 We are live. Hi, it's full house today. We've got two Rogers one Veronica and a Rob Reed Roger is testing out a streaming system. That's why there's two Everyone if you hear any Anyone hearing an echo from me? No Excellent now The only I will be bothered We are going to We're gonna have a lot to cover here. So you guys want to go ahead. Do you guys ready to just go ahead and jump in? You're ready to rock man Sure is Belmont Am I delayed or something? No Okay You were right on time because I said yes, and then you said miss Belmont after I had already said yes No, I was I was delayed. I think To keep Veronica just keep your mic Half an inch away from your mouth Okay, here we go Daily Tech news show is powered by you to find out more head to Daily Tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech news for Monday, July 17th 2017. I'm Tom Merritt Veronica Belmont host of IRL a new podcast from Mozilla alongside because it's Monday That it is she had yogurt and blueberries for breakfast as usual That's how I check sound Tom. You gotta ask people what they have for breakfast It's how you're very consistent in your breakfast choices as I've checked sound with you many times over the years I'm just saying I like yogurt Tom. What can I say? I actually have pretty much the same thing. So good protein I notice Greek yogurt. It's good for you someone who also I'm sure eats a healthy breakfast Joining us today is author of year zero and a forthcoming book after on mr Rob Reed is with us. How's it going Rob? Things are well. I had coffee for breakfast. Ah I also had coffee for breakfast. I am the unifying force between your two breakfasts I also had coffee for breakfast. I'm self-unifying You don't need me All right Well, we've got a lot to talk about including the future of augmented reality some quantum computing and whether we should be afraid of AI Let's so let's start with a few tech things you should know about Samsung pay will begin accepting PayPal as a payment method merchants who use PayPal subsidiary Braintree will also be able to offer Samsung pay as a checkout option. So it works both ways Yes, LinkedIn launched a desktop app for Windows 10 making available as a pinnable live tile and delivering action center Notifications alerts can include messages profile views and more the new app is rolling out in the windows store and will be available in 22 Languages course Microsoft owns LinkedIn. So a lot of folks were looking synergy. Yeah, how this would happen the HTC U11 became the first smartphone to add hands-free Amazon voice service support Unlike the app on the Huawei Mate 9 the user does not need to launch an app to access her the Amazon voice services Assistant person the app is available in the Google Play Store in the US It comes to the UK next month and Germany in August to clarify Amazon is not using her as their artificial intelligence No Scarlett Johansson no fictional AI is being used by HTC U11. She will not be named Netflix announced it added 5.2 million new subscribers this quarter beating its own Expectations of three point two million more than four million were international subscribers Netflix said it had earnings of 15 cents per share on revenue of two dollars and 79. Oh, I'm sorry 2.7 9 billion just almost caused a stock crash there Wouldn't be the first time oh, man Yeah, so Netflix keeps saying look at how much money we're making and stock analysts keep saying look at how many Subscribers you keep adding but it's still good for both. I guess so that's okay Here's some more top stories the BBC reporting that the UK government will continue a plan begun under Prime Minister David Cameron To require porn websites to verify that users are 18 before allowing them to access websites Now we're talking not talking about the pop-up that says click here if you're 18 We're talking about actual verification So sites would need controls like maybe they would use credit card verification or something like that in place by April 2018 or risk being blocked under the digital economy act digital minister Matt Hancock is in the process of Putting a written statement to the House of Commons today Oh, so now kids have to be 18 and have a credit card to look at porn They have to have a credit card that says they're 18 I predict an explosion of credit card theft in the UK. I'm just gonna put that out there A credit card applications. Yeah that too. Yes, and and and birth dates that have been changed No one you should use their proper birthday on the internet. Anyway, we do hear about my space apparently You could recover anybody's my space account as long as you knew their birthday. Oh my god A lot of people on Twitter said well, you shouldn't have signed up with your real birthday Hmm Fascinating Atari released more details on the Atari box a game console that will come with classic Atari games along with quote current content Atari showed two versions of the box one with a wood grain front the other with glass back and red Both new designs playing on the original Atari models. There's an SD card slot HDMI port and for USB ports No other details were yet released Yeah, they're driven and drab in this thing out there saying they want to show it as they go and this design isn't even final They are taking into account feedback from people as they put these pictures out there That's awesome. What is new? What is current content? I don't know. That's what everybody wonders Does that mean a new roller coaster tycoon version or does it mean like an Android store? I it's it's hard to say but it it is smart of Atari to Release this information on the same day that a new Blade Runner 2049 trailer drops where Atari is prominently placed and also in advance of the upcoming ready player one release Which is all about 80s nostalgia Personally, I'm waiting for the next Sega console Don't joke somebody's gonna do that and Sega probably should if they want to rake in a little extra money Choking I was serious about that Yeah, I love Sonic I love Sonic on the Genesis. Oh my gosh That would that would get me right in the fields. Yeah, I the code word is the Sega Deuteronomy So it's it could just be a couple years off just sit tight IBM announced its Z mainframe or for those of you in the UK the Zed mainframe or Canada, Australia Anyway, the Z mainframe can handle 12 billion encrypted transactions a day uses AES 256 bit encryption on 13 gigabytes of data per second per chip Normal Z mainframe has about 24 chips depends on the configuration The upshot of this is it could allow companies to encrypt every level of its network all the apps all the transactions All the things happening internally would be encrypted system can also invalidate all its keys temporarily if it detects an intrusion Stopped the intrusion from proceeding I Wonder if they use Google Authenticator to sign back in Feeling about the name of this thing they're they're kind of decreeing that they've come to the end of computing Aren't like where do you go from Z or is that it's over, right? Yeah, the why mainframe would beg a question Well, the why mainframe is so yesteryear. I mean, this is Z Yeah, I mean, I guess I could run another alphabet. Yeah, the Z1 the Z2 I guess I don't know it is that the name and cliture is interesting But even more interesting is this idea of saying you know what you need to secure network big business You need mainframes you need big computing power and and up till now even big computing power was not Both big enough and affordable enough at the same time to be able to mark it to you But if you're a bank you're going to want to investigate this because the problem Isn't that networks aren't secure on the outside? The problem is that social engineering very easily allows people to get inside the network where things are no longer encrypted. Yeah Bloomberg obtained a presentation slide showing Google is offering science labs and AI researchers Access to its quantum machines over the internet the sides the slides have details of a lab called the embryonic quantum data center That doesn't sound intimidating and an open-source effort to develop code for quantum computers called project Q Earlier this year Google promised that by the end of the year it would prove Supremacy meaning its quantum computers would work as well or better than existing super computers The goal is to spur development of tools with the aim of making it a cloud service IBM and rickety computing offer similar access to quantum computers. So again, we are moving into a new mainframe era here where Things that are big and expensive and hard to implement are now being delivered as services over the internet the other interesting part of this story is This very I don't want to be too spoilery Rob, but this very clearly bears on a part of your new story Where you were quantum computers play into the fiction Yeah, the thing that's fascinating about quantum computing to me in general and also as a storyteller is it's kind of the wild card in the deck um If quantum computing's really start to perform in and you know outer You know kind of out of the the bounds way, which could happen tomorrow could happen in a hundred years and could happen never Um, it really really resorts what we can do with computers If we can get a quantum computer that can really perform as a general computer And now the other thing that's kind of amusing about this is even if we can't there's one thing that we know quantum computers Are going to be incredibly good at which is breaking encryption So the fact that this is announced the same day as ibms jz mainframe, which is equipping everything It's a little bit ironic. Um, but yeah, I mentioned as a storyteller because um, That's when you're when you're setting fiction in the present day It's quantum computing is a great device to employ because crazy stuff could happen tomorrow And it does actually play a role in my book But I don't want to go too deeply into it for the same reason that you said tom It's spoilery Well, according to this bloomberg article robin bloom cohoot a technical staffer at sandia national lab says right now The only algorithms that run for any good on a quantum computer are chemistry simulations But of course everybody wants to crack the cryptography part of this because Suddenly that gives anybody with a quantum computer an advantage And it also allows for stronger cryptography. It works both ways now as far as cracking that your book does Have a good explanation of how that might work That that you've developed after talking to some people who know about this stuff Yeah, and i'm i'm very freaked out to say that I talked to yet another person after I finished writing the book And they they confirmed it and I say freaked out because it really gives me the creeps how this works So for those who don't know much about quantum computing What its superpower is is that it allows every single bit in the system to be both a zero and a one Simultaneously, so to make a simple example if we were trying to crack. Let's say it's an eight-bit key So it's one of 256 answers a normal classical computer might try one Attempt after another and go through 256 attempts and try every possible solution A quantum computer can de facto be in all 256 states simultaneously because every bit in it is both a zero and one at the same time Can crack it instantaneously. That's why quantum computing could be really good at cryptography someday Now what's creepy about this is one asks How does that happen and the answer according to the theoreticians is this um Our computer just tries one key, but meanwhile 255 other computers In parallel universes identical computers are all trying different combinations. Somebody gets it right yells bingo the other computers hear it And they all get the right answer simultaneously. So all 256 of us have suddenly got the right answer. Um now When you ask people you really really push people who are deep in the field. Are you sure that's what what's happening? um The explanation I got back very recently from somebody who's a real expert said there's really two Explanations for this one is this parallel universe thing the other is I don't want to talk about it And there is no other choice yet And um, I kind of don't want to talk about it, but that's what happens in my book and it seems that's what's happening In reality, well and and and if that sounds like crazy nut talk To you that that's typical of trying to understand quantum computing when you're not actually talking about the math Is it sounds like crazy nut talk the problem isn't that we're talking about 256 alternate computers? The problem is can we get eight bits to reliably stay in superposition and read out data? It's not that the quantum theory doesn't work The problem with quantum computers is getting the machinery to work the way to take advantage of that quantum principle At least that's as that's the issue as I understand Yeah, and there's basically two approaches that are being taken right now And so there's a company in canada called d wave, which is the biggest company in quantum computing They've been around about 15 years Their shipping systems that they characterize as 2000 qubit systems 2000 qubits is an enormous number Particularly when you understand that google is playing with 25 30 qubits Now the difference is d wave is taking an approach Which is more like an asyc more like an application Specific ic where the computers are engineered to do very very particular problems things like Quantum annealing cryptography and other things whereas google some other operations in china regetti who has mentioned in that story They're all doing this highly highly perfect thing Which you're talking about where they're trying to keep everything in a perfect quantum state Can be much much more powerful if you make it work But you end up having far fewer qubits for a far shorter period of time and apparently error correction becomes a colossal problem Like you can in theory get into situations where you need a thousand qubits to error correct for a single one So it's still very very hard to make this stuff work All right, if that hasn't blown your mind How about this elan musk told a gathering of us governors this weekend that the government needs to start regulating artificial intelligence like now Musk has been warning about the dangers of ai for a while. You've probably seen the headlines He told the governors quote. I think by the time we are reactive In ai regulation. It's too late Because he believes it is quote a fundamental risk to the existence of civilization now musk is not referring to machine learning He's not referring to siri. He's talking about Artificial general intelligence where you don't have to do the training that the ai sort of takes off and starts learning on its own Some researchers debate whether that's even going to happen whether that's even possible But enough believe it isn't enough or working on it that it has musk saying let's figure this out before it happens if it does Yeah, which is a really frightening thing the only thing that that that gives me a little bit of calmness on this Is that he's taking this to the governors? I'm going to get a lot scarier when he goes screaming to larry and sergay Um, because it's not that much that the at the governor. Okay. You got the governor of Alaska is on this thing, right? Um, but he is he has access the thing that's that's frightening is a he's a lot smarter than almost all of us And b he has access to what's happening and he even mentioned that in the article He said, you know very very You know emphatically I have seen stuff that you have not seen and it is scaring the jesus out of me That's not at all intimidating either lots of not quite so intimidating stories in today's lineup I mean again a lot of it has to do with uncertainty Generally these sorts of things play out a lot less dangerously than than we fear over time But occasionally there is a nuclear bomb that somebody does figure out how to invent And hey, how long I mean he's trying to stop us now while we still have time when things can progress far enough That suddenly it's actually an issue. It's going to be too late There was a lot to talk about that before the Manhattan project, right? It was like what do we do if we create this and then we created it and we're still trying to figure out what to do with it There's an amazing story about the Manhattan project Which is teller and some of the other senior senior engineers Ran an equation and they felt that there was a non-zero chance that the atmosphere would catch fire And incinerate us all and they had it ultimately They reduced the risk of that and they're in their to their satisfaction down to a very very tiny tiny tiny risk But nonetheless they had to proceed with that possibility and they decided that they did because ending world war two Was worth the risk because the risk was de minimis at that point Yeah, but it's crazy to think you know the chances that some have already taken with you know existential risk And musk works with a company that uses machine learning So he is constantly looking at this and he's just a guy interested in that sort of thing, right Folks if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes You can subscribe to daily tech headlines.com and get you all the things you need to know in an efficient package That's a podcast. It's also on the amazon echo as a flash briefing in the united states Working on the uk trust me and it is available on the anchor app at anchor dot fm Also, I want to throw a thanks out to everybody participates in our subreddit You can submit stories of vote on the daily tech news show dot reddit.com I was proud of them today because the annual post that def con has been canceled was submitted to our subreddit and voted up and All five comments were about how yeah, that's what they do every year They say this to you know scare away the people who don't read far enough to figure out what's going on So if you want to see what's going on in the world check out daily tech news show dot reddit.com Let's talk real quickly about something in your book that isn't in today's news But it is often in our news at daily tech news show rob And you have a post up today It's the first of eight posts that are not only articles But also interviews and i'm helping you out with a podcast version of this About issues that you used in your book after on and today's post is about augmented reality Indeed, um, so uh, this is you can see the little lock actually for those of you who are watching at the top of the screen Um, there's actually a link to our podcast. So i'm going to just mention real briefly The podcast that tom and i did Which goes deep deep deep into the issues connected to the technology and science of after on Which is my upcoming novel um is actually available to medium members starting today Most people aren't medium members, but those who are can hit play and hear that thing right now So, um, yeah, so augmented reality is a big topic in the book Um, the first lengthy scene in the book takes place in a san francisco bar Called bermanid branch, which actually exists and this kind of sketchy guy Basically coming up to my main female character in a very creepy manner and unbeknownst to her anybody he's wearing very very advanced augmented reality glasses and he Basically is given enough of an information dump that he's able to feign Sort of a good friend-to-friend connection with her which gets her to take her guard down And um, so that happens in the book the book is basically set in the present day But there's two or three places where I bring technology a little bit forward and this is one of them Um, so in researching that and lots of aspects of the book I was really blessed to have access to a ton of brilliant scientists and technologists And when I was writing the book I ended up embedding all these like kind of in the first draft Don't worry. It's not actually in the book 15 20 page digressions about how cool quantum computing is or synthetic biology or augmented reality And my editor's like no that is kind of lousy storytelling We've got to expunge that which she was right and so my consolation prize is um to myself is to do these eight Really fairly lengthy Interview-based podcast in which we go deep deep deep into the technology and the science connected to the novel so first episode because the book opens where this is about augmented reality and The the for those who can access it the podcast is now up on medium It will be live to the world on august 1st And we'll figure out a way to remind people tom you and I because you're my co-host on august 1st That it's now up as a podcast But the post on medium talks about this really interesting company called meta And I interviewed its CEO at length a guy named maron gribbott's And meta to me is one of the two leading companies at this moment in augmented reality the other being microsoft Microsoft has the hololens which is a very interesting platform meta is now shipping something called the meta 2 There's other companies in the space magic leap down in florida is quite famous for having raised over a billion dollars Unfortunately, they're equally famous for having not yet shipped a product So we don't really know what magic leap is up to a couple other companies that are more optical companies They don't have integrated os's and so forth Obviously apple and others will get into the domain But meta is a really really interesting and important leading company right now And when I what I like about them is they made this very gutsy bet on the enterprise And so maron has actually been shipping augmented reality headsets for three or four years now He did a Kickstarter out of his dorm room and his first customers He called up 400 customers talked to them and found out they were all Interested in productivity and enterprise applications. So the meta one is all about the enterprise and what that means is He tethers it to a computer. He doesn't have to worry about people doing live action role play in the park It's not portable because it's tethered to a computer because he's betting on the enterprise It means that he doesn't have the weight issues. He doesn't have he can have a very very chunky CPU he doesn't have heat dissipation issues He doesn't have battery issues and the result to me I've tried them both The meta to me blows the hollow lens away because the hollow lens is untethered and that's really cool And it's really really powerful and it's important, but it's a much less chunky system So I talk about all of that in the article and then of course maron and I go into that in the podcast as well Yeah And I think what a lot of people might be surprised to learn is that there's an augmented reality company out there That is shipping products being used by companies in their workplace What like you said we hear a lot about hollow lens, but that's a really expensive development kit Not something that the average person can afford or what the average person is going to implement And and of course magically gets a lot of attention for not having shipped things So so really I meta has been flying under the radar for most people Even though it is doing augmented reality and even onto its second version Out there in the marketplace Yes, now there's a hell of a wait list. I think the wait list is in the you know single digit months, but it's a thousand dollars And um in our interview, um, I asked maron quite explicitly is that you need all these peripherals and stuff He's like no you can get going right out of the gate now You've got to know what you're doing when you get your hands on that thing I mean, I think that those who are buying it Are awfully capable at extending it and making it do interesting and powerful stuff But it has a pretty cool user environment. I mean basically ask maron Okay, is meta a hardware company an application company or an os company ultimately and don't say yes Um, and he said, you know, I have to pick one It's an os company and they are creating their own user interface and language of interaction Which I found to be very powerful I mean the thing with the hollow lenses you need to learn this taxonomy of gestures in order to use it And it tracks your hand and it knows okay The guy is now making the open this document or the Click down the menu It's much more natural in meta and they also have this Really wide field of view. It's about 90 degrees Compared to the hollow lenses 45 and that's that's an artifact out of this bold decision to make it tethered Which kind of sucks on a certain level, but having done that it's a much much more enveloping visual environment Well, we got a call actually in from mark who went into a closet To share his thoughts on vr This is the vr headset device that we were talking about last week That might be coming from oculus that is wireless And why he might want to have a portable wireless vr headset Hey mark here from podium recording in a bathroom cupboard. Just a thought on the oculus specific idea I've been looking for somewhere to co-work for a while But because I've got really bad eyesight hunching over a laptop for eight hours a day It's just not something I can do and most co-working places don't let you store a monitor And I don't want to lug around an iMac or something similar every day that I want to go and use a co-working space So the idea of sitting with an oculus a lightweight device on my head That is just a massive screen and being able to sit and work at my keyboard Kind of feels cool. It might be slightly weird for the rest of the patrons of the co-working space Um, but you know, it could be something you just lift off your head and say Oh, yes, I will have that cup of coffee But I really like that idea as Just having a portable screen that can be as big as you need it to be Doesn't need the positional tracking And it's something that you can take with you and work wherever you go Whether you're going to plug it into a laptop or whatever. I think is a really cool idea Thanks mark actually that uh that cupboard recording worked out very well Veronica, I was curious, you know, you've done a lot of co-working spaces Could you see yourself doing this where you just pop on a vr headset to be your display? um No, I mean maybe Gosh, I guess I'd have to use it first to find out. Sorry. I muted myself because there's construction next door in there It's very because you're at a co-working space Because technically I kind of am yeah, no, we're at a permanent office now But I I did do co-working for a very long time It would be nice to use the headset for for privacy It would be nice to feel as though you were in your own little bubble But I I don't know the the extended wear kind of thing I think would would tire me out after a while. I can't be in vr for very long It would depend on how comfortable the the ar headset was or if it was just built into my glasses Rob, I know you do a lot of out and about working. What about you? Would you would you risk the the finger pointing that you would never see because your face is covered by a vr headset You know, I I I need to point out that I do not own a single share of meta stock Because I'm going to sound like a complete shill for the company But I think this is where you know you're talking Veronica's talking about weight And there is the awkwardness about being completely entombed in this thing I'm less worried about looking like a bozo because I got to look like a bozo whether I'm wearing vr or ar I'm a lot worried about taking the thing off and finding out that my wallet's gone, right? And so I think that you know the tethered thing where you have an ar headset first of all So you can see the world around you and be it's plugged into your laptop It's not a completely freestanding wireless thing Obviously long term the ideal is freestanding and like wireless anybody's going to want that But given where we are in Moore's law today, I I would personally rather have a lightweight headset That's really really powerful. That's not completely isolated from the world around me Um and do my work in that domain. So I would vote for something ar ish And yes, I do realize I sound like I'm not a shill at this point. I apologies But he really doesn't own any stock. Uh, so there you go. I really don't I really don't Right, let's uh, let's head back to talking about Amazon voice services in a way that won't set off your amazon voice services It's chris christensen time for our tech in travel minute This is chris christensen from amateur traveler with another tech in travel minute All you travel and tech fans may be interested to know that the amazon assistant She who must not be named that has a new skill compliments of kayak dot com Which lets you track flights Use kayak explore or book a hotel through the afore unmentioned amazon device That sounds pretty cool But my actual experience was that it was better for entertainment than actual utility The kayak explorers a very useful feature of kayak But let's you say where can I go for $500 for instance? Or where can I go for $500 in august a useful feature the voice activated feature? However Only seemed to tell me domestic destinations So I couldn't find any way of getting it to tell me International destinations because the us ones were always cheaper and it only gave me three destinations So not as useful as the website I found the flight search function to be fairly easy as long as you knew the flight number Trying to book a hotel. I ended up at some point playing hotel california Or trying to book a hotel in liverpool, england instead of livermore california My echo doc seemed to know about only two hotels in livermore once I finally got it to the right city While hotels.com seems to know a hundred So I would say it's not quite ready for prime time yet But maybe you could check a flight status on it. I'm chris christensen from amateur traveler Just doesn't want you to leave the country. It sounds like But we'll let him go to livermore california. That is such an unusual destination There must be something amazon has going on there That it is trying to encourage But yes, thank you chris good to know that you at least to a certain point Can use the amazon echo to book some travel before we get out of here We got loads of good feedback on friday's show One of the things I like is when we talk about an issue like encryption And we get reasonable arguments from the other side and we got tons of those Big thanks to everybody who wrote in ned had a few points in favor of helping government surveillance He points out that encryption that most services have doesn't use end-to-end encryption So his point being that Any law that australia is talking about wouldn't affect a lot of these companies anyway Because if it's not end-to-end there are easier ways for them to get at your communications if you're under surveillance In instances like iMessage where a central server is used ned advocates for dual key encryption Where a second key is made for each account that the company could hand over when necessary And we covered some of the objections before on the show about whether you know it can you keep that key safe He said the private company keys do not need to be accessible on a network of any kind As they are only used for decryption when requested by law enforcement This eliminates the security risk of them getting leaked And if you still think this is a risk consider that our public key infrastructure that protects all tls traffic Realize on just a handful of companies protecting their single master signing key That is a much larger risk, but we trust them because of math and a big concrete Uh, uh a big concrete. What did I lost my big concrete safe somewhere? He continues last but not least this leaves the trust no one services They use no central server for key sharing thinks signal This is like a very small percentage of the market and for good or for ill can easily be declared illegal Now obviously criminals will still use these services if they want to be communicating privately But if it is illegal to do so then there will be a reasonable grounds for suspicions So I don't know about you guys But some problems with this is if the keys aren't kept online, which is very good with security, you're right The system can't update the keys easily therefore. It can't maintain forward secrecy Which isn't necessarily as important with with uh with the master system of tls, but it's very important with user accounts That's where keys are refreshed so that old keys might be intercepted can no longer be used It also puts all the keys in one basket, uh, so to speak of course ned discounts that risk So that's fair and as to the last point of encryption not being a service Uh, it is math outlying services in no way stops people from using encryption It just stops them from using those services So if you made signal illegal people would just stop using it it wouldn't be available But the bad guys would just go roll their own There's plenty of open source encryption out there that wouldn't have a second key And I think that's the biggest objection to a lot of these like hey, I've got a way to use two keys That will be safe for everybody The criminals won't necessarily use those systems That was very thorough Yeah, thank you ned for writing in on that Also, john cornell is one of the many people peter wells was another one who pointed out that that prime minister turnbull of austria Australia sorry is a very tech savvy prime minister He owned and ran tech companies including being the chairman of one of the largest early isps O's mail which was bought out by ii triple i net in 2005 john says i don't have a particular ax to grind I just feel his latest stance on encryption is no more than politics to appease a wing of his government And several people recommended reading this post from patrick gray And I will put a link into the show notes to that as well And I think you absolutely should read it if you're very interested in this He does a security focused podcast called risky business and with in this post He lays out what he thinks is the reality behind what's being discussed despite the political rhetoric Essentially, he argues that what austria and the other five eyes countries want is an easy way to share metadata and content across borders While respecting warrants right now, there's not a good system for that He also describes tech companies pushing updates to targeted individuals say by ud id So that that update would not affect anyone else It couldn't be reused and would weaken the security of the target device But not the encryption in other words government authorized trojans So not putting a backdoor into encryption But saying have the tech companies work with government to plant stuff on the devices of criminal targets That's at least one more layer of responsibility In some ways. Yeah, and it does, you know, he's saying look you could do this with warrants It's no different than any other kind of surveillance It's it he's also saying he's not 100 percent certain It's the right way to go But he's like that's where the conversation should be had About where the line between privacy and security is not about weakening encryption I'm really interested in this idea and that's something I haven't really heard about before and I'm sure there are many many Good reasons why it's a terrible idea But you know initially I'm like, oh You know if if the tech companies get a warrant and they have to work with the with the law enforcement I mean they could put restrictions on that data if if it's found that nothing Came of it like maybe law enforcement only has access to it for a very short amount of time Or maybe it's held on the the tech company servers and they can't take it off-site There's there's other ways that they could potentially protect the data Beyond just breaking like you know if they break the encryption that kind of screws it for everyone But if they install a back door that is under watch and they can monitor where the data is going I wonder if that's a safer way of doing it I'm breaking like escrow or something. Yeah. Yeah totally Breaking encryption breaks it for law inviting people too because right again Some people misinterpreted when I said it's math people said no But math allows you to do dual encryption you could have two keys. I'm like, yeah And then the criminals won't use that system So they can go use math themselves. They can they can multiply two prime numbers together And and and make a hard to factor number themselves like that that part of encryption is not difficult So so really what you're talking about is can you can you get to the devices and that's extremely interesting rob? I know there's there's some things about that coming In our podcast and and after on as a matter of fact Oh, yeah No, this whole issue of security and government intrusion and government hacking is a Is a major major theme of it and it's a it's a terrible creative tension because I just did one of the interviews I did as you know for our podcast series is with cindy cone of the electronic Frontier foundation. Um, cindy runs it and is an incredibly Strident and articulate defender of the notion of privacy absolutism And um, you know sort of free speech absolutism And I think what you do get into this question though when when there are authentic concerns on the part of law enforcement and another person I interviewed with sam harris Who is also very much of an absolutist on free speech, but very very concerned about issues of terrorism Sometimes the state does have a very very legitimate interest in accessing things that technology companies could prevent And this escrow idea that you guys started batting around Um, it's pretty interesting. There has to be a Middle way and it is ultimately deeply in the interest of both the tech companies and law enforcement To come up with something that everybody can feel comfortable about and it's got to be out there Yeah, uh, but I like this post at risky.biz slash band math because all my problem with it is I I look at it and I say yes, but that's not what prime minister turnbull was saying That's not what attorney general brandis was saying and until we get their actual bill text Uh, we can't tell whether you're right or not But if he is right if patrick gray is right that the bill will not be as bad as everyone's thinking This is this is a really uh important conversation to have about it So we'll have that link in the show notes as well I'm really it's funny because the most recent episode of iRL that we're doing is on surveillance And so I actually did an interview today with a woman who did a documentary on the um The investigative investigatory powers bill that passed back in 2016 in the uk And kind of how this relates to you know In british intelligence or you know, maybe other intelligence agencies like tracking and and saving data for you know Up to a year and how that affects citizens and they you know, the the uk comes from my Slightly different perspective. I think on a lot of this stuff because they've been so Mired in the the world of cctv for so long and and kind of feeling as though They're always being watched anyway and how that impacts them versus how it impacts people in the united states who aren't Used to that kind of surveillance. It's an interesting topic. Yeah Absolutely. Well speaking of iRL Folks, you can you can go subscribe and and listen and watch uh veronica belmont I'm sorry to listen. I guess at iRL podcast dot org. You can you watch the play button go by You got you've got all kinds of cool topics coming up there and anything else to tell folks about Yeah, I started a new show on anchor called dogs. I've seen today It's also a podcast that you can subscribe to on itunes But I would suggest listening to it in anchor dogs. I've seen today. It's short. It's bite-sized. You'll love it I fully support this as part of my summer of puppies effort on twitter to just make everyone relax for even if it's just one Second every day because you know what tom? I definitely needed to do another podcast Yeah, sure. Why not like it would make sense to do something about dogs for once both of us do Yeah, just more podcasts. Yeah Uh and folks if you liked the topic that was just in the news today, I didn't plan it this way There was definitely quantum computing and ai and of course we're following up on the security news from last week all of the things we talk about on the show Have been turned into a really enjoyable story by mr. Rob read Well, thank you. Yeah, so the novel is called after on it comes out august 1st And if you go to my medium page, which is rob read actually, I'm sorry medium.com slash At rob read our ob reid There's actually a couple of fabulous excerpts from the book that you can find right now And so you can start reading this sucker even though it doesn't come out until august 1st Let me tell you if you wet your whistle with it, you're going to want to read the rest of the story But but go check it out and uh, if you like it leave some hearts that that helps it rise in the rankings Yes, everybody on medium loves to get those little hearts a little recommend It's kind of like a cross between a retweet and a like so it's everything good in one button Go check it out. Like we said medium.com slash the at sign at symbol rob read our ob reid Thanks to everybody who gives a little value back to this show We hope we're always giving you a lot of value and we just ask for you to give as much as you can back That includes james fits patrick tom borte susan just susan. That's fine. We love you susan Thank you for supporting us and everyone who supports us at patreon.com slash dts or through paypal There's people who are like, you know what I can't do the patreon thing for whatever reason But you can support us directly at paypal. That's a daily tech news show dot com slash support Our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com We're live monday through friday 4 30 p.m. Eastern 2030 utc at alpha geek radio dot com and diamond club dot tv Or at facebook.com slash daily tech news show and our website is daily tech news show dot com back tomorrow with mr Lamar wilson talk to you then This show is part of the fraud pants network Get more at frogpants.com diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this That was packed man That was i'm scared about ilan ilan has spooked me man. He's every time he I mean he's does this Yeah Well, I think the problem is you want to dismiss him and go oh ilan you're you're exaggerating But he is so often right about other things Oh, yeah, then you're like, oh, yeah, I forgot you're the smartest person alive. Yeah, or close to it Oh, that's right. You're the person who after nasa spent 40 something years not getting past the moon are going to put us on mars in less than a decade Oh, sure. You can make an electric sports car company work. Oh, sure. You can put rock reusable rockets in space Oh, sure. You could just throw out an idea for hyperloop tunnels Like yeah, it's kind of a good track record. He's got going on so far My uh, my favorite ted moment from this year is okay, so ilan was on He came to 10 a few years ago and he talked about what they called grasshopper at the time Which was the reusable booster and he showed this Stirring that anybody who grew up as a rocketry geek and was infuriated with the Back that we haven't gotten past the moon, which is you know me and I'm sure most of the people in the room He showed this inspiring thing of the booster going up 100 yards and then landing And I almost started to cry it was so cool Now I think it's like four years later and he's landing these things out of orbit and chris anderson asked him about it He's like ilan's like, yeah sure took long enough like he was humiliated that it had taken four years So embarrassed like up 100 years 100 yards and coming down is like he literally was just like oh god It sure took long enough. It's been four years How embarrassing ilan musk Oh, I wish all people born on june 28th were that smart I know you've shared Uh, you know for title, I really like dark redeemers all systems AR go That's good. That's totally good. I love that. We've got some other good ones that are here too, but that's my favorite Beating the Atari out of classic gaming Tar Yeah, yeah want some appeal theory. There's there's one from chum donkey. That's entirely written in binary, which I find it present It's impressive, but I can't mostly unusable largely unusable Don't AI didn't warn you Oh I like it I like it Ilan musk we need laws of robotics now not bad destroy all humans All systems are go. Yeah. Yeah all systems AR go that's that is it the one That's the win are So I don't really are two rogers There are I'm not even joking My god I can't hear you roger Nobody you're trying to talk we can see you twice though, which is something Yeah, one of you is trying to talk one of you is trying to talk the other one is just being very stoic So both being exceedingly roger like yeah The many aspects of roger chang You should take roger if you haven't yet. Are you guys both in la? Yeah Hey, you guys should go to the roger room It's a fabulous bar nice and then you can make roger pick up the tab or maybe they'll they'll host it for you there Yeah, it's uh, it's they'll pick up his tab for him It's quite close to the bevelie center. Um Kind of smack between the bevelie center and the grove and And you don't need roger to get in or you just if you know a roger they can get you in You just have to identify yourself as roger. They don't card. It's one of those bars. Yeah Yeah, i'm one of those carding roger bars where you have to prove your name. Just oh, yeah, i'm roger. Uh-huh roger id's All that stuff. Yeah, and then they ask you the trick question like oh, you're roger What letter does your name start with? If i like when they ask you what your astrologer Yes Uh What that reminds me of bourbon and branch where you have to you have to give the code word to get in With your reservation. Oh, yeah. What's the password? It's uh reminds me that One of the things i loved about reading after on is having been in san francisco during large portions of when your book is written Or where your book is written. I recognize so many things including momos Uh, oh, yeah, bourbon and branch. Uh, i went to momos during the dot-com era So that was perfect and i went to bourbon and branch many times Yeah, i i kind of almost want to have a launch party at bourbon and branch or an after party or something like that Oh, yeah, back in the library. It'd be cool. I actually should do that. Yeah, i got a couple weeks here roger is giving giving tacit consent to everything I kind of hear this faint roger like sound in the background So when he hosts, he just can't talk he can control everything, but he won't be able to Talk earlier. I don't know what happened. I think somebody's not going to get their $15 donation as a result of all this But not yet Oh Should I go now? Um, that's up to you We've probably got another five ten minutes before but whatever you want. I've got the Oh, hey, we hear roger now. Are you sure you want to leave? Oh, it's okay. He can cover for me All right. Thanks to me. I'll see you guys later. Bye. Good to see you Yes, we can hear your roger Now can we not hear you? Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. We hear you You're back Can you hear me now? Yes, we can And nothing nothing we keep hearing. Yes, we can hear you. We hear you. You just can't hear us. Yes Everyone can hear me. Give me a thumbs up. Yes. He probably can hear us. Great. I can't hear you Either one or the other I mean, I understand what's going on. Take your pegs No, I know and this is why when we were talking about the system earlier roger was like Well, I think I can do it all on one system because I have enough power which you're right But always trying to do things on one system causes these kinds of difficulties and they're not unsolvable mind you So I've uh, I've encountered a paradox. Um, I've been hearing you guys heard about this restaurant called itza Yeah I don't know anything about it. That rings a bell. It's the robotic restaurant Here in san francisco. And so it's like there there are no humans. It's like an automaton In light of that. Yeah. Yeah, it's like an automaton. So in light of that Why are they only open seven to five monday through friday? Because there has to be like are these unionized robots? There has to be at least one human around That's why there are but like this is the branding man. Oh, oh no It closes at freaking 3 30 in the afternoon. I was going to go over for a late lunch Do the robots cook the food? Um, well if I were the itza people I would have my customers believe that but it's inconceivable that they cook the food Because they wouldn't be knocking off the 3 30 in the afternoon. That's why they And also yeah, that's what they I guess so but it's like look this is probably you know, it's like they're trying to be The hot new thing. I believe they're venture backed You got to create your mystique here and like all right bite the bullet You should at least be open the same hours of a normal human restaurant Well, I kind of want to I mean seven to five is coffee shop hours Oh, one of them. There's only two one of them closes at 3 30 Yeah, so one seven to five 3 30 that's like starbucks or something well starbucks is open like 18 hours Yeah, no, I'm I'm I'm just dismayed because I was I was hoping to go down and get myself a robotic meal And I was thinking I could squeeze it in this evening, but So they must focus on the breakfast crowd if they're open at seven Yeah, they must they must maybe that's it. They don't want to make dinners Yeah, because robots need to rest. That's what they're skipping dinner. No, it's the menu, right? They can't make they can't get the robots to properly handle dinner. That's right. Yeah, because there's robotic sous chefs or Yeah, you know you gotta rely. Yeah Robots are great with eggs Yeah, it only goes so far doesn't it? It must be something like that. There must be something about dinner that's more complex that they don't want to deal with I wonder what the what's their menu? Can you see their menu? No, I'm looking at it. I got it. I got all kind of looking at him and keep shaped fried eggs I'm just sort of indignantly looking at their hours on google, but it's oddly enough They usually link right to the website and I don't see a there we go All right, can you hear me now? Yes, we can. Yes, we can mother Yes, I can hear you All right, I guess he can't hear us. No, I can hear you. I can hear you. Oh Oh, well, then why are you mother junkering? No, because it took me like 10 minutes. It's just again. You know, I just bring me the mixer Roger gives up fine I life has shown me I was in error. That's just that's what it was worth a try because if because you're you're not wrong If you can make it work easily Then then it's great to have it all in one system like that Okay, I've concluded that the robots are not cooking They are merely dumping ingredients into bowls because they kind of have quinoa bowls and salads That's about it Sell enough of those at dinnertime I don't know. It's very odd strange. Maybe it's vegetarian. It's like why limit your like just go with the robot thing Like isn't that gimmick enough, right? Yeah, but but you can't get the robots to make too much You can't get them to make a nice steak Well, if it rhymes if the name of your restaurant rhymes with pizza Shouldn't it be like almost a legal obligation to serve pizza there just have frozen pizzas that the robot's sticking in an oven, right? My goodness. Yeah, this this whole thing is a terrible disappointment to me It's so much more promise than delivery is what it sounds like But it was named industries top in tech By restaurant business Wait, do they have uh, did did it start just as coffee? Maybe I don't know Because I remember there was a robot coffee place and now I can't remember if that was ita Yeah, I don't think it would have called it. It's if it was just coffee Well, it doesn't make sense, but Uh, because ronika went there Of ronika went to eat some cafe x she went to cafe x That was the robot coffee in san francisco. Did it still exist? Uh, it wasn't that long ago. So it probably does Maybe that's what I'll do instead. I need to get my robot fix somehow Seriously Um, if you go to denny's the chefs are pretty wooden Some would say even robotic So cafe x is uh in the matrion open till 9 30 so less lazy, um Um robots there Yes, looks robotic. I love that's that's pretty cool Except I do like my local pizza an awful lot. I got to do some writing today's though Yeah, I don't think cafe x is a hang around kind of place either Yeah, I like to I do like to do that But cool, man. Um, my writing today is uh, coming up with ingenious, uh question and answer Our tay for our Um for the podcast. Oh good. Yeah. Yeah I am looking forward to that we're going to knock out four of them, right? I believe we will so what I'm going to try to do I think the the forness of our knocking out To create two new words it'll all be about um me turning this around quickly and smoothly So I think what I'd need to do Is get you a good skeletal set of questions To think about and for me to think about for us to say like by tomorrow Wednesday Like yeah, those are good questions And then we have a couple days to sort of gestate on them and then I think it'll be pretty easy because you know We're kind of like 15 minutes Toward the end of each of these things. We've already done it twice. Yeah, um and man our opening How I just can't get over how good our opening is. Thanks for working so hard. Yeah, sure Probably it sounds like a good. Yeah. Oh, man. I don't know the way it sounds Yeah, yeah, and I love that music. I um, I went to the um that music licensing website and um, listen You know kissed a lot of toads there. I got to say yeah, but then I found that song and it's um, it's quite nice No, it's good. Uh, I could play it right now. All right. Is anybody still listening to us out there? Yeah, there are there's there's people talking about how downtown san francisco is terrible for eating outside of business hours It is shall we play? Shall we play the opening music to our podcast? It'll be the world premiere. So this is license free, right? Here's the problem. It's license free. Here's the problem founder of rhapsody Uh, oh no, no, it's royalty. Yeah. Yeah, even though it's royalty free If someone on youtube has used it And entered their entire video into content id I will still potentially have my video taken down Oh, but this dispute it to say no, no, no, this is royalty free music. It is okay for us to play this Uh, oh, so this this stuff that we're on right now. It still goes up onto youtube. So this is not yeah Okay I'm curious I say that I want to do this is an experiment to see if this will if that will happen Well, it's interesting. I mean, I'm I'm I'm ready to hit hit play, but I certainly don't want to be a lousy guest on your So you tell me I've thought it over and yes, let's do it All right Can you hear it? No Tarnet let's hit play So, oh, I guess it's because I I naively thought that it would go over. Yeah Darn it. It won't work. Yeah. Oh, wait. I know how to do this. Okay Let's try this now That's that come through. Yeah. Yeah that came through. All right, so we're gonna try this again. Here we go And this is a special episode designed around the book after all Each of these special episodes focuses on one aspect of the science tech and social issues explored in the novel Now, you don't have to read after on in order to learn from more enjoy these podcasts That's because we waited till the very end to discuss the book in detail And to really tie it to this week's topic That last section will make perfect sense if you're reading the novel But if you're not reading it just tune out at that point you can always come back if you decide to read it later And we'll warn you before we get to that part But first we have a lot of things to talk about which should be interesting to everybody Specifically this week. We're talking about so there we go. Yeah, that's so smooth You'd never know that I recorded that in 15 different locations across several days It wasn't quite that You yeah, yeah The sensors on youtube. Yeah, although because you held up your mic to it. It's more likely To uh to make it past I think To put a video this is gonna be an audio only podcast It's not a big deal But does that mean that I will never be able to put like a video version Yeah, and you can totally put it on and you can keep it up You just have to be ready to deal with doing the counter notice if it happens to do if it happens to run Got it. And how agonizing of a process is that? It's it's only it's it's nothing an ibuprofen can't fix It's really annoying more than I got it Well, cool. Uh, I am uh not off to itza I'm sorry to hear that. Uh, I am I am not off to itza either I'm not going to go off the air. Yes, indeed So thank you everybody for watching say goodbye to the nice people everyone Goodbye We