 As-salaamu alaikum and welcome to tonight's live show on Imam Hussein TV. Two inspirational women, the Blessed Virgin Mary and Fatima Zahra peace be upon both of them. You'll find globally three billion people adore both women. Both representing two big faiths Christianity and Islam. In this given world at the moment that we live in, how can we bring together the parallels? How can we show the biographies of both personalities? What sort of biographies are they really expressing in today's life? What can we actually express to unite and harmonize the world with interfaith dialogue? Is there enough or is there not enough? Let's have a look first of all at the biography and the life of the Blessed Virgin Mary With me tonight we have Dr. Seyed Amarnak 20. As-salaamu alaikum. Wa alaikum as-salaam wa rahmatullah. So great pleasure to have you on once again. My pleasure. Thank you. Thank you very much. So tonight we're going to be looking at a number of different angles as it were of these two great ladies as it were. We're going to be looking at the biographies, the parallels, inspiration. So first of all, how can the Blessed Virgin and Seyed An-Nisaila al-Alamin Fatima Zahra, As-salaamu alaikum, unite the world today on peace and love? And this is very, very key at this time. First and foremost, congratulations to the whole of the Muslim Ummah on the week of the blessed birth of Fatima Al-Zahra, alayhi salam. And I think you mentioned a wonderful point within your question. That can these two be a source of uniting some really extremist factions in both religions? Yes. Islam and Christianity, both at present and in the past, have had extreme factions who have despised one another, who have fought one another, who have hated one another and who have been willing to kill one another, thinking that this is what the main protagonists of the religion actually taught, whereas the reality is that sometimes our lack of understanding of the greats and those who allow the two religions to connect means that we are far away from their teachings. If you ask many Christians in the world today, what do you know about Fatima? They might only mention to you a place where it is seen as a place of pilgrimage in Portugal. If you ask many Muslims in the world today, what do you know about Maryam? You know that there is a chapter, for example, named Maryam. What do you truly know about the angels' relationship with Maryam? About the food that came to Maryam, about the intercessory aspect of Maryam, about the rosary bead of Maryam. All of these different aspects of Maryam, sadly, there are many Muslims who have not reflected upon. Therefore, Maryam and Fatima, if the Muslim world and the Christian world was to reflect upon them and even put Jesus and the Holy Prophet, peace be upon him and his family, put them aside. You put the Prophet Jesus, alaihi salam, and the Prophet Muhammad, alaihi salam, put them aside and just look at Mary and Fatima. You'll find there are many valuable spiritual lessons which the two faiths so badly need because at the moment you're seeing an evangelical side to Christianity that is harboring some sort of hate towards the other. And in Islam, certainly, since 9-11, you've seen a strand of Islam far away from the teachings of Fatima and a strand of Christianity in response far away from the teachings of Mary. So therefore, our aim has to be to sit back and reflect on these two ladies who themselves never led wars, never ordered killings, and on the contrary were victims in some cases of oppression in their time, but maintained dignity throughout. And I think that type of dignity and the study of the biography of the two is fundamental in the West especially now because when you're looking in Europe and you're looking at other parts of the world, there's a far right element in Christianity and a far right element in Islam and both receive most of the headlines. No one's really going to look at tolerant Islam or tolerant Christianity. No one's really going to look at the Christians who work their hardest to bring medical aid to Muslim refugees or Muslims who have helped Christian children on seashores to ensure that they're safe away from the dangers of ISIS and so on. So both religions at the moment require a return to their figures who are moral exemplars. And I think this return is needed right now. Yes, yes. And hopefully we'll have a lot of Christians as well watching this. Dr. Amanak Shwani, so now if you can possibly speak about, I mean, what I'm curious about to find out is, have any academics looked at the similarities of their biographies which our viewers can access? It's a great question. And I'm a firm believer that there's a great amount of literature on Islam by Muslims and non-Muslims which can be beneficial for the Muslim world. Muslim world has access to primary sources, no doubt. Every religion would want to read its primary literature and from the main scholars of that religion. But I found there's a couple of writers out there who have written extensively on either Maryam and Fatima together or looking at Fatima and her role in the Shi'i world but how similar it is to Maryam's role in the Christian world. Yes, yes. And we know very well that Mary is revered in Christianity but there are different levels of reverence. Sure. The verses that one may argue shows a bit more reverence than protestant thought. Fatima is revered by all Muslims, whether one may argue the Shi'a have a much greater focus than one may even argue a respect in relation to Fatima and Zahra than any other school in the religion of Islam and anyone out there who wants to look at this can find that there are certain people that if Fatima is angry with them, the Shi'a are angered by whoever angers Fatima whereas there are others who don't have a problem with whoever angers Fatima. Now what happens therefore is that you've got in the academic world, I'll give you an example. There is a book called and I love all the viewers if they can order it and by the way I'm not getting any commission by them ordering it so I'm not just recommending it because I have a contract with the author or anything. There's an author called Thirlkill, T-H-U-R-L-K-I-L, Thirlkill wrote a book called Chosen Among Women and looks at Fatima and Maryam in Roman Catholic and in Shi'a thought. Because Catholicism and Shi'aism is a very interesting discussion, there seems to be an overlap on a lot of the concepts in Catholicism and a lot of the concepts in Shi'a thought. Thirlkill does a brilliant job of looking at Mary and Fatima al-Zahra and I recommend all the viewers to have a look at this because in examining the biography of Mary and examining the biography of Fatima you find that there is an unbelievable overlap. I think that there are Christians out there if they saw the overlap in relation to the angelic and the mystical and the spiritual and the salvation and the intercession of Maryam and of Fatima they will be in disbelief that there is so much similarity and I think Thirlkill does a great job and the book is available on Amazon Chosen Among Women. Another author I have great respect for in the way she examines Fatima al-Zahra's biography and sometimes relates it to Eve, sometimes to Mary and that is Karen Ruffle. Those of you out there interested in pursuing further studies on Fatima al-Zahra and her biography Karen Ruffle has written many brilliant articles. There was an article of Karen Ruffle I remember May Fatima gather our tears which was a really wonderful article about Fatima al-Zahra's role in affecting the Muslim world in the Middle East but also in the South Asia. How Fatima al-Zahra plays a major role in the salvation of Shia within literature. So Karen Ruffle, Mary Thirlkill, they've written extensively also Father Christopher Clohesi has written a book Fatima daughter of Muhammad and this week in London at Haidari on Friday and Stan Momosk on Saturday the father will be speaking extensively about why he as a priest wrote a book on Fatima al-Zahra and at Cambridge University, University of Cambridge on March the 4th at the Wolf Institute there's a brilliant program being organized by the Hikmah Foundation and this program Father Clohesi, Professor Sajjad Rizvi, Sheikh Mohammed Al-Halli, Sister Safia Tharo and Ruhi Hasan all of them will be presenting on different aspects of Fatima's life but you would say uniquely a father speaking about Fatima. His love is Mary, his salvation is Christ but you find that in his book Fatima daughter of Muhammad he wonderfully examines the different aspects of Fatima and her relationship with Maryam. Okay. So I personally think that if you go to the academic world you can find some outstanding articles from Thirlkill, from Karen Ruffle, from Christopher Clohesi that have sought to in one way or the other find an overlap or harmonize so that there is interfaith dialogue on this area. Okay, thank you. Just for the benefit of our viewers I do urge also non-Muslims and Christians particularly for this show to call in the telephone numbers 0203-515-0109. Dr. Syed Amman Khashrani, what is exactly the true meaning of dialogue and that's also to elaborate further. What I find and perhaps in your observance as well or in experience many of these interfaith dialogue events they seem to be you know quite nice, pleasant, there's good conversation and so on and so forth but perhaps just not meaningful it's just killing time. I think in this day and age coming together and talking is meaningful. Yeah. It's vital not just meaningful. For me and you we can go out on the streets of London today and not be affected at all with Islamophobic comments but our sisters who for example are wearing their headscarf could easily be the victims of Islamophobic comments unless we're sitting on a table and engaging in dialogue and talking with one another. Now I agree with you that sometimes interfaith dialogue is more about the tea and biscuits than it is about true development and growth progression. Yes. I do believe there are many who do great work out there which is underrated which is undervalued and I do believe that every mosque in the UK has to have an office which focuses on interfaith dialogue with our Christian brethren with our Jewish brethren with our Hindu brethren with our Sikh brethren with our Buddhist brethren and even with those who do not have faith but want to build a society where we can live in harmony the true meaning of dialogue if you look at the etymology of the word dialogue is to see through the lens of the other seeing through the other. Wow. Many of us are not willing to study Mary of Christianity all we're interested in is Mary of the Quran. Yes. So concepts in the biography of Mary therefore such as let's say annunciation or intercession or the rosary or certain festivals such as the Feast of Santa Maria and for example you know other areas of salvation many of us have not seen what Christians believe on these areas and we end up therefore being bigoted and prejudiced thinking that we know everything about Mary absolutely because we're not really engaging in dialogue. Dialogue is a involved scriptural reasoning yes bring the scriptures together you can't just always say well what does it say in the Quran have you considered thinking well what's it saying in the Bible yeah what's the Bible's opinion on this area so that when I'm living with my Christian brethren I understand what they believe so I think that in this day and age I don't care if interfaith dialogue just involves pleasantries we need dialogue at a time where there is prejudice stereotype and lack of integration and a lot of discrimination yes yes and it's not just Islamophobia there are many other phobias that unless we engage in dialogue on the likes of Mary and the likes of Fatima we're gonna end up hurting each other of course no very well said thank you for that. Now turning to just for the moment the Holy Quran what do you think God intended when he names a whole chapter of the Holy Quran and actually Christians should be aware of this that there is a chapter in the Holy Quran named after Mary known as Mariam in Arabic. Well I think the first thing is that you're really shattering the patriarchal Arab arrogant men that hey there's a chapter named after Mariam and there's even prophets of God in the Quran who did not get chapters named after them there's no chapter called Moses yes there's no chapter called Jesus his mom got a chapter yeah yeah and I think you're shattering the stereotype and the and and the bigotry shown towards women in in that Arabian period by saying there's a whole chapter to be named after Mariam. I think secondly it's allowed for dialogue in that nascent Muslim community that there was interaction egg with the Roman Empire there's a whole surah in the Quran called the Romans. Many people recite the surah in the Holy month of Ramadan that's right so a wonderful aim to try and bring dialogue that when there's a surah called the Romans room the aim of that surah is to allow the people to see that the Romans did defeat the Persians that there is a faith in God that was victorious having been defeated yes but also that there is room to engage Kistra of Persia with dialogue. Number three Abyssinia was led by a Christian priest who virtually saved the religion of Islam. That's right. The verses that Ja'far al-Tayyar brother of Amir al-Mu'min Ali ibn al-Mitalib al-Islam the verses that Ja'far al-Tayyar quotes from surah Mariam are verses which bring a wonderful sense of light to the heart of that Christian priest in Abyssinia but also the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon his family tells his companions in this period you know sanctions at any time are difficult for any country true it's difficult for you as a group of people to have sanctions on you so when you've got these sanctions on you at the time who helps the early nasim Muslim community it's a Christian priest what's quoted Mariam the chapter on her on the birth of Christ yes yes and and so therefore surah Mariam is this pivotal surah it's not the only surah in the Quran where Mary and her birth and the you know immaculate conception and so on has mentioned however I think it's a pivotal moment for the growth of Islam and for the relations between Muslims and Christians at the time yeah okay let's let's um really start to mold as it were and and you know set aside as it were the first half of this show towards her but um in reality the Holy Quran there's also another chapter which is the third chapter Ali Imran and that's also related to her if I'm not mistaken I mean can you yeah as Mary's father yeah Imran you know you're talking Moses alaihi salam and Imran there's that children of Israel lineage related to Imran yes um Allah has chosen fundamental point over here okay this is vital why it seems God doesn't want elections to take place for his leaders on earth he picks families which inherit leadership yes I always find it interesting that when Prophet Muhammad died peace be upon his family everyone forgot his family yeah forget for God they actually started fighting them forget fighting them they actually ended up be heading and killing them but but what's interesting is that in in the Quran God is a monarchist yes it chooses families and these families inherit the light of guidance and prophethood and so yes Surat al Imran whether you're referring to you know Moses Mary Christ there's this beginning of a discussion of the pivotal role of Maryam with the children of Israel with Zacharia with the temples sure all beginning from the vow that was made that I'm dedicating what's in my womb wow and that vow is an interesting vow you know her father Imran and her mother which in some traditions is known as Hannah or Anne right uh they make a vow about what they want their child to be or to do while the child's in the womb I see you ask many people uh what do you want your kids to be they'll be like well ask them there's only a few who while she's pregnant with her son or with her daughter has already asked God allow them to be the following yes and there are many prophets who believe that upbringing of your children begins even before the womb where you pray to Allah give me a child who's of the Salihin yes yes yes Abraham has his prayer Mary's mom has a prayer that she's devoting her child to the Lord of course she gets surprised when it's a girl because she's thinking well is the girl the one who's going to cure the blind and the leper and the sick and raise the dead and of course God is the one with the greatest of plans that this daughter of yours going to have a son who will do that but this daughter is also going to be devoted wow yeah thank you right um let's really go into the detail yeah life of the Blessed Virgin Mary also known as Maryam in Arabic um first of all I want to stop start off we're just asking there is literature but it's very scarce as it were what what yeah so you're using the Quran okay yeah okay okay and the and not only the Quran but the only people who have knowledge of the lives of Jesus and Mary in exactly the way they were let me make this clear to the viewers right nobody is able to tell you about the lives of Jesus and Mary in Islam except Muhammad and I'll Muhammad Salawat Allah was the prophet Muhammad and his family there are huge books on hadith in Islam that have nothing on Jesus's biography whereas online you can order a book called Jesus through she generations or Jesus and she generations by leg and hauson it's available online Nabi Jesus whole biography and I will come to the proof of why Ahlul Bayt have that knowledge about all of these but the fundamental source of our knowledge of the Quran okay okay so um Dr. Aman Akshani we I just want to ask I've always been under the assumption as it were that um prophets were reserved are reserved as it were or there's a remit only for prophets to actually converse or speak to angels yet yet we have a verse in the book we have in chapter 19 three particular verses as it were to talk about the Blessed Virgin Mary speaking so she's a muhadatha and I'm just going to quickly paraphrase sure we've got a lot to get through sure um so she veiled herself as it were to screen herself then we the verses then we sent to her our spirit and and they appeared to her a well-made man and then the following verses she sought refuge as it were from Allah and guarded herself against evil okay yes because who's this man yeah and then the third and final verses he said I am only a messenger of your Lord that I will give you a pure boy sure so the point is this what sort of status or rank did she achieve that she could actually converse and speak to the angel a rank which some scholars felt led to her being known as a prophet right however the majority of the scholars do not believe in her as a prophet but they say that there are instances of great woman in Islamic history yes who God allowed them to speak to the angels and the angels to speak to them in the Quran you could brilliantly paraphrase surah 19 verse 17 to 19 yes yes jibrail comes to visit mariam an angel comes to visit mariam there's a huge honor of course she's no doubt she's baffled at the time because she's thinking what's going on yes but what is going on is that he takes the form of a you know of a human being and he has come to bring glad tidings he comes as a protector he comes to communicate with her and anyone who therefore thinks that only angels can only communicate with prophets and the only prophets speak to angels no the verse in the Quran that shatters that concept is this verse yes and that mariam had communication with the angels angels yeah not just communication can i add a second point yes mariam used to receive food from the yes yeah i was going to come to that point the angel doesn't just communicate the angel used to bring food that zikariya used to see in the mehrab of mariam yes summer fruits in the winter time winter fruits in the summer yes so you know if i can just quickly go to that particular verse again i've seen ali imran which is a third chapter and the verse that dr marnaq shawani alluded to is 37 and uh again i'll just quickly go into the interpretation as it were or the translation so her lord accepted her with a good acceptance and made her grow up a good growing and gave her into the charge of zikariya in english whenever zikariya entered the sanctuary to see her he found her with food he said oh mariam or mary whence comes this to you she said it is from Allah it is from God surely Allah gives to whom he pleases without measure so the point here is again very similar on the lines of previously you know prophets prayed they were conversing and they conversed as it were with angels and so and so now all of a sudden there's this great noble lady a virgin who's also been blessed with food as it were sent from yes yes yes as i said this is a huge moment that anyone who says islam is a religion where only men receive this guidance from the lord this shat is it you've got an angel who god because of the iman of this lady yeah and because of her devotion to god god allows her to be in the presence of jibrael and it's interesting that where they used the angel used to place the food is where zikariya went and prayed to have a child a son because zikariya thought hold on that place has food from jannah from the heavens so if i'm gonna pray there the energy right as a barakah okay so therefore that was a lesson for all of us dua can be prayed supplication you can supplicate anywhere but to supplicate where there has been an energy yes there's a huge difference it's a sort of a mystical side as it were just moving on now we have as it were the rosary beads yes obviously not this one here but you know replica what sort of traditions do we find about the rosary bead as it were and you know the infallibility as it were around it what what can you mention about that well the rosary bead is fundamental when you're looking at the biography of mary and in christianity you'll have what are known as the decades decades yes decade as we all know refers to ten and so you've got the hail mary's and before these decades and towards the end of these decades you'll have one lord's prayer right just for the benefit of muslim viewers naturally christian viewers would notice but what is a hail mary as it were well you know there's a call out towards mary a recognition of the importance of mary right and recognizing also the that there is salvation okay from god because of the fact that this is the lady who had the presence had given us christ you know so there is this unbelievable connection between us the lord and mary okay and so as i said these uh decades of course there have been different evolutions in the church from 10 to 15 right how many are called out when they're called out okay however the rosary bead plays this huge spiritual role okay yes okay okay now you've mentioned you know that the actual rosary bead why is it so crucial when we look at the life of mary the word virgin what what what what so significant as it were the status of well i think the most pivotal moment in mariam's life and described amazingly in the quran you know mary is mentioned in the quran more than in the bible and you know the the conception and and the virgin birth is discussed vividly her emotions her feelings and it's also a moment where there's a first lesson to be learned and that is never despair of god's mercy if he wants to he breaks all the laws of cause and effect okay we are subject to those laws cause and effect the lord if he wants to be it is kon feyakon you may Allah he gives you the ability to say kon feyakon because there are certain muslims who say what's the highest level i can reach spiritually and i think many don't realize that you can actually reach a level of kon feyakon in its limited form but that virgin birth of and that virgin status of mary is fundamental in christianity of course yes yes and led certain christian theologies into believing that mary is the that christ is the son of god because he had no father others tried to bring joseph into it and so yeah so the virgin birth is fundamental within christianity okay so now we just have just under 10 minutes so we're going to sort of quickly go into the following aspects as well what can you mention about infallibility as it were um of of her well because she is a divine figure it's very interesting because when you look at the gospel of luke you look at the annunciation yeah there is this purity to marry okay in christian thought i i would add a caveat in saying that there is also the sense that mary herself seeks salvation she seeks to be um purified from you know being a sinner okay um and so some might say that that is a sign that she is not infallible but i think if you're looking even within shia literature sometimes the imams of ahl al-bayt when they're talking to the lord they say forgive us forgive us forgive us and that doesn't mean that they've sinned but these are ways in which their followers are able to talk to their lord being taught by the imams of ahl al-bayt but definitely that purity that you know living a chaste life is are the key terms within infallibility alongside the potential to sin but the discipline not to yes and that can be seen within certain areas of christian literature okay okay you that nicely leads on to the next point because you mentioned a keyword they're chaste as it were so now coming on to the next point um she's shown as being siddhika as it were and what what is this term as it were what what is it in reference to in specific siddhika you know mariam has a number of titles which we'll find that fatama and her share yeah and siddhika is one of them you know their tongues are truthful tongues okay they devote themselves to their lord at an extremely young age they devote themselves to the way of god to the obedience of god as a lesson for all of us that religiosity isn't about how many majalis you've attended how many ziyaras you've gone on how many hajj you've been to but really it's about the truthfulness of your tongue yes yes um the truthfulness of your tongue is one aspect and another is whether your tongue is the tongue that all it seeks to do is the fame and backbite there are people out there today who are seen as people of religion but i think the nickname bbc is apt for them yeah we could call them Reuters even from the amount of gossip they have about the lives of everybody in the community i think because they dress like maulanas people will always worship the dress and not worship what's behind it as behlul wonderfully put it when he wanted to go into a dinner organized by haruna rashid at the castle and he came to the door and they looked at him and they're like where do you think you're going he goes i've come for this dinner for the scholars they're like you're not a scholar go away so he went and bought an abaya and he bought a rosary bead right and he came back and said oh maulana please welcome he said take the rosary take the abaya that's what you're more interested in mariam is sadiqa right she is taher okay she's truthful and pure yes no uttering of lives no defaming of others no destroying others lives uh-huh and i think that is the ultimate sign of taqwa okay um we've just got just under five minutes so probably the last points here um her being an intercessor as it were and she fired you know is she is she basically can we have shafi shafi as it were or yes intercession in christian thought specifically the catholic yeah in roman catholic dogma it's there you've got the feast of santa maria there is a belief um that mary acts as an intercessor she's the mother of the person who brings salvation okay um you can ask god directly but why not mention mary right okay okay viewers do call in we're gonna be going for a short break uh in just a moment or two the telephone number is 0203 515 119 hopefully inshallah you are enjoying this show um see you again in the next moment or two salam aleikum salam aleikum and welcome back to tonight's live show two inspirational women where we're looking at the lives of the virgin mary and also fatima salam alehi salam peace be upon both of them say now salam aleikum and welcome a lot to get through um just very quickly right at the end of the sort of life as it were the aspects that we can possibly get um and also what i'm curious to find out is how old was she you know the virgin mary when she gave birth to the divine birth as it were nobody knows exactly how old um mariam alehi salam was when she gave birth to christ right what's clear is that she's in her early teens okay okay um if you ask any catholic priest out there today i think they're not going to tell you that she's older than her early teens some might even go low and say 12 13 14 that's very interesting that god decides that his uh his son will be born to a 13 year old okay and for years the prophet Mohammed peace be upon his family was always attacked with the title pedophile because he he married somebody supposedly age 9 10 11 whatever mary gives birth to christ at that young age um so there is there is question marks about the exact age no one can ever tell you but they certainly believe it's in the early teens okay okay i believe we might have a caller on the line salam aleikum no no the caller has hung up um nine just very lastly as it were salvation salvation through her as it were and also i'm being quite quick here now that's you know um how is god's religion saved as it were how is salvation sought through her and that sort of divine aspect what can we say about she is seen as the mother of the man who brings salvation to mankind uh-huh mankind are born sinners because of adams sin in christian thought uh there is a redemption there's a repentance all of it combined that brings um uh that brings that salvation to mankind through the crucifixion of christ so you've got another aspect of mary that her son is the one who saves god's path of guidance right through his death and i think when you're looking at the similarities as we begin now with phatama you'll find that's everything we've said about mary we're going to see happened with phatama yes yes so that puts us into the second half of this show now looking at the life of phatama as-salaam as-salaam we've looked at the first half and let's go right into the parallels as it yeah one by one we'll go through the parallels so we've mentioned that the blessed virgin mary she spoke as it were to angels did did phatama as-salaam speak to angels if mary in the quran uh-huh conversed with the angel then why have a doubt that's phatama daughter of muhammad peace be upon his family can converse with the angels right and that's why if mary is known as muhadatha sometimes in our communities uh you may have your daughter or niece or wife or mother called muhadasa or muhadatha muhadatha is that female noation who no muhadatha okay is the female narrator right muhadatha with the phatha muhadatha is that female who converses with the angels muhadatha right in shi'i and sunni literature you have a concept of the muhadatha yes we believe the imams of al al-bayt likewise and even in in sunni literature there is evidence where they say that people like the second caliph and people like umar bin abdel aziz were of the ones who should deserve the title of muhadatha now phatama al-zahra as-salaam of the clearest proofs that we have in shi'i literature is what is known as mushaf phatama now mushaf phatama okay okay people assume when they hear the word mushaf we'll come to that in just one minute apologies so now we have a caller on the line as-salaamu alaykum as-salaamu alaykum no mushaf phatama when we're talking about mushaf yes the mushaf of phatama some people started to make an accusation against the shi'a by saying that this mushaf of phatama is the shi'a qur'an it's not the shi'a qur'an it doesn't have anything of the qur'an okay the mushaf of phatama is jibra'il alaykum as-salaam consoling phatama don't say jibra'il can't talk to phatama because jibra'il communicated with mariam in the qur'an yes jibra'il consoles phatama i remember the same jibra'il a few years earlier had seen the incident of the cloak hadith al-kissa yes yes he is someone who is privy to muhammad and ali and phatama and haslan and hussein this same jibra'il visits phatama consoles phatama who is grieving the death of her father peace be upon him and his family he consoles her by telling her a where is her father in paradise now the world of barzakh be tales of the past prophets of allah what did i say earlier nobody can tell you about the past prophets of allah like muhammad and al muhammad because they had amongst them with them mushaf phatama subhanallah imam al-sadaq alayhi salam says and this is pure imam olaji forget debating qadir in the qur'an out of the qur'an hadiths come to what the imams are saying imam al-sadaq says with us is the mushaf of phatama with us is the armor of the prophets the sword of feqar with us is the knowledge of the past prophets yes therefore when there are people out there discussing imam trying to prove is the imam look what imam al-sadaq saying imam al-sadaq is saying that amongst the pieces of knowledge that we inherit as imams that when you ask us about jesus and moses and adam and noah and you think how do we know about them when we live the thousand two thousand five thousand years after them we had amongst us mushaf phatama we had kitab ali we had the jafar the red the white we had the amaz we had all of that knowledge inherited so mushaf phatama is jibrail communicating about past events future events what will happen to the umma dictated and written by imam ali imam al-sadaq alayhi salam he dictates jibrail phatama is the listener imam ali ibn abiyat alayhi is the writer subhan Allah and that is a great source of knowledge for the imams of the people because how do the imams really have the knowledge either the prophet peace be upon him says i am the city of knowledge and ali is its gate yes or elham inspiration the way Allah inspired the mother of musa put your baby in the basket let him roll down the nile likewise we have mushaf phatama likewise we have kitab ali and so on okay and the concept of kesp and acquiring of knowledge right um amir muazzi has a wonderful book called the divine guide in early shiaism yes yes looking at the esoteric rather than only the exoteric looking at the inner spiritual dimensions that made the ahl al-bayt differ that put the ahl al-bayt different from the arab riffraff that surrounded them yes yes the ahl al-bayt are mystical personalities whose roots are the pre-eternal realm of pledges don't look at the imams of ahl al-bayt as just arab personalities who lived in madina and mecca with the rest of the arab's the imams of ahl al-bayt are the carriers if not they are the divine lights the manifestation of Allah's light and its minimum forms can be seen in muhammad and al muhammad true so what you have did jibra el speak to phatama jibra el is honored to speak to phatama not the other way around yeah phatama is the one who's honored that jibra el on the conjue jibra el is honored to be around as habel kisa yes is honored allowed to be around the holy five when have you ever seen jibra el saying the time honored to be around pagan x or pagan y monafiq x or monafiq y no i want to be around muhammad and phatama and hassa manfussain ashab el kisa ashab el mubahela the ones who are the arc of nooh for mankind with them lies salvation yes yes we'll come to the point about also the offering of condolences but let's just before then say now we have two three questions by what's up i have a question why is mary called virgin mary is it in the name or does it have a different meaning uh and also is there what is the how was the relationship between lady phatama is Allah alayhi as-salam and hasnain alayhi as-salam well the virgin mary's you know the belief in mariam al-adra for example al-adra the virgin mary the one who is giving birth without having been married right Allah subhanu wa ta'ala can create a spirit say kon feyakon in the way he created adam so that is the meaning in terms of phatama as-salam will come to us yeah of course of course age of giving birth okay this is an interesting question i have a question for dr mar regarding hasn't mariam uh peace be upon her chapter 19 verse 28 refers to her as sister of aran is the aran mentioned here prophet haroon alayhi as-salam why is mariam alayhi as-salam refer to as sister thank you that's some say literally sister some say because she is from that particular lineage and tribe so there's a difference of opinion okay and very quickly as-salamu alaykum say ad-naim Muhammad is it true that imam mahdi's mother is a roman princess thank you make there is an opinion that imam al-mahdi ajallah fajr al-shareef his mother nudges is from the line of one of the disciples of christ okay others say no it's just one of the ladies from the african slaves all the time right okay dr say ad-nam i was just going to ask you about the offerings as it were condolences and this is quite key as well isn't it because again if we look at the parallels of you know Mary and Fatima Zadah what exactly happened and the prophets position in paradise what what what exactly can we say about the the ability of her now yeah the biggest the biggest loss this religion ever saw was the loss of the prophet Muhammad peace be upon his family he was the mercy to mankind yes and who'd you console first but the family and who consoles the angels weep when a believer dies how about the amir of believers how about the prince of believers how about the very meaning of believer so when they send their condolences they send their condolences to the very family who they believe all of this exists because of yes all these lines that we read without al-muhammad there is no no connection between the heavens and the earth al-muhammad are not expagents who used to bow down before idols and then became muslim islam occurs because knowing that there are people like al-muhammad who will guide mankind right okay another question aliza are if what is the similarities and differences of hijab in say the mariam and say the phatima is the question interesting question yeah i think yeah i think every single place you go in the world there is a mariam and a hijab and a phatima and a hijab in the sense that every church you go to there's always mud do you have you ever seen marries here in a church no i ask the viewers have you ever ever ever been to a church where you've seen mariam's hair what's always the look like there's there's a veil veil and i think that gives us an indication that the veil plays another beautiful parallel which is the veil of phatima and the veil of mariam okay um and after imam comes uh what will hijab be after imam comes from men and women there's a question nothing changes okay fine fair enough okay so so now we've we've spoken again in the first half we looked at food being received for the blessed virgin mary now again let's look at the status of phatima islam what is happened here now if jebrail can bring he can talk to mary he talks to phatima yeah if jebrail can bring food to mary why can he not bring food to phatima and we have a narration in shea literature okay that the prophet peace be upon him and salami one day is eating prayer imam alayhi alayhi salams behind him the prophet finishes the prayer says i want to come home for dinner okay now that that moment when your father in law says i want to come home and you're just like if we have anything how am i going to tell the mrs and so on so when imam alayhi alayhi salams returns and he tells phatima zahra at your dad's come home for dinner phatima zahra is worried because there isn't nothing there she then goes in and she begins to recite verse 114 of surah five and by the way if any of you guys don't have uh dinner and you've got guests coming maybe you should do this and see if it works okay so surah five surah ten ma'idah verse 114 she remembers that these disciples of jesus said to him can god send us food from heaven yes yes i mean i mean i i i can read it here when the disciples said oh issa son of mariam will your lord consent to send down to us food from heaven food from heaven there's a question he said be careful of your duty to Allah if you are believers yes if you really believe in me a person who questions a prophet of god no straight away this person is a monaafiq okay okay some let's give benefit of the doubt maybe in a moment where they're trying to see from they want to see yaqeen with their own eyes most of the time those who question the prophet's knowledge are monaafiq in hypocrites and if anyone you see get root to a prophet that's a monaafiq and anyone who raises their voice against the prophet is a monaafiq put these criteria these are all hypocrites now mariam received food from the heavens phatama prays to Allah the lines of nabi issa in surah five verse 114 okay okay the same way that jesus spoke to you when you sent him food send us and that jibra it came with food for phatma so therefore mariam spoke to jibra phatma does mariam received food from jibra so that's phatma okay what's next let's keep going on the parallels yeah so now we've spoken about the hill mary's and the rosebeater again now let's look at the same is there anything more famous than islam than the tasbeeh of phatama tizzahra many muslims in the world you will find that they will do the tasbeeh of phatama and there are many muslims in the world who don't know that this is the tasbeeh of phatama you will see them doing subhanallah after salat 33 times alhamdulillah 33 times allahu akbar 34 times by the way i remember one of the i'm doing this and i remember one of the ulama he used to say he used to never do tasbeeh in front of every you know sometimes you have people who will sit like this and do tasbeeh and there are some who don't just let us they'll start playing i don't know what's going on with this one have you seen the ones who start like this i have yes yeah so you'll think you hold on a minute i know that tasbeeh is is when you're just like subhanallah but when you start flicking like this i don't know what's going on in some cases this is holy material um but then you've got this this um i remember one one alim he would never do tasbeeh but you know what he would do with the tasbeeh he would do tasbeeh but put it under his abaya okay so that no there's no showing off in hebata now father zahra imam alayhi salam they asked the father father law for another help on the house and tells them i'll give you something better than the help right 33 times subhanallah 33 times alhamdulillah 34 times and father zahra not only that is her tasbeeh as a gift from her father she used to make sabha right she used to make the rosary beads mariam had the rosary bead with people to hail marries and decades phatama has the rosary beads and the rosary bead of phatama she used to collect what dust from the from the grave of hamsa hamsa yes yes and today you have people when you go to that country and you go near the grave hamsa i said this is bid ha i don't come near hamsa why are you father zahra i used to collect it and she used to make the tasbeeh okay okay that's another and that's why i recommend everybody humbly i say this after salah you'll find that some of us shia we will straight away for example after salah we will say allahu akbar allahu akbar allahu akbar i remember someone absurdly thought that we say khan alameen khan alameen khan alameen meaning that jibrael should have gone to ali but he went to muhammad is absolutely stupidity but you know this envy and jealousy yeah of course now what we say is allahu akbar allahu akbar allahu akbar allahu then you have some people stand up straight away some people maybe go into dua allahumma for example allahumma niya salakum mujib atia rahmatik yeah imam sada alaihi salam says if you finish salah and you straight away do the tasbeeh alfati zahra alaihi salam 33 subhanallah 33 alhamdulillah 34 allahu akbar the fire of hell will never touch you imagine the baraka in the rosary bead of faat and the intercession will come to that a little bit later on as well so again the virgin mary gave birth at quite a young age to her divine son as it were prophet esau jesus so what happened again now let's look at the mary gives birth let's look at the age of as we said catholic priests say mary gave birth in her early teens and she died in her mid 40s according to some there's different opinions in christian belief in islam phatama gave birth to imam al-hasan when she was 10 11 years of age again similarity yes both become mothers at a young age okay okay um question um sinna did maria mary after giving birth to hazzad is al-islam no okay in islamic belief right okay so you've mentioned about the divine lady phatama said aslam al-haslam giving birth as it were at a young age and she gave birth you know to children obviously has hasnain al-islam zain al-umma kutthum salam al-haslam peace be upon all of them what's the status now of infallibility we've looked at the infallibility of uh mary now let's look at the infallibility criteria and the status of phatama zahra in the quran Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala refers to choosing and purifying and choosing mariam above all the women astafaki tahraki astafaki tahraki purifying you okay Allah when he wants to come purify a group of people to keep away sin from them which ayah do we have where Allah says i keep away all impurities 33 33 33 yes yes so phatama zahra even proof of her infallibility phatama zahra part of me the pleasure of phatama zahra the pleasure of Allah the angle of phatama zahra of Allah again that is pure it yes yes so in the same way Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala mentioned okay so again in the first part say now we've mentioned about the truthfulness or the siddiquah with the realm of reaching you know being truthful again now let's turn to phatama zahra aslam aleyhi waslam what is her status mariam sadiqa okay phatama is sadiqa mariam is tahrirah phatama is tahrirah phatama is zahra throughout her life never uttered a lie never backbid never gossiped never was someone who bought and defamed people's reputations everything she said if her father is sadaq then what will be produced except sadiqa of course alhamdulillah okay i want to spend a bit time on intercession now and we've spoken about intercession through her specifically you know the catholic school of thought in christianity what about phatama zahra aslam aleyhi waslam as an intercessor or intercession we as muslims majority of us believe that on the day of judgment there are certain personalities Allah has given the honor that they can intercede on our behalf i told course he says who can intercede on behalf of Allah accept the permission of Allah the martyr the shahid the truthful the sadiq the memorize of the quran the hafiz these are people who with the sincere are those who are able to intercede intercede who knows the quran but the lady in whose house the quran was revealed yes who's more truthful than phatama zahra who died as a martyr except phatama yes so therefore we believe that on the day of judgment like in christianity they believe mary is a source of intercessory salvation like wife we believe phatama zahra will be there especially for her lovers and the lovers of her sons okay okay so we spoke we ended the first half and we actually just continued the first half of the show about talking about the divine birth as it were and her having you know a son now let's talk about phatama zahra aslam aleyhi waslam and the birth and the son what can you talk about this what's up what's again what's the the parallel here mary has a son known as christ yeah who in christian belief is the one who saved humanity in islam phatama has a son called hussein who muslims shea sunn soofie wherever you go you'll find all of these different names of muslim groups all of them mentioned that hussein is the savior of the religion of islam had hussein aleyhi salam not risen against the corrupt rule of yazid son of muawya in the damaskan palaces the ones who were destroying the sunnah of his the teachings of his grandfather the prophet peace be upon this family then we would have all said aslam a la islam peace be upon the religion of islam okay but one man saved this religion likewise you see that parallel with jesus in christian thought okay okay we have questions here now two questions here now one question from salma what role did phatama zahra aslam play in spreading islam and also how can we get her intercession on the day of judgment in terms of what role did phatama zahra play in spreading of islam firstly the spiritual legacy of phatama you know it can be found in terms of the tespih that we have until today yes first secondly the representation politically of phatama zahra when she went with her father and her husband and her sons on the event of mubahela thirdly the sermon of phatama zahra is a sermon full of profound theology that if you dissect that sermon line by line the sermon of fedek of phatama zahra believe you me imam amir al mu'minin himself is the gate to the city of knowledge but phatama zahra if you look at the first 20 lines the way she talks about god you can write a book on monotheism just on her description of god subhanallah okay um salam alaykum why is bb malliam's name different in the bible as mary um it's a difference in language yeah and also the prophet's name is different in the bible not grow on such as joseph or david except prophet adam we have comment you have these different languages arab mayek hebrew arabic different pronunciations right okay so we're going into the last 10 minutes of the show and we've got still quite a bit to get through to um is there is there a an account as it were say now of where phatama zahra salam alaykum and you know mary met as it were what what can we say about this is there some sort of mystical spiritual connotation about will this firstly they meet literally in the world of hadith literally the full greatest woman yeah who yeah asya khadija mariam phatama so they literally meet that mystically when khadija gave birth in shia literature we believe mariam was one of the midwives who helped khadija when she was giving birth to why right because the koreish boycotted khadija okay koreish putting sanctions on the prophet she was this backbone religion would have spread were it not for the wealth of khadija and the sword of ali yes and so what you had was that when khadija was giving birth mariam was one of the midwives okay look at that beauty right mystical coming together okay okay if we talk about there's particular verse in the holy Quran surah alaykum verse 42 and i'll just read the translation out and when the angel said oh mariam surely Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of the world so that now that aside what can we say about phatama zahra mariam was the greatest woman according to the quran of her time when phatama was born phatama was seen as the greatest woman in the history of the religion of islam right so if someone comes and tells you that you believe that phatama zahra is the greatest lady about the quran says in allah we say that no on the contrary mariam was the greatest lady of her time when phatama was born phatama was the greatest right okay why yeah number of reasons why phatama has a pre-eternal presence okay yes i was going to sort of come to that phatama is not some arab girl there's others who are arab girls some are playing on swings some are running around with other kids some are worshiping idols phatama is not an arab girl in the pre-eternal realm adam is asking god for forgiveness using her name and the name of her husband and her father and her sons so you find that in the pre-eternal realm i ask anyone adam used mariam and phatama hmm yes phatama combines nubuwa and imama inna ataynaka al kawthar the khayran nabarakah is through phatama with all my love for mariam aleyhi salam and i'm under the feet of mariam yeah well phatama's son hossain saved islam phatama's great grandson al-mehdi is the one who brings justice onto the earth our sunni brethren believe that imam al-mehdi is not born but will come yes sure shea believe that he's born but he's an occultation like we believe jesus was an occultation khidr is an occultation others and so on um but there's no doubt that mehdi is from the sons of phatama some say mehdi is from the sons of hasan others say mehdi is from the line of khoshain i don't care ultimately it goes back to phatama of course no doubt no doubt about that some have even said that in hadith al kisa when we say them phatama they are phatama and her father and her husband and her sons and the secret bestowed within phatama there are a number of opinions as to what is the sin okay yeah it's one of the opinions that they give is that the man who brings justice on the earth mehdi alongside mary's son christ again parallel mary's son phatama's grandson at the end okay they're the ones who bring justice jesus because muslims don't believe that he's crucified no in the general opinion and phatama's grandson the mehdi okay okay so now we have just five minutes left viewers if you do want to put in your final questions and please do the telephone numbers oh two or three five one five oh one double nine you can also whatsapp your questions um just in terms of a summation as it were yes we've we've looked at both lives as it were and the biographies and it's you've spoken about the necessity as it were of the need for dialogue interfaith discussion but with a view to obviously progress as it were just in the last two or three minutes what would you say as it were you know to to really put the message out there to muslims christians as it were there are two fundamental verses i i believe in them the quran have to be applied today okay okay you'll find the closest brethren to you are the christians yeah in reciprocal love mawadah not just hub mawadah because their priests and their monks are humble human beings who when they hear the words of islam their eyes overflow with tears okay oh people of the book oh people of the book come to a joint world and i wish more muslims and christians came to this joint world there are christians out there who are saying islam is the most evil thing on the earth there are muslims out there who call the people who are christians nasranis and the shia rawafat and let's behead them like isis did where is the quran said yeah let's talk let's see what we have in common if we can build on that type of worldview love a reciprocity of dialogue true yes and they're coming together i think you're going to see better times ahead for our kinship not us yeah definitely definitely uh we have a question said now is there any relationship between fatima peace be upon her and the christian our lady of fatima i don't you see the thing is the the the visions that were seen there talk of a lady whose son will bring justice a lady of the rosary bead christians will interpret that as marrying okay i don't think many know that that could equally be far right and the rest is with god okay okay okay um so you know i think we've just run out of time i'm just going to check if there are any more questions left but i think we have gone through them all um so we have um one more question so i'll in son i'll in son yes yes i'm sorry sorry my mistake i'll in son also know it's sort of dark as it were yeah there's a particular verse in there that talks about feeding feeding correct without reward and without thanks what what do you have to say about that that just shows the one and who's he referring to the the beauty of the altruism and the generosity of mohammad and and the prophet told fatima and ali make a nether a mannet you know yes that's if they get better you're gonna fast for three days every time they're breaking their fast someone knocks at the door and wants some food and they altruistically give it and they give it for the sake of Allah you don't need to thank her don't need to reward us and that really highlighted that that family truly remained the family not only of god's guidance on earth but the family of generosity purity true okay viewers i think we've run out of time and uh i think you'll agree uh dr. siad marnaq shawani has done a absolutely superb job today in terms of breaking down the biographies and revealing the personalities as it were of the virgin mary and also fatima salam and aslam and if i can just add also you know when harida kisar um also mentions the status and the pivots as it were fatima salam aslam everything pointing to and from her her father her son and so on and so forth so with that we'd like to leave that um and we're gonna end the show now so see you again next week inshallah from dr. siad marnaq shawani and myself muhammad ali salamu alaykum