 Section 3 of the Symposium. This is a LibriVox recording. All LibriVox recordings are in the public domain. For more information or to volunteer, please visit LibriVox.org. Recording by Jeffrey Edwards. The Symposium by Plato. Translated by Benjamin Joett. Section 3. And now, taking my leave of you, I would rehearse A Tale of Love, which I heard from Diotima of Mantanaea. A woman wise in this and in many other kinds of knowledge, who in the days of old, when the Athenians offered sacrifice before the coming of the plague, delayed the disease ten years. She was my instructor in the art of love, and I shall repeat to you what she said to me, beginning with the admissions made by Agathon, which are nearly, if not quite the same, what I made to the wise woman when she questioned me. I think that this will be the easiest way, and I shall take both parts myself, as well as I can. As you, Agathon, suggested, I must speak first of the being and nature of love, and then of his works. First I said to her in nearly the same words which he used to me, that love was a mighty God, and likewise fair, and she proved to me, as I proved to him that, by my own showing, love was neither fair nor good. What do you mean, Diotima, I said? Is love then evil and foul? Hush, she cried. Must that be foul which is not fair? Certainly, I said. And is that which is not wise ignorant? Do you not see that there is a mean between wisdom and ignorance? And what may that be, I said. Right opinion, she replied, which, as you know, being incapable of giving a reason is not knowledge, bracket, for how can knowledge be devoid of reason, nor again ignorance, for neither can ignorance attain the truth, close bracket, but is clearly something which is a mean between ignorance and wisdom. Quite true, I replied. Do not then insist, she said, that what is not fair is of necessity foul, or what is not good evil, or infer that because love is not fair and good he is therefore foul and evil, for he is in a mean between them. Well, I said, love is surely admitted by all to be a great God, by those who know or by those who do not know, by all. And how Socrates, she said with a smile, can love be acknowledged to be a great God, by those who say that he is not a God at all. And who are they, I said. You and I are two of them, she replied. How can that be, I said. It is quite intelligible, she replied, for you yourself would acknowledge that the gods are happy and fair, of course you would. Would you dare to say that any God was not? Certainly not, I replied. And you mean by the happy, those who are the possessors of things good or fair? Yes. And you admitted that love, because he was in want, desires those good and fair things of which he is in want? Yes, I did. But how can he be a God who has no portion in what is either good or fair? Impossible. Then you see that you also deny the divinity of love. What then is love, I asked. Is he mortal? No. What then? As in the former instances, he is neither mortal nor immortal, but in a mean between the two. What is he, Diatima? He is a great spirit, and like all spirits, he is intermediate between the divine and mortal. And what, I said, is his power? He interprets, she replied, between gods and men, conveying and taking across to the gods the prayers and sacrifices of men, into men the commands and replies of the gods. He is the mediator who spans the chasm which divides them, and therefore in him all is bound together, and through him the arts of the prophet and the priest, their sacrifices and mysteries and charms, and all prophecy and incantation find their way. For God mingles not with man, but through love all the intercourse and converse of God with man, whether awake or asleep, is carried on. The wisdom which understands this is spiritual. All other wisdom, such as that of arts and handicrafts, is mean and vulgar. Now these spirits or intermediate powers are many and diverse, and one of them is love. And who, I said, was his father and who his mother? The tale, she said, will take time. Nevertheless, I will tell you. On the birthday of Aphrodite, there was a feast of the gods, which the god Poros or Plenty, who is the son of Metis or discretion, was one of the guests. When the feast was over, Penia or Poverty, as the manner is on such occasions, came about the door to beg. Now Plenty, who was the worse for Nectar? Bracket, there was no wine in those days, closed bracket, went into the garden of Zeus and fell into a heavy sleep, and Poverty, considering her own straightened circumstances, plotted to have a child by him. And accordingly, she lay down at his side and conceived love, who partly because he is naturally a lover of the beautiful, and because Aphrodite is herself beautiful, and also because he was born on her birthday, is her follower and attendant. And as his parentages, so also are his fortunes. In the first place, he is always poor and anything but tender and fair. As the many imagine him, and he is rough and squalid and has no shoes nor house to dwell in, on the bare earth exposed he lies under the open heaven, in the streets or at the doors of houses, taking his rest, and like his mother he is always in distress. Like his father too, whom he also partly resembles, he is always plotting against the fair and good. He is bold, enterprising, strong, a mighty hunter, always weaving some intrigue or other, keen in the pursuit of wisdom, fertile in resources, a philosopher at all times terrible as an enchanter, sorcerer, sophist. He is by nature neither mortal nor immortal, but alive and flourishing at one moment when he is in plenty and dead at another moment, and again alive by reason of his father's nature. But that which is always flowing in is always flowing out, so he is never in want and never in wealth, and further he is a mean between ignorance and knowledge. The truth of the matter is this, no god is a philosopher or seeker after wisdom, for he is wise already, nor does any man who is wise seek after wisdom. Neither do the ignorant seek after wisdom, for herein is the evil of ignorance, that he who is neither good nor wise is nevertheless satisfied with himself. He has no desire for that which he feels no want. But who then, Dayatima, I said, are the lovers of wisdom if they are neither the wise nor the foolish? A child may answer that question, she replied, they are those who are in a mean between the two. Love is one of them, for wisdom is a most beautiful thing and love is of the beautiful and therefore love is also a philosopher or lover of wisdom, and being a lover of wisdom is the mean between the wise and the ignorant. And of this too his birth is the cause, for his father is wealthy and wise and his mother poor and foolish. Such, my dear Socrates, is the nature of the spirit of love. The error in your conception of him was very natural and as I imagine from what you say has arisen out of a confusion of love and the beloved which made you think that love was all beautiful. For the beloved is the truly beautiful and delicate and perfect and blessed. But the principle of love is of another nature and is such as I have described. I said, oh thou stranger woman thou sayest well, but assuming love to be such as you say what is the use of him to men? That, Socrates, she replied, I will attempt to unfold of his nature and birth I have already spoken that love is of the beautiful but someone will say of the beautiful in what? Socrates and Diatema. Or rather, let me put the question more clearly and ask, when a man loves the beautiful what does he desire? I answered her that the beautiful may be his. Still, she said the answer suggests a further question what is given by the possession of beauty? To what you have asked, I replied no answer ready. Then, she said let me put the word good in the place of the beautiful and repeat the question once more if he who loves loves the good what is it then that he loves? The possession of the good, I said and what does he gain who possesses the good? Happiness, I replied there is less difficulty in answering that question. Yes, she said happy are made happy by the acquisition of good things nor is there any need to ask why a man desires happiness the answer is already final you are right, I said and is this wish and this desire common to all? and do all men always desire their own good? or only some men? what say you? all men, I replied the desire is common to all she rejoined are not all men, Socrates said to love, but only some of them whereas you say that all men are always loving the same things I myself wonder, I said why this is there is nothing to wonder at, she replied the reason is that one part of love is separated off and receives the name of the whole but the other parts have other names given illustration I said she answered me as follows there is poetry which as you know is complex and manifold all creation or passage of non-being into being is poetry or making and the processes of all art are creative and the masters of arts are all poets or makers very true still she said you know that they are not called poets but have other names, only that portion of the art which is separated off from the rest and is concerned with music and meter is termed poetry and they who possess poetry in this sense of the word are called poets very true I said and the same holds of love for you may say generally that all desire of good and happiness is only the great and subtle power of love but they who are drawn towards him by any other path of money making or gymnastics or philosophy are not called lovers the name of the whole is appropriated to those whose affection takes one form only they alone are said to love or to be lovers I dare say I replied that you are right yes she added and you hear people say that lovers are seeking for their other half but I say that they are seeking neither for the half of themselves nor for the whole unless the half or the whole be also a good and they will cut off their own hands and feet and cast them away if they are evil for they love not what is their own unless per chance there be someone who calls what belongs to him the good and what belongs to another the evil for there is nothing which men love but the good is there anything certainly I should say that there is nothing then she said the simple truth is that men love the good yes I said to which must be added that they love the possession of the good yes that must be added and not only the possession but the everlasting possession of the good that must be added too then love she said maybe describe generally as the love of the everlasting possession of the good that is most true then if this be the nature of love can you tell me further she said what is the manner of the pursuit what are they doing who show all this eagerness and heat which is called love and what is the object which they have in view answer me nay diatima I replied if I had known I should not have wondered at your wisdom neither should I have come to learn from you about this very matter well she said I will teach you the object which they have in view is birth in beauty whether of body or soul I do not understand you I said the oracle requires an explanation I will make my meaning clear she replied I mean to say that all men are bringing to the birth in their bodies and in their souls there is a certain age at which human nature is desirous of procreation procreation which must be in beauty and not in deformity and this procreation is the union of man and woman and is a divine thing for conception and generation are an immortal principle in the mortal creature and in the inharmonious they can never be but the deformed is always inharmonious with the divine inharmonious beauty then is the destiny or goddess of parturation who presides at birth and therefore when approaching beauty the conceiving power is propituous and diffusive and benign and begets and bears fruit at the sight of ugliness she frowns and contracts and has a sense of pain and turns away and shrivels up and not without a pang refrains from conception and is the reason why when the hour of conception arrives and the teeming nature is full there is such a flutter and ecstasy about beauty whose approach is the alleviation of the pain of travail for love Socrates is not as you imagine the love of the beautiful only what then the love of generation and of birth in beauty yes I said yes indeed she replied but why of generation because to the mortal creature generation is a sort of eternity and immortality and if as has been already admitted love is of the everlasting possession of the good all men will necessarily desire immortality together with good wherefore love is of immortality all this she taught me at various times when she spoke of love and I remember her once saying to me what is the cause Socrates of love and the attendant desire see you not how all animals birds as well as beasts in their desire of procreation are in agony when they take the infection of love which begins with the desire of union where too is added the care of offspring on whose behalf the beast are ready to battle against the strongest even to the utmost and to die for them and will let themselves be tormented with hunger or suffer anything in order to maintain their young man may be supposed to act thus for reason but why should animals have these passionate feelings can you tell me why again or applied that I did not know she said to me and do you expect ever to become in the art of love if you do not know this but I have already told you that my ignorance is the reason why I come to you for I am conscious that I want to teach her tell me then the cause of this and of the other mysteries of love Marvel not she said if you believe that love is of the immortal as we have several times acknowledged for here again and on the same principle too the mortal nature is seeking as far as is possible to be everlasting and immortal and this is only to be attained by generation because generation always believes behind a new existence in the place of the old may even in the life of the same individual there is succession and not absolute unity a man is called the same and yet in the short interval which elapses between youth and age and in which every animal is said to have an identity he is undergoing a perpetual process of loss and reparation hair, flesh, bones blood and the whole body are always changing which is true not only of the body but also of the soul whose habits tempers, opinions, desires pleasures, pains fears never remain the same in any one of us but are always coming and going and equally true of knowledge what is still more surprising to us mortals not only do the sciences in general spring up and decay so that in respect of them we are never the same but each of them individually experiences a like change for what is implied in the word recollection but the departure of knowledge which is ever being forgotten and is renewed and preserved by recollection and appears to be the same although in reality new according to that law of succession by which all mortal things are preserved not absolutely the same but by substitution the old worn out mortality leaving another new and similar existence behind unlike the divine which is always the same and not another and in this way Socrates the mortal body or mortal anything partakes of immortality but the immortal in another way marvel not then at the love which all men have of their offspring for that universal love and interest is for the sake of immortality I was astonished at her words and said is this really true oh thou wise diotema and she answered with all the authority of an accomplished sophist of that Socrates you may be assured think only of the ambition of men and you will wonder at the senselessness of their ways as you consider how they are stirred up by the love of an immortality of fame they are ready to run all risks greater far than they would have run for their children and to spend money and undergo any sort of toil and even to die for the sake of leaving behind them a name which shall be eternal do you imagine that Alcestus would have died to save Admitus or Achilles to avenge Patroclus or your own courges to preserve the kingdom for his sons if they had not imagined that the memory of their virtues which still survives among us would be immortal nay she said I am persuaded that all men do all things and the better they are the more they do them in hope of the glorious fame of immortal virtue for they desire the immortal those who are pregnant in the body only we take themselves to women this is the character of their love their offspring as they hope will preserve their memory and giving them the blessedness and immortality which they desire in the future but souls which are pregnant for there certainly are men who are more creative in their souls than in their bodies conceive that which is proper for the soul to conceive or contain and what are these conceptions wisdom and virtue in general these are poets and all artists who are deserving of the name inventor but the greatest and fairest sort of wisdom by far is that which is concerned with the ordering of states and families and which is called temperance and justice and he who in youth has the seed of these implanted in him and is himself inspired when he comes to maturity desires to beget and generate he wonders about seeking beauty that he may beget for in deformity he will beget nothing and naturally embraces the beautiful rather than the deformed body above all when he finds a fair and noble and well nurtured soul he embraces the two in one and to such an one he is full of speech about virtue and the nature and pursuits of a good man and he tries to educate him and at the touch of the beautiful which is ever present to his memory even when absent he brings forth that which he had conceived long before and in company with him tins that which he brings forth and they are married by a far nearer tie and have a closer friendship than those who beget mortal children for the children who are their common offspring are fairer and more immortal who when he thinks of Homer and Hesiod and other great poets would not rather have their children than ordinary human ones who would not emulate them in the creation of children such as theirs which have preserved their memory and given them everlasting glory or who would not have such children as like Hergus left behind him to be the saviours not over of Lacedemon but of Hellas as one may say there is Solon too who is the revered father of Athenian laws and many others there are in many other places among Hellenes and Barbarians who have given to the world many noble works and have been the parents of virtue of every kind and many temples have been raised in their honour for the sake of children such as theirs which were never raised in honour of anyone for the sake of his mortal children these are the lesser mysteries of love into which even you of Socrates may enter to the greater and more hidden ones which are the crown of these if you pursue them in a right spirit they will lead I know not whether you will be able to attain but I will do my utmost to inform you and do you follow if you can for he who would proceed a right in this matter should begin in youth to visit beautiful forms and first if you be guided by his instructor a right to love one such form only out of that he should create fair thoughts and soon he will of himself perceive that the beauty of one form is akin to the beauty of another and then if beauty of the form in general is his pursuit how foolish would he be not to recognize that the beauty in every form is and the same and when he perceives this he will abate his violent love of the one which he will despise and deem a small thing and will become a lover of all beautiful forms in the next stage he will consider that the beauty of the mind is more honourable than the beauty outward form so that if a virtuous soul have but a little comeliness he will be content to love and tend him and will search out and bring to the birth thoughts which may improve the young until he is compelled to contemplate and see the beauty of institutions and laws and to understand that the beauty of them all is of one family and that personal beauty is a trifle and after laws and institutions he will go on to science that he may see their beauty being not like a servant in love with the beauty of one youth or man or institution himself a slave, mean and narrow minded but drawing towards and contemplating the vast sea of beauty he will create many fair and noble thoughts and notions in boundless love of wisdom until on that shore he grows and waxes strong and at last the vision is revealed to him of a single science which is the science of beauty everywhere to this I will proceed please to give me your very best attention he who has been instructed thus far in the things of love and who has learned to see the beautiful in due order and succession when he comes toward the end will suddenly perceive a nature of wondrous beauty bracket and this Socrates is the final cause of all our former toils close bracket a nature which in the first place is everlasting not growing in decaying or waxing and waning secondly not fair in one point of view and foul in another or at one time or in one relation or at one place fair at another time or in another relation or at another place foul as if fair to some and foul to others or in the likeness of a face or hands or any other part of the bodily frame or in any form of speech or knowledge or existing in any other being as for example in an animal or in heaven or in earth or in any other place but beauty absolute separate simple and everlasting which without diminution and without increase or any change is imparted to the ever growing and perishing beauties of all other things he who is ascending under the influence of true love begins to perceive that beauty is not far from the end and the true order of going or being led by another to the things of love is to begin from the beauties of earth and mount upwards for the sake of that other beauty using these as steps only and from one going on to two and from two to all fair forms and from fair forms to fair practices and from fair practices to fair notions until from fair notions he arrives at the notion of absolute beauty and at last knows what the essence of beauty is this my dear Socrates said the stranger of Mantania is that life above all others which man should live in the contemplation of beauty absolute a beauty which if he once beheld you would see not to be after the measure of gold and diamonds and fair boys and youths whose presence now entrances you and you and many a one would be content to live seeing them only and conversing with them without meat or drink if that were possible you only want to look at them and to be with them but what if man had eyes to see the true beauty and divine beauty I mean pure and clear and unalloyed not clogged with the reality and all the colors and vanities of human life sit there looking and holding converse with the true beauty simple and divine remember how in that communion only beholding beauty with the eye of the mind he will be able to bring forth not images of beauty but realities bracket for he has hold not of an image but of a reality close bracket and bringing forth become the friend of God and be immortal if mortal man may would that be an ignoble life such fadress and I speak not only to you but to all of you were the words of diatema and I am persuaded of their truth and being persuaded of them I try to persuade others that in the attainment of this end human nature will not easily find a helper better than love and therefore also I say that every man ought to honor him as I myself honor him and walk in his ways and exhort others to do the same and praise the power and spirit of love according to the measure of my ability now and ever the words which I have spoken you fadress may call an incomium of love or anything else which you please when socrates had done speaking the company applauded staphonies was beginning to say something in answer to the illusion which socrates had made to his own speech when suddenly there was a great knocking at the door of the house as of revelers and the sound of a flute girl was heard agathon told the attendants to go and see who were the intruders if they are friends of ours he said invite them in but if not say that the drinking is over a little while afterwards they heard the voice of alcibiades resounding in the court he was in a great state of intoxication and kept roaring and shouting where is agathon lead me to agathon and at length supported by the flute girl and some of his attendants he found his way to them hail friends he said appearing at the door crowned with a massive garland of ivy and violets his head flowing with ribbons will you have a very drunken man as a companion of your revels or shall I crown agathon which was my intention in coming and go away for I was unable to come yesterday therefore I am here today carrying on my head these ribbons that taking them from my own head I may crown the head of this fairest and wisest of men as I may be allowed to call him will you laugh at me because I am drunk yet I know very well that I am speaking the truth although you may laugh but first tell me if I come in shall we have the understanding of which I spoke will you drink with me or not the company were vociferous in begging that he would take his place among them and agathon specially invited him thereupon he was led in by the people who were with him and as he was being led intending to crown agathon he took the ribbons from his own hand and held them in front of his eyes he was thus prevented from seeing socrates who made way for him and alcibiades took the vacant place between agathon and socrates and in taking the place he embraced agathon and crowned him take off his sandals said agathon and let him make a third on the same couch by all means but who makes the third partner in our revels said alcibiades turning around and starting up as he caught sight of socrates by Heracles he said here is socrates always lying in wait for me and always as his way is coming out at all sorts of unsuspected places and now would have you to say for yourself and why are you lying here where I perceive that you have contrived to find a place not by a joker or a lover of jokes like Aristophanes but by the fairest of the company socrates turned to agathon and said I must ask you to protect me agathon for the passion of this man has grown quite a serious matter to me since I became his admirer I have never been allowed to speak to any other faire one or so much as to look at them if I do he goes wild with envy and jealousy and not only abuses me but can hardly keep his hands off me and at this moment he may do me some harm please to see to this and either reconcile me to him or if he attempts violence protect me as I am in bodily fear of his mad and passionate attempts there can never be reconciliation between you and me said alcibiades but for the present I will defer your chastisement and I must beg you agathon to give me back some of the ribbons that I may crown the marvelous head of this universal despot I would not have him complain of me for crowning you and neglecting him who in conversation is the conqueror of all mankind and this not only once as you were the day before yesterday but always where upon taking some of the ribbons he crowned socrates and again reclined then he said you seem my friends to be sober which is a thing not to be endured you must drink for that was the agreement under which I was admitted and I elect myself master of the feast until we are well drunk let us have a large goblet agathon or rather he said addressing the attendant bring me that wine cooler the wine cooler which had caught his eye was a vessel holding more than two courts this he filled and emptied and bathed the attendant filled it again for socrates observe my friends said alcibiades that this ingenious trick of mine will have no effect on socrates for he can drink any quantity of wine and all near being drunk socrates drank the cup which the attendant filled for him eriximachus said what is this alcibiades are we to have neither conversation nor singing over our cups but simply to drink as if we were thirsty alcibiades replied hail worthy son of a most wise and worthy sire the same to you said eriximachus but what shall we do that I leave to you said alcibiades quote the wise physician skilled our wounds to heal close quote shall prescribe and we will obey what do you want well said eriximachus before you appeared we had passed a resolution that each one of us in turn should make a speech in praise of love and as good a one as he could the turn was passed round from right and as all of us have spoken and you have not spoken but have well drunken you ought to speak and then impose upon socrates any task which you please and he on his right hand neighbor and so on that is good eriximachus said alcibiades and yet the comparison of a drunken man's speech with those of sober men is hardly fair and I should like to know sweet friend whether you believe what socrates was just now saying for I can assure you that the very reverse is the fact and that if I praise anyone but himself in his presence whether God or man he will hardly keep his hands off me for shame said socrates hold your tongue said alcibiades for by Poseidon there is no one else whom I will praise when you are of the company well then said eriximachus if you like praise socrates what do you think eriximachus said alcibiades shall I attack him and inflict the punishment before you all what are you about said socrates are you going to raise a laugh at my expense is that the meaning of your praise I am going to speak the truth if you will permit me I not only permit but exhort you to speak the truth then I will begin at once said alcibiades and if I say anything which is not true you may interrupt me if you will and say that is a lie though my intention is to speak the truth but you must not wonder if I speak anyhow as things come into my mind for the fluent and orderly enumeration of all your singularities is not a task which is easy to a man in my condition and now my boys I shall praise socrates in a figure which will appear to him to be a caricature and yet I speak not to make fun of him but only for the truth's sake I say that he is exactly like the busts of selenus which are set up in the statuary shops holding pipes and flutes in their mouths and they are made to open in the middle and have images of gods inside them I say also that he is like marcius the satyr you yourself will not deny socrates that your face is like that of a satyr I and there is a resemblance in other points too for example you are a bully as I can prove by witnesses if you will not confess and are you not a flute player that you are and a performer far more wonderful than marcius he indeed with instruments used to charm the souls of men by the power of his breath and the players of his music do so still for the melodies of Olympus are derived from marcius who taught them and these whether they are played by a great master or by a miserable flute girl have a power which no others have they alone possess the soul and reveal the wants of those who have need of gods and mysteries because they are divine but you produce the same effect with your words only and do not require the flute when we hear any other speaker even a very good one he produces absolutely no effect upon us or not so much whereas the mere fragments of you and your words even at second hand and however imperfectly repeated amaze and possess the souls of every man woman and child who comes within hearing of them and if I were not afraid that you would think me hopelessly drunk I would have sworn as well as spoken to the influence which they have always had and still have over me for my heart leaps within me more than that of any coribantian reveler and my eyes rain tears when I hear them and I observe that many others are affected in the same manner I have heard Pericles and other great orators and I thought that they spoke well but I never had any similar feeling my soul was not stirred by them and I angry at the thought of my own slavish state but this Marcius has often brought me to such a pass that I have felt as if I could hardly endure the life which I am leading Bracket, this Socrates you will admit close bracket and I am conscious that if I did not shut my ears against him and fly as from the voice of the siren my fate would be like that of others he would transfix me and I should grow old sitting at his feet and he makes me confess that I ought not to live as I do neglecting the wants of my own soul and busying myself with the concerns of the Athenians therefore I hold my ears and tear myself away from him and he is the only person who ever made me ashamed which you might think not to be in my nature and there is no one else who does the same for I know that I cannot answer him or say that I ought not to do as he bids but when I leave his presence love of popularity gets the better of me and therefore I run away and fly from him and when I see him I am ashamed of what I have confessed to him many a time have I wished that he were dead and yet I know that I should be much more sorry than glad if he were to die so that I am at my wit's end and this is what I and many others have suffered from the flute playing of this Seder yet hear me once more while I show you how exact the image is and how marvelous his power for let me tell you none of you know him but I will reveal him to you having begun I must go on see you how fond he is of the fair he is always with them and is always being smitten by them and then again he knows nothing and is ignorant of all things such is the appearance which he puts on is he not like a silliness in this to be sure he is the Seder mask is the carved head of the silliness but oh my companions and drink when he is opened what temperance there is residing within know you that beauty and wealth and honor at which the many wonder are of no account with him and are utterly despised by him he regards not at all the persons who are gifted with them mankind are nothing to him all his life is spent but when I opened him and looked within at his serious purpose I saw in him divine and golden images of such fascinating beauty that I was ready to do in a moment whenever Socrates commanded they may have escaped the observation of others but I saw them now I fancied that he was seriously enamored of my beauty and I thought that I should therefore have a grand opportunity of hearing him tell me what he knew or I had a wonderful opinion of the attractions of my youth in the prosecution of this design when I next went to him I sent away the attendant who usually accompanied me Bracket I will confess the whole truth and beg you to listen and if I speak falsely do you Socrates expose the falsehood close Bracket well he and I were alone together and I thought that when there was nobody with us I should hear him speak the language which lovers used to their loves when they are by themselves and I was delighted nothing of the sort he conversed as usual and spent the day with me and then went away afterwards I challenged him to the palestra and he wrestled and closed with me several times when there was no one present I fancied that I might succeed in this manner not a bit I made no way with him lastly as I had failed hitherto I thought that I must take stronger measures and attack him boldly and as I had begun not give him up but see how matter stood between him and me so I invited him to sup with me just as if he were a fair youth and I a designing lover he was not easily persuaded to come he did however after a while accept the invitation and when he came the first time he wanted to go away at once as soon as supper was over and I had not the face to detain him the second time still in pursuance of my design after we had supped I went on conversing far into the night and when he wanted to go away I pretended that the hour was late and that he had much better remain so he lay down on the couch next to me the same on which he had supped and there was no one but ourselves sleeping in the apartment all this may be told without shame to anyone but what follows I could hardly tell you if I were sober yet as the proverb says in vino veritas whether the boys or without them and therefore I must speak nor again should I be justified in concealing the lofty actions of Socrates when I come to praise him moreover I felt the serpents sting and he who has suffered as they say is willing to tell his fellow sufferers only as they alone will be likely to understand him and will not be extreme in judging of the sayings or doings which have been run from his agony for I have been bitten by a more than viper's tooth I have known in my soul or in my heart or in some other part that worst of pains more violent in ingenuous use than any serpents tooth the pain of philosophy which will make a man say or do anything and you whom I see around me Phaedrus and Agathon Pachis and Pausanias and Aristodemus and Aristophanes all of you and I need not say Socrates himself have had experience of the same madness and passion in your longing after wisdom therefore listen and excuse my doings then and my sayings now but let the attendants and other profane and unmannered persons close up the doors of their ears when the lamp was put out and the servants had gone away and had nothing to do with him and have no more ambiguity so I gave him a shake and I said Socrates are you asleep no he said do you know what I am meditating what are you meditating he said I think I replied that of all the lovers whom I have ever had you are the only one who is worthy of me and you appear to be too modest to speak now I feel that I should be a fool to use you this or any other favor and therefore I come to lay at your feet all that I have and all that my friends have in the hopes that you will assist me in the way of virtue which I desire above all things and in which I believe that you can help me better than anyone else and I should certainly have more reason to be ashamed of what wise men would say if I were to refuse a favor to such as you then of what the world would say of me if I granted it to these words he replied in the ironical manner which is so characteristic of him Alcibiades my friend you have indeed an elevated aim if what you say is true and if there really is in me any power by which you may become better truly you must see in me some rare beauty of a kind infinitely higher than any which I see in you and therefore if you mean to share with me and to exchange beauty for beauty you will have greatly the advantage of me you will gain true beauty in return for appearances like diamede, gold in exchange for brass but look again sweet friend and see whether you are not deceived in me the mind begins to grow critical when the bodily eye fails and it will be a long time before you get old hearing this I said I have told you my purpose which is quite serious and do you consider what you think best for you and me that is good he said at some other time then we will consider and act as seems best about this and other matters whereupon I fancied that he was smitten and that the words which I had uttered like arrows had wounded him and so without waiting to hear more I got up and throwing my coat about him crept under his thread bear cloak as the time of year was winter and there I lay during the whole night having this wonderful monster in my arms this again Socrates will not be denied by you and yet notwithstanding all he was so superior to my solicitations so contemptuous and derisive and disdainful of my beauty which really as I fancied had some attractions here oh judges for judges you shall be of the haughty virtue of Socrates nothing more happened but in the morning when I woke bracket let all the gods and goddesses be my witnesses close bracket I arose as from the coach of a father or an elder brother what do you supposed must have been my feeling after this rejection at the thought of my own dishonor and yet I could not help wondering at his natural temperance and self restraint and manliness I never imagined that I could work with a man such as he is in wisdom and endurance and therefore I could not be angry with him or renounce his company any more than I could hope to win him for I well knew that if Ajax could not be wounded by steel much less he by money and my only chance of captivating him by my personal attractions had failed so I was at my wit's end no one was ever more hopelessly enslaved by another all this happened before he and I went on the expedition to Potodaya there we messed together and I had the opportunity of observing his extraordinary power of sustaining fatigue his endurance was simply marvelous when being cut off from our supplies we were compelled to go without food on such occasions which often happen in time of war he was superior not only to me but to everybody there was no one to be compared to him yet at a festival he was the only person who had any real powers of enjoyment though not willing to drink he could if compelled beat us all at that wonderful to relate no human being had ever seen Socrates drunk and his powers if I am not mistaken will be tested before long his fortitude in enduring the cold was also surprising there was a severe frost for the winter in that region is really tremendous and everybody else either remained indoors or if they went out had on an amazing quantity of clothes and were well shot and had their feet swathe and felt in fleeces in the midst of this Socrates with his bare feet on the ice and in his ordinary dress marched better than the other soldiers who had shoes and they looked daggers at him because he seemed to despise them I have told you one tale and now I must tell you another which is worth hearing of the doings and sufferings of the enduring man while he was on the expedition one morning he was thinking about something which he could not resolve he would not give it up but continued thinking from early dawn until noon there he stood fixed in thought and at noon attention was drawn to him and the rumor ran through the wandering crowd that Socrates had been standing and thinking about something ever since the break of day at last in the evening after supper some Ionians out of curiosity bracket I should explain that this was not in the winter but in the summer close bracket brought out their mats and slept in the open air that they might watch him and see whether he would stand all night there he stood until the following morning and with the return of light he offered up a prayer to the sun and went his way I will also tell if you please and indeed I am bound to tell of his courage in battle for who but he saved my life this was the engagement in which I received the prize of valor for I was wounded and he would not leave me but he rescued me and my arms and he ought to have received the prize of valor which the generals wanted to confer on me partly on account of my rank and I told them so bracket this again Socrates will not impeach or deny close bracket but he was more eager than the generals that I and not he should have the prize there was another occasion on which his behavior was very remarkable in the flight of the army after the battle of Delium where he served among the heavy armed I had a better opportunity of seeing him than at Potodaea for I was myself on horseback and therefore comparatively out of danger he and latches were retreating for the troops were in flight and I met them and told them not to be discouraged I remained with them and there you might see him Aristophanes as you described just as he is in the streets of Athens stocking like a pelican and rolling his eyes calmly contemplating enemies as well as friends and making very intelligible to anybody even from a distance that whoever attacked him would be likely to meet with a stout resistance and in this way he and his companion escaped for this is the sort of man who has never touched in war those only are pursued who are running away headlong I particularly observed how superior he was to latches in presence of mind many are the marvels which I might narrate in praise of Socrates most of his ways might perhaps be paralleled in another man but his absolute unlikeness to any human being that is or ever has mean is perfectly astonishing you may imagine Brassidus and others to have been like Achilles or you may imagine Nestor and Antonor to have been like Pericles and the same may be said of other famous men but of this strange being you will never be able to find any likeness however remote either among men who now are or whoever have been other than that which I have already suggested of Silenus and the Saders and they represent in a figure not only himself but his words for although I forgot to mention this to you before his words are like the images of Silenus which open they are ridiculous when you first hear them he closed them in language that is like the skin of the wanton satyr for his talk is of pack asses and smiths and cobblers and couriers and he is always repeating the same things in the same words so that any ignorant or inexperienced person might feel disposed to laugh at him but he who opens the bust and sees what is within will find that they are the only words which have a meaning in them and also find a bounding in fair images of virtue and of the widest comprehension or rather extending to the whole duty of a good and honorable man this my friends is my praise of Socrates I have added my blame of him for all his ill treatment of me and he has ill treated not only me but Charmedes the son of Glaucon and Euthidimus the son of Diocles and many others in the same way beginning as their lover he has ended by making them pay their addresses to him wherefore I say to you Agathon be not deceived by him learn from me and take warning and do not be a fool and learn by experience as the proverb says when Alcibiades had finished there was a laugh at his outspokenness for he seemed to be still in love with Socrates you are sober Alcibiades said Socrates or you would never have gone so far about to hide the purpose of your Seder's praises for all this long story is only an ingenious circumlocution of which the point comes in by the way at the end you want to get up a quarrel between me and Agathon and your notion is that I ought to love you and nobody else and that you and you only ought to love Agathon but the plot of this satiric or Selenic drama has been detected which you must not allow him Agathon to set us at variance I believe you are right said Agathon and I am disposed to think that his intention in placing himself between you and me was only to divide us but he shall gain nothing by that move for I will go and lie on the coach next to you yes yes replied Socrates by all means come here and lie on the coach below me Alas said Alcibiades how I am fooled by this man he is determined to get the better of me at every turn I do beseech you allow Agathon to lie between us certainly not said Socrates as you praised me and I in turn ought to praise my neighbor on the right he will be out of order in praising me again when he ought rather to be praised by me and I must entreat you to consent to this and not be jealous for I have a great desire to praise the youth Hurrah! cried Agathon I will rise instantly that I may be praised by Socrates the usual way said Alcibiades where Socrates is no one else has any chance with the fair and now how readily has he invented a specious reason for attracting Agathon to himself Agathon rose in order that he might take his place on the coach by Socrates only a band of revelers entered and spoiled the order of the banquet someone who was going out having left the door open they had found their way in and made themselves at home great confusion ensued and everyone was compelled to drink large quantities of wine Aristodema said that Eriximachus Phaedrus and others went away he himself fell asleep and as the nights were long took a good rest he was awakened towards daybreak by a crowing of cocks and when he awoke the others were either asleep or had gone away there remained only Socrates Aristophanes and Agathon who were drinking out of a large goblet which they passed around and Socrates was discoursing to them Aristodemus was only half awake and he did not hear the beginning of the discourse the chief thing which he remembered was Socrates compelling the other two to acknowledge that the genius of comedy was the same with that of tragedy and that the true artist in tragedy was an artist in comedy also to this they were constrained to a scent being drowsy and not quite following the argument and first of all Aristophanes dropped off then when the day was already dawning Agathon Socrates having laid them to sleep rose to depart Aristodemus as his manner was falling him at the Lyceum he took a bath as usual in the evening he retired to rest at his own home End of section 3 Recording by Jeffrey Edwards End of the Symposium by Plato Translated by Benjamin Joett