 Welcome to Toffey TV, I'm joined by John Blane from Everton Business Matters to talk basically just a catch-up about the business side of the football club and stuff like that. How was it going to be? How your holiday was? No, no, that's done sadly. Until next time, until next time. So, you know, while I was away, the transfer window finally shut in terms of obviously closed just before the season for players coming in. It's shut now in terms of getting players out of the club. The consultation for Bramley Moore, public consultation finished the second one. So before we go on to the public consultation, let's do the players stuff first. Transfer window done and dusted. We sat down in May, I think it was, over here to you and talked about the issues that Marcel Brands kind of faced in terms of getting players in and getting players out. Obviously we brought seven players in, I think, over the transfer window. You write again, does it? No. What did you say? Satan people told me. What did you say? I said we bring six in. What did I say? Less. Less. So you're right again. There you go. Well, we had seven so we were both wrong, really. But we spoke about how Marcel Brands would have his way cut out to get some players out. How do you think he did in terms of getting people out the door? I mean, I guess you've invited me, so I feel honoured about to say that you should really listen to our podcast. Cos actually, yeah, I mean, we do go into quite a bit of detail about this. And we have some decent jousting myself and Paul, cos we have slightly different views. On the outcome. But what we both agreed, I think, and you'd have to listen to podcasts to see whether I'm telling lies or not. What we both agreed was that clearly Brands, as we've talked before, Brands has inherited somewhat of a challenge. It's probably a bit unfair to describe professional football as the deadwood. But there's a fair amount of a number of players who you can't foresee them getting anywhere near the first team or indeed the first team squad. It's not part of the manager's plans, I think that's the way. It's not the manager's plans, unless some disaster strikes. And sadly, a couple of those players are still here, notably Neas, I guess. So Brands' challenge was to move on the deadwood. Clearly to find good development opportunities for those players who have some potential. So a fair amount of loans got out of the academy and stuff, cos we've got to continue the progression through the age groups into the 23s and things like that. Which is why Unsworth does such a good job, if you think about it, winning the league for the second time with almost a completely different set of players than they'd won a few years before. And then to bring players in to enhance the squad. And to do all that within the confines of the legislation. When we have our backs against the wall on protability sustainability rules and financial fair play and all that sort of stuff. And then people then will perhaps have a binary view about how they thought that went. And I think it was a good window. I don't know what you think. I think players coming in, I think was a good window. I think could it have been a bit better if we would have been able to get K2 women in permanently. But it wasn't for the want to try and all the fact that it... Yeah, but I think that's an example. People have a view. But I'll ask you the question because I know if you listen to the podcast this is perhaps something that me and Paul disagree on. My view is notwithstanding what brands had to do with the financial modelers and the money ball guys and all that sort of stuff to stay within regulation. Had Zuma been available, we'd have bought him. Yeah, oh yeah, what I was saying. And the same with Zaha probably as well. Well we would have bought both of those players. Was another 100 million. Of course, yeah, what I was saying in terms of a good window, when you look at it overall, the quality of player that come in. Is there a gap in the squad that we didn't feel at centre back? Zaha would have been lovely because he'd have been an extra player who's an extra attack. He'd got Premier League experience, good quality footballer. But that didn't happen. We've got Alexiwobi, I was happy with that. If you're asking me was I happy with the transfer market, yes it was. It could, I would have been even happier had Kate Zuma came in. The issue and the fault doesn't lie with Everton as far as I'm concerned there because we would have paid for Kate Zuma. Even Chelsea would have rang up noon on Deadline. They ain't got 40 million these years. Everton would have bought him like that. So I don't blame Everton for that. I'm just saying that would have made the window better. In terms of players going out of the door, I think we all wanted to see the Kevin Morales situation sorted and it was. You know, obviously Henry Ongycyru, we had an issue with the work payment. He's never going to end up. It wasn't happening because he wasn't playing for Nigeria, so we got money for him. Good money. Double that money, didn't we Anna, he'll go up again. Adam Ola Llywchman, I know a lot of people were happy with that transfer, but the lad didn't want to be here and wasn't going anywhere. That was the point that was almost... If he wants to go and he feels comfortable in Germany, where he's only sub by the way for Leipzig. I was going to make the point. It's funny how you were talking about Dortmund before and I will watch that thing on Prime. But once you have some excuse to have an affinity with a club, you follow it, don't you? And I've looked at Leipzig and I said to my mates, he wasn't even in the squad for the first game, he was a bench for the second game. I'm not lost since. He got on in the second game, third game he didn't get on. There you go, so he's moved from the Premier League to the Bundesliga. Same result really, you might get a game, you might not. It's early days, isn't it? It's a very good football. But I think it was good business anyway. Yeah, I mean we've got decent money people. What annoys you slightly when you look on social media, I guess, on these players go, is when people come on and go, why didn't we get £40 million for them? You're not going to get £40 million for someone that nobody else wanted. And if no Premier League club wants you, let's be honest, that's the way the money is, isn't it? It doesn't come from saying we're flassaged to some degree. But then what I would say is people asking for £40 million for Luchman, we only paid £28 million for a woby who's played a hell of a lot more Premier League games, is probably more proven than Luchman. So it swings in random. It's flassages and the other one you're absolutely right flassage is a very, very good footballer. Wasn't going to get in our team at the moment. Been to Moscow, enjoyed it. Wanted to stay there and play games. And he'll be one of those players. I expect that we'll join Roma or Inter Milan or someone in Spain and everyone will be like, we had him, we could have had him. But he may be suited to the continental style a little bit slower. I think the Premier League was Hailey Bailey. It's like that fellow deslogger from Stoke. Shaqiri. You know, great promise, can do it, can show flashes, which is particularly what Luchman did. I don't even think he flashed when he was in our shirt. And people remember those show real things rather than what actually happens in games. Apart from the odd flash, neither of them pretty much did anything. And we've got about 30, 40 million quid for them. At the end of the day, we saw Luchman flashed at Young Y Curie. None of them were contributing regularly enough. And we've got money in for them. And you're placing that with players who will come in and I think do very well for the club. You know, I suppose that the only kind of downside at the moment is obviously John Philippe Gabamon getting injured. That's a gutting thing because I feel I know he came on a palace and he was okay, his numbers showed up well. But you know what, people said that the big issue that day was he got caught in possession a couple of times because he thought he had more time. If you actually look at his numbers, his numbers actually weren't bad at all. Absolutely. He was marginally better against Wofford, still again a couple of things, but that comes with playing in the premium. You mean marginally better statistically? I just think himself. And statistically as well, but even himself in the game. In watching the game, he was far better in the home game. Yes, statistically, Charlie, with his passing. So what you're saying is you look at the stats and he was slightly better across the two games. You look at the games, he was a lot better. And then that was why it's a real shame. Because I think either just, and he will, he's here for the long term. It's just frustrating because you want them to really hit the ground. And it is that I think they, the new players, Gibril's the same. You don't get the time in this league. In fact, you don't get the time in this country because he found out you don't get it against Lincoln. But he'd done OK, shouldn't he? But he settled into that game really well and showed that he's going to do stuff as and when needed. So it's going to be fascinating to look at how much game time some of these players get. You've managed to go whatever it is five minutes into this. Now you mentioned Keen, who's... Well, mentioned Moise, you know what I mean? My message should be called Ikeen. There's Keen and Ikeen. Keen and Ikeen. The potential he's got to do different things. And I think in a Wobie and we've got Richardlison, DCL, whatever you think is going to get a lot of minutes and so on. We don't have to throw Keen in and say, there you go, go do the hard yards away from O in your first five games. We can edge him into it. I didn't follow it well enough at the time. But I'd be curious to know, Stato's will know, I suppose, is how easily or not we're Watford under Silver able to bring Richardlison into the team. Well, he was just dumped in and say, laying on the job or whether it was... He was in first, then he scored. I was going to say he scored. Well, he had the ground run for Watford, didn't he? He had five goals. Well, when Marko left the other score, then he'd come back to Everton and his first game back under Marko. So all in all... What we've talked about of the business matters stuff, I think, is that Brans is in his crust operating to a plan with some discipline. You and I were talking offline before about Zahar and there are people out there that think that was just paper talk and so on, but it was and it was absolutely real. But Brans won't pay more than him and his team, which I guess includes Silver and presumably involves the board members as well. We think this guy is worth this if we get him for less than that. Fantastic. If we have to pay more, it's but my pay grade. Somebody else has to decide because as a sporting director, I don't want to pay more than that. But maybe the board or the owner or whatever think, well, we want him. And so it's interesting. And Simon wasn't it? Yeah, absolutely. And you know, and Bashir, he's got that in the back of his head all the time. I want that, you know, that real moment to show you here. But you make an interesting point about the outgoing players. The incoming players, there wasn't a huge amount of competition for them either. And I think going back to our podcast, I'll keep mentioning it. When we finished, what you do is the way that you do it. I think we did, and Brans in particular, and the team he puts around him, did a really good job on Keane with the stakeholder management through his agents and those sorts of things. And how he followed through with that thing but his mum and we'll look at the old boy and all this sort of stuff is, you know, I'm not a great fan necessarily of the people's club being what we want to be like. If it's the people's club that actually wins things, then we won't be caring. But if people's club means we're more interested in charity and being liked than winning things, then it's wrong. But what we did in and around landing that player shows a really good process. And the other thing I like about what they do, and I think players like even Delph, I think has mentioned this and another goodbye, is they almost hit the street running. They almost sit down with a player and say, right, if you're going to join us, this is why we want you. This is how we see you playing. This is where you need to improve. Now that's got to impress any player. But when it's a, you know, late 20s full international who's got a few Premier League medals in his back pocket and he's still getting told that. You go, right, okay, this is cool. I get it, you know. And then there's no Lukaku type thing, you know, I thought we'd spend lots of money. Now we've told you exactly what we're doing in the UK. So on that basis, Brans is doing a good job. I think most... We pay him a lot of money. Is he doing the job we pay him for? Or is he doing more than the job? No, he's doing the job we pay him for. Well, that's it. I mean, that's all you can ask for. The cool thing about sporting director is that essentially they are the old manager of the club in terms of that, of course, he gets agreement with Marco about what kind of players they want, but should Marco fall below what he expects, he'll be replaced with someone who plays the same way as Marco that can get the best out of these players. And you're not left with having to change your manager all the time. And then when you take over from me, because I've failed, I'm going to go, those players, that bad port, I don't want any of them. No, no, that's not how it works. We play a different way. We play a different way. So you're going to need 15 new players for you can get the most out of me. Whereas if I play a same way and you play the exact same way and you replace me, you might come in and go, right, let's tinker with this, I need one, because it adds everything to you for me. And that runs through. That's what clubs do around Europe. It's why it works. Yeah, I was preaching to somebody the other day that the best team isn't the 11 best players. And so part of what they're trying to do there, and I think it's loadable and it's right, is that they're not just picking technical skills and things, they're picking personalities. Of course, yeah. They've recognised, like a leadership, perhaps on the field, in the dressing room, whatever. And it's perhaps a bit naughty for people to say, that's why we bought Delf. We actually probably bought him because he only ever touched the ball twice and the second ball is passing it to somebody else. He's a good footballer. He's got a good head. He can cover, he watches what, you know. So he's a damn good footballer. And he brings those temperamental things about leadership. And no one's going to challenge that. I've been there, I've had one stuff. And then bring out some of the personalities and some of the other players, but Keane needs to be, Ikeane, Keane needs to be that sparkle who can do something different without being a baller teller who thinks it's all about him. He's still going to have the work ethic the team ethic. I think he has. I think he has as well because he wouldn't be here otherwise. So when they're doing their little checklist of who do we want, clearly they're going to have things on there. Can he head a ball? Can he pass it and so on? But temperament is quite important. And therefore what we're trying to build from a squad is our best team. Which may or not be the 11 so-called best players. No, no. It's a new complementary. But I thought he'd done well. Obviously Bellassie went out the door as well. He was the only sonny. Well, playing with my career. I know, but listen, it is what it is. I don't really want to get involved with him even. He's gone. It's about getting those players out of the door, getting those wages off the Bellassie. Williams left the club, Jack left the club. So he did slash quite a lot of the wage bill as well in terms of players who weren't contributing. Obviously, you mentioned before, Oomanias. Oomanias is one of those players I look at and think he may be needed at some stage until he goes. I don't think he's going to be considered as part of the first team, but he's coming before and helped us out. So I look at, but someone like Cucamarty, I don't see any value in whatsoever, but the lad's got a contract, so you'd have to. You'd have to. But so overall, I think the overall picture is reduce the wage bill with players who weren't contributing. Yeah, again, the podcast-y stuff, you know, because there's loads of anorex in this world. Yeah, that's good. Who can do all the numbers, and I do that as well. And I think I say it on the podcast and Paul didn't disagree, so we're in the right ballpark. If those 40-ish transactions that we've done, which are sales and loans and some solution players and all that, then you'd have to be a true anorex, which sadly, unfortunately, I'm not. How many of them were not here last season? But of all those 40 players were on the payroll somewhere, slapping around in Finchfarm. Are they knowing they're the first team or in an account or whatever? They'd probably cost us £30-odd million in wages. Tams o Romero's? Yeah, an example. So we don't know how much of what we should be paying them where they are paying, but we do know we're not spending the 30-odd million. So 40 transactions is a huge sort of transaction. Oh, so this is, and as we move forward, my sales plans and Marco Silva has said this, you want to get to a situation quickly, where we get to the summon and go, we actually only want two players. Well, that's where we got to when you said it was in May time, if you say six or seven, I think I said less, maybe five. So, you know, for inbound players saying we were limited, well, for me, we got more than I thought we needed and that gives some selection challenges now to the manager, which is good. And it also takes the level of the squad up. Moving away from that on to, we had the stadium, the public consultation, it seemed to go well. Yeah, I believe so. The public saying it record number of respondents and things like that. So what do we expect to happen next from that? Well, the next thing will be the outcome of the consultation process, which I think is going to happen a couple of weeks now since it finished, hasn't it? So I would expect that in this month, in the next month, three or four weeks, I guess. I mean, I've not asked the club recently, but as soon as it finished, I think the headline would have been those results would be shared with everyone within a couple of months. Okay, thank you. I think one of the things I said in the podcast was the club above was delivered on their promises of, you know, fan consultations, St. Louis, first public consultation, second public consultation, blah, blah, you know, feedback of both and then the planning application. And so they give themselves more time to... So when they say within a couple of months, I think they know that, you know, they might have sensitivity around timing for whatever reason, but they'll come out. So that would suggest before the end of October, wouldn't it? My own view would be early to mid-October time. And then they'll, after that, it's a planning application. It's a planning application. I don't know whether we spoke on camera briefly, but what did you make of the drawings and everything, you know, the designs, were you wild by it? Were you in a bit? Well, it was really funny because were you on holiday? Or did you... I was away when... Tytanic, did you go the time? No, Perth went the time. I was away. Yeah, because they did a little, a little bit, I'd say, day. Mo, bless him, sorted that out. And we got a sneak preview beforehand, so we saw the fly by you, sort of AR type stuff. But it was far more impressive when Dan Mises, the guy standing on stage, talking it through and then bang, he comes up on the stage, on the screen. And it was interesting because, of course, there's some leaked pictures in there. The one where they're better not, and then looking across the dark and stuff. But the real images were so much better than the leaky type stuff, which were clearly early renderings or something. But I think it was absolutely tremendous. I thought, I mean, it was quite amusing that keen Evertonians waiting for the website to fire up at seven o'clock or whatever it was, and see stuff throughout the world probably saw it before the people in the Titanic. Because they were running a little bit behind. I think it was about ten past quarter past seven before we saw it. So Twitter's already said, oh my God, it's wonderful. But yet, it's what we do well, that presentational thing. There's some criticism out there about whether we could have done more. A bit like the transfer window. You can always be spending money You can always do more. But I think it touched the spot for the room. I think there's about six, seven, eight hundred people or something there. There's a big chunk of media, but they'd been dealt with in the afternoon. So it was purely, let's call it a fan event in the evening. And it was almost a perfect stepping stone towards submitting the planning application. Because less people forget the whole of this process is driven towards achieving the objective, which is a successful planning application. And as I'm often fond of saying in my professional life is, yes, you can build it is a place called start. You could argue, we haven't started yet. This is all a preamble. This is all a foreplay. And then bang, the gun's going to go off. When we see in the media, like perhaps this morning or yesterday about the new terminus, when we see that as Evan are going to get this stadium on the banks of the Royal Blue Mercy, at Bramleymore, that's a place called start. And I rather hope that the club then will become far more bullish, stroke aggressive, stroke demanding of driving the project forward in a manner that results in this beautiful, and it is, isn't it? Oh, it's fantastic. This beautiful stadium on the banks of the Royal Blue Mercy. The third one we built in the stadium in the city, in the senior club in the city. All that crap, because it's not crap, it's true. And they'll struggle to make it. Well, you should have all that crap. That's a colloquialism. It's not negative. But yeah, and then really do it. And I think I've said publicly again, around that stuff happening around the time we're trying to attract players, can't have done any harm. Imagine what it's going to be like when there's a spade in the ground, and then when it's being built and then when it's about to open, you want to be the manager, don't you, for that first game. Oh, you want to be. You want to be the centre forward, those iconic positions and stuff like that. And in a quine players, particularly like King, who've also a woby, they've signed five-year contracts in theory they're all going to be here in that first game. Yeah, but that's the dream. And they're not, it's because we've got better players. Yeah, well, that's the dream, isn't it? And I think the thing that I took from it is that, you know, obviously far out of my series, it's driven to making this club have this stadium and to really have a good go at the top, the top players. Is it going to get the capacity wrong? Yeah, that's the, I mean, that was going to be my next point very quickly. It was going to be, they said 52, they kind of stuck to 52, the stuff I filled in, the box I put, it's the wrong capacity. I'm sorry it needed to be more, but you know, it is what it is. I'm hoping, although I don't think it's going to happen, but I'm hoping it's a bit of a spare situation where you should submit for 52 and then go, actually, you know what, we're actually going to have 55 and we'll leave the, because spare's we know putting for 56 and then when it was approved, said actually we're having 62 for the American football, but 60 for the Premier League. Well, they're going for 62 now, probably you've got that. Yeah. They're having a tweak. That's going to be tweaked to do it, but have we seen, I mean, you've sent me something about Galatasaray. It's funny, isn't it? Because we're following the same kind of thing. Yeah. Well, we had a semi-tungan cheek conversation, didn't we, which from my perspective wasn't totally tongue in cheek because I'd spoken to more members about it. Yeah. And they're just saying, if you're not ready people, it's fundamentally put the seats closer together and a couple of centimetres you save all the way along. When it extrapolates up, you can end up with a capacity that's two or 3,000 more. Yeah. And I have asked direct questions of the people in and around the project. Once the physical structure is built, we know in theory it can be 62. It can, yeah. And they've always said that through rail seats. I think you and I have talked, well, if it's just through rail seats, it's never going to be 62. It won't get higher than 57-ish or something just through rail seats. Just through rail seats, yeah. But how many real seats could you squeeze into the stadium without changing the structure? We had another 3,000 just off the top of our head. And so 3,000, that gets you to that 55 thing. 55. And then with the rail seat, the 70 would talk. The 670 would talk. It takes you above 60 anyway. What we do know now is roughly the planning assumption, I think, if you're talking about rail seats, that it's not at the most aggressive ratio of seats into standing. And it's not at the lowest either. So it's not one. It's not so it's in between. One and a half. So 5,000 rail seats, I say only, would only add two and a half thousand to the capacity. So the 62 just seems, if the starting seated capacity is 52, even 55, 62 is never likely to cut the mustard. But the real thing, as everyone will have seen, and it's probably still on the website, and then with the VR and all that stuff, is that south stand is just going to be awesome. Oh, it's fantastic. And I think that. And everything's tighter and closer than Spurs. And I wasn't particularly, I wasn't particularly overwhelmed by Spurs Ground. It's new. But that's sort of about it. But the real thing from a capacity point of view is where it leads us to from ticket pricing, revenues and so on. And if we are to compete, we either have to have a bigger stadium and higher ticket prices or higher ticket prices or both. And at the moment, I just fear that the higher ticket prices might have to fill the gap because the stadium's too small. But I mean, we had a shareholders exec meeting last night. And, you know, we had a shareholder and, you know, one of the executive committee members said, he doesn't know anybody who thinks 52 is enough. And yet the club talks about there's no real demand for more. So I think we just have to live with the fact that what I said in our exact meeting was the club aren't daft. The people who are making decisions are not daft. Some of them might be more passionate about a big number like Bill than others. But let's not necessarily queer the pitch and just assume that they don't know what they're doing because they do. And you keep, whenever we chat about, unless you always refer to Spurs, yeah? You're not going to get anybody at the football club and say, oh, Baz, you're right. We're only saying 52. So we can get planning agreed. And then we're going to go... Even if that's the case, they're not going to say it. And, you know, my view is the day it opens, the one-to-one ratio thing, whether it's standing seat or whatever, I think it'll be at least 55. And I've always said that. I'll stand by it. Fuck a fool if it doesn't happen. I still hope that there's wiggle room to make it bigger. And I still hope, like you, that the rail seat and the stand and we're talking four years away or whatever, 23 or four years away, that that'll have changed anyway. The ratio will have changed anyway. So it'll make it a little bit bigger. I think 55,000 seats and then, if you could, fit some bobs of standing here. And just bounce it up a little bit, I think, would be okay. I think we'll get quite close to 60. Yeah. And that, you know what? Maybe we'll have to see an increase in ticker price, of course, anyone who thinks we... Well, that'll happen naturally anyway. Of course, it's got to... And hopefully the corporate stuff will be a bit of a demand just where it is. And then hopefully everything goes hand-in-hand. Well, I know, you might have seen it. I don't know if you have, but the club have completely refurbished all the... All the land. All the... You know, the loungers and stuff. And they're all testing. That's a pre-case. Yeah, but they're testing concepts out and stuff like that. But even before they refurbished them all, they were sold out. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, this is just a taste there for... So if they're sold out, then... They'll be more expensive. When they're far better, in a far better location, with better sight like all that rubbish. Yeah. Because if you're in the captain's table or, you know, the people's club and you're still sitting in a park end. Yeah? Yeah. You've still got the best view in the stadium from an obstruction that just is an obstruction without things in the way. But you're beyond the goal and perhaps you really want to be at the side. Yeah? And then if you're in the main stand, then you've still got to go and sit in this rickety old 1970s thing. And of course there's no hospitality that's put tall in the Bullens and there's none in the Gladys Street. So all those faces should have some degree of premium seating in the... Perhaps not the south stand because that's going to be the big home end. But the other three sides. The other three sides. And, you know, we saw what happened in Germany when we were there. You were talking about what happens when you were in the States. Yeah. You know, where you've got, what did you call it? Hospitality light. Yeah. You know, and that's what they had at the stadium I liked somewhere like 10 plus years ago. Yeah. You paid a modest amount of money extra and you just... It's not even a lounge. It's just a cordoned off area almost. I know it was cordoned off in the concourse but you got food and you got babies at your seats. So that inevitable which all goes under an umbrella called theatre pricing Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, means there'll be lots of tears and the only challenge in the question for the football club which I'm sure they'll answer in the fullness of time is the affordable ticket prices that they rightly quote how big is that going to be? What's it going to be? You know, and therefore we can continue to have kids come in and grow up and bring in the future generations along with them. So that's the team and that's the stadium. Yeah. Just briefly, what are the... What's the next challenge, I suppose, for evident on a business scale in terms of attracting better, better advertising, I suppose, better sponsors or better business partners because that's surely what we have to do. Our corporate stuff has to keep with an open trajectory because we're seeing United and now they're in a different league in terms of Champions League and everything but seeing Liverpool with all sorts of new business partners it just keeps growing and growing and growing. You've seen mega-fun and sponsoring our mat-state content and do we expect to see it more than that? Yeah, of course. Of course, absolutely. I mean, if we were to go back a year or two, perhaps after Meshiri had a bit of a honeymoon period and then you step back and think I'm actually getting what I wanted. Then you might have initially split the business in half and said on this side I've got the playing side and I need to have a leader who sorts that out, who's wholly accountable, sits on the board and all that goes on. All the things we said in the early days of business matters. That's Marcel Brandt. He's your chief exec of the playing side and we've changed the chief exec on the business side and that's Denise and at the moment this side is clearly making progress and so on but it's fuelled by this side so they have to work together and so whilst he can be self-sufficient to a degree because he can sell players, he can develop players through the academy and sell them, the true elite performances are going to come from buying players he can't fund himself. Yeah, of course. I mean it's great if you do it the way the other side have been able to do it with good fortune of every couple of years sell a player for a record amount and then invest that wisely. I mean I think I said on the podcast about how we'll comply with financial welfare playing things like that for all we know there's a marquee player we're going to sell sometime. For all we know and it's not fact based it's just an illustration if we've already got a soft arrangement sorted that says Richard Charleston is going to go to some Spanish club for £150 million next summer then clearly brands and his mates are going to be planning on the base that money is coming. Yeah, of course. And so you can do that occasionally but you will hit the buffers. Yeah. So that's the player trading income stream. Yeah. We've just spent whatever it was 10 minutes talking about the matchday income income stream. Yeah. The one that's seriously lagging no matter what percentage as people talk about about how much bigger it was than it was before and so on is commercial. Yeah. I mean I saw yesterday I think it's Wofford have just announced a new share deal I think. Nice. And I think it was Wofford. Yeah. Anyway it doesn't matter the principles are same. Mm-hmm. And it was like the Elston days because the announcement said record breaking deal. Yeah. I didn't say what it was just that it was record breaking well a penny more than last time was record breaking I think. Yeah, of course. So all commercial stuff I think they've done some decent work I think in adding the number of sponsors but commercial partners but as we've seen some of them were only for a year and they've come in and they've gone away again. They've gone away again. You know I've heard some rumours that there's some decency I tell you offline here. No I won't actually because I think the person who told me I wouldn't tell anyone so I won't tell you offline. No. But you know that will be a brand that people will recognise because part of the challenges people say is yeah but I've never heard of I don't know whatever it is Davanti tyres or something you know. I might have heard a megaphone and I've heard a USM but whether we're going to get those higher profile from the right market segment type commercial partners and there's a challenge there about yeah how do we do it and if it's possible have we got a bit like the football team of what the people in the team who are capable of doing it and you know someone challenged me on Twitter and I think I did a politically correct response that says it's an established commercial team and maybe what I'm really saying is it needs to be freshened up so maybe what we're really talking about is a hard hitting commercial director who sits at board level again is something we said on business matters a long time ago that you have those key responsibilities reporting into the chief exec and maybe that's what we need to do because we need a big sea change in that I'd go and like I said he'd go and watch inside but she'd opened and I hope people at Everton are watching it just to see how you can turn a club from being very much like ourselves and it's still hard to say because then they're never going to have the money to buy a munit but there's ways and means of bridging gaps that you have to do because you're always looking out to do better you're always having to examine everything and they bring matter the same back as an external consultant who literally this is a fella that obviously was managed them don't want them to buy a munit but manage them like a general manager and he's a pundit so he'll flag some of the players off and then he has to go in and work for Dortmund so it's a bit funny each sits there and says this needs to change and they've got Michael Zoch who's the sporting director and they've got a couple of other people there as well and just looking at every option around the football side but then they've got that with the commercial side now they'll develop things and make things better they've done tremendously well in fact I guess your video of the trip to Dortmund, the Yellow Wall that's all if you're not seeing any people you should go and look at it because some of the stuff we did with Sebastian the SLO and stuff like that shows that they've done it grass roots upwards in supporting terms which they've got the fan base on side their atmosphere was appalling so the original guys and the glad to street lads they were Dortmund were 10-ish plus years ago from a fan activism in a positive sense of atmosphere and the club should embrace some of that go over there and have a look we reached out and made that offer particularly on the SLO side about how do your liais do the supporters liais on bits how do you in their case try and control the mad people who are the 200 ultras but who drive the whole of that wall and we end up with 12, 13, 14, 15,000 people sat in our south stand going this isn't very good is it then we've missed a big trick so we need to start the long journey and I'll come back to Bramleymore but the long journey into Bramleymore that results in not just as it undoubtedly should be the most iconic stadium and the most iconic location anywhere in this country bar none but also the most amazing atmosphere as well bar none and in some respects with the most amazing commercial team well I'm going to say because in some respects we'll come back to that but in some respects if we achieve this amazing stadium delivered by a passionate architect and a committed board who make sure it really does happen and we have the most awesome atmosphere we replicate the good moments we've had in the last six, nine months a good of some part every single game down at Bramleymore then that's where the TV people will want to go that's where you get recognition that's where you get you're on the TV more whoever's on your shirt gets seen more often and so on because your question was how do we uplift our commercial performance because clearly it needs to be a hell of a lot better now I think a lot of the commercial team whether it's from the board downwards I don't actually know might think well you know until we get the stadium or in other words I'll say it there's a difference between reasons and excuses and we all have again if you listen to the podcast we need to be bolder and more braver and aggressive around driving the brand value and increasing it and all that good stuff now when that gun goes off that says planning has been approved it's at that moment we need to do the things that some people think we should already be doing which is worldwide exposure of this brand because the vision the commercial vision the commercial director or the team members the sales guy whatever you want to call them can do is this is what you're buying into you're buying into the most iconic stadium in this country playing in the most watched league at the most atmospheric stadium the most passion this, that and the other and football without fans is nothing and if you've got fans packed in close together and the atmosphere is astonishing then TV will buy it and straight away your shirt becomes 20% more value the interest the advertising around the stadium becomes more valuable all that value then ends up in brands' budget and we get better players and I don't know you tell me a player who you know Farhan Mashiri clinched him by anebiton football club you know was a belief that it could be made into this you know re-emerged giant his first time he sat in that seat which is his for a long time yet and watched a game he was blown away by the atmosphere in the grand old lady where we think the atmosphere often isn't very good but he immediately compared it to the Emirates and thought this is what it's about now it's going to be a factor of God knows what above that of bramley moor sell that vision and that's what we need in commercial guys people who can sell the vision with passion and hard knows commercial reality as well it all comes at a price you have to pay for it and if you then start to your point of view the worst case scenario if you're doing these sort of things is you wait till the last day and then someone with a big wallet money comes along and says I want my name on the front of your shirt cos you've done it now and so you've got to have that balance and actually no mate sorry cos this guy's been with us for the last 5 years he's prepared to pay 90% of that so no you can't be a cum leit Charlie or whatever the phrase is you can't have a cum leit Charlie yeah whatever John so you don't wait till the thing's almost on the horizon before you sell it no of course and therefore part of your sell come tell you what Baz you buy this now and it costs you 10 million a year you buy it next year it's going to cost you 12 you buy it the year after it's going to cost you 15 you buy it the year after it's going to cost you 20 cos that's where we're going to start tumbling along if and when a we win things and b we're regularly in Europe so it's the virtual circle it's what we talk about in business math but you've got to kick start it even a nuclear power station needs a bloody spark to get it going and once it's going it goes forever and that's what we can do build momentum but I just don't know maybe it's me cos we're cautious and softly softly we're on the stadium side and we've screwed up so many times in the past we're making sure we don't screw up which is why I'm giving personally I think the club have done everything they said they were going to do I think they're doing a good job but the proof of the pudding will all have hindsight if they don't get the planning approval and they know that so they've got to have everything lined up to achieve the planning which I think they will if they do we're at a place called start and then we should we have to see a step up and that step up is in target setting performance, management, review all the things brands is doing on the playing side will get really harsh so we might actually see quite a turnover in the established middle and potentially even I suppose seeing a management team at the football club when we step up play at a different level and some just like football some will get better because of it and others will go I can't do it and they'll go from work for somebody else happy days it's exciting there you go sounds good the star points will let hope so big thanks to John you can check out John on his Everton Business Matters podcast alongside the Esk and Tom Martin who is the Tom Martin he does Tom Martin on Twitter he has the unenviable task of sitting in between me he's the juggler referee wherever you want to call it but he has his own points as well he's a good guy make sure you check it out big thanks for watching make sure you give this video a thumbs up subscribe if you haven't and if you want more videos get over and join us on Patreon see you later