 Hello everybody if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer, and that must mean it's time for an early show of Warhammer Weekly joining me as always my one and only co-host. It's Tyler. What's up brother? How you doing? Good man. Gonna be here. Wish we had Tom here with us for Nurgle. Indeed. So a quick note on this time and the length of the show and all of that and then we're gonna jump straight into it. This show is going to be just the Nurgle Battletome review. We're not doing our normal segments. We're just gonna jump straight into this. There's a lot to talk about. I have a limited amount of time. My wife and I are going away for the weekend. We leave today. She's already been gracious enough to I told her I needed to do this show and she's like, oh, well, who's your co-host? I said Tyler. She's like, oh Lord. So so we're gonna try to make this relatively snappy, but we're cutting everything else out and we're just getting to the gold baby right into the meat of it into those weeping pustules that is. I got this very clear email from Vence. We're only doing Nurgle. I mean you practically underlined bold and italicized everything and two hours and 30 minutes. That's right. So we're gonna try to do this all in two hours and 30 minutes. Shout out to everybody in the chat. I see Gary P is out there. What's up Gary? I saw two plus tough. A lot of great people. Oscar, what's up Oscar? How are you doing? Our buddy Tristan Gray is there. So a lot of a lot of people in the chat. Hello everyone. I'll be watching all this the whole time. We're gonna jump straight into the Nurgle Battletome review and I'll tell you I'm excited. I'm actually excited about this book Tyler. I don't think I was gonna be. But before I get into my feelings, we're not gonna jump to the summary slide yet. Right. Hit me with your overall thoughts. What's your feelings? I mean like a lot of folks have been saying it feels like Nurgle. You know it is an elite tough and yes, slow army. So they hit those three things. I'm a huge fan. You know it is a middle or I like what you characterize as the actual middle. I think this will be an actual middle book and sort of fall somewhere right there in that 55 to 45 percent range. And a lot of times we don't react well to books that fall in the middle. Yeah, as a community. Yep. As a community, we only like books when they're broken. We celebrate broken things for like two weeks and then complain about them. Yes. When slaves to darkness came out, one of the best written books, it was widely panned by a portion of the audience. When Soul Blight Gravelords came out, everybody was like even though everybody is you know now said like for the I shouldn't say everybody even though that book is shown that it's a good middle the road book exactly where we want these books to be falling. Right. And you know, like part of the challenge here is that we've still got the sinister six floating around as we talked about last week. And it makes it really problematic when you always have to compare your books to them. Those books are not only meta warping in their overperformance of the meta, but they're meta warping in our perception of well written books, which I think this is. Yes, yeah, definitely agree. There's one issue we'll get into with the not the fact that the trees, the feckling trees, the normal about how are we supposed to read it? And I know you have strong opinions on that depending on how that turns out that could dramatically shift the power level, let's say, of this book. In my opinion, I actually tried out the exponential interpretation last night and yeah, it turned out it was quite strong in my opinion. So it's also just not the way it works, but we'll get there. We'll get there. There are two issues, I think, primarily we'll get into them. All right. So, yes, there was a soul blight white dwarf update. It's cool. We will talk about it next week when we do the news. Just to show everybody, by the way, how into Nurgle I am. I painted my fifth Nurgle model. That's right. Five Nurgle models have now been painted by me as a little Poxbringer Herald that I I kept bashed up out of some extra bits to have a little Herald. I'm going to do I spent all weekend working on a Golden Demon entry that's Nurgle. So I'm into it, buddy. I don't I don't think I play this book, but I'm into it. That's cool. My final thought before we get into this is, do you know how excited Tyler, this makes me for corn and oh, God, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Really, really, really excited because let's jump to the let's jump to the overview here. A very different but very Nurgle book. This is the first time since the launch of the game that I have thought Nurgle felt like Nurgle. That's my honest answer. OK, and they like this gives me so much hope for corn and for for Sonesh to get new books eventually somewhere down the road and to actually feel like they're supposed to because right now, neither of those books feel anything like what they should. They don't feel like those, but this does. This is always what I pictured Nurgle to be. I'm born as this strange, Johnny-esque, delicate dance of buffs and auras and combo, wombo combos supposed to. Yeah, just smacking your opponent in the face. Well, it's this ballet and the wrong people have the wrong power. It's just, you know, it's silly. QE, no, I'm not. It just means that I've picked models that don't have those things that those trees are still a nightmare to me. OK. So let's talk about the overview here. Tyler, tell me if you disagree with any of my points. I think this is a much slower book. Average speed came down an inch. All of the movement buffs were stripped out of the book. But it's a tougher army, right? And it relies on attrition play. It wants to go all five rounds. It wants to play the full game. It wants to do lots of chip mortal wound damage and can certainly that's extremely dangerous to some armies. It one of the things that does like in the now, it doesn't have the speed on board, but it does have a good amount to be able to like be off board to ambush to no deploy. I will say this is actually an army where you can truly no deploy. You can one drop nothing. Like you can say zero things on the board. Go. My friend Brett tried it last night. Yeah, one drop, no deploy and yeah, so it's fascinating. One drops could be, you know, we'll talk more about it, but that the potential of getting alpha pens and blocked your deployment, you know, your opponent goes first. They have a way to pin you in your deployment. That's kind of an obvious potential play against Nurgle that could cause some challenges. I mean, that's something you can list build for. You do have some tools to counter that, including the gut rot and Lord of Affliction, starting with those two. Yeah, yeah. And I completely agree with the Lekman who says that I love that it actually feels like Nurgle. That's the best part of it. And I agree this like in reading this, I was like, wow, this feels so Nurgle, right? So it does have a big, big changes as we'll get into. It has a universal work now and universal healing just across the board. So that's just that's just a thing now. Everybody gets an amulet of destiny all the time. It does have weak summoning, but it does have potential. I think one thing in this book is the coalition has become basically worthless because the way they structured the rules, all the coalition units no longer have any home here. So Skaven, Nurgle units, Slaves of Darkness and Beast of Chaos, sadly have just no home here. They just don't get to play in the pool. If there's one weakness I would point to in the book, it would be that it makes me kind of sad that they allowed for coalition units, but then basically said, but they don't get any of the fun stuff. Yeah, we'll be curious to talk more. It'd be another show, you know, when we'll want to think about allies, coalition, endless spells, you know, lists, all that stuff. We'll get into the details later on. But yeah, I hadn't really dived into that. Yeah, I thought maybe some chaos nights for mobility might be a thing, you know, things like that. We could talk about it later time. Yeah, yeah. So there are some challenges. There are some strengths. We're going to get into that as we go. I think overall there are some armies this will perform very strongly against. And there are some armies that I think that, you know, are going to be. That Nurgle is going to find a challenge to beat. And we'll talk that through as we, you know, as we get through it. OK. All right. I think it's a good summary, man. Yeah, like this matches what I've experienced in my two games so far. Uh, it's it is a very durable army. Oh, my God. And I love how it plays differently than when I've been accustomed to in AOS over six years. Sure. It was quite a unique play experience. And the strategic use of farting is still the most critical element of this book, I would say, which is a wonderful place to be. I'm from Sloppyty, like that. That ability is still nuts impact that that has had on the two games I played. Yeah, preventing pylons. Yeah, sure. I mean, we're to talk about both Sloppyty and Scrivener and why I think they're two of the strongest scrolls in the book. But, you know, we will definitely get into them. You know, I think when I look at matches that they're strong against, I think something like Lumeneth, especially if the foxes get the nerf we expect, Lumeneth have a really tough fight against these guys. They just don't, you know, like they're good against their mortal wounds. They don't have the wounds to take it. I think Lumeneth are going to be in a real rough spot against this army. But think something like Sons of Babbot seem really strong against this army because sure, on like turn four, chances are all four giants would drop dead. But by that point, you've already lost, right? So I think they're sort of those are kind of there are extremes. And it's certainly not going to be you would expect that to happen. You would expect that an army doesn't have great matches. And I don't think any of these are 100 to zero, of course. Right. There are some hammers in here, but they are weak hammers. It's an army that largely revolves around weaker hammers and mortal wounds and ship damage. So there's definitely a lot. I mean, a lot of conversation we had about, yeah, how are they going to play the meta? I think a common criticism is going to be or is and will continue to be they don't pass DPS checks and this game in part right now because of the existence of Sons, a level characters, Death Star type units is a little bit of a DPS check in some ways. Like you can do the big brain plays with some armies, play around it, play objectives, et cetera. But yeah, so that's that's certainly a thing. And the mobility is we've always is always keen in the West. Mobility is king. So they're going to have to find a way to get on objectives and compete on objectives in sufficient time. Things like that. But they've got some tricks to do that. They certainly do. Yeah. OK. Well, if I saw your question about against Stormcast with Yandrosta, I honestly think they're a very good opponent to Stormcast. A Stormcast generally can't handle a deluge of mortal wounds. And I don't think Yandrosta is that scary. I think she's pretty easy to deal with. And I think that in the end, a lot of you'd end up losing too much, too fast has been my experience. I play two games against Nurgle so far to get ready for this show. And, you know, what I've seen is largely the mortal wounds are more than you think they are. That's my answer. I would agree. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about some points changes. First off, you know, then we'll have some context for these later. But the real take home point here is most things went up. That's the story, right? Now, why did they go up because a lot of scrolls got rewritten because everything now has a five up word built in, not just the demon stuff and because people got a lot of new abilities and because everything now self heals, right? And now everything effectively has a one step removed mortal wounds. Tick. The simplest way to think about it now is this army has every six to hit is half a mortal wound. Right? I like that. Yeah. OK, to a limit, I suppose. Right. But so you see a lot of points moves, you know, all the the Maggath lords went way up. The great unclean one big up, you know, they're basically ticking 500 points now at 495, but both both the great unclean one and Roticus are right around there. So you see a lot of points moves up. But I think in a lot of cases, these are going to be earned. I actually feel pretty like it felt pretty comfortable. There is a couple of points in here that I feel are probably maybe a tad too high like we could bring a few down. But in the end, that's still a better place to be. It's better to be just a tad over pointed to start. And then it's easy to kind of wheel it back. It's much harder if your book comes out too cheap or way too cheap. And then you have to make these moves up. And, you know, if they're underperforming, if they're underperforming, as you said, we can take some points down. Yeah, some of these things and that and that can help. Yeah, largely, you know, you guys talk about this last show, you went through these three different buttons you can push. And to me, this one is largely a points button that's going to help bring this army potentially more in line if it's out of line, either on the low end or on the high end. Like, they're still making the mistake with some of these name characters. Like, Rodegas absolutely has to be cheaper than Great Unclean One. To me, it's like a no brainer when I look at Rodegas. And the fact that I think they're very similar in point cost. And number of these things also are deceptively, I think, about appropriately pointed. You know, like you look at Vikings and you get sticker shock. Two hundred fifty points for five. Are you crazy? But then you start adding up what they're doing and what they can do. I think it, you know, maybe it's ten points off, but it generally checks out at two fifty. Yeah. I agree. Like the my hit list of things that seem maybe slightly too expensive. OK, would be the regular Guo, Rodegas, the Galatkin and the regular Poxbringer. Yeah, that would be my hit list of things that seem slightly too high for what they're doing. Maybe maybe the Beast of Chaos as well. Like he's just not. I will get into him, but I just don't think he's doing enough. Is he plague drones added to that potentially? I see. I like plague drones where they are. I'm going to defend. OK, all right. Cool. All right. I think they're actually pointed pretty dead on. Oh, sweet. OK. Fantastic. But yeah, those are the standouts. Yeah. I mean, we could quibble about a few other things, but yeah. Yep. And I understand why they pointed the glock in where they did, because they were scared of what this thing could achieve, as we'll get to when we talk about it. By the way, thank you to AOS Coach for providing all these wonderful, these little graphics with his little points up and points down. I watched his show and was like, OK, can I have that? And he was nice enough to send them along. I'm excited after we make this chart. So go check out AOS Coach, if you haven't already. Also, if you're excited about Nergal, hey, don't forget to hit that like button and subscribe and stuff like that. I see we were joined in the chat by the O and Jackson. Everybody said that in the O and Jackson. Amazing. Cheers, Owen. And don't worry, Owen. We jumped straight into it today. We cut all other segments, because we're going hard straight in the paint here. OK. All right. So in general, points are higher, but for the most part, it feels about right. Again, I would label and we'll get into these when we get into the War Scrolls, but I would label the Guo, Rodigus, the Galatkin, and the regular Poxpringer, Harold, as being over-pointed and probably needing to eventually come back in just a little bit. What it's worth, I suspect, our opinion on this may be outside of the norm. I'm seeing a lot of people who think that this book is generally over-costed. A part of a lot of what I've seen is it's too slow, it's too tame, and it's too slow. It's too tame, and it's too over-costed. Yeah, I think that that's an easy perception to get until you play it, right? When I looked at the Slenesh points, I was like, well, clearly, these are all too high. And then I played it and built this. And I was like, yeah, I was right. Clearly, these are all too high. When I watched what the Nurgle units did in the two games I played, I was like, wow, these guys really earn their points, right? And again, I think there are some real standouts in here that feel exactly where they should be. I think that when you look at the toughness, the self-healing, stuff like that, and then the mortal wounds you're gonna get, I think it's gonna catch people off guard as to just how effective it is, right? Whether or not they can handle a DPS check meta is the real question, right? That, and that's a tougher question than just the points because adding another unit doesn't necessarily make you pass the DPS check, right? That's sort of a fundamental question. And maybe what that says is maybe giants are just designed poorly and shouldn't act like they do. Yeah, right. Yeah, I mean, we've had this conversation for many months now, what giants are, the impact that they've been having on list building, like I've told you many times that I'm building, say four fulminators and one by four instead of two by two, you create these larger units to give you a DPS check unit or another DPS check unit, whereas otherwise you might like for a lot of other reasons have an MSU orientation. Yeah, it's, we'll see. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And when I read it first, I admit, look, I felt the sticker shock too, okay? So it's not like I feel people are like lunatics for thinking that there's a bit of a sticker shock here, right? That the stuff's expensive. I get it. And like I said, maybe there's some units that are a little high. The Glock and I have a special place for that. I think he's just, I think he's wildly out of balance, but we'll get to him later. The, you know, but part of the challenge here is that some of this stuff was really undercosted because it didn't have any of these abilities and then we handed them a lot more. So they went conservative on the points and I think that's good for the reasons we've already said, right, if these 10 turn out to be a little too high, it's pretty easy to wheel them back just slightly, right? But on the whole, I think they're mostly in the right area. Okay, enough about the points. Well, we'll talk more on points when we get into it. Okay, so let's get into the meat of the thing. Okay, so yes, they have sub-factions. Great, let's start with the allegiance abilities. Disease, this is your core mechanic of the book. And one of the reasons I say that coalition units don't get to play in the pool anymore is because disease only comes from maggot ken of Nurgle units and your coalition units simply gain the Nurgle keyword. So they're legal in your army, but they are not maggot ken of Nurgle, okay? And so they don't get to play in this pool, right? Now, how does disease work? Disease works like this. At the end of the movement phase and at the end of the combat phase, every turn, so 10 times during the game, so 20 times total, this will happen, right? Everybody with me on that math. There are five battle rounds consisting of 10 turns. This happens twice per turn, 20 times. If your unit is within three inches of any Nurgle unit, any, then you gain a disease point. You can never have more than seven disease points. Hot tip, invest in D8s. Since I am also an RPG player, I had a big duck bucket full of D8s, so I just handed them to my opponent and we just used those to track and it was very simple and easy. My opponent ran out of D8s last night, so don't make that mistake, folks. And you can never have more than seven if nothing else is happening and you're standing within three inches of the unit. At the end of the movement phase, you go to one. At the end of the combat phase, you go to two, okay? Easy peasy. Now, there are a lot, yes, any maggot can of Nurgle unit. Thank you, Tamas, yes, absolutely correct. That's right, I was being a little too short. If you're really clever, by the way, Tyler, are you familiar with Zuchi Dice? Do you know Zuchi Dice? You mentioned it before, but I didn't know what it was and I still don't. So, Zuchi Dice are odd dice. They have D5s, D7s, D13s, and something D7s. I don't remember the exact thing, but they have a D7 in Zuchi Dice. Z-O-O-C-H-I, so for you Nurgle players, if you wanna get the die that is exactly matching to the sacred number of holy grandfather, you can order Zuchi Dice that are in D7s. So, that would be a super cool thing, I think. Now, there are lots of other ways to get disease points, which we'll talk about as we go on. At the start of the battle shock phase, very important timing on that. For each disease point that an enemy unit has, you make a die roll, called a disease roll, for each four plus, that enemy suffers one mortal wound. Meaning, if you ramp the units you're fighting to seven disease points, on average, they're gonna take three to four mortal wounds per turn, every turn. Assuming you've still got a unit there, even one person. Assuming you can ramp to seven. So, that means, at maximum, if we're just thinking, if we're just charting what is the asymptote of this ability look like, right? Now, there are ways to push this to a three plus, by the way, which would put the number to four to five mortal wounds. So, what we're talking about, in general, as the asymptote over the course of the game, five battle rounds, is each unit suffering 35 to 50 mortal wounds, okay? Now, if that were to be the way, like, if you were able to approach that asymptote, and again, I'm saying it's a maximum, it's not realistic, but as you approach that, there is no army in the game that can withstand that kind of punishment, right? Like, no army can withstand that amount of mortal wounds. Like, over the course of the game, if you have that many units taking that many mortal wounds, that's literally hundreds and hundreds of mortal wounds. Okay. We're not even talking about fighting or combat or anything like that at this point. This is just literally the diseased ability. And I think this was part of their challenge, right? Of they weren't sure exactly how much this would ramp, because it's a hard, and this is why I think people also have a challenge in judging this book. It's a really hard ability to get a read on. Yeah, it is, yeah. All right. Yeah, and there's a number of consequences that are, yeah, just a number of consequences are not, like, I'll give you an example. So, I had a single ether wing whose job was to go help grab savage spearhead in like round three. That damn thing had a token on it, which meant that I cannot risk my opponent rolling a four up to kill that poor bird and deny savage spearhead. Like, a little instances, you know, and that's just one of many examples you could give. You know, I was using bandits to pin, try to pin four blightlords and a load of afflictions. Bandits is on nine wounds, and he's safe stacking crazy, but he quickly got, because they're rolling quite a few dice with those, that many number, I think I have three blightlords left, quickly got up to seven disease points. He only had my, I was rolling two ups on everything, my saves with their minus one run, but he got enough through and he got the disease point rolls and it vandals to the wounds, which had a huge impact on the game because that unit's suddenly free. And it's just, yeah, I've seen a number of these little instances where sort of these consequences of disease points that has been interesting. And it's been more, generally more impactful than I would have expected, just reading it blind. Yeah, agreed. You know, in one of the games, so two things, one, this book certainly wants to be MSU to a point. There's a couple of counter examples to that. It certainly wants to spread out and be able to put its, like you wanna be able to engage on all fronts, as it were, right? The more places you're engaging as an army, one, the less they can do things like save stack against you. And so the more your weaker hammers will have a lot of, you know, more effect to actually be able to add to your damage. Two, your units actually can somewhat overcommit and spread because they're tough enough to generally withstand the beating when you look at sort of your wounds slash, you know, word slash self-healing capabilities. Okay? And then that's also spreading a lot more disease around, right? So it actually encourages you, the sort of secondary incentive of the core mechanic is to spread like Nergal. Right, that's a great point, man. Yeah. So that's an interesting sort of corollary of design slash gameplay, yeah? Slash theme. Very meld in, I suppose. When you talk about the impact of disease, it was funny because one of the games we played, the Nergal player spread out a lot, took his units into a lot of different units. One of the fights that ended up happening was basically 20 plague bearers supported by a spoiled pox scrivener up against some knights of the empty throne. Now there was a few other things going on, but that was the basics was that those two units kind of up against each other. There were some other, like chat, you know, that some other ancillary things floating around, right? Now, if you've played knights of the empty throne, you know that these guys are ridiculous, you know, and they were juiced by everything. It was a standard two up, re-rolling ones, zinch knights, the empty throne nonsense. Okay. I think over the course of like three full battle rounds of combat, which first of all, the plague bearers lasted that long. Let me just say that. Okay. That's alone, says something. Basically, the slaves of darkness was losing a knight per turn. Right? Because the disease alone would end up being three, four, five mortal wounds. There was a wither stave in place, it was on three ups. Oh, nice. Yeah. And then there'd be just other ancillary mortal wounds from other places, right? Were you, were you doing sloppies, were you doing sloppies mortals on sixes, or were you doing the farting for no pile? No, only the scrivener was in play in this one. Only the scrivener. Oh, okay. Gotcha. There was a scrivener who had the wither stave in play and he was using it to give the plus one attack. So like every turn the plague bearers were just auto ramping them to seven disease points. Right? So a knight was just dropping dead because they have no save against that. And like, sure, plague bearers were dying. Okay. Like, yeah, of course. But in the end, it didn't matter. Like this was chewing up their best hammer, setting there, taking the punch and just slowly killing what should be, what is in many cases to many armies and unkillable unit. Oh yeah. Yeah, we've talked a lot about how, I mean, it's one of the more underrated powerful units in this game right now that block of six and knights. Right. Ironically, it kept them from getting the objective away from the plague bearers because every time they would drop one knight and fall right below the level. Now that was just a block of math, but you know, every knight's counting as two, right? And just every time they would lose a knight and then fall right back under the light, they would just come short of stealing the objective round after round after round. So it was quite funny. Okay, cool. All right, so the other way you get diseased is as I mentioned, if the unmodified hit roll for an attack made with a missile weapon or a melee weapon is a six, that attack inflicts one disease point on the target in addition to any damage inflicts. And this is really the way you ramp to seven, right? Because the key is if your one unit is in combat with any number of nergal units, like I'm playing, I don't know, my slinnash or something, I've made a bad choice. And I have three nergal units in contact with me, I'm still only getting one disease point at the end of the movement phase and one disease point at the end of the combat phase. Now there has been some, this is the first FAQ because there has been some argument about this. The base rule is written very clearly, right? Give one disease point to each enemy unit that is within three inches of any friendly maggot kin of nergal units. That is a very clear wording, right? Not each, any, there is a long established history of how we treat any in this game, but I suspect, as we talk, we'll talk about a minute, that that was a last minute change because there's an artifact that doesn't work. It's causing a lot of controversy. We'll get there. But this is how you ramp people to seven. You fight them, right? And the way to think about it in simplest form, your disease, I should say, once they go to seven and you apply those mortal wounds, they all come off down to one. You can never go below one, okay? So the magic number of attacks here, Tyler, is 24, right? You understand why I'm saying that? Well, I explain it, I think so. Okay, after the first contact, if they don't self heal themselves, because you can heal, that's the next thing it says, you can heal to get rid of disease points, you're gonna sit around at one. Move in phase two, combat phase three. Okay, I need to get four more disease tokens on the chaff, it's on a six. Hence one six of my attacks, hence 24 attacks. Let's think again, you start at two and then that's a 30 instead of 24, but yeah, okay, that makes sense, yeah. You know, like the key is these units are gonna get stuck in. So after first contact, you're basically rolling around at one. Sometimes heroes who heroic recovery entered a low amount of wounds. If you have an extra heal from a heroic recovery, like you were at two wounds and you healed three, great. I'll heal the two wounds and knock off my last disease point. I would find my, I did that a couple of times. But for the most part, once you're diseased, you're diseased. Okay. And the other thing I'll say here is that, as we'll see, endless spells can be an interesting play in this too, to keep people running at one or to get that initial one on there or to spread that love around. I actually think there is some play in that with a couple of different interesting endless spells. So intrigued by, yeah, we're gonna have to, we'll do a list show and hopefully Tom can be on that one. But yeah, so intrigued by Rock Coven and some of the things you can potentially do with that. Yep, yep, absolutely. So we talked about legions already, the coalition units, they don't really get to play in the pool. They don't get diseased and they don't actually get the sub-faction rules either because it only Magikin and Nergal rules get the sub-factions. So I mean, they're really not playing in the pool. The only thing I can think of here is if maybe you wanted to ally in, as I'm in a coalition unit, but if you wanted to ally in some untamed beasts for like a pre-game move or something like that, just to hedge people out so you can't be alpha-bunkered into your deployment zone. But honestly, I think that's a mistake. I think you have better options to prevent alpha-bunkering here in really, really good units that can be off-board, so. Mm-hmm. Okay. Disgustingly resilient, your whole army has a five-up ward, period. All your Magikin and Nergal units. Again, Magikin and Nergal units doesn't apply to coalition units, so. But hey, great. Awesome. It's even better than it sounds, in my experience. It's real good. It's real good, especially on 20 wound and 18 wound heroes. Yeah, it ain't too shabby. But it also really, really matters on a unit of plaguebearers, Tyler. We'll get to plaguebearers, but they are, they're hot, at least. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, plaguebearers are so hot now. At a 20, a 10er and a 10er. And yeah, 20, Brett, my friend, he pushed 20 with a bunch of flesh. I think that's what it's called, to give him an extra wound in my face. And it's like 60 wounds right there. You just feel like you were wasting your time. Yeah, yeah. Hitting plaguebearers in the middle of the board. I was incredibly impressed by their durability. Okay, the locus of fecundity, basically your locus, if you're near a Guo Horticulus, the Glotkin or Festus, you heal D3 wounds. Otherwise, everybody always heals one wound. So you're Blikings, if they're just running around on their own, heal one wound at the start of your hero phase. Otherwise, if they're near one of the locuses, they heal D3. So there we go. And you still have some summoning, though the summoning chart was hit, though the way to gain your points was simplified. It's three CPs if you have people wholly within your territory. Three CPs if you're wholly within your opponent territory. I love that they call these CPs, by the way. Contagion. We're not already using that acronym for anything, are we? Nah, it's fine. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. That's hard to come up again. Aegis, Archeon only has the Nurgle keyword. He does not have the Magikin of Nurgle keyword. And then you get, and then if there's no other enemies in the territories, like if you're alone in your territory or you're somehow alone in their territory, you get a bonus CP as well. Trees add to your CP and we'll talk about the controversy around that at the end when we get to the tree. But, I mean, just to go back to the locuses, just to state it, of course, that's a big deal potentially. You know, heroic recovery and locus. So 2D3 heal. I mean, that can be amazing. I was thinking about maybe Festus as a power pairing or like a trio with Gutrot. I'm a big fan of the idea of Gutrot plus Pick a Magikflord. I actually really like Morbidex, where this guy epitomizes distraction card effects. Oh, yeah, sure. Gutrot and Morbidex, 500 points a quarter of your army that's going to wreak havoc in your opponent's backfields. Going after casters, MSU units, threatening an objective in the backfields. That dude, I played against a blow up last night, man, but 20 attacks from five sides with stacking plus two on a four up ward that round from the wheel. And I did four damage with five sides, which, you know, in 2.0 would have destroyed the world. Right. I was like, what is happening? So yeah, I'm actually a big fan of Morbidex, even though I gather that most people rate Orgots and blood more, which I understand, but I think he's pretty interesting too. Anyway, Festus could be a tag along with Morbidex for potential another 2D3 heal as part of that little trio. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The summoning table got a bit more expensive for stuff. You know, if you want 10 plague bearers, there's no more five plague bearer option, right? So if you want 10 plague bearers, it's 14 points. I think your hot summons are right at the bottom of the chart. Getting a new sloppity or a spoilpox, depending on your list could be incredibly good at seven points. And then I think the like the 18 point plague drone is not a bad summon. I don't know that you'll ever really get to the go is my honest answer. Yeah, I mean, it's fine. It's meant to be weak summoning, which is good, by the way. Summoning should be weak. I just wanted to go ahead and state this. It's good to have weak summoning to like, over the course of the game, you summon a unit or two. Fantastic. That's probably how summoning should be. Like one of the most hated things about slanesh is their summoning is on a million. People who play against it, hate it. People who play the army, hate it. It shouldn't be the summoning army. I shouldn't be able to summon things every round. It's stupid and it warps the whole book and it makes it so everything needs to cost even more points and it's terrible, right? I want summoning to be pretty weak. I want summoning to be pretty hard to do because it's just extra free points. I don't think it's weird. Like, again, I also don't think you should pay that much for it in your core points, right? I want to keep the points of the units close to what they're worth on the table, not pay for imaginary units that I might summon. And so the better the summoning gets, the more expensive everything has to become. And that's not what we want, right? We'll talk about that later. Many people strongly disagree with your view on what they intended and we'll find out, hopefully soon enough, what they intended with the summoning. But yeah, I tend to be in your camp. Like I doubt they intended this to be exponential. Come here, we'll get to the tree. I can already see there's some people standing for exponential. I apologize in advance. We're not going to agree with you. And also it won't work that way. Like you need to settle in that it's not gonna work that way. Like, it's not. It's how their intention was very clear. It's the same as the musician. I don't want to spoil this, but folks it's gonna get FAQ and we'll be clearly answered. So like, there it is. Live in the world that will be, not the world that isn't. So, but we'll talk about the trees in detail. I understand both sides of this. I understand why people want it. And I'll make my case. I doubt I'll win over everybody, but I don't think people are easy for reading it that way. I get why they're reading it that way. Yeah, it would be good to set a straw man, not that you're a straw man, but to steal man the argument on the other side as best we can to represent that view. 100%. Because I think there is a view there. Yep, it's logical. I get it. I understand why they want it. I don't think they're crazy for wanting it. We'll provide both sides the discussion because I completely get it. I just think in the end, it's not the, it's one, it's not going to be the way it is. And two, it's worse for the army overall. Okay. All right, the cycle of corruption. So this changed a lot. I'm amazed they kept the wheel. We just started there? Well, surprise to know I saw Tyler Mingle actually put together his own customized version. He took the prior physical wheel and printed out the new text, inserted into the old, I was like, oh, that's clever. Yeah. So, but it's good. It's real, a lot of these are really strong. Okay. But the challenge is you don't have basically any control over this anymore. There is one command trait that can move the wheel one spot forward. So for the most part, Spike now hates the wheel. Yes. Okay. Because it is a random thing, you're going to roll a die once at the beginning of the game. It's going to set the whole five rounds and you're not going to take that command trait, by the way, because there's so many better command traits. Right, right. And so you're just whatever you roll, that's the way it's going to go and it's going to roll. So Spike immediately hates this because he has- Yeah, dude. You know, a lot of this book, you like the lack of mobility, you know, we had a lot of mobility options previously and then basically all of that, it's gone. Maybe that's probably okay with how they compensated with Lord of afflictions, gut rod, et cetera. This, it felt like removing, essentially for all intents and purposes, any ability to change it felt like going too far. I would have liked to have at least one meaningful way to adjust this during a game, at least like one shot. Sure, more than push it one square, one star one, I guess. Yeah, the fact, I mean, you can do it with, what is it, a command trait or it's an artifact, so you can do it, yeah. But it's not worth it, as you said, because it's taking up that slot, but yeah, just, I think just one chance in a game that isn't dependent on a command trait or an artifact, opportunity cost that you could move it, I think would be meaningful. Yeah, sure. I get that, I will say these abilities are very powerful for the most part, there's a couple duds on here. But for the most part, when you roll, you're gonna be able to know, okay, on turn two, I'll have this, on turn three, I'll have this, on turn four, I'll have this. You know it from turn one, so you can plan your battle strat accordingly. And there's a lot of really powerful options on here. Let's talk about them real fast. Number one, so if you roll the one, right? All nergal heroes have a ward of four up, so you're discussing them resilient for all your heroes, goes from four up to five up. Four up wards across the board on all your heroes. Pretty good, pretty good. Last time I checked, four up wards real strong, okay? But then your number two is, I think, one of the weaker ones on the chart. Everybody's treated as though they're within 14 inches of a locus of fecundity, so everybody heals d3. Like already they, many of your units might already be, you know, so it's not like, okay, like, you know. You know, it's kind of the underwhelming one. The burgeoning at the start of your hero phase roll a number of dice equal to the number of the current battle round for each four plus you receive one extra CP, okay? Like boy is that a turret, like rolling a three is just like, it's like, all right, that's fine. I actually think I'd rather roll, honestly I think I like rolling the three, because I'm just gonna roll one die, I get one contagion point maybe on a four plus, who cares, it's stupid. But then I'm into like good stuff on turn two, three and four that I like. Sure. Okay. Especially turn two, like my turn two is looking real good at that point. I experienced this one last night, yeah. Heroes that do not have the nergal keyword cannot carry out heroic actions or issue the rally or inspiring presence commands. That's like no finest hour potentially. Oh, you know, extra CP. Yeah, it was impactful in the game last night. You know, not overtly so, but I felt it. Yeah. The big question here is, can unit champions still issue inspiring presence, right? As it's worded, they can, okay? Which feels wrong, right? Aaron Somerville said, wait, one extra CP or one extra CP, contagion point. Because they said earlier, they pulled like the legal document thing and they said contagion points here to after referred to as CP. If it actually turns off inspiring presence period, like including from unit champions, if that's how it's, there's a slight FAQ question. I mean like, again, as written, it's clear as a bell, it doesn't, but is that, you know, that seems weird. But still very potent ability. Yes, shutting off heroic actions, shutting off rally is really good. No doubt. Even that's on its own. It's just silly to me that like, if you're just turning off here as inspiring presence, it actually does nothing. Because most units are either elite or have unit champions that could still issue it. It's very rare actually that units can't self issue. So that's just a strange loophole they created for no reason. So I don't know. I would also point out totems can also still issue. There's lots of codes in there. Okay, round five or sorry, number five, I shouldn't say round five. Number five on the wheel also very powerful. Subtract one from charge rolls from enemy units they do not have the nergal keyword. Enemy units they do not have the nergal keyword cannot finish a file and move closer to friendly nergal units than they were at the start of the move. That's crazy strong. So good, yeah. Again, that I felt that last night. The thing I felt the most from this book is the lack just turning off pile in. Like if you are thoughtful about what you're doing, you can really change games and your capacity to win games with sloppity and with this. I mean, we could spend 30 minutes talking about all the different uses and like get Tom do some visuals for us on how you can position units precisely to screw a hammer unit like a Knights of the empty throne or whatever the case might be. Oh yeah, they're especially susceptible to this kind of nonsense, yes. Yeah, in fulminators with one inch reach that came up in my first game against Brett where I wasn't thinking about sloppity the first time I had against and I got a six in my charge and it get far enough and I'm staring at four fulminators and only one is in and then I'm like, oh my God, what have I done? I've literally just walked into a trap. I'm stuck and I can't. So yeah, there's like multiple instances of these kinds of things from this book that I think you start playing it and you see it, it's not obvious. Yeah, don't sleep on that neg one to charge either by the by. Neg one to charge is a hugely impactful penalty. Like I don't think people understand it unless you've ever played with neg one to charge but it's crazy for only a minus one how much it moves the number as to where you can succeed on charges. It's a big deal. This used to be, so I don't know if you remember, Tyler but the, what was the name of the Nurgle thing from Storm of Magic or whatever? The idiot from Forge World. Tomerkin, Tomerkin's Horde, okay. Oh yeah, Tomerkin's Horde. So Tomerkin's Horde used to have an ability like this. Okay, neg one to charge. And it was like crazy strong what it would do and I was always so impressed by it. So at any rate, that's why I like the three. I actually love the, like rolling a three to start because then you're sort of like starting on something that's kind of crappy, but then you roll into good thing on two, good thing on three, really good thing on four for the cleanup. But you know, so. So Lynn. So rampant disease, add one to disease roles that you make. I mean, turning it board wide your disease roles from a four up to a three up or potentially a two up in certain circumstances. Really strong, really strong. It just means that for that battle round, you're doing a lot more mortal wounds across the board. Mm-hmm. Right. And then you get into the non numbered option of corrupted regrowth, which is sort of off number. And, you know, it's not great. Let's start a hero phase. You get one extra contingent point for each one tree in your army on the battlefield. So yeah. Yeah, it's like, okay. You obviously can't roll that. You can only turn order into it, but it's, you know. And it's kind of like whatever. And then will wills quite good. I think even, no, I can't remember a lot of the details of how it used to be. I know it used to be pretty good, but to me. Yeah, it's regardless. It feels quite strong, impactful. So this just got mentioned in the chat. Serbs, like I'll be interested to see. He mentioned the corn demon prince thing, which I don't think you can ally in. I'm not sure if I remember if you can or not. I don't know if they're a valid ally. See if I have an ally. Allies, blades of corn, heathen knights of Slemish, slaves to darkness, including zinx units and units that can or must be given a mark of chaos. Can or must be given a mark of chaos. And this, and the demon prince does have a mark of chaos. Like, but that's a weird, yeah. So it must be because you have to take them as... Sorry, excluding zinx, of course. Excluding zinx units. Right. And units can, yeah. And let's see, excluding zinx units. I don't think you can take him in there. Yeah, I think you're right. Yep, you can't ally them because they want them to be coalition and they have to be nerfed. So anyways, it doesn't matter. We can, I don't want to get caught up on it. My argument is yes, five out of the seven, four out of the seven, five out of the seven are good. Somewhere there, four and a half. How about that? We'll call it that. Yeah. There was a thing with the wording. We meant to mention it on, let's see. The designer's notes, coalition units are not allied units. They did not have the battle line designation. You know, in a lot of these books, we've been getting... Oh yeah, the extra wording. Reporting, yeah, with regard to battle line. I'm gonna have to pull up. Maybe we can keep going. Let me pull up the storm cast book because it has it in the storm cast book, but not this book. Interesting. That wording. Interesting omission if they intended that or not. I don't know, I didn't think about that. I just... Yeah. Okay. Keep going and I'll find it. Yeah, let's keep moving. All right, so let's get into the command traits and artifacts. All right. Okay. So these are divided between mortal and demon. I'm not gonna read every one of these because good Lord, there's a lot of this stuff. And again, we're trying to do this in two and a half hours, but here we go. The grandfather's blessing is the command trait that lets you move the wheel. If that's really what you're inclined to do, you can move it forward one stage. So there you go. Infernal conduit is actually like, it seems silly, but it's one of a couple of ways you could choose to sort of guarantee a ramp to seven contagion points on the... Well, not guarantee, I guess. It's a two up still, where you're very likely to go to seven on the first turn, like getting to seven contagion points in the first turn. And seven contagion points means you could bank on summoning a Scrivener or a Slavity round one. Right? So you could basically not put the guy in your list and guarantee you summon him turn one. There's a couple of different ways you can ramp to seven in a pseudo guaranteed fashion. Again, I understand two up isn't every time, but there you go. Which was like a pretty good play, maybe in a lot of list building with Nurgle. Yeah, just planning to summon in particular probably Slavity so that you free up those points in your list and then you play Slavity where it needed, based on kind of how the game plays out in round one, round two. Yeah. But there are two, I'll say this, there are two that really stand out to me. I wonder if they're the same to you. By the way, these are for the mortal heroes. Mortal heroes. So this is going on your lord of afflictions. Because this guy's going to be like the choice to stick things on. He's going to be like the most popular new general of the day. Okay? Yeah. But living plague, starting your hero phase, roll a die for each enemy unit within seven inches of this general on a two plus, give that unit one disease point and you receive one contagion point. So that's a pretty big aura around him. It's hitting multiple units. It's ramping disease, right? It's getting you to likely three disease points automatically without fighting, without counting your hit rolls is what I mean. And it's also ramping your contagion point strategy. And if you put it on somebody like a lord of afflictions, depending on how you play him, he might want to be somebody who's stuck in real deep. Right? So lame. So I like living plague a lot. That's the first one, that stands out. Yup. But then we come to the one that I think you're going to see a lot. Like living plague is interesting. It feels like something you could sort of build around, right? It's a cool disease ramper slash contagion ramper. It's kind of playing both strats at once, which is neat, but overpowering stench. Hey, oh lordy. Enemy units within seven inches of this general cannot issue commands and enemy units wholly within seven inches of this general cannot receive commands. Now, important restriction is the wholly within to receiving commands, meaning that if people are very careful about how they charge you or pile into you, they can like leave somebody tailing out of the seven inches. Now they still wouldn't be able to issue commands. So if you have this that ends up on the same round as the wheel that we talked about, then it would completely shut off inspiring presence, no question, right? Because then they can issue it to themselves. If we're not in that round of the wheel and they're not wholly within, then a nearby hero can still be like, hey, hey, hey, don't run. It's all good. It's cool. You guys are good, right? But I would point out that you on the charge will oftentimes be able to make sure that the whole unit's within seven, right? In your turn, you can certainly put them into a position where they're wholly within seven and they're not really going to be able to get farther away from you through pile and shenanigans, right? So there is a fiddliness to it. It's annoying. They put it on there, I'm guessing because they were scared of how powerful this was. So I get it, but man, it's still really strong. Oh yeah. This and sloppity with the canceling pile in, these things stood out the most in the first game. It was so impactful. And yeah, it's OP stench. It's going to be all over the place. Yeah, yeah. And I hate that we had to have within and wholly within in the same rule because people are just going to, this is going to get screwed up left and right. And I hate when they do this kind of crap. I honestly would have rather seen them just make both of them wholly. Even though it's a much stronger ability and dangerous, I just would have rather seen it for play, for smoothness of play. Yeah, we did have a moment like we had to check. I think we actually played it wrong. We found out in the end. Yeah, because it's so fiddly. Which one's issuing, which one's receiving? You know, like, it's a very powerful rule but a very annoyingly written rule. Right, right. But I mean, yeah, just like an obvious example of why this is good is turning off save stacking, you know, turn off all that defense. Okay, there you go. That's going to help with your lack of rents. That's going to ramp up the value of your minus two rents on some of your better hammers, which are your Maggoth Lords, Gluckin, great and clean one. He was a pretty legitimate hammer now when he gets into combat. And yeah, and then you've got multiple ways potentially minus one to save. They can be challenging to execute, potentially, but yeah, like there are ways to actually do some damage outside of just the mortal wounds with this army. Yep, absolutely. And OP stench, yeah, is a big part of that. Now, let's move on to the demon command traits. If we're talking about demon command traits, I think there's only one on this list you're going to pick. And that is the Nurgling Infestation. Second one, yeah. It's number two, because it's subtract one from hit rolls for attacks that target this general. The rest of this is if some lorem texts as far as I'm concerned, but that's all that matters, right? So your guo is neg one to be hit for both shooting and melee. And that's it, like great. Neg one is still awesome in the game. Yeah, it takes a really tough piece like the guo and makes it even tougher, right? So now he's neg one to be hit all the time. He's got his normal save. He's got a five up after save. He's healing every round to D3 because he is a locus plus potential heroic recovery on his bravery 10. Like he just basically is going to be a very, very, very difficult thing to move, right? You have OP, I mean, we just talked about OP Stench, you know, we have OP Stench in range. Maybe you've got a Lord of Flictions who moves over to where the guo is engaged in combat just charged in or just got charged, whatever. Now suddenly your opponent is not putting plus one to hit from all at attack. And they're going to be maybe, you know, you're making the Shadow Queen Force to hit or whatever, name your favorite hammer. You wouldn't have both of those, but I get you because they're both Command Traits. Oh, you're right. You're right. Sorry. I take your meaning. I take your meaning. Yeah, that's fair. Yep. I'm excited. No, I understand. Like it's a good one. The other thing it does is add ones to hit rolls for Nervling Swarms, which who cares? Peschal and breath, like there's a number of things that are anti-hordes, that is that good against hordes. And of course, we're not really in a horde meta right now, but, you know, even when we are, when we have more, yeah, it's not just a unit. It's the models within range, which are always the weaker. Double range. And seven inches is super short for that kind of thing, but sure. It is pretty short. It's Nervling Infestation or nothing. So there you go. All right. Ghosts went and said neg one to hit is good unless it's attached to a Labyrinthine Orc Shield rule. I agree. I agree. Those Orcs Shields should just be neg one to hit, folks. I've said it before. I'll say it again. Okay. Artifacts, start with the Mortal Artifacts. What are like, there's a lot on this list, by the way. It's like eight artifacts for no reason for on the Mortal List, what here jumps out at you? I've got, I've got two. Sure. Shield of Growth. Well, number one is Split Horn Helm, of course. I mean, anytime you can go to a Four Up Ward. Yeah, that's, to me, that's the obvious standout. I think Shield of Growth is a little more intriguing than meets the eye, in terms of how it works. You can reroll save rolls for attacks that target the bear if the save roll is equal to or less than the number of wounds allocated to the bear. So if you have, let's see, if the save roll that target the bear, if the save roll is equal to or less than them. So if you have three wounds. You're rerolling any save rolls of one, two, or three. One, two, or three. Good. Four Up is gonna be successful. So you're rerolling, you're just probably rerolling your fails. A lot of the things are gonna be three ups or four ups that you would put this on. So I think it's not bad, but probably you would still go with the Four Up Ward. And then I think Mudder Grub isn't too bad like that. Spell Gift of Disease, you get a plus one to cast it. Let's see, the range, I can't remember the range on it. We'll get into it. But yeah, you get a plus one to the roll. But when we come to spells, we'll talk about that one. I still kind of like Russ Fang, but everybody seems to be down on it. What do you think about Russ Fang now? It's off my list. Yeah. I'm giving you a lot. You're not wrong, it still has potential. Look, giving somebody a neg one to save for the entirety of the game, especially heroes who can save stack the easiest is not bad, okay? So I'm thinking about like OP Stench and Russ Fang. Sure. Where, you know, like imagine- You're turning off all the defense. You're giving them a neg one to save. Suddenly you're, yeah, you're just hammering down the hero because they can't save stack against you. Exactly, yeah. Like you can use it defensively. You know, you put your LO at your lord of afflictions, surrounding him with whatever, but he's in a spot where if you want to come into whatever, your anvil that's on an objective, it have to give it the three. You know, it's kind of like a, what's it called? The Luminath Goading Arrogance. Sure. It's kind of like that kind of play. So I think it could still have some play, but it's not the obvious go-to, which is probably the four board. Yeah. I think my list would be Split Horm, Shield of Growth and the Russ Fang, but the Shield of Growth is hard to utilize properly because you do have self healing units and you generally want to also be heroic recovery, your guys, right? So it's like, but even if you just floated around at like one wound or two wounds, if you can like stay in combat and you're being, like that's why I think if you've got a Lord of Affliction's get stuck in plan, right? With like the living plague command trait, I think it could be a potent thing because he's generally going to be wounded in some way often. Like it's just going to happen, even though he's on a three up, you know, he'll be taking some wounds. And so, you know, even re-rolling ones to save on a three up guy is really powerful because it's pretty easy to push three up guys to two up guys, right? Definitely. Muddergrub doesn't make my list because I think magic in this book is average at best. I think the gift of Z spell is okay. I think it's nice that you could choose to add one to the casting role. It is, cast bonuses are actually pretty rare, but it is for a very specific spell, right? You probably never, you probably never taken Muddergrub. I mean, let's be honest. Yeah, like to me it would be like Splithorn, Shield, Rustfang, Muddergrub. Everything else. Everything else, yeah, yeah, that's fair. Right, and there's probably some different distances between those, right? So, okay. But yeah, there's options here. I'm intrigued by Rustfang, but I get why people are down on it. Yep. Okay, Demon Hero Artifacts, the boons, the boons. The boons. Okay, what off this list grabs you? I mean, I think, I think we both know, but what rapper? Sure, yeah, isn't it Witherstaber Bust? I don't think it's Witherstaber Bust, yeah, correct. Yeah. Like it's Witherstaber. That's it. Add one to the disease roles for enemy units that are within seven inches of the bear. You've already mentioned it. Yeah, but again, it's just within, so you just gotta touch a corner. One of the things I'll say after watching this army play is most units in combat with Nurgle will just live at seven disease points every turn. Okay. That was my experience the first game. Yeah, most units, most of the time when you're fighting, you will be at seven disease points. It's just what will happen. Almost automatically, you're gonna go to seven, unless you're fighting like something that just has almost no attacks, and that's actually pretty rare. This army makes a lot of attacks. And so pushing seven four ups to seven three ups is a big difference over the course of the game in the mortal wounds. Oh yeah. Right. Again, I gave you the example of the four fulminators that walked into the trap. They got hit on the side. I couldn't retreat, I was locked in combat with plague barriers, didn't do enough damage with the only one. A go came in, got a decent charge, hit them, actually crap the bed with its damage output, but still just like the various things andcillary particularly that he did like four or five damage on just the disease points alone on three ups because he was up to seven. It's like, oh, wow, cool. Like fulminator just dead right there. Yep. Yep, exactly. And yeah, keep in mind this will go to two up if you hit that round on the wheel, right? Because then you're adding two to the disease rules. So that turn's gonna be a real good turn. You wanna be stuck in and fighting. Like this book wants to fight. It wants to, like I said, it wants to engage on all fronts to spread out and to be hitting as many units as possible, right? The other controversy we should talk about on this page is Noxious Nexus. The bearer counts as two units instead of one for purposes of the diseased battle trait, which does nothing. It doesn't matter. They could count as 500 units instead of one and it wouldn't matter the way the rule is written. The base rule is written completely clearly that any number of units touching add one disease point. I have seen multiple people say Noxious Nexus will suddenly double the number of disease points you get. No, it won't. Not by how that base rule is written. Noxious Nexus, as is written right now, does nothing. Absolutely nothing. It is if some lorem text, okay? So my guess as to what happened here, and I don't know, is that for a long time in this book's testing, it said each unit and then toward the end, somebody said that's too powerful and they wheeled it back to any and then forgot to change this artifact. Personal take. To me, this one's clear as a bell, but we have to get the FAQ for it because this is gonna cause questions. But the base rule is written very clearly, any. So this artifact does nothing. That's the reading everybody should take. At least among the boons, this page is disappointing. We've really only got one stand out. You hope, if you got six options, you hope for at least two, ideally three, at least half are sufficiently intriguing, sufficiently interesting. Yeah, there's really only one there. So that's disappointing. Yep, agreed. Okay, spells. Let's talk spells. Tyler, before we get into the specifics of spells, what do you think about the magic overall in this book? So as I said, it's quite tame, certainly a first appearance outside of potentially Rock Coven and we'll talk about Rock Coven in a bit. I haven't started writing a list yet. I don't really have a feel for Rock Coven and what we're actually potentially looking at in the potential. There are plenty of spell doms that might laugh at Rock Coven. Iroves, Nagash, auto ambiance, but it feels like a potential trap to lean into it outside of Rock Coven. Just you're looking at a lot of sevens with no bonuses. But there are, with that said, there are a number of good spells. We've seen quite a few people down on the spells. When I was going through them, I was like, oh, wow, that's good, that's good. I was checking off quite a few that I liked, especially I think in this lore that we're about to talk about. Yep. So we'll start with the mortal lore here, but I agree with you completely. I actually like the way the magic works in this book. Nerdle is not an especially magical army. They're not known for powerful spellcasters. They have some interesting spells and completely average spellcasters outside of a couple of tricks that they can do. Great, that's how things should be. I'd love to see the spell doms, honestly pulled back some. Back, right. You know, like I think making magic too powerful is a trap that they've really fall it into. Yeah, I agree with that. So I hope we see this kind of thing wheeled back and continued, right? I think this is the right way to go. It's cool, man, that you actually, like you can get a number of spell cast. Yes. You're not getting, which is a nice trade-off. But I think, you know, yeah, like the guo can be a three, if not a four with an arcane tome. You may never give them an arcane tome, but the potential is there. And yeah, I think that's cool. All right, so what grabs you from the mortal list, Tyler? Yeah, the, let's see. Cloink, Quagmire, we've always discussed how anytime you can screw up mobility, that's extraordinary. So a lot of these we're going to be saying, especially with the spell portal. Yeah. And this is certainly the case here. Yeah. So you've got a 13th tree. The spell portal has some interesting secondary effects in this, by the way too, which we'll get to. We'll get to. Totally. Yeah, one enemy unit within range, 14th range, cast on a seven, visible, roll higher equal to the safe characteristic. So a lot of things are on a three, this game that you'd want to slow down, equal to, so a three up. And the 10 next to your face have move characteristic and subtract two from run and charge rolls. That's a big penalty. If neg one to charge was big, neg two to charge is huge. I said it's on a seven, it's on a five. Yeah, this one's on a five, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely that to me is number one, right? Yeah, on this list. But oh, well, it's got actually maybe a one B. You want to talk about one B? Rancid visitations. Yep. So cast value of six, range of seven, pick one enemy unit within range, visible the cast to roll a dice for each model, that two plus one mortal wounds. So again, spell portal, you're ramping that up to a 25 inch start range, cast value of six, not that bad. I mean, that's just going to clearly potentially nuke a unit even on a unit of 10 bendictors or, you know, name your favorite 10, 15 model. That's going to do a lot of work. Don't have to be in a horde meta for that to be high value. Yeah, it's again, like through the portal, that spell is a nightmare, an utter nightmare, right? Because yes, like the, there are still units that have a lot of bodies that people use for various purposes and boy, does this make them evaporate, right? But again, it's, you know, the magic isn't great. So you're, it's hard to make this your strat. It would have to be a bonus, right? And you know, with all these spells, like with Rancid, it's like, okay, I need a spell portal with Chloe and Quagmire, I don't think you necessarily do. I think it's perfectly usable. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, I think it's just fine. It is a role for a role and it's very army dependent. You know, if you're fighting Stormcast, man, this spell is a huge win, like a huge win. You're basically universally getting this off on a four up, sometimes even a three up. Right, right. So they have two up units in their army. Especially, you're talking about the Chloe and Quagmire? Chloe and Quagmire, yeah. That's equal to. Oh yeah, sorry. Yeah, you're right, equal to or greater. I apologize, you're absolutely right. So three up slash two up. Yeah, thank you, absolutely. But if you're facing somebody like Doc, you know, this spell is basically doing nothing. Right, right. All right. And again, outside of a few specific things we're gonna talk about, magic isn't your strat. It is sprinkles. It's not the ice cream itself because you're not going to be able to rely on it outside of a few very specific cases. Because, you know, on the ransom visitations, I nerded out one evening and went through all whatever we're up to, 25 factions and thinking about list. Where are we in the game in terms of, you know, big units, like units of, how many factions do we commonly see units of 10 or more models? And it's at least, it was like two thirds easy, maybe three fourths. Like it's still very prevalent in the game. Yeah, it's just you don't see as many horde units for obvious reasons. One, the reinforcement point limitation, the, so how much you can actually reinforce units. So generally going above 30 is pretty rare, right? And even then it's, you know, beyond maybe 30 sentinels. And there are units that go to 30 iron drakes. A lot of shooty units, like little shooty wonder dudes go to 30. Who, by the way, will get absolutely demolished by ransom visitations if you get it off against them. Yes, yeah. The other spells here that stood out to you? No, I mean, if you're really playing the disease strat, then sure, gift of disease spreads a lot of disease around, right? Because it's super long range of 21 inches. So you can hit into their, into their line, right? At the jump in most cases. And it's that unit and each other enemy unit within seven inches, it gets the disease fun party started. Right, everybody goes to one. Yeah, so it's fine. It's interesting. Yeah, yeah. Like I said, you probably, especially if you're leaning into it, but bad, like seeing the impact of disease points. Like I'm, I like this spell more than I did initially. Sure. It's, it's like a perfectly fine choice if you've got the space in the casters to take it. Right? I think blades of future faction is obviously it's, I'm glad it's not what it used to be. Cause again, it was this silly warping thing you'd have to bet the farm on. And it was like, come on, jackpot. Yeah. The, but the, but now honestly my answer is it's a hat on a hat. You don't need it. You don't need to be doing disease points on an unmodified hit roll of five or six. You, as I said, you're already in most cases if you, if you have the right units in place, going to push everybody to seven automatically just by fighting them. You know, bad rolls aside. You know what I mean? Sure. But that feels just, it's a hat on a hat. May thought that I had, but I didn't seem like there's enough potential with it is plague drones or generally a, you know, you're looking at missile attacks. So where are you like, you're using plague drones to try to target disease point ramping on a specific hero, let's say with missile attacks, but yeah, I don't know if there's enough there, there to be able to, you know, make that meaningful. For me, it's gift of disease, ransom visitations and cloying clagmire. Cloying, that's a tough thing to say. And cloying clagmire, those are my three that I'd be looking at. I think, I think that makes sense. Yeah. The magnificent one, again, potentially interesting if you're looking to try to do some combo comboing with like OP stench, like we talked about earlier where you're putting the minus one to hit on a specific hero, you know, the Death Star, Shadow Queen, et cetera. And you're delivering your OP stench in a key spot where you've gotten a key spot where, you know, like little things like that, maybe that could come into play but it's situational, it's cast on a seven so it's not an easy one. That's fine, that's my problem with it, right? It's like, that's a lot for, like that's a hard cast for something that people are there going to certainly try to unbind and it's only doing it to the hero. Like, yeah, sure, neg one to casting and unbinding is good. And things that give neg one unbind generally mean you also get your spells off better, right? But they, okay, you know, like against the people you're trying to get it off on, they're going to stop you. And to me, yeah, it's probably, you know, the Rock Coven where you're taking the three and it's kind of like a utility box. All right, which tool am I going to pull out? Maybe Magnificent is one of your tools. Yeah. Where in this situation, you want to, so you have your three casters and you designate, you know, assuming there's a live and you designate which one's going to get plus three to cast. All right, cool. I need to have Magnificent go off so I'm going to get the plus three to cast to the one with Magnificent. And I'm going to send that out through the portal. You know, outside of that, yeah, I doubt it. Right. All right, let's talk demon spells. There's only three of these. I mean, to me, this list is like one and a half spells actually, okay? So demonic fleshy abundance is the new slot machine. Okay? Because it cast on a seven, so it's a hard cast. All right. But you can pick a friendly maggotkin of Nurgle demon unit within range, just within, not wholly within. Okay. And you get to add ones to the wounds characteristic. In other words, you can take your demon wizard and cast fleshy abundance on your group of 20 plague bears. And now they're effectively 90 wounds as long as this is up. Okay. 90 because of the five up board. You're calculating as well. And effective wounds, yes. I'm calculating in the five up board unless they're fighting Sigbold or Dracfoot, I suppose. So never. So they're always effectively 90 wounds. But it is, it's cast on a seven, so it's a rough cast. But my God, does it, is that like, that takes what was already a unit that is a total tar pit. It's just, it's a super tar pit now. Okay. Electroman, I didn't say every unit on the table to seven disease. It's every unit that's fighting, you're gonna push them automatically to seven disease. We'll talk about it. Like if you're choosing the right units, I think that's absolutely what happens. So, and I don't think by the way, there's ever much of a reason to take plague bears above 20, personal taste. Like I think it becomes, like there's a diminishing marginal utility. Oh yeah. 20 takes this buff super well. 20 is effective, is an effective 60 wounds, 40 wounds effective 60 as we'll talk about. And that, and it's not a huge amount of points. You're getting an effective 60 wounds, 40 real wounds for 300 points. Good. All right. And then favored boxes. To me, this would be the funny thing you do if for some reason, do you know where you take favored boxes in my mind? With a demon caster, you summon. Okay. Oh, okay. Because when you summon a demon, you get to pick a spell for them. Oh. Okay. And- What would be the demon caster? I don't know, summon the regular box bearer dude for 12 points here. Spraymer, yeah. If you summon him in, he sits there. Like you summon him in so, so like he's not gonna be able to cast it that round. So whatever, in a future round, he's gonna cast it. I don't care. Play to the double or get in the future, right? But he's the only one who you're gonna care about where he can just like kind of be in position and then cast this thing and not move attack or make other casting unbinding or dispelling rolls where he can then just fully shut that unit down. Right? That's a good idea. It's just kind of like, it'd be a fun pick. Again, total sprinkles play. Let me be super clear. This is the sprinklist of sprinkly play. Okay? And, but it'd be a fun trick. Like, oh, this guy shows up. He has that spell. Ha ha, he did that thing. Gotcha. All right, and you could, you can summon that guy turned to pretty reliably. So it's not. Yeah, so in terms of your list, I doubt you're bringing a pox bringer along in your list. Correct. At 145, he's kind of a not take right now. That's why I said, I think he's gonna mind this too high for what he does. And you're, I would guess most people are always gonna go fleshy abundance on, you know, if they've like a guru. Yeah, you're primary, like if you've got a guru or some of the demon cast, you're probably gonna fleshy abundance. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. And you're gonna just roll for it. Like I said, that's your slot machine. Like, oh, that anvil you were fighting. Brrr. Jackpot meat. You're never killing it. Welcome to the beat zone. Yes. Okay. Let's talk sub factions. Sorry, I'm just crabbing all these for timestamps. Yep. Okay, sub factions. There are six of them. They're all pretty minimal bonuses. Good. Like I was the same way with the storm cast ones. These should be minimal bonuses since they're purely free rules now, right? And, but there are some interesting ones in here. I don't think they're bad. I just think they're minimal. Okay. Since it seems like people are joining and realizing we're on light. Hey everybody, welcome. We're up to sub factions. Glad you're all here. Don't forget to hit like if you just joined. Smash that button. It's super fun. Buttons are fun. Okay. What are you liking? Okay. So, Univisit Wanderer is interesting. If you're going for a hard plague bearer sort of just body strategy, right? Which I think could be the thing you do. That army is very susceptible to alpha bunkering. Very susceptible. But you will with this, like this is the way by the way Noxus Nexus should have been phrased. Okay. Because this one actually phrased it correctly where it says it receives two disease points instead of one for being within blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? Oh, yeah, yeah. Right. Noxus Nexus should just FAQ the wording update to say this. Cause that's clearly what they meant. Right? 10 more. Yeah, it's receives two. Oh yeah. Absolutely. That's simple. Like it just clearly modifies the base rule in the correct way. Right. And so if you were trying to go for sort of a body sync strategy, basically like what people try with the pink, with the pink sync. Okay. This would be the way you would do it and you would take this because it would then make it so anybody fighting you is just basic. Even if you don't have to worry about bonus attacks on your plague bears, you're just really going to put everybody to seven pretty automatically. Right? Because when they're fighting plague bears, the trick is to get plague bears to push them to seven, you have to be giving them plus one attack given that they're on 32 mil basis with one attack each. Right? Now with plus one attack, plague bears will get there easy. But I think that's what that strategy would enable. Right? Okay. The befalling host, the only reason you would do this is if you, is if they end up ruling the FAQ in the wrong way and make the Narl Maw stack. Like be more indicative. I played against this last night the befalling host using exponential. Got Sloppyty round one, a 10 plague bear is round two and a beast of Nurgle round three and beat my Sylvaneth using half of his starting army against basically my entire 2000 points. Now, some incredibly strange things happened that game in my opinion, which I think my opponent would agree with my friend, Trev, but the point being, like he had a Glocken and 20 plague bears that had no impact on the game. Sure. And I basically got stuffed by the rest of his army plus his summoning. So yeah, it felt a little, I mean, I think some people have the view that the problem with this issue is it's either too weak or it's going to be too strong if you do the exponential, but I do think it's... Save the tree talk, but yes, I agree. We'll get there. Oh, the other thing with the befalling host is this does make beasts of chaos, battle line. I think beasts of chaos are bad. I think they're still over pointed, but if you were trying to get away with the cheapest possible battle line, this does do that. I have a difference of opinion on beasts of Nurgle, but yeah, we'll keep going. Cool beans. Chris, you are correct. Droning guard, I like droning guard actually quite a lot because that's because I like plague drones. I think plague drones are actually super good. We'll get into it, but droning guard, you have neg one to hit for target friendly plague drones in the first battle round and any battle round which they're set up. So if you summon them or whatever, or if they ambush in or something. Droning guard also makes plague drones battle line. Right, it's the plague drone thing. If you like plague drones, this is the place to be pretty obvious. Neg one to hit in the first round is good. You know, more anti-alpha strategy stuff. Blessed sons, I absolutely hate. I think it is silly. They have a weaker version of a storm cast rule that already does nothing. Right, yeah. The thunder strike rule. Yeah, I would, again, as we talked about, like this on blight kings is not that meaningful. Like blight kings are very capable of just doing the disease point, and themselves, and if they're dying, this is not gonna, I don't know, it's like, yeah, this doesn't seem like it does enough. Yeah, again, like so much of the, so much of the time you can easily push people to seven. Like I don't know what I'm doing by having these other bites at the apple. So whatever. Right, yeah, and like, you know, if you're getting your blocking blown up, I'm not sure it's gonna feel like good recourse to be rolling 20 dies looking for sixes. Right. You know, as an upside, yeah, it's just weird. Drowned men I think is super sweet. I really like drowned men. So drowned men makes it so pre-game, your lord of afflictions and Puscoil blight lords can move eight inches, basically, in speed. So they get an eight inch pre-game move. Very potent, very, very, very potent. I also love that, like, this also turns Puscoil blight lords into battle line, which is super cool. I think blight lords have some real play in them. And the key is, as we'll get to with the lord of afflictions, he can set up off board, which obviously is a nonbow with this. Okay. Like he can set off off board and take other things with him, like other Puscoil blight lords with him. But I love actually being in drowned men and still having that as my choice. So when I need to sort of null deploy, I can null deploy and just be off. When I wanna alpha bunker my enemy or get up in their face or jump on objectives, I can do that, right? I really love the flexibility of a low drop, you know, blight lord involved. I'm not gonna say like all blight lords, right? Army and what it can do with its deployment. It's a very, very flexible deployment. You've got real power to respond to the scenario slash your enemy army. I think drowned men is super good. I'm trying to remember the blight lords are on ovals, right? I'm trying to remember the base size of blight lords. So what I'm thinking about is I played four and a lord of afflictions and dude, they were very durable, those blight lords. The eight wounds, four plus save, potential bonuses, and then of course the five up. What about this as a potential protection against alpha blocking and pinning? Absolutely it does. So like having this as an option suddenly gives you so much flexibility against your alpha blocking. Are in rounds, but they're 60 millimeter. That's still pretty good, yeah. With four of them, one inch because they're only four, so they're able to do the coherency check. Yeah, I mean, you're still gonna get quite a bit of coverage with that. And if needed, you can have your L a way up there as well. Five, yeah. Yeah, you don't care if you get charged with that unit. Like sure, knock yourself out, go nuts. Go ham. No, absolutely dude, yeah. They were so damn durable in my first experience against them. That's cool. I think drowned men is gonna be a hot choice just because it gives you so much flexibility in your deployment and your ability to respond to your enemy army and your ability to respond to the scenario as I've said. Okay. Filthbringers, I need my, it's a trap meme. Okay. I just think this is a trap in the current meta. There may be, now post, I might eat my words in two weeks. If a lot of the shooting mortal wound units get kicked in the teeth, then maybe I'm more up on this one, okay? But so, okay, here's how it works. You get to include this thing called a rock coven. All right. And a rock coven is just basically three rock bringer sorcerers. And if they're standing near each other, then one of them can get up to plus three to cast. That's the easiest way to explain it, right? Mm-hmm. So, it's only one guy. You can pick one wizard from each rock coven in your army, but it's three little doofuses, right? Yeah. For 360 points. And look, plus three to cast is real strong. Like real strong. You could get up to three casts on that one, arcane tome, cogs, and the built-in. Sure, sure. So you could have that dude pumping out some spells. Don't get me wrong. Like, don't mishear me. It's not that plus three to cast on a potential, you know, single, double, triple caster because of the way things are right now, isn't potent. But it's like, that's a lot banking on a little doofus that can pretty easily be killed and that bonus goes away, right? Something you're down to much less of a bonus. Right. So, I don't know. I'm very, very iffy on that build in the current meta. I think it's strong, but it's gonna be so limited in a world of both snakes and sentinels and nonsense like this. Personal take. Alex said, I wanna look at in detail. I suspect there's not enough gas there at the rock coming built, but I just haven't looked at list yet. Yeah, I mean, there's tricks. Like, and you might be able to, you know, locus of Cundity, D3 Hill, another D3 Hill with rope recovery, if they don't burn down. But I mean, a lot of things are gonna be able to burn off six wounds on a five-up save, even with a five-up board and do that pretty reliably. Yeah, I don't know if there's enough there. Once you get one down, you're now you're at plus two, you get two down, you're at plus one. You've invested so, you know, to make this work, you have to invest quite a bit more beyond the 360 to really make it work. You're, you know, 70 spell portal, 45 cogs, yeah, so. Yeah, and yes, you can take multiple covens. I've seen people ask that question in the chat. Yes, you can. They are a single, but they're not unique. But again, in the current meta, like 720 points for six dorks that are all pretty killable is like, boy, that's a lot. Yeah. You know, I mean, look, it's not that, and there's also a diminishing utility there because your second guy isn't gonna be able to pick up the extra cast type of stuff as easily. I mean, I guess he could be in the center. Yeah, it's just, you know, having the one and ramping him up is probably the right way to go if you want to try this, but I just think, I think this is a neat trick, but I just think it's throwing good money after bad. Ultimate answer. I think drown men is the stand out of all of them. Definitely, yep. Yep. Okay. I have to talk about these. Can we just skip this as usual? We're gonna blow through these quickly. Because I know we need to, yeah, we're gonna have to pick up time, I know. We are, yes. There are these grand strats and battle tactics. There are, most of these are bad as per normal. I mean, here's how, I'm gonna summarize it like this. There are a couple of these that might be interesting, especially in the battle tactics place, but, and some of them are kind of, you can auto complete. So for example, like the droning, you complete this tactic, if there's a different friendly unit with a rot fly mount in each quarter of the battlefield at the end of this turn, like that could be extremely doable, depending on your army build, right? Like if you're in a build where you have plague drones and plague drones, a Lord of Reflections and plus gold light lords, like you could do that without even stretching because keep in mind, you could just be around the center of the table and be in those quadrants easily. And it's sort of an auto complete. Like it's one you can auto do. You have to have the right army construction for it. This is everything I hate about battle tactics and grand strategies in books on display. There are some that are just so bad and you'll never pick them. And there are some that like, if you happen to have the army construction for them, you'll just take it because it's an auto complete. Sure. Like, I don't, yeah, I don't, I don't want to talk about these things. I mean, I'm still- They just made me angry. Okay. So anyways, there you go. I'm sorry, I'm not going to give you deep thoughts on the grand strats and battle tactics. I hate army-specific ones and think they should be banned from tournaments. So that's what I think. There you go. I'll, that's my belief. Corp battalions, these I'm less concerned with as we've talked about in the past. This one's kind of interesting because again, it has a unified that isn't, that I probably isn't broken. So it's up to three small mortal heroes plus then like the unified one is up to three baby heroes. Basically they have to be mortal maggotkin of nergal heroes with a wounds characteristic of less than 10. And then up to six troops. If you were doing a rock coven by the way, this could be an interesting way to to fit those guys into a unified drop with a lot of other mortal units depending on what you were running. I agree with Owen Jackson. TO should ban them. That's right. Stand strong, Owen. He's a smart man. He has a smart man. And, you know, they, they just, so that's kind of interesting one. And then you can do the old rice fold with a magnificent. So, it's cool. Yeah, these are fine. It's fine. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and like we're talking about, it's good to have this one drop option. Yeah, it's got some limitations. You're not taking, not fitting a Magical Lord in this. So some limitations, but I think there's a good one. These are fine. I don't, didn't hate these. They're fine. Okay. Let's get into the units. Here we are. All right, we're, we're doing okay. Let's talk about the units, but we are going to move quickly through these. I mean, some of them we won't need that much discussion about. Big ol' Rodigus. 20 wounds. Now a four inch move with a four up save and a 10 bravery. He is a war master. So he count, he's a bonus general. He's a, he's a bonus Jenny. He is a double cast wizard. He and the great unclean one both have their mountain of loaths and flesh, which is an alternative monstrous rampage that they can basically, it's basically an enhanced stomp much like the mega boss on mawcrusher where you can choose to do it. You pick an enemy unit and on a two up, they just take a flat number of mortal wounds. So four, three, two, one, depending on how wounded the guy is, as opposed to D three. Keep in mind, it is still a monstrous rampage. So units in hunters of the heartlands or in the storm cast sub faction that are immune to these things would still be immune to this. Cause it doesn't say instead of a monstrous rampage, it says you can carry out this monstrous rampage. His still seems unfortunate that like, I don't know. I'm not a fan of hunters being canceled these things out. Sure, sure. Just, yeah. He kicks back disease points when he makes ward saves, but you probably don't need to because this guy actually will basically hit the magic number of attacks. If he's unwounded, if he's unwounded. So, but that's fine. He can, he can, you know, push people back up. He does have a pretty good spell. I really like his spell in the chip damage game here. It synergizes well with what they've got going on. So Delia's your nergal basically just what it was before. Casting value of seven. If successfully cast your real seven dice for each five plus you can pick one different enemy unit that is visible to the caster. Each of those units suffers D three mortal wounds. So that's pretty good. If you're trying to do a chip damage mortal wound strategy just passing around more, hey, take these mortals and these mortals and these mortals. Like, you know, against a unit fighting with blight kings there's pretty easy. That's a pretty easy third source of just mortal wound spread going around. As Chris pointed out, you can mountain of loads and flesh other monsters. That's true. You can't stomp other monsters. So that is a good point. Yeah, that's a great point. And you get to re-roll that spell. Like he actually has, he doesn't have any bonus to cast but he does have a re-roll when he's attempting to cast his own spell. So even though it's on a seven with a re-roll that's actually not bad at all. Like he has a pretty good chance of getting that off. And Ol' Rodigus is 495 points. I think that's right. And there's the rub. There's the rub. He's expensive. Yeah, 495. Great war scroll, just overcasted. Yeah, I think he's, what does he feel like he should be to you? I, right now, I think the Guo might be slightly overcasted as well. And but not too bad. So I'd say Guo, if he's four. Right now they're both 495. Yeah, let's say Guo's 475. Take off 20. Yep. Rodigus should be 450 or 40? You know, like I see a pretty big, a meaningful gap between the two of them. Yep, he has a much better spell, Rodigus does. But there is a meaningful gap here because he's a named character, right? I would tend to, I like those points. Like to me, Rodigus feels like he should be about 450, 455, 445, you know, whatever. It's in that area, it doesn't matter. Like something in that space, right? And the Guo should be 475. That feels about right to me. Seems reasonable. Yep. Okay. I don't think Rodigus is gonna make his way into many lists at this point, Valley. Yeah, I agree. But it's a shame because, but if he comes down. Yes. You know, he's in the right place. And yes, I like I said, didn't you say greater demons should be priced like this? Yes, I think these guys are worth their foreign points. Greater demons should be four to 500 points. Like the fact that bloodthirsters are 200 point idiots is a travesty, right? These guys earned, they're in the 400 to 500 point range. It's just they're slightly too high. Not wildly overcosted. They're not shellaxi or something. Okay. Regular Guo, 18 wounds, four up save, four inch move. Also has the same thing with mountain of lows and flesh. Has the same thing with loaded with corruption. Also a double caster. You still have your choices of how you arm him. His spell is super bad. Yeah, it's super bad. It's a bad spell. It's really dicey, chinemy unit on a four up one, one disease point. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's a bad spell. Let's all just, let's, you know, call it how it is. It should be like a cast of five. Right. Like for that to be on a seven is nonsensical. It's a bad spell. Now, depending on how you arm him, this guy can be one of your hammers. He actually can do damage and we'll talk about it. Okay. He, so you got a couple of different choices here. You got the old bile sword, bell, bile blade, plague veil, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. Okay. So the sort of most damaging build is the bile sword and the flail. The one he's actually armed with in the picture. And I'll show you what that DPS spread looks like on the next slide. Because I, since I, I don't know if I sent this to you with a damage DPS. And, yeah. Okay. Couldn't remember when I added those. So if you're trying to make a damaging one, he can get in there and I'll show him base, but obviously there's other things that could also impact that, right? Like I'm not figuring in even finest hours or something, which he could obviously be once a game. And can have a big impact on a guy who wounds on threes. But he's got a red two, four damage attack. That's not a bad thing. So we'll just start there. Have one. Now, if you go for the bile blade instead, right? So, but this would be the sword and the blade. It's not that big of a difference to your overall damage. Right. Because you only lose one attack on the flail and the flail and the blade have the same profiles other than that they're one attack difference. But then you can choose to suffer a mortal wound and then cast an extra spell. I don't know how often you're gonna do that because I don't know how often you need to be a triple caster, but it's there. It is an option. And you don't sacrifice that much offensive power for it. I think in a lot of cases, it's whether you're interested in trying for an arcane bolt. Dispect is what it, you know, you're looking at fleshy abundance, acoustic shields. Okay. And then what's the third one gonna be? Flaming weapon. Cable. I mean, oh, you'd have to give up. Well, it could be a slot. Sure. You could do a slot for flaming weapon. That would be interesting. Yeah. Yeah, because you could do it as enhancement. Remember, you could be, I mean, I don't think you're gonna take three of these guys anymore, but, but you know, if you can, if you can get into Magnificent anyway, you can get the enhancement slot and take the universal spell. That's cool. And flaming weapon on this dude is pretty strong, by the by. Yeah. Like a neg two, red, five damage attacking, nothing to sneeze at, you know. So, you know, I think the bell is probably the big loser here as it rolls dice and you get an extra contagion point or extra D three. Again, if you're really trying to ramp into the summons, which I think is throwing good money after bad, you know, it's another way to get contagion points, but honestly pass. Right. But yeah, that's real unfortunate. We'll know a lot of people have, you know, they, a lot of people did the bell. So that is a little unfortunate. And it's kind of a little frustrating when something that happens sometimes, you know, you like, you get a new or scroll and there's what was their good choice is now the obvious worst choice. Yeah. Yeah, I think the things you'd be wanting him to cast would look like this, plushie abundance, mystic shield, flaming weapon, arcane bolt. So there are four potential spells he could be interested in casting. Right. So I'm not gonna say never you need to go to a three cast. And I think that that's probably the way that, like if I was building this guy, I would build it with the big blade and the little blade basically, just so I had the option. Cause I'm not losing that much offensive power with one attack, but I'm gaining a lot more versatility. So, and some part of Nurgle spell casting is just throwing a bunch of disease at the wall and seeing what sticks. Sure. All right, let's look at his damage breakdown. So the guo's damage against the four up save is six, five up is eight. This is, by the way, this is armed with, in his most damaging way. So this is armed with the blade and the flail. And this is just- Sort of flail, yeah. Sorry, yeah, the big sword and the flail. Yes, sorry. And so you can see a safe spread here. Average of six against the four up. And then two, four, six, eight, 10, 12. That's pretty straight calculation. If you give him, when you give him all out of attack, it actually jumps pretty considerably up to seven and a half against the four up, 10 against the five up, so on and so forth. So he's what I would call a minor hammer, right? He can do some damage. Now again, this is all just base stuff. If he's in his, if he's having his best Tuesday ever, if he's got flaming weapon on, right? Those things do move the number here a lot, right? And there's quite a few of those things, yeah, that you can think about with this guy. Right. Like Chris's excellent point about the Mountain of the Loose and Flesh, if you're going against a monster, cool potential four mortal wounds there. The Noxious Bile, dude. That, I did eight damage, I'm mentioning fulminators a lot. Like I was just, things kept happening in my poor fulminators. Maybe they deserve it at their current point value. But I think it did, or Brett did like eight damage with Noxious Bile to fulminators. Like what just happens? Now again, let's wheel this back a second. Cause when people see those numbers, they might think, like Assistant Ref says like 500 points for five to seven damage doesn't seem very strong. But again, that's not really the real picture here because he also has Mountain of the Loose and Flesh doing four wounds. He also has, this guy easily hits the attacks to put you at seven on his own. Cause the host of nerklings. I didn't mention them cause they're, I didn't even factor them into the attack profile actually. I just assumed they were zero damage. I didn't actually write them into the, that damage profile does not have host of nerklings figured in just so we're all clear. Cause I'm just assuming them to be zero damage. But because they make 15 attacks, they're just like instantly you're at seven. Like that plus his, his other stacks. You know, if you have the bile sword and the flail, why, what magic number have we hit? Why it's 24, right? The exact number you need to, to insta ramp to seven basically on, on in the middle of the bill curve of roles. Right. And so he's going to do four mortals with his, his loathsome flesh. He's going to do three or four mortals with his disease tokens. He's going to do, you know, six to 10, 11 damage depending on how he's kitted and what buffs he has up with his weapons. Like that's a pretty reasonable hammer all of a sudden. Noxious bile, if it's in range, it's an average of four damage. Right. He has his range attack. Yes, exactly. It's another, it's another four damage on average, right? Cause it is an egg three rend spit. It's very random, super random spitting attack, but it's more stuff, right? So like it's a lot of different damage sources all combining together on this guy. He doesn't have like the single profile that's just all of a sudden you're at a million. If you gave him the wither stab, suddenly his disease is doing more damage, right? And he can be a perfectly great wither stab carrier. Right. So the point is, this is the, oops, sorry. This is the base, but keep in mind on top of this base, you get a lot of other stuff stacked in there. He's doing his mountain, he's doing his spit. He's doing his disease, you know, you're getting your disease tokens, right? So there's a lot. Okay. But I thought it was interesting to actually talk about the base damage as well. So we could have a clear picture of how these things work cause we've already talked about what disease does and mountain is just a number that's written down. Absolutely. Yeah, I really liked this guy, dude. I think the Google is really interesting. Again, he's slightly too expensive, but I think he's interesting. I think he's a piece that's got some play. Okay. Pox Bringer-Herald, he's 145 right now. That sounds right. Yep, that's right. His new neat trick is that if he fights, he can make a plague bearer host fight as well. Yeah, I'm shrinking that around more. In whatever order they want. So basically they both get to go to one. It's funny that we saw that update in the Soul of Light Gravelord thing as well. Yeah. They've clearly found a mechanic they like, like chaining the weak foot hero with the unit, which is a perfectly fine mechanic because part of the problem was these guys are always terrible and like the regular foot heroes, you never want to attack first with them. So you always attack with the unit and then these guys just get attacked and die. So, you know. That's good. It's a good idea. But he's just over-costed. Like at 145 for a five wound, four up save, five up average save, single caster, he's not doing enough in my book. His spell is, it's fine. Like it's interesting in that its range is infinite. But limited by being near a plague bearer host. Okay. So if successfully cast pick one enemy unit that is within three inches of a friendly plague bearer host that is visible to the caster and then that enemy unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. Right. So again, he could be anywhere. He could be a million miles away. As long as he can see the unit and they're near plague bears, he can like spice another D3 on there. It's not the worst spell ever written, certainly. But it's just like, okay. Yeah, this guy felt like pretty big mess to me at the current point value. Right. And so what do you think? 110? What's head to 120? Yeah. He's a tough little caster. Might look at this guy. He doesn't, like his offense is basically zero damage. Like if he fights, you know, he's not, he's a tough little bugger for a five-wound dude but he's still a five-wound dude. Right. Okay. Epidemius, the old tally man, the worst sculpt in the range somehow this still exists. Amazing. So bad. Okay. Let's talk about Epidemius because this guy's really confusing and I think he threw a lot of people for a loop. All right. Epidemius is funny because he in combat can actually on his own spread a lot of disease tokens because of his stupid nurglings like he makes 13 attacks, which is hilarious. Oh yeah. And, but his effect is really complicated. Hey Sergio, how are you doing? Good to see you brother. His ability is the tally man. Okay. Now I'm gonna read this through because this is gonna trick people. At the start of your hero phase, if this unit is on the battlefield, roll the following number of dice for each of the following units and terrain features that are visible to this unit. Three dice for each friendly guo, two dice for each friendly plague bearer host, one dice for each other friendly magikin and nervel unit. Okay. So whatever you've got, you're gonna accumulate some pile of dice together. Okay. For each five plus add one to the tally of new diseases kept by epidemias to a maximum tally of seven. Each new disease that is recorded allows you to re-roll one ward roll, casting roll, dispelling roll or unbinding roll you make for a friendly magikin of nervel unit. All right. The trick here, Tyler, is that this is actually a one-time effect that does not refill because he adds the new diseases to a maximum of seven. It doesn't expend the resource. He doesn't re, like it doesn't burn it off. So once you get to seven, you could do that round one. Start at first to your phase, you roll the die, you got up to seven and boom. All of a sudden he's, that's it. Now, if I was trying to lean into a spell casting type build. Exactly. Then I might see the way to get him in there. He's won 45 for everything. 45, yeah. That was my first thought too. This guy in Rockhaven potentially, yeah, to help turn that on a little bit more. Yep. And he, you know, like passing out seven re-rolls to cast over the course of the game is a perfectly good effect. But that's all that's gonna be basically used for. I mean, maybe unbinding here or there. All right. You're not gonna re-roll ward rolls. You're not re-rolling five ups or maybe occasionally a four up. Before a bow. You're gonna use it to re-roll your casts if you're trying to do a magic army. That's it. So you get, taking him, what you're banking on is you're taking a 145 point hero that over the course of the game gives you seven re-rolls to cast. That's it. That's the thing. Yeah. I just see him in that. I have a hard time seeing this guy outside of Rockhaven. At Rockhaven list. That's the only thing that I find attractive for 145 points. Yeah. Yep. It's just that the re-rolling a seven cast in this meta is still not reliable enough in all this equal, in my opinion, 145 points on a lead army. That's just like any Stormcast army. You have to use your points very carefully. I mean, you always have to, but yeah. Yeah, that's so weirdly worded this one. It is very strange. Finally got to the point at the end of the designer's note. Basically makes it clear. Yes. It's as you said, ultimate decision, pass. Yeah. It's keep moving. Let's talk about two super awesome bros, just high-fiving each other. Like literally they're high-fiving each other, right? Cause one's got to stick up like this and one's got to scroll up like that. We got next. Yeah, power bros. Oh, that's two little dorks. Yeah, here we go. These two little dummies are so good. I painted up the Spoil Fox Scrivener over the weekend, actually. I hope that. Okay. Fantastic models. I do love these models. They really are beautiful models. All right, so the Scrivener is 120 points and the Slavity is 130. So let's set that in our minds. As we talk about these four inch move, five wound, five up save, five up after save, heal one wound every hero phase, heroes. They're very similar to how they used to be, but there are some changes worth mentioning here. Spoil Fox obviously only works on plague bear hosts. Now plague bear host, meaning plague bears, the specific thing. Yeah, I think that, I don't know, that seems unfortunate, man. Like we need to remove the plague drone synergy. Right, no swaggy because you only go up to seven maximum and once you're at seven, you stop. That's the most new diseases he can record and you don't expend to them. You don't expend any of that resource to get the re-roll. It's not like you're down to six because you used one of the re-rolls. Once you're at seven, you're at seven and that gives you seven re-rolls, that's it. If you don't get a seven around one in your next year phase, you can roll and try to go up to seven. That's what it does. Okay, Spoil Fox is only on plague bear hosts now and basically he has plus one attack, plus one to rend or plus one to save. Okay, it's plus one attack. That's it, that's all you're ever doing. Spoil Fox follows your plague bears around, ramps them to two attacks so that now a unit of 20 on their 32 mils with their one inch reach, if even if you've got like 10 of them in combat or 11 of them in combat, you can still pretty easily ramp people to seven disease tokens because they make two attacks each plus the one from the chain. So they go to 21, 23 attacks, somewhere like that. That's it. That's his purpose. You get no damage out of that. Okay. Mm-hmm. To be fair. It can help with your mortal wounds, the synergy with Sloppyty. If you're choosing not to do the canceling pylon, which I've talked a lot about that already, how powerful I think that is gonna continue to be. Sure. Yeah, that can get you more dice on your, more wound rolls coming out for your mortal wounds and sixes since they changed the wound roll on Sloppyty. Dude, should this not just still be plague bears? Why did we need to remove this synergy with plague drones? It's an odd choice. I don't know. I don't know. I think he's still good because I think plague bears are super good. So hence the thing that's meant to buckle the leg bears is still super good. Right? So like, that's fine. And you know, these guys are summonable. They're the cheap summon on seven points. And to me, they're the hot summon because you can fairly easily get in a build where you can summon one of these dudes around even without multiplying trees. You can get to a point. And like, that's not a bad choice, by the by. So because the spoilpox applies his benefit at the start of the combat phase as does Sloppyty. So if you summon them in the right position in the movement phase, they can still apply their bonus the round they showed up. Exactly. Right. Yeah, I like Sloppyty more than spoilpox now. But again, it's mainly about the loss of synergy with plague drones. And yeah, that don't, in just in terms of list building, I would go to Sloppyty number one, spoilpox number two. Like if I'm pressed for points, if I can't fit both, I would go to Sloppyty in the actual list. And then yeah, spoilpox, maybe he gets summoned. He's the first piece to get summoned. If you don't need another spoilpox. I could see, I could see argues the other way. I'm more of a spoilpox fan myself. But again, it's six to one half. It doesn't have another. They both have value, right? I'm really frustrated by the whole plague drone. To me, if they still have this synergy with spoilpox, that makes plague drones sufficiently intriguing to me. But it sounds like you're a little higher on them. So yeah, I'm looking forward to that. Yep. Sloppyty's abilities did change slightly. So he does still affect Nurgle Demon unit. So he has a wider swath of what he can buff. And again, it's at the start of the combat phase. So you can summon him and then immediately apply. He's a, he's another great summon for seven points. And he, his, his songs are a little different now. It's, he can add one to wound rolls for the demon unit, which actually isn't bad. Like that, that can be a pretty potent song. He can make it so sixes to wound our mortals. That way it's not conflicting with the, with the disease application. And of course, he's got my love as like a ripe, ripe fart, as always the stopping pylon. The thing I would say is stopping pylon sometimes means everything and sometimes means absolutely nothing. Sure. I guess someone who has played plenty of slanesh in the new edition, where that's your main locus ability. The number of times where that ability has meant bupkiss, right? Because I'm fighting like two things or one thing or a unit of three things that are all already on me and don't need to pile in anymore. Like they're where they want to be. And I tell them, I can't pile in. They're like, okay, I'll just kill you. How's that sound? Right. So it very much depends. Like there's sometimes where it's going to be so powerful, so powerful. And there's sometimes where it's just going to be completely nothing. And so I actually like that he's got the other options because the plus one to wound on Nurgle Demons can actually do some decent work there. Yeah, so. Friendly Nurgle Demon. So, I mean, you're kind of getting at this, but it's a lot of goo, great and clean one. What's one wound roll? Sure, sounds amazing, right? Friendly Nurgle Demon. Yeah, that works there. Yep. Yeah, so that could certainly help out the output outside of your finest hour. So yeah, you can have your goo on threes and twos with the, or actually, I think the little blade is threes and threes. So it'd be threes and twos, and I think twos and twos in that case to check it out. Yeah, absolutely, he could just be, he could be the little personal court jester for the goo-o. Just turning your, again, it's another one of those potential buffs that can be on the goo-o that turns them into a real hammer, right? By the way, you're not married to him, because he can also then turn and apply that to some other unit, right? Like there's versatility there. And yes, he is also a totem now. So he has an 18 inch command range, which is good. So both of these dudes are great. They're great summons at seven points. They're solid for their actual points, 120 and 130. Yeah, they're on a five up, five up, but okay. Again, like if people waste their time shooting your dumb spoilpoxes and slobby vilepipers, things you can resummon pretty easy, like it's a choice. I can tell you, if I was playing my Nergal army and the sentinels are long strikes, we're like targeting my spoilpoxes and slobbyes and letting the rest of my army just roam free, I've won that game instantly, so okay. All right, plaguebearers, let's talk about these boys they had a big change, big change. Assistant ref, yes it does. Plaguebearers, four inch move, six up save down from a five up, 10 bravery still obviously, but now two wounds, so you get 20 wounds with a five up ward save that does heal a wound every round. So if you've got an odd wounded guy in your hero phase, hey, that goes away. Kind of a fun, odd little thing that happens there every so often. And their only special rule now effectively is subtract one from hit rolls for attacks made with missile weapons that target this unit. They make one attack on fours and threes, no run one damage. They are now fighting with pinks for best of the baby demons, like of the little core demon units. I think pinks are still better. That might not be true for long, depending on the winter balance update. But I think plaguebearers are so amazing. Why do I love plaguebearers? Let me talk about this. I think they're best in the unit of 20. 20 is exactly the right number. You use one reinforcement point to get a unit of 20 dudes that are quite tough, that are effectively 60 wounds. I'm just gonna discount their save entirely and assume they don't have a save. Okay, they're just relying on the five up ward and you're effectively getting 60 wounds for 300 points. It's a great ratio. It's not pink ratio, but it's a great ratio. With the support of a, with the support of the Scrivener, turning them onto two attacks, the trick is whatever they're fighting, they will just put to seven disease tokens. Because they'll be making, like I said, 21 to 25 attacks, kind of depending where they're at, all right? The fact they have no save is irrelevant. They're just cheap meat and they're really well pointed cheap meat that does attrition pretty well because they just sit there and grind people. If they happen to get in a fight with something with a low save, they'll do some damage. Okay, with a plus one attack. Not gonna be a lot, but they'll do some, right? And so it's just a really, really potent perfect anvil. Like, I like things that fill a role really well and they do it. They're a giant meat sponge that can take damage. By the way, life swarm on these dudes is pretty cool too. Oh yeah, good item. Double tapping that back up, because you're getting so much efficacy back out of them, right, when you pop a couple back in the unit. Just even a couple guys back in the unit is potent in what it adds. They absorb fleshy abundance so amazingly well. I mean, I think that's why you're gonna, I think a lot of sort of mixed list where you've got Lord of Fliction and you've got some blikings and or some blightlords probably want at 20 at Plague Bearers, at part of that list. They just sit there and hold really well. I like, again, they're not the sexiest thing in the world. They don't blow stuff up. They're certainly not a hammer, but they're a great anvil. And I like things that fill a role well and these guys fill a role really well. So in the two games so far, I've been very impressed by them. They don't do damage other than disease points. Yeah, you might pop off, you can get lucky on your wound roll, maybe all at attack, you can spare it. I mean, you can even save stack a little bit, you know, like Missed Shield on 20 and then all at defense, cool. So you might be on a five up, five up, which helps with their durability. Like you can save stack, get to a five up, that's kind of interesting. I've seen that on 20 and it helped make them even more durable. I'd cancel that run. So but yeah, they're not there to do damage, but just the various applications that happen, the unit is durable. Like an example from last night, I sent in three Kurnoth swords that they're still not even the best thing in that book outside of the Warsaw Revenant, Mortal Wound Bomb through the Spell Portal. A hundred of swords are incredible. They did a lot of work, but I didn't kill one Plague Bear. So they were tied up. And that meant that if my opponent got the next turn, the next priority, I was gonna be in range to get hit, you know, get charged. Whereas if I killed that last Plague Bear, I would have been able to redeploy. And he was gonna be far enough white. So like little things like that that we have kept coming up that make a big impact on a game, on a game's results. Yeah, it's just hard to do 60 damage to a unit. Like no one else to say. That's a lot of damage. Like tying things down. Yeah, it is. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, pretty much that straight forward. Horticulus, nope, pass, easy. I played against him and again, we were doing the exponential, the fouling host. He was in the list. I think he's kind of interesting with Beast of Nurgle. You're really down on Beast of Nurgle, and we'll hire on them. He's overcasted. Yes, he's 225 for a named guy who's been pushed to 10 wounds, which is worse than nine wounds. Oh God, I know. Yeah, this guy needs to be nine. Yes. So he needs to get cheaper. But I generally like what they've done with him. I like this synergy with Beast of Nurgle. The profiles are fine. He's got a couple of cool tricks. They can guard him, Nurgle is, you know, that's fine. I like this guy, but he's just overcasted. I think this synergy with Beast is cool. Yeah, I just, I'm down on Beast's, hence I'm down on him. Again, it's the inverse of the Scrivener thing. Right? So there you go. Yeah, I just, I would love to be proved wrong with this guy, but I don't see him. The exception here will be, I guess if they rule the feculent Narlmaw's wrong, where they become multiplicative, then okay. Sure. Then it's just going to be a backboard line of trees. Everybody's going to be fighting on the edge of the Garden of Nurgle as there's a backboard line of trees from the Fowling host and Articulus. And suddenly you're just easy auto-genning nine points around, you know, just off your stupid trees. And then more once you get to four, 16, 25, like it's not bad. There's it. As we're going through it, yeah. Like there's multiple ways to get extra contagion points. Like it's not just the trees. Right. Like you could, you could really, if you're doing the exponential thing, you could really lean into that. It's going to get wild quickly. Yeah, and again, I think the extra contagion point thing is throwing good money after bad, which by the way, good summoning shouldn't be the strat. It shouldn't be a strat in this game. You shouldn't like the strat shouldn't be, I'm going to win by making, by fighting your 2000 point army with my 3000 point army, that or my 4000 point army, like, okay. All right. Bees of Nurgle. Tyler, you're up on these guys. Defend them. Okay. So we didn't say it. Horticulus is giving a real charge roll. Yeah, real charge rolls. Yeah, only the 14 plus one hit. They're not elite. So that, what? That takes them from fours to threes to hit. Okay. So five, eight wounds, five inch move, five up save, five plus ward attacks, a fours, threes, minus one rent, two damage. Six attacks, four threes, no rent, one damage. This unit can run or retreat and still charge later in the same turn. In addition, when this unit retreats, it can pass across other models in the same manner a model can fly, that can fly. Right there, anything, you know, whenever you see run in charge, cool. That's intriguing. Now you have, and the Foundling hosts, you can make them battle the line. So you, yeah, you could double reinforce. You could get a unit of three so you could all out attack on a unit of three. Now they're at threes and threes. They are a demon, so they can benefit from that, add one to wound rolls from Slopity if he's in range. So now they could be at threes and twos. So that could be 12 attacks right there, threes and twos, minus, I'm giving the best case example. Just kind of try to give people a sense of like what you could do. Right. You can auto run. So now it's a five and auto run six. So that's 11 inch plus a charge. In this army, that's a really great threat range. And you know, that's something to be respected. Eight wounds, that's a lot of wounds that they count as two models each. So unit of six encounters, yeah, as six models. Well, you know, it is, because Horticulus is overcosted, right now that is painful. You like don't know, are you gonna take these outside of a build without Horticulus? I'm not sure. Having played them last night, I was impressed by the layers of damage that they're capable of. You know, the number of dice they can roll, ramp up disease points, the retreating to do mortal wounds was meaningful. Going over, it is, when the student retreats can pass across other models. What's that? On a four plus they suffer. Before this year, retreats for dice for each enemy within three inches on a four plus they get a disease point. And then they have impact, mortal hits, mortal wounds on a two up for each one, for D three. Was it the impact hits? Oh yeah, like again, two or three of these things come charging in, two up, D three models each time. It was just, it was, it was pretty solid. So 110 points for one of these things. It faced three of them. They were in three individual ones as opposed to the big unit of three. I don't know man, like yeah, I was pretty impressed. Okay, I'm not gonna bother to rebut it for right now. I'll simply say, keep that in mind as we move to other units that you're not taking because you took this guy, okay? That's what I'll say. Because ultimately where he loses his internal balance. That's my argument. The meaning, there's just better choices. Correct, meaning there's better ways to spend points. Yes. Yeah, yeah. I mean that's probably fair. Like everywhere I look, people are massively down on being some Nurgle. And when I looked on the paper, I thought they were better and then they over-performed a little bit. Yeah, like they were better than I thought they were on paper. Sure, maybe they're better than trashed here, but you know, okay. Better than bad is, could still be bad. They're better than awful, they're just bad. Okay, speaking of better than bad, Nurglings. So Nurglings are bad. You want to defend Nurglings at all? You want to show up with this one? That's the worst. So this is the one that a lot of people seem to be high on Nurglings. I'm not. Like I don't see it with Nurglings. You know, okay, so maybe you take one in the list and you use it as like set up a screen maybe where you're like bringing in gut rot or lord of afflictions and you're hoping that a train feature is in the right place and you set up a screeners. Maybe it's like a savage spearhead play, you know, like you're taking it in the list for savage spearheads. Yeah, in general, I'm not really keen on Nurglings. So let me see if I can defend them. I'll take that, I'll take the reason you would take them. You get three of these guys in a unit for 105 points. Now they are only four wounds so they're not counting as two each. So they're just three dudes when it comes to objectives, right? You do, if they happen be wounded you do heal them all up, so that's fine. And as a unit they would make 15 attacks which basically would do no actual damage because it's on fives and fives but it can cause a fair number of disease points. It's not at the magic 24 number but it's still a decent number of attacks and can be decently good. The actual reason you would take them is hidden infestations, right? Because you can, like again, they could be part of a null deploy strategy where you have them off board and the advantage to these guys, the disadvantage is they have to come in in the first movement phase, right? You don't have a choice. And, but they can pop out of terrain features which is interesting because yes, as you mentioned, like as a savage spearhead strategy or something like that, right? They can pop out and be chaff in the way. They can pop out and prevent an alpha bunker. They can pop out and complete a savage spearhead. They can be a component that could be potent in the battle tactic game, okay? But, I would need to see somebody really use these for me to be sold on them, okay? And it's the come in first turn. They're not like a true ambushing unit that I can hold and do turn one, two, or three. It's the fact that I have to take them, right? Right away, out, you know? And any bonuses to these guys to like their actual fighting ability is obviously pointless, like. But, they are interesting in that, you know, they can be a unit that can be quite versatile in where it's set up on the board, right? So, they're not worthless, okay? I'm not gonna say that. At 105, I think they're maybe right on the line for me. I was a little too strong when I said bad just to provoke it, right? But, I think that it's gonna depend a lot on like, what does the terrain look like on your board? Where is it placed? How is it placed? Right, that could have a big impact on how useful nerflings are. Right, yeah, yeah, it's that variability, yeah. Yeah, they're a little, like, I like them a lot more. They're a little cheaper. But, yeah, I think right on the line is a good description for them. And yeah, need to see them play. Haven't played against them yet. Done a great field, but yeah. Yep, they're, like I said, they're, I don't think they're worthless, not at all. I think they're cute. I mean, they are the cutest thing in the army. Let's all be honest about that. But, I rate them a five out of 10, how about that? Fair enough. I think they could be useful in the right situations. Maybe it's worth a unit of them just to have the play. Right, as I'm like thinking about my 2,000 points, I could see maybe a unit of them in a couple of different builds to maybe just have the option, the threat, the chance at that play. Need to get that second unit in for Savage to be your head, you know, whatever, whatever, right, to make the battle tactics happen. But it is gonna be very terrain dependent, right? Okay. Plague drones. All right, I'll take the lead on these guys because I'm gonna defend these guys. We need to move a little quicker, by the way. We're running long. Okay. Okay, plague drones. Eight inch move, five wounds, five up save. I love these guys. I love these guys. First of all, a unit of three for 200 points. They can be battle line in drone and guard. I love them with an egg one to hit in the first turn. I think that's super sweet. They make a bunch of attacks, bunch of attacks. They make 25 attacks as a unit. So right away we're at the magic number. Now, in addition to that, they also have their little ranged attack where they, that if you know, they're within, like what you wanna ostensibly have happen is you move them up to within range of two units, you throw all your death heads, right? At one unit because the attack characteristic of the death head is equal to the number of models in the target unit to a maximum of seven. So ideally you wanna shoot at at least a 10 model unit, right? And then get 21 ranged attacks. So you can sort of just push that one. Like there's a bunch of disease tokens on that unit. Now I charge these guys, fight them. There's a bunch of disease tokens on those guys, right? And yes, they have no rent. So you need to be careful about your target, right? Like, sure, against a high armor target, it's whatever, but they count as six for objectives because of those five wounds, okay? And I like that. Six is a pretty magic number in the game right now because there are a lot of five model units running around. Model units, yeah. And it means that if these guys sit around on an objective, they can't just body block you off of it. And that's interesting. And at 200 points, these guys are like actually pretty tough. It's 15 wounds on a five up, five up. Not the toughest thing in the universe, but tough it out. I mean, that's, yeah, in terms of wounds and point value, that's pretty good point value, I think, with the durability that we're talking about. There are a number of wounds and the, yeah, five up. That's pretty good. And I like that versus the Puscoils, these guys count as six on the objectives where often you're similarly, you know, you're similar unit of Puscoils, right? It's going to count as four. Yeah, right. I also like that they're 20 points cheaper than Puscoils. Now, again, they're just a disease, like they're a great disease vector. That against low armor targets, by the way, can actually do some work, right? I would point out these guys are Nurgle Demons. You can give them the Sloppy Song that makes it so sixes to wound, do mortal wounds on these guys. And that actually makes them be able to do some real damage in melee, in addition to passing out a ton of disease tokens. All right. And you just don't, they're not a huge investment, right? The fact that you can get disease tokens on two units, both of them are probably getting to a pretty high number. Like one is getting to probably five, depending on the unit you target and how many models it has, one is certainly getting to seven. I like it. We'll chat about units having a role. And I can see a unit of three of these having a role in an army, the way that you're describing it. Yeah. Yeah, I like three of these or two by three of these. That's my play. I think they're super useful because they are speedier than the average Nurgle, obviously, and yeah, I think they can do work. I think if people give play drones to try, they'll be surprised. I think they've got potential. Yeah, no, it's two points, man. Yeah, cool. They absorb buffs well, they move well and they apply the main, like they do the main thing the army wants to do well. And they're very dangerous to certain types of units. And you could put them in a faction where they're battling and they get nagged when they hit the turn, they show up. So, there you go. Oh, yeah, yeah, good points. The Glutkin, oh boy, oh boy. Seven-hour points, he's over-costed. Why is he seven-hour points? Okay, we'll talk about his damage in a second. We're gonna let's leave the damage aside. 20 wounds, five-inch move, four up save, nine bravery. And yes, by the way, Jerm said they can deep strike too, right? Yes, keep in mind, play drones can also be deep struck with Lord of the Flexions. I didn't mention it, I was gonna mention it on him, but yes, it's worth mentioning. Okay, so this dude now has the five up. He's a war master, so he's a bonus Jenny, double cast wizard, his horrific opponent rule is completely stupid, so that's fine. It will once in a while do a little something, but it's basically worthless because it's a bravery check on 2D6. So congratulations on that. The, he has a bigger mountain of loathsome flesh, effectively, which starts at five mortal wounds, which is cool, fine. He has a mortal fleshy abundance called abundance of flesh, but you can't do it to plague barriers, you can only do it to mortal units, worth noting the difference there. So there's one for your mortals, one for your demons. The base spell only works on demons. This one only works on, this one only works on mortals. Mortals? Yeah, mortals, yeah. I mentioned Brad in the game that we got in, he made the point yesterday that this would be a way to take Blykings up to counting us two models. Yes, yes it would, it would do that. I think that's interesting. Mr. Dijakir said death and demons, the only ones with high bravery. Oh, I mean, sure. All of death, so one whole great alliance. Basically all of chaos is like eight, nine, 10 bravery. So that's two whole grand factions. And then there's plenty of other people who are rocking eight, nine, 10s and trying to beat that on, trying to equal or beat that is often a difficult thing. A lot of high bravery people in the game. Starborn, Seraphon, rock around on 10s. Like there's a good amount of high bravery in the game. Trust me, as somebody who runs the Slinash army where almost everything is key to rolling 2D6 against their bravery, those abilities are worthless. Okay, great against Iron Jaws or something or Skaven or Kits, you know, those super powerful armies, the last two. Tyler, why do you take this guy? Will you take this guy for the Blitzkrieg? That's it, Blightkrieg, sorry. That's it, that's why you took him. He's a super powerful ability. You can use this command ability at the end of the enemy movement phase. If this unit, end of the enemy movement phase. It's such a crazy timing. If this unit is within 12 inches of an enemy unit, the command must be issued from this unit and must be received by another friendly maggotkin of Nergal unit that is within 12 inches of an enemy unit, not of him, of the enemy unit, right? So he has to be within 12 and they have to be within 12, but they can be far apart. Right. This unit and the unit that received the command can both charge. So an off turn in the enemy movement phase charge that gets around on Lichel, that much like it's a slightly different timing than Ironsons, but it'll have a lot of the same effect right where it's like, oh, you didn't wanna fight the Glotkin and this other Skaven and Orgots. You tried to get into my other unit that you thought you could kill. Too bad, we're coming. Right. We in. Yeah. Okay, if anybody's, if you've played Ironsons, Ironsons, you know how powerful this ability is to charge off turn. It's crazy powerful. The problem is 700 points, woof, right? Yes. But it's a heck of a rule. I felt like the biggest miss in the book point was to me. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if you have ratio wise, but yeah, his, yeah, great war scroll, amazing role. We could talk for a while about it, but yeah, I mean, something I haven't played, I haven't played against him, but he wasn't relevant in the game that it would be played last night. So I haven't really got a feel for this, but yeah, it just feels like it's gonna be very similar to Ironsons and it's amazingly impactful. Ironsons, what do you think this guy should be? Points 700 right now. Probably like 600. He should probably come down 100 points, 600, 620. It feels like he needs to come down quite a bit. Yeah. Like, I think that, yeah, I was thinking around 600 for this guy. Does he make it? But I mean, he's super hard. Like, let's not forget, this guy has 20 wounds all with a five up after save, right? Who does decent damage? He does, yeah, he does. He's potent, but he's just probably not 200 points more potent than a great unclean one. Maybe 620, somewhere in that range, but it does feel like he needs a sizable decrease from 700. He's what he says, heals 2D3, he's assuming you heroic recovery him as well, which is very easily by the bravery of nine. Like, he's not going to die. It is very hard to kill this model, right? If you focus your heroic recovery on this guy, I mean, just good Lord, this dude is hard to bring down. He brings a lot to the table, you know? Blight Creek is a very, like, it's so hard to read because so much of his points are wrapped up in Blight Creek. Right. And, you know, they don't both need to charge the same unit there, Tyler, right? Exactly, yeah. We gotta get some games in and look at some lists and kind of get a feel for how impactful this could be, but yeah, it's fascinating. Yeah. Let's look at his damage real quick. So, against a 4-up save, he does an average of 10 damage just based on his War Scroll, 10 and a half damage. That's just like if you're rolling him straight with no buffs whatsoever, none, okay? If he just all-out attacks, he goes up to 13 damage. So, you know, he does damage, he's a hammer, but I don't know that he's doing 700 points for it. That's the trick, right? That's the trick, right. So, it's tough. That's such a hard points value to justify, right? He's up in like the God level points. And understanding how good Blight Creek is is what this is. And my honest answer is he needs a lot of testing to know where exactly he should go to. Yeah, I agree. Yep. Cool. Cool. All right, Orgots, my dog. Here we go. Oh, yeah. Let the dog out, baby. Orgots, demon spew. This is my, this is my pick of the week, right here. I love how the internet's all agreed. This is, yeah, the pick of the book. Three Hyundai on the points. He's in that perfect realm. We love our 300-point heroes here at Warhammer Weekly. 14 wounds with an eight-inch move and a three-up, beautiful three-up base save. He's a war master, so he counts as a bonus general. He kicks back mortal wounds on his ward save, not disease points. He goes straight to the action and he gives you 10 free command points a game. And against a four-up save, he does an average of seven and a half damage, basically. My man. I love this guy. Points for damage on the grab. This guy on the spreadsheet. This guy is the most efficient in the book. Points for damage. Yep. Yep, he's got big, he's got good number. Like all the Magoth lords now, he's got a good number of Ren 2 damage three attacks, but he also has the axe to back it up. He can kick a fair amount back with his acid ticker. The free command point thing is fantastic. The bonus general thing is fantastic. He's super tough. He takes save stacking really well. Yeah, I love this dude. He's great. Like, I'm so glad to see the Magoth lords actually be worth playing now. It's the most exciting thing because they've been trashed for far too long. So this guy's great. Blowab, he's a caster version, 13 wounds on a four-up. Blowab, Blowab is also 300. What's interesting about him is that he has plus one to cast. Indeed. And he gives neg one to cast to enemy units if they're within range. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, I mean, that's gonna happen a lot because you generally are gonna feel fine about having this guy up in your opponent's grill with the rest of your army. This guy's, I experienced it last night. He is quite tanky. Like I said, he tanked five sides and I did four damage to him. Plus two stacking. And I think he was on the round with the four-up ward, the four-up ward rounds. Yeah. And his spell is interesting in what it can do, especially how it tracks along with disease tokens and stuff like that. So, yeah. He's got some play. He's got some play. When I initially read him, I didn't like this guy, but I've come around on him. At 300, I think he's in the conversation. As a spell, you have ways of doing additional chip damage. You know, any time, in each phase in which any wounds or mortal wounds were allocated in that unit, it's per phase on a two-up takes D through mortal wounds. Just more, more mortals, more mortals, more mortals, right? I could get nuts, potentially. Yeah. And again, it depends like, are you using plague drones where you've got some shooting damage? You know what I mean? Yeah. And are you, you know, you hero phase to do some damage through a spell. You shooting phase with some plague drones. You obviously fight the battle shock disease tokens, right? It can add up. We didn't say it was part of the overview, but obviously, I mean, this is such a Johnny book, which I love that they have, yeah, all these combos and it's more than meets the eye, doing so much more with less. Yeah, it's awesome. Yep. So he's got play. Morbidex is my least favorite at only 12 wounds. Does still carry the three-up save. You know, his, he heals half the wounds done to him. Every year. Like that. Which is, which is good at the end of it, because it happens at the end of every battle shock phase. So he is like a massive self healer every turn. And he can return nerglings to nerdling swarms. I don't really rate nerglings. Hence that special, that doesn't mean as much to me. The, you know, Morbidex is the most expensive one. He's three 20. It's not a huge difference, but he is the most expensive for the least wounds. He doesn't need to do that. He doesn't do that much less damage than Orgot's. He's five and five instead of seven and five with basically the same profile. And, you know, he's okay. He's, I rate Orgot's like, Orgot's gets a solid nine for me, blow abs and eight. This guy's like a six to me. Still good. I wanna, yeah, I need to see him play dude. To me, it comes back to like we talked about as a distraction piece. It's an absolute nuisance. Cause it's, it's a matter of like these guys, all three of them are incredibly tanky and Orgot's and Morbidex are the most. So may in some situations, you may not need the extra durability that you're getting on Morbidex, but you may need it when he's playing that role. So like to me, it's a matter of how much difference is the extra durability on Morbidex going to matter in terms of him performing his role. Yeah. Does the extra healing end up being a hat on a hat because he's already so tough. Right. That's the question. Suspect, I suspect he's going to be more valuable than people are seeing is my view on him. He's definitely got potential as a really strong, just pinning piece that just holds somebody's like, we fight for the rest of the game now. Right. Pinning, threatening MSU units on backfield objectives, going up to wizards. Yeah, absolutely. Kind of similar to some of the things we talked about with Bastion. Right. Yeah. All right, keep moving. Lord of Affliction, this guy's hot as, I mean, he is so hot right now. Eight inch move, eight wounds, now with a three up save. His damage is like, okay, it's okay. But he is the great mortal hero of the book. He takes command traits and artifacts and holds them really, really well. He can do, he can do mortal wounds in the hero phase, which is cool. He has, when he charges, he can do mortal wounds. If he has the Dolores toxin, he can do them quite effectively on a two up. And most importantly, he can take two units of Puscoil Blight Lords or Plague Drones off-board with him into ambush. All right. When you would, so like, it's just so good. At the end of your movement phase, you can do it. At the end of movement phase, you can set up this unit on the battlefield more than nine small units. If you do so, set up all the units that joined with him on the battlefield, all the other than 12, this unit more than nine small units. He doesn't have the first turn restriction. He just, he's the normal rule. So you don't have to come downturn one. You can come downturn two or three. He can, he's part of your null deploy strategy. He's tough as a coffin nail. Yep. Fantastic. Yep. And that worked a lot, but yeah. And I mean, yeah, we could talk a lot about this guy, but he's going to be everywhere in a tunnel list. Yeah, the general of choice. Yeah, he takes, he's such a good, like he absorbs the commentary well. He absorbs artifacts well. He's mobile. He plays well into the strategy of using drowning men or drowned men so he can be a good leader. When you're, if you're doing a pregame move or to take him off board to protect him against Alpha shooting, he's versatile. He's effective. He's everything you want. And great. He's just great. They're great. I'm certainly the best of us with a go as a general and, you know, on average, maybe the go is going to be more durable in terms of the denying side of the war Lord, the Lord, you know, Lord of afflictions. On average, maybe you're, he's a little more putting at greater risk in your average game than you are your go, let's say, but yeah, in terms of slay the war Lord calculation, but yeah, it's still, he's so durable that, you know, you probably are going to be fine in a lot of cases. Agreed. He's fantastic. Love this dude. Love this dude. Okay. Gut rut spume. The other half of your null deploy strategy. So now four inch move, eight wounds on a four up save is safe to get one worse. You know, he still has his ability to add one days. He's, again, he's like, okay, damage, it's fine. These guys are all okay damage, right? I'm not even gonna call it out because it's just all okay. You know, he can get bonuses to hit heroes, fine, whatever. You're taking him because he has master the slime fleet where he can take three mortal maggot kin of Nurgle units off to board. Units have been reinforced to count as two units. At the end of your movement phase, you can set up this unit. Again, he doesn't have the first turn restriction. Now they do have to be within six inches of the edge of the battlefield. So it's, he's slightly more limited in that regard, but holy crap, this dude can take off any mortal maggot kin units. Yep. Right? I missed that the first time reading it. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't realize. Yeah, it was any of the mortals. Yeah. So not just Blight Kings, like he used to be able to do, but like he can take other heroes off. He can say null deploy Orgots off the board and come in on the side with Orgots. He can take your Rotkovin off because they're mortal. Right? No. Anything, anything mortal. Somebody is on a 130 instead of 160. Yes. They have to be on a one. He can't take the 160 guys off like Glockin. He can't because Glockin's on the 160. Glockin is the 130 dude. Oh, is he really? I thought he's on 160. Okay. Yeah, he can take Glockin off because he's mortal. Yep. I was wrong on Glockin's base size. Well, there you go. So I mean, that's the reason you take this dude, right? It's that it's between him and the Lord of Reflections. You can easily one drop, null deploy, zero things on the board. You can even have some Nurglings in there to mess around with people. All off board. I deploy zero units go. Like even if you lose the roll off and like, if you get to go, you make them go first and you're on the board and then you just swarm them. And if it's like a Lumineth alpha shooting strategy, it's like, go ahead, what you're gonna shoot? For me, I'm actually like, if I were doing Nurgle tournament, I'm starting my list with this guy and Orgots or Morbidix. Yeah. Or my like quarter of my army, that's gonna have an amazing roll. Every game that's gonna do work for me, just that alone. And then yeah, go from there. Yep. The Lord of Blights is our next up. He's a, you know, he does have the three up base with seven wounds. So he is relatively tough, what his thing is. He can use the thrice ripened death heads thing for Blight Kings, right? So hence he can give like, you know, a shooting attack to Blight Kings, which is like, okay, it's fine. And again, it's the same thing where it's equal to the number of models in the unit. He's interesting because he is a tough foot hero being a three up base save dude. Who also has a shooting attack so he can work well with the blow up spell. He can be passing around different shooting attacks either he himself or the other people and synergizes well with the shooting attacks. So you have damaged chances in the shooting phase. Again, more chances to pass disease around onto different units. You're not necessarily attacking, right? He gives like, he gives one model that unit but it's still shooting. It's just shooting attacks getting spread around. And he can fight with Blight Kings, right? He has the chain activation blight thing with Blight Kings. This is my wife coming down and tell me let's go. Okay. Yeah, like we're running over time. I knew this was coming. All right, Kathy, I've been staring at that door. Are you still on? Yeah, we're still on. Yeah, this is still on. We have 10 minutes left. We've been joined, get the dogs in here for everybody who stayed. Yes, we're moving. We're moving, I promise. All right, so I don't see this guy making the cut a lot of times. I agree. Pause up, pause up. There's still these little wound heroes, the dog goes in here. They're the only reason that people come. There you go. This is Aspen. She's very squirrely. Squirrely, squirrely. Give us 10 minutes. I'm not gonna give you 10 minutes, hurry up. Okay. All right, I agree, he doesn't make the cut. Let's talk about Festus. Okay, come on. Does Festus make the cut for you in this? Yes. Kathy gives the vote for him. I think he could, yes. I find Festus one of the most intriguing of the heroes in that range. Let me look at him again. Do I have him here? Where is he on your plagues? Why don't I see him? He's in there. All right, well, so Festus, I mean. Let's try to jump through him. Yeah, yeah. Festus. Like Festus thinks because he can heal and because he's another mortal wound source, right? And because he has a powerful spell. Now it's on a cast value of seven that he's hard rolling against, but giving somebody neg one to save turns out pretty good. And he's 150 points. 50, okay. He was the one that, I think he was the main one that stood out to me in that price range, in terms of like when you're getting to the tail end of your list, maybe you throw a men that last whatever number of points. I agree. He could be part of the, he could be a last choice. He could make the cut. I think the flip side of that is the harbinger who doesn't make the cut anymore because he lost obviously his old ability was pointless. He and like good, he's the other really bad looking model in the unit or in the army because he's still old. He can give you extra command points in one round, which is like, okay. And he can make it so during, he basically has his own roar, right? He has a second roar. It's not that he's completely pointless. I just think the harbinger doesn't make the cut. I think Festus could, Festus can no deploy off by the way with gut run. So he can pop on the side. Now the trick is he's going to be too late to spell cast but it can keep him safe. Sure. So it would depend like I could see if you were able to, one drop, giving first turn away, playing to the double, you bring Festus on. Like into the double turn, he can do some powerful options. Will we do some sample lists? Not today, because my wife is already very angry at me for being 23 minutes over. We will in the future though. We're going to do sample lists in the future. We got to play more games and get more feeling and before we start doing some sample lists. Festus, I think you're right. He's like the, he's like the probably last one. All right, Rob Rigger Sorcerer. We talked about these guys already earlier, but just at the point with these guys is their spell is like, whatever, who cares? Their spell is not good. But when they cast endless spells, they become maggotkin of Nurgle models. Meaning if you put the other end of the portal next to their units, they don't have the three inch prohibition like your units do. So even in the movement phase, because you cast it off in the hero phase and then that thing can sit an inch away from multiple units. And most endless spells don't have to be an inch away from models. They set up and then all of a sudden they're passing out disease tokens. The other end of a mirror. I'll give away Tom's secret tech, which is shards of Valagar. It's a Valagar, yeah. With the two ends of it, right? Cause you can just set them around. Not only does it slow movement and play into your strategy by slowing the enemy down to your level, but it also then puts two little beacons of disease pulse out there. And about shackles through the portal to get the extra range on shackles. Shackles is another one. That's a lot of range through the portal. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, shackles is another one where it's like three little pulses of disease tokens then. So there are, I think this guy has play. I'm not sure Rock Coven does, but I think this dude is interesting. The Lord of Plagues is a hard pass for me, old drippy. It's a nonbow because I don't see 10 blikings being a thing. Right. Big unit of 10. That's 500 points. I don't really see that, you know, one inch reach, blah, blah, blah, whatever. 40 millimeter bases. Yeah, it's a nonbow with a seven-fold slaughter. No good idea, but just it doesn't actually work in practice, I don't think. And yeah, yeah. So now I agree. I don't see this guy making the cut. Yep. Fecula and the worm spat. Fecula's got some play. I don't want to dive too deep into her, but she's also interesting. She can also taint endless spells, right? Which is pretty good. And the worm spat can protect her. Like they give her a four-up feel, like a four-up bodyguard, instead of relying on her five-up ward, which is interesting. 255. Fecula and the worm spat are 255, yes. I mean, that's a, I think that's a pretty good point value getting. I think so, yeah. Like she's a cool wizard. She's a single cast wizard. She can taint spells. It's really a question of whether or not it's worth it to have her bodyguards with her. Sure. You know, like she has a two-cast wizard once again, so she's okay. I could see her making the cut periodically, but yeah, tough choice. All right, Blight Kings and the Blight Lords. We're not gonna have time to talk about the tree controversy. I'm sorry, Tyler. We're gonna have to cut the tree controversy. No worries, yeah. Future Blight Kings are now 250 for four wounds on a four-up save. They're fantastic. They're just fantastic. Because of relentless attackers, at the end of the combat phase, pick one enemy unit with a wound's characteristic of three or less that's within three inches of this unit. Roll one dice for each model in this unit that is within three inches of the enemy unit for each roll that exceeds that enemy unit's wound characteristic, that enemy unit suffers one more wound. Fantastic. Amazing. Not only do they make a ton of attacks, now all at rend one, like this unit, right, makes 25 attacks. So right away, they're kicking off the, pushing you to seven disease tokens. Like this unit, if it bites you, it just immediately pushes you to seven disease tokens. And then at the end of it, God forbid the wither staff be around or it be on the turn where you got plus one of your disease rolls, because against two wound or three wound guys, or sorry, one wound or two wound guys, they then are gonna do an extra, basically seven to 10 mortal wounds between the end of the combat phase and the start of the battle shock phase. And that's what I saw happening. When I like, these guys got into a one, these guys fought Sigvold and just died. When I, like I charged Sigvold in on a short charge and just slaughtered five of these dudes. Okay, but because I ignored their aftersave and they just couldn't hurt me. But they got into a big unit of iron golems and just, just pummeled it. Just right, just because they were just doing eight to 10 mortal wounds to the thing on top of their normal attacks. Right. Just blew it away. So against the right targets, these guys are brutal, right? Yeah, they're not, they're not exactly general purpose, but yeah, they definitely have a role that they can fill in a list. Yes. Oh, yeah. No, I, yeah, we, I think they're, it's weird. It seems weird, but they are probably appropriately costed, 50 or everything. Yeah, 250 feels about right. For four up, five up after, they're so tough. They actually benefit from a lot of the healing. Yeah. Like they're very likely to get the D3 healing and so on. I think, I think we'll see quite a few of them. Yeah. And, and certainly they'll find their way into a lot of lists. For the same reason I do like Puscoil, Blight Lords basically have Blight King on top of a big bug. They have the mortal wound impact hits. So they're doing mortal wounds on the way in. We've talked about the pregame move in Drowned Men. We've talked about the null deployment with the Lord of Afflictions. They go battle line in Drowned Men. They have a ton of attacks, right? Like two of these guys, they're elite. They can issue self-commands. They do 22 attacks between the part of them. And then, so not only do they do impact hits on the way in on the charge, but they also have the Relentless Attackers ability like Blight Kings. Now, they don't get as many because there's only two or four of these guys. Usually you're never gonna take six. They don't have like the, you know, against one and two wound dunes, Blight Kings are really good for three to five mortal wounds. These guys, it's more like two to three extra. So it's two to three on the way in, two to three, or let's call it two to four on the way in, two to three on the way out, you know? But it's strong. I really stand plus with Blight Lords, especially at 220. They're great, again. Agreed, goodbye. High movement, versatility and deployment, effective with the core roll, obvious hammer, tough to kill. Right, very tough to kill, surprisingly, in that first game I played, yeah. Yeah, because I get that Bandis died, which allowed them to get into 10 Vendictors. 10 Vendictors, pretty tough, but it was a series of these sort of these combos, these things going off. So the presence of I cannot use a command ability. Yeah. So I can't plus one save Vendictors, okay? So minus one rend is more valuable, but putting out a bucket of tax is three of them. They do impact hits. They got up the disease points. He, I don't know what he rolled, but he was doing mortals from the disease points, doing mortals from the impact hits. I was left with like one Vendictor. Yeah, it's just mortals on top of mortals on top of mortals with these guys. Charge, disease, realest attackers, yeah. And then they attack on top of that, right? All right, finally the tree. Basically what the tree does now is it gives you contagion points, but not many. It will be FAQ to only be one per tree, not multiplicative, because obviously if you could multiply them, it will be warping. That's the ultimate problem. It will make it so the right play is to just set trees all along the back of your board, every seven inches, like tree, seven inches, tree, seven inches, tree. And people say, yes, you can shut off the contagion points if you move near them. Obviously nothing's gonna move near them because they're backboarded against the back edge of your board far away from objectives and people don't have that many units that they can just sit back there and avoid to camp all your stupid trees. And if you get three or four of them, suddenly you're getting nine to 16 contagion points a turn, that's way too many. It turns it into way too much of a summoning army. It warps the whole way the army plays. It shouldn't be done. I understand why people want it because it feels like it would turn the summoning mechanic into something real. It's bad for the army. It's warping for the army. You shouldn't be summoning that much. I'm sorry, that's just the way it is. And it will certainly be FAQ just like the harvest was to not be multiplicative. They will clarify. They didn't mean it to be multiplicative. You can tell from the way they wrote. They just didn't think about it. So it doesn't matter what I think. This is the most obvious FAQ in history. There we go. Yes, they're not very good. Congratulations, your free terrain thing is a minor bonus. Which is what terrain should be. Yeah, that's what we should want. Not these luminous pieces. I hate terrain should be hyper effective. All right, that's it folks. We did it. Nurgle book done. Thank you everybody. Don't forget to hit like. I gotta go get not killed by my wife who I love very much and who is a very beautiful, wonderful woman. Thank you all so much for coming. Sorry for the early show and the change. I hope everybody enjoyed this. If you've got questions or something we didn't cover, drop it down below, hit like, subscribe, do all the things. Really appreciated everybody. Sorry for the fast time. We'll see you next Wednesday.