 Because they won't pick up the microphone then, yeah. So there's names, right? So just hit spacebar when you're done, so it's like that. Okay, great. Yeah, when you're done, just advance the slide. So the next person's name shows up. This shows how many times you have to do this, yeah. That goes from two steps, I would be sure. It's okay, you can ring that up. You can totally ring that up. We'll give folks a chance to sit. There's seats, come on in, come on in. Yes. This may possibly be the only session where people are too scared to walk in. I love these looks on people's faces. Like, I'm sure I'm supposed to be here. Yeah, yeah. We'll start on time because we have, there is a possibility of going over. Oh yeah, let's punch the lights. But this is unlabeled, well, then that goes. Okay, great. Okay, this is the imposter monologues volume three. My name is David Sallie. This is imposter monologues volume three. We have eight speakers today and we'll start with Jen Lampton. I'm guessing I'm just supposed to tell my imposter story. Okay, so very early in the world of Drupal, I used to attend meetups at Berkeley campus. It was the only Drupal meetup in the San Francisco Bay Area. We would all sit around a table and ask each other questions. It was like a brainstorming thing where one person would raise their hand and say I have this question and someone else would raise their hand and say I have an answer and then they would get to ask a question and we would kind of do a mind share. And after doing that for about a year, there was someone who was like, hey, this meeting is really fun but I think we should have a camp. And so that year was 2007 and it was the first bad camp and they were like going around asking for like speakers who has any information or whatever and I was just like, I don't know anything about Drupal. All I do is come to these meetings and ask questions. So I am going to run a registration desk because I definitely know how to read names and check things off lists and I can do that as I can do. And I continued to serve in the role of being a like facilitator of other people sharing information for several years until I got hired by chapter three and Matt Chaney in particular is like, well, if you're going to work here, we go to places and we give talks. And I was like, I don't do public speaking. Like I'm terrified to stand in front of groups and I like can't do that. And he was like, well, that's tough luck because this is how we do things here. We are the Drupal experts in San Francisco and you need to share what you know. And I was like, but I'm not a Drupal expert in San Francisco. And he's like, you just flash, we hired you because you are. And so it took a really long time for me to realize that like I knew how to do things and that other people maybe didn't know the same things that I knew and maybe they knew other things that I didn't know but that still meant that I had value to share for other people. So it took years for me to get from the like, I'm comfortable behind a desk to the I'm comfortable talking to other people. And I wish it had been less than that, but so it was. I made notes so I wouldn't forget what to say. I'll just just brief history. I started doing JavaScript in 97, which is a long time ago for me. And I think it started in Drupal until 2011. And I didn't really contribute back at all because I was absolutely terrified of receiving any kind of feedback from anyone. I just consider like all the people that I work with to be the smartest people in the world and significantly smarter than I am. And I always had a hard time trying to explain this feeling. Like I get up on stage and I talk about stuff and JavaScript and everyone's like, yeah, this is great. But I always just felt like I was just faking it, all right. I would like search on the internet and write the thing down and then people would believe me. I don't know if you do. And up until recently I was just like working doing JavaScript a lot for Drupal. And recently I became the third maintainer of Core's JavaScript. And it was like, yes, you know, now I can do it, but it feels like it almost like compounded the feeling of people will find out that every question that they ask me, I actually look up the answer to before I give the answer. And before I like think that it might be right. I wanna verify that. That's all. I just wrote all mine down. So here it goes. I never would have applied to work at Lollabot had my friend not practically forced me into it because I thought I wouldn't stand a chance. Before I reluctantly sent off my application, I deleted all of my blog posts that mentioned any Drupal opinions as I felt like I had no idea what I was talking about compared to all the people I'd listened to on the Lollabot podcast every week. My first day on the job, I flew halfway around the world and was thrown into a client project on site and my coworkers were all happy and confident and I could barely summon the courage to introduce myself to everyone and I sounded like a little mouse. For a long time, I struggled to feel comfortable at work not because I found coding tasks particularly difficult but I constantly worried that I wasn't doing things the correct Drupal way and now I had a lot of expectations on me when I was introduced as Sally from Lollabot. I felt like a useless noob around the bot side. I idolized like Eaton, Angie, Nate and Matt and Jeff but fortunately I have very supportive and encouraging coworkers and slowly I became more confident in my own abilities maybe a little too much sometimes. But in particular, I'm very grateful for Jeff Eaton who always went out of his way to make me feel like my opinions mattered. I wish that was a nice short story about how I overcame it under confidence but when I step out of my work bubble into community events and conferences for PHP, Drupal or JavaScript, I still feel very out of place. The first big conference I ever went to was a PHP event a long time ago now before I was a Lollabot and feeling lost and looking for something in common with anyone there, I asked a group of people about the women's group that I'd heard mentioned in a few places. Oddly the group was mainly men and I was told by the members of the group that they had meetups and it was a fun opportunity for them to try women's activities with the women in the community like knitting. Not being much of a knitter, I didn't feel like this was the group for me and I floated through my Zen framework job for a while not ever really feeling that I'd connected with a community that made me feel like I didn't belong there because I was neither good enough to discuss technical issues nor feminine enough to join in with the so-called women's activities. I got more involved in the Drupal community which was a slightly better experience despite me having to constantly tell people I'm neither in marketing nor project management but to this day as a very experienced code monkey assumes quite rare that I get asked to do something without immediately being followed by because you're a woman. Hey Sally, we'd love you to speak at our conference because you're a woman. Only recently, thanks to a support network of amazing women and other marginalized groups and allies have I felt like what I have to contribute to open source is meaningful. I'm happy to report as of 2016 my hands don't shake too much when I talk and I don't feel like I want to throw up immediately afterwards. Recently I've been more involved in the JavaScript community and although I feel more included, generally I'm still nervously wandering around conferences like a newbie. Yeah, my name is Demi Wiener. I started really early with Drupal in my entire career. Yeah, like one thing, like I worked together a lot of great people on DuBlade and like, I was like really like flattered when it was released but then like the adoption rate didn't really like took off as many people expected and like I was like super sad about it. I realized why I didn't really had a proper job 2015 and like I just spent like all my time and like had this idea when DuBlade is out everything will be fine. And then like in retrospect, well everything worked out but yeah. But then like I talked with people about that feeling and like people told me actually, hey, there are so many good things about that. Like you met like a lot of people and I totally agree that I met like the most amazing people in the entire world. It's just mind blowing. So like I remember when I was in Sega 2008 and was talking with basically no one and these days I don't have a problem with talking with people. Like yeah, it's just amazing what Drupal provides me. Yeah, and even like this year even launch decided with DuBlade. So I'm like just amazed, but trust, yeah. I've always had problems with, I'm now looking at Drew's questions by mistake. Oh no, he's gone. Okay, let me know if I'm fine. Okay, so I suffer from imposter syndrome all the time. All the time. Hey, I even have imposter syndrome going to the bathroom on occasion still so that's just life. Thinking more about Drupal things, I remember going to my first Drupal camp and being scared of walking in through the door and having to deal with the fact even as an attendee, I didn't feel I was all that kind of up to being in a room. Drupal seven camping leads. Goodness knows how many years. And it's exactly the same feeling that I was feeling on stage this morning actually feeling sick. But it kind of worked out in the end. And I think that one of the things that got me through that is always knowing that I've got friends in the audience, people that I know care for me. So it kind of makes it okay. And sometimes, yeah, I'll wing it and do silly things and get away with them. An example is there's a really strange coincidence. Am I okay to mention? Okay. There was, so Sally earlier, we were talking about something that she's not had a chance to mention, but she was going to say that she felt that she went to a Drupal camp, what was called Drupal science camp in Cambridge on the science park in Cambridge years ago, too long ago, we should do it again. And she was fearful about being, was it a first time speaker? Okay, and then she met this person who appeared to know completely what was going on. Well, the person who appeared to completely know what was going on actually had ended up organizing this camp, not really thinking about it because she's an idiot. And it was me. And I was seeing the speakers that had booked coming in and thinking these were like these, oh my God, people. And Sally was one of the biggest, oh my God, people that I'd heard of in the community. So we, and we went and just literally just before this talk found this out that we both had completely placed each other on some ridiculous pedestal that we couldn't meet. It's ridiculous. We do it all the time. Thank you. Hi. So, eating slacked me last week. And I told you that I don't really feel like I should be talking about imposter. And then you told me like, yeah, that's what everyone says. So, I think that's good. I usually feel quite confident. So, I felt like I should rather, for me, this was an opportunity for me to reflect about privilege because I think I have a lot of privileges and that allows me to not end up in imposter situations that often, but at the same time it also pressures. Like you kind of wanna be successful and you wanna stand up to those high standards that we kind of have a picture of everyone in the community, like just as you've just mentioned of having of each other. So, yeah, that's kind of some thoughts around that. I really, really struggled with committing myself to something on a long time period. So, taking decisions is really, really hard. And so that, for example, also was really hard to go into a team lead role, for example, in Drupal. But along the way, I found out that it always gets better when I take decisions. It's kind of weird, right? It doesn't have to be perfect, but when I take small decisions, can even, after them, I will be able to reflect much, much more than what I spent my energy in worrying about what could possibly go wrong because, yeah, you wanna make it perfect, but I think in the end, for me, perfectionist turns out to be more and more agile. And in order to do that, I have to take decisions and like start, like commit to a relationship, commit to a team, commit to anything. Doesn't have to be forever, but that really, really helped me get more confidence in what I'm doing. So, yeah, that were my thoughts around the imposter. Thanks. Hi, you stole my opener, so thanks. Just kidding. So I had the exact same feeling. When I was asked if I wanted to be a speaker, I immediately said yes. And then I went, no, no, no, no, because like, why should you even be up here? There are so many other people who could tell a better story than you and they're gonna be more prepared than you and they're gonna do, you know, give better advice than you and like, you're just not qualified. So I feel in good company, at least, some of the people who spoke here today because I have the exact same feeling. But I said yes, and I said yes because I had a story in mind when I was asked. I was like, I know that feeling so well and I have like a quintessential moment of it. And my moment came when I wanted to, I was at my first con as well, I see a trend. It was 2011. I had joined a small agency called Blue Spark and I was just starting out. It's my first Drupal conference and I was all excited and starry eyed and I said, okay, I'm gonna go do something because these people are awesome and I love them all and I wanna do something. So I was a project manager, a non-technical one. So naturally I decided I'm gonna go work on core because that's easy, right? So I walked up to Angie and I was like, hey, do you think you need a project manager? Do you like need help or something? And she was like, hmm, I don't know, but yes, let's figure it out. You know, and Angie being who she was really fostered me through that phase of getting there and then realizing, holy bleep, I know nothing about any of this and I am the biggest fake that ever walked the planet and nothing I will do will ever be of any value to anyone because I know nothing. And she was there and then Jess was there and then Gavar was there and then Larry was there and a bunch of people, Greg was there, looking right at you, like a bunch of people were there just saying, oh, that's useful, oh, that's helpful, oh, I like that. This is an idea, that one sucks, but this one is good and they all helped me through that process. What I learned throughout that process and what I feel like I'm still learning every single time that I try something new is that I don't have to know everything and that it's okay to suck for a little while, but then you better be good. And if I was going to give some advice, I would say that this advice has come from several places, but notably people that I know at Acquia, I'm looking at Jen, I'm thinking about Dries himself, I'm thinking about Angie, Rena, people that have supported me throughout my career at Acquia, I think have helped me overcome this the most. And so I'm gonna share it. First, know your place and know your sphere of influence. To understand if you fit somewhere and where you can have levers of impact is incredibly empowering and I've gotten a lot of really great advice from Acquia in this regard. Keep it small and keep it in front of you. So if you're feeling insecure about something, having small wins is really great and really helpful to move your meter forward. Get a mentor, it's a really good one. Angie was mine for a long time, just she didn't even know it, but she was like a little beacon over there and I was just following her going, that's good, I should do more of that. And be reciprocal. So when someone helps you, help them. When you get positive feedback from someone, give it back and always remind yourself of the good things that you do so that you can reinforce the lacking of confidence that you have by, oh, I just did that well. Even if it's saying it out loud or in the mirror or whatever, it's always helpful. So that's what I learned and thanks. I didn't expect us to turbo through this so fast. We actually might do questions. I've organized this thing three times already and I've declined to speak in it every time and when I lacked an eighth person and nobody else wanted to be the eighth person, I bit the bullet and decided to share a story. And then I wrote it all out last night when I had a fever and a sore throat and it was amazing and it seemed amazing when I wrote it. And then I read it this morning, I'm like, that's like four stories and like there's like no point. So I'm actually not gonna read that. There's this question that as an Asian American immigrant, I get asked a lot and Preston has shared this as well. Where are you from? And I say San Francisco. And then the next question is, no, where are you really from? I'm like, no, I grew up in Florida but that's not the answer they ever want, right? Like they wanna know where do your genes come from, right? And where was the place of origin from your parents? Where are you really from? What are you really? Cause it's not a Californian and it's not somebody who grew up in Florida. I'm a first generation immigrant from Taiwan. I'm happy to say that, but it's also not really who I am. It's just sort of a fact. So we'll table that and go to the real meat of the story. It comes back, I promise. It's like, you know, game of thrones. The twist comes at the end. When I started out in my career, I was what you would call an angry front end developer. I was angry because I worked with a web manager whose web quote unquote development was done completely through Dreamweaver. And we'd have long arguments about the value of writing CSS. This was a while ago, as you can tell, writing CSS versus having table based layouts that were pixel perfect. And I was angry that the director above us in my eyes was a complete fucking fraud because when is the last time he wrote code? What is he doing telling me how to do things? And he doesn't know shit about the internet. And I'm in this web team. And I was angry. I was angry. I was out to prove everybody wrong. I was about filling my brain with all this knowledge to show these people around me that they were frauds and this is the real way to do it. This is ironically before I got started in Drupal. And the weird thing is I ended up building a lot of crap in Drupal. Drupal has been very productive for my career but I haven't been able to really shake the feeling that because I'm using Drupal and not writing everything by hand and not building things from scratch that I'm essentially cheating, right? Like I'm a web developer or I was but I cheated the entire way. I took somebody's homework, I copied 90% of it and I put the 10% that was special on top and then they paid me like I did all the work. Holy crap, right? Like this cannot be like how it's actually done, right? You know, like I just served you microwave pizza and you loved it. Right, so that feeling of that I somehow cheated in my career to where I am now has never escaped me and in fact, you know, pervades right now because every time I read an article on Hacker News or I read release notes of a library that comes out and like this amazing, you know, work that comes from, it seems like the mind of God to your fingers and you know, there's this amazing library that you guys put together from scratch. You know, all I've done is, you know, I've built websites from parts, you know, like I ordered the model kit. Now I'm not a bespoke, I'm not an artisan, I'm a line chef, right? Using Costco ingredients. Okay, don't talk about that. Yeah, well. So my last career change ended up being into management so now I'm somebody's fraudulent director and I don't write any code and I tell my engineering team how they need to, you know, keep their feelings in check and how they need to play well with others and yes, you know, that might be the right technology but we have a bigger role to play and the irony of that is not lost on me and I have one great sympathy in my previous boss that I in my mind, you know, crucified over and over again in the years that I worked at that job and I wonder for all the angry developers in my team who are too, you know, who haven't expressed their, the anger that they hold close to their heart about yes, we could do great things but for the frauds that lead us and what they think of me now because I feel double the fraud in that, you know, I ended up exactly at the place that I derided so greatly before and now I find myself in that position and I ask myself every day like what, how do I channel the person I used to be into being the better person now especially since I feel, you know, completely unqualified for this position in every way that I thought my previous boss was unqualified and along the way, you know, after having built so much in Drupal, you know, I still feel like I've cheated and that the things that we built aren't legitimate even though they power businesses and organizations that do great work with these sites, you know, they feel like ill-gotten gains because I didn't take the quote-unquote hard way to build them and I don't, and you know, one of my best friends in Drupal, you know, did a session in Baltimore overcoming imposter syndrome, you should see it. Heather Rodriguez, Kat Kool and Sarah, Sarah Thrasher did that one, it's on YouTube, you all should watch that, it's very, very good and she and I had this argument for a long time that is imposter syndrome something that you can overcome because, you know, if you were to ask me now like to examine my career, you know, and ask me, you know, like, what do you do? Like, oh, yeah, I'm a, you know, I'm an engineering manager at an insurance company and you know, and you're press making it, no, no, what do you really do? Oh, well, I work on budgets, I fire and hire people, I talk to vice presidents, I, you know, manage up as much as I manage down, I don't really write code anymore, nothing in my resume suggests that I should be good at this or that I would, you know, be even the right candidate to hire, thankfully nobody asked that, they're much more interested if I'm from Taiwan or not. And I don't think I'll ever be rid of this feeling, I don't think there is any overcoming imposter syndrome, I think as you move through your life you have new things to feel fake about and, you know, every achievement or thing that gets credited to you feels fake in some way and I'm okay with that, sort of. The one thing I have noticed though, and I don't have that much more to say, is one thing I've noticed for being a fraud for so long is I'm good at seeing the fraudulence in others, or at least I think I am, and I'm also good, I've also been able to detect when people think they're frauds but they're not, and that happens, you know, I mean, that happens to everybody, but I've ridden the Drupal ladder to a decent amount of professional success. I've gotten a career out of, you know, building things that I never thought I'd be able to build, work with teams and already been able to work with, travel the world and make friends all over the world because of this, and I'm never gonna be rid of the feeling of fraudulence, but I can at least help others shed theirs, and at least for me, this series and all the stuff that I try to do in the community that isn't code related because God knows I can't code anymore, it's all been sort of to pay it back because like I might be a huge fucking fraud, but I don't care what you say, you're not, and I'm gonna try to help you overcome that because you're not really a fraud, I know I'm a fraud, I know that, right, but you're not, right, and if you persist in believing that, I will help, you know, I will try and do what I can to make you feel less of one, and yeah, that's me. So, God, so apparently Americans really love to talk and Europeans are like, just get it over with, you know? I'll have to remember that. I thought eight people would be enough, but next time I'll make it 12, geez. We have a lot of time. We do, let's get people up, please. Up, yes, come up, come up, Shannon, come up, come up, come up, come up, Shannon, come up. Come on, we can do this. I talk more than anybody, I'm done talking. I sort of put a question out there. So I applied to DrupalCon for a long time to speak and didn't get to speak for a long time, I've spoken a few times now, but all the times that I was speaking, I was hearing that, you know, that it was trying to be more inclusive and trying to pull people in and I would continue to see, go to DrupalCons and see people speaking like three times, and I still see that and now my friends are speaking three times and I really feel like if we're trying to help people not feel like imposters, you know, we should, like, what can we do for that person who's wanting to be a part of and coming to DrupalCon and saying, hey, you know, I thought I proposed a pretty good session, you know, I was, I've seen blog posts about not trying to have multiple speakers do the same session multiple times or have multiple sessions at one DrupalCon. Like, I feel like we could bring people in if that didn't happen as much and it feels like it, it looks like it happens a lot. And I feel like when I, I got a, like I joined Acquia and I got a session the next DrupalCon, you know. Total coincidence. Total coincidence. But if I wasn't me and I saw that, I wouldn't feel like it was a coincidence. I mean, I feel like it's a coincidence, but I would, I feel like the perception of somebody else looking at me would also feel that way. So it feels like. Yeah, that's some nice imposters I'm calling on right now. Yeah, I feel bad about what happened this time. I think one thing we could do is like, in case someone has an idea for a session, don't present it, but rather find someone out there who could also present the session and maybe like be a co-presenter or like sit in the first queue and like help and have on the questions or something like that. Maybe that helps, I don't know. That's a good idea. In the PM track, what we try to do and I think this is a good idea for all the track curators is to think about the experience levels of the people that are speaking and not just what they're speaking about. Whenever we picked people, we always tried to have at least a new face, one or two. And we felt like it was really important to get new blood and new ideas and there's enough talent in this crowd that we felt like we could do that. So I would highly recommend to other track chairs and curators of content that you consider letting some new people into your little program. But, I'm gonna preface this with one thing. I think that we need to help them and we need to do maybe a little bit better job of maintaining the quality and during the sessions that were run by the community. Thank you guys for doing that. That was something that came up. So I would task this community with coming up with criteria and what would you like for speakers to have in terms of validating their content and what are your expectations? That's a really great contribution that you could make to get more people on stage with high level quality content. Yeah, maybe one idea. So we started putting an emphasis on diversity for sessions and I think as we now collect also the data maybe we can even look into it more actively and set some goals for the next time. I have for example an example in my track where I have a speaker that speaks also in other sessions and yeah, I think next time maybe we should just really try to avoid that. Yeah, and I think we should take more time in as we ramp up for the sessions proposals. Like it felt like we could have taken more time to get more submissions from a more diverse crowd. Take more time to reach out actively. Yeah, just I only spoke at my first triple con because David reached out to me and was like, hey, you seem to be doing some stuff, you should apply. And I think maybe the first time he did I was still too scared. And then the second time I actually did. So thanks David. I've talked to Amanda Gonzer in the back program manager extraordinaire of triple con about this. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a lot of things we can do structurally like we've said here. And I think I want to put this challenge in front of everybody in that if you have spoken to Drupal con a bunch of times you should give up your spot and find somebody to take it. I think the challenge is up to people to not hog their seats and let everybody else have a turn at the table and to raise somebody up to succeed you. I think that's something that's doable for everybody who has spoken to Drupal con before. And if we had a culture that was more willing to do these kinds of things, the kind of mentoring pipeline that that would naturally build would be tremendous. And I think that's what we should do. Hi. Okay. I have a question. So we're talking about imposter syndrome and we see it's super common. Every one has a story or two or four. And I wonder, because we are giving advices, individual advices about how can we overcome personally the imposter syndrome. But I wonder if we could do something as a community in our working context or... So in five years from now or 10 years from now, this is actually not so common. Do you think there's something that we can do? I think it's an unfortunate inherent part of the human condition. It's like, will we stop feeling sad? I don't think that's ever gonna happen. Wow. Yeah. Well, okay, Rachel's gonna contradict me. No, I'm not actually, but I'm good. I think we're never gonna stop feeling this way but we can give people reasons to question why they feel that way. And the opportunity to... The worst thing to do is to have that person feel it in isolation without the support of others or at least the understanding that others are going through it too. And so at least if you can feel with confidence that we're all in this together, that's better than not. I don't know if it's that you can stop imposter syndrome. I think it's more of a case of all feelings not something that you stop, you just learn how to manage them, be that imposter syndrome, be it grief, be it anything. You don't get over them, you just learn how to manage them and that takes time and it takes kind of effort. And maybe something that we could be doing is spending time talking about how we manage imposter syndrome. Well, somebody else, not me, obviously. But yeah, it's not something you get over. It's just something that you learn how to put to the side while you get on and do things. I'm looking at the mentors in the room right now and I'm saying you guys are a part of the solution and keep doing what you're doing. And don't open your eyes a little bit if you're having imposter syndrome and look at the people who inspire you and what they're doing and try and find how you can do more of that because just having, I found someone, a mentor to help me and someone to look at and say they're doing it, they weren't always an expert, just brings down the feelings of like, I can't do this, really tempers that for me personally. And I feel like thank you to Kathy and to Jess and to other people who really do a lot for the community to shepherd the people through their knowledge growth. And I feel like that's very empowering and we should get everybody doing that as much as they can. So sprints are Friday, right? Plug. Ask her. Rachel and everybody, you started some of that too, so looking at you two. Rachel is gonna be there and I'm gonna be there and we're gonna help you guys and let's do more of that as a community to grow people's confidence in their skills and their abilities. I didn't say that. The mic is yours. Thank you. Thank you for sharing. This has been eye opening for me. I look up to a lot of people that do talks. And I'm really happy that you shared this because I had no idea. I'm kind of stunned actually. Well, cause like a lot of people that come and talk are larger than life, right? They seem normal sized from here. Whoa. I mean the knowledge that they share and the enthusiasm which they share it, you kind of make this judgment like yeah, they must be spending tens of thousands of hours like figuring this out and being an expert and I think. How does they do? Huh? Yeah, sometimes they do. I read that people who are high performers are often imposter syndrome sufferers because they feel like they can't do it and so then they try and go and learn all the things so that they can look not like an idiot. I feel that way all the time. So what you said is true. Sometimes they do spend inordinate amounts of time learning things just because they're like, I don't know anything and I'm a moron. That's fair. Thank you. This was excellent. Well, if I may. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm an imposter. Now I was drawn to this session because I am an imposter. I only work at the front end. I'm one of two people who make websites at the National Library in the Netherlands. We have some IT people who take care of the rest, all the server stuff that you do. But I don't code for that reason. I'm also going home on Thursday night because what am I doing on a sprint? But it's kind of interesting because the question came up what to do with the DrupalCon as an experience and I feel that front enders also should have some place in the whole thing, but I'm not sure myself how to solve that issue. Do you have any views on that? I'm a site builder. I'm not a coder. I get away with it, really. Yet I have... Actually, I don't know how many issues I've been credited with now. I think it's about 30 on Drupal8. Something like that. I know a lot, but when you look at them, it's bits of code, bits of, weirdly, because I really don't know it, actually a little bit of front end stuff. And I usually farm that out to friends when I'm working with clients because I'm like, oh no, I can't do that. But actually, some of Drupal8's CSS I did, which is weird. And it's all because it's all little things. It's only doing tiny things. And maybe that's part of one of the things that's a real magic of coming to the mentored sprint is you only do little things. But every time you do a little thing, you learn a little thing. And I've never been officially talk coding. I kind of guess and sort of make mistakes. And people like Kathy and a lot of the core committers and other people check my code and say, no, no, it's not quite like this. But I learn. Doing little things is how you learn. And anyone can do that. Anyone can do that. And yeah, give it a go. Maybe not this time, because if you need to get that flight, that's cool. But next time, the biggest learning experience you will have on a DrupalCon will be Friday. I guarantee it. Peace for everyone. I also feel like front-enders, I think maybe experience this more where you come into a conference with full of all these people that you think do all of this crazy stuff on the back end and know things that you don't know. But everybody starts on the front end. And it's something that like HTML is the language of the web. That's the thing that is universal, whether you're doing Drupal or whether you're doing anything else. Like that is the starting point. That is the language we all have in common. And I think that a lot of people come into Drupal feeling inferior because that's all you know. And they're like, oh, I'm only a front-ender. But like, if you look at the people who are most prolific now in the back, they all started there too. And it's just a language that you have in common with the rest of us right now and the longer you're here, you'll learn more stuff. Whether it's stuff about views or stuff about dependency injection, it doesn't matter. Like right now we still all speak this language because you know that. And that shouldn't decrease your value or your self-worth just because that's what you know now. Like that's fine. That's plenty of us who do front-end stuff all the time. That's how we can communicate. That's where we can find issues for you to work on and find your place in this community too. So I would say anyone who's a front-ender who feels like it's only a front-ender, don't look at it that way. That's just a skill you have and we can all benefit from that too. Maybe just a quick thought. I feel like there's a lot of initiatives in the Drupal community that are really getting a lot of stuff done and they usually don't consist of this group of only back-end developers or this group of only front-end developers. But usually the most effect we get out of diverse group of people from UX, that have management skills, people that have coding skills and then figure out solutions together. So I would encourage us to think about Friday, not just code sprints, but actually just as a community work on initiatives together. Okay, so Shannon, you said something that really struck me here. Where can I read that? Because I need to read that book. The one that you said, or something that you read that people that don't know enough, or think Wikipedia. Wikipedia? I really need to read that. The book was called Wikipedia. Okay. No, I did that thing where like, oh, I don't know what I'm supposed to talk about. Let me go Google that. And I'm sure there are tons of smarter references on there than just Wikipedia and that you should look, Google that, and then look at the Wikipedia references because that's where you'll probably find more about the research. Okay, so probably a lot of people suffer from that and they don't know about it. Is that it? Yes, they have a description of the symptoms if you're wondering, if you are a sufferer. You can read. Sounds like you might be, I'm just taking a wild stab. You're like, do I have this? If you wonder, you probably do. So yeah, so sometimes I feel I don't know about something. Then I'm really dumb about that and I go and stay up all night just searching, investigating and finding out like stuff that you don't even learning in the university. Like people have that. How do they go to that knowledge? So I have that question a lot of times. Okay, thanks. Okay, we have now managed to use up all the time, thankfully. The original goal was to have it all, no questions. So these people wouldn't be put on the spot but now they have been. That was not part of the part. I told them no questions, so I lied. Really, wow. Okay, well, there is one thing. 10 more minutes of questions. Are we still doing this? We're doing this, right? Okay, if you like this talk, please rate it. We always appreciate ratings and it'll make these people feel a lot better too because I will share with them the rating. It's clearly making that we are all terrible. Yeah, yeah, because it's gonna be like one star, right? No, please rate us. It's on the session page for the talk. I really appreciate it. Are there any more questions? Anything folks wanna share? Really just wanna go to the social. All right, thanks for coming, everybody. Yeah. Good photo. Good photo. Yeah. I mean, if you're ready. Oh my God, Cathy. Hey, Gryll, Gryll, Gryll, can you vlog it again? Yep, do you need me? Yes, because she wants to touch that. Yeah. That was great. Thank you for both. I let out a secret that I look everything up. No, no, wait, that's so cool. Is this, do you want this on the screen? Yeah, that's what Cathy wanted. Well, I don't know how to use a computer. I'm gonna do my head for the ball. No. How do I use a computer? Just like stand like, stand next to me. Is this, no. The hair will just blend together. Whoa. How long did it? Yeah. To the end, to the end, to the end, to the end. No, to the beginning, to the beginning. The first end, it's like one. The beginning. The first end? Who are you? Apparently one that can't describe locations. Index zero. Look at that. Daniel, I can't see you. How many pictures have you taken already? I find that was intentional. I didn't know. I don't see you. Wow. Do it, though. Yeah? Yeah. Come on, Tally, come on. Tally, how many times are you gonna get a picture with all the people? A bunch. Yeah. Nothing else. Making sure how many pictures we're all in all the time. Did he get the hands of me? You don't point to me at this. All right. Okay, we're fine, we're fine, we're fine. Okay, we're good? Yes. Thank you. You really wanted to close my computer. No, I was just doing it for you. Thanks. Rachel, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. David, I didn't mention that you asked four of the people for us. Oh, wow. That's good. I don't think I've ever been more nervous to speak at anything than this. Yeah. Hi.