 Welcome to this edition of Abledon on Air, the one and only program that focuses on the needs, concerns and achievements, is definitely Abledon. I've always been your host, Lauren Seiler. And with me today is the Power Transit Planning Committee of Montpelier. And I'm going to have everybody introduce themselves. Hi, I'm Peter Johnke. I'm with the Vermont Center for Independent Living, and I'm a transportation advocate and a user of the transit system. Hello, my name's Dan Currier. I'm with the Center for Origin Planning Commission. I'm the Transportation Planner. I am Myla Hood, and I work for VCIL as well, and I use transportation as well. And my name is Lauren Seiler, and I'm also on the Transportation Committee. Let's start with you, Dan. What is the missions and goals of the Center for Vermont Planning Regional Planning Commission and the Power Transit Committee? Sure. So the Center for Origin Planning Commission is a regional planning commission. We have 23 towns in our region that we help do municipal planning for, regional planning, and that can be natural resources that can help them with energy planning. That can be a transportation study. And specifically with transportation, we are focused on the implementation of a new paratransit system that the Green Mountain Transit has proposed for our region. And so through a grant with the CTAA, which is the Community Transportation Association of America, we have brought together stakeholders, as well as users of the existing transportation system. When you say stakeholders, what exactly does that mean? Sure. A lot of people in our audience might not know what that means. Sure. Really, it's older adults and people with disabilities that use the existing bus routes. And so whether it's a rider or someone that calls in and gets a deviation of the bus or even uses a volunteer driver to get to and from, whether it's an appointment, shopping, whatever they do on the bus. What's a deviation? A deviation is actually a request that a rider would make 24 hours in advance to a Green Mountain Transit. And that deviation is up to three-quarters of a mile. And actually, the bus would drive up to three-quarters of a mile from the existing route. Say it's a Route 302, Berrymobilea Road. It would drive three-quarters of a mile to the person where they live, pick them up, and then bring them back to that route. And the bus would then continue the route and then drop them off at their destination. Both of you guys being advocates, I'm going to ask this question. Being that you guys use the transportation system, what problems do you see with the system and how do you see this parachart as it can fix it or vice versa or not fix it? This is Peter. And I guess it's a little time old tale as to whether it will fix things or cause problems. I mean, it's difficult to say until they actually implement it. Part of the process of this grant is to get as much input and that Green Mountain Transit will take a look at that input and see if they can create a system that's going to work for this rural area. One of the reasons we brought this together was because we know they have an existing system in Chittenden County and we weren't sure that that system would necessarily replicate really well in a more rural area. So this is one of the things that we're exploring and looking at. I think there are definitely pros and cons and how it balances out is difficult to say. Well, okay. What are some of the pros and what are some of the cons? Okay, so the pros and Marley, if you don't mind I'll use you as a great example. That's fine. Right now Marley uses a deviation to get to work but because of the way the schedule works even with the deviation she ends up at work an hour early. So hangs out for an hour before she can clock in and then it's even worse for her going home because the same deviation isn't available. So she either does a ride cheer with somebody or takes the regular commuter route and then has a family member pick her up and those kinds of things. For her the paratransit would be wonderful because it would be a much more direct process. That's not to say there wouldn't be other people on the bus but they would pick her up at an agreed upon time and bring her to work and then on the return trip they would pick her up. Clearly she can't be picked up before she gets off work so that would all be coordinated and then she would get more directly home. So in those situations it's absolutely a plus. On the downside right now with the deviated route anybody can ask for a deviation. You don't have to have a disability. So for people who don't qualify for paratransit as it's currently defined by Green Mountain Transit those people may lose out because they don't qualify for paratransit but now they can no longer get a deviation to where they used to go off the fixed route. So we'll see. Marla can you tell us some of the other problems that are wrong with the system and how can we fix them? Well as always there's problems everywhere but. Understood. But I personally I enjoy my deviations I like the people that get on I get to speak to people I get to listen to other people's conversations. So I find that quite interesting. As far as problems my only one, like Peter said, would be minds getting home for the most part because they told me I would have to go up to the mall and spend an hour up there and I don't wanna go up to the mountain and possibly spend money that I don't have to, you know so. And I'm gonna bring other big cities into the mix for a minute because New York and Boston well New York for example they have something called accessoride. The problem with that paratransit system is that the drivers sometimes during cold weather would not drop you off at home, right? Or they'll drop you off a little bit before you get, you know, and what if it's icy or something like that. Will paratransit, so my question is now that I brought up big cities and some problems would so paratransit would fix the whole thing or will it make it easy, you know, give more drivers and give more transportation, what exactly will it do? I'll take this. Yeah, please. So some of the things that I see paratransit doing is because it will operate the same hours that the bus operates. So people can work through their schedule as they do now and I actually feel that we'll attract some new riders to paratransit that haven't been willing to try the bus or there's an element of the bus that they're not comfortable with because right now it's a bus or it's nothing unless they qualify to get a volunteer driver to come out and that's a different program altogether. Through the qualification that people can go through, the car or van will come right to their house and it will come in bad weather. As long as Green Mountain Transit is operating its bus routes, that service will also be operating and so now that being said, the drivers won't, for instance, walk the person to their door, right? They'll bring them as close to the house as they can and then let them out from there and so there is this element of concern that I've heard from a few people that are on the older adult side that say, well, it's walking in the winter time. It's the icy sidewalks that we can't manage and so how do we go about dealing with this and so trying to get someone to drop you off right at the door is always tricky and then it's the last 10 feet that may be even harder for them to get to and so having some maintenance that they need to do at their end or having someone there to greet them may be necessary as well. Green Mountain Transit will bring them as close to the door as possible. No, I also noticed sometimes I see a Green Mountain Transit bus that says special on it. What exactly is that? That's not Power Transit. No, in fact, a lot of that time that's actually a special trip that's been requested either through our elderly disabled program which is a funding source that helps to get people to meal sites or to appointments and so those buses that say special, those are special trips. Like a Cabot has a bus that runs all the way out there to pick up seniors and then they eat at the, is it Blue Marble? I think it's the Twin Valley. Twin Valley, thank you. Twin Valley Meal Site, which is a senior center and that's on route two in Plainfield and so in that case it's a lot, that bus to say special, that bus will still operate for those type of trips and the Power Transit type of system that we'll see is Green Mountain Transit has a series of sedans as well as vans. It may even be a bus, depending on the number of people that need to be picked up, they may still send out a bus as long as the bus can. Get to where it needs to go, have a safe spot to pick people up as well as return, be able to turn around and come back. Do you, now what's the difference between art I think is RTC or the red buses versus the Power Transit? What is the difference between the two systems? So RCT, that's just another transit provider in the state of Vermont and so they currently run a deviated system. Am I right, Peter? And they have volunteer drivers that primarily do a bit more of a, if you're on my route, I will pick you up kind of scenario, right? They'll get a whole route with all these people to pick up so they'll gather a bunch of people on a single car ride or a single bus ride, bring them to their destinations and then return them home. It'll Green Mountain Transit, that's what they currently operate as. So moving to the Paratransit will be totally separate, will no longer be that bus. It'll be a driver of that car going out and picking people up, similar to how RCT does its volunteer drivers. So let me just add in there, because there may be a little bit of confusion because sometimes people will see the red RCT bus in this area and that's the specific commuter route for the U.S. Route 2 and that's a joint operation between RCT that operates out of St. John'sbury and Green Mountain Transit and so they share and so they each have like a couple of runs morning and afternoon and so if you see that bus in Montpelier, it's just part of the U.S. Route 2 commuter route which has nothing to do with Paratransit. Okay, now in terms of times, because I know that the transit does not run on a Sunday. Right. A lot of people are complaining about that. It is because of will the Paratransit or will GMTA give more time now that this is going to be in swing, will it change the times that the bus is running? Will there be more buses running on Sunday? Because what if somebody wants to go to church or something like that or a religious place? Yep. And they can't because they don't have ways. So it's my understanding right now that what GMT is doing to a number of its routes including the Hospital Hill routes, that's the Montpelier route as well as the Berry Hospital Hill is they're going to make those bidirectional so that someone, so this may actually help you Marla. To get to where you need to go because by having it bidirectionally on this every 60 minutes it may actually get you home. Well, wait a minute. If it's every 60 minutes there's buses that run every half an hour in mid morning or morning and then 12 o'clock or mid day, well can you alleviate the confusion for our viewers? There's some changes to the mid day route that's happening right now. So that commuter route that runs along 302 and has a mid day bus, that would actually go away. That mid day bus, it would still be called the commuter route, right? So the Montpelier commuter and run to Berry and back. Those particular hours would be changed slightly. So the schedule would be revised and the Berry Montpelier Hospital Hill routes would actually be extended slightly. So their hours would change a little bit as well as how frequent the bus would be traveling back and forth. Your question about Sunday service, yes, that has been identified as a need. It's currently not being proposed to be added. So right now no Sunday service is being offered and they're not proposing to add any Sunday service at this time. That in a study that Grimhound Transit just completed called the next gen study, they developed a series of scenarios and that Sunday service falls under one of their scenarios that if they had to add cost to the service like a 10% or 20% cost increase under that scenario, then they would add Sunday service. So with some more funding, Grimhound Transit could add Sunday service, but it's not currently being proposed. They're looking to really do a cost neutral or with inside their existing funding sources be able to provide the same service or slightly better service as well as adding this pair of transit. In your opinion, do you think it should be increased or as far as the? Well, I mean, I understand the realities of transit service. So absolutely, there's always a greater need, not only just for Sunday service, there's greater needs for people who want longer hours. So you have to, there's not an unlimited pot of money. So you have to balance things out. And there are always people who are gonna be happy with changes and there are gonna be people who are unhappy with changes. The reality of the situation. So you have to really look at what's gonna work for the greatest good for the greater amount of people. And that kind of goes back to what I was saying before, is we won't really know until we start with the implementation stuff. I'm encouraged that I think there will be more benefit than people getting less service. But regardless of whatever changes, some people are always going to get less than what they had before. Well, I won't say always, but it's likely. And that may not be a lot of people, but there may be a few. Some people will get more. And hopefully more people benefit and fewer people lose out a little bit of service that they previously had. And there may be some ways, once we see how the implementation actually goes, there may be some ways to mitigate that through other funding sources, other programs that aren't part of this paratransit system. Marla, how do you see this? I mean, would you wanna see expanded service? Well, of course, yes. It would be nice to be able to go shopping on a Sunday. I would, that would be my preference to begin with. But right now I rely on family members to do so. But I think Sundays would be a great opportunity for everybody, but like they said, you don't have that funding at the moment. If they could do it, great. Now, sensitivity training is an important one. Now that you're gonna have this, we're gonna have this paratransit thing going on. In terms of the paratransit, I know it's gonna have wheelchair lifts, right? Yes. Are drivers gonna be, are drivers retrained, both in the, are they trained every year on how to use the lift or are they gonna get more training or more sensitivity training towards helping customers with disabilities? Well, I'll take a crack at it. I mean, I don't know what... It's your opinion, I mean, yeah. I don't know what their specific policies are as far as how often the training goes. But from my own experience of riding the bus, now I'm not a wheelchair user, but the current bus system can accommodate wheelchairs and it does pick up wheelchair users. And my experience has been, with rare exception, I've seen drivers handle the wheelchairs very appropriately, be very courteous to riders, making sure they ask the right questions. And I have, when I've seen something that I didn't think was appropriate, I have made a complaint. So I'm not afraid to do that, but I haven't seen it. I'm very pleased with the drivers that I've interacted with and what I've seen them interacting with people with a variety of disabilities, not just physical disabilities. Now I know we don't have it here, but the PowerPoint presentation that you did last weekend and we're gonna show in editing, we're gonna show some of your meeting. Can you explain a little bit about that PowerPoint presentation and how it plays into all of this? Sure, yeah. Part of our grant requirements was actually to develop what we call the elevator pitch, right? A presentation that you would give in three to five minutes and really help someone to understand the grants, right? And so we're out to create a more informed ridership of this new paratransit service, right? We want to engage directly with the users of that service, right? So it's the elderly, it's folks with disabilities, right? And it's their caregivers as well, you know, adults that will help those populations get to the services or even maybe even call the services for them. And then also we're out to develop an outline and then provide that outline to Green Mountain Transit so they understand like, these are the needs, right? This is what the users have said their needs are. Can we make sure the service reflects these needs? And we're doing that through a series of surveys. We're actually just finished up a survey. The goal of the grant is also to get as much input in the beginning and throughout the process. And so that's why the steering committee that we have, the paratransit planning committee is so important and having users that are experienced with the service and can help provide that lens for myself as we move forward. Okay, now when the grant ends, where does that leave the committee? And future goals of the paratransit because I understand that, you know, money, it plays a part in this. And, you know, being a volunteer driver for some folks, people wanna get paid, especially when you're having people with disabilities on your buses, you wanna get paid for that. How do, will paratransit stay if the grant is no more? Or how does that work? And so the grant is just helping us to develop a study and the outline and interactions like this, right? And really to build some material as well as help us to understand how to engage more inclusively in our own planning. So I know the Central Regional Planning Commission intends to take my experiences here and actually include it in our other planning that we do. So beyond the grant, we're learning how to plan more inclusively, how to encourage various populations to come to meetings that they don't typically attend and how best to do that. But beyond the grant itself, there's other opportunities for the committee to stay engaged. We have an existing elderly disabled working group and that particularly helps us to focus our efforts on to spend our elderly disabled funding which is currently managed through the Green Mountain Transit. I am actually on that committee. And Peter's on that committee as well. Are you on the committee? No. No. Not that one. Yeah, and so beyond that, there's also Green Mountain Transit has an ADA committee, American with Disabilities Committee. And it currently, because Paratransit only operates in Chittenden County, that's who the membership is. So it's a very urban focused committee. We'd like to, the goal of the grant is also to add new rural members. As soon as Paratransit is offered in our county, we'll want members to be added to that committee as well at Green Mountain Transit. And so adding to that committee, members from our own steering committee is a goal. And identifying those people before the grant ends is an outcome. And so we want that to occur. No, all right. Now, in terms of, okay, so future goals, Paratransit's gonna be in full swing. We mentioned pros and cons earlier. What are some of the pros and cons? There's pros and cons to everything. So in your opinion, with certain things, with pros and cons with the Paratransit, will there be bad and good with the Paratransit system? Or how do you see that? Absolutely, there certainly will be. One thing that will happen each year with the Paratransit system, just like all the routes the GMT operates is, they do service analysis. They look at the ridership. They make sure that the service they're providing is meeting the needs. And I know, so I'm currently an alternate member of their board, Green Mountain Transit's board, and so for Washington County. And so I know the board has a rural focus as rural members. And so our focus of those rural members is to make sure that the service we're being get is the service that matches well to our regions. And so one goal that the board continually talks about is like, how do we go about service improvements? And how do we incorporate them really at the, bring them, not just from the board level, but all the way down to the drivers, the riders, and making sure. I mean, of course we have some time on the clock, but is there a cost? I know that it's 50 cents for special needs, you know, disabled riders, it's a dollar for everybody else. In terms of caregivers that help people on the bus, to and from, are they going to have to pay, or is there a cost for power transit? I have not seen the list of costs yet. I presume the cost would be zero, but that's just my assumption. There may be a small cost, like that 50 cent cost you talk about. You should know the cost is, doesn't recoup the actual operating. We get a lot of, Green Mountain Transit gets a lot of money from the FTA, as well as the State of Vermont. And so, FTA is what? The Federal Transit Administration. And so those funds go directly to the operation of our transit provider, right, the Green Mountain Transit. And then we get a lot of money from the State of Vermont, and then a smaller portion comes from the towns. And then even smaller portion of that is actual the fare boxes, right? The dollar you pay or the 50 cents you pay. And so they're not out to really recoup much at the fare box level. So if it's, it may absolutely in the end be free, but. Yeah, I mean, as Dan said, we haven't seen what the fare, the costs would look like. Green Mountain has it still in analyzing that. But under the Americans with Disabilities Act, the fare for paratransit can be twice as much as the regular fare. It's, that's what it's allowed to be. My understanding is. It doesn't seem fair. Pardon me? It doesn't seem fair. Yeah. Well, it's, I mean, in my mind it maybe it isn't fair, but in some ways it's more direct service. I mean, the reality is it's a more costly service. I mean, in, you know, and I think Green Mountain Transit is doing a lot of stuff to try to reduce those costs. I mean, part of when this whole paratransit idea came up, I mean, years and years ago when the Americans with Disabilities Act came about, all they had were, you know, wheelchair lift equipped vans, and those are expensive to operate in. So that was part of the negotiating process. And plus not only that, they break down also. Right. And they have to be repaired, yes. But Green Mountain Transit is doing a lot of things in using alternatives, using volunteer drivers, using some sedans. So they're looking at ways to reduce those costs. And so as Dan says, we don't know yet. But it's also my understanding, typically, a lot of transit providers, and I can't speak specifically for Green Mountain, they would not charge anything for the attendant or the caregiver to go with the rider. The rider would pay the fare, but there would be no cost for it. Okay. Marla, this is more directed to you. In big cities, here's a loophole or problem I see that maybe could be fixed. It's against rule, especially in big city, to leave a disabled person in a wheelchair, let's say. On a bus alone, what I see here, and I've ran into issues, when we first got to Vermont, where my wife, my wife is not wheelchair bound, but there were other disabled people on the bus, if a driver has to go for a bathroom break, okay? There should be another person, whether it can be a volunteer driver or another alternative to take over that driver while the person's on a lunch break, or 15, 20 minute lunch break. You don't take your lunch break or bathroom break in the middle of, you see the, now, how can we change that? Is there a way to change that by having a replacement driver? Or can we see changes like that happening within Chiang Mai? I think that would be a big problem by having another driver there just so the person could run and go to the bathroom, unless it was, I mean, a dire need type. But... Personally, I don't think you should leave a disabled person on the bus, period. No, leaving the bus is not the right thing to do, but I don't know what the answer to that would be, except to maybe just look at someone on your bus that seems responsible and say, I'll be right back, keep an eye on things, if you need me, I'm in there, you know? Because personally, I don't see someone just driving over and taking over the bus because, I mean, except for lunch. I've never seen a bus driver have lunch before. I have. Yeah, I was just going to say, my personal experience has been that drivers have stopped at the regular stop, you know, they may be, you're typically starting their route, so they may be a couple of minutes ahead and need to sit there a few minutes to catch up time. So they may be off the bus, literally for two minutes, not more, to go to the bathroom and come back on the bus. And I think the difference, and that goes back to one of the things that we're doing with this whole planning process is, maybe that would be a bigger concern in a big city. This is Vermont. Vermont is very different. And I think you would find that most Vermonters would, they, it's not a big deal. We live in a dangerous world, though. Anything can happen. Well, anything can happen anywhere. And so, To anyone? Yeah, yeah. That's so important. Well, you can't mitigate every kind of thing. I mean, the roof could fall down right now. It's possible, you know? And so, I can't mitigate all of those possibilities. So, we look at where we live, we look at where we are, and we make choices. And in this case, I mean, what I started to say was, that's where we're looking at this process, because this area is not like Chittin County. It's a bigger area. I don't know if this situation you referred to happened in Chittin County or if it happened in Washington County or where. But I think we, Vermonters, my experience has been is, they're very much want to do things in a Vermont way. They're not necessarily going to follow a big city pattern or just because somebody else does it a certain way. They're doing it that way. Misconceptions with the power transit, okay? Now, going forward, are they going to be hiring more employees to do this or is the power transit going to be run by regular drivers? So, how do we see this happen? Well, the power transit, as soon as GMT says we're switching to power transit, it has to provide the service. And so, it'll have to either use existing drivers or hire new drivers depending on what the need is. And so, that's something that will have to be done, no matter what. And so, some drivers, because if you're, say, if they use the sedans, then you can hire someone that doesn't have to have their CDL license, right? Because they need that CDL license to drive the buses right now. And so, there might be a scenario where you actually have a different tier of driver, right? That only drives the sedans or only drives the vans that they have if that's not a required for CDL. But that'll be on Green Mountain Transits to figure out. But as soon as they say we're offering a pair of transit, that's it, they're providing it. And so, they'll have to provide the rides that are requested. And so, yeah. What is it, the other board that you're on through GFGA, how does this work, hand in hand with that? Yeah, and so, that board is the board that oversees the entire organization. It also authorizes the creation of all the routes and the spending of the money to operate, like say the Berry Hospital Health to operate the pair of transit service. So, Green Mountain Transit will go through their own public hearing process as well as develop a plan, present that plan and schedule to the board. And then that board will approve or ask for revisions. And so, when it's approved, then the Green Mountain Transit then has the ability to move forward with the implementation. Their implementation schedule is actually matching up relatively well to our own implementation schedule. Our plan is, in our outline, is due to be completed at the end of December. Green Mountain Transit is then moving through a series of public hearings of their own changes through January, February, with the hope- What are some of those changes? Those changes are to the Berry, Montpelier, Hospital Hill routes, as well as they're looking to- More of them? Or? Yeah, they're looking to increase frequency by making the bus go bi-directionally. One bus will start in Montpelier, one bus will start in Berry, and they'll cross in the middle. And so someone could get up to the mall more quickly, up to the hospital more quickly. And so instead of having to wait full 60 minutes, which I think is why you were mentioned about having to wait 60 minutes at the mall. 60 minutes at the mall. They may end up having to only wait 30 minutes, for instance, because the bus, they could get the next bus that's coming, the direction that they need to go. And so, but ultimately, Green Mountain Transit hopes to really go through and have a presentation ready for the board in March, to present to them, to ask for these changes, and then for the board to approve those changes. Anything, well, of course we have more time, but anything you wanna add to how to implement more changes? Well, I think as, I mean, in any process, it's helpful to sort of roll things out a little bit slowly. I mean, I realize that they're, in terms of Green Mountain's entire territory, they're looking at changing routes in Chittin County and tweaking all different kinds of things. And so, Dan mentioned in this area, the hospital hill routes, and it would also affect the Berry, Montpelier commuter between those two things. And as those things get rolled out, even if there are other things, there may be other things that, oh, we'd like to do, but we're not sure quite yet. We have to see if there's funding. And I mean, one of the hopes is that these changes will increase ridership, and so that will increase funding a little bit. I mean, you don't get a lot from the farebox things, but you do get some. And so, and then if, I mean, that follows that if you can show towns that more people in your town are riding the bus, and the towns are willing to contribute more money. I mean, one of the things that I'm hopeful for, it's, you know, I don't know if it'll get phased in, you know, in this plan that Dan talked about, that may be implemented around March, it may be a little longer, but there are some needs in Berry City that aren't being met in terms of transit. And one of the- How so? Well, one of the things, the best way I can use an example in Montpelier, there's what we call the Montpelier circulator. And it circulates around within the town, but it helps people, you know, navigate within the city fairly easily to get from different places, from Shaw's to the co-op or to the rec center. So what's the difference between the circulator and the, because I know if I'm not mistaken, the circulator is the one that goes up to national life. That's correct. That's correct. I would just, you know, and then the hospital hill goes to the hospital, Walmart and some other places, Applebee's if you wanna stop there, you know. Correct. I mean, those are just, those are two different routes. Yeah. And the Berry City could benefit from a similar circulator within Berry City that one does not currently exist, but they could also greatly benefit from having that kind of thing to help people get to, you know, a lot of the shopping places have moved from the downtown to a little bit further out, could help people get around and go to restaurants or banking or, you know, pharmacies, those kinds of things that they have harder time doing now. Is Berry City gonna have power transit as well? Is it gonna go? Well, the existing, the proposed pair of transit would be part of, I mean, the, it would affect the Berry Montpelier commuter route that that goes. Pair of transit would follow there, so it would be in Berry. The hospital hill and the Berry, the Montpelier hospital hill and the Berry hospital hill also would be part of the Pair of Transit system. So three quarters of a mile off of both of those routes is where the Pair of Transit would extend. I realize sometimes it's a little hard for people to sort of envision what three quarters of a mile is, and I don't have a, we don't have a map with landmarks to look at, but that would be one way to look at it if you go to, if you have access to Google Maps, you could look at that and figure out what that is. Generally speaking, I think most people, if you have the ability to walk, I mean, a wheelchair user could probably do it a little faster, but most people probably can walk about two miles an hour, maybe a little faster, two and a half miles an hour. So three quarters of a mile should, maybe take you about 20 minutes. And I mean, that's a lot to walk, so hopefully that would be the benefit of having the Pair of Transit, but that should give people an idea. Now, Pair of Transit, so the Pair of Transit, in a sense, they'll stop at the person's house, they won't be in a bus shelter, it won't go anywhere. That is correct, as long as their house is within that three quarters of a mile limit. Okay. What would you like to add as far as future goals to the Pair of Transit and how you see this in the broader future? Dad. So. Well, everybody. I mean, the future for me, I mean, I think is trying to find a way to actually serve more of our world towns. People that live in the mountains. Exactly, yeah. And so we've been having a discussion in the Matter of Valley, right? So that's the towns of Warren, Waitsfield, Faston, Moretown, Duxbury, you know? Those are the towns that really I've thought about as the Matter of Valley. And so, ultimately, there's so many more people that are living out away from our villages, right? So how do we, and that's a- And there's no way for them to get to the store. Right, yeah, and again, and that's still a population that lives out there that's elderly, that are people with disabilities, right? And so how do we serve those folks? And so developing into the future of some type of system that may be more of a, well, we'll send out a few cars to pick up those folks, bring them into the fixed-route system so they can then operate on that fixed-route system and then return them home at the end of the day or whatever the scenario is. I think trying to move forward and be more creative in the way that we're offering our transit is going to be a key to its success. And so trying to crack that nut, I think, is a real future goal. And I've heard out of other planners, both at the state level, through the agency of transportation, as well as the other regional planning commissions. We're one of 11, you know, the Central Vermont is one of 11 regional planning commissions. I have a counterpart transportation planner in every one of those offices, you know, and so we've got a lot of information, a lot of knowledge to share and work collectively at. So what of the work does the planning commission do, not the transit committee, but the planning commission itself? What exactly do you work on? Yeah, I mean, this little people can know a little bit more. Sure, I mean, we have an office of seven people and they range, only seven, I know, I know. But they range in skills, right? So we have people that make maps for communities, right? So say they need a new map, a roadmap or a map that shows where everyone lives in town, right? Using house addresses or whatever the scenario is. You know, so with people that specialize in making maps and sharing those with communities, we have planners that are, that write plans that actually say we want this type of vision in town, help us craft a town plan that will meet this vision, right? And then develop a future land use scenario to actually produce that vision. So that green map, I think, it's not a cartoon type of map, but like if you're staying in a hotel, you get a map of the stuff that's in town like the restaurant, is that part of your... We don't make those maps, but we make similar maps to those. Yeah, we're really focused on like a municipal needs, right? The municipalities in our county, there's 23 of them that we serve. You know, what do they need, right? A lot of times it's, I want to know where all the trails are. Show me where the trails are. I want to build a plan around connecting trails because I want to bring more economy to my town by encouraging people to come and bike, recreate, you know, and really interact with our village centers. And so we do a lot of planning around that. I'm focused a lot on transportation, but also natural resource like erosion. Where do we have erosion occurring on our roadways? How do we fix that erosion? How do we solve some of our green algae blooms that are happening in Lake Champlain? We're at the headwaters of the Winooski River. That Winooski runs into Lake Champlain, right? So we're planning, we're trying to help the state achieve its own goals. And so really a conduit between what the state wants to provide and what the towns need assistance with. And so we're running the gamut, you know, whether it's sitting on a state committee or attending a local town planning meeting, right? So we do it all. As far as GMTA and accessibility and people with disabilities or special needs, one of the issues that I think we could change, like if you're, for example, and you can chime in on this, if you're at a bus shelter, you see the map of the times, the time schedule, right? I feel that that could be larger print for people who need it. And also, and also here's another suggestion. The maps that you get, or the time schedules that drivers give out, I know it's money to make things, larger print or Braille, because Braille costs lots of money to make it thicker paper, but maybe having a larger print of those schedules. I believe you can request those larger print. During our community meeting, there was a representative from Green Mountain Transit, Jordan was there, and he was telling us that anyone can make that request, but I agree, I think it should be almost standard practice at some point. It just needs special practice. Especially at a bus shelter. Being the fact that I have visual impairment is really hard to see that. And some of those things or schedules are old that are still there or antiquated as far as the date. Yeah, I think Green Mountain Transit, they create this best bus mapping guide and they can get rather complicated depending on the type of deviation that can happen, the type of request that can be made on routes. I think one thing that Green Mountain Transit really heard during the next gen studies that they need to streamline their service. They need to make it easier for the users of the service to understand how to use the routes, right? What's the time? If it says a time, and I know where to go to get the bus, the bus will arrive at this time, right? That's what they really... Sometimes it doesn't happen that way. I agree, I agree. But the ultimate goal should be, if it's printed, it should be able to happen at that time. And the time point surveys that they end up doing, they're on time performance, that all plays a role into making sure that what they print is what they can commit to. I mean, that's one of the reasons that this whole process has come about also is because they recognize that it's difficult for people who are expecting a bus to be at a certain spot at a certain time, especially like on the Berrymont Piliar Hospital Hill runs, because those are routes that allow deviations. And of course, they try to factor in enough time to do those deviations, but sometimes obviously it doesn't work. So deviation would be like if someone has to go to a medical appointment or... Correct. Or there's a rehab gym up on the Berrymont Piliar... I think it's by Berrymont Piliar Hospital Hill. I'm not sure the name of that. There is one there. The Rancher Road. The first in fitness. Yep, yep, that's the Rancher Road. Yeah, correct. And so that can sometimes throw off that schedule. And so part of this whole next gen process has looked at that and recognizes, for a lot of people, that's a problem. And so one of the things that this new proposal would do by doing away with the deviations, it would streamline that schedule. It would be easier for the buses to stay right on time. So people would know the bus is gonna be here at this time and it's gonna get me to where I wanna go at this time without having to worry about, oh, am I gonna be on a run that has a deviation? So I'm gonna be 10 minutes late or something like that. And in the same way, because that gets streamlined, it's also gonna be easier to streamline the route schedules, the actual printed papers that they hand out on the buses. So it will be a little bit easier to read as well. That's not to say that they are available in large print. No, we understand that cold weather is upon us soon. Maybe tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, we're getting hailed. But my question is this, has GMTA ever stopped or not run due to bad weather or deviated schedule or here's another thing. Will power transit drivers, because black ice is one of those things that's really hard to see for anyone with a visual impairment, well, because I know in New York and some big cities, what they do is they, the power transit people get off the bus and help the person to their door because they can't see black ice. Will that happen or how, will they help them to their door? May I say that I've always found that all the drivers are very helpful and if someone needs to get to a certain spot, I've seen a lot of them just get out and help them to get where they need to go. That's my point, being more courteous, yeah. Yes, yeah. Okay. Don't you feel that's a Vermont way as well? That is. Yeah, everything is better here than is. But go ahead. But answer your question about the weather. The answer is yes. They have canceled service during some of the more severe snowstorms and so and they will, they do try to notify people that they know I want to operate that route and they usually give at least them an option, one final run, right? This is the last run we're going to operate. If you want to, if you have to get back to Waterbury, you have to get back to St. John'sbury, this is the run you have to take and so they'll notify the people and they remount and transit really, there's a number that you can call into and add your phone number to and it will call you if there's some change in their schedule. What is that number do you have? Oh, I don't know it off the top of my head. It's on their bus mapping guide. Okay. So it's right there. So does anybody wants to contact the Power Transit Committee for any questions they may have after this program airs or what is the number that they can reach? Yeah, they can call me. They can call me, Dan Currier, at my office. The number is 802-229-002. And that will, that's a general office number. So if you, if someone picks up and they are like, hi, this is Ashley, just ask for Dan and if I'm not there, please leave me a message. Yep. And shouldn't we also mention that we get the survey out now? Absolutely, thank you. Yes, if you want to mention about the survey. And so a one item that's about to be released is a survey basically for the riders and for potential riders of the Power Transit Service to help provide feedback to us as we craft our outline. We'll be surveying through October and November. And the survey will be available online as well as hard copy. And so in the online version, there's a web map, sorry, a web version that you can fill right out online. I'm also gonna create a word version and probably a PDF version as well. Because Lauren, you've been sharing how hard it was for you to use your text to reader. And so I was gonna chat with you about that some more. What's the right format for the survey to be in? Because I wanna make sure that all the accommodations that people use can utilize the survey and then send it to me is what we want. And they can mail it, email it. I feel it should be accessible with some people with visual impairments that, you know. Absolutely, yeah. And you should know that is the ultimate goal, yeah. Yep. Well, does anyone wanna add anything before we end? This might be the biggest one that's getting a survey out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we can't. The survey is really important and we'll get it out, but we have to get input from people. If nobody responds, we aren't gonna have good answers. We won't have enough data to put a good outline together that these are the needs of the people in Washington County. And the important needs, especially for people with disabilities. Yeah. Well, I would like to thank the Transportation Committee for joining me today on this edition of Abledon On Air. For more information, Dan, what is the number again that they gave you? Sure, you can call me at 802-229-0389 and just ask for Dan. Okay, this puts an end to this edition of Abledon On Air. I'm Lauren Seiler. See you next time.