 And we're back with the breakfast and plus TV Africa will look at our second conversation here. Nigeria plans to combat climate change by introducing carbon tax. Well according to the federal government they are expected to set a price which emitters like you and I will pay for each tonne of greenhouse gas emissions. Nigerians government is set to introduce that carbon tax policy and budgetary system for the country in line with the approval of energy transition plan as part of Climate Change Act. President Mohammad Buhari had recently approved the energy transition plan to be driven by the National Council on Climate Change that's the NCC in accordance with the Climate Change Act of 2021. So a carbon tax or tax on greenhouse gases would come in two broad forms the emission tax which is based on the quantity and entity produces and a tax on goods or services that are generally gas you know green gas intensive such as the carbon tax on gasoline. Now under that arrangement the federal government is expected to set a price which emitters would have to pay we talked about that a tonne of greenhouse gas emission. Now apart from that the tax would help to generate revenue for the government which will encourage consumers to take steps to switch fields, adopt new technologies and reduce emission to avoid paying the tax. So while the NCCC had sought and obtained the approval to initiate key deliverable content in Climate Change Act including establishing a carbon budget for the country according to them carbon budgets is now going to provide allowance for every entity whether the government or private sector in terms of how much emission one is allowed to you know put out there exceeding dose emission could also attract penalties and this is you know some of the approvals or deliverables that have been sorted out. We have Maja Kudumi who is very passionate about the environment he joins our conversation this morning. Maja Kudumi is good to have you join us good morning. So I'd like to share your thoughts on you know this development by the Nigerian government I'd like you to juxtapose that with our capacity to renewable energy how far we fend with that. We have tremendous amount of potentials for the for the renewables absolutely no doubt about that I mean we're talking about abundant sunshine, great wind, tidal waves, we've got it but the constraint is the lack of economic incentive because right now it's not very profitable it's far more profitable to be using the fossil fuels but the reality has you know dawned, it's set in, there's no ambiguity about it. It's as simple as you know two plus two equals four and if you're denying that then you know you need help. So the reality has set in that we can no longer continue poisoning the atmosphere the way we are if we want to have a reasonable kind of life in the future because climate change is a powerful force and we're seeing it manifesting all over the world now in Nigeria we've been fairly lucky despite some of the terrible floods that we've been having we've been fairly lucky it hasn't impacted us as badly as it has in other countries but if we continue this way it certainly will. So it's a very very laudable decision in terms of transiting to renewables no we're not doing enough the time has come this is unprecedented humanity has never ever faced this type of situation before in the history of humanity this is unprecedented where the whole world has been threatened by a particular situation. So I like us to talk about this I mean just as Kofi comes in now it's very valid we understand you know the challenges of the our environment climate change and the impact we're feeling it and everybody feels it every other time. So I'd like to ask you if you think that the introduction of taxes on I mean we're going to be taxing ourselves for emitting carbon into the society when we don't have what it's it takes for us to not use you know physical and what policy environment does it make sense I'm just trying to ask if this is rational have we put in place the necessary facilities what we need to transit? Yeah that's a very insightful observation of the situation on ground it doesn't take long to be honest it doesn't take long I mean I personally tried to introduce solar panels for rural areas decades ago but there was so much resistance it doesn't take long but you see the situation is it is so dire and you know your opening statement was that you know we are understanding the negative impacts we're having on the environment well I wish this was the case we're not it's like the situation is like you're in your studio right now God forbid and there's a small fire starts in the ceiling you can smell the smoke and everything and you're just ignoring it and say oh well it's okay we're not ready to put fire extinguisher we're not ready to do it no this is the situation and it's not my knowledge you know I am just listening to the scientists to 90 over 95 percent of scientists are telling us that we are on a headlong rush to an unstoppable circumstance which will bring catastrophic consequences to humanity if we don't stop poisoning the atmosphere again if I bring a generator into that your studio which is a closed environment and you will not allow me to turn it on because you know what's gonna happen now the millions and millions of tons maybe we need to put it at this point if we're saying that we don't need to poison the environment do we have alternative is that simple what alternative we made available I mean if you look at China the the greatest in terms of a meeting carbon into the system and they're also part of the renew they're committed to renewable energy you can say part of the energy that they're consuming now some a certain percentage is from you know renewable sources are we there yet what renewable sources do we have as a country I mean how you know can we be having this conversations when developed claims are having it yeah you know you're absolutely right it's obviously there's a little bit of time for a transition we are you know the world globally we have about eight years maybe 12 years to transit and then it's going to be too late to reverse the process so we've got a few years and what we're looking at now is natural gas as the transition energy even though that's also can be quite dangerous because natural gas is also a very very strong greenhouse gas if it leaks and if it's used irresponsibly which it has been done or transmitted is responsibly then you get leakages so we we have the natural gas as an immediate an immediate transition because a lot of diesel generators can even be converted to natural gas and then within years within just a few years you're talking of China there's other countries in the world that have the technology would borrow the technology we have the capacity to develop solar cells here we have the capacity to have a win win farms in the higher areas which will generate the electricity waves will generate the electricity the problem that we that we don't have is the mindset is the mindset the leadership need to come to the table with a mindset that they are here to serve the people to be so advanced to the civil society and to do the best that they can to protect the people from hardship protect the people from danger protect the people from sickness ailments all kinds of problems that come with this fossil fuel it's in mindset the caring they're going to come with it with an attitude of love for the people that they're leading and once that happens you will see the changes of our transition to clean energy happening very very quickly so it's down to the leaders express some love give us some love that's for magic for me when I look at this this you know news of a green a climate tax I laugh I laugh it's it's one of the most laughable things I've had in the year 2023 and I'm the way I'm laughing about it I may keep laughing to 2024 because as far as we are in this country the government that that that is saying they want to do a common tax they're the biggest polluters in the country government the federal government Nigeria is the biggest polluter in the country I don't if you agree that you're an environmental activist for many years Nigeria's government is the biggest player in the oil and gas industry should we talk about the the the oil exploration activities and the emission of gas greenhouse gases because of that should we talk about the the impact on the environment I mean I lived and worked in Port Harcourt for many years you know as a journalist so we did some advocacy on the suit you know and government was complicit you know in all ramifications and that's why they kept looking the other way and that's what they've done nothing about it that's number one we look at the refineries they run the biggest refineries in the country okay number one number two if you look at even the those who use who you generating sets we are using generating sets because they failed to provide electricity for us so they are the biggest culprit so what are they talking about when they say they want to tax people you know for carbon emissions that is laughable what do you say to this please yeah when you see you know I'm also guilty of this as well when I see a child behaving foolishly I love you know because it's just a natural reaction to laugh at foolishness and I agree with you entirely that the two just don't add up very well because here we are driven by the use of this fossil fuel fossil fuel it's our mainstay of our economy which it shouldn't because it's not sustainable agriculture is far more sustainable the fossil fuel runs out and also the totally irresponsible use of the revenues from the fossil fuel look at Norway which also had fossil fuel as a mainstay of the economy they have the biggest sovereign world fund in the world because again the government who understood something about the implications of being leaders the implications of getting the reactions to your actions which are inviolable by the way the government of Norway invested so much of the money that they made from fossil fuel into different businesses and investments all around the world we haven't done that unfortunately our leaders are guilty of a lot of anomalies they're guilty of a lot of things that are now beginning to impact very very negatively on the people but it's not too late to change and once the pollution in those areas that you are at you know my heart goes out to you because as a journalist you must have seen some horrendous things you know young children die prematurely in droves because of the atmosphere is polluted the water is polluted because of the irresponsible extraction of this product no no no no no it's not acceptable and the suit how can the suit have gone on for so long so when you're faced with leadership that will allow this to continue it gives cause for extreme anxiety and the best therapy for anxiety is to laugh so I don't blame you for laughing at them but it's doable all we need is to have people in position who understand the implications of action the getting reaction okay final question for you should such a tax I mean it which is not a bad idea if the the the sincere about it which we know it's debatable but should such a tax just be about the collection of money should there be an aspect of using the tax to further the aim of making Nigeria carbon neutral or at least getting to getting close to that because they have something called effluent a lot of states in the country today have what we call effluent discharge tax is a tax you know method or charge to companies businesses organizations for the harm they do to an environment so it's something they already called effluent discharge tax I'll use reverse data example they give you a demand notice and then they say pay this amount of money to the government but they meant if you look at the laws to the you know the laws that came off should of them the various environmental protection agencies of the states they're meant to use this effluent research to reduce the effect on the harmful impact on the environment but they don't do it you know so I have done some investigations to see in yes but that these monies are shared amongst government cronies it does they don't reinvest the money to the environment so what lessons can we learn from that for this carbon tax excellent observation and very important question it's totally inextricable now the thing is about this tax if it's ready mainly at the large corporate sectors that would be a little bit more amenable a bit better but also also the the oil and gas sector you know they are making tremendous amounts of profit especially over the last year you know the major oil companies have made unprecedented profits so you know they also should be taxed because they are the source of this pollution which again let's emphasize this pollution is causing a very terrible situation that is emanating on humanity that has been expressed from Nigeria all the way through Africa all the way around the world it's a common problem that humanity is facing and we should demand of the leaders we should demand of them that any money that is raised will be used to number one help us to adapt to the effects that the pollution is already causing that's the especially the climate change and also help us to mitigate and by mitigating it means moving away from using poison as one of the great young activists said you know you cannot drink oil you cannot eat coal you cannot breathe so called natural gas what good will money do you on a dead planet and we're killing off the environment killing off the planet and the implications for those who are lying this to happen is very horrendous they should listen to scripture the scriptures tell us God is not more so we shall read so let's hope to be so the right seat well thank you so much decimal magic for doing for being part of the show we do appreciate your time yes indeed that's a magic magic could have me tonight on a violent rentalist environmentalist is also chairman of a leaky state urban forest and animal shelter initiative a radio show host right here in legacy also green are on 99.3 Niger in 4.5 mercy it's an interesting time we'll watch what this policy is all actually the end of the day it's not to talk about we have to go thanks for joining us follows on social media plus TV Africa and on YouTube we are plus TV Africa and plus TV Africa lifestyle also checked out a website is usually updated with a lot of news up to the minute use on our website my name is Kofi Bartels now I am messy but what we join the newsroom at 9 o'clock for the news brief please with us good morning