 Hi everybody, we're back. This is Dave Vellante of wikibon.org and this is silicon angle dot TV's continuous coverage of sapphire now And we're here. This is the third year. We've been at sapphire and We're here with Jeff Kelly who is also with wikibon. He's wikibons big data analyst Jeff Thanks for popping in here for a minute. John Furrier had to go quickly to another meeting He'll be back shortly and so Jeff let's talk a little bit about SAP and you know the big the big story there tech technology wise is Hannah you've been covering that You know, what's your angle on on SAP and big data? Well, they've had some contradictory stories over the last year about big data even embracing the term But I think you know they're in a position where they are a little bit more focused on delivering What you might call more practical fast data to their customer base, which is not necessarily a bad bad choice But they've also got the side base portfolio, which we didn't hear too much about side base from a data warehousing perspective It's sapphire this last year. I'm suspecting we will this year I've already talked to a couple side base customers using side base IQ their columnar scale out data warehouse for a pretty large Analytic job, so I think we're gonna hear more about that. I hope we hear more about that this week So I know it's nuanced, but you know is is Hannah in your opinion, you know part of the big data movement? I Think I think it qualifies in some circumstances Okay, so what circumstances does it does it well, I mean my definition of big data I look at it a couple different ways. There's the technology and we all heard the different definitions data That's too big or too fast or too many types of structured Elements to process with normal relational technology non-traditional non-traditional red so but the other way to look at is big data as a mindset that is Where the old way of doing analytics and bi was you model the warehouse took months maybe years to model a warehouse ask the questions Beforehand the questions you knew you're gonna ask model the data warehouse to answer those questions and then kind of massage the data and deliver the reports To me big data is a mindset that says no, we're not gonna do that. We're gonna take the data as it comes We're going to take it where wherever it leads us. We're gonna go we're gonna ask questions in an ad hoc fashion We're gonna explore the data. We're gonna look to develop new lines of business new types of ways to the deliver Services to customers for example, so it's a kind of a flipping into the traditional bi on its head So if you look at it from that kind of that angle SAP HANA can be used in that manner It delivered through the right types of applications. What's intriguing to me in the big data context about Systems like HANA and in-memory databases, you know generally and how to specifically is that And I want to your feedback on this don't you see the possibility that all these Devices and machines and all these sources that are generating all this big data could be a direct input to operational systems where HANA is the underpinning of those systems and To enable new types of analytics to be done in near real-time or if not real-time sure Well, I mean, you know when HANA was released. We heard a lot about being you know both both to support transactional and So if you think about it in In if it's used to its fullest in both cases kind of create a full loop where You do you use it to support transactions reform the analytics and then loop those Analytics back into the operational side of the equation. We don't see a lot of people doing that yet It's mostly still focused on analytics at this point not supporting transactional Systems, but yeah, I mean certainly, you know, we talked to you of course our own David lawyers talked a lot about kind of this type of model being Developed going forward with the technology and some other technologies. So it's a capability or I should say a possibility But I don't see a lot of people doing that. Okay, so what are you looking for at this event? Specifically in terms of it. What does SAP have to do at this event specifically to be successful with its HANA messaging? Well, I would Couple things so for the HANA messaging in particular We need to see some proof points. We need to see some Customers and some real success stories. They should be out there. They did 160 million euro business on a business last year Presumably that's growing it even faster right now So they've done a lot of business that means there should be a fair number of successful deployments that we Should see here this week if we see that You know turning last year was a lot about vision what HANA can do for you in the future this year's got to be about Here's what people are doing without it today. So you're talking about 160 million euro So a couple hundred million plus in and revenue for the year, right? Where do you see that number going this year? Will it double triple quadruple? I don't know It's gonna quadruple, but I certainly see it. I think doubling is something they could do. I think it's possible It depends. I'd like to see a little bit more insight into the kind of demographics around who's at the top that it's so far I'm imagining it's going, you know, it's mostly Obviously, it's mainly SAP customers to begin with it's not necessarily going out and finding new business to degree perhaps But so it'll be interesting to see how much of they they've kind of moved SAP HANA into their existing customer base That says it's a billion dollar business within three or four years two or two and a half three It certainly could be I mean this is all about enabling front-line workers to do ad hoc Quick analytics to make better business decisions and that's kind of been what we've been we've been hearing about that for years Self-service BI was called a few years ago and it's that term still used occasionally So, you know, we've been waiting for this for a long time and frankly SAP business objects promise to deliver this a few years ago And to a degree they did but you know, I think we're still waiting SAP with business objects promise to deliver You know BI for the masses But if you look at the numbers and most and given organization you really know more than 20 or 30 percent of the organization is using So certainly not pervasive yet. Well, and of course the success factors acquisition is now success factors does have self-service But it's a very very narrow. I don't know if you follow the you know, the HR market, but but it's a very narrow Segment of that market particularly around talent management and acquisition or merely man talent management versus sort of the core HR, right? Right benefits how many vacation days I have and things like that. It's more My understanding of success factors and you know, you may know better than I is it's really around Cultivating talent, you know rating people and making sure that their their compensation is aligned really with that Kind of identifying and keeping employees on the right career track Rewarding them when Now SAP also has core HR in its its main enterprise application suite, but That my understanding is that's really not self-service. It's kind of right. Well generation HR meets sass with success factors, right? So Yeah, whereas you know look at something like people soft was more core HR All right sort of competitive with SAP Oracle buys people soft and obviously has that but now you see some companies like success factors and Workday and now supposedly workday is is people soft plus success factors, you know, we'll see if in fact That's the case. They're going to really explode with their IPO in the fall Well, you know Yeah, so Okay, so we're here at sapphire. We're here with Jeff Kelly who's Wikibon's big data analyst So you you put out a report a few months ago now. It was about four or five months ago It was a February you put out the big data report You were the first first instill to this day only I think to quantify the market share Figures around big data, right? I know as I noticed in the wiki that you've made several changes. I mean, that's sort of was the intent put it out there I get some feedback Miss some things kind of miss. I know we miss net app by a mile We had them virtually having no big data revenue turns out They've done deals that were many many times the larger single deals larger than the big data revenue that we had initially estimated Okay, so there's a couple of rounding errors in there, but you know it corrected those I think I think you've made some adjustments to Hannah as well. I think you did you underestimate? SAP's big data. Yeah, we did. I think I think when we when we initially We're doing the research around that report. We didn't Really think Hannah fit the definition of big data for a number of reasons But mainly because it's you know, it's a structured Basically optimized for structured data not the multi structured data It was being used in somewhat traditional means it really hadn't been we hadn't seen a lot of use cases Or I should say customer success stories despite all the revenue We've been hearing about so, you know, we thought it we kind of thought of it as okay It's best to be basically SAP applications. They're running faster. Great, but that's not what we think of when we think of big data You know after meeting with SAP Talk with them a little bit about getting their perspective on how they see big data, you know, they're gonna I think you're gonna hear this week if they tell the story They kind of told me and and John earlier this year. They've got pretty good big data story if they would tell it correctly, but You know, it's in terms of was is on a big data as I explained we think it is now But initially we didn't really we look at it as more of a traditional Tool to support traditional types of work. Well, it's cool technology I said at the top of the show that SAP customers are starving for cool technology, right? I mean, you know Let's face it supply chain as a technology Trend is not that enticing they a cloud yet. I mean, you know, essentially the success success factors acquisition I see as a as a as a cloud play Yeah, you know, right you got Hannah, which is you know, also his pet project, which is similar that guy's obviously a visionaries He's clearly built a tremendously successful company. So there's some cool stuff going on there The cybase acquisition when I first heard about a cybase. I haven't thought about cybase in forever Turns out they're actually a leader in mobile and instant messaging. So, you know, that's an interesting play But can they pull all these pieces together? That's the 64 million dollar question. I you know, I think they certainly have The ability to do it. I think they have to keep Keep focus. I think they need to do, you know, they need to explain their message, especially around big data in a more compelling way, you know, can they do it? Potentially, I mean, there's a lot going on at this company right now It's all about mobile, but it's also about big data. It's about analytics, but it's about cloud So there's a lot going on right now. I think if they focus and Take incremental steps, it's something they can pull off, but it's not gonna be an easy job I mean, isn't it the fact that I mean the predominance of their revenue today is the supply chain business? It's the ERP. It's the maintenance on that business. I mean, you know, like a lot of large companies I would say the same thing with EMC. I mean EMC's, you know, they're talking about and big data But they're living off of you know, Symmetrics and and VNX revenues and the maintenance and services around them The key is can you acquire these assets, you know invent some but acquire them integrate them where necessary It's not always necessary and then and then move the market forward You know Oracle's another one, you know that you're seeing, you know, big projects around integration and making a lot of noise And you know, this son acquisition, but you know the core of Oracle's business is still that you know core database and the maintenance around that Let's back to SAP. I mean, are you seeing evidence that they actually are moving the needle in that direction? A couple hundred million plus in and HANA revenues. That's an indication, you know, other others Well, like I said, I haven't seen a lot of customer success stories, which I'm looking for this week I mean, I think I totally agree with you. I mean their business is think SAP think ERP And that's kind of that's their core business. Now, the good news is that HANA is kind of it's kind of a technology that can help them both Even further that business and continue it and build a new line of business around some of these more advanced analytic functions and applications So I'm not seeing a lot yet. I'm expecting to see some of that this week. Some customers really pushing the envelope So I think they're trying to I think they're kind of hedging their bets a little bit there They're using HANA to really support their existing business, which is the bulk of their revenue And trying to place themselves in a position where they're ready for the future when more advanced analytic capability start to catch up What do you make of the statement that Larry Ellison made around SAP getting into the database business? He said that's like me playing basketball against Kobe, which is kind of funny, you know, Larry's known for funny tongue and cheek statements But isn't it more like, you know, Kobe and Tom Brady in a wrestling match? You know what I'm saying? I mean, it's because isn't SAP strategy is SAP strategy is not to necessarily take Oracle head on Is it isn't it to try to develop sort of new database applications around mobile? I mean, talk about that a little bit Well, I think, you know, they'd love to displace Oracle on as many accounts as they can They wouldn't, but they're easy Right, right, but they're also they're they're they're kind of working with, you know, the work of one of their big partners is IBM or on DB2 and integration with HANA So, you know, they're not I don't think they're looking to take on despite what the company said last year They want to be number two in the database business by 2015 They've backed off They're taking IBM Yeah, they've backed off Microsoft actually, right? So no, is it Microsoft number one or is Oracle number one? I believe Oracle is number one Microsoft to be number two Yeah, so And then IBM IBM three Three And then SAP would be Right now they're they're they're down the Five or six or something Yeah, they're just they're just building their database business so So to become number two, that's a pretty lofty goal They've kind of backed away from that Because they're overtaking Microsoft is non-trivial Microsoft's got a good hold on such a huge volume market Yeah, I think that might have been a little overly ambitious, but I think you're it's interesting your analogy, you know, they're not I don't really think even SAP thinks they're going to really hit that number But I think they We're looking to change the paradigm a little bit where, you know, certainly No one's getting rid of their DB2 or their Oracle databases, for the most part They're going to be there for a while But if they can place on in a position to improve upon those investments to help people Improve performance from their applications And actually leverage their investments they've made over the years in these more traditional database technologies I think that's probably a good strategy All right, we're here with Jeff Kelly, Wikibon's big data analyst And Jeff, I appreciate you coming by and sharing your thoughts about what to look for So we're here for the next couple of days Jeff's going to be roaming the floor and talking to customers, talking to folks and technologists from SAP And, you know, we're here in the Global Communication Center, a.k.a. Blogger Lounge So there's a lot of smart people running around that cover this We've got Alex Williams on the ground as well He's scouring the show, and you've got to know a number of appointments We're going to be checking out Bill McDermott's talk shortly He goes on at, what, 430? 430, so we'll cover that They're not streaming it live And so, you know, I guess they want you to go register to see what Bill McDermott has to say But we will be monitoring it live, and we will definitely be reporting to you So keep it right here We're going to take a quick break And we'll be right back with SiliconANGLE.tv's continuous coverage of Sapphire Now 2012 Be right back