 think-tech Hawaii's law across the sea program. Today we're going across the sea to talk with Alona Ray. Alona was born in Ukraine. Alona is a lawyer. She graduated from law school in Kiev and then moved to the United States in 2011. After coming to Hawaii, Alona attended and graduated from the William S. Richardson School of Law at the University of Hawaii in 2017. She then passed the Hawaii bar in 2018. Alona now lives in Richmond, Virginia with her husband and two young children. Alona wrote an article about Russia's invasion of Ukraine that was published in the Honolulu Star Advertiser about a month ago, on April 25th. Alona's article begins with, how are you? The words she asks her family in Ukraine every day and concludes with the words, pray for Ukraine. I've asked Alona to follow up on those words and share her personal knowledge and insights concerning current events in Ukraine because I think it's important to keep talking about these issues and to share knowledge, especially personal knowledge. So Alona, welcome. It's good to see you. How are you? Thank you for having me. Now I want to ask you first, why did you write this article that appeared in the Honolulu Star Advertiser? Ukraine is a war and everyone needs to hear about it every day, not to forget for a minute because if people forget around the world, then Ukraine is lost. Yeah and with so many different things going on in the United States, it's easy to forget. Okay, so you wrote the article about a month ago. What's happened in Ukraine specifically since you wrote the article? Yeah, a lot has happened. Ukraine pushed Russian forces away from Kiev and that's when everyone saw Bucha Irpien and other cities and all the horrific things that they have done to my country and also now they moved on to Eastern Ukraine. They're trying to take actually my hometown, Kramators, they're trying to encircle it and take that area. Ukraine also had to temporary give Mariupol to Russia because Ukraine appreciates every single person in every single life and Russia wasn't allowing Ukraine to have any humanitarian corridors and people were dying from starvation and just they didn't have water, medicine, nothing and this was just awful events for Mariupol and people were buried in mass graves and people were just dying daily. So Ukraine wanted to save those soldiers and Ukraine said we will let Russia have the territory, just let us evacuate those as hostile soldiers and they were supposed to be evacuated to Ukraine with Russia allowing corridors through Russia instead Russia took them and trying to prosecute now those soldiers as terrorists. Okay now that's something I hadn't heard before in American news coverage. Are we getting all the news? Does American news cover everything that is happening in Ukraine or is it missing? Like you mentioned America has lots of news of its own with Robbie Wade to join that trial and you know awful school shooting in Texas so America just can't cover all the news. America covers some but for Ukraine this is not news for Ukraine this is everyday life that everyone is living. We have one main channel with news coverage 24-7 they're talking about every dad person and about every hero and about every soldier captured so it's just I think that it's just not enough coverage for that purpose. So it's not intentional it's what I hear you're saying it's not they're not trying to US news coverage is not trying to hide anything it's just there's just too much going on in the world and you pay attention every day to Ukraine and you watch the news can you can you watch it are you able to see the channel? Yeah I'm actually watching it 24-7 Ukraine offers multiple sources that are there is a channel called Telegram there is a channel that I personally use is Rada on YouTube because living in the States I don't I don't have satellites so that's what I use but right now currently all Ukrainian channels got together around this one Rada channel and they all show news at the same time they take turns and they have been transmitting this war since it started and they haven't paused for a minute it's been going on for 97 days now. So I mean can you point out some of the things that have been missed that you've seen I mean one of the things you mentioned was this the soldiers that were supposed to have been repatriated were actually not anything else like that that that has been missed or that that we should pay attention to? It's hard for me to tell what exact stories are missed because I would have to read all of the news all the time to pinpoint which ones are used but what is missed a lot I think that America shows some news and even those news it shows filtered in a way that news are more censored in America because in Ukraine when something happens it happened we don't doubt the person if this 60 year old 60 year old woman running across the field towards Ukrainian soldiers and she claims she was being raped by Russian soldiers for Ukraine it has happened and in America they would say that it's possible it happened but we don't have true because for Ukraine we don't need any more clue we live in a world zone and that's everyday is live so I guess it's just more censored. Okay now let me ask you this in your article you write that this conflict is genocide why why did you say that? I mean I've heard the word but why what prompted you to write that in your article? You know the day the war two days before the war started Putin gave a speech about Ukraine and about what he thinks about the conflict no well before the conflict what he thinks about Ukraine and back then he said that he does not think Ukraine is a nation he does not think that Ukraine is a country he does not think that it was every country that it was always part of the Russia and it was Lenin's project and that's it that at some point it was just a project and it failed because we've seen Maidan we've seen other revolutions for him that's a failure so he claimed that Ukraine doesn't exist so simply that and then two days later I talked to my parents about it and I said you have to run you've before I didn't think that anything was going to happen but after I heard him say that I knew that he has no he doesn't care about human life especially if it's Ukrainian life he doesn't appreciate them for who they are and he doesn't think that Ukrainians should be independent I knew that that would be war that is pretty much a war proclamation which was proved later that it was recorded on the same day as his war proclamation to Ukraine it was just in his attitude it was all this and what he is committing today in Ukraine he is trying to get rid of Ukraine as just people as cultures everything he is getting rid of all the infrastructure he is not trying to just as he claimed originally that it was military operation it was never military operation they were destroying the buildings they were destroying civilians they were killing everybody and the way they are treating people forcing right now the deportations they're kidnapped in children from the orphanages in Daniyansk area they they're committing all these awful crimes they forced over 40 000 people out of Ukraine and forcefully deporting them into their undeveloped regions in Russia to just be free labor or something I don't know so they're trying to just get rid of like erase Ukraine and they've been trying to do that for a very long time this war is not the beginning of it it has been you know they've been trying to do that probably since before 1900 okay well that again it's something that I've not been aware of the one other thing is you mentioned that you know people are being killed in Ukraine now we we know that but I mean we really don't know what we're talking about in numbers do you do you is there anything that you can share or that you know about with respect to how many soldiers and civilians and children are being killed in Ukraine it's impossible to know number I would say it's tens of thousands of people knowing about those mass graves in Butcher that are still being uncovered knowing about those mass graves in Mariupol that we don't have access to and especially with Russia they have a portable crematory where they're trying to hide their work crimes they're literally using that on a battlefield so it's impossible to say how many civilians they killed so far and also I actually wrote this down to to tell you the correct number so so far 689 children have been injured and out of them 243 have been killed and 446 are injured those are awful numbers when I hear the stories of everyone in Ukraine of this innocent five-month-old child was killed was her own mom at their home in Odessa from bombing and there are just so many of stories like that and how many children have been orphaned and how many children have been over 2000 children have been forcefully deported to Russia and their identity will forever be erased because they will grow up thinking they're Russians and knowing how much Russia can brainwash people those people those children will be brainwashed to be Russians and it's awful and we of course here in the United States are facing children's deaths but not that many but I mean we we should be concerned with one child being killed and there's hundreds in Ukraine we should do something here and in Ukraine we should try to stop it somehow now you you were born in Ukraine where were you born what what city I was born in Kramatorsk and that's a city close to Donbass area it's an eastern Ukraine it's almost in the heart of the Donbass area right now that Russians are trying to take has that city been taken or is it still part of Ukraine or what's the status it's still part of Ukraine Ukrainian forces are holding it strong there but like I said Ukraine needs more weapons to be able to push Russians back and to be able to defend all the Ukrainian cities that are occupied right now what what what about your family you've said you mentioned your family in your article and and while we were talking where are they how are they doing my family was in Kramatorsk when this all began and they woke up through the bombing because one of the airports that Russia started the the war was one of the airports is in Kramatorsk so my parents woke up to five in the morning to the bombing and then they left the town the city they went to some relatives they're still in eastern Ukraine they're safe for now but honestly nobody's safe right now in Ukraine so I'm not sure I just go to bed and wake up praying they're going to be okay but are you able to talk to them or are you communicate how do you communicate I talk to them for the Viber it's similar to Skype um so we talk daily and for a few hours at a time sometimes they they need to have some distraction because it's very hard for them to live the way they do first months were it was terrible just just waiting and it's not easier now knowing that my town may be taken and the way we saw what Russians do these days to the to every center villages cities they don't care they they don't care if it has any military base and on they're just destroying everything and everybody so my parents are very worried because they want to go back home at some point and I hope they will have home to go back to when you do you still ask them how how are you I mean and how do they answer when you ask them I mean is that something that you don't ask anymore I ask them every day because my mom actually just recently went back to Kramatorsk she was so homesick that she went back home because she just she's a guest at somebody else's house right now and she just couldn't take it she went back there and um she lost power she lost water gas she was it was terrible I told her you need to get out because I was nearly having nervous breakdown just knowing that she's there because I just I can't imagine living if something were to happen to her while she's there and I'm here so it's just it's terrible you know that's very interesting you have it sounds like she is very brave to go back there and and you have a lot of anxiety and you're not there and it's hard to uh you know for you it may be even harder for you being away than for your mom being right there yeah it's been very hard I I have been telling my husband I have like survivors guilt or something because I'm not there I just like my heart that like I want to go there and he keeps telling me you have children here and knowing that my mom is there knowing that my family is in Ukraine and if anything were to happen to them I just feel like I want to just get out and go like no pack you know nothing just just go now you know one thing I I have heard and that is that even though there's a border between Ukraine and Russia a lot of family are on both sides of the border do you have any family in Russia everyone has a lot of family and friends in Russia including me my family we have lots of relatives who uh lived there since I don't know since birth and I have um I actually have an uncle who moved there in 2014 and um it's it's been hard to talk to those relatives I personally don't talk to them my dad has been very close to them all his life and uh that's his brother who is now living in Russia and it's been very hard to talk to those family members because they just they don't believe anything we tell them so I mean what what is the difference of opinion what what what do you tell them that they don't believe and what do they think uh is the truth honestly in the beginning I kept asking because I felt like it would make a difference if we try to convince them if we try to deliver a message to them and tell them that this is what's happening we don't have special first months we don't have special military operation Russia actually attacked us and they're killing everybody not just soldiers they're killing everybody and they didn't believe us and my dad he had his own goal to convince them as a voice still didn't work three months in and I don't know if he still talks to them but they my uncle pretty much called my grandma a Nazi and he was her favorite son and he lived in Ukraine for 45 years of his life that's how strong the propaganda is in Russia that family turned on family wow that's uh I mean that that so the the press in Russia are the news in Russia is basically that Ukraine is at fault and should be uh changed from its current status into something else I guess is what is what is being said in in Russia and the people in Russia believe that yeah they they believe that Ukraine they believe what they're told and there is a there is a joke in a way going around that if you put anywhere to give Russian people just dirt let's call it dirt to eat and call it jam they would eat it and argue whether it's strawberry or cherry so they just they will believe whatever is told to them and no matter what we tell them they don't believe us leaving in it right now seeing people dies having it's just awful when neighbors have to bury neighbors just where they are just to have them have peace and it's awful and and Russians they don't believe it yeah and I'm not sure what needs to be done to change that in the in the in your article at the end you say pray for Ukraine but that let me ask you I mean it doesn't sound like that's enough is that enough praying for Ukraine is important because if you're praying for Ukraine you remember that Ukraine is uh needs your prayers and Ukraine uh is not a villain in this story but it's also not enough because Ukraine just needs more support from the leaders from those who can't give it support it needs more support from the government it needs more weapons and it needs whatever humanitarian reliefs and other things that the governments can give for one with the expert problem right now that Russia created because Russia is closing the ports in Crimea they're not allowing Ukraine export any grain that Ukraine produce and a lot of countries are going to suffer because Ukraine is a broad basket of the Europe and it produces enough food to feed over 400 million people so right now Russia is claiming they're not allowing the expert because they're trying to hurt Ukrainian economy but they're actually hurting a lot of people who are already below the the curve and they are going to starve people in Africa people there are just so many in Europe that rely on Ukrainian grain and sunflower that this is not just hurting Ukrainian politics it's it requires a humanitarian relief so other than weapons everyone needs to just act and not just talk and I get a sense from you that this is not just Ukraine and Russia this is the whole world and maybe in your article you were kind of I think saying that that this is you know people are afraid of world war three but maybe we're in world war three is that is that what you were indicating yes I did say that because I really don't like when people say that this is just a conflict between two countries because if other leaders of other countries treated this conflict like their personal conflict this would have been solved already but because everyone keeps distancing them from them from this and keep saying that this is just a conflict between those two two countries that's why this is taking so long to solve because this is world war three so many countries are involved for one on general assembly in UN months ago 141 countries voted against Russia that just shows how divided the world is that those countries support Ukraine and not Russia and only four countries supported Russia so this just shows that they are already picking sides and they are already choosing Ukraine entire world is trying to solve this in a way with talks so far but it requires more than talking it requires like Ukraine has been asking for those special multiple lunch rockets and they are yet to get them I'm glad that United States approved them they give they're going to give them in a limited supply but Ukraine just needs to get what it needs to what it asked for to win this war well there there was some talk including by a former secretary of state that Ukrainians should just you cede land to Russia to achieve peace is that I mean what is the feeling within Ukraine I mean what are your thoughts is that really a realistic way to solve this matter Ukraine will not be ceding any lands because we saw this already in 2014 when Russia took Crimea and created Donetsk independent republic and logon independent drug republic they didn't stop on that they're the only way to stop them is to push them out of Ukraine completely and to show the world that Ukraine is capable of pushing them back and they are not capable of defeating us well is I mean is that a realistic strategy for Zelensky or what can he do I mean is it is it I hear you saying that this is not going to be an ongoing war and that there it sounds doubtful that there's a peaceful way to get through this I don't believe there is a peaceful way to get through this because obviously Russia doesn't care for negotiations and even them a little bit of land is not going to do anything because they're like a shark you can just give them an arm and hope to walk away you need to just push them out and keep the territory strong and Ukraine will have to always have strong army Ukraine will have to always be prepared because Russia is obviously not willing to negotiate because they already proved that when Ukraine tried to arrange humanitarian corridors to help people they kill people they kill volunteers they capture them they kill doctors they kill journalists just today it was reported that a French journalist was killed so they don't care they don't care for peace wow well I I'm glad that we had this conversation I think it's really important to continue the conversation about this matter as well as many other matters we we are part of the human race and we should continue to talk to each other as humans and bring these matters that are important in front of everyone so thank you Alona for speaking today with us I'm you know it's good to get the insight from someone born in Ukraine and to hear the information that is important and that we should continue to discuss so thank you very much aloha to you I hope I hope your family is safe and that things will resolve themselves properly aloha you can also follow us on facebook instagram twitter and linked in and donate to us at think.kawaii.com Mahalo