 but I want to just back up for a second. Deb, you were talking about this confrontation with Shadow and there's a really lovely quote from young in Collected Works 14 that speaks to this. He says, self-knowledge is an adventure that carries us unexpectedly far and deep. Even a moderately comprehensive knowledge of the Shadow can cause a good deal of confusion and mental darkness, since it gives rise to personality problems which one had never remotely imagined before. For this reason alone, we can understand why the Alchemist called their negrado melancholia a black, blacker than black. So when we think about the darkness versus the lightness or the black versus the sunniness of the personality, most of us create a sense of self and a sense of outer personality, outer persona that allows us to seem kind of bright and appealing and congruent with the norms of the culture. And when the negrado, when the Shadow begins to royal, all of a sudden those pretty and nice elements of the personality begin to become challenged at the very least. I'm thinking about a lot of YouTube videos running around of people lunging at rolls of toilet paper. That's become a point of comedy and scorn. At the same time, if we think about being one of those people racing to the shelves to greedily or desperately grab 48 rolls of toilet paper, and then later that day sitting down quietly and thinking, I'm that person. I'm like the person that elbowed the old lady to grab the 48 rolls of toilet paper and scurry them into my car and asking, where do I put that image of myself? And yet, there it is. I'm thinking of a sort of fictionalized case here. You know, if someone who maybe is mid-career and very well established and finds that, you know, partly as a result of the disruption of the pandemic, he falls in love with his colleague who's much junior. And, you know, this has never been something he would ever have thought would happen. And this was never in his value system to cheat on his wife or have an affair. And this is, you know, sort of the wrong thing to do for all kinds of reasons. And yet, he just is sort of tempest-tossed with these wild desires that seem to be propelling him to go in this completely new direction. That is like a negrado place and it has to do with the dissolution of old forms. Things that used to work and hold us up and contain us and give us direction and meaning now suddenly just feel like they've been swept away or they've been melted down. And we're left really confronting ourselves and wondering, who the heck are we? I think that speaks so poignantly to exactly what a confrontation with shadow feels like, whether it's your example, Joseph, of the person that scoops up lots and lots of toilet paper in desperation or greed or whatever it is. And then what do we do with that later? Or your person, Lisa, who has to realize that there's an attraction that doesn't really fit what he had thought was his morality system, of that there's a death of our illusion about who we thought we were that ties into what you talked about, Joseph, the persona of I'm a nice person. I'm good to people. I feed my cat. I do, you know, all these nice things. And then what really we're called to do is when we get home that night or home from the grocery store is to confront that part of ourselves that is not what I wanted to be. I'll look at what I have done of what I have said, this illicit or seemingly illicit relationship, the hoarding of whatever it might have been from the grocery store. That is part of who I am. I think that's the key. Yeah, it's the way that realizing really having to own your shadow just kind of melts you down. It is a real and terrible disillusionment that I am not all those things that I thought I was. And the point isn't to necessarily remonstrate with oneself about, gee, I really shouldn't have done that. The point is to come to terms with that as an internal reality so that it doesn't have to be enacted. And Jung says we all have a thief and a trickster and probably a murderer and all these really dark things within. But if we can give them a place at the table of consciousness, then we are paradoxically freed up from having to enact all these things in the outer world. I agree with you Deb and having sat with someone who, you know, my fictionalized case, you know, I have sat with people going through things like that. And I just want to say that it's easy to jump to, well, if we just give it a place at the table, then we won't have to act it out. But when you're caught in this and you really, really say I want to leave your wife and go have the affair with the junior colleague, you really are suffering it and there is no shortcut. I think an alchemical image that really captures that, and I think it's one of the Rosarium images, is a vibrant muscular green lion that is chomping and eating the sun and saliva is dripping down from its mouth. And that's a depiction of raw, powerful, instinctive energies that have the capacity to take hold of the ego and gobble it down, like sink its teeth into it. That it's not a pretty process, it's not an abstracted process, but it feels like being chewed up by the passion to have an affair with the junior colleague or grabbing and hoarding things because we feel that our survival suddenly depends on it when we've always been a rather refined or elegant person. Any number of other behaviors, and there's this terrible behavior that's happening where if somebody appears to be not complying with social distancing, this vigilante attitude is springing up in communities and individuals are harassing people, like screaming at them if they're not following what the authority figures in the culture are telling them what to do. So this kind of shadow bullying is rising up in the culture. Now, one of the things that we do first when shadow rises is we often defend against it. Oh, that's not me. Sometimes we'll literally forget that we did something because it's so incongruent with our view of ourselves. Sometimes within moments, we're projecting it onto another person and saying, they're the one that's doing it. I didn't do that, but the Negrado begins when we have to put hands on the experience. And if the Negrado is navigated successfully at the end, we can say, I am that. I am everything I have been. But I am also that.