 All cards in it like a file folders and all kinds of things in it and like barely any response And then when I went on my own to pitch the comic book. It was like an email Who I won't call up hasbro? Who's at the licensing department to talk to what's their contact and said I was interested in making this pitch Send an email with the proposal and then mailed in some stuff With like samples of art of like what a few pages would look like and the term the terms and samples of the other stuff I published which were like these black-and-white comics and Then they responded so they were interested and then they sent back You know what the deal terms would be and just see some back-and-forth emails and you know I didn't bring up that I didn't have like a big office. There was no need to bring that up But also the next set of the books I was publishing. I wasn't pretending to be something I wasn't you were a one-person black-and-white comics self-publishing convention driving to Yeah, comics publisher indie comics guy. Yeah, I was nationally distributed, but yeah, I was still just Driving you know the consum every kind I could get to the weekends working my day a job Belgian comics on the side and and you had and how many employees did you have when you pitched zero? We had a team we had a team in place I Mean they saw I think what got them was the art like Four or five Sampled us like what the first few pages of the story would be Which I think we were we drew them, but they're pretty similar And it was Steve Curth. He's there was an artist Steve Curth. I went to The stories been told a few times before I went to my friend Tim Sealy who was another artist like trying to break in and He said I'm not good enough to do GI Joe But talked to my friend Steve was a little bit older, and then we He said cool today. I don't have any money, but I'm gonna go for this If it works out, you know, well, we'll all be involved in so that and I got I Think I I fight color design agreed to color the samples Honestly can't remember I have no idea. I might have colored this myself, but we Set those in and Yeah, that was that was what landed it. So but now what I didn't know was I'm pretty sure from what I've heard in hindsight Like you got to think again like nobody had ever done an 80s retro thing yet in comics and the people in charge all did not understand that like everyone who was like early 20s and younger was like dying for that stuff to come back and They just didn't get it and Which shocked me because in the stores I just seem like everyone freaking out over like GI Joe and Transformers and Ninja Turtles and Voltron Thundercats t-shirts and stuff back up like hot topic and things like that. So Which you had been designing some yeah for a small company. Yeah And so I got to see like this isn't just something I think this is the Prove this is this is validated now But they were just they didn't get it. It wasn't just house where a lot of people didn't get it back then but they really didn't get it and I forget there's also a little there's also a little bit of context. All right, so so we think of Transformers I'm pretty sure they They right before I contacted them that they had taken it to like Marvel To like, you know and made it maybe been a little too Combination of being a little too cocky like you're so lucky that like we're offering this back to you At the same time Marvel not getting it and be like, why would we want to do this 80s thing? I can and or right, you know, so I think I think I might have slid in just the right time So we think of this 80s nostalgia boom You know Thundercats came back with some comics in the 2000s Transformers was really big at Dreamwave GI Joe Battle of the planets some other things so Universe thank you. It's important to remember that that GI Joe was the first of these to come back and Also at the time Hasra has just come off of a couple years of Unsuccessful GI Joe no GI Joe or very small limited GI Joe releases at Toys R Us and Hasra in 2000 is really focused on Star Wars because they're between episodes one and two I forgot about that and they had just bought some Bought a license to some video games or a little video game library or a little video game company and Hasbro Was not focused on something like GI Joe so in terms of sneaking in and and here today, you know today we think in a Hasbro We're thinking of like the IP and you know the millions billions that are behind these things and how carefully they sort of choose to mark them in films And toys and the success that classified is now now today Sort of GI Joe Hasbro is a very different place to that and sort the reaction that kind of you got was very interesting in terms of like Asking for things like Stuck in a story by those character by those. Yeah, well some of the reactions Yeah, the funniest thing I always talk about is how like at first, you know So I think once they gave me the license and realized it was getting traction kind of freaked him out Because then they realized though we just gave this unknown kid like the keys to the Lamborghini and The 80s like I had this really bizarre amount of experience already with licensing because I you know just Been in just fell into that earlier and I had been self-publishing for years and so I'm like Do you have you know style guides? Like I wasn't looking for like big character Bibles I was ready to for them to receive like all of them. Give me all of the rules like here's what you can and can't do in This universe here's like the current versions We want you to use and I'm ready to think like man I hope I don't have to like, you know argue with them over which a version of this character to use and Stuff like the first person I talked to didn't know who snake eyes was Yeah, and so like there was no style guides, so I was kind of like well cool I could just I'm well because I wanted to like Put the team together pick who I wanted to really focus and bring back And then redesign them for what fit into the year, you know the year 2001 which was basically like You know everybody just kind of wanted to see that Original designs tweaked a little bit and just like made a little more badass Like they quote whatever that meant Or things like I did make this change like shipwreck. I just got him out of the old like maybe year Made it more like, you know the blue knit cap and sweater and I Sneak eyes pretty much stuck with that Second version just put the rush copy symbol on the shoulder for the first time and tweaked is like arm band and stuff a little bit Yeah, just you know, you didn't just write the opening issues You also provided some art for them. How was your how was that? What was that? What's your rating process? Yeah, so I'd always written and drawn all my own stuff or I would always work in some some collaboration with other people So I you know part of it was necessity and part of it was like I wanted to put my stamp and my vision on it and then So yeah design the characters Write the story and then but I wouldn't do the layouts to so those first few issues I don't remember how many issues it was but I did the layouts before I handed it over to Steve Kurt and then you know from there You know, he would do everything and he designed a couple of the characters, too Over time and then I think as time went on it just now we were running and It was more than just his show for that and then the success of the first issue was a great surprise Or was it how was that? So that was like that was so every single relationship was kind of a weird dynamic that has no thing was weird First they didn't understand why anyone would care and then when they realized everyone cared a lot then they freaked out that we Had the license But then we were selling really well, you know and so but then they were also like they didn't understand the comics markets They felt like a hundred thousand copies sold out with a reprint of another thirty thousand copies sold out with a reprint of another collection They thought that was like kind of bad Which was at the time was fantastic for comic sales So there was that and then like image comics I signed with them And I think they weren't really used to doing License properties like that and I you know, I mean I just grew up idolizing those guys everything So I was thrilled to be there But they didn't even kind of threw off the management there at the time like oh man Because they didn't get it either there was like one guy image that really I think understood. This is gonna be big But the main the main management there was like what is happening? And they ended up putting it on the preview to the cover of the diamond retailer catalog and We had pre-orders of like seventy thousand copies and I pushed image to go ahead and print a hundred thousand So we would make sure we had enough in stock which they might have thought was risky Yeah, they did not do that and then I had to argue like well, that's my but you know They just take their fleck fee. That's the way that company works and it's like well be my loss anyway if I'm wrong When you're printing seventy thousand it doesn't cost much of anything more to print another thirty thousand So they're like, okay fine and then yeah, so then we were ready to go and the and then that was September 11th, 2001 the book was coming out September 12th So we did have crazy hype We had people like in a fervor on the message boards wizard magazine Which was like the Rolling Stone magazine of the of the era was covering it I mean, it was it was ready. It was pumped set up to be this big hit and then but just the craziest timing and 9-11 happens and so the It's weird like, you know, it's kind of silly to say that that didn't have an effect on some of the sales But it was like people were already like amped up. I think it was just changed the vibe The next day when people came in there and there's this big J. Scott Campbell American flag cover so Yeah, but that That's how it all the whole thing launched all right, so you you're writing a book and But you also own this company So I'm shifting gears a little bit here not just in that first six months or year, but over the over the Years with the Joe license. Can you talk about? Run owning and running a business you had employees and freelancers. Yeah Well, I started well my first comic book in pretty much the labyrinth studios And 1996-97-89-2000 then no one could pronounce or spell labyrinth So I was like, I got a change to something else. I was working with this like, you know apparel company I was like, I'm gonna make like something that just sounds cool Doesn't mean anything. It could be a streetwear line. It could be my art studio comic studio a band Even though I don't play music, but it could be anything. That's so I came up with devil's do and then I started devil's do studios doing freelance and Was planning like I'm just gonna I've got enough freelance not to quit my job I'm just gonna build this up keep publishing my comics and five years from now. I'll probably have enough Stuff built up and then decided to make the shot for the license and that worked so all of a sudden, you know That new brand name just suddenly had I published one book couldn't is placed Which was like a black and white book that came out just as devils do and then image I mean that the deal was already done ready to go for g.i. Joe. So like devils who was sort of From from the outside perspective appears to have been born alongside g.i. Joe and I Never knew I don't know what it's like. I never knew anything other though than like Comics is a business like comic books is a commercial art And I just through lack of patience probably as a teenager Since I was like 14 was writing letters publishers and trying to figure out how do you know? I was trying to get hired long before I was qualified and then You know right around the time I was starting to get good enough to maybe get hired I ended up just self-publishing and then you know just kind of never escaped yourself So then started having to add employees once you got joked up okay actual employees in an office So though it's a big jump to go from just you to renting an office and having employees It sounds like there's there's a trajectory that was already there. You were already a business person already Like how could I deal with like invoices and purchase orders and understanding that part of it and dealing with the printers? but yeah, not not like managing people and having staff and all that so that was like Typical entrepreneurs think of you know, okay, work your ass off and do everything until you can start hiring people and and started with a little office like an eight by eight closet and then took over Another like an actual bigger room and then took over another room in this little building above a 7-eleven in Chicago and then I think within a year after that though. We had Half a dozen employees. I think at our peak. We were 12 employees with like 50 or 60 contractors at any given time And conventions yeah, so you travel and a lot of a lot of conventions a lot of So yeah at the peak craziness is when I had to like dial it back Just otherwise, you know, you realize you're human and you can't do this. I was in mid 20s I've already been running the company for a few couple years. I'm like, you know, we're writing four or five books a month still designing and doing sketches and drawings and stuff and and managing like all these employees who all have their own dynamic and Dealing with yeah, just dealing with everything so And sort of getting into the detail of the comics a little bit and given where we are with assembly required with our dreadnought Theme the book itself sort of started off with a bang. We've been quite a bit about focus there You introduced the character Zartan's daughter into the into the mythos and you also Have classified mini-series, so can you talk a little bit about you know the dreadnought scene in your devil's view universe and kind of your thoughts and Yeah, Dreadnoughts were always just fun I always thought a little bit of story like my uncle's like a total biker and I'd seen I'd seen in some like like biker motorcycle club like You know culture growing like as a you know in high school and stuff I've started to like notice all that and I thought it'd be fun I thought it was since we're making the story a little more like it could be a little older You know, it wasn't just being rid for kids like I could throw some more of this actual like biker Vibe in here, but it's still got to be dreadnoughts still got to be there over the top Madden axe type characters, you know and Just enjoy it. I mean all the villains are always fun to write in anything so But it was kind of like a little precursor like sons of anarchy wasn't out yet, you know, so it was like That you know what dreadnoughts would really be like But I was always fun to think of like Cobra's this network, you know, you've got this Cobra commander guy who's got this like subversive domestic Terrorism operation and they partners with like a major arms dealer from overseas If then he partners with like a domestic Viking and I was just like well We were picking up, you know in the Marvel continuity Several years after the you know team had been disbanded and a corporate renters back I was like, well, what are the dreadnoughts been doing this whole time? It's our chance doesn't just stop You know running running things so he's built it up and now there's national chapters And that would like that's I guess that was the biggest thing I do with dreadnoughts is make them a officially a nationwide gang With I always envisioned they would just have chapters in every major city So now they really are their own force and so one they could give Cobra a run for their money Or Cobra Commander partners back up with them. It's a really big concern for G.I. Joe and the powers to be And I think I think you're the only writer who's ever written a dreadnought series in comics. That's hardly leech With beautiful covers by Clement Swell who also went on to do very interesting things You had a good track record of getting on some very interesting talent Can you tell us about that book and and what what it was that that brought you back to writing a G.I. Joe book after a very long time away as the head honcho Mark's referring to dreadnoughts to classified so we had started doing these declassified mini series So where was it basically go back and get to like Really dig into the origin if it had never been totally explained or slightly update things You know like so that we did the snake eyes to classified G.I. Joe to classified Yeah, Brandon Jarwa did and did the snake eyes one and then Larry Hama actually did the G.I. Joe to classified Got to expand on his origin story for them more. So We've got a lot of sheets out these now toy again. Yeah. Yeah, and then we had a Yeah, so anyway, I waited a great fun scarlet one shot by Phil Noto And then I got to do yeah, I just dreadnoughts was one of the obvious ones to do And I don't remember if I was just like yeah, I want to do that one or if one of the editors came back and asked me but I Just thought it was a fun challenge to because our tan had the most conflicting Backstory of any character toy car the comic said a couple different conflicting things The cartoon had its whole thing. There was the oh like Well in the comics there was like the chameleon DNA references for his disguise abilities And then there was also the but then there was still holograms and then the cartoon It was like masks But he also like for a split second was affected by the Sun and then they just kind of stuck worrying about that And then there is gotta sell that toy the fuck The file card mentioned all this stuff. It was never really far it off later So I thought how do I make all that work? And that's I think that is my one of my strong suits For my faults. That's one of my strong suits as a writer is Putting pieces together and making them work and like give it being given a set of toys and making them all fit together and So yeah, I think I pulled it off But it ended up being like the most difficult approval thing I've ever done with Hasbro Not just by coincidence of like regime changes and and who the all of a sudden like here I'm writing the most You know morally gray character in the Joe universe and yet All of a sudden getting resistance like now for their first time They've ever said to us like well the good guys need to be good the bad guys need to be bad and like you know Why does our team have to have this like messed up childhood that maybe to motivate him? Can he just be a bad guy and like it's his origin story and like this is you know, so We managed to still get it out And hopefully I think so the people still like it I think I love it That's probably the best one. Yeah, absolutely love that story Can you talk about Rating stories of different lengths and the the trade paperback packaging and markets when when Devils do had GI Joe That then you'd collect issues And and you were selling the comics, but you were also then selling the collections Yeah, because the graphic novel business is so so being now and it's starting to get big Yeah, it's like that was like break when all the bookstores all of a sudden mid-2000s Like a switch flipped and all of a sudden librarians all won in comics and the school libraries were like Hey, and kids seem to be reading comics more and it's getting kids to read and and then Comics became like the graphic novels were the fastest growing Component of all of publishing in every bookstore and that's is when we had the I think it's also because that's when we had the Explosion of like borders and parts of noble and just being built everywhere And they were being popping up and then manga comes in Tokyo pop revolutionizes manga in the United States So they wanted they just won the graphic novels So it had always been you know done where you just after a certain amount of issues you collect them into a tree paperback And then so I think I think that's but that with the dreadlocks declassified They were 48 page books because we knew we could get them out and have a higher price point then You know within three months get them all out and then boom you've got you know a nice thick trade paperback Collection so the G.I. Joe trade paperbacks never really sold like crazy though. They're always just like enough to keep like they always were way more of a Lobby comic periodical market like the fans that wanted it wanted it now I Think now you know having it binge bingeable is probably Something like Okay, now people on the bus collections we were we were really I think we're credited as some of the earliest omnibus Like pioneers back then really that big Voltron book Voltron G.I. Joe versus Transformers Forgotten realms And then and then World War three I think was forced on you Because they has very set that you weren't allowed to to collect them Until the very end. That's right. Yeah Yeah, that sounds right And it might be it might feel risky to do a book collecting 12 issues if the market has been used to Books collecting four or six at a time. I don't think we were nervous about that one though Because the weed that was story was so good. I knew it was like a big epic. Yeah That was I felt more like a film one. That's one. You're crazy like that was Mark Powers. It's such a great job with that Okay, it's 2023 real America hero is in its 41st year and for Sorry everyone and for over five years you were in charge of one Major component of G.I. Joe So this is a broad question Can you reflect on sort of what G.I. Joe is or where G.I. Joe is? now compared to where it's been Or where you maybe see it going That's a really good hard to answer question like I mean, there's no question like back then it was it it was Part of the like just the fabric of pop culture With you know at least with like the younger male demographic in the United States It was it was just massive and then And then we I you know, I think I we can take credit for Truly giving it the biggest boost I've ever had since that first round since that first wave that was a little like hit and miss every time until Those comics came along and and by default that catapulting or catalyzing a whole other 80s retro boom in the comic world at the time that the comic book market was becoming so important to wire Pop culture and the film and entertainment. I think we really Push did we brought a lot of people back on comic shops that kept the state did read other things But like since that I mean The comics after us mean they just kind of kept going, you know, I don't think that anything major amazing Happened because by then and I wouldn't that's the like dis on them. That's just It kind of needed it was it we'd already did for seven years So anything after a while needs to kind of like take a breather and have a big like something that Something to have a big room to come back and I was supposed to be those movies and that didn't work so there now it's like it's in this, you know, but I Think it's in a delicate time where like is it gonna have a resurgence Or is it just gonna like be its own thing, you know from its own older previous era? So, you know Now I mean now we'll see what happens with the stuff that Stuff is, you know Kirkman's doing and all that. I mean if anybody has the the clout in the entertainment space to bring it back and who Has the track record or you know being talented and creative enough to do it I mean, it's it's definitely that guy So we'll see I mean, I have no idea what's going on there. So I mean, that all looks really fun the new stuff on Larry's book that are looks incredible It's an interesting dynamic where we are in 2023 with the new skybound relaunch just on the horizon versus 2001 versus, you know, it's an established approach that probably trying to get people in for that energy that they experienced in the 80s for the audience in probably their early 20s Same audience now being a little bit, you know I think what it was always been such a challenge with that is that You need you can't Just to bring in new people like if you had to only bring in new people with any very difficult, you know You have but it definitely it doesn't work anymore It's not strong enough to just bring in the previous crowd That's they that's not enough to support it either. It has to be you have to do both You have to really give it the fan service To generate excitement with all us old heads But there's got to be some new way and I just kind of think there's been so much of a gap since it was like a big like fervor there needs to be sort of a Break in like, okay, this is what it was and here's the new way and I don't know I've got some ideas. I don't really want to just give out on how I would handle that But unless someone wants to have me do it But I think yeah, I mean it's right now, it's you know, it's Just kind of hanging out. It's kind of where I feel like it's kind of like when people were keeping Star Wars alive You know in between that long gap between the movies And when it was just like a dark horse comic and you know, there was like a small dedicated Like fan base having conventions and stuff And we talked a little bit about some of that that relationship with Hasbro being a bit like Like And maybe a bit more Problematic at times and then maybe quite understanding that the property That I get great quote about your use of baroness and Destro Do you remember that? Oh, yeah, just literally somebody thought I was like Adding like a pimp and a dominatrix into the story It's a profit director Do you have some involvement with Hasbro in a more creative way that I had this story from talking to Chris lie who was the artist on our recipe card you show down about him being an intern at devil's chew And one Friday Friday night you You know working a late you can't do it said Hasbro has asked us to do some designs for this thing called signal six. Can you Draw me some things and we you know, back some back out to them. Can you Remember that um, I don't even remember that I remember I was doing signal six. I remember him doing them Yeah, we were uh Yeah, I had a side business for a long time where we just started, you know providing extra service for for Hasbro for all kinds of companies But they you know, that was just like to this obvious connection. So we did a bunch of art for Um, I had somebody else managing this stuff at that point, but like We we provided art for a bunch of gi joe trading cards at wizards of the coast did We did a lot of like some toy design turnaround stuff Chris Lee did the Sigma six A lot of those. Yeah. Yeah And they they would also coach comic talent, you know, just the toy designers would see the comics And be like, who was that artist and they would just call the artist directly And that's how like clement so they got, you know, did like the renegades And uh, you know, I'm sure a bunch of other artists I might have been aware of What that that side business What was the name of that side business? It was just devil's do creative Okay, that's why I called it and eventually I partnered with somebody else And it was supposed to be expanded Uh called a kanoichi, but then it just ended up being like at the end of the day and even after I ended up leaving that company They Really were still just doing Hasbro and toy stuff. It never became like the expanded agency It was supposed to be so I should have just kept it as it was originally if any of you have the the box set of the whole Sunbow dvd All the episodes on dvd. It's like the two thick plastic clam shells inside The sleeve on the back it says package design kanoichi. So that's like an example of what that later completed Um When is our who's who's representing the con? When's our end time? Well, I know there's another panel at two o'clock. So we're uh, we've got we've got time for audience questions anyone like to David um I would like to know a little bit more about the relationship between Doubles doing Hasbro because there's been a lot of disperse Rumors about that relationship. I've spoken with Darrell decrees. I've spoken with you There's different levels that you've described to me Can you just explain to the audience these different levels of Hasbro that you had to Deal with in the handling of certain aspects of the property with you With your relationship, um, so you had Lights the licensing department, which is that's who we technically were interacting with so they Everyone that like if you made, you know, my little pony, you know Erasers you're gonna go through the licensing department But um, so which is kind of funny when you think about that is like comics Are you're literally creating more fiction and expanding the the fantasy of a massive property So it's we you know, it's it's uh, I don't even know if they do it that way anymore Because this is they didn't really think about comics as much back then and you know, uh, so Yeah, there was licensing and then within licensing there'd be like, you know, the person who's just checking The basic stuff like make sure there's no like curse words in here or too much You know someone's faces and get blown off like graphically or something and and then There'd be kind of like an art director The person's kind of looking over that too within that department But then it would also go to like the toy department like the branding and stuff and um So then you'd have someone from the actual joe brand Who's in charge of everything joe? like looking at it Being making sure they were cool with it and then they would go to legal In that legal apartment and they would just look forward to you know Lawyer it up Make sure that names are okay. Yeah, they're the ones that make sure really make sure nothing And then uh Every now and then Well, if there's any kind of press or anything like that then it would go to the PR department and then You know when it like once every six months or something one of the higher higher higher ups looks at it And either is like this is great or gets mad about something, you know And that's that's just any any licensing situation of the big company is like that so You you know It's and it's usually the general flow is in the beginning It's a real tedious pain in the ass because Everyone's looking at it. Everyone's making sure, you know, they get their stamp on it and and that you know That's all also it's just it's they're all paying extra attention And then once you get like past the first few issues Then it's just a lot easier and then we have a major events going to happen And you'll notice like, you know, all of a sudden people are all starting to comment more and you know Actually, I still this is a quote directly ripped off from Larry. He's like Once you prove that, you know, it's successful when they don't care about it You make it successful, then they'll come and tell you how to do it, right? Other questions from the audience So I was probably in the group that found your house much later But I was just curious because I know I've spoken to Larry before about his military influence as being on active duty And I was just curious because he wrote some really great stories that we'll learn with Game shot in the back and how we like for a long time Just how he became like a special service like did you have any military influences you got to have You're writing the book or Um, I uh, I was overseeing those stories, but I wasn't directly writing those but still No, I never I never served. I did my step that I was living there before I grew up on uh, Like page manner and write Patterson Air Force Base for a while and I was in Fort Meade, Maryland for a while So I got like enough of like the kind of like the culture Um, but like that's why I always made sure to have like a we had military consultants on there and uh, you know Definitely, um Never had any like the super technical military level of detail that Larry puts in those More of the I guess more of the fantasy action side of it, you know, but yeah, that's That's about my level of experience And now it's made it So much easier now to write those kind of stories because you're just it's so much easier to search for that information that you're missing it Um, but yeah Anybody else Want to say thank you. You're awesome. Uh, I'm going to get in Reading all the press and all that of it or came out Things excited and seeing the wizard and all that I got the first issue first week And I bought every single issue brand new as soon as it came out, but uh, um Conquer and Xenia and all that can you talk about that like how to hasbro accept him and how to pitch him In characters. Oh, I didn't have to pitch him at all. Uh, he's talking about Xania and Kamikura and like characters that I created That was like the very first issue That's that's back when like I don't even think they I don't even know if they knew that I created those characters You know Sometimes I wonder if they still do So yeah, there was no pitching of that at all. So as Xenio, I mean, what made you decide that Zartan should have a daughter. I mean was there just um, I think it was just me thinking like, okay, it's been like It's been several years since the characters are supposed to have been gone So what's what's changed in the span of time? so and it Just was the obvious one thing to have So it's changed the dynamic with with that and an excuse to have a pool like like punk rock pearl in there running around And uh, probably also just to keep adding like a little more female characters into it as well I mean, G.I. Joe was always way ahead of its time And having a great like diverse cast like I think it kind of blows away Was anything from, you know previous era so Yeah, and then Kamikura was just really Kamikura was one of those things like how Boba Fett was kind of an afterthought I think like I just wanted I thought it'd be cool if snake eyes graduated and being like I'm like now he's silent master And it's like hard master and self master. He's silent master Well, he needs like an apprentice to kind of like is there it has, you know, a little isolated, you know, temple or whatever and And that was the idea for Kamikura and I thought well, who would that be? Oh man, what if it was the kid that wrote the letter to him, you know What if it was Wade Collins and and that was pretty much it That was that and I wanted to like Make him a ninja, but give him a little more of like the military colors and you know To get away from them because I knew I was adding another ninja And I didn't want to give any indications of being like ninja force Doing the talk about never don't go full ninja Yeah, can I ask a very specific question? So it's you know in your role as as as publishing things you can Literally sort of you know approach Our heroes and asked them to to to work with you and you brought Larry to the to the fold But an interesting one was having Michael golden. I think we get the very last Cover to the The final issue of marriage is elite. You're able to talk to to that experience of bringing someone like Michael golden. Yeah, only because you're asked Yeah, I mean Michael We just always wanted Michael golden to do a cover. I mean that that was like an awesome get and then It was he did this like Like triple gatefold cover, you know, we like he folded it out and But that was when the approvals were getting really difficult. So they made us take out like he had to take out guns Had to like change the angle where the guns were pointing so With that that was one of those like oh really sorry you know So there's a there's another version of that out there if there's a scan anywhere or something, you know Of like what the what the original cover looked like Our artists don't like it when the licensing company tells them to make stuff less interesting David World War three, I thought was a very ambitious story For your last year, I guess of publishing gi Joe I felt they really didn't Deliver on what it was advertised as this World war of the entire planet that cobra had taken over all of earth And it was only done into all issues. I felt that maybe there was so many other stories in there And now rising sun has kind of done a lot of uh fill in stuff with world war three What was the uh process of that and why I Didn't only have 12 issues. Why could it had other stuff of a mini series to tell them where where snow job was where this guy was What's going on here? there was More like that was when we knew the licenses were going to end. Yeah, so hasbro I think we had to push them to let us do that many issues Because we kind of had to say like hey you've already approved They basically approved the storyline and then said well my license is going to be over So it's like well you guys approved it and allowed an approved marketing and approved advertising to your fans for this story, so They agreed to let it run its course As like a maxi series And then got to be done So a lot of stuff I I can't say I have remember it all like what the fans were beyond that because all I remember is You know, we had to wrap it up And like during that process you felt really rushed. Yeah, like we I mean we were gonna I know we wanted to kill cobra commander. I was because like hey, it's the end like you're gonna totally retcon this stuff anyway So and they're like no you can't kill them. That's too violent or whatever. So that's why he ends up in like a spoiler alert He ends up in like a water prison or something And uh and all that so Yeah, that's that's it Fun business answer Maybe we'll do one more question from the audience and I think I've got the wrap-up question Anyone else in the audience got a question for Josh, but like he will he will If you're feeling shy, of course, he'll be at the answer is see We'll be in the other room Selling things If there's no more, that's just going to segue to my final question. So anyone Okay Well, I think you had brought up 9-11 happening right at the same time that you were publishing first issue. Was there Any any part of that in in training training to integrate world events into What writing about No, that was like the opposite that then I definitely couldn't do stuff like like I really had wanted to like play up that Like because I had co-recommended and gone For several years. I was like he's traveling the world using his charisma On all these different, you know world leaders and terrorist groups and everything else And now he's back and he's you know, we reveal he's formed a lot of these alliances And it's going to be terrifying like what he might be able to do now And then I was like, no Not going to do that that was already going to be a battle with Hasbro anyway Like I you know, I I mean I wasn't going to try to make it to too dark and edgy But that even styled it back more so Josh, what are you working on now? What have you been working on? Yeah, currently I have a handful of different projects going on I've just the 15th anniversary of mercy sparks, which is my like supernatural action Horror comedy, you know, just fun book That's got two omnibus collections. It's in the developmental MGM right now And we've got I just finished a new issue of that. I'm drawing the book for the first time after writing it developing characters for 15 years Me and mark powers who wrote world war three and used to edit the joe books We have a side project called the encoded. We just did a hardcover collection for that That's got some intentional fun homages to some like winks and nods to joe and transformers kind of stuff But it's really more like straightforward serious sci-fi story about the year 2055 we have I had this like fantasy alternate history ancient almanus kind of a serious arc world Which is like ancient aliens, but it's not about no aliens. It's the ancient stuff and all the mysteries, you know behind all that And yeah, I'm working on some other top secret things right now as well Working with some like music web three group, which has been fun doing some like Fun cartoony stuff about these skull characters called wicked craniums and we have like a live-action music video tied into it That's been really fun Yeah, so doubles do studios is Is the website to go to I'm over there hanging out And Yeah Sign up the email list because I will I think I will have some stuff coming out that will be exciting for this crowd of specifically sometime in the near future as well And listen to this podcast Yeah, so if you like hearing people talk about comics really getting into the weeds and talking to comic creators Doing a deep dive into the devil's helping us remember all the things we forgot we did Dropping serious member berries And yeah, so we're in we've been doing a deep dive read through we're sort In the middle of the america's elite era We're going to cover we've been covering all of the larry hammer era issues and Yeah, so kind of deal being episode about 301 when that drops So yeah, follow us on with the socials or head on over to talking joe.co.uk Which is the website to find out more. I've got Business cards, which I'm calling miniature art prints Which have got like that up on the on the back So if you if you've not bought one of those Just yeah, I've been over it. I'll give that hands It's been fun listening to these interviews with like people that worked with with me or for me like You know way back then too just hearing one It's funny because you hear where you're like you're well, you're something isn't you're like You just hear from their perspective And it's like it's just it's just fun to hear what oh, oh, what I was focusing on this the eight hours a day and Four hours of your day. We're just only doing that. So it's just interesting to see And it's funny too when you're like you wouldn't hear like someone's completely remembering something backwards Not the order that happened in and then I'm like, oh god, what have I said that it's like backwards Well, you think but it's fun that's fun because you listen to those and you like kind of corroborate everything It's like listen into a Larry Haman interview followed by a Jim Shooter interview Head to Josh's table where he's Sketching and signing and selling books Sign up for his stuff and thank you, Josh Bullock