could take some time to get you back up. Correct. With this rebreater, you can avoid some of that. Yes. What it does is it'll measure the best mix for the diver and it'll add more oxygen as the diver is coming up to where the decompression gradient is reduced dramatically. Yeah. That's, that's an amazing, um, to me, it's an amazing technology because of my day, they didn't quite have all of that. Yeah. Hawaiian pack, right? Yeah. Uh, so it was, um, a little bit different in those days, but it sounds a whole lot more interesting today. It's very exciting. Yeah. So now you're able to certify people in this. Yeah. From all around the world. Yeah. Right. And then what does that qualify them to do when they're done with this program? They're able to, uh, work commercially, have commercial insurance to be able to work in motion picture, to be able to work, um, as a commercial diver and to do dives that are rated for the rebreather and the training. So the first level is 170 feet. The second level is to 220 feet and the third level is to 330 feet. So there's a lot of opportunities for, for people to get certified to be able to use this, these products and bettering their careers or, you know, moving up the scale. Right. And what I found very interesting about this is that it's not just salvage work that we're talking about here. We're talking about movie production as well. Yeah. Motion picture. Yeah. Motion picture plays particularly in Hawaii or anywhere in the Pacific for that matter. Yeah. You'll be asked to come in and participate to do what work with the photographers in an underwater environment and make sure that everything is safe or what, what is it, what can somebody do in a motion picture environment, which sounds a whole lot more exciting than salvage work. Yeah. Absolutely. So you could be a safety diver. You could, you could be a, an extra camera person, right? You could have the lighting and also predominantly, you know, you're, you have an ability to work with producers and with directors and all these people who get into the marine environment and it's rewarding. Well, I was just going to ask, what's the compensation, if somebody were to get into that type of business, what type of compensation are they looking at? Do they get paid by the hour? Yeah. It ranges anywhere from, you know, 200 an hour to 300 an hour to a daily rate. So, you know, your return on investment is huge and because this machinery is the cutting edge technology, right, people come to us from different parts of the mainland to, to train with us, of course, Hawaii's paradise, so they get to do that. And then when they graduate, they can go anywhere in the world and work in any kind of industry that is involved with rebreaters. Right. Now, do you have people waiting to get into this course? We do. Yeah, because we, we have such a small ratio, we have four people to want instructor and we're really big on that. So yes, there's a lot of people and we have to go through the process of selecting people, but we say yes to everybody and then we make it happen. Right. Sometimes you have to get into a waiting line and wait for your turn. Yeah. And then how long is the course itself? The whole program for the first course is about 19 and a half weeks because we take someone from open water all the way up to rebreat their supervisor, which is the first professional rating. And if they do good there, then we can take them all the way up to becoming an instructor. So open water is like the first prerequisite. Correct. Yeah. Correct. Okay, so they go through this program, takes about 19 to 20 weeks. They finish. What happens after they graduate and they get certified? Then what we try to do is we try to get them working with our instructor is to learn how to teach because you can have your subject matter, but if you don't know how to present that information, then that's another course. So what we try to do is integrate them into being able to understand that each client has different needs and we have to make sure that the instructor can deliver a quality product. Well, and there's nothing that prepares you and makes sure that you really know your stuff by teaching it. Yes. Yes, absolutely. And that's a whole different. Yeah. It really reinforces that learning process. And then they do that for a while. They get some experience. They get some underwater time built up. And then how does the movie production companies find people to help them with this? Well, they contact us for the most part because we've had so much history with us and they contact us and then we'll find and staff the need for the production company. Wow. That's exciting. So really good stuff. Maybe you keep it. We actually did a job for Red Bull recently, which was great. Red Bull? Yeah. Herbert Nies, the World Record Holding Freediver, was here a few months ago and we did some stuff for him for a Red Bull commercial. So that was a fun job. That's kind of neat. Yeah. And does that take a lot of underwater time and something like that? Correct. I mean, it could be a pretty quick gig, though. I mean, pretty quick turnaround. Correct. There was a lot of time on the water and a lot of fun. Yeah. That sounds good. Now, for people who, I guess, really want to get into this, is there a personality type of trait that you're looking for? I mean, who? I mean, pretty much anybody. Anybody can do it. Male, female, introvert, extrovert, I mean, anybody can really get into this. Anybody. And you don't have to learn how to swim either. As long as you're comfortable in the water, we'll take care of that. They just have to come over and see us. We used to joke about the fact that, you know, you want to go diving? Well, I don't know how to swim. Well, that's not the point of diving. Right. The point of diving is you're supposed to sink. Right. Exactly. Under the water. Yeah. Anybody can do this. It's open for anybody. Yeah. Well, that's very good. And it could actually become quite a hobby for families, too. Yeah. So you can get a whole family involved. Husband, wife, kids. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great recreation, you know, for the whole family to get involved. Right. And when we support our local clubs, a lot of families are in that community. So it helps us service that need. That's right. Now, we touched on it, but we didn't go into much detail. You're going to be expanding operations to Southern California. Right. Over to Florida at some point. Yeah. Why don't you talk a little bit about that, share that with us. Sure. Well, we're planning to have two locations in Florida. One in Belmont, Long Beach, and one in Coronado, San Diego, for our military community. And that came about because every time I'm on a boat in California, people say, why don't you put one here in California? I lived on the road, right? And then the same thing happens when we go to Florida for cave diving, because we teach that as well. So that's why we decided that next year we're going to put two facilities in California and one in Florida. So it's exciting. So you'll be training people there just like you train here. Correct. Yeah. And there's big military bases in both places. Yeah. Absolutely. So this is going to be perfect for that VA benefit and having them pay for this education. Correct. Yeah. That's going to be excellent. Now, I've not done a cave dive, but I've seen it. I know they've got courses on it. I get a little creeped out, you know, because you go into something and, you know, it's, you need to make sure that you know how to get out again. Right. Yeah. And that's, I always found that to be the most important part of a cave dive is to leave a little line behind you so you always know how to turn around and come back out again. We run lines in caves, for sure. Yeah. It's going to be a little tricky. Have you ever gone out to a shark's cove and done any diving out there? Absolutely. Actually, it was one of my first dives I did when I, when I got to Hawaii was the guys were like, hey, there's a couple of caves on the North Shore. And so we went out and checked them out with lines. Yes. It's a little notorious. There's been people I think that are still stuck in there somewhere. Correct. Yeah. Those lines are very important. For somebody, a family that, you know, husband, wife, a couple of kids, if they want to get into diving, could they come to you as a family unit? Absolutely. And you can put them through the training together? Yeah. We do a personal class for them with an instructor so they get to do it all together and there's no extra charge for that. We just do that as part of the program. Very good. And so that could really be a bonding opportunity for that family. Absolutely. And I don't want to lock you into anything, but generally speaking, what's the cost of something like that for, say, a mom and a dad and a couple of kids to go through a training program? Well, each course is about $495 for a basic certification. So what we would do is we would give them a group rate, so, you know, like 400 bucks or something like that. And they'd be paying accounts for a family. So we would just cater that to what they needed. And to get into that, you know, and a lot of people, I don't know if they understand or appreciate it, but you provide a lot of the equipment, too. They don't have to come with all of the stuff. I mean, you provide it, too. We provide all that as part of the program. Right. And then if they decide to really get into it, then they can probably buy some of the stuff through you and then be able to do it on their own. So, you know, it's pretty simple to get into it. And then you got the boat, and they can do boat dives and forget about that, those beach dives. Right. And the cleanup after. We've got probably about 30 seconds left, and we're going to have to sign off. But any quick closing remarks or anything you want to just leave with the audience? Sure. I want to share that, you know, dreams are possible, and you just have to know what you want and go after it. Very good. And let me assure everybody in the audience that once you get under water and you start looking at the whole new life that's under there, you'd be amazed at what you have not seen for a long time or forever. You know, it's a great environment. It's a lot of fun. But this is Business in Hawaii with Reg Baker. We broadcast live every Thursday from 2 to 230, and we focus on successful stories like Darren Fox here of who made it and are successful in Hawaii. Hope to see you next week. Until then, aloha.