 Aloha and welcome to Global Connections. I'm your host, Carlos Juarez, and it gives me a great pleasure to bring two guests to our program today that are going to help us get some inside perspective, better informed perspective on the situation in Cuba. As you know, we've seen Cuba plunged into turmoil in recent days by the largest protests against the government in decades. And well, on one hand it can be seen as well as more of a range of protest movements around the world. But on the other hand, it's distinct and different and important for us to look at, given the context, the history, the location. So joining me today, I have two guests. I'm especially delighted to welcome. I have Susana Rodriguez-Rici. She joins us from Los Angeles. She's an award-winning Cuban-born poet, writer, a playwright, and a director, producer, a scholar. More importantly, she's a teacher of writing programs at UCLA, one of my alma modders. And so I'm excited to welcome you. Susana is also an affiliate in the University of California Cuba program initiative, which is based at the UC Irvine campus. So Susana, welcome to the program. And thank you for joining us. I'll turn in just a moment to you. But I also want to briefly introduce our second guest that we're also joined by Arianna Hernandez-Riguan. And Arianna is a cultural anthropologist from Tulane University. And she studies issues of public expression of social political ideologies, issues of race, and she's also spent several years in Cuba back in the 90s doing fieldwork, looking particularly at state media outlets and different aspects of recording studios, advertising agencies. So very interesting because we're going to see, as we talk about this, how important social media has become today. And so it'll be valuable to give insights from both of you. Arianna, welcome as well to the program. And so thank you both for joining me. I'm in Honolulu, as you know, and our audience really is worldwide. But certainly, while the focus is the Asia Pacific region, it's very important for us to take a look. Of course, Hawaii itself has an island state. We've got challenges and issues that that presents. But Cuba, Cuba, of course, a very important part of the region of the US, the Caribbean. And as scholars, as Cuban yourself, Susana, I wanted to just maybe first give us some background about your own interest in Cuba. I mean, Susana, you were born there, but tell us a little bit more, some of what you've been doing. And then I want us to really turn to what's been going on, some reflections, some thoughts. So I want to just open it at this point, Susana, please just share with us a few words. I know also a chance to mention that you've got a new novel just published now. And we want to make sure our audience knows about that. It also touches on Cuba, right? Can you say a few words about that and just introduce yourself? Yeah, sure. So I'm Susana Rodriguez-Dresi, as you say, I'm faculty in writing programs at UCLA, also a UC Cuba affiliate faculty. I have a PhD in comparative literature, specialized in Cuban literature in particular, connections between Cuba and North Africa, Latin America and the Arab world specifically working with Cuba. Of course, I have been, I've worked with with Adriana, who we will hear from and animated in the past as associate and literary editor of Cuba counterpoints, a journal that focuses on on Cuban issues. And I'm sure she will tell you more about it when she speaks. I write about Cuba. You know, I write autobiographical essays. I have also been writing fiction. And I have, as you mentioned, a novel that came out in the fall of 2020 called Until We're Fish that I'm very happy it recently won the Nautilus Book Award in fiction. So thank you. I'm very excited about that. And it's a novel that that that begins in 1959 and goes all the way to the 1990s and follows the lives of mainly three people, Elio Maria and Pepe as as they deal with these these great historical forces that impact their life throughout throughout the decades. Excellent. Thank you so much for that. And perhaps turning now to Adriana, go ahead and maybe help us understand a little bit of your own background. And as I mentioned earlier, you did some fieldwork in Cuba. But thank you for joining us as well, Adriana. Thank you. Well, I went to Cuba to study what what at the time looked like a transition to capitalism. And that was in the middle 90s. But of course, the transition didn't happen. But I looked at how the economic reforms that were taking place in the media and in culture changed within how people thought of themselves of work or property of the role of the government. And so I've been, you know, I've followed up on that over the over the years, following political and social and economic developments in Cuba. I founded a web scene of Cuban affairs, where Susana worked with me. And I also coordinate the network of Cuban scholars, which is a worldwide network of academics with about 840 some people. But and then lady, I've been doing research in Miami on Trumpism and on ideologies here and US-Cuba relations, but from the perspective of everyday life and the sort of views that people have, you know, trying to understand how immigrants think of questions like freedom or property or the role of government, how people who lived under socialism sort of developed their lives in relation with the state and with each other, what expectations they have of police and so on. So this is their research that among other things, the research that I've been doing, I've also I've also been doing flow work in media outlets here in Miami. Well, it's clear. I mean, both of you bring, I think, a very informed perspective on this issue, very personal, of course, as well. But what we see now in this past week, we are beginning, I think, last Sunday, we began to see, you know, some protests and we need to be very clear. Our protests are rarely seen on Cuba. It's a place where the opposition to the government is pretty well stifled. You know, the state has a pretty strong control. And so on one hand, seeing thousands of people taking to the streets in cities across the island, shouting freedom down with the day. This is not usual. And, you know, it took on some violence. It's also spread to many parts outside of Cuba, particularly where the diaspora is. But as I look at it, obviously, there are various drivers in some ways. Similar things are happening in a few other areas, but it's not quite the same. So let me mention at least three and maybe get your thoughts on this. On one hand, we have the coronavirus crisis, the pandemic itself. And some of it appears to be protesting the result of exhaustion. You know, there's obviously a combination of an economic and a health crisis. So actually, the coronavirus is one, but it's also the health, sorry, the economic crisis itself. And these have taken, of course, you know, made life increasingly more difficult. The other is, and I'm curious, really, your thoughts on this. And then you obviously have an M on this, and that is the internet itself and social media, what role it is playing. Because again, we've seen the largest protests really since the start of the communist revolution back in 59. And so many Cubans up, you know, in earlier times, perhaps didn't have social media today. I'm curious, what can you share with us about that? What is the role of the internet? But again, I just want to turn to you. Is it the pandemic? Is it the crisis? Is it the social media? Is it, I don't know, some combination of those? What are some thoughts about what's going on? Or how do we understand it? What do we make of it? I guess, perhaps, opening up to either of you. I think that, like all, like all events, it's a combination of things, right? So there are parallel processes, and then at some point, you know, things ignite. So I think that all of, you know, all of the ones that you mentioned, obviously play a big factor. But, you know, in historical processes, it's a little bit like the building that collapsed in Miami, you know, why the question is not so much why did it happen, but why did it happen now? And it's, you know, when all these factors came together. I mean, I think the role of the internet, and it will be good to know Susana's thoughts, the role of the internet in this case is interesting, because it seems to be different from what students of social media have predicted, because the protest began in small towns with low connectivity. And I understand that, you know, like social media was for us to find out, but communicating among themselves, I've been told that it was, a lot of it was on the phone. So, you know, so it would be interesting to eventually, I guess, you know, find out the exact role that social media had. Obviously, it has had a lot in publicizing the protests and it making it more contagious throughout the island. But I think that the big surprise was that it didn't start in Miami. I understand that it actually started the night before. So, you know, there were protests. They started in the morning. I think it was Saturday. They started in the morning in San Antonio, Los Angeles, but I've been told that the evening before, there was already a revolt in Palma Soriano and that's apparently where it started. And, but we didn't, you know, we didn't hear about it until the next day. And even though the government, you know, has blacked out, blacked out internet, you know, doing this, that didn't stop people on the streets. So, you know, so I think the question is how important, you know, very important, of course, in publicizing this and for the world to know, but in organizing, you know, in sort of like sparking the fire, I'm not sure. I'm not sure because I think that it was, you know, it was more probably face to face and phone and under wraps, but I guess that, you know, when scholars exactly investigate the beginnings, they'll find out. But of course, no doubt that, you know, social media and the internet. It is a rule. And let me just provide some context here. Obviously, we've seen, like every place in the world in recent years, particularly under Raul Castro's presidency, Cuba began liberalizing steps that led to greater internet connectivity. So, you had a situation since then where social networks have basically been used to express some of the dissatisfaction with government in ways that didn't exist before. And so today, many young, particularly young population, young people in Cuba have access to Facebook, Twitter, Instagram as their main sources of information from the state and in independent media. So, there's no doubt, there's no doubt. But my question is, without, so if last week there had not been any connection to the internet, will these protests have begun? And I think they booked. Interesting. Yeah. Let's see. Anything you want to add, Ariana, about maybe the role of either internet, social media or other factors or how do you see some of this playing out? I think you're asking Susana. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, Susana. I mean, look, there's no doubt that, you know, you asked originally all about all of these forces impacting or igniting, having a role in igniting what has happened in Cuba. And there's no doubt that if we want to, or the average Cuban's economic situation has suffered greatly, partly because of, you know, the tightening of U.S. sanctions. Cuban Americans, if they can't send remittances to their friends and family on the island, then they will ultimately hurt their friends and family. If a tourist can't visit, then that will also hurt the emerging, or at least until recently, tourist sector. And they will feel it. However, and of course, there's COVID in the mix, which has absolutely impacted people globally. But let us not forget, Cuba has enjoyed preferential loans from countries like Spain and China that during the 70s and 80s at a moment of Soviet, or what we've called the Soviet largest, Cubans were struggling to eat, heal and close themselves. I was there at that time. That, you know, U.S. embargo in Cuba set in place since 1962 is not a complete and total embargo. In fact, according to the U.S. Department and state website, the United States is the largest provider of food and agriculture products to Cuba. So while, you know, Cuban lack of food and medicine, the government has built luxury hotels and hotel restaurants with generous menus that ultimately have only reached the tourists, but not the Cuban people. We had also, you know, at the beginning of the year, I gave a talk precisely on the talk of medical humanities, and I was discussing the two vaccines that Cuba at the time was developing, and that was sovereign one and two. Now you also have, you have sovereign two and Abdullah. That hasn't apparently reached the people either. Where is the blockage there? Is it coming from outside? Is it coming from inside? So the situation is definitely, definitely complex in Cuba. And like Arianna mentioned earlier, it's a combination of things that I think have helped ignite, but certainly the 62 years of the Communist dictatorship and a one-party system responsible for countless human rights violations have had a little bit to do with what has finally happened. And I think the the ignition while we may not know, we definitely can can have some idea. I think social media has definitely had to do with it. But as Arianna mentioned, I also think that at this point, it would have perhaps happened without it. And this may have maybe expedited the process a little bit, but there was also, there was also, there's also a movement, the San Isidro movement, that we heard from and there was a protest in November of 20, 2020. And so I think that was part of the inspiration as well, as well as the many protests around the world and the protests that we saw here in our own country. I mean, I think it's extremely inspiring. And because there is social media, and because they have access to images of what was happening here, I think it's undeniable that when you see powerful images of people voicing their frustrations, a country like Cuba who take notice and eventually come to do the same. We also have young young people who who did not grow up with the the romanticized version of a revolution, people for whom, perhaps, perhaps images of Hollywood are much more important and all of these things that perhaps has nothing to do with patriotism, but certainly has to do, has certainly opened up a window for them to the world. And it's not just social media, I think this began, you know, really in the 90s when, you know, when people began to exchange videos and there was, you know, the flash drives and all of these things circulating and people got to have a little bit of a window to the world. I was there until 1981. And, you know, we didn't, we didn't have that. You know, I was thinking the other day, you know, I, my image just to give you an example of California was, was the California covered in snow, right? So I had no idea that it's sunny California. I had never tasted certain things or seen certain images. We were very, very limited and except for a few mostly music that came from, from the outside, there was nothing coming in or out of, out of the island. So we were extremely, extremely naive about the rest of the world, had no idea what was happening. So I think, I think the 90s, even though it was a tough situation for Cubans, and I say tough and not tougher necessarily because it's always been tough. You know, it's the, the system has always been oppressive. The, the human rights violations have always been there. We have always needed more food. There have always been blackouts. People have always needed freedom. So this is happening now, I think for, for very particular reasons. And like Adriana said, you know, we'll eventually find out what those reasons may be or not. I don't think it necessarily matters so much why it is here, but the fact that they have happened. And for, I think for Cubans and, and Cuban Americans and Cubophiles, it's an extremely, extremely exciting, exciting moment. Is it going to, to lead somewhere? I'm not sure. We can talk a little bit about that later. And, and I think Adriana has some, some ideas as well. I'm not sure, but I'm certainly overwhelmed with, with pride. One of those small towns that Adriana mentioned was my town of Bauta. And, and yes, they are small towns, but they do have, you know, they do have access to the internet. I think one of the things that, that surprised me the last time I was in Cuba was the fact that everyone does have a phone. And, and I think Cuban American, Cuban Americans have, have made sure that, that their families on the island are able to have a phone to communicate and, and such. So complex situation, but an extremely, extremely exciting moment with a lot, I think a lot of potential because from this point forward, I don't think anything will be the same. The silence has been broken. People are no longer afraid. And that was one of the chance of people walking up and down the street. You know, you don't get in a middle. They're not afraid any longer. And, you know, what's, what's amazing, they're not shouting for syringes or vaccines or food. They're shouting for freedom. And they're asking that the current, the current person empowered Diaz Canel resigns. And so this is ultimately, I think about that, all of those other things brought it to fruition, but this is about overdue, the overdue freedom. Yeah. No, thank you for sharing that. And perhaps, you know, Adriana, maybe as a social scientist, you can help provide some of the content because I'm working in BC protest movements around the world in Hong Kong and Beirut and Boata. And there's frustration everywhere. People don't like their governments, COVID has brought out a lot of that. But what is it about Cuba that makes it rather, I don't know, a particular, it is a society that maybe doesn't have the same type of civil society that we might see in other areas. I don't know if you might describe that. But on the other hand, back to this issue of the social network, it's clearly they become important platform for artists, journalists, intellectuals to have, you know, opportunities to demand their rights or call for protest. Again, maybe just give us a little bit of what you know to be things that make this place maybe either similar or very different from other contexts. And I'm particularly thinking about, you know, how is it that society is organized or not? Or maybe, you know, these issues, what is it about Cuba that's different maybe from other areas where we see what looks like similar protest? Anything you can share? I think that for one, Cuba has been going through a dire economic crisis that it's been different from what it was before. Obviously, it lost the Soviet support in the 90s. Then it had Venezuelan support. Then no longer. Cuba cannot get foreign loans, partly because it has defaulted in the past. It has to pay them in, you know, obviously in foreign currency and doesn't have access to dollars. And so there's no doubt that the Trump administration strengthening the sanctions has really squeezed them, you know, greatly. Also tourism not going anymore. So a lot of, you know, sources of income, you know, dried out. Then also, I think that the fact that the government trying to sort of alleviate the hardship and bringing hard currency items and opening stores in US dollars, that was a slap on the face on people that didn't no longer have access to dollars without remittances and with, you know, the small businesses that Obama tried to support. So I think that the combination of object poverty with inequality, because you have places where people are very poor, but everybody is very poor. So nobody revolves, right? And so, you know, to see that, you know, a few among them will have access to these items where the majority of the population did not. I think that was, you know, that really fee will grievances. And in fact, Susana mentioned the movement of artists in Havana before it turned into a movement for freedom of expression. It was also against these dual economy. In fact, the second protest that they had planned that never happened was in front of the, you know, the ministry of domestic commerce or I forgot the precise name. So, you know, and I think that one remarkable thing, again, is that this did not start in Havana. This was not a revolt of intellectuals and artists. This was the poorest people in rural areas going out and saying, you know, we have enough. So I see these more, you know, like differently from the Green Revolution and Egypt and so on, you know, like this is not a revolt of the middle classes and the intellectual class. This is more akin to what, you know, the traditional sort of peasant revolts, revolts in the countryside in small towns of people that are in poverty, but at the same time, they see that there is an elite that doesn't live in poverty, right? And so I, you know, so I see that as, you know, as revolts and in fact, you know, I think it was in the Guardian that they were making the point several times that these are leaderless, leaderless revolts. And I think that point is very important because they were, you know, spontaneous revolts emerging in the most unlike, you know, unlikely of places to the point that very often it was really hard to know. Like people would say in such and such town and you would go to Twitter and you would write the name of the town and nothing, you know, popped up and perhaps at some point one person with one phone could, you know, could broadcast what was happening. So I think that this is, you know, like this is different from other, you know, like the Arab Spring or stuff like that. There are also, there's also barely any civil society that will be organized. And so, you know, these revolts obviously undermine the legitimacy of the government, the little legitimacy that these, you know, government has, government has left. And the government might, you know, open up some areas of the economy, although it really doesn't have very much room for movement because it doesn't have money. Yeah. But, you know, but for greater change to happen, there are the conditions that will eventually need to be met that, you know, we are years away from them, I think, like, like, you know, like an urban middle class that it's organized and that it can, you know, that it can dialogue and present also interlocutors. We are also not seeing, you know, the government so far appears to, you know, appears to have a front that is strong, like we are not seeing cracks. You know, we know that there are factions within the government and that there's like hardliners and softliners and there's the military and there are sections that they really want to open up economically. But, you know, we probably see, you know, if there are more changes in the coming months, but so far they are just putting out, you know, a strong facade. So, you know, so this is an erosion, probably the biggest erosion ever. Also, you know, Fidel Castro is not there anymore with his charisma. But, you know, we'll have to see also what the U.S. and Biden is going to do because I think that they can play a role, not obviously not intervention as some people in Miami are demanding, but, you know, many think and I think do that now would be the moment to try to, you know, open up again, you know, leave the sanctions that Trump strengthened. And we'll see what they do. Yeah, well, let me hold you there. We're going to be closing down. The time flies very quickly, but I mean, this has been very informative to understand obviously the complexities, as we've said. Now, we will have to say for another show a closer look at maybe the role of the U.S. because why this is also important for us because Cuba has a particular importance to you politically, but also the large diaspora community. So it's a very real issue, personal and emotional. And so again, we're going to have to close our show for today. But I want to maybe, if I can ask you for a final very, very brief thought. I mean, do you see this as a moment of optimism? And I got a little bit of that from you, Susana. Maybe this is an opportunity. Otherwise, there's a lot of uncertainty. We just don't know how it's going to play out. Well, this features another issue that gets snuffed down. And in a few weeks, it's like, you know, back to normal. Or is this the beginning of really the opening of something bigger? So again, we're at the end of the show. So we'll have to keep it brief, but maybe just some final, final thoughts if you see some optimism or perhaps pessimism and uncertainty. Arianna, oh, no, we're perhaps start with Susana. What can you share? So very quickly, Carlos, I think for me, even more important is, you know, people have asked me what can we do to help? And I think amplifying these people's voices, you know, making sure that we are listening to these videos and letting people know in Cuba that we can hear them. I had a conversation with a friend this morning who told me those closest to the issue are the ones with the solution. And I think getting the people closest to the issue in a room and letting them talk will be extremely important. You know, they've been silent for 62 years. They're ready to talk. Yeah. So yeah, it could be a very opening moment. Any final takeaways that you can share with us? I'm sorry to... Very brief. Got to keep it brief because we're at the very last minute. I like Susana's suggestion for a final thought on what can we do. And on my side, I would say that to, you know, to write to your Democratic senators or to all senators because they are also Republican senators that want an opening with Cuba and press for the lifting of sanctions that the government can do without Congress. Well, listen, I apologize for cutting it short, but we've had a great opening dialogue. I hope maybe we'll have a chance to continue it because this will be an issue I think that's going to continue with us. It is clear that something is going on. And, you know, while we've had a lot of, you know, movements here in the past, this seems to be something different. So let me thank both of you again, an opportunity to get some informed perspective, some personal insights that both of you share. I thank you for that. We're going to have to continue to see. And I think as you at the outset said, Ariana, we're probably going to be dealing with this for some time, you know, trying to analyze and understand because like everything, we don't have the full information, but we're doing our best to understand it. But let me again, thank both of you. Susana Rodriguez Vici recently published her newest novel until we're fish and she joins us writing writing professor at UCLA, both of you affiliated with the US Cuba program. And Diana, thank you again from Lane University. We're grateful to join us here on Think Tech Hawaii. We're going to close on that but look forward to more on the conversation in the coming days. Thank you again. Aloha. Thank you so much, Carlos. Aloha.