 Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Santa Clarita. I'm Tanya Mulery and I'm the owner of Steamwork here in Santa Clarita. It's a community of entrepreneurs who have banded together, and WordPress plays an important role in our story. And so during the course of today, I want to talk to you about why WordPress, why have I been using WordPress for nine years to grow my business, how to find your first paying client with WordPress because I was hearing that a lot last night from some of the people I met at dinner, and then how to grow a WordPress business from that, and then how WordPress powers our community here in Santa Clarita at Steamwork. As Joe mentioned this morning, I met him at our public library because I was hosting WordPress Meetup which was handed down to me from another gentleman. He had moved to Las Vegas and I decided that this would be a great way to find people in the community that would be able to potentially become clients. That was one of the ideas, but also become resources to our growing agency and may want to get involved in our business community as we were starting to grow Steamwork. And just a little bit about me. I had a big old corporate career back in New York. I was an investment banker, then I worked for MasterCard for ten years, pioneering lots of mobile commerce product development. So if you guys seen the Apple Card, so a lot of the infrastructure and tokenization of the card number was, that was part of my legacy, a MasterCard. And I moved out to Los Angeles twelve years ago to work for a startup and the timing was very interesting. It was the week that the iPhone came out and I had left this amazing job to move my family across the country for a VC funded startup, which lasted nine months right before the crash. And so what happens when all of your plans kind of fall out underneath you? Well, you try to figure out what are your skills and how do you put them to work? Now, at the time, I had no skills in this area. I had done product development and project management and IT, enterprise IT products. But I hadn't done that necessarily for local businesses, but I started to train myself. And my first client, somebody was saying yesterday that they got $200 for the first paid website. And I was like, oh, that's so sweet. How nice. I was so lucky because my friends were consultants and they gave me $9,000 to update their site. And I was like, wow, okay, that sounds like it could work. I'll figure that out for $9,000, right? And so that's when my freelance career began. And I started to, I think it was a .NET framework and I had to get in there and make changes to his site and figure it all out. And then I was like, there must be an easier way. So I started investigating the tools that were available at that time. I was looking at Joomla and Drupal in the very beginning stages. And then over time, I found WordPress and I fell in love. Why did I want to have a more, like instead of jumping back into corporate, why did I want to kind of go down this path? Well, I had, during my 10 years at MasterCard, I had three children. And my three boys now are teenagers, right? But at the time they were two, four and six. And I had just moved my entire family across the country to have a better work-life balance. And I was determined that I would have it. So I definitely poured my heart into learning this and mastering it as best as I could. Over the course of time, though, I've also supplemented my WordPress business with being a startup advisor and marketing resource. So I'm into growth marketing, growth hacking, if you've heard those terms. And I also teach digital marketing and app design at USC for the last seven years. So that's a little bit about me. By the end of this session, my goal is that you guys get to tap into your superpowers and figure out how your background can actually help you grow your agency, right? So do you feel like you have superpowers now that you know a little bit more about WordPress? Or does that sound like we have a long way to go today? We have a long way to go? I'm telling you that WordPress is a superpower, but also combined with your natural background in superpower, you have way more credibility than you're probably yielding today. Wielding, sorry, yielding. Wielding today. My kingdom for a dongle. I love it. That is a professional pack, I have to say. I found it like that. Excellent. You never know when you're going to need a weird new adapter. Right. I know. I usually travel with my, I'm going to just pack an HDMI everywhere I go. So nine years ago, I left a secondary corporate job I had at a digital marketing agency and the Omnicom family to start my own company. And that was the birth of what is now called Steamwork. And our anniversary is the 14th of April, so I'm like literally on the cusp of that. And we built dozens of WordPress sites for small businesses, big businesses, nonprofits, schools, and startups, literally everybody who has any type of commercial, a facing organization needs a website and WordPress is an excellent choice for that. And then I told you a little bit about Steamwork. So why WordPress? And these are, this is where I wish you could see these beautiful slides. But I think that WordPress provides a tremendous value for clients. First of all, with the plethora of creative themes, and if you're a designer, forgive me, but I do love relying on a theme when the budget is important, that it's so customizable, powerful, flexible and functional with its super SEO and it's easy to find support. I think one of the things that I don't love about the ethics of our industry is when developers or WordPress shops are trying to lock down the site so much that the end-user customer doesn't have control over their sites. I find that to be really a challenging ethical dilemma because really it's an asset for the business. And for my philosophy, respecting the rights of the client is always paramount. And so the freedom that WordPress can give to that client is that if they are working with somebody that's not great, they can go and find someone much more easily who can better support them and work within the ethical framework that is needed to rescue a project, right? So how many of you have worked on rescues before? Oh, yeah, right. So being that good actor and a see if maybe not so great actors can be a really good positioning because people do need help and support. People do disappear. And oh, man, I have... We could talk at Draconum later about all those stories. The other thing is just WordPress is super easy to pitch to clients. They've heard of it, right? Which is always a win that doesn't sound foreign to them. And it powers 30% of the internet. Everybody needs it. And most websites are kind of crap, right? So they lack focus. They're designed badly. They have no objective. They don't work well on mobile devices. So you can kind of spot a bad website easily and then be able to pitch a better option to them. And the thing is, especially when you're starting, it's important to remember that just because you think WordPress is easy doesn't mean your clients do. They are still completely overwhelmed with the technology. And you are the expert. You can position yourself as very valuable to this business. You can be their hand holder. And I like to call it the website whisperer, right? Because what you do is magical to them. They have no idea how it's happening behind the scenes. But you also have an obligation to treat that power with wisely. Okay, here we go. Yes. The other thing is WordPress is extra profit for you. If you are coding all these websites from scratch... Okay, I hope to strike that from the transcription. There was a naughty word. Okay, so you can get more done faster. You can get paid not only to design and develop it, but to maintain it, which if you're not doing maintenance contracts then you're leaving money on the table. You can get paid to build continuous content and to have a content factory on your agency. And you can also get paid for custom enhancements. Your customers can stay with you for multiple years. Always upgrading, always enhancing, staying on maintenance, needing more content all the time. You can become a trusted advisor and then get paid to do other projects, get involved with their marketing, get involved with their strategy, get involved with their advertising. But it kind of started with that get the foot in the door WordPress project. Is this reasoning for you guys? Do you do some of this too? This guy is like, I could give this talk. Let's go chat. Okay, so the last thing I would say in the why WordPress category is kiss. You know the kiss strategy? And not the band, right? I like to say keep it simple smarty because I don't like calling people names, but that's okay. But keep it simple smarty. Don't be greedy. You're like your long budget crammed into one project. You'll overwhelm them. You'll lose the contract. Get paid quicker by doing the basics first. So in startup land, you have the concept of minimum viable product. Have you guys heard this term before? It's called MVP. M is in Mary P as in Victor P as in Peter. Minimal viable product. So get something simple done for them and talk about phase two, phase three, phase four, because it helps them understand that you're not trying to take advantage of them, that you're trying to get the important things taken care of first and that you can always make enhancements and work and grow with their business. It offloads a lot of the risk upfront from this project and this relationship, and it gives you a steadier pace for work as well as a steadier pace for income, right? So I think the temptation is, well, let me get the big, big projects upfront, but that's not necessarily the way to maximize your income. Okay. Ta-da. So based on how to find your first paying WordPress client yesterday, conversation, update your sales marketing and delivery. So first of all, you should have a good WordPress website at a minimum, right? Because people will check you out. Your site is your 24-7 marketing sales department, and you're also going to be telling your clients that their website is their 24-7 marketing and sales department. So if yours isn't working, if the links are broken, if the content's outdated, if your picture looks nothing like you today and you've got some things to update. So I would really make sure that you spend a little time on that and book out some time in your calendar on a regular basis to keep that up to date. And have the content flowing regularly. Website must haves. Oh, this is fun. This is good content right here, this blue screen. You can't get that anywhere else, guys. All right. Website must haves. You should have case studies, client results, right? How have you improved your clients' businesses? And testimonials. What do your clients say about you? Have they left reviews anywhere? Have you asked them for testimonials? Have you asked them to give you feedback on your project? Even if they wrote you a letter saying, oh, thank you so much. Our new website is great. Ask, hey, do you mind if I put that on my website and put a picture of your site and a link back to you? And that way we keep promoting each other and we keep supporting each other. So the deeper you make those links, the better off you'll be in developing your community of customers that can help advertise your business. If you've gotten good press, awards, or other trust marks, like maybe you've done an article in the Huffington Post or something like that, well, make sure you keep adding content to your site. If you have been named entrepreneur of the year, I can't remember what the name of the award was. I won a couple years ago. And now I'm thinking, that's not on my site. What's wrong with me? You should have that kind of stuff on your site because that enhances people's trust and that you're good at what you do, but also a good person. You've been recognized by people they trust. The other thing I would recommend is talk a little bit about the process. What should they expect when they go to work with you? How does your process work? Do you have a discovery session with them? Do you then go into a design phase? Do you then go into a development phase? Talk about the phases of your project. One thing I found is that people who are, especially people around the technical side of WordPress, they tend to overwhelm clients with the technical steps. And I would encourage you to not use jargon and not confuse them. If you're working with local businesses, particularly, and you throw a wireframe at them, they literally have no idea what that is. And they're like, why are you giving me boxes? This is not a website. I want a website. And so it takes a lot of education. But if you show them pictures of here's what I'm going to do first. Here's what I'm going to do second. Here's what I'm going to do third. This is what it means. This is the feedback I expect from you. At each of the stages of the process, the clarity of your communication will make them feel comfortable and they won't feel surprised or under duress. So I was working with one of our local WordPress resources here in town, and we were working with a local cake shop. And this woman is fabulous. She's been in business for 40 years. Unbelievable, right? A business success story. And we were really excited to do this website for her, for her anniversary, and she's been through a few different prospective firms to work with. And she finally was like, I feel really comfortable with you guys. But she gets overwhelmed when you present something that's just too much for her, or you ask her for too much content at the same time or too many pictures, or present something that's unfamiliar that she's just not able to process it. In the scheme of all the other things that she has to get done in her business. And so being really careful with how you dose out the updates and the content requests makes a big difference. And also make sure they can contact you. That should be on your website. I know that seems really like a dumb thing to say, but such a big mistake I see people make is if they cannot get to you, if you have no phone number, email, or web form, people can't figure it out, they move on. They go to the next person they find in their Google listings, right? So make sure they can contact you. So those items are trust builders and knowledge builders. And they are laid out on the slide very nicely. Okay, glad I did this. And thank you so much for helping to try to figure this out. I appreciate all the work you're doing while we're doing this. Okay, so the other thing is getting good at selling. Everybody hates the word sales, right? Okay, raise your hands. Do you like I hate selling? Just a minute. I know it's true. Why do we hate this word? It's such a silly thing. What if you used a different word? What if you just said that sales is service? You're just telling people how you can serve them. And seeing if there's a match. What if you actually changed it to this whole idea of servant, servant leadership or service to the client. And all you're doing is putting out a menu like a restaurant. And you're saying, here's how I can help you. I'm going to help showcase your expertise, products and services. I'm going to connect you to more customers. I'm going to help you deliver content. I'm going to get you found. I'm going to be your sales and marketing 24-7. And by the way, it's all going to work automatically. You don't have to keep paying me like you would pay a salesperson. That you would have to give a salary. And our maintenance contract is the fraction of the salary. Oh, oh, oh. So this thing is going to keep serving me all day and night 24-7, 365. Well, that sounds good to me, right? Doesn't it change the conversation when you stop thinking about, well, I just need the money. And I need, they have the money. So I need the money. So let's talk. It has nothing to do with the money. It has to do with the value you're delivering to the business and how their customers are going to find them and become deeper, longer-lasting fixtures in their business. So let's get good at service, not sales, right? Let's express our value in a different way. Okay. The next thing is to make sure in the process, it isn't about, like I said, selling. It's about asking questions. Good questions to ask is, what's a good client worth for you? Why? Because you can really get a lot of information about what their budget for their website might be. Okay. And here's why. What if they are an oncologist and a good client is worth, you know, $50,000 a year to them? I don't know what that number is, right? I actually haven't done an oncology site, but I'm just pulling something out of the air. More. More? Okay. Here you go. How much is a good website worth to an oncologist to get one more client? I'm a cancer patient and I know as a cancer patient you're worth at least $800,000 during your lifetime. Okay. So should they pay more than $2,000 for a website? Yeah. Very good. Okay. Good answer. Good answer. Now we're talking. How about a lawyer? What's, I don't know, a general litigator. What's a good client worth to a litigator? Not much as they could get, right? Do you think that a lawyer should pay, you know, at least a fraction of one good client? What if they got one more good client this year because they improved their website? At least. At least. Okay. So what if it's a different type of price? Like it's a restaurant, a burger shop or a restaurant. Now they are very dependent on having a steady flow of traffic, right? They need really good search optimization. They need really good access to their menu, maybe some ordering. It could be more complicated. What's a good day or a good week worth to a restaurant? What if they didn't have that good day or didn't have that good week? What happens to restaurants when they don't get the traffic? We've all seen, now in Santa Clarita, we have a foodies group on Facebook, and restaurants go out of business literally every week, right? So a restaurant is really dependent on having excellent marketing from day one, get butts and seeds, get people in the door. They need high throughput of those tickets to get through. So what's a good client worth to you is a really important way of getting to the value and stacking the value story for the client. It's like, what if you could use this, right? And it was attracting more clients to you. What if it got you one, two, three more big clients? What if it got you ten more good days in a year? What does that mean to you? And that's a way of getting out of the lowest price bid conversation and into the, this is how it's going to help your business conversation. What's the main job this website needs to accomplish for your business, especially going back to that MVP conversation? A website, especially when you're doing the first project, needs to go to one single focus. What is the outcome you want? And then the other things can be added in, but the singular drive to the end focus, is it getting a lead? Is it selling product? Is it getting to the point where they're making an appointment, right? Have one singular objective in that website. That is the primary focus. Get that chunk done first and then add other things to it so that you really get them to admit that upfront is super important. And if they get that, you actually help them prioritize that way. You've just added tremendous value to their business. And then also ask what they like or dislike about their current site. Many do have a website and many do have a bad website. So you can see what they've had and what worked and what didn't work. And then also inspiration sites, like sites in their industry or sites at businesses they've noticed that they really like the design of or they really like the functionality of. And always be listening. Objections are good. Objections in the sales process means they're engaged. It means that they're still deciding that they haven't said no yet in their mind. Objections mean that they're sorting through their own priorities and there's something else bothering them. So ask about the real concern behind the objection. If it's a time objection, what is it about the timeline that is still bothering you? What is it about the price that's still bothering you? What is it about the content limits that maybe somebody else was putting on you that you find objectionable? How can we figure out a way around that? And if you can get through their objections, you have the business. If you care about understanding and addressing the client's need more than you care about making a huge, like maximizing the first sale, you are going to have this business. Then you can agree on a scope, price and timeline for that first phase that works for everybody. Ta-da! Yay, my fonts are not right. It's okay, it's good, it's good. Look how beautiful they were, okay. Yay! Okay, so protect your scope. Scope creep is like my number one enemy in WordPress projects, right? Because people have ideas every day, because it takes time to build a site. And so really explaining to the client upfront the clarity of what's in the scope of this first project and what is not is super important to define up front and having a process for adding scope, which, you know, in enterprise software land, scope creep is the big term, right? You have to have a firm sense of what's in scope, what's out of scope, what's an additional project or an additional piece of scope. And then you write up another little sheet and say we're adding the scope, we have much money, you get them to sign off, because if you just keep adding things and try to build them at the end, chaos, chaos and terror, it's a rain of fire. I don't advise that. And this helps you to guard your team's value and time so that you're not off doing all these tangents and call them goat rodeos, right? You just don't want to be involved in that. You have to really, even if it seems like it's an emergency, even if it seems like it's the last thing, you have to be in control of this client relationship and explain how this can work. Now, I'm not saying don't be flexible, don't be helpful, but charge for your value and definitely get approval in writing. And always be testing. Now, this goes for your own site. Always be testing your own site, but also their site because one thing that goes wrong as you're going to launch it and suddenly you lost all credibility, you just work super hard, so make sure that you have a good testing process at the end. Frustrated clients talk to other pretend clients. Always be good when somebody's talking about them online, congratulate them or warn them, hey, you've got a bad review, how can we address that? Let's talk about reputation management. Let's see if there's another service we can help you with and proactively respond. And the other piece of always be good when that's kind of fun is once I was referred to the retirees group for Lockheed Martin called the Stardusters. And this was super fun. It was, you know, a board of a dozen retirees, average age 70, but all engineers, can you imagine, right? The amount of detail, questions they had for me. And we're sitting around in a board-style table and I'm explaining WordPress to them, which, you know, this is not rocket science, but it is, you know, something that it takes a little bit to explain. And one guy's on his computer the whole time and he's typing and typing and I'm wondering, like, what's up with this guy? He seems so disengaged, but everybody else is asking awesome questions. And about halfway through the meeting, he goes, wow, I'm on page 10 and I haven't found anything bad about you yet. So he was live searching for me and my company name while I was interviewing with them. And that is the world we live in now. I did get the job. So they've been clients for several years now. Now their average age is 75 and we're still doing enhancements for them. They have a massive membership site and it's using Woo, commerce and Woo member. So it's just, it's really important that you keep your online reputation clean and make your proposals simple. How many of you spend a lot of time on proposals, like massive 15 page documents? Have you ever watched your customers flip through your proposal? Where do they go? The price. They don't care about all that stuff you wrote. They really, really don't. So we're really overdoing it. I would say have a, you know, what to expect document and have a good contract, a good agreement, but all of that work to do fancy, beautiful proposals, simplify and streamline as much as possible because they just don't care. If they've seen good samples of your work, if they know you, they're hiring you and your team and you as a trusted advisor, they're not hiring your ability to create a 15 page document. I promise you. And you're going to be terrified the first time you send out a streamlined proposal. But when you win it, and when they appreciate the clarity with which you delivered it, you're going to thank me later. And you can, you know, tweet at me or something and say, that works. I can't believe it. So stick to the basics. Customize a bit to the client's brand and needs. Keep it short and sweet. And don't keep a hot lead waiting because you don't have time to produce a 20 page proposal. I promise you they're going to appreciate your clarity and your speed. Okay. Now, the other thing that I see as a mistake for people building is they spend a lot of time on consulting and educating. And that has value. If you offer to sit in a half a day meeting with a client to discover their needs and to come up with a requirements document for them, that has value. And you're going to be like, ooh, I don't know if I can charge for that time. And I'm telling you, they will pay for it if you position it the right way. If you say, listen, this is the goal of this time where I'm going to produce a document for you that you can then take and shop out to anybody that you want, but you'll also find out how it is to work together. Whoa. You just relieved all pressure and you might have gotten four or five hundred dollars for building that initial requirements document with them and meeting their team and getting to know them versus wasting your whole day and wondering if they're ever going to buy a project from you. And I hope that changes your lives a little bit because this discovery scope could be the way of actually winning more clients in the long run. They will appreciate that you didn't pay them, that you didn't ask them to pay for the full site before knowing how it is to work with you and before knowing what they needed and you'll improve your cash flow and your time management. Keep your terms simple. Now, some projects are small and some projects are large. I really have a hard time doing projects without a deposit. I would not do that. And, you know, having milestones is great in a larger project and really being clear about this is when the payments happen. Now, for some sites and for some businesses, it doesn't even make sense to have milestone projects. They don't understand what a milestone is. They just don't get that. And so sometimes I do it based on time and I'll say 50% now and 50% on this timeline and this date. And that is because managing their response to you is on them to be responsive, right? And so it's a tricky subject, but I have had a completion payment two months before they actually finished approving our content and that is just how we set it up at the beginning of the project and it's fair because they know that they're not responsive, right? So that's just a suggestion, but definitely make sure you get a good deposit upfront. You don't want to be doing a lot of work without knowing that they're going to pay you. If you're a theme-oriented person like I am and I have a friend that is vehemently anti-theme, so you might be in that camp too, but I love a good theme. I do not like, you know, I used to spend, you know, a couple hours going out and searching for the best theme and what makes most sense for this business and I could just really get wound up in this. And now I use one to three themes that we've used repeatedly and I just show different, you know, versions of them to see what the customer likes if they haven't already given me an inspiration site. But I do really like for them to give me sites that they like and features that they admire and layouts that they think are really great so that I understand their taste, their aesthetic, and that makes it a lot easier to give them something they love. Make sure you get that design direction approved. Lay out one page for them and say, do you like it? Versus... Oh my gosh. Getting the whole site done in one design and then suddenly, gosh, you know, they hate it. They need everything changed, right? And how do you keep communication flowing with a client? Make sure you have a weekly schedule where you say, I'm going to call you and or update you on this schedule. I'm, you know, I'm committing to you. I'm going to use plain English as I describe things to you. We're going to have a good conversation. It's not going to be too techy because some clients are super afraid and they will really appreciate that. And then, three minutes? Is that what it is? Okay. Or does that mean that's a three out of five from the Russian judge? I don't know what's happening. Okay. All right. And help them understand what to look for in this stage you need. So growing the business from freelancer to agency, like if you're one person, you're doing everything, you're getting burned out, you're still on vacation, it's feast or famine, if you can't sell fast enough and deliver fast enough, as you start to grow, you may be able to take on more clients, six to 12 clients and get a more consistent workflow going. You start to specialize your resources and build teams around design, developing, account management, content creation. It gets to be a little bit easier but making that leap from to beyond. Now, the good thing is that you can find a lot of freelancers that are willing to work with you on a project basis and I recommend before you jump into all these full-time resources to have a more elastic staffing model and to find some really trustworthy freelancers who want to get business from you on a regular basis and tell people what to do. What you do. Always be sharing what you do and how you do it on client projects. Not just when it's slow because that's the tendency is like, oh, I don't have any projects next month I better start telling people what I do but always, right? Always have that as a steady drumbeat of your business. Oh man, I had some more stuff here but some good I'm going to give you some last things. We didn't get to steam work but you can ask me questions about that. Here's one of my best strategies. The ugly Betty strategy. Now, people used to come up to me in the street when the show first came out and say hey, you're ugly Betty and I was like what? I didn't know what this was but anyway, I'm going to call this the ugly Betty strategy. It's time. Okay, it's the last one. Look for if you're at a trade show look at an ugly booth or find an ugly website, find an ugly ad, that's your client. They need you, right? Okay. I can put on my glasses and get braces, okay. So, that's one of the best strategies. I guess we'll open it up for questions and you can ask me like anything else that can go over other specialties here and tell you more about steam work. Whoops, the end. Do you need your website? Can you get your PowerPoint? Maybe, yeah, we can figure that out. I think they have it now. You want to ask a question? Sure. Yeah, for sure. We can do that. Yes. You know, how long did it take me? Well, as long as it took me to realize I didn't want to do everything by myself so I started to find a good crew of many given time four or five freelancers that I could rely on to be consistent in delivering a product. So I decided to do that early. I've been working with some of them like six or seven years at least and referred them on to other clients and everything too so that they got that steady work going too because as an owner of an agency you really do feel responsible if you can't supply them with enough work then you feel kind of guilty that you are not keeping them going but we have a lot of good people in our network now that we do some work too pretty regularly. So right now I'm not actively running a hardcore big WordPress agency. My business has shifted a lot but we still do WordPress and support our existing clients. Okay. So the goal of that phase is the requirements document that just gives you a detailed scope of what is going to be in the project and then estimates associated with it. So it's in a way it's helping them decide what a project should cost and how to communicate a good formed project to anybody else. So that document and they could say, okay great now that we flush this out give me three bids but most of the time they won't want to because they like working with you already. Does that make sense? So on a bigger project I think it's a super valuable way of if they're like well we're not ready we're not ready we don't know what we want to say well great why don't we do 500,000, 2,000 whatever the number is relative to what you think some projects could be 20, 25 it just depends on like how complex the business is do like a 10% project up front to get to that scope. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Oh yes. You were talking about design besides the client life. Yes. How do you balance that with if you determine that what's there? That's an awesome question and to show insight in the questions up front with the client to talk about the segments that they serve is really important, right? So especially the older woman who may not even know what websites are down you might know what features and what mounted feature are on it. Right. So does a 6 year old woman who's been making wedding cakes her whole life know what a 20 to 30 year old bride wants? Well probably because she's talked to thousands of 30 year old brides but does she know what that looks like from a web perspective? Right. So it's I have a phrase in my contract that I actually borrowed from another friend of mine who runs WordPress shop too and it was we reserve the right in our professional opinion to push back on you when we believe that you're you know making the wrong decision like we want to have that healthy dialogue or to get to the best outcome for you and to serve your clients. Does that make sense? I really do have that built into my agreement because I want to set that expectation up front that we know what we're doing we know you know what you're doing you make amazing cakes full stop like we honor and cherish that right but we know what we're doing because we've built you know hundreds of sites and we know what the trends are we know what works we want to make sure that we're doing the best job for you just like you know more about buttercream than I do we know more about WordPress than you do right so I do build that into it's an interesting perspective and maybe not something everybody's been comfortable or thought about before but when I saw that clause I was like that is getting adapted for my use because it's awesome okay that's it and that's it okay Russian judge says time to go this was maybe the weirdest talk ever but thank you for your attention and good questions