 Welcome to Toffy TV as Everton continue their manager search. I am joined today by Andy De Piff. He's with me to have a chat about Carla Wansiolotti leaving and what Everton should do next in terms of the manager search. So, let's get into it. Andy, how are you mate? Good thanks mate, busy as usual. Hopefully I'll be in there Thursday, but otherwise I'm good. We haven't done this on camera since Carla left, so last week, last Tuesday, he had the news broke that he was leaving Everton. So, I mean, what were your thoughts on that he was returning to Real Madrid? Were you surprised by that? Yes and no. I was surprised after what Carla had said to be fair, but, you know, at the end of the day, you know, people are, I guess he wants to do what he wants to do. It's football. Unfortunately, he can't get really attached to people anymore, just the way the game is. People who always got a better offer, or what's best for the families, they always say, whatever it may be. In terms of, you know, for me, I've had my reservations about Carla for a long while, and I just always thought this job was a little too hard for him. I'm not saying he's not a great manager because he's one of the old-time greatest managers ever, but it's just a different type of job. But I think Real Madrid is a much more suitable job, especially what they're going to try and do next summer for him than Everton is. And I think, you know, he's probably honest with himself, but Real Madrid is a suitable job, so, there you go. Yeah, I mean, when the, you know, we did them a couple of weeks ago. I mean, totally dismiss it and say, I'm happy at Everton and, you know, it's nice it's flattered in and blah, blah, blah. But obviously, things have come back full circle. I think it's easy to say when you're not fully convinced that they want you. The minute they know that they want you, it becomes a difficult or a different conversation altogether. I think once we knew that it was serious, then I kind of resigned myself to the fact that he won't be going. And I'll be honest, I think what made it easier for me was the fact that we were in great last season. You know, we had, we were great away results wise, but if we'd have been like third or fourth playing fantastic football, I'd have been devastated that he's going, but it is the nature, like you just said, the nature of the game, and you've got to try not to get attached to people, I guess, because this can happen. But Real Madrid for him is, I would say, is a much better fit just because, aye, they're more likely to finish in the top three in Spain, top three or four, so he's champions league with them anyway. Of course they are in the champions league as well. So, evidently, it's a longer term thing. And I guess the only thing, and you can't have touched on it then, was the noises coming out of him since he's been here, of how much he loves you. I think a lot of Evertonians bought into that. A lot of people, even non-Evertonians, were like, well, he really likes it there, so why would he move? But I guess the lore of Real Madrid was a bit too much for him. I suppose there's two sides. Personally, I'm not sure he did like the city, but I'm sure he did like working in Everton. I suppose it's a nice club to work for in a lot of ways. Or a professional level after what happened at Bayern Munich and what happened at Napoli. His reputation at the elite level, I guess, was a bit on the wane, and I guess 12th and 10th at Everton, probably under the season of 9th, 10th, 8th, whatever it may be, we'll finish next season, maybe better, who knows. That would have really hurt him in terms of his reputation at the top level. I guess he always thought, well, either he'd get there with Everton or alternatively, he'd get there with another club, he'd get back there with another club if he left, so I think he stuck the opportunity really to not salvage his career because something like Everton was ruining his career, but I think that he can see that he won't get opportunities like that again if he continues trying to rebuild Everton, because he's not a manager, he builds things, he's just not. I think the research before it came, he obviously had a great team at Real Madrid, but there was a lot of building pieces already there, and those building pieces probably aren't as there at Everton. He probably needs to do a lot more work, he needs to have them clubs. Without with Everton and the FFP and Premier League rules, it's a bit more difficult to do it and have those league clubs with the commercial rights and what have you not to have? Yeah, very much so. We've got our own, ours is a longer time, isn't it? It's a longer time project, really. Moving on, then he's gone, and we move on, as the FFP will do. How do you think Everton should approach this next step? Obviously, there was rumours immediately that it was new now from Wolves, it was coming in and that was the fate within a day. Everton have had talks and he's going to be announced. I've seen one news outlet report and he's been announced within 24 hours. That was on Wednesday and here we are the next weekend, it hasn't. A lot of names have come to the fore, Everton have been inundated with applications for the post. It seems to be a different two names every day. There's a lot of people who want it and you can understand why. But how do you think Everton are best approaching this? Because, since Farad Masheiri's come in, his first job is Sacked Markners and then he wanted a Hollywood manager, so we went for Ronald Cooman and then that didn't quite work out and he had his first bite at Marko Silver and couldn't get him and all of that came in and then he got Silver and then Marcel Brands as well came in that summer and we were all thinking, okay, we've got a director of football, things might move a little bit smoother now and Marko Silver went out the door and Carlo Antialotti came in after Duncan Fergus and had had a little spell at the caretaker and we're back to the point now where I guess a lot of us probably didn't think we'd be at Marko Silver where we're looking for a new manager. So how do you think the club are best approaching it now? Because it doesn't seem so far like we've followed one set of rules since Farad took over, does it? No, and I guess every club's different because every club's got a different vision plan project. They'll use those in the quotation marks because I know people don't always like them words, but that's the buzzwords that people use. For evidence, I don't work with evidence so I don't exactly know what they've been doing for me and obviously professionally, I know that we do this for other clubs that we work with. We track it managers year-round even though they're managers are not under pressure or looking to leave. It's because you've got to be ready for those eventualities and I hope everyone is doing the same. If not, you know, at the end of the day, this is a surprise so you're caught on heels. So you look at it like you've got to start doing your work and I think having a look at it and the fact that Carlo didn't leave just before the window opened or after the Euros, he's left fairly early in the summer which means you've got time, pre-season doesn't start or what, the 26th of July, roughly around there. So we've got what, you know, so 26th of June so we've got roughly three weeks. So I think if you take two weeks to find a manager, that's probably best. You need to look at every facet of it, really look at the data, look at, you know, decisions they've made, players they've worked with, what suits the squad, they've really got those players in the squad here. Or look, there's a lot of information you need to look at and you need to look up, you know, teams, get your references as well, speak to ex-players, people you know have waged under them. All of that stuff needs to be done. I think for me, you know, I'm a long believer that I ever need to look at this as a 3, 4, 5-year thing, where they build, you know. I'm not saying we need to finish 10th again, but if we finished 8, 7, 7, 6, 5th, 4th, they're never going to be happy over those five years. I think that's what ever needs to be more consistent. So I think we need to look at it in terms of that. I think the club have always looked at it as a short term, more of a short term idea and the fact that we must make Europe this year, which is why we spoke at Carlo Ancelotti, brought in to do that with James Rodriguez now and the type of sounds that were made to try and push everything into that. Maybe we need to go a different way. I think that Carlo will even shock many fans, maybe. It'll be just right for the club, maybe. So with that in mind, and I totally understand that and I get what you're saying, that the club does want to be in Europe, I think, if I was far out of my sherry and I'd put close to half a billion pound down, I think I'd want some reward as well. To show for me money because, I know we can go back and say, Everton have played in Europe 12 times in the last 50 years or something, so it's not as if we are European stalwarts, stalwarts every year with it, but I think when he took over in 2016, he'd have looked and probably thought, well, he'd just been in Europe a couple of seasons ago, David Moyes had them in Europe a couple of times. The team was seen to be okay. I guess he might have thought that the way we did that, the influx of money would have took us one way and one way only. And it hasn't and it's been because of that plan, it's been because of some poor decisions and it's been because some players simply haven't done what they should have done and what they were born to do, but in terms of choosing a manager now, are you hoping that this is left to Marcel Brands? Because I think, if he's the director of football, then we need to let him direct football surely, if that's how it's going to be, if that's the model we're using. I fully expect, far atmosphere, to have a say in it because after all it is money and we are where we are and doing what we're doing, but do you think that it should primarily, though, be Marcel Brands driving this bus in terms of who comes in next? Because even though he went with it, he did say when we appointed Carlo Antolotti, that wasn't his choice. It wasn't a manager he had gone for. Although he kind of rubber-stamped Marco Silva, I'm not 100% convinced Marco Silva would have been his choice either. So, how do you see it, or how do you hope this process will play out over the next week or so? Well, my hope is that Marcel Brands will lead the recruitment driver, I guess is what you want to call it. He will lead the recruitment driver, because hearing his staff, there are the ones who are going to do all the work, whether all the information finding, all the watching of games potential, all the scouting of the manager, they will do their findings to Farhad, Michir i Bill Cairn, and I hope that with Brands' weight in the game, in terms of his longevity of PSV, his footballing knowledge, that's essentially what he is. He is the footballing knowledge on the board, his recommendations then taken on board. Now, I understand that Farhad is obviously for black money, so he's got every right to choose his own man. But make best use of your resources if you're paying someone. I think Marcel Brands is on over a million a year, I can't remember the exact figure. If you're paying someone a lot of money each year, then make you better use to them, and then we'll find out, because I think what Brands is, and I think I do respect Marcel Brands massively, sometimes we don't know, obviously there's been reports that he's not like last summer, we obviously know that Hammers, Rodriguez, and Alan were Carlo and Schlotty signs. We know that to Corey and Goffrey. We've never really seen Marco Brands being either that leader from the front in the sense that he's not, there's always been either other people with the hand in the pot, I guess, or there's always been other influences on decision making. Now with his three-year contract, maybe it's time to see him take the lead and show that he is the man to lead us for the next five, six years, that we need to know. We can't always be, well, when Brands gets older with them, we'll know, we need to give them that licence, if you will, to show us that he is the man to rebuild heaven football, but to build evidence to see that there are going to be regularly challenged feet from us. Yeah, now I agree because otherwise, what are we paying him for? If he's not got any, if there's no reference points to judging by, what are we paying him for? If he's director of football and he chooses the manatee and the manatee doesn't work, we know that he chose him, so therefore we can look at him and question him if he chooses the manatee and the manatee does fantastically well. We know who we can praise in that thing as well, which is what it's all about. It's not so that he can be criticised a lot, it's also that he can be praised a lot, because at the minute it does feel a little bit like who's decision was this and there's all of those questions bouncing around with everything, who chose this fella, was he forced on them, who's buying the players who's doing this and I still think that. Go on, sorry, go on. I was just going to say, I think that it's key that everyone establish hierarchical decision making flow, in terms of Farhad Masheery owns the club, so he's obviously the top of the club, he makes the final rubbish tab decision on most things, because it is money, but then on a football side he needs to flow from Farhad to Marcel or Farhad board Marcel manager. I think what's happened is, obviously not pretty to the conversations, but he is a manager, so just Carl Angelotti with such a name, instead of being under Marcel and under in that sort of flow, they become side by side really, and it's like, oh you can have one of your signs, that for me doesn't work, I think in the director of football model the director of football has to be the one who sort of leads the football side of the club and with the manager slash coaches it will be now, obviously under his remit. By all accounts, this is kind of what's been what's been leaked to the press at the moment, that brand is kind of driving it and stuff, so hopefully Everton will get this right, because it's a crucial appointment isn't it, this one, because if we get it wrong again, where do we go from here? And what's frustrating, and I think what's frustrating to a lot of Evertonians is we see other clubs seemingly not finding it difficult to move forward, and yet we've had all the resources and we've touched still, really. It's a bit of a math mon, isn't it? I guess we're still chasing our tails from that 17-18 summer where we play both those players, and I think because we spend so much that summer doing it wrong, we benefit massively from being able to sell John Stones, wrongly the car, the Ross Barclay, because they give us the platform and the rules to be able to spend all that money, I think when we made, not mistakes, because I think we've got some mistakes somewhere we didn't get the full value out of the sands, but we've still got a good minute if we stick it to Michael Key, and we've been contributors at the end of the day. I think that we lack a lot of assets, we don't have, apart from, I think we had on the Coru, we had Vlassich, we had Luchman, maybe Gay, apart from those, we don't really have those assets on the fringe of the squad if you look at other squads around, don't mind selling it, they can get 10-15 million pound for it, I think we lack a lot of that. Our players on the fringe of the squad can't really move them out, it's because some sort of blockage really in bringing players in, I think we do need to look to sort of bring in more assets and not to advocate and sign 10 moist keins because we shouldn't do that. I was a risk where taking was a young lap, but we need to be smart from the transfer market and find players. I think Rory Smith said that, I've said it before, it shouldn't be the severe league in terms of bringing players in, selling players on, but also being around those top four positions and fighting the trophies in Europe, that should be the dream. That's hopefully what we've become, but I think it's going to take just a little bit more time and it depends obviously, the manager will be the first protocol in terms of the start, Matt, again. Right, I know you're busy and I know you've got stuff on, but before you go then, if you were choosing today and it was up to you, you've got one choice, don't give me a top three or whatever, you just had to pick one manner you think would get everything going in the right direction and play a bit better football than what we watched last season, which man would that be for you? Well, I know people have been asking me this for the five days on Twitter and stuff and I thought I didn't want to say because I haven't done it, but I've told you before, I think for me I think balancing all the ideas and everything, I think Lucien Favre, who was at Dortmund last season would be the man of it. He looked at his record when he was at Nice and glab back, he turned them round very quickly into clubster, could sort of fight for the European players, spoke on the Champions League under Dortmund the first two years, busy good. Last season didn't work out, but I think it done together and we shopping for managers who've just won the European Cup and so we need to look at, we need to be serious. I think he can balance the fact that we need to build the squad, but also he needs to work hard and overachieve as well and I think that's where I need to get into those European places as well. So I think he'd give us a foundation for two years in which we could get those right players in, so maybe after those two years, maybe three years the next man can come in ready with a better squad I think, at the issue with Evidence Squad currently it's a bit ill-fitting for your likes of Sarri, your likes of Fonsac, they're like these managers and I think they do well if they give them time, but it's going to be a bit better if they haven't got those players. You can play that possession attacking football. I think Favre can work with players quite well and say in players and get the best out of them quite quickly, maybe able to salvage some players for us in fact. So he would be my choice I think. Interesting, very interesting. I did like watching Dortmund under him, he was excellent under him. Nice one and anyway it's going to be an interesting week now you are in later in the week so we'll either continue this in more detail with names that have been bounced around or we may know who is the new manager of Evidence and we can have a closer look. Thanks very much for joining us Andy, pleasure as always mate to talk to you. Speak soon, see you soon guys. See you soon. So there you go, there you go, more more stuff going on, we're still no closer are we at the moment at the time recording this to Evidence name and the new manager. Who do you think Evidence should go for or do you think Evidence should do this process, should it simply be Marcel Brands or there's far up and she already got every writer to use the next man. Let me know in the comments section below, make sure you give the video a thumbs up, subscribe if you haven't and if you want more videos join us over on Patreon. See you later.